Unfortunately I have 10 or more keyboards about my room 2 of which are on kmv duplexes and all are necessary to keep my computers going of which at least 8 are constantly running and getting work done. I could really use half a dozen of those 60% keyboards but with function keys to work the BIOS and such!
@@theodorespatafore4925 well I can use the Fn function anyway, idk if it works for other keyboards, but my keyboard is able to get access to the Fn function when the BIOS starts loading which means I can access to the F layer or the nav cluster to access to the BIOS
Yeah check out that guy on Linus Tech Tips who does a video on the Hasu USB to USB controller ("Can your keyboard do this?") That guy has a keyboard affliction as bad as Chyosran does.
Among all the keyboard channels, you are the one that can reach 10K subscribers! Keep it up to bring both the historical and mega-trendy keyboard related stuffs in front of the camera! :)
I am a 60% user. To me, the point is 60% is not so much about space saving, though it does keep my mouse a bit closer. The most important point is it needs very little hand movement to access any key. For example, on a full size board, I have to move my hand across the board to access arrow keys but on 60% they are right beneath my finger tips with a fn key. P.S. great video. really enjoyed it.
I think keeping my mouse/trackball as close as possible really reduces shoulder fatigue/stress and I totally agree with you about the 60% design ergonomics. I love 60-75% boards. Btw, what 60% boards do you have/like? I'm looking at getting one of these newer ones with rgb and multi-layer programmable pcbs. (they typically run QMK and/or TMK or Easy AVR)
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 I have a TMK Alps64 and an Infinity60, both running QMK firmware. I recently got a FC660C and hasu TMK controller. I like it so far. I find having full programmability in 60% super useful. I have dual role ctrl/esc and spsce-fn layout. Can't live without it.
Small keyboards aren't really about saving desk space, it's about getting your mouse closer in so your arms aren't held in uncomfortable positions. Small boards are a lot more ergonomic.
Well my chair has an arm rest, when I use a HHKB my arm goes straight forward to the mouse, if I use a full size keyboard my arm is hanging in mid air to use the mouse. Even when I use a corner desk and I always get arm support due to the curve of the desk it can ache my arm after a long period of time because it is stretched further out. The best keyboard layout is with the numpad to the left imo
I started to use a 40% (Vortex Core) and the big thing there is that all of your functionality is right there with in a row of the home keys so you don't have to move your hands from that position. I even have a tenkey programmed on one of the layers. I was actually looking for a 60% when I found it and thought "that looks stupid... I need it". I ended up really liking it about as much as my full size keyboards which is my other preferred size. I'm also 6'2" so that mouse is closer to the keyboard thing doesn't really apply to me.
I bought the Unicomp Classic 101 March 2021 and now September 2023. Used a few times and was put into storage. Recently rediscovered and noticed "P" key was acting erratic requiring two or three taps to make contact. Contacted Unicomp and was given RMA but would cost $48.00 plus $16 shipping. After doing my own disassembly I found all but 6 plastic rivet heads were broken off. Unicomp claims this issue was resolved before I purchased in 2021. I would not advise purchasing from Unicomp based on my experience.
Heartbreakingly beautiful keycaps. I just got a 60% alps, and the lack of a nav cluster is frustrating. There isn't much flexibility with key arrangement either. I'm not sure if that can be ameliorated with software if the layout is determined by dip switches. Playing around now with switch sounds/click leaves, but any arrangement sounds better than cherry.
You should check out Kailh Box switches (white/ pale blue), I found them to be smoother and have a sharper/ louder click then my Zealiostotles though slightly less tactile.
I have a diy whitefox 65% with zealios switches already, and it is by far my favorite cherry style switch, and although I typically do like clicky keys(though tactile is more important), I don't want to ruin such a good thing to go through the work of replacing the stems just to then realize I don't like it.
I used to have the same thought as yours. But after switching to 60% board, I have to say that it is so much superior to any other layouts as it reduces so much of tensions on my right shoulder as I can close the gap between my two arms, making the posture more natural.
One thing that I like the most about my Planck (40%) is that it can fit in my small backpack where I usually transport my laptop. If the keyboard was any larger it wouldn't fit. I also like that every key is no more than 1u from my fingers. I touch type, but can't often find keys outside of alphanumeric block without looking (on a normal sized keyboard). It can sometimes get frustrating when I need to look down and search for less used keys, which doesn't happen on my planck. But those reasons are specific to me, and it's kind of stupid when people want to change preferences that others have.
This video is a bit old, so I'm wondering how well the zealiostotles hold up compared to things such as box jades and other more modern offerings (including other hack jobs). weird how much changes in 5 years.
In general I use smaller keyboards for more mousing space, last time I measured my mousing area it was about 21 freedom units or 53cm. I've owned a pok3r and while I love mine, have since moved to tkl boards for schoolwork. Good review
This is the second video I've seen from you where you say the floating key design "offers less protection", and I just can't imagine what you're doing with your keyboard where it's getting hit from the side with enough force to damage the switches. Personally I prefer floating designs because they're easier for me to clean, but both styles are equally aesthetic imo.
Once you get used to whatever key combos you need to access stuff like the function row or the arrow cluster, 60% boards can actually be pretty intuitive, and takes up less space so your desk feels less cramped.
My thoughts on 60% layout… The F1-F12 keys are basically relics from the DOS era when there was no mouse and computers had to be entirely controlled through the keyboard. Now we have drop-down menus. Likewise, a number pad on each and every keyboard made sense back when the major reason for PCs to exist was to run Lotus 1-2-3. (If you do a lot of number entry today, USB accessory numeric keypads are readily available.) Just look at the keyboard that shipped with the original Macintosh in 1984! It was optimized for touch-typing, for entering text, not doing all these other miscellaneous computer-management functions. That's the 60% keyboard philosophy. What seems to be a pain point for many is the navigation cluster and particularly the arrow or cursor keys. This is why 65% layouts (such as the WhiteFox and ClueBoard) continue to proliferate, which are basically 60% layouts with a few extra nav keys awkwardly scrunched in to the right side. Also, lately I've noticed true 60% layouts that shoehorn the four arrow keys into the lower-right corner at the cost of compromising the bottom-row modifiers and often the right-shift key as well. I do think a better solution to this conundrum is possible. I'll let you know when I have a working prototype!
@@masterninjahh The F-keys are usually bound to the number row + a modifier key on these kinds of keyboards. You're not actually sacrificing input options with smaller layouts. You just have to bind the more rarely-used keys to layers or modifiers.
I believe non-blacklit Pok3r's PBT caps are not dyesub but laser etched. It's yellow-gold legend on deep grey keycap. There's no way to dye a lighter color on darker color keycap.
I'm surprised there's a difference between "zeliostotles" and "gaterostotles". I was under the impression that Zelios just used Gateron housings with a custom molded slider.
Somehow in my mind I thought it was just a difference in plastics but Deskthority wiki confirms it: Zealpc uses custom molds for slider and the bottom housing. I do wonder if there's actually a design difference or they just neede a new mold because of some differences in how the clear plastic behaves (we do know it melts a lot faster).
Zealiostotles with the Cherry nylon tops would probably sound really good. They're not very sustainable switches to make though due to classic Zeal Tax, finding some vintage Cherry switches, and finding the Aristotle stems required to make the magic happen. T1 bottoms or Cherry Blue bottoms would probably work well though.
Very intriguing switches! Thanks for the review on these - I've been curious about them for some time. Also curious: what aftermarket keysets are you interested in? I'm sure you're right about them being pricy - I'd just like to pick your brain about aesthetic taste. ;)
I loved the aesthetic of those keycaps so much I literally ordered the last set of black and white ones from mechanicalkeyboards.com and installed them on my tenkeyless Cooler Master keyboard with MX brown switches Fucking love SA keycaps.
The problem with the MX blue click (and this is inherent to the design) is that it isn't a very well-defined click, but rather a quite grainy and rattly click because of the way the click jacket can bounce off of the bottom of the switch housing. You don't really notice it until you try clicky Alps, buckling springs, beam springs, or even the modern Kailh BOX Whites or Kailh Speed Bronzes.
I agree. When he showed the difference between blue and this one at 5:30, I thought that the blue MX keyboard sounded MUCH better. To the extent where I consider the reviewed keyboard to be defective. There is no way I could be using that keyboard for a longer time, I can't stand the sound. I mostly use blue MX switches so I guess it makes sense.
@@trdi To each their own. But to most people that try better designed clicky switches, MX Blues just sound like nasty rattling plastic scratching against other plastic. These are defined clicks, exactly like Chryosran describes them, "full". Personally not my favorite clicky sounding switch though, Box Pinks, Box Jades, and Box Navies sound amazing to me, I just love the sound of an actually metal click bar.
60% is good for gaming. I aim with arm movements instead of the more common wrist movements. I also just normally move the mouse with my whole arm as it’s better for your wrists and I work on a computer all day.
Why people like smaller keyboards: -Mouse closer -Don't have to move your fingers as far when keys are on a FN layer -Portability -Lower cost -More options when desk space is limited If you can afford a large keyboard and sit at one desk a full size is fine, but if you're on a budget and you want something that will work in any situation, a small board may serve you better.
It allows the hand for the mouse to be close to the body so a small keyboard is more ergonomic. Please try Cherry MX Clear Stem in Kailh Speed Copper Housing - whopping tactility!
As a pen tablet user, 60% form factor is important to me since i needed a space for both mouse and pen tablet. However i wish i have a separate dedicated numpad keys since i do a lot of Excel too.
Hmm, i dont really understand your issue with the floating switch design, yes the rim would protect the switches but if you were to hit the keyboard, its unlikely the thing you are hitting the keyboard with will: be thinner than the space between the keycap and the plate, will hit right it between the keycaps and plate, damage the switches really. For mx style switches its only a matter of looks in my opinion
I don't own a 60% yet. Which will probably change at some point, but I love 65% ones. I got two different one. For me it's a mixture between I like how it looks and I like to have very little on my desk (expect what is necessary like my cat)
i use a tkl and have a numpad on the right of my mouse its nicer to have your mouse closer to your left hand when gaming tbh especially good when you use low dpi
I think living with a non full-size keyboard is fine, but only when you have a macropad that has at least one layer to use as a numpad., like the ELSRA numpad/macropad.
There's two core generations, the Kailh ones which were SHIT and the Greetech/Razer ones which have better quality control as Razer stopped using Kailh for these due to customers complaining about shit quality. I still have a first-gen Razer Green board and one of the switches squeaked ever since I took it out of the box. We didn't return it in time.
I wonder how long those switches will maintain that nice feel. Those plastic 'vampire' teeth must surely wear away over time. Do you know of any MX switch clones that contain a metal click leaf?
The teeth don't appear to cause the feeling. They seem to be there just to hook behind the contacts; that way, the jacket doesn't jump out when you open the switch.
Those look and sound amazing. How do these feel compared to a model F? I've been looking around for a clicky mx switch with sharp tactility for a build
I have a keyboard with plate mounted cherry blues. I like the keyboard a lot, but the switches, meh. Is it possible to mod aristotle stems into the cherry housings without taking the board completely apart?
As someone with a full size who used to love having everything in a key, I recently went to Linux and I use vim from time to time therefore I learned the beauty of not having to move my hands from the alphanumeric cluster. I kow want to buy a 60% or ortholinear or split keyboard because I put a lot of strain in my right hand whenever I have a big assignment. So if anyone has any "cheap" ortholinear board to recommend I would love to here about it. Just not super small I really really like numbers I can live without arrow keys and nav cluster though (I ll program vim shortcuts)
Yes, the way the MX design works, this is inherent all such switches. However, it doesn't rattle LIKE MX blues, it's much less apparent and honestly not really audible during keyboard use.
Chyrosran22 I have an ergodox build and keep going between using modded orange alps and gatistotles; I've been staring at it for weeks because I can't decide which way to go... Overall I think I like the oranges better, but having a cherry stem is a big plus as far as keycap options go. I literally froze and can't pull the trigger. There's one switch of each type soldered in and I sit there, going click, clack, click, clack.... argh.
Chyrosran22 ain't they just, I found the good way to restore the poor conditions ones is to remove the coating with very gentle solvent and use dry ptfe coating. The only ones that don't get buttery smooth are where grit got into the switch plate: my suspicion is that this is where the scratchiness in trashed, old, alps comes from. The amazing thing about oranges is that you can dial in the mix of tactile and click to your personal preference by adjusting the angle of the wings. You can make them super tactile and change the sound by adding a drop of solder on the click plate - it's the one switch you can tune to get just right; whatever that's for you. Even stock tactile , they give Topre a run for the money.
The idea for the 60% layout to my mind at least is to do all your typing as close to the home row as possible. If you use the programmability of these board to the maximum, you can do all your coding/typing with very little stress to your hands/tendons.
I recently made these switches after watching this video. At first I used 62 g springs but about 50% of the switches would get stuck and not return so I swapped in some 67g and unfortunately they're far too heavy. It kind of ruined them for me :(
There's a recreation of the aristotle stems coming out which is supposed to fix the problem of the original aristotles, as well as being new, look up aristotle 2.0 on reddit if you're interested
@@raptorzoz6251 That sounds great. I wanted to give gatistotles a try but aristotles were getting more expensive since they weren't being created anymore.
would it be be good to use the Aristotle's with MX Blue housings? I've got an old Chicony KB-5192 with blues, and I would consider this mod as I wouldn't mind a little more tactility, than what blues offer. Or should I build a board with the Zealio housings?
Chyrosran22 Thanks for the reply :D in what way would they be harder to make? I thought you'd just take the caps off and slot the Aristotle stems in? Or is there some modification you need to do to the actual housing? thanks :D
Chyrosran22 ah I see. The problem is I'm after another mechanical keyboard, and I want something more tactile than what cherry has to offer. I might attempt this mod, the Aristotle switches are fairly cheap I suppose
I really want to sell my AJAZZ AK33 and buy this precious gem! It may be not as loud but it really has a decent and lighter tactile bump to it as compared to Zorro Blue switches. It is even much better than Cherry MX Clear in my honest opinion.
With a 60% or smaller you can fit more keyboards on your desk, pretty important ;)
Unfortunately I have 10 or more keyboards about my room 2 of which are on kmv duplexes and all are necessary to keep my computers going of which at least 8 are constantly running and getting work done. I could really use half a dozen of those 60% keyboards but with function keys to work the BIOS and such!
@@theodorespatafore4925 well I can use the Fn function anyway, idk if it works for other keyboards, but my keyboard is able to get access to the Fn function when the BIOS starts loading which means I can access to the F layer or the nav cluster to access to the BIOS
@@hikarii8758 thats because the conversion of fn+1=f1 is handled by keyboard itself, not the PC. You press fn+1, PC hears f1
Yeah check out that guy on Linus Tech Tips who does a video on the Hasu USB to USB controller ("Can your keyboard do this?") That guy has a keyboard affliction as bad as Chyosran does.
fun fact : at 100 wpm typing speed using this keyboard setup ,you have 100% chance of getting smacked on your face by your roommate
I know this comment is late, but I just got up from the slap I got 9months ago. My girlfriend also has a child now, strange.
[Laughs in Model M]
@@HercoVanDyk oof
@@TakeMeOffYourMailingList *laughs harder in Model F*
@@JackOfHarts96 _laughs even harder in taking BOX Navy DZ60 with no foam and brass plate to school for essays_
Hey can you do a review of the Pok......oh.......Nice.
Among all the keyboard channels, you are the one that can reach 10K subscribers!
Keep it up to bring both the historical and mega-trendy keyboard related stuffs in front of the camera! :)
still one of the only channels with an intro that I don't need to skip
I am a 60% user. To me, the point is 60% is not so much about space saving, though it does keep my mouse a bit closer. The most important point is it needs very little hand movement to access any key. For example, on a full size board, I have to move my hand across the board to access arrow keys but on 60% they are right beneath my finger tips with a fn key.
P.S. great video. really enjoyed it.
I think keeping my mouse/trackball as close as possible really reduces shoulder fatigue/stress and I totally agree with you about the 60% design ergonomics. I love 60-75% boards. Btw, what 60% boards do you have/like? I'm looking at getting one of these newer ones with rgb and multi-layer programmable pcbs. (they typically run QMK and/or TMK or Easy AVR)
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 I have a TMK Alps64 and an Infinity60, both running QMK firmware. I recently got a FC660C and hasu TMK controller. I like it so far. I find having full programmability in 60% super useful. I have dual role ctrl/esc and spsce-fn layout. Can't live without it.
@Veronika Zaglotova wowie
This sounds like bs to me. This is WAY MORE hand movement to access function keys
why is his voice so damn soothing
those SA caps are really nice with the white board.
I love how closely knit the community is! I should go to a keyboard meet in NL, even if I have just an unmodded massdrop ctrl
In regards to your statement at 2:06, I've used a Pok3r for years now with a SA set and never had any issues with damaging the switches or keycaps.
Small keyboards aren't really about saving desk space, it's about getting your mouse closer in so your arms aren't held in uncomfortable positions. Small boards are a lot more ergonomic.
I've heard that before, but it still makes no sense to me. Me mouse isn't even near the keyboard usualy Oo .
Well my chair has an arm rest, when I use a HHKB my arm goes straight forward to the mouse, if I use a full size keyboard my arm is hanging in mid air to use the mouse. Even when I use a corner desk and I always get arm support due to the curve of the desk it can ache my arm after a long period of time because it is stretched further out. The best keyboard layout is with the numpad to the left imo
Wobbled Isnt it because people think 60% boards look cleaner with no extra space between keys?
I started to use a 40% (Vortex Core) and the big thing there is that all of your functionality is right there with in a row of the home keys so you don't have to move your hands from that position. I even have a tenkey programmed on one of the layers. I was actually looking for a 60% when I found it and thought "that looks stupid... I need it". I ended up really liking it about as much as my full size keyboards which is my other preferred size. I'm also 6'2" so that mouse is closer to the keyboard thing doesn't really apply to me.
Shiftypoo269 was it hard to memorize where the less common keys ( punctuation keys etc) were?
I bought the Unicomp Classic 101 March 2021 and now September 2023. Used a few times and was put into storage. Recently rediscovered and noticed "P" key was acting erratic requiring two or three taps to make contact. Contacted Unicomp and was given RMA but would cost $48.00 plus $16 shipping. After doing my own disassembly I found all but 6 plastic rivet heads were broken off. Unicomp claims this issue was resolved before I purchased in 2021. I would not advise purchasing from Unicomp based on my experience.
Heartbreakingly beautiful keycaps. I just got a 60% alps, and the lack of a nav cluster is frustrating. There isn't much flexibility with key arrangement either. I'm not sure if that can be ameliorated with software if the layout is determined by dip switches. Playing around now with switch sounds/click leaves, but any arrangement sounds better than cherry.
I just found the channel reaches 10k subscribers! Congrats Thomas!!
Thanks! :)
First time I've heard Zealiostotles in action: I NEED a board of these, geez.
Fortunately, I have ordered myself a WhiteFox with Input Clubs' new "Halo" Switches, so that ought to be interesting.
You should check out Kailh Box switches (white/ pale blue), I found them to be smoother and have a sharper/ louder click then my Zealiostotles though slightly less tactile.
I have a diy whitefox 65% with zealios switches already, and it is by far my favorite cherry style switch, and although I typically do like clicky keys(though tactile is more important), I don't want to ruin such a good thing to go through the work of replacing the stems just to then realize I don't like it.
Yes, Kailh's click bar is an improvement over the click jacket in every way
I got unlucky with a chicony so all I need is the zelio switches
I used to have the same thought as yours. But after switching to 60% board, I have to say that it is so much superior to any other layouts as it reduces so much of tensions on my right shoulder as I can close the gap between my two arms, making the posture more natural.
One thing that I like the most about my Planck (40%) is that it can fit in my small backpack where I usually transport my laptop. If the keyboard was any larger it wouldn't fit. I also like that every key is no more than 1u from my fingers. I touch type, but can't often find keys outside of alphanumeric block without looking (on a normal sized keyboard). It can sometimes get frustrating when I need to look down and search for less used keys, which doesn't happen on my planck. But those reasons are specific to me, and it's kind of stupid when people want to change preferences that others have.
This video is a bit old, so I'm wondering how well the zealiostotles hold up compared to things such as box jades and other more modern offerings (including other hack jobs).
weird how much changes in 5 years.
This is quite a great sounding board, will keep an eye out for those switches
I really like the dish key caps. So many of the keyboard from the 70's-80's had that style it is a great retro feel.
love your keyboard and keyswitch reviews - :)
In general I use smaller keyboards for more mousing space, last time I measured my mousing area it was about 21 freedom units or 53cm. I've owned a pok3r and while I love mine, have since moved to tkl boards for schoolwork. Good review
This is the second video I've seen from you where you say the floating key design "offers less protection", and I just can't imagine what you're doing with your keyboard where it's getting hit from the side with enough force to damage the switches. Personally I prefer floating designs because they're easier for me to clean, but both styles are equally aesthetic imo.
Very interesting, they've made it onto a point of interest for me.
Nevermind, seems difficult to get ahold of.
I think I will continue to look at box royals and jades.
I love how much you like large keyboards
Once you get used to whatever key combos you need to access stuff like the function row or the arrow cluster, 60% boards can actually be pretty intuitive, and takes up less space so your desk feels less cramped.
And the there's pandastotles.....
No.
The snobbery will be maxed out if we go there.
those switches sound amazing ! they sound a lot like box navies if they were higher pitched
The keyword is "mine." A desk that is. Some of us have those pull-out keyboard shelves in their desks, and they are usually small.
How would you say these compare to SKCM Blue, Chyros?
Those SA caps are sexy as hell. I don't know why the hell large font SA caps aren't more common.
My thoughts on 60% layout… The F1-F12 keys are basically relics from the DOS era when there was no mouse and computers had to be entirely controlled through the keyboard. Now we have drop-down menus. Likewise, a number pad on each and every keyboard made sense back when the major reason for PCs to exist was to run Lotus 1-2-3. (If you do a lot of number entry today, USB accessory numeric keypads are readily available.) Just look at the keyboard that shipped with the original Macintosh in 1984! It was optimized for touch-typing, for entering text, not doing all these other miscellaneous computer-management functions. That's the 60% keyboard philosophy.
What seems to be a pain point for many is the navigation cluster and particularly the arrow or cursor keys. This is why 65% layouts (such as the WhiteFox and ClueBoard) continue to proliferate, which are basically 60% layouts with a few extra nav keys awkwardly scrunched in to the right side. Also, lately I've noticed true 60% layouts that shoehorn the four arrow keys into the lower-right corner at the cost of compromising the bottom-row modifiers and often the right-shift key as well. I do think a better solution to this conundrum is possible. I'll let you know when I have a working prototype!
Any luck with the prototype?
i love when games use the f keys for loadouts or switching seats like in battlefield. have fun doing that with a 60%
@@masterninjahh The F-keys are usually bound to the number row + a modifier key on these kinds of keyboards. You're not actually sacrificing input options with smaller layouts. You just have to bind the more rarely-used keys to layers or modifiers.
I believe non-blacklit Pok3r's PBT caps are not dyesub but laser etched. It's yellow-gold legend on deep grey keycap. There's no way to dye a lighter color on darker color keycap.
it has a really really crisp click !
Dam, those key caps look amazing. Almost remind me a typewriter
5:39 Idk why I find that relaxing
Nah its boney and ass
Really nice for typing
I'm saving this video to test my new subwoofer when it arrives.
I'm surprised there's a difference between "zeliostotles" and "gaterostotles". I was under the impression that Zelios just used Gateron housings with a custom molded slider.
tyrgoossens the only difference is $$$ spent, i tried them side-by-side and couldn't tell the difference
tyrgoossens zealios actually have a clear bottoms housing, while gaterons have a milky or black one.
Somehow in my mind I thought it was just a difference in plastics but Deskthority wiki confirms it: Zealpc uses custom molds for slider and the bottom housing. I do wonder if there's actually a design difference or they just neede a new mold because of some differences in how the clear plastic behaves (we do know it melts a lot faster).
Zealios use a superior housing that increase the smoothness and reduce the wobble.
Zealiostotles with the Cherry nylon tops would probably sound really good. They're not very sustainable switches to make though due to classic Zeal Tax, finding some vintage Cherry switches, and finding the Aristotle stems required to make the magic happen. T1 bottoms or Cherry Blue bottoms would probably work well though.
Nice vid mate
smaller keyboards let you put the mouse closer, which is more ergo
Very intriguing switches! Thanks for the review on these - I've been curious about them for some time.
Also curious: what aftermarket keysets are you interested in? I'm sure you're right about them being pricy - I'd just like to pick your brain about aesthetic taste. ;)
I loved the aesthetic of those keycaps so much I literally ordered the last set of black and white ones from mechanicalkeyboards.com and installed them on my tenkeyless Cooler Master keyboard with MX brown switches
Fucking love SA keycaps.
Good voice as always
Please do review of KBParadise V60 or V80 with matias click switches.
Thanks
Your voice is amazing!
I thought you disliked the high pitched click of mx blues? The zealiostotles seem even higher pitched. They get right under my skin.
The problem with the MX blue click (and this is inherent to the design) is that it isn't a very well-defined click, but rather a quite grainy and rattly click because of the way the click jacket can bounce off of the bottom of the switch housing. You don't really notice it until you try clicky Alps, buckling springs, beam springs, or even the modern Kailh BOX Whites or Kailh Speed Bronzes.
I agree. When he showed the difference between blue and this one at 5:30, I thought that the blue MX keyboard sounded MUCH better. To the extent where I consider the reviewed keyboard to be defective. There is no way I could be using that keyboard for a longer time, I can't stand the sound. I mostly use blue MX switches so I guess it makes sense.
It's not about how high or low pitched it is, it's about how plasticy and rattly MX Blues sound.
@@trdi To each their own. But to most people that try better designed clicky switches, MX Blues just sound like nasty rattling plastic scratching against other plastic. These are defined clicks, exactly like Chryosran describes them, "full". Personally not my favorite clicky sounding switch though, Box Pinks, Box Jades, and Box Navies sound amazing to me, I just love the sound of an actually metal click bar.
60% is good for gaming. I aim with arm movements instead of the more common wrist movements. I also just normally move the mouse with my whole arm as it’s better for your wrists and I work on a computer all day.
Why people like smaller keyboards:
-Mouse closer
-Don't have to move your fingers as far when keys are on a FN layer
-Portability
-Lower cost
-More options when desk space is limited
If you can afford a large keyboard and sit at one desk a full size is fine, but if you're on a budget and you want something that will work in any situation, a small board may serve you better.
I for one bought the Ajazz you reviewed (in red, not blue, but same KB other than that) purely because it fits in my laptop case
I adore this one.
It allows the hand for the mouse to be close to the body so a small keyboard is more ergonomic. Please try Cherry MX Clear Stem in Kailh Speed Copper Housing - whopping tactility!
I wonder what that slider would sound like in a POM housing like novelkeys cream
As a pen tablet user, 60% form factor is important to me since i needed a space for both mouse and pen tablet. However i wish i have a separate dedicated numpad keys since i do a lot of Excel too.
I value key feel when gaming a lot... Maybe that's just me then.
I game on cherry greens...
Yeah and mx greens are scratchy
I hope you can review some clicky kailh box switches soon.
I realize this video is quite old now, but what is the weighting of these switches?
No homo, but you have the most relaxing voice I've ever heard. I could listen to you while I fall asleep. No offense.
cherry lovers at the uk meet-ups.... okey, you guys are nuts...
Hmm, i dont really understand your issue with the floating switch design, yes the rim would protect the switches but if you were to hit the keyboard, its unlikely the thing you are hitting the keyboard with will: be thinner than the space between the keycap and the plate, will hit right it between the keycaps and plate, damage the switches really. For mx style switches its only a matter of looks in my opinion
poker is a great keyboard brand. i love zealio switches theyre amazing. im scared that i like them more then my cherry clear board
Kalih switches next? Particularly the Bronze/Thick Gold switches.
I really hate how they do not have full key as an option! What up with a typist these day!
9971 subscribers!! Are you planning a 10K special?
I don't own a 60% yet. Which will probably change at some point, but I love 65% ones. I got two different one. For me it's a mixture between I like how it looks and I like to have very little on my desk (expect what is necessary like my cat)
i use a tkl and have a numpad on the right of my mouse
its nicer to have your mouse closer to your left hand when gaming tbh
especially good when you use low dpi
I think living with a non full-size keyboard is fine, but only when you have a macropad that has at least one layer to use as a numpad., like the ELSRA numpad/macropad.
Would you like to review some razer green board? Interesting how it feels after a lot of other clicky switches.
Grell Sutcliff Cherry Blues, but worse somehow. Review over.
Noes. They have different sound and feeling, also a bit modified by firmware.
There's two core generations, the Kailh ones which were SHIT and the Greetech/Razer ones which have better quality control as Razer stopped using Kailh for these due to customers complaining about shit quality. I still have a first-gen Razer Green board and one of the switches squeaked ever since I took it out of the box. We didn't return it in time.
defi The ironic thing being that Kailh's QC has gone up by magnitudes since.
I wonder how long those switches will maintain that nice feel. Those plastic 'vampire' teeth must surely wear away over time. Do you know of any MX switch clones that contain a metal click leaf?
The teeth don't appear to cause the feeling. They seem to be there just to hook behind the contacts; that way, the jacket doesn't jump out when you open the switch.
Is there any good tutorial for making these switches? When I put my aristotle slider into cherry housing, it looks, like aristotle slider is too big.
Those look and sound amazing. How do these feel compared to a model F? I've been looking around for a clicky mx switch with sharp tactility for a build
Kinda sounds like Alps SKCM White (and I have a NOS Northgate with whites). I'd love to try these out some day. :D
Do you prefer these Zealiostotles or the Kaihua white box (or kaihua bronze, whatever)?
Have you tried a board with the click-bar style kailhs? They have a a sweeet sound
Yes, I have. I have some stuff in the making with regards to them, keep your eyes peeled!
What switch you prefer for gaming like R6:Siege. And why zealiostotles not for gaming? How about Gatistotles? Thanks!
Are those spherical keycaps? Is there a place to get those for cherry mx style stems?
Edit: Nevermind, I got impatient, you talked about it.
I have a keyboard with plate mounted cherry blues. I like the keyboard a lot, but the switches, meh. Is it possible to mod aristotle stems into the cherry housings without taking the board completely apart?
pikajoos No. Just learn to solder, it isn't that hard trust me.
What springs are in these Zealiostotles?
IIRC the stock ones.
Chyrosran22 the stock Aristotle spring? Or the Zealio spring?
brooklyn The Zealio one.
As someone with a full size who used to love having everything in a key, I recently went to Linux and I use vim from time to time therefore I learned the beauty of not having to move my hands from the alphanumeric cluster.
I kow want to buy a 60% or ortholinear or split keyboard because I put a lot of strain in my right hand whenever I have a big assignment.
So if anyone has any "cheap" ortholinear board to recommend I would love to here about it. Just not super small I really really like numbers I can live without arrow keys and nav cluster though (I ll program vim shortcuts)
Can I use these for gaming? I honestly don't care about any ding noises... Just looking for something special to put into a Lz-cls
I'd love to see a review of Romer G switches.
No you wouldn't. If you want to know what they feel like, just imagine a mushy brown and there you have it.
I actually like them.
Derik Berwald I agree
@@jessicabecause3717they suck assss
Do they rattle like MX Blues?
Yes, the way the MX design works, this is inherent all such switches. However, it doesn't rattle LIKE MX blues, it's much less apparent and honestly not really audible during keyboard use.
Chyrosran22 I have an ergodox build and keep going between using modded orange alps and gatistotles; I've been staring at it for weeks because I can't decide which way to go... Overall I think I like the oranges better, but having a cherry stem is a big plus as far as keycap options go. I literally froze and can't pull the trigger. There's one switch of each type soldered in and I sit there, going click, clack, click, clack.... argh.
Orange Alps are pretty goddamn amazing when they're in good condition. In absolutely every way.
Chyrosran22 ain't they just, I found the good way to restore the poor conditions ones is to remove the coating with very gentle solvent and use dry ptfe coating. The only ones that don't get buttery smooth are where grit got into the switch plate: my suspicion is that this is where the scratchiness in trashed, old, alps comes from. The amazing thing about oranges is that you can dial in the mix of tactile and click to your personal preference by adjusting the angle of the wings. You can make them super tactile and change the sound by adding a drop of solder on the click plate - it's the one switch you can tune to get just right; whatever that's for you. Even stock tactile , they give Topre a run for the money.
Well I have an old keyboard with aristotle key switches. Do you think that is worth doing the mod ?
yes
I need to make a hybrid board.
Hey Chyrosran22, what GB keycaps were you referring to in your video? I'm dying to know which ones you actually like.
Really the only ones I'm interested in are the Space Cadet and Dasher sets.
The idea for the 60% layout to my mind at least is to do all your typing as close to the home row as possible. If you use the programmability of these board to the maximum, you can do all your coding/typing with very little stress to your hands/tendons.
The only issue with the pok3r is the laser etched caps. Would much rather have dye subbed obviously.
Chyro, what keeb is that for your intro? It sounds so nice!
It's my KB-101A.
nice watch mr.
I recently made these switches after watching this video. At first I used 62 g springs but about 50% of the switches would get stuck and not return so I swapped in some 67g and unfortunately they're far too heavy. It kind of ruined them for me :(
There's a recreation of the aristotle stems coming out which is supposed to fix the problem of the original aristotles, as well as being new, look up aristotle 2.0 on reddit if you're interested
@@raptorzoz6251 That sounds great. I wanted to give gatistotles a try but aristotles were getting more expensive since they weren't being created anymore.
would it be be good to use the Aristotle's with MX Blue housings? I've got an old Chicony KB-5192 with blues, and I would consider this mod as I wouldn't mind a little more tactility, than what blues offer. Or should I build a board with the Zealio housings?
Your version would be basically Cherrystotles. They're harder to make, and can feel more inconsistent, but they sound better. Up to you really :) .
Chyrosran22
Thanks for the reply :D in what way would they be harder to make? I thought you'd just take the caps off and slot the Aristotle stems in? Or is there some modification you need to do to the actual housing? thanks :D
No, I show it in the review why. The tolerances are smaller, so it's harder to assemble them.
Chyrosran22 ah I see. The problem is I'm after another mechanical keyboard, and I want something more tactile than what cherry has to offer. I might attempt this mod, the Aristotle switches are fairly cheap I suppose
If you want genuine tactility, no MX-like design will do, in the end. Maybe you should look into some of the alternatives ;) .
Nice vid
Zealiostotles sound actually a lot like White Alps.
I want one. Except i dislike the sound of the spacebar
Would you consider starting to post on Vid.me with all of UA-cam's recent video takedown?
Hah, I was just wondering what you would think about these switches. :p
Now I kind of want to see you try MOD switches, and maybe Jailhouse Blues.
I'm curious to see what he thinks of Jailhouses... although the MOD tactiles might be less than stellar to him since he hates MX-style tactiles.
I really want to sell my AJAZZ AK33 and buy this precious gem! It may be not as loud but it really has a decent and lighter tactile bump to it as compared to Zorro Blue switches. It is even much better than Cherry MX Clear in my honest opinion.
Where can I find key caps like those?
when are we getting a TDXL of this board
Never! It's a loaner - one of the reasons why I avoid loaners nowadays.