I'm Worried About Hazbin Hotel
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2023
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"Treating every mistake like Vivian personally killed your dog"
Is such ass raw line
*Viv personaly harassed people to near suicide
@@FoxGameCZexcuse me what
@@CallOfTheDragon885 She did and she wanted Scott to get doxxed just like Ssniperwolf.
@@Featheryfaith7 I know Viv was upset about Scott’s donations but that shouldn’t have been the right response. I don’t think Viv’s a bad person she’s not John K but she definitely isn’t perfect either.
@@FoxGameCZ Uh huh... gonna need some actual proof on that
Popular indie projects trying not to have an insane and toxic fandom challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
Too many children. They see an edgy adult cartoon and think liking it makes them cool and different and they make it their identity
@@theroyaljules39 I once heard a story about a boy in elementary school who was obsessed with Angel Dust. He was acting like him, talking like him, and even wanted the other students and the teachers to call him Angel Dust.
@@DontReadMyProfilePicture.104I read your name….
@@valentinkambushev4968wtf 😭
I'll never understand people who hate something just because it's popular.
"They'd rather hate on it than go love something else."
That's a mood.
I mean yeah, if you are emotionally invested in something you dont tend to just abandon that investment.
It's ok to leave something you are invested in even if it has been for a long time. I stopped playing any of the later Halo games after 4 came out. In this case I wouldn't even say the later halo games were even objectively bad. 4, 5 and 6 were objectively pretty good games in their own right. I just personally didn't like them and preferred the original bungie games. There is never going to be another Halo 3 and I accept that.
The Arbiter is gonna be in Hazbin Hotel and will probably make out with Angel Dust at some point, so at least we have that to look forward to.
@@GusOfTheDorks
Its so true though, we have a lot of indie shows on here im sure they could just pick something else instead of bitching. Theres murder drones, helluva boss (which takes place in the same universe), the amazing digital circus just released, metarunners (finished i think tho-) and definetly some more i havent named
"That's a mood, Gabriella"
It's like the Velma show. Rather than bring light to other shows that need it (like Scavengers Reign, Pantheon, etc.), people would just rather consume more and hate-watch. I guess that's the attitude that we need to start changing, but I guess it's impossible to argue with terminally online people nowadays.
OH, one thing I've heard recently: you shouldn't feel bad for enjoying Hazbin or Helluva Boss because of the "fanbase". You can enjoy something without having to partake in the fandom or online space, just enjoy it! You're allowed to enjoy shows/movies/books/creators without being in the fandom.
This statement helped me feel better as someone who doesn't partake in online soaces that much, so someone may need to hear it. Just have fun :)
Definitely agree! Just because some people in a fandom are toxic shouldn't impede someone from enjoying artwork/media. It's pretty much the equivalent of religious freedom. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So true, I really don't like when ppl say the fandom "ruined" something for them, cause, like, really?? The only ppl I Can understand feeling this way would be the actual creators since it's actually Their audience and it can be overwhelming
This exactly.
i didnt even know the fandom was bad😭 i partake in the fandom a bit but just like for fanfics
Michael Kovach not getting his big break with hazbin hotel is criminal, he absolutely deserves to be a bigger name actor instead of the king of indie projects.
Agreed. Unfortunately he had to be replaced because he’s not a part of some union, SAG i think. And as long as he’s not part of it I think he’ll always be replaced in major projects
It was because of dramas.
Maybe he'll get another chance with Lackadaisy season 1
Its a blessing in disguise, Viv got to have a talented singer with an actual brooklyn accent voice Angel Dust, and Micheal could voice other successful pilots without worrying about infringing a contract.
@@Huppa3333
Surely he was a bit saddened (and maybe even felt betrayed), but I’m sure Michael has come to terms with what happened and is willing to move on with his career. He still is friends with people he met through Hazbin, after all.
Im scared of the fandom
Fear the fandom
Aren't we all
same. But like not all of the fandom, but SOME of the fandom can be odd.
Same
Every fandom has that toxic part that it is better to just avoid.
But if that toxic part gets bigger then the healthy on *looks around him* then we have a problem.
As a fan since the pilot for both shows were released, I am super excited for both shows to progress and show the story that Vivienne wants to display. I don’t want the fandom to ruin these shows. I love these shows. I’d hate to see them fall because some “creepzos” kept opening their mouths
Same! I just joined the fandom after finding out about the Hazbin Hotel pilot and now I don't really care how long it takes for Hazbin Hotel to come out (about a month and I'm so fxcking excited!!). I watched Helluva Boss and it was amazing, I wanna see more of the humor and artstyle that I grew to love despite what people say, I love the artstyle, the humor, the uniqueness of both the series.
I feel like this happens in a lotta fandoms. People are just too obsessive and want everything to go their way or it's just the simple "it's bad cuz popular".
People work hard on it to make it and it's not your creation, it's their art and they choose to show it to the world.
You can criticize it for it's flaws but don't just look for random reasons to attack, just remember that it isn't your work and the creator chooses what to do with it.
I feel this is more and more accurate as the show approaches it's release as people are just NOW getting all bent out of shape about Alastor being a biracial dead guy IN HELL that uses VOODOO which is BLACK MAGIC. And these same idiots are the ones trampling over the actual biracial people who actually practice said religions and I'm so torn about it rn. Cause where were these ass hats when Princess and the Frog was being released???? Why now??? Why to Viv??? A long with them dragging up shit from 7-12 years ago claiming she's a Notsee
Honestly, at this point, drawing R34 art is one of the most innocent fandom activities.
Average nsfw artist W
r34 art is fine imo as long as it doesnt have children or animals in it and its consensual. just like irl seggs
Grim...
@@theketaminekid1241the one from billy and Mandy tho...
Well you know a fandom is royally f_cked when literal p0rn is considered tame compared to whatever else is happening
Shout out to all the normal people that have healthy relationships with the media they consume, and despite having their own headcanon are completely capable of separating their own imagination from the work of an author and love/respect it anyway
I was in a part of watching the show or phantom I picked it up once to see what the hype was about and then dropped it
Baffles me this even needs to be said. Some people really need to take a break from the internet and realize the world is full of actual real issues they should be complaining about.
I like to think that we are the majority and just siilent, while the crazy ones is just a vocal minority
@@satsujin4027Oh they certainly are the minority. But they are VERY VERY LOUD
I was surprised to learn how many people hated the Steven Bombs. I was disappointed that it was taking so long between batches of episodes, but I just kind of got over it? I did other things, and when a new batch got announced it was always a pleasant surprise. I can't imagine foaming at the mouth for months on end about it.
I would honestly worship anyone who could show me a non-toxic fandom
True once a series/fandom gets very big, it's always getting visible wether it's shippers or people who make a waifu competition (One Piece💀)
There’s so few if any out there
the fandom that is blind to its own toxicity be like:
There's the fandom for Mr.Rogers. Nobody don't wanna mess with that guy without getting "kicked out of the neighborhood"
Hollow Knight fans are pretty chill, besides slowly descending into shitpost insanity as they wait for the sequel
The thing I'm also scared of is the industry wide problem that's only been getting worse and worse since the 2000s, Studio Meddling. Spindle Horse will want to do their thing, but the ones that are paying the bills may say "Yeah, that's good, but we want this. We know it's you're show, but we keep the lights on, so we want this to be this, and that character to behave differently, oh and that side story, scrap it for this, because WE feel it's better".
The Studio itself could do more harm than anyone, and with members of the fandom waiting to pounce, it will just me like adding petroleum to an already burning oil fire that started when a lithium battery made contact with it just as the battery ruptured and exploded
This!! You put it perfectly! My main concern isn't that it's not going to be the show I dreamed of from the pilot/Addicted but that the show Spindlehorse/ Vivziepop actually wanted to make is going to be buried under studio demands and meddling.
I love Hellva Boss. Its my comfort show and has brought me alot of good moments. If Hazbin Hotel is even half as good I'll be happy. Yes, Helluva Boss isn't perfect you can tell there's a lot of love and creativity that has been put into it and that's all I really want for Hazbin.
Viv did say that A24 did a good job with the show
A lot of movies and TV shows were ruined that way
@@MASTEROFEVIL Many more weren't.
That's been a problem in art since sponsorship was invented. Plenty of renowned artists had to bow to their sponsors, usually to buy the freedom to finish their pet projects.
I honestly never had high expectations of both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, I just simply sit back, relax and wait for the episodes release and see what Vivziepop has to offer which so far has been more good than bad.
Me too
Same
Hear hear!
While I initially had higher expectations for both shows, I’ve since realized how hard it is to make this stuff and now take this approach.
The only expectation I have with the show(s) is that I'll have fun watching them, and well... Helluva Boss hasn't let me down so far! Yes, even the episodes that the fandom seem to think are bad. Despite the fact that Moxxie's teenage girl persona in Unhappy Campers made me cringe _so hard,_ but I'm pretty sure that was the reaction they were going for.
What’s sad is that even if HH does meet the fandom’s expectations (especially regarding the ships), people will just complain that it’s “fan-service”
It is impossible to make everybody happy, especially on the internet. Creators should make what they enjoy making and are good at and to hell with the comments and criticisms(except for the people that point out spelling mistakes in story chapter posts on reddit, that is free editting, let them be pedantic)
Edit: fixed some spelling mistakes
Oh yeah, it happens in the gastronomy where i work.
The roast beef is always too raw or too cooked even if i cook it so perectly that the ones that invented it would bow at my feet.
People are dumb.
@@michelecastellotti9172 what?
@@BurningOrchid9888 what what?
People are going to bitch no matter what.
I've learned, no one is immune to criticism. You can try to be a perfect angel and still people who are bitter find reasons to criticize, bash or straight up hate for petty reasons. What Vivienne is making is great, Helluva Boss and her animations are proof of that to me. I want to see Hazbin and enjoy it. I wish people would stop putting people on a pedestal! We're all humans just trying to make it. I don't know why people always expect to be shocked and blown away like they don't get enough serotinin or dopamine? Did you know things can just be enjoyable?
We are the lazy generation as the band the F-Ups would put it
@jackthorton10 every generation complains about another generation being "lazy". It's a weak criticism.
@@Artemissia I understand, I'm just saying some people may take us as lazy and ignorant and not willing to accept what we get, like with this show in particular I think some people should just enjoy what they want to enjoy.
I think terminally online persons tend to be more exposed to a cycle of anger addiction. We often gravitate towards echo chambers, but because it's the internet, you're also exposed to the "other" tribe as well.
Drama also sells. Creators that make content are no different than any other media form. Making the viewer mad/emotional is a key component of getting attention, because our brains are primed to respond to "danger" and we get addicted to rage.
Being online a lot isn't the issue, it's that you're exposed to all the different tribes of thought that might clash with your own and because humans are still stuck in us vs them mentality in our evolution, it's instinct to find your "tribe" and hate the others. Especially because most people aren't taught good communication skills or often even really want to communicate, they want to express their emotional turmoil and many don't have or know of a healthy way to do that.
Kpop fandom is a great example of this, coupled with it being literally engineered to be addictive, way too personal and obsessive, but it's a great example of extreme tribalistic tendencies and has an online presence that it thrives on, so much so that people online can actually change the fate/actions by kpop groups. Other fandoms and celebs are not under that level of influential scrutiny, nor do most have their presence only in the online sphere.
@vixxcelacea2778 I guess I'm just one of those people with a rare personality type that prefers peace, love, respect and acceptance. No one is incapable of these things. I think some people just aren't as self aware and we need to teach these things. Behavior is learned and humans are not born to be assholes. It's easier to get mad and have others be mad with you because they feel alot of hurt in life and choose to express that frustration the easy way, online. It takes more effort to self reflect and ask ourselves, why do I put so much energy into this?
A whole video of just, "please fandom don't do the crud fandoms usually do." I hope this video is somewhat effective, because even though I'm excited for Hazbin hotel, I'm also very scared.
Omg i love ur videos
As a person without twitter its fascinating to see this fandom jump between obsession, anger and hornyness
Same here man
It's one reason why I'm never getting Xitter: angry online debates. Well, that and the obvious thing, of course...
One of the biggest reasons why not everyone deserves a platform and how it shouldn't be normalized to post every damn thought or opinion.
I was a bit confused, I've known that people give Hazbin shit, but I never realized it was showbreaking levels of bad.
Then I realized this was all on twitter and suddenly it all made sense. It's amazing how much drama one can avoid by not having a twitter. 😂
I don't have Twitter mainly 'cause of privacy reasons. I don't trust it.
I am simply amazed at how a show that hasn't even aired yet has been able to generate some much drama over the years.
This happens a lot with video games that are still in production.
Sadly, I'm not. This kind of thing happens way too many times...
true, anything that stays in long term development tends to get put in one of two camps until near its launch date which is when a shift for better or worse could happen in my opinion:
camp 1- people get tired of waiting and the hype mostly dies down and depending on how well the marketing upon nearing launch and the actual end product is it can turn into a sink or swim scenario for the production ( I suppose an example of a sink for this is Duke Nukem Forever and for a swim the Finale to Samurai Jack in my own personal opinion).
camp 2- Hype slowly builds up to unreasonable expectations and the fandom gets to a point where no matter what comes out the majority will hate it as it didn't live up to the hype and there will be a small group that will like it regardless.@@LikaLaruku
@@maximus13161 you wanna hear my hazbin hotel ocs?
@@voxthetvdemon1030 sure I guess?
I agree with you on the “waiting too long” problem.
I feel like I’m initially “disappointed” with every new Helluva Boss episode because I’ve had too much time in between episodes to raise my expectations. (I usually have to watch Helluva Boss episodes twice to remove this bias, and I usually like them much more on the second viewing).
I might have a similar reaction to Hazbin Hotel. In my head I’ve been building it up as “my new favorite show,” but I’m totally willing to be patient with it if it doesn’t meet my unfair expectations.
It's really unfortunate that Viv gets all this unnecessary harassment (and she's unfortunately not alone in dealing with that)! 0_0
What's also damning is that this is the kind of thing that chases away a lot of other beginner and aspiring artists from posting online and networking (the latter being taught as a big deal for any artists that want to have a professional business around their art). So many people have dreams of being an artist and making artwork that people enjoy, only to be scared away from becoming an artist when they see how they're treated online and/or in the industry.
Or (like me) it encourages artists to become more closed off, and not network much out of fear of becoming famous.
This comment somehow read my mind. I want to give up on becoming artist and choose to work as a teacher or anything that has nothing to do with fame online. The same kind of job my parents do. Whatever happened to viv makes me want to give up on it. Maybe it won't be as beautiful as I expected it to be. Maybe I rather be an unknown loser than a popular figure online with flaws.
@@Anonymous-bl8df
And it also helps that people can still be artists, even if they don't have a career/notoriety and/or people to see their work (at least imo). Sometimes things are worth it to work towards a career in despite the set-backs and barriers, and sometimes things can be just a hobby for us to enjoy privately and that's okay too! ^^
People have had 3 years since the pilot to stew and basically write their own characters/story, using the pilot as fuel.
Some people are going to EXPLODE when their headcannons aren't in the show
Because people are little bitches who always complain for not getting what they wanted. Kinda like that creep turned hater from the last episode from Helluva Boss. Being a little bitch cuz you think what you want should be what the story should be. No, really. I can't wait to see people being little bitches about it. Will be fun to watch.
Genuinely don't understand, as a creative myself, why people can't just act normal. If they cant separate their fiction from reality they shouldn't be allowed to make headcannons...
@@sharaheartsixxyou should try telling the entirety of undertale fandom this.
@@sharaheartsixx i dont see think there's an issue with creating headcannons, the problem lies when the people making these headcannons get upset when its not canon within the show.
@@ghostinyourcloset That's my point. If certain people can't separate their headcannons (fiction) from the show (reality), they shouldn't be allowed to make them. I love Headcannons and creating things like AUs etc but they stop being fun when people get so entitled about shows they have literally no involvement in.
"Stop looking for the show you've built up in your head and try and love the show you're being given."
Wiser words were never spoken. Too many people these days are very "all or nothing" when it comes to what they like; it has to be completely perfect, *exactly* as they imagined it or it's worthless.
Just enjoy the show and if you really want to keep your headcanon, go write a friggin' fanfic as a release valve.
Does that mean i can write a story deprived of themes, symbolism and full of plot twist with no build up? I can give shitty conclusion to interesting plot line? OMG I DIDN'T KNOW😍😍😍
Not sayin Helluva or Hasbin is like this but it's what your comment sounds like.
@@pahradahdinanini Then you need to go back to grade school and learn basic reading comprehension.
"it has to be completely perfect, exactly as they imagined it or it's worthless." means there are people out there who look at the tiniest disagreement they have with the product and go on a rampage because it doesn't cater to literally every take they have.
Nowhere do I say any show, anywhere, should be free from all criticism. I'm saying that no show can perfectly cater to everyone's desires 100% of the time and the fans need to accept that sometimes a show is going to make choices that you may not agree with. That is no reason to start harassing the community or the creators.
Heck, I was a Zutara shipper back in the day and thought Kataang wasn't a very good ship; did I suddenly hate the show? Of course not, I accepted it and enjoyed the rest of the ride and still think it was one of the best animated shows of all time.
*That* is what I mean. Legit criticism is one thing, being mad because the creators didn't pander to your specific ship or interpretation of a character and then lashing out about it is childish at best, downright creepy at worst depending on how far you take it.
That might be because loving something or hating it is a very simple concept. Shades of gray and something else than extremes are more complicated. Why would you spend time on formulating something more complex when it isn't your livelihood on the line? It's very unfair, but such is life.
EXACTLY! Headcanons are those, headcanons, which you can put in fanfic as much as you want. Would it be nice to be canon? Yes, but if it's not canon, does that mean I should hate on the show? No, because that one thing might not be major enough to warrant a hatred for the entire series and probably has tons of good stuff that beats the con.
@@pahradahdinanini It is completely understandable to dislike and criticize a show but you should base said opinion and criticism on the actual show itself and not on how the show doesn't line up with some fantastical exceptations built up over several years after seeing the pilot.
My advice to fans: if you have headcanons... let them go right now. I dont care how much you love the idea, how attached to it you are, how much hope youve built on it... let it go. Drop it. This is Viv's show, not ours. Let it all go and enjoy what sje has cooked up for us. Fans make theor own hate... not the show. I've been doing this for 40 years and it's the same in every fandom.
RIP The only headcannon I ever made came true 😅😅
Fr though headcannons are HEADcannons
I personally like to make a really round about conspiracy theory style way that causes more problems than it solves to explain my headcannon and pretend like it's true just because it's really funny to me or just ignore what disproves my theory cuz it's funny. I obviously don't force my version on people though as it's something I made that's tailored exclusively for my personal humor
An example I want to give. It's not really a headcannon, but an impression people have of certain characters.
On reddit people are very insistent that alastor will be a villain and he will definitely betray charlie and the hotel, that his character will keep stale until the end of the series, that he has no morals and he's the worst etc.
I'm all for alastor not having a redemption, but saying he's not gonna show any different side (besides what we were shown) is very weird. Such writing is too obvious. Flat and simple.
All the characters are set up to show more of them on the series. Alastor has a lot to unpack, why does he hates dogs? What is his breaking point? Why does he have a strict moral code of not fighting the weak? Why is he willing to help in a cause (happy hotel) he doesn't believe? If he's so alone, why is rosie his friend?
A character willing to be evil while being complex is completely possible, it's gold. It's a multi-layered character. He's portrayed in a "baddass edgy villain" in fanon but when you look at the pilot he's direct and even silly - polite in his responses. Just like the video, people have to hold off their interpretation of the characters until we ACTUALLY see how they act in the show.
@@ju2645 The fans on reddit are the worst. Worse even than Twitter. I had to leave the groups on reddit. A significant number of the fans there are literally 13 years old. They have so little life experience they routinely misinterpret extremely obvious things and have absolutely no idea how relationships work among adults.
The Alastor being horrible is really weird. He's extremely complex. He's not really afraid of anyone. He's very clearly okay with where he is. But he has this moral code he has chosen to live by, very strictly. He crushes Sir Pentious without a hesitation or even difficulty. But he's friendly, extremely genteel to Charlie and gang. I honestly think he's taken a bit of a liking to Vaggie because she's so fiesty. Likely why he enjoys picking on her so much.
“Antici-“ ad break “-pation” that was brilliant 😂
I can only imagine how bad it's gonna be.
There are people mad that Charlie isn't with Alistor, despite not a SINGLE THING indicating they would EVER be interested in eachother like that in the offical releases.
Headcanons are super dangerous for fandoms.
I like Charlastor mostly bc I'm a sucker for the character dynamics that kind of pairing could bring. HOWEVER, people forget that headcanons aren't actual canon. It's just how people see a character in their own - well - head, and if someone else agrees, well done. (And frankly, we NEED more wlw and asexual reps in media.)
My favorite example of "headcanon ain't canon" is a widely accepted HC of Ardyn Izunia from FFXV being a tea person. At least, I think it was at the time, even his English VA agreed with this. Then comes Ardyn DLC and dude is spotted drinking canned coffee on a saving screen. That's the only food item, as far as I know, player sees him actually consuming as far as I know (holding a champaign glass in a movie is depatable in this argument, imo).
I was a huge fan of a character and I consumer everything Ardyn almost religiously. What did I do when anything of was revealed, even if it didn't match my headcanons? I just went "ouh", accepted the new info and moved on. Even changed my OC, who I made as Ardyn's SO, drastically and yoited her into modern day after Aera was revealed.
Headcanons endinging up not-canon isn't end of the world, bc fans will have vastly different views compared to creators. People are different, and frankly, only person who can say yes or no for something being correct about a character, is the creator. Hazbin Hotel fandom needs a big dose of this, imo, otherwise they will be HEAVILY dissappointed on the show.
esp since in the pilot she has a gf and Alistor is disgusted by romantic much less sexual anything.
Alastor is canonically Ace? And I wish people would keep that in mind!
@@victorlannister5606Right!? Right!?
We should just be grateful that we're even getting this show. Forget about the fact that the show will obviously NOT entertain your little headcanons. Forget about the flaws that it'll inevitably have because *every show has flaws* and should be critiqued accordingly. People, we're finally getting a full series of Hazbin after practically a DECADE of waiting, it may not be perfect, but that fact alone is good enough. No fandom is perfect, but we can at least have comfort in knowing that we're getting fed here. Despite all this, I still do hope that the wait was worth it and the series ends up being good.
Well said, we need to appreciate Viv and the episodes and what they give us instead of bullying what it didn't have, as said by the video and your comment
I wasn't paying attention to this show before, but I'm going to now, and people better be fucking nice about it. Nothing is worse than having someone spit in your face because you didn't make the story they wanted.
People shouldn't be happy because something just exist though. It needs to have at least decent writing ( I'm not talking about headcanons, those are different from criticism ). I'm not expecting it to be on Godfather's level. I simply want it to be *good.* Other series don't get away with this. Why are there exceptions? If it wants to use it as an excuse when they're indie, fine, but if it wants to be big and professional it should follow the rules. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
@@redpanda6497
The thing is, is that people are acting like this is a big budget production when it's not. This still counts very much as an indie project.
Plus critiques are only valid when the people giving them know what they are talking about. Too many people give uneducated critiques on things.
There is a difference between personal preference and a lacking in the ability to tell a proper story. A lot of people don't know the difference, and I hazard this fandom is full to the brim with people who DON'T understand this.
@@vvitch-mist20 I don't know where you're searching for criticism, but almost all the videos I've seen on UA-cam about this topic give us good reasons why they see things this way. I've found more anatic videos from people who likes literature and write as a hobby than people who nitpick and hate on it. There's always going to be a Pkrussl, but it's a bit silly to ignore Hezuneutral, Kolkocat, We are not alive or Just stop because of this.
I honestly don't give a crap how long the videos take to story board, animate, voice record etc.
I'm just genuinely happy to be even be able watch and enjoy such a masterpiece of everyones amazing talents brought together into their creations.
It only feels like its been a few years since I watched hazbin hotel anyways.
I've been to busy with trying to you know, life my life and cope with waking up every dam day, sometimes wishing I'd didn't wake up that particular morning on so many occasions that I have lost count frankly.
But hella of a boss has been fantastic so far, and sure I'll be a bit upset it ends, because everything has to end at some point, I still wouldn't ever think to send hate their way for a show or project ending, because thats just life and how it be and they don’t deserve any of the past, current negativity they are receiving, ever!
Instructions unclear, now all my expectaitions and all my failures in life have been projected on this one hellish fun show
We need this show now than ever needed it before. But sadly all we can do is hope that the fandom won't ruin it for everyone, Like it always has.
They have already ruined it.
fun fact: the word "fan" is short for "fanatic"
How can what other people do ruin a series?
How does that work?
If some fan x does something bad do you just associate with what they like and assume it is all bad?
@@47slogra It happens often, believe it or not. I’ve met plenty of people who are turned off by shows just by witnessing a few bad eggs in the fandom (ex; Voltron, Steven Universe, Star vs…). A bad fandom doesn’t ruin the quality of the show, but it does put a stain on its reputation.
@@toastysweaters5692 RWBY, KillaKIll, Hellaofboss, (cough cough)
It took me this year to not only watch the pilot HH but ALL HOB to see how good it is,with season two Latest episode I had to wait for.😅...............
So as a Steven Universe enjoyer who never once engaged with or was even aware of any fandom discourse around it until after it had finished airing, I'm convinced that this is mainly an issue for the terminally online. Also, having rewatched Steven Universe in a binge after it had finished, the show actually feels really well-paced and consistent. So I feel like these kinds of problems are totally artificial ones that people create for themselves by obsessing over one piece of media and consuming fan content about it for years on end. Ironically, it seems like limiting your exposure to a thing to the thing itself, at least until after you've finished consuming it, seems to be the best way to preserve your enjoyment of a thing. Like, there are other things out there. Just don't obsess about one thing to the point that you burn yourself out and ruin it for yourself.
But yeah, I agree that indie animation fandom online seems uniquely vicious and hyperbolic, to a degree that far surpasses the normal amount you typically see in any fandom.
Eh, season 1 was pretty drawn out and slow. It was pretty much just slice of life at that point, so from a narrative point of view it was very slow paced. But other than that and the homeworld "arc" that everyone agrees was rushed (cartoon network's fault), it was very well paced, yeah.
I liked the show in the beginning loved it in the middle but it lost me near the end.
Towards the end it should’ve had a greater sense of urgency but it instead dumped it in favor of the marriage between Ruby and Sapphire which was alright, but it felt greatly out of place. They could’ve had it at the end but chose not to, that and the fact the shows ending felt really like they were speed running that shit. Every second of the show felt like it was preplanned until the end.
Agree on the limiting your exposure of a piece of media to preserve your enjoyment of it, and the whole " don't make something your whole personality " is an issue that seems to be very widespread these days.
@@rokva5771People are having chronic identity crisis nowadays especially after the lockdowns. That's not just in fandoms either.
Can we just like a show for what it is without judgement? I like HB and HH a lot, but it's Spindle Horse's creation, not mine.
"too much red" has the same energy as "too much water"
I do agree that the extended time between episodes helps fester the problems in the fandom. It gives people as much time as possible to analyze and create head canons. If it was a weekly format like most cartoons on television, it would’ve allowed people to gush over everything than as soon as the analyzers tear into the episode, there’s another one right around the corner.
The extended time between episodes has allowed everyone to basically create their own ending for the show. I’m also guilty of this, I have my own head cannon of how Helluva Boss will end. But me and everyone else need to just enjoy what we have right now. Yes there’s things to critique, I sure as hell have critiques of Helluva Boss, but we need to just quiet down and let the indie studios have the spotlight so we can set a better precedent for the future.
for anyone who doesnt think that they are making good points, look at Stella, every fan assumed and predicted she was going to be an evil genius and when the show DELIBERATELY showed Stella ch0king someone as a child in a picture, they refused to believe shes just a blindy angry person
Nobody thought that Stella was going to be an evil genius, and her being angry is in no way a problem. It’s just truly unbelievable that the show that claims to be deep created this one-dimensional strawman of a female character who is pure evil entirely for the sake of painting Stolas in a sympathetic light and antagonizing the main gay couple, all in the best traditions of a yaoi fanfic written by a 14-year-old.
yeah that is not the reason people hate stella. it is because she is an uncomplicated character in a world where complicated characters who do bad things, like blitz, are abundant
Because assuming that would be a bit sexist and simplistic.
Now surely I won't expect too much from women coming from Vivzie's works.
@@AspiringVillainomfg so true
Not even close💀
I’m just happy to be in this odd generation of Indie animation and stories that wouldn’t be brought to life otherwise. So many people have ideas that could potentially be brought to the world. Nothing is perfect, lots of things can go to sh!t quickly, yet we have to appreciate what we do have.
Esp in recent years where the decline of DVDs basically made studios afraid to take risks; and Disney basically buying every IP to avoid bankruptcy
Having personal grievances/critiques with a show or any piece of media is 100% fine, but at some point you have to acknowledge your offense will not apply to everybody. In a group of 1000 people, I doubt any of them will have the same exact critiques. Especially when it's as mundane as "I felt as if this character was a poorly made callout," or "I didn't care for the episode."
10:43 angel being a dick is exactly what im hoping for lol! definitely feels like im in the minority there though... while people should try to forget old stuff and embrace hazbin as a new property, i still think its worth discussing how he was originally portrayed in vivzie's art, etc., as quite a complex character, with many different experiences and plights in both his human life and afterlife that made him who he is. it feels like a lot of people diminish him into being the perfect victim for the sake of angst farming, which makes me a bit sad.
He was already a dick even during the pilot. While Addict does humanise him and shows that he does experience issues, thing is that he is less open towards people (besides maybe Cherri) and in the same music video, outright refuses any comfort for Charlie who showed concern for him.
So he's more of a person who takes out his stress and trauma on random people by being an asshole or consuming drugs since obviously he cannot try to kill or do anything bad to Valentino who functions as his financial support despite Valentino being abusive (and the show might also be of Angel learning to tone down and be nicer to his friends since the Hazbin Hotel is indeed for redeeming sinners).
Yeah But Viv's Gonna Probably Gonna Be Accused Of Being Homophobic Again.
Ive been a fan of Vivzipop's work for a decade at least and I have actively avoided the fandom. My fandom days died at the same time i left Tumblr. I regret how rabid I was in my Tumblr days, have swallowed the ptsd, grown and moved on. I just want to enjoy the things I like. Thank the creators for their hard work. And go home. Too old for drama. I look forward to every episode and while sometimes i wish certain things would happen I am a passenger on this train and if i dont like it i can always get off at the next station.
You're the most mature person I've seen in like a fat minute. Thank you genuinely cause yeah same here dude.
Based
@@0dragonhearted068 you wanna hear my hazbin hotel ocs?
@@voxthetvdemon1030No
Honestly, there's nothing wrong with being part of a fandom, but you should always try to avoid the worst parts and enjoys anything good out of it. I'm in one based around a book series, centered around dragon characters. It has a fandom and there is shit in it, but also a lot of good thing in it too. I have a some headcanons here and there and I felt disappointed that it will only remain headcanons. The only difference between me and the extreme morons, is that I accepted it that it will never happen how I want, while others are too dumb to accept that it will never be like they want. You can make OCs which I have from the fandom i have mentioned, and interact with it with people who loves that kinda stuff too. But never become like those crazy mfs who think they should own everything. This is what I am. A decent person who likes making OCs, depending on the fandom it is about, I interact with some fandoms, I eat a lot of fanfictions if they are pretty fun to read and not terrible, and I give the middle finger to anyone who only brings negative to everything. Cuz seeing them loosing it over what they didn't get is Heeeella fun.
I always say this one thing when it comes to criticizing something: Meet it in the middle
in other words when you're engaging with a piece of media, engage with what it's trying to present to YOU, rather than what you think of IT (remove your headcanons, preconceptions of tropes unless they ACTUALLY matter, etc)
I can love Pokemon for its quirky cast, funny critters, and genuine emotional moments yeah. And I could criticize it for things like the pacing or animations
but it would be stupid for me to criticize it because it wasn't the dark and mature game with deep themes. That's not the story it's trying to tell even if it gets close to it sometimes
It would be cool if more people had that Meet In The Middle mentality when it comes to critizigin something; cuz even sometimes the middle in question can be hella flawed
Thing is, what you're describing here is a band-aid fix to a fundamental problem. When people get angry at shows for not being what they expected it to be, that's often their fault. Because they see below the bare minimum, get excited then stop paying attention.
Like, rwby never had a statement of intention other than being a show about cute girls fighting each other. Yet people hated on it for being a highschool slice of life, then hated on it for being a classical adventure for the mcguffins. And all that rings hollow when you realize that what it is worst off for is that the girls stopped being cute and endearing outside of the "comedy moments".
Sure, you can criticize it for doing what it wants to do that volume poorly, or for weak consistency and believe me, given half the chance I'll fucking go off about how volume 8 thrashed everything volume 7 seemed to build up.
But fundamentally people just like to pick on shit that's not what they expected rather than acknowledging they maybe consumed the media wrong. Which is especially galling considering the sheer amount of people who supported the last of us 2 despite it outright LYING to us through the trailers and being made by an ultra AAA company, the people within whom are FAR less likely to get hurt by hurtful comments.
The middle is too close to the left for my liking.
While I do generally agree as this mind set has made me enjoy some of my favorite media by simply changing my mood going into it, I also think this way of thinking is also used to deflect criticism a lot of the time. We shouldn't let people who are just hating for the sake of it or people who 'don't get it' ruin the fun but we also shouldn't do what I've seen some people do with helluva boss and deflect criticism with "that's the point" even when its horribly executed.
@@lilpenn7516 oh no I agree with you!
Despite what my comment says I have been someone who is very, VERY vocal about my critiscms of Helluva/Hazbin to my friends (especially since Helluva has been doing some questionable things for its second season; I'm sensing a whole lotta unplanned stuff)
You can meet something in the middle and still have problems with it
_If I hear "Well they're in hell, no this is fine because it's realistic, etc" one more time I'm going to shove my head into a fracking WALL_
GREAT SARCASTIC CHORUS THE AUDIENCES WILL BE Furious
The haters will never shut up. Nothing or nobody is perfect enough to get everyone to not hate it or them. The best thing Viv and the team can do is go the direction THEY want with their vision and tune out the noise. They've already made changes to the way they handle things in Helluva Boss I imagine based on fan backlash or perceived future fan backlash, so that's why I'M worried, personally, but as long as Hazbin is as much of Viv's vision as we can get, and everyone just largely ignores the fandom and lets it eat itself, everything will turn out as good as humanly possible.
I’ve been a fan of viv’s work since zoophobia and was part of the hazbin fandom since before the pilot’s released and ho boy I ain’t touching the current fandom with a 5 foot pole
I like the way Gooseworx is handling it “If the fandoms bad I’ll just tank the show on purpose”
Obviously Hazbin doesn’t have this luxury since it’s been formally picked up but… dare to dream.
I wouldn't take anything that gooseworx says too seriously tbh pretty sure their gonna do what they want with their show regardless
Wait what?
goose said that as a joke
Wouldn't that just piss off the Fandom even more if they realize they tanked their own show on purpose? Just to spite them?
Same energy as Robert Pattinson saying he'd ruin Batman on purpose
Hatedom is a good word to describe these types of people. Instead of avoiding the dumpster fire, they just wanna add gas to the fire and then complain about the fire. But I always wonder why does this happen? Why no just go find something you like? I chalk it up to the 'Complaining about the weather' phenomenon, it's somehow more relatable to bond with someone over something bad rather than something good.
It's a dog that eats his own tail. Fans just so happen to like something to the point to become toxic for it and people are going to talk bad about the show because of the toxic fans to the point their negative opinion becomes too frequent, so people are going to antagonize them and so on
I call it the Fandom Menace.
It's "Fans" who complain about the dumbest shit in media. Like a movie being too "woke" because of minority representation. If someone uses "woke" in their argument, they immediately invalidate themselves.
I feel like it goes 2 ways though. There's also obsessed fans who go out of their way to find people who don't like the show or are critical of it, when they could just enjoy it in peace.
Also desperate clout/attention seeking chasers
I'll chalk it up to Twitter culture, because tweets favour opinions and it doesn't take much for people to find new reasons to try and cancel the show. Just 3 days after the reveal of the Hazbin Prime trailer, haters tried to cancel Vivziepop by implying she funded all her work through nepotism, and they ran with that story for a few days until it was revealed they were all believing a rumour.
Great you're talking about this. A while ago I saw someone say they want their money back they spent on merch if the show isn't good, so yeah I'm worried too. I'm definitely going in open-minded, no expectations. They worked hard on this show and deserve a fair chance from the viewers
Oooh, you brought up a good point. Do you think fandoms that old develop a sense of entitlement? The "I spent years fixating on this show and supporting it, they OWE me" thing is an angle that makes a lot of sense. Indie fans can end up being as negative and meddling as the studios that love to take a good show into the ground, albeit not quite as powerful.
@@Scarfgirl Could definitely see that be the case. People spent so much time and money, that they feel entitled to the final product, forgetting that they don't own anything. Supporting a project means supporting a creator's vision, not pushing your own ideas onto them. It's sad to see indeed, how meddling these so-called fans can be.
"there is too much red"
its.... its hell... what did you expect
I’m glad you pointed out that Brandon hardly gets any hate and Viv gets all of it, even though Helluva Boss is a collaborative effort between the two. Not saying hating Brandon deserves hate, it just really just shows the bias people have when it comes to the creation of entertainment. If a woman wants to make a show, book, song or whatever, she has to be a perfect person with a perfect product. Which is impossible and not a standard that men are held to. It doesn’t even matter if she does everything the exact same way a man would, the woman will always be more harshly criticized.
What really gets me is when they pull up "receipts" on Viv for problematic things she's done in the past, and yet NOBODY pulls up receipts on Brandon. Despite the fact that he's been on UA-cam since the very beginning, and is bound to have some off-color things he's said or done because of it.
I mean, people might just not know there’s two creators. People just know it as the other Vivziepop show rather than the Viv and Brandon show. Like, he is a pretty obscure og creator, I think most people just know he is Blitzø’s VA.
Brandon STILL says some of the most Twitter bait "offensive things" on UA-cam and yet people go after vivzie for nothing? Brandon of course doesn't deserve hate but he is trying to be offensive in his humor! Fandoms are so strange... I hope vivzie never gives up despite the weirdos and straight up scary people.
@@ToastyNoneofyourbusiness Its always shocked me that nobody has tried to drag Brandon for some of the shit in his older videos. A lot of that was pretty bad even for the time. Not saying that he deserves it, but people attack Vivzie for way less but completely lose that energy for her male co-creator. Hell when the Blitz almost said the r-word in one episode, Vivzie got dragged even though Brandon has said it a lot in his older videos.
I'm not a hater but if I was I would've given most of my hatred to her instead I give her my adoration because it's her UA-cam channel and I didn't know it was a collaborative effort In direction I just thought did blitzo's voice.
I don't like people hating Vivzie's art style and I'm not among those people who hate her art, I love it and it's unique.
What I hope happens is enough normal people come in and water down the acidity. I also like the art style too, but I don't watch it because the fandom is super fucking toxic, and I'm tired of shows with toxic fandoms.
bet these are the same ppl who complain about Cal-arts being everywhere. Fans are exhausting.
@@Lovehandels
That's why you don't try to make everyone happy when you make something like this. I hope Vivian takes in the legit criticism and ignores everything else.
I dont hate it, but man if i dont wish that she tone down on the red.
@@neonoah3353all the red XD
I feel bad for creators who have their work crapped on,because of their toxic fandom.
Bro I hate them for making us pay to watch the series we waited for so long
@@hi-ez1hw I bet that sucks, I can't relate cause I don't have interest in hazbin hotel, in any case these things happens not everyone gets a huge opportunity to have their show aired on a huge streaming platform and the ones that do don't exactly get to call all the shots.
The point of my comment is that toxic fan bases have a way of ruining shows and garnering unwanted hate towards creators,its not all but the ones with awful behavior make the biggest impact.
Here’s how we all solve this issue
Let the haters hate, ignore them, and move forward with our lives.
I’m hyped for Hazbin, Helluva has don’t nothing to alter or prepare my thoughts, they’re 2 different shows with 2 different sets of potential. Helluva is taking it in its own direction, Hazbin will take it in it’s own direction, the haters will not get to me and ruin anything for me, and that’s how it should be.
We will see. I hope the fandom will be positive or shut the heck up.
Ditto bro.
But if they have some good criticism, then they should speak.
They won't be, You can hope, but they can't even handle people doing redesigns, or given valid criticism without spewing hate speech
Literally every fandom or cultural trend in history has had its share of bad apples. Unless they’re making genuine threats towards other people, the best thing to do is to just ignore them. Take a break and try something else you might like. Most of the haters will eventually tire themselves out and move on to another fandom like the drama-craving parasites they are.
I think disney was criticized too
100% agreed. And as to the adult animation is all sex and swearing point in particular: I could, at best, offer Arcane as an adult animated show that doesn't rely on gore, swearing, and sex to earn its adult animation badge. Even shows like Invincible, which is fantastic, DO rely on at least one of those things...The only animated show for adults that actively subverts those expectations that I can think of IS Arcane. I'm sure others DO exist, but I really am struggling to think of even one more...
To be fair, for a lot of the better shows it's not a case of "we put this in here so it's for adults" and more of a "this is for adults so we might as well include those things because... well that's kinda just what happens sometimes and we're allowed to show it".
Moral Orel deserves to be in the good adult animated shows list
I rememeber a youtuber describe the overreliance of gore, dirty jokes or swearing in adult shows come off of some sense of embarassment or self consciousness for using a medium associated with kids media. Not all of them feel that, but the ones that did definitely set a predecent for it. To the point that people are now glomming to actual kids shows to watch animation that ironically doesn't talk down to them, for better or worse.
Yeah I still don't see swearing as a problem, it honestly makes it more real to me. Like spoiler alert but IRL people swear all the fucking time. As long as it's not so over the top it feels dumb I think swearing in shows is totally fine.
Another I'd say is Primal since there is little to no dialogue at all. But if I may throw in my 2 cents, I believe another issue for the constant swearing in adult shows is sadly another cultural issue we have... adults not taking animation seriously. You name it, The Simpsons, Ren and Stimpy, South Park, even when Sausage Party put up those warnings, there are always people who are gonna generalize animation as just "kids stuff" just because they see it as a silly cartoon. And then when they let kids watch stuff they shouldn't be seeing, THEN they blame the shows, movies and games, and never take responsibility. Essentially letting people believe that even with the sex and violence in the shows, as long as you keep up the swearing it'll clue in to those pea brains that the show is NOT for kids. And sadly this problem has been going on for decades...
4:50 an Ad popped up and i don't know if that was planned or hilarious happenstance ✌❤🐀
NGL, I thought you were gonna talk more about how they replaced all the VAs. That felt really shitty. That's been my only complaint.
God, after the drop from The Amazing Digital Circus and the drama that's already happening from that circus, it wouldn't be surprising if more stuff were to go down.
Yeah and digital circus didn't have problematic stuff or anything of that kind and yet people speed ruined toxicity there
Regardless of how good or bad something is, toxicity in the Internet will come anyways
What are they possibly complaining about?
@@WhiteScorpio2 they did the "I hate this thing despite many media having it but its worse here"
People complained about jax being a jerk character and people attacked each other in the comments, the jerk character type exist long ago like with bugs bunny, Tom and jerry, cartman etc. But now with TADC is specifically an issue somehow
Same with helluva boss with swearing that people hold it specifically againts despite many media doing the same thing, that type of stupid nitpick
@@Haphu15 Wow literally the most iconic character type out there 😂 not everybody has to like it but that genre of character is clearly well loved, there's really no issue
@@seraphim108exactly, is the same stupid nitpick they pick to hate on something every time
Attack of titans fans went toxic about mikasas desing for looking "mainly" and later she is sitting down on a table and people started attacking other for how "sexualize" she looked
They never agreed on What they hate, anything is fair game to send death threats over, final episode will release this week and I can't only imagine the state of twitter when it happends
For the most part I agree with you, but I also feel like another factor to consider is the ages of fans. I followed Vivian's work since I was in middle school (I'm a junior in college now) and my feelings on her stuff have changed. I also have a better understanding of animation and the overall creation process for any peice of media, so older aged audience members will have a more varying view maybe moderate even and be more objective. However it's the younger new and old fans (preteens and teens) that I'm afraid of. Because these kids are born on the internet. Raised by tablets and spend all their free time on it. Those fans will have the biggest Steven bomb problem special with the stage of development their in. Think they know better but in reality don't and should be humbled! Again I would know, I was a kid when zoophobia and early stages of hazbin were a thing, and I knew how that Fandom was. So yeah I have the same fear but I hope overall the show does great and already it's improved since it's concept, pilot and other media.
You are completely right there. It's mostly THAT group that is the problem. And it's a pretty big group too! I noticed each time a HB/HZ merchandise video drop on Vivzie's channel happens the comment section is flooded by (underaged) entitled children who whine about not being able to afford it or can't buy it because they need their parent's consent. Or demanding an update regarding Hazbin Hotel. It's also the generation that is on Twitter (yes, I'll continue to call it that) and TikTok all the time to spew crap about their headcanons and complain about every little thing.
I hope that, with Hazbin only available on a streaming platform you have to pay for, it will filter out the worst 'fans' and also bring in some fresh audience that can appreciate the show for what it will be. But yes, I fear the real thing won't meet the expectations of those entitled people who have long since blurred the lines between canon and their headcanons.
Honestly, I just try to ignore the whole drama as much as I can so I can continue to enjoy what I love. Helluva Boss has been a animation highlight these past few years and I'm sure Hazbin Hotel won't disappoint. So let's just sit back, enjoy the show Vivienne has managed to create and all show our appreciation.
Adult fans can be really scary too tbh. I think the fandom has a problem with general immaturity.
They are also extremely inexperienced with life and like 80% of the stuff in both shows sails clean over their heads. I used to be in the reddit subs and I was constantly having to explain stuff to kids. They outed themselves simply by not knowing things adults would. Not picking up on social cues and utterly romanticized relationships. There are a scary number of pre-teens watching these shows... they get super attached to things and lose their minds if it doesn't go how they thought it would.
@@randomperson-kx6mv True, some adults don't grow out of their immaturity and have too much to time to be an annoyance. But it's usually pre-teens and teens who get too attached to something and feel the need to project themselves onto fictional characters.
Dude all that's needed to save the show is good writing. Cool character designs is nothing without a story to tell.
Helluva boss is already well written. So there is no reason to worry for Hazbin Hotel.
@@darkwoods639helluva is between mid and good for me but I'm around 18 so maybe it just me.
@@darkwoods639 Heavily debatable.
@@darkwoods639 I don't really need to explain how the Show itself deconstructs its own Worldbuilding, picks apart its Characters how they're handled in the sense that they are supposed to be pitied.
Like I said, heavily debatable. Fun to watch, however.
@Spino-hx2mr Yes you do, elaborate, enlighten us, back up your claims.
It's already happening. People have their own headcanon for what Lucifer sounds like and his whole personality. They are not happy with the voice actor who has a sweet voice.
And don't forget Vox lmao. The man has spoken like 5 words in a trailer and the fandom has lit their torches 😂
cant wait to listen to his surprisingly calming voice talk about straight up facts 🙏🙏
yess he litreally never misses
Honestly I think my favorite part about her writing so far has been the way she writes the characters. They're all interesting in one way or another. From Alastor's vocal cords, to Moxie's unwillingness to change in the face of adversity, it's all so good to me. It's not perfect, but that's one thing she does an amazing job at, compared to a lot of shows making one note characters. She makes them interesting before the drama, and then makes their character the reason why drama. I'm not joking when I say I've seen so many shows do the opposite and just run with it.
Agreed! Vivian and her team are actually pretty talented despite the toxic fandoms. Wish people appreciated it more instead of demonizing them over their minuscule flaws.
@@pantherbeastly3934viv is horrible at writing but go on
People forget that characters need to be 3 dimensional at all times. Not like one episode its one character who is presented as an actual person, and everyone else is their for them. I think both helluva boss and hazbin hotel dont do this, they always feel like everyone there has purpose. It gives the shows real diversity imo, as many people can relate to a character without them being swept to the side as just a filler character
Really? Because the characters are all, too a man, insufferable. None of them are remotely likable, nor do they act in any way like actual people, and neither are they funny or entertaining. I don't think she's a very good writer at all, since every joke is the sort of thing that I imagine a 13-year old would come up with. Yes, we get it: swearing and talking about sex is naughty and taboo, could we go to the well with literally anything else?
I like to think about fandoms the same way I think about video games. Hate the player, dont hate the game.
I just hope this won't cause *too* much problems, I'm just a casual enjoyer of these animations that aren't looking forward to new content every day but it feels like a great day whenever new content does arrive.
Hazbin is honestly carrying the hopes of an entirely new era of independently produced animation on its shoulders, and I think it's worth supporting and I'm ready to give it multiple chances and the benefit of the doubt, because I want other animators and storytellers of the internet to have the courage to keep creating and putting their work out there. We need to take at least some power away from the big companies who care more about money and profit, rather than creativity and new innovation
The show is great. It's the fans that ruin it for the creators. Because what animator or writer wants to put themselves through dealing with the horrifically toxic fans who infest everything and claim to know better than the creator. Fans will kill indie animation. Not bad shows.
@@mycroft16I hope that Digital Circus won’t go through the same fate but the pilot just came out, and that fate is probably going to happen💀
@@ZippyZeeHeh Oh it will 100% happen. It already is. Fans are latching on to characters and creating all sorts of head canons and they'll get impatient and start demanding things etc. And while it seems likely that Glitch will release a full 1st season, there is no official word yet.
@@mycroft16 The show is *_not_* great, though.
@@BestWayKilla That is your opinion. Others disagree. Neither is right or wrong.
Out of curiosity, why do you find it not great?
I admit I am a little worried for Hazbin too, hope my worries are nothing and everything turns out fine.
You're so right about headcanons and Im glad you pointed out the youtube problem. Almost every Hazbin "critizm" I saw was people complaining show not doing the things they wanted it to do.
you sure you aren’t just meat riding? because these criticisms have some merit but you guys typically refuse to see it that way
My only gripe about HH is lterally the replacing of the actors and how scummy it was. So glad to see this was called out in your video!
"They'd rather on [Spindlehorse] than go love something else."
That's so true! Main character syndrome is so wild. Some people think that media should bend to their will, not realizing that Spindlehorse doesn't have to cater to anyone but themselves. They're glad we watch their show, but they don't owe us *anything.*
im with nux on this just ignore the haters they can burn with hate and venom till theyv burned themselves out, the fans and the creator viv should just enjoy the show for what it is.
I agree 😮
Hes a hypocrite. He was pro doxxing others. Viv is a doxxer like Sssniperwolf.
This doesn't fix the problem though. Hasbin Hotel and Helluva Boss ARE liable to criticism. The bad faith hate is quite ridiculous but just having nothing but supporters and dick riders wouldn't benefit the shows either.
i didint even imply valid critisisim should be ignored, i used the words hate and venom for a reason. @@infidel5928
@@infidel5928True, there's always ways to offer criticism without outright hating a show.
Reminds me of when Undertale was *HUGE* in 2015-2016 which led to many people hating it because of the fandom. Now that it's calmed down so has the backlash.
It's sad how people jump on hate bandwagons for the silliest reasons without attempting to think reasonably.
I agree so much... this whole angry crowd is so annyoing.
I actually got to engage in a philosophical discussion regarding fandoms today, and I think that some parts of it (particularly regarding fandom etiquette) are things that people in this fandom NEED to hear. The biggest one being that if you critique a piece of media, you should also include how to make it better. And this goes especially for the hatedom, but also a bit for the fandom as well.
Use constructive criticism everyone. Don’t just call stuff trash.
This right here I completely agree with. This is why I don't ask for personal opinions regarding a show ever or at least until I watched it myself. Like I think the amount of criticism alot shows, animations,anime etc is getting out of hand and is quite frankly ridiculous. All I see is just complaints and unnecessary amounts of with no actual constructice criticism on how to make things better. I rather go into watching things blind now because I cannot stand how people are so quick to criticize something they probably don't even want or have enough information on.
Unfortunately it's easier to throw away basic humanity behind a screen than it is in person. There are no consequences to being a lil shit online outside of being trashtalked into oblivion on your own thread.
90% of the fandom who do this, wouldn't say a thing if they were outside facing the rest of the fandom in public.
The best thing is to not give a reaction and let the hatedom fade into obsecurity like they should.
This franchise could be better improved if they separated the comedy from the serious and paid more attention to building other characters except the main cast Moxie's life barely has a damn sense of existence
And make sure you criticism makes sense so do research
Agreed.
I have my issues with the shows, but I fucking love them so much. Honestly, my only worry about Hazbin is that Cherri might not be in it with how there is no content of her.
Don't worry, Cherri will be in the show! She had an official redesign announcement on Hazbin Hotel's official socials. I just don't think she will be treated as a main character, hence as to why she doesn't appear in any sneak peeks.
@@missghost8579 honestly, I don't mind that. She always seemed like a side character to me. I'd love to see her as a recurring character but yeah, I doubt she was ever meant to be one of the main characters since she's not part of the Hazbin staff or guests
God I love these shows and I have helped support them so much. I’m frustrated because the level of hate that they get stops honest critique getting through or having any hopes of being heard. Because there are things that deserve it. His other video ‘the millie problem’ is a Good watch. It just sucks that some of the fan base actively turns on and destroys lesser artists for not shipping things the right way. Adults bullying kids and people treating Viv like she’s the devil. Like- how did the Fanbase become Hell???? Lmfao
My biggest problem has been the opposite, being attacked for criticism. Many fans act like everything Vivzie does is perfect, and if you don't like everything it's a personal attack and you're not a fan.
There are three groups of people: haters, lovers and the rest (not interested, not in fandom or just having laugh at the shitshow of what first two groups are doing)
Same here. I think that this fandom has a much larger issue with actually taking constructive criticism then they’re willing to admit, so it’s easy for them to just constantly blame the toxicity on “haters” instead of looking inward and realizing that even mild dislike of something is met with nothing but fangs (understandably since so much of the hate that does come is unnecessary which leaves the fandom on the defensive constantly)
@@adiagilbert8894 people just need to chill. Yeah, it's not great that someone is trashing your fav show, but on the other hand, they won't change their opinion about it, and fan becoming a toxic shit to "show how bad those haters are" is pretty hypocritical. Both groups have closed mindset and will cause trouble.
You know what piece of fiction the state of Helluva Boss fandom reminds me a lot of? Twilight. Not in terms of the quality of the work, but in that anyone you talked to about it seemed to be in one of two positions, each more creepy than the last: said piece of fiction was their whole personality and they would either defend it tooth and nail in a violent way or they would have such a visceral hatred for it that you could almost say the author killed that person's parents and kicked their dog personally
Wait really ? Remind me of Persona 5 fandom . They seriously have civil war for picking which girl to romance with . Even though the game allow you to have harem
@@danny90099 wait hold on, is the persona 5 fandom that's toxic that bad? I get is a minority but I never hear how bad they are
When it came to the replacement of VAs, I thought that was more likely an A24 issue. Because Viv had to work alongside A24 and any of their wishes. So, if the producer decides they want to "trade up", they're gonna "trade up".
I'm personally quite looking forward to it. I enjoyed the weirdly cut trailer, and I realize it's pretty weirdly cut. Likely due to only wanting to show a fraction of the song, get the barebones of character interaction, and show off at least one bit of 'shock value' to pique interest. (yeah, the hellhound and succubus scene.).
I don't care much for any marketing issues. I also find it weird that people complain when adult shows 'swear too much'. Yes, it's an industry issue, that many writers don't seem to know how to write adult humor without swearing and sex. But honestly, for a series that takes place in hell, it feels like it's pretty fitting in HH and HB. Inhibitions probably wouldn't be high in a Hell like this.
If anything, I still have an issue with the societal treatment of sexuality and sexualized content.
It's often abhorred more than brutal violence. Splatter brains? that's fine. Kinky romances, especially kinky queer romances? Oh no, that 'goes too far'.
I've seen this play out in some content reactions, like say Fizz and Ozzie kissing in Helluva Boss, that 'that' is where some reactors get uncomfortable.
Going back to the toxic fandom problem. Yeah, it's really weird how that kind of stuff just festers, and people get so attached to head-canons etc. or nitpick every flaw.
Suffice it to say, I'm going to go ahead and enjoy Hazbin for whatever it is, as an animation enthusiast.
Sorry but kinky queer stuff is for the minority. Majority of us are straight. That's why it doesn't sell well.
I think part of the reason sex is worse than violence is because of the agreement we as a society have reached on sex. "Two consenting adults in their bedroom" is the standard, which means taking it out of the bedroom is taboo. Meanwhile violence and gore is less delegated to a specific private vs public dynamic.
Also, wasn't A24's whole appeal that they give creators complete control?
@@shifty_dragon3679 Nope. They own Hazbin Hotel. Viv barely have much say.
@@shifty_dragon3679 They gives creators a lot of control but I don't think any company gives a creator 100% control.
Some very good points made here, awesome video. I’ve been part of the fanbase for a few years now, I’m pretty attached to the characters of the hellaverse so obviously I have high expectations. Having said that, I don’t have any particular headcannon for the events to unfold - only speculations, so I’m going in with an open mind. I just hope Vivienne doesn’t let ppl hating on the show make her doubt herself, cuz I think it’s a really cool universe :)
I am just learning about how bad some of the fanbase is 😔
I am fairly new to Helluva Boss so I had the luxury of binge watching all of seasons 1 and 2 up to where we are now, and I loved every second of it. I am anxiously awaiting the next episode like most of you lovely people in this comment section. That also being said I am not on Twitter very often so I don't see any of that drama, and only ever see it when it gets pulled over here to UA-cam.
Thank you for covering all of this, and for all of your other videos, it has been a bit eye opening.
Um no the show great vizziepop is just a horrible person who entitled and can’t accept criticism like a true artist 🧑🎨
@purpirek that is fair. There are also people claiming to be fans that have gone after people on Twitter for things out of thier control (i.e the voice actors). Sadly that does reflect on the fanbase even if most of the fans are lovely people.
@@purpirek Not being able to accept criticism doesn’t necessarily make someone a bad person. Reasons have to be stronger than that
I like that Vivzie doesn't attack haters or call criticism stupid. She agrees if she can, she's willing to provide explanations, and if she needs to change something she tries to. So, this boils down to "we hate this person and don’t want them to succeed so we’ll witch-hunt them." The internet is full of this petty vindictiveness. It’s not unusual sadly. Raise your hand if you're tired of drama and nonsensical slander towards Vivziepop and Team SpindleHorse. ✋
I love Queen Bee I think it fits her situation really well.
she harassed a person who made their takes of her character designs
are you joking 😭😭
Oh yey Viv had been a pussy about criticism since s2 like s2 is an example of to when you get overconfident about oh people will gobble it up no matter how badly written it is which is hellva and there's even lots of vidoes by now that actually goes into good detil about why hellva s2 is the worst thing of all planet besides great animation but everything ealse is what happends if you think oh its indie everyone won't care how bad it is and we'll here we are
At times fans would bug the creator about specific characters. For example, one person kept asking the name of the hellhound husky that was interested in Loona in Queen Bee. Viv gave the husky a name. It really shows that fans have very little patience or just can't make a name for the character that we can all agree on.
This is part of the reason with i love Camp Camp a lot more than other adult cartoons. It isn't afraid to be crass or out there but there's a certain amount of restraint they have. It never goes too far. That, and it makes time to actually have some genuine heart. Season 1 is like season 1 of Steven Universe in a sense that theirs bits of story that becomes more and more apparent as the series progresses, its story, characters and hidden lore so so interesting and it’s filled with mystery, epic story arks and emotional moments that I’d seriously call it one of the best animated shows ever made, too bad it’s criminally underrated, not many people are all that aware of it, despite is having a fandom that adores it.
YES! I love Camp Camp, and I agree with you. Its so good at balancing crass ridiculous humor, with more emotional elements.
Wait this comment just made me realize that they took almost every single Camp Camp episode off of UA-cam??
@@elokin300really? Seasons 1-3 are there, season 4 is on the website, and a little final comback episode released a bunch a go on yt
The ad placement in this video between "Anticip... ation" to make it even longer is probably my favourite use of an ad on this site
I’m excited for the show! After seeing the pilots several years ago I actually didn’t watch Helluva Boss until this week when I binged it - that was definitely a smart move on my part because I was able to enjoy the bulk of it one episode after another. I can feel this as a writer/creator (paranormal romance author of Blood Moon: crescent crown saga and A Promise So Dark & Wicked on kindle vella) you have to make personal and professional choices to live a good life and produce a good story. That may include not recasting (former) friends as voice actors and opting for bigger names to bring a new flavor and hype to the show. Also not giving a damn what your fandom does to your characters in their head cannon and fan art. We hope that fans are respectful to one another and the content but don’t control them and while we’re grateful for our fans, their desires cannot inform the final story which comes from within/a great team. I can still appreciate a story even if I can imagine it being better in some way or another. Nothing is perfect and most is a matter of opinion anyway. I’m really enjoying Helluva Boss and excited for Hazbin Hotel ✨
I will say there's also been some stuff about Spindlehorse coming out from former employees like Salem (@squidderdoodle) who have been talking about working under Viv. Mainly about poor management and a controlling nature. In response to the fandom as a whole, the creative leads have (allegedly) been lumping all criticism together as toxic which is understandable given what's been brought up here, but it's also shut out any good faith critiques as well.
In all honesty its a new studio. So for someone one new to animation studio life creating a studio and direction shows and if its been a show idea since you were a kid. Likely the down would be poor management and seeming controling. Add in toxic couch potatoes who jerk off to making others miserable because they beleieve their the only ones who exist which fun fact their not yeah, its likely going to take a bigger toll on viv.
For not im going to say this is just toxic low lifes and the stress of creating a studio and getting stuff out there is whats making her seem controlling and having poor management. Also the fact she also works on the projects too.
You should SEE those that have been getting harassed by the Fans, like Cartoonshi and others Artists for just doing their own Redraw or Review of the show, where they went and said they’ll never review HB again due to the backlash they got from it.
The way the Fandom has been treating Salem on twitter is disgusting. Prominent fanartists telling him to shut up and get over it, people devaluing the amount of work he put into the show, people posting the "impjak" at him....the Fandom has no shame.
Sadly there's proof and the language she used is not pretty. It's understadable to dislike trolls, but you can't tell people who want to help you by giving you tips to "fuck off" and "eat a dick" ( or something like that. I don't remember ).
@@deoxyribomorph99 I wish more people talked about this. Like, ok, sometimes both Hazbin and Helluva get shit for no reason and it's important to point out that haters blow some things out of proportion and straight up harass the crew. BUT, it's also important to talk about about the part of the fandom that does like the show and give shit to people who don't
tbh it doesn't matter if the show is good or bad, the people working on it and even ones enjoying it casually gonna be harassed and bullied to shits
people just cant have fun anymore, its all has to be about fighting
people criticising will get harassed by creator and her fans
Like attack of titans, fans, anime staff and it's author were constantly getting death threats when the final season started releasing, the show is good but toxicity is really strong on those that want to smear the franchise for others
So true mate. It’s hard to enjoy anything and discuss it nowadays without someone trying to make you feel bad for liking it because they didn’t.
@@FoxGameCZ Oh hey found you again so it’s been three days are you going to show some proof of her being supposedly hurting Dollcreep,KenDraws, and Starvader.
ad played during the pause between 'antici-pation'. comedy gold.
I am a BIG fan of the shows, and honestly, I really like all of it! Its so new, it feels like finaly finding something that is so true to things I like to watch in series. I love the designs, humor, the animations, art, and you can say the writing is not the best, but I adore it. Every episode of Helluva Boss is fantastic, to me it doesn't feel like a fan-fiction. But what if it did? Who cares!? Let people just enjoy the things they like.. I secretly like the flaws, its weird to say it but it makes it more reachable, standing closer to this fantastic big project.
I didn't knew the fandom was this messed up to be fair.. Hearing this almost made me cry. I have such a big heart for these shows, especially Helluva Boss. I hate to hear that Vivziepop and all the people who worked on this got so much hate. It really breaks my heart. I hope people start listening to this. Let people make the things they make, let people love the things they love.. It doesn't effect you, why would you spend so many time on hating, when you can just go love something else and leave the lives of others alone :DDD
I will love these shows forever, some random person who has an opinion will not change that!
Why does everything has to be the perfect masterpiece? I just love this show, because its so creative and fun, experimental. The fact that they made fansongs into cannon songs proves for me how fantastic this is! :DD
As someone who had been one of those fans waiting before the pilot, and is still waiting to this day. I'm pretty scared, and just like you talked about, I among many others have gotten very used to the main headcannons, and bits of facts given to us by the livestreams. So while I will try my hardest to keep those thoughts out of my way, it's still going to be kind of hard. I hope everyone tries to keep this in mind while watching it, and to whoever is reading this. I hope you have an amazing day, goodbye! ❤❤
I am terrified of what the Fandom can do when Viv breathes but if ADDICT is completely retconed all heaven will break loose.
Most people only found Hazbin and then Helluva because of Silva so like...
The bar is so high that any show horse would break it's legs
Honestly, given how popular the video was (it's got more views that the actual HH pilot), and the comments regarding how Valentino will be in the show from his VA, I highly doubt they'll throw all that away.
my little grumpy-husk-adoring heart was shook by that one clip of him smiling and holding angels hand (i hope hes still grumpy- i love grumpy husk). But we all knew that one day we'd be proven right or wrong and now we're dealing with it. everyones ocs are gonna get rebooted.
I just don't have time to hate on things. If I don't like it, I just move along to something else.
I'm excited and anxious for this to finally release. Full props to the creater.
A lesson I learned growing up is: Enjoy stuff on your own & you'll never be upset with what others do or think. If you write stuff for others to enjoy, fantastic. But you don't need to be a part of a fandom to enjoy a property, you can enjoy it by yourself and literally have the best time with it. It can even turn into your guilty pleasure series.
I am inclined to think that part of the toxic fandom problem is that it is based online and still primarily, if not entirely, exists online. The real world is genuinely different, people can be fans or not and it is no problem for the most part. But online? People get too crazy online, and go insanely hellish!
But regardless what others say, and so long as Vivzie is able to keep the series going despite crazed digital demons, then I am super happy to enjoy and just not engage with most of the other fans.
Honestly I'm just excited to be able to see how far the team has come and I just love the idea of the show itself! The animation and character design is fabulous and I'm just excited to see where they decide to take the story! ❤
I got some respect for ole Viv for accomplishing what she has so far. Hope this all goes smooth for that little gal
Lets hope they pull through! We need it🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤
I stand by the worst take being how Pkrussl complained Angel Dust had zero character development
IN THE PILOT EPISODE
Edit: I cant youtube names
Who’s Russel?
@@King_of_Gamers2099 BMy bad, it's Pkrussl
Bad faith critic
@@Bigbruhmoment541Pretty sure that's TheMysteriousMrEnter
But yeah, some people just need to not
I absolutely HATE Pkrussl, I didn't even know he complained about Hazbin, wth??
After he hated on a Warrior cats map about the leader mentally breaking down about her kittens dying made by a bunch of preteens and teenagers for being ''too edgy'' I already hated him, but also SERIOUSLY WHA?!
Angel dust has a SURPRISING amount of development already, with his own music video before the show has even fully come out
@@_-NatureMations-_
I hate when people or critic’s miss the entire point, not pay attention or even forage something to make a criticism.
And it got even worse now with people criticizing full shows or movies based on 15s teaser trailers or clips
Thank you for this take, I agree with everything said here and your points were laid out very well!
Anyways I’m going to forget everything you said in 2 months and get angry at every episode that releases for any minor hiccups I notice
Humans: "No one is perfect.".
Also humans: Expect everything to be perfect and when it turns out that it is not, they loose their minds over it.
I just hope they make a clear storyline, thats how low my expectations are
Ngl this is probably one of my favorite videos from you. I feel like hit the nail right on the head and if you spend any amount of time in animation circles odds are you’ll interact or even know people who have worked on either of these shows and it’s a lot more than people realize. There is a difference between constructive criticism and just being completely inhumane to people just doing a job and that they are somehow beholden to you because you’re a fan and this isn’t an exclusively Hazbin/Helluva Boss problem, this is a HUGE PROBLEM in the cartoon community. I think everyone needs to stand back from their screens a little bit and just think about who is on the other side of that screen. Look I agree that Viv and the shows are not above criticism, I think criticism is necessary in media and her fans need to really chill out and not attack anyone who has mild criticisms of the show or how Viv handles things as a showrunner. Constructive criticism can make us better. But at the same time, Viv is still a living breathing human who is flawed just like the rest of us and is allowed to be a person and not get attacked for just simply breathing. People just need to enjoy the show and just be nicer to each other.
I keep wondering why the online cartoon community, in particular, has a problem with this. It's not just restricted to one show's fandom, you can find it all over the place: Steven Universe, Helluva Boss, Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, etc. Something needs to change in how people think about cartoons and animated shows, I just don't know what or how.
Hopefully the problem of pacing when it comes to airing episodes will be alleviated by the fact that Viv now has the resources of a big studio... I've only been a fan since 2020, and I get *really* sucked into the worldbuilding and all of the potential of character development, drama, etc. This is only worsened by the slow releases, but I've never been less than happy with anything Viv has put out. Everyone has their moments, and everyone makes mistakes, but I think Viv deserves every ounce of support people can give her. Look at that, I've fallen into the trap of giving all the credit to Viv! I mean Viv and her team, and anyone else who has made HB and HH possible, deserve our support.
Great take, both on this specific instance and the issue at large.
Also, you may go on about the flaws in shows like Helluva Boss, but you do so in a very clear manner that addresses what they are and WHY they're flaws, and you're also open about how much you enjoy the shows overall and highlight the parts that work with great enthusiasm. I've been watching your channel since Stolaz got divorced, but I only tried watching an actual episode of the show when Fizzy got confirmed. It's pretty good! And it's REALLY not my usual sort of thing, but dangit, you got me interested, and I'm glad I gave it a try, so thanks for that! :)