At my Karate Dojo, we had a Military and Police Combatives expert come and teach for several years. He did not have any Karate rank, but he was both very skilled and an excellent instructor. My instructor gave him a gray belt, which acts as an honorary rank.
@@cyko4 I know that if you are in the Military, specifically Army and Marine Corps, there is rank for US Army Combatives and MCMAP. He was a police officer tho
@@truevinister6278 us army combatives go by level ,of which I believe there are 3 or 4 , but yes mcmaps does have belt ranks and they are bad A**'s all the way .
Most don't but some do. We are working on an episode for the Marine's martial art system "MCMAP" and they have belt ranks (actual uniform belts which is awesome) but they use military colors, "Tan, Grey, Green, Brown, Black".
I came across this topic since my 9 year old nephew just passed away... he had a white belt, and during his funeral, he was given a tribute as an honorary black belt. thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter. it is enlightening to me how to put into context what the tribute means to me as someone close to the person, as a martial arts practitioner, and to the martial arts community as a whole.
My sincerest condolences to you and your family, that is a terrible loss. I think that was very appropriate, a good way to honor someone and their spirit by using it as a powerful symbol to represent who they were, not where they stood in class. I hope you are doing well and I'm very sorry for your loss.
@@ArtofOneDojo Thank you very much. Your insights gave me the courage to capture the moment, and share the experience. I am blessed to have witnessed an awarding of an honorary black belt. It may mean differently to different people, but to those involved, the honor given is already felt, and the awarding is a validation. It is in this light that I am happy for your black belt. Ossu!
I can understand if someone has passed away, or if they have done a lot for the school and have bad health. An honorary degree in some ways is a great way of showing respect to those who either cannot train or have passed. But I'm on the fence tbh.
As a bjj guy I appreciate the kind remarks towards the belt system. It used to really annoy me when someone outside of the art would say "oh you're a (anything below black) belt? My ten year old son has been a black belt for years." Congratulations on your belt. Your attitude in these videos is without a doubt an asset towards martial arts as a whole.
I agree with every word you said, I'm a mostly judo guy and worked (My A** Off) extremely hard for my rank of 4th Dan ( not that it matters ) and I know BJJ Purple belts who could submission circles around me ANY day, the time and dedication to an art is always something to be admired and honored, but you BJJ guys are on another level. I commend you and thank you all for helping further the martial arts!(edited for bad spelling and belt color blue to purple )
Thank you, I really appreciate that. Anyone who makes that remark about belts also usually isn't aware that a BJJ purple belt is typically the equivalent of a black belt in many other arts.
I had students leave and go to a local belt mill because we dont give rank based on time but instead in knowledge and ability. My school trains in old school taekwondo that is focussed on practicality (Head punches, takedowns, joint locks are all allowed and encouraged) mixed with submission grappling. I have 5th gup ( about half way to black belt) students that run circles around many other TKD black belts. I think BJJ has it right in that every rank should be earned and set a precedent for standards in that rank if your system chooses to use rank. It used to be that way in all karate and tkd schools but its not so much now a days. Either get rid of belt rank or have it mean something.
@@cyko4 I respectfully disagree it depends on the school art, and student (and the drive that they have), a lot of judoka spend alot of time with a focus on tachi waza but ne waza is just as important. i also disagree that a purple belt is the "typically" equivalent to a shodan or more (form the art of the dojos comment ). going back to school and the ideology/ focus a small judo club cant compete with a Team Force, SJSU or Cahills, same as a small BJJ school vs a big name Gracie, or even someone who had gotten rank form Mr Parker or someone got has an Speakman 5.0 rank. from big to small schools and arts, rank does not matter but is a reflection on you and where you are/ were you worked hard for your judo Yodan yet Marti Malloy was a Sandan in 2012 (not sure what her rank is now) but it makes you think what the focus the art/sport or rank and like BJJ judo had really high standards in a top school. on one hand at yodan in judo you should be able to handle a blue belt it took Travis Stevans 19 months to go from white belt to black belt in BJJ under Renzo Gracie and he holds a Godan now (2020) I think is fair to say a blue belt in BJJ is not = to a shodan much les a yodan (baring, injuries age, etc.)
OK, I completely agree. If you got an HONORABLY black belt, you need to be hip about your position. It's a very conditional rank circumstance that deflates very quickly outside of that earned sphere. If you teach under the idea that you're a black belt and perpetuate such, be prepared to get dragged. As you've stated, if someone died, or is maimed or crippled in a way that prevented them from going further, then the honorary black belt/sash makes sense. You're still one of the people. You were dealt a terrible hand and you were striving prior... So long as HONORARY is put there. If you are a student that teaches a class in leui of the teacher, and your skills fit the bill, I could say maybe some sort of symbol of junior instructor. But I wouldn't do a provisional black belt for EXACTLY the reason stated... Some folks get their ego stroked when they think they got the gold merely because they got a little earned responsibility. Who tf cares what a kids mom think. Explain with the same energy that said student is a provisional teacher and what they are teaching has your stamp of approval and valid. If they parent feels a kind of way, too bad, so sad. But your honor and dignity is on the line and "promoting" folks who will get their ego stroked enough to act funky does a disservice on you. I disagree with the belts means nothing, in that said rank carries. If it doesn't constitute your skill level, then there needs to be some side eye to said harboring of the belt. Because we have enough mcDojos and Charlatans walking around with yellow belt skill level but walking around with a black belt and claiming such.
I was working on my Kill Face. While doing it, i stepped forward and accidently bent a toe nail back. All i remember is waking up on the floor and the mirror no longer works. I think i did it successfully, but just that one time.
Rank is by necessity a combination of ability and knowledge. Higher ranks are dependent on depth of knowledge and precise skill. If you want to honor someone, do so, but not with rank. I have a plaque on my wall now which recognizes years of discipline, decidation, service, and instruction. Give awards, not rank. Fighting spirit, dedicated instructor, rookie of the year, etc. As for posthumous awards, shogo titles are best here, renshi, kyoshi, hanshi. Certainly people work hard to gain these in life, but if you wish to honor a fallen sensei, honorifics not rank, is the way to do it.
If you already come from an extensive martial arts background then I guess it isn't so bad, just as long the person who was awarded it doesn't start promoting others in that system and makes it known to others that it is an honorary rank. In the 1990s Chuck Norris was awarded an 8th degree black belt in taekwondo from some organization. The thing is, Norris never trained in taekwondo. Although he trained in several systems, he only held black belts in Tang Soo Do-Moo Duk Kwan and Judo. (He wasn't awarded his Jiu-Jitsu black belt till after 2000.) There was a guy who trained at my instructor's school, but had to drop out prior to myself and my brother joining in the early 1990s. The reason was because he was run over by a car. He ended up in a coma for quite some time, but eventually came out of it. In the early 2000s he came back to training again, but unfortunately his motor skills were shot. At the time he dropped out he had already earned his red belt which was before black. Unfortunately every time he tested he wasn't able to perform most of the requirements which resulted in him failing. He knew the material he just wanted able to physically apply it. At a certain point my instructor asked me if he should consider awarding him a honorary black belt. I don't recall if he ever did or not. But if the person has no martial arts background what so ever then no. There's a school in Los Angeles who in the 1990s awarded Ronald Reagan a black belt. I was also like "what was the point of that?" Other than getting publicity. As far as I know Reagan never talked about. It was just a silly gesture and he probably threw the belt and certificate in a box somewhere and never gave it a second thought. While in office President Theodore Roosevelt trained in judo and made it to brown belt. A few years ago some judo group awarded him an honorary 8th degree black belt. In his case even though he had been dead for decades at least he trained during his lifetime and they let it be known that the rank was honorary.
I have a black belt from a WTF Taekwondo school that was previously a tang soo do school. This school kept the first three forms they taught and our blackbelt form the same as tang soo do. I read Chuck Norris's autobiography a few years ago and the form he had to pass for his tang soo do belt was the same one that was part of my tkd blackbelt test. My point is there is too little difference between these two Korean martial arts to make Chuck getting a honorary tkd belt an issue. Chuck was a multi-time USA Karate champ and his movies did a lot to promote martial arts. There is no doubt that Mr Norris is the real deal.
I see some schools reproducing some sort of nobility within the school with a whole hierarchy. To me I think it is detrimental to the art. It deters from what's important. What really matters are ranks. Did you achieve the curriculum, are you proficient. It doesn't have to be perfect, but you have to aim for perfection. I come from SKI and as a kid in the 80s-90s, we almost feared the black belt exam, we knew we had to put on the effort, it was something to be earned. I think there is value to that. :)
I think I have a unique perspective. I refused an honorary black belt, but accepted an honorary red ( it didn't feel right accepting a black belt I didn't test for). As far as I know my instructor has only awarded one honorary black belt. The recipient had sustained a severe injury, but he had shown many years of dedication to the martial arts, including two other black belts, and years of dedication to our particular art. He was absolutely deserving of the honor.
And I think that's totally valid and why it should be based on individual situation. Good on you for not accepting something you didn't feel right about.
@@ArtofOneDojo the honorary red belt came from a small TKD School I trained at when I could no longer afford the long commute to the Kempo School I had earned my green from. After I had helped test his senior student for his first degree black belt by being his sparring opponent. The head instructor approached me and said " the belt you're wearing does not accurately reflect your skill within our system. Please accept this honorary black belt." After I told him that I was uncomfortable accepting that rank without testing. He approached me after the next class about a week liter ( this time in front of the young students) and said " in our system green is a relatively low rank. I think it's confusing the students. please wear this red belt in class from now on." at that point I could not refuse.
As a student and instructor, all a belt really is is a physical marker to let us know where they are in the art. Which form/kata they are on, what they have accomplished thus far.
First of all, congrats on your honorary black belt. Over the last couple of years you've given a lot to the martial arts community with The Art of One Dojo channel. Brought a lot of positivity to the martial arts community. You've definitely influenced me to be a better martial artist regardless of the style/system I train in no matter what belt I wear around my waist
This means a lot to hear and I sincerely appreciate this comment. You've been subbed to us for quite some time, one of our originals I believe, and I can't appreciate you enough in what you've done to support and participate here. I thank you for making all the hard work worth it :)
@@ArtofOneDojo 100%. Stumbled onto this channel looking up Cobra Kai Karate one day. Much respect for your honest look at the martial arts. Find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say on the subject. Especially seeing you've researched subjects you know and subjects you don't know. Total respect for your work
Sean Connery was awarded an honorary black belt from Mas Oyoma after being trained for "You only live twice" in Japan. I gave one to a Mayor for opening a Tae Kwon Do school I once belonged to. It's a token of gratitude rather than rank. I personally don't care about rank, a belt is good for tying up your pants. Just ask Mr Miyagi
when i was younger ( iam still young tho ) i atended a form seminar, basically we practiced all the forms from white bell to the last dan, and perfected them, and i met this really old master, that to my eyes he knew everything, afterwards i learned he died, and my teacher told me that he was given the 10th dan postmortem, and that actually inspired me to keep practicing, and i tell my student ( i only have one.. yes... iam not very good at marketing and my other student moved away ) this story to inspire her as it did me. ao i dont think post mortem honorary ranks are a bad thing.
I put this as a comment but repeating it as it's own point because I feel its important- I think it depends on why it was issued, for example imagine being a BJJ white belt competing in your first tournament and seeing Josh Barnett standing across the mat from you( a man who has heel hooked Gracies). The reason why Barnett was given a honorary black belt was to allow him to complete against those of a similar ability in tournaments as his catch wrestling and judo background meant knowledge and ability wise he was up there with most black belts.
In our system of Shotokan we do use honorary black belts. However it's when you are a second degree brown belt and fill your black belt test. You get a brown belt with a black stripe known as a show Don Ho. That is our honorary black belt mind you you have to train in the system for years.
In my day, Most martial art schools gave honorary black belts because the receiver was at that level, at that school. So yes, originally, your honorary black belt meant you could run and open up a school under the one that gave you the belt. If people, without, the rank wanted to "open up a school or just lie about their rank", it was more common to just buy a black belt or (the classic method) just die their current belt, black. My grandfather received his black belt as a gift because as a brown belt, he was able to beat most of the black belts in his shukokai school under its founder. When one of the black belt handed my grandfather his blackbelt, we were told it was a japanese custom, if a warrior fought a superior fighter and lost, he/she would give the other the sign of their rank. I was given an honorary black belt in kyokushinkai because of my ability to fight and teach. The instructor of the school and his teacher thought it confusing for their students, to have me coming in as a white belt off the streets and .... so they gave me an honorary black belt. At the time, I have been teaching chinese martial arts for over 20 years. Before that, I had studied: 1. Goju for over 5 years as a teen (was never tested -- I had attitude problems, like to fight, and be disobedient); 2. kyokushinkai for over 3 years (was never tested - same problem); and 3. Shotokan for about 3 to 4 years while in my 30s (I did not want to spend the money). Now today, I have no idea what schools are doing, since business is the most important thing today. And if we look at your criticism of it (the receiver can go run and open up a school and have papers to back it up) .. in my day, people who wanted to open up a school .. would just buy a black belt or - the classic: they would die their current belt black - My point here is that, your critisizm is NOT a good concern. The opposite: I new a kid (he was from age 16 to 20) that had the equivalent of a black belt in taekwondo, KooSool, and a kungfu style. He was also a professional dancer and actor. He would buy a karate kata and travel all over the USA Europe and the middle east to compete in tournaments as a white or some intermediate belt (he liked the easy win). I was at a karate tournament that discovered the problem so the competing schools fought to make my friend loose his trophy (they argued how unfair it was, especially when he competed as a white belt). To make a long story short, the kid's justification was: in the karate school where he learned the kata, he had only been a white belt). My POINT: Sick with the idea that a "belt"/sash/other rank is just that .... no more and no unless! Because that rank and a dollar might get us a cup of coffee so we can sit and talk for awhile.
Congratulations! In the context that you received it makes sense seeing that you are an instructor and are promoting your own art. You understand what it represents.
My kids are 1 Dan in Tae Kwon Do and the very high ranks are honorary. When it comes to academic degrees, the diploma is customarily issued either as "Confer Upon John Doe the Honorary Degree of Doctor of Philosophy" or "Confer Upon John Doe the Degree of Doctor of Philosophy Honorus Causa." Additionally, universities are extremely aware of the people to whom they issue degrees (usually famous people) and have stripped honorary degrees when recipients have shown themselves counter to the ethics and morals held by the school. In a resume, the honorary degree is usually not listed (because the honoree already has an impressive background) or, if it is, has "(hon)" after it (e.g., "PhD (hon)").
This topic is really complex, and you approached it well. My short version: Honorary levels should be only given to actual practitioners who can actually stand up to that given rank. Other people should be given some other kind of merit like a medal or certificate.
I'm pretty happy that the martial art style I practice in does not have any uniforms, belts, bowing, rituals, etc... But, it's kind of fun to think: How would I arrange a belt system in a style that does not traditionally use a belt system? Progress in the art I practice is really non-linear. It's a giant, multi-dimensional mess.
@@gingercore69 I practice Chen Style Taijiquan in Chen Yu's lineage. Here's a small clip of Chen Yu showcasing one of the forms: ua-cam.com/video/xNHwlJ66z0o/v-deo.html Many associate Tai Chi being practiced slowly, but at a later stage, you can then express what you've developed as Chen Yu does in the video.
Happy for you and your honorary belt Mr. Dan. I think it’s fine to talk about belts in general and as long as something is clearly honorary, I believe there shouldn’t be a problem. Hadn’t considered your “let me open a dojo and tout this (honorary) belt” example. As always, the wearer/earner knows what effort was put in and what it means to them, or, in your case, what the positive intention was behind it. Other people will interpret that person’s belt how they will, whether honorary or not.
Good topic with lots of grey areas. If your sensei/sifu has enough respect for an individual, that your sensei is compelled to honor that individual, the sensei is telling the students of that dojo to respect that individual as the sensei does. No skill is implied in the suggestion. Think of the soke and the soke-dai relationship. If the soke passes the soke-dai becomes the soke. Many times the soke-dai never training in the art...most of the time being the soke's wife. The honorary black belt seems more like a title than a rank if that makes sense. You can be deemed a certain title in your school...it does not mean you carry any rank. Respect should still be granted regardless of rank...IMHO. Congratz on your honorary black belt...I agree, it was earned.
Great Video! I really appreciated your comments about the BJJ belting system. I have been training BJJ for over 8 years and I will be getting my black belt in BJJ next month. I train 7 days a week and sometimes 2-3 classes a day. I definitely feel like I will have earned my black belt when it comes. Probably one of the toughest things I have ever done in my life.
I was told a couple of origin stories about the belt ranking system in Karate. One was you started with a white belt and over time from training and grime, it became blackened. This then signified your dedication and training. Another story was that you started as a white belt and then over years of dedication and practice your Sensei just gave you your black belt with no other color in-between. In Shotokan Karate the belt system was taken from Judo. Traditional Japanese arts were taught in a very militaristic style to teach large group of people and the military approach worked best. Hence giving rank to the belt system, and this was very prevalent in my Taekwondo school. Black belts were like an officer's rank. You had to show your respect by bowing when a black belt entered the training area. Kind of like saluting. Having a military background myself I liked the concept. I feel that in traditional martial arts the belt system is a great tool to help students achieve a goal and gives them something to work towards. Unfortunately Mcdojo's have used this system to their advantage to sell rank. This has given the belt system a bad reputation and a stigma in some martial art communities eyes as something not to take seriously. This is why I feel accreditation is important for different martial arts schools similar to accreditation is in higher learning. Kind of like you earned a degree at Harvard instead of a degree at Nebraska U. This could be a poor example as I am from Canada.
The white belt turning black was a myth. The first actual belt was the black belt. Jigoro Kano took inspiration from Japanese swimming teams in which the best swimmers were award a black band to wear around their arm. He liked the concept so he awarded a black belt to students he felt were proficient. So it was no belt or black belt. Over time he began to expand it and yes, then Shotokan adopted it and soon it began to spread. We did a video a couple of years ago about the belt histories. ua-cam.com/video/KGRGzyWBArY/v-deo.html
hey Master Dan, i think the reason they give you a Dan One black belt is because of the videos that you have made in the last 3 years now, and in the process of making this videos you have help to educate people on the history and backround of Martial Arts in all of their size and shape and country of origin. from my point of view i think that you have earned that black belt.
Thank you, I really appreciate that comment. I have done some research into this school and there are a lot of questions that come with it and I fear that maybe the person was hoping for some publicity. I'm not sure, but I really do appreciate your comments, we're always trying to make better videos!
@@ArtofOneDojo i do not all ways comment but when i do, i only write the best and with the best intentions :D much respect and love from israel :) bro fist 🤜
Great example Mr Dan of a decent conversation with some context, that hopefully encourages some critical thinking. You DESERVE a Honorary Black Belt. I believe that ANYONE can be presented with a Honorary Black Belt. Even IF they have not studied the martial art style that is awarding it, with the following caveats. 1) That the recipient receives the said artefacts (belt & certificate), that CLEARY displays the word “Honorary”. Totally agree with you sentiment about ambiguity and miscommunication. 2) The receiving person has conducted themselves / activities / duties / skills (martial or not) / time and commitment to progressing the establishment of community within their sphere of influence. With particular emphasis on Respect and Honour they bring to said community.
Congratulations on your honorary black belt awarded, by that system due to your contribution to the martial arts education overall! I am definitely in agreement that an honorary rank, should be awarded to an individual, that is actually a dedicated practitioner of that particular art! However as you mentioned Sensei Dan, so long as they specify on the certificate, that is solely an award and not actual rank and reflection of the person's ability in that art. I do agree also that an actual award plaque, or a sculpted belt to symbolise that honorary rank, rather than the actual belt and certificate. Giving out honorary black belts and certificates, can indeed and justifiably infuriate practitioners who have actually dedicated their lives of training, to that particular martial art. Only to then have an outsider for whatever reason, to also and equally be awarded that exact rank, without having done anything to truly earn it. Honorary university degrees to me personally, are also a ludicrous as yet again those who have done the required, academic years of studies to qualify for it, then become mocked indirectly by those simply awarded to them, due to their celebrity or political calibre, social status. Lastly Sensei Dan with all due respect I am also not a fan of the posthumous, black belts awards. The late Shihan Bobby Lowe, who was Sosai Oyama Masutatsu's first student to open a Kyokushinkaikan Karate dojo, outside of Japan in his native, Honolulu, Hawaii, was awarded his 10th dan black belt, back in 2012 or 2013 when he had passed away, due to his years of dedication, contribution and servitude to Kyokushin Karate. This in my opinion should have been awarded to him, while he was still alive, what is the point to award such a great honour, to the family of the person, once they are no longer here with us. I hope all is well with you and your family and friends, there in the USA. Greetings as always, from Melbourne, Australia 🇲🇽🇦🇺🥋🙏😊✌👍🤟Osu!
What happens with arts where higher grades are not awarded thru exams but the contribution you made to the art. For example in Judo, to get a rank above 6th degree there is not a physical/technical exam in itself but something more related to your knowledge. You don’t need to now a new technique or kata, but you need to have a deep knowledge of the art, write an essay or get proposed by the organization itself. We have the case of Vladimir Putin he was awarded with an 8th Dan for his contribution to Judo, was that fair? Did he contribute more than others and have a deeper knowledge? Many questions around those matters.
That's why I wanted to separate that at the beginning. There is a big different in receiving rank because of time, grade, and effort you put back into the art, and say someone who made a donation, or did a charity event.
Good video. I think you have taken the belt in the spirit that was meant. Your channel brings awareness and raises the profile of martial arts so its deserved. Also you are a practitioner of a martial art so the commitment aspect cant be questioned.
Hi. I can relate to this video because of this falowing story. In general school i started to practice Kyokushin. My teacher was an old man around 60 years old. Later i found out he was actualy a PE teacher and the head coach of young national judo team. He had an accident and he was badly woonded. Lost an eye, leg muscle pierced by a metal rod. He atarted to teach Kyokushin classes for students and in 2 years time we were winning alot of medals in competitions. He put our city on the national kyokushin map. We were also members of kyo national team for 3 years. Eventualy he received a 1Dan honorary belt from the Federation. In kyokushin if you receive an honorary belt, you can no longer take exams for next levels. Did this man deserve to receive the belt? Absolutley! Was he physical fit to take the 1dan exam? NO, kyokushin exams are brutal. If anyone actualy reads this, I am happy my teacher received the belt. Now it's 20 years since i've started kyokushin and still gratefull to him. OSU!
Dan, I was hoping that you would cover "Honorary Black Belts", and at last, you have. I believe that if you have been a black belt for over a decade, in a "related style" to the black belt that's being honorarily bestowed upon you, then it's appropriate for the black belt to be given to you. It's like college credits transferring from one university to the next. I've heard of 8th degree black belts in Judo being given honorary black belts in a Japanese Jujitsu style, and Tang Soo Do black belts being awarded a black belt in Taekwondo. I've also heard of a Hawaiian Kempo black belt receiving an honorary black belt in Kajunkenbo. In many cases, the honorary black belt is not allowed to award belts or stripes to students in that system, but they "are" permitted to teach at "clinics" at the particular school where they are being honored with the black belt.
I think the results you expected in the poll would've been more close to that if all participating were black belts. I personally stood with the 47%, but I am just a green belt in American Kenpo. My instructor most certainly doesn't think belt matters that much and is indifferent. After a decade or so in the art as a black belt, she doesn't care to go beyond first degree, but would be around a 3rd or 4th at this point (and in fact rarely wears her belt while instructing). I think most belts lower than black see it as a goal no matter what, while those who have actually attained it either place a great deal of value on it, or very little.
It's funny that you made this post because I've been training in kenpo karate a little over 3 years as an honorary black belt because I hold a black belt in Taekwondo. So here's my perspective, I was okay with it.... At first. After a little while I felt wrong wearing it simply because I wasn't keeping up with the workouts as the rest of the class, my techniques are sharp and my forms are always good but that's where I shine. Now among other factors i wasn't training as consistently as I would like but I will say that one of those factors was that I really didn't feel like I should be wearing the black belt in kenpo karate so it really made me not want to train because my physical fitness was embarrassing for me to even wear that belt. It honestly became a love hate relationship with it. Let be clear though in saying that just because I had that belt around my waist didn't mean I saw myself as a kenpo karate black belt, I recognized that i was walking in there as a beginner. I also understand that my honorary black belt was just that. Honorary. I honestly couldn't care less about the belt, but I know for some it does hold some weight of validation to their hard work which was something else that was weighing on my mind. I eventually told my instructors that I want an actual purple belt which is my current rank after seeing 2 other of my Taekwondo black belt traded in their honorary black belt for their color belt. I'm totally fine with giving recognition for one achievements but I agree when you said it shouldn't be a black belt but maybe a plaque ot something. I honestly wasn't comfortable with it after a few months and since I struggle with depression/anxiety it just didn't vibe with me well.
At least you took a step back and did some honest consideration about it and then decided to adopt the rank you felt you had earned. That in itself shows a lot of good character. Not everyone would do that.
In Kyokushin Sosai Mas Oyama gave Sean Connery a 3rd degree black belt. Sosai choreographed fight scenes in the Bond movie, "You Only Live Twice." This really angered many black belts at the time.
Great video and congratulations on the honorary belt! I understand what you were getting at, but an honorary doctorate (PhD usually) doesn’t equate to a medical degree (MD), honorary or otherwise. A doctorate is simply the highest academic degree one can achieve in any given field; and so, many people across a wide variety of fields and professions can have “Dr.” in front of their names. Keep up the great work and I can’t wait for the next video!
I like the belt systems as a student. If I'm new to a school and I see a lower rank and a higher rank doing the same movements but they look different (if that makes sense) then I'll know whose footwork, hand shapes, etc. to focus on. Or if I'm drilling something and I can't remember the next part I can easily look to someone with my belt or higher to ask them if they remember (assuming they have a moment). When you're a lower belt this isn't hard, but it becomes more difficult as you go up in rank (curriculum)
My other thought drifts to the 'original' meaning of belts - these were a recent invention. Prior to that, there were no 'belts' handed out, merely something you used to keep your gi tied shut. So, in that context, applying a meaning to something that really has no meaning is what we're left with. If a belt means 'nothing', then an honorary belt still carries no actual meaning besides the honor it was presented with. One can also argue, validly, that high honor should only be given posthumously. (And we can also debate if a 1st degree belt really means much... in my system we consider 1st degrees 'beginners' ..)
I totally agree; these are really good points. As a martial artist, I would never want to get a rank that I didn't earn -- even though I am already a black belt. To me, rank doesn't really mean anything. I would rather be good than have a high Dan number.
Skill v. knowledge. That's a fascinating question. In systems that are more competitive (or more sport oriented), then skill is a far greater importance (IMHO). For systems that are much less competitive, skill is still important, but so is knowledge. Injury, work, kids, etc., can all change one's trajectory in the martial arts. Time can begin to erase knowledge (and how much it does that depends greatly on how deep that was in the first place!). If you're not actively training in an art, can you still claim to be whatever your last rank was? In my school, if someone leaves for a period of time, when they choose to come back, they will be allowed to wear the last belt they earned, but many will either not wear that belt, or will wear a lower ranked belt until they have re-learned their old material. That doesn't mean that someone with a 10 year gap comes back as a black belt... they will have to re-train and re-learn all the material up to their current rank. I know, because this is what I had to do.
There are grapplers outside of BJJ given honorary BBs as a sign of respect for their skill in something like BJJ. I actually think it’s pretty cool when it’s something like that.
I should have done it with one of the long term brown belts that I inherited with my school, He adapted to the new curriculum, he was a stalwart, but he was 20 years older than me, but I never felt that he could turn it on enough to earn his black-belt. When the club folded, I would really like to have given him a BB.
I feel like your right... An honorary black belt can be very confusing to someone who doesn't have knowledge of martial arts. Make it a different color. Or make a fancy plaque or something. I feel that's how McDojo's get started! 😅 If your up for testing for a black belt? And you injure yourself right before testing? And you can't do anything physical anymore. But they know the cariculum front back and inside out. They deserve the rank.
Our Kajukembo organization decided to give "certificates of recognition" to people outside the system. In the certificate we spell out their contributions and that we welcome them into our Ohana and respect and recognize the rank they have in their system as it would be in ours. We've done this for Mr Tommy Burks, Mr Patrick Duffy and few others.
In the method of Kajukenbo that I train in , we don't offer Honorary Black Belt Certificates. The first rank of black is a Student Black Belt then the degrees follow, after Fifth degree it is considered an Honorary . All ranks achieved require a performance prior to being promoted.
My great uncle Jess Lawler was an 8th Dan in Tang Soo Do. He passed away years ago from lung cancer and was buried in his gi He was posthumously promoted to 9th Dan at his funeral and the belt was placed in his casket. He is in the Texas Sports Hall of Fame in Waco Texas. Not physically of course. Lol.
While Posthumous honors are more than acceptable, I have no clue what my own opinion my offer. I will tell you I had my own experience, not only with Honorary titles but dealing with multiple styles. You see, when I was very young (somewhere around six or so), I had to give up TKD do to seizures.I had already had at least a year or so into the practice, and according to him, I was something of a rising star. Once the seizures came on full blast, I was a bit of a wreck. I would sometimes black out and even collapse in the middle of practice, I was losing my coordination and even losing control over my strength. As a way to honor my continued effort, without putting me or others at risk, my sensei would take different colors of tape and wrap a ring around my white belt as a way to symbolize what rank he felt I should have been at. The other teachers there jokingly dubbed it my 'rainbow' belt. When the seizures became too much and I had to leave, so we could live closer to my dad's business (which offered better medical care). When I decided to take martial arts up again, I knew I needed to take up a different style so my previous TKD experience wouldn't taint my effort. It sounds silly here, but I was aiming for a completely fresh start. After feeling tempted to bring the infamous Rainbow Belt out of retirement, I chose to have the words Tae Kwon Do embroidered on it to remind myself that I was starting over from scratch. Since then, I've gotten my fresh start and never regretted it. Perhaps if the Dojo were to have the words 'Honorary Black Belt For Service' embroidered on to Honorary Black Belt, people will accept it easier.
Very insightful perspective and thank you for sharing that. I hope you're doing better these days and I'm happy to hear you found new fulfillment in training.
@@ArtofOneDojo I'm actually doing A LOT better--no seizures in close to a decade--and while I chose not to return to formal competitions, my time away as given me even gratitude for the arts.
You quoted me but missed the letters. To open a medical practice you need to be an MD or DO. Those are very rarely given to anyone that didn’t earn them as an honor, and when they are it is almost always to someone that holds the other degree. A PhD isn’t nearly as well regulated. Bill Cosby claimed his honorary doctorate in education as real and even put the letters after his name in the credits of tv shows. Honorary degrees are given for the exact same reasons. I watched Dr. Rand Paul MD receive an honorary PhD when he spoke at my wife’s medical school graduation. I watched George W Bush receive an honorary PhD when he spoke at a large university graduation. They aren’t claiming those degrees but the schools certainly got attention for giving them out. Well worth it.
Did you leave a reply to another comment with the letters? In the one in I saw it they weren't there but I apologize if you listed them. It is a great point to bring up.
Art of One Dojo I just talked about honorary PhDs. That is a lot different than an honorary MD or DO. Even if someone wants to pretend that an honorary PhD in English Lit is real, nobody gets hurt. Someone pretending to be a physician would be really bad.
Maybe offer a black belt with a gold stripe down the middle to distinguish it from the ranked black belt. I just take exception to this on principle because there are plenty of people who wash out of one system or another. I have a friend who was an associate Black Belt candidate (one step away from 1st degree) in TKD when he quit. My system requires a 2 year testing cycle for first degree in addition to the entire underbelt curriculum which takes another 2 years. That's 4 years minimum before you are awarded your black belt, and generally longer for kids. Traditional martial arts has a 97% attrition rate, lets recognize the 3% and honor them with the black belt, and leave the honorary titles for the other 97%.
Hard to be short winded on this one. I know several accomplished, and recognized Masters. They have backgrounds in Aki-Jujitsu, Tai-Chi, Kung-Fu, Kali, Arnis, and a variety of Karate disciplines from all over Asia. At some point there were over 300 individual forms, sets, and techniques among the group. Because of clever communication, videos, and documentation, they all have been able to perform with expert proficiency each other's disciples. Including philosophy and scenario awareness of regional laws. Thusly they all justify ranking each other at high degrees, or allowing each other to teach the styles. I look at this like as how the FMAs were so prolific and effective at protecting the islanders or villagers. Styles were taught with weapons then open hand, in that order. Under a short amount of time, and proved to be devastating to occupying forces. I also think an compare something like Hung-Gar. Where extended forms were taught, so that the discipline could be handed down within villages. But the founding GM would travel throughout to teach the art to many. So, yes, take the black belt. They probably know your story, how you work for your rankings in the past. And you-yourself admitted that the Black Belt is an acknowledgement that you have mastered the basics. I'm sure their style shares many of the same or similar movements as your own, along with the intent and philosophies.
I accepted and thanked them, but unfortunately as I did further research they appear to not be a legitimate school, and actually fraudulent. There is no website, not footage, or even photos available so there are many red flags with this one. In any case it still brought the topic to light.
It needs to be clear that the award is honorary only. The certificate should state it also. I like the idea of using something outside the ranking system as a way to honour achievements, support ect within the organisation is a great way to recognise non skill based honours. Also, official belt awards should be based on the following: 1) physical skill in the system you are training in. I am an ungraded white belt in Kyokushin working hard to achieve my first belt in December, as are my children. 2) mindset. You should not only demonstrate the skills of the awarded rank, but also the discipline, and mindfulness that goes with that rank.
I got one informally from a longtime training partner of mine for Luta Livre as recognition for my long time training and winning the State Wushu championship
When does Kenpo actually run out of Curriculum? I don't think form 6 is taught until very advanced stages. An old teacher told me that eventually belt belt degrees are earned by teaching. And here is an interesting story, I earned a 1st degree brown belt in Kenpo but moved away and never got a chance to test for black belt. Some years later I found another Kenpo school and started going. I told the teacher I once earned a Brown Belt years ago and was not sure about my skill but he honored it anyway. Well this style of Kenpo was different and this teacher taught different. I didn't know alot of material and a lot of my basics needed refined. Eventually he pulled me aside and said its obvious Ive been trained in Kenpo but thought I was more of a purple belt level. I was totally fine with it.
It depends on which manuals a person is learning from. Originally, with the 32 technique manuals (32 per belt) the curriculum ran out at 3rd Degree. The main techniques run out and then you go back and learn extensions to Orange, Purple, Blue, and Green techs, plus Forms Five and Six. Some schools will continue with Form 7 and 8 but those are harder to come by and most schools DON'T teach them. If you are learning from the 24 technique manual, it ends around 4th degree, and if you went through the 16 technique manual (which is the system that was in place when I started) you learn all the base techniques by First Black belt and then you learn a set of 24 extensions and a form for each additional. After the curriculum runs out, promotions come from time and grade and teaching and contribution back into the system.
I agree that belt/rank doesn't matter. "A Black Belt Isn't Something You Wear, It's Something You Become." With that being said my instructor gave on Honorary Black Belt out once to an adult Student who whole family tested for black belt but he could no longer training because of a serious back injury, he was awarded a plaque that said "honorary black belt" which was nice but we have given out another award that I believe is better then giving out a plaque that says black belt and we have given out a "Black Belt Spirit Award" to those who truly show a Black Belt Mindset (mainly Perseverance and Indomitable Spirit) and I believe if you want to give out an "honorary black belt" then the Black Belt Spirit Award is better in my own opinion. But of course it's left up to the instructor of the art.
Kazushi sakuraba was awarded an honorary black belt in Brazilian Jiu jitsu for his victories over several jiu jitsu black belts and his grappling skills. His main weapon was catch wrestling and had a submission game and held no rank in any martial art at all. Funny enough he admitted in an interview that he never even learned to tie it. I am a purple belt in Brazilian Jiu jitsu and recently just started training judo (no problem starting over at white) and my coach told me I'll rank up fast anyway. I told him promote me straight to brown when he feels I'm ready, I wish to stay a white belt til then. Belts are nice, but the ones serious about training will train regardless of belt color or ranking.
First let me say I like your T-Shirt where can I get one? Now to the subject of Honorary Black Belt. I have been in martial arts for over 54 years and hold the rank of Red Belt with 10 Black stripes on it all awarded to me by one man my Instructor.(I can not be a solid Red Belt until his passing. We cannot hold the same rank as him solid Red Belt)I have trained in a number of systems and have 3 other Black Belts but one of them is an honorary In Kajukembo after training for two years in Okinawa along with my system.I created my own system 30 years later and have given a few people Honorary Black Belts mainly to those who were instrumental in the development of my system.Note I did not say an Organization, because, in an organization anyone can disagree in who you promote or give rank to.NO student of your system has a right to question who you give rank to.When you as an Instructor see that this person deserves rank then there should be no question about it.EVERY student is not fully ready to become a Black Belt but you as the instructor see's much more about that student than your student see. In closing RESPECT the decision of the teacher.When you become a Black Belt you don't want anybody questioning your rank.My students earn their rank and if i give an Honorary Black belt they earned the highest form of a compliment i can give them. I teach for FREE.
I agree with you completely, and i like the idea of not being able to match the rank of your instructor until their passing. That's a great sentiment. As for the shirt...AMAZON!!! www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0764KN6HG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I'm not a huge fan of ranks, I dont feel comfortable claiming rank. I see my black belt as more of an honor because my sensei who I have a lot of faith in gave it to me but outside my dojo that doesn't mean anything unless they know my sensei. I've known a lot of belt chasers and I could happily just train forever if we had no ranks as long as I feel like I'm getting something out of training and progressing. I know that's not universal though. I do think it's pretty weird to be given a rank in something you've never trained a day in your life though. Maybe they could give you a cool sword or something.
how it worked with at least Shotokan or other traditional forms of Karate , judo etc is , once you of course have got to at least 4 th dan , you are tested by the national karate board , in my case in uk , it would be KUGB . back in around 2007 , our Sensei was awarded his 5th Dan by the Chief instructor at a normal kyu Grading session as to honour him for the work he's put into the club , level of teaching , organising events , tournaments , gradings etc . It didn't make him big headed in any way , as we were all proud for him that he was acknowledged for what he's done . its certainly not an honorary grade for writing a book or releasing a film or any suchlike . As you know , a lot of people think a black belt is the ultimate sign of expertise in a martial art , but its really just a sign to others learning that you have got to the stage where the basics are learnt and you can go and learn how to use it effectively and to teach others . It's fairly common in japan at least that to teach , you probably would have to have been training over 10 years and to have got at least 2nd dan or trained as a black belt for at least a few years . some are better at teaching than others , it often helps to teach as it makes you think harder about your own technique and how it's passed on
I was once part of an organization where half of us had to earn our black belt and the other half was given an honorary black belts for other reasons. Ultimately I left organization because I didn’t believe in what they were doing is being right. By the way I had to test for my rank at that organization
I agree that honorary should not be applied to rank because of so many problems that can come up but honoring someone for there contributions is great. One thing I noticed when I was in the service and teaching a 4 H group self defense there were many people who wanted to challenge so if I didn’t have the training I could have been injured even though you didn’t mention this problem in particular I’m sure that this was part of what you meant by getting injured. So if you have a honorary certificate awarded to you make sure that is the way you talk about it if at all.
I think you're missing it is common in many arts to require a 3rd degree black belt in order to be an instructor. Also if the organization is alive enough to bestow the rank upon you it is alive enough to expell you and expose you if you decide to use that rank in any manner unbecoming of that art. I think what are really running into here is the slight difference between our grandfather's idea of respect and our own.
I agree that it should be a separate designation than other traditional belts. It should be meant as an honorary gesture, rather than lending confusion to a rank.
So I was an advance yellow belt in tkd and my master who’s is a 5th Dan said I he felt that I was ready to go on to green belt because it’s been almost a year since I last tested so he had me come into the dojan and test. I was able to demonstrate my knowledge and move on to green belt. When I was a white belt he felt that I picked up the knowledge so well he allowed me to double test for my yellow belt. I am currently an advance green belt more than half way to black
I'm personally ok with any honorary awards so long as the person it's presented to stays honorable. If they try to take that award and claim rank they didn't earn to capitalize on it, it needs to be publicly and vocally rescinded. Meaning, if you're the owner of your school or high up in the organization and you award one of those, it's your responsibility to ensure that person never disrespects your art or organization in any public way. If you're unwilling to follow through on that, you shouldn't give it out. As for the people that feel these honorary belts diminish their own hard work, I have to ask: how? It reminds me of the movie Rudy. The scene where Sean Astin is quitting because he didn't get a spot to dress in the last game, and Charles S. Dutton's character Fortune says "... you hung in there with the best college football players in the land for 2 years. And you're gonna walk out of here with a degree from the University of Notre Dame. In this life you don't have to prove nothin' to nobody but yourself. And after what you've been through, if you haven't done that by now, it ain't gonna never happen." Just because your instructor or organization awards someone an honorary rank, that doesn't take away your years of experience and knowledge that you've earned through your hard work. Check your ego and pride.
I think if someone has an honorary belt they should be respected as someone who has done a lot of good work for a martial art. if they go to another gym they should be respected as someone who has contributed significantly to the community, but not as someone who can fight. if someone who can't fight wearing a belt upsets you... i don't know what to say. maybe a gold belt should be the standard if it's really contentious but i don't see a problem. if a guy can't fight it won't matter until he does, and then it's nobody's problem but his own. me personally, treat them with the same respect as another black belt, because either way, they earned that respect (ideally). i've beaten guys who were a higher bel5 than me before, didn't change the way i talked to them or whether or not i took their advice or coaching seriously.
I feel honorary belts are good, as you stated, they should be noted as honorary, everywhere. In addition, I like the suggestion to simply have a different colored belt.
Hey Dan what's up Mr Burns here I am going for my third don December 5th so I know all about the hard work congratulations on getting your black belt and whatever style it was honorary of course but my question is what if your experience is the background or history of that current style? And would it be warranted for example I'm a fourth degree in shotokan going for my third in taekwondo that's a combination for Tang pseudo and first degree in have keto
@@Docinaplane yeah when I speak into microphone it pretty much says whatever the hell it wants lol. ... If you have all the historical styles of the actual style that you got a black belt in then wouldn't that warrant some sort of credibility to it
@@Docinaplane I agree I just wanted to get your opinion on how you felt about that type of situation even though I have the styles of things to do I don't claim to know things you don't because there's other things in the style that are different which makes its its own thing I just wanted to get your opinion on it that's all
@@zachburns7114 Oh, Ok, If you already know all the things that make up a style, even if it''s not your official style than I agree, an honorary belt in that style make more sense. Interestingly, (I'm a doctor), it is possible for a medical school to give an honorary MD to someone, but only if they already hold a real MD from another school.
You clearly explain it . Some would take a honoring black belt and clam to be of that system and state they earned it. There more issues as well when it come to recognition of rank some take as a black rank.
I'm sorry I'm sure it annoys you greatly when folks don't comment on the video but on something else they would like haha. At least you know I watched the whole video though 🤣
Funny you mentioned BJJ Paul Walker was taking it when he passed away. He was a Blue belt and awarded his Black Belt after his passing. Do you feel this was wrong?
Giant Trophies ...in Martial Arts is another topic. Do champions have a special room...? (I am personally not bothered by what others do.) Sensible Awards Medals, Ribbons, Certificates, Gifts, Free Stuff (is a better option)
Other thing to keep in mind when you speak of honorary degrees, they're not handing out honorary MDs, they're handing out honorary PhDs. A PhD does not allow somebody to practice medicine - the PhD is awarded for published and defended research on some subject. A honorary PhD is given to somebody's whose achievements merit as highly to the academy as published research does.
As you discussed, it's understandable that a school will want to recognise a person's work, even if they aren't particularly adept or knowledgeable. Perhaps the guy has helped organise events for years, everybody knows him and he's become indispensable. However; in every instance I've seen, the recipient of an 'honorary' type promotion will, over time, want to be taken seriously. That's a bad thing for everyone.
Judo's Kodokan is another organization that weeds out phoney blackbelts, saw it happen in my younger judoka days, trained in Shorin-ryu kenpo later and realized that most standing martial arts were run by a multitude of organizations giving ranks, which made it hard to check if a person's claimed rank was genuine!
A couple comments as I've been a college instructor before. Honorary doctorates from universities are created on the model of a PhD and not an MD degree, so no one can take one and try to open a practice as a physician, no. And because they're very clearly honorary no one such as an actor or other celebrity with one can become a university professor just by having an honorary degree. As for honorary black belts it seems very odd some organization you don't even have a connection with awarded you one. I'm not saying you're not worthy of such, it's just odd though. Certainly you do contribute greatly via this channel. Personally, I feel for legit instructors such as yourself an honorary belt is fine: you have the real deal already and the honor is just that: an honor, you can mention it on your website or whatever. Giving someone without dan rank in any style however an honorary black belt, especially if they're an instructor as you mentioned, though is a recipe for disaster.
I trained karate and mma as a young teen I'm now 24 and considering training martial arts again I was just wondering if I found a new school would I start as a white belt or would they test my ability in martial arts ? I have no issues with starting at white again I am just curious
Most likely just white belt but honestly depends on the school’s priorities. I bet you will start at your old rank since belt colors mean absolutely nothing
It really depends on the school. If you go back to the same art, they may let you keep your old belt. But here's the thing, wear a white belt anyway. Don't ask for your old rank, just wear the white belt, it shows courtesy and respect. Sometimes they'll tell you to wear your old rank. If it's a new are you didn't train in, then DEFNITELY go with the white belt.
Thankyou for your reply and your advice like I said Im not fussy about belts in fact i would prefer to start with white instead of my old rank I'll just be thankful to be training martial arts again,I'm I big fan and I really appreciate the channel and the reply. Thank you sensei.
In my opinion, honorary black belts are a good thing, they are an honor. Just like an honorary PHD, it is a way to show appreaciation, a way to show respect for those who have helped the cause (being science or martial arts). Of course, as the name says it, it is honorary, which does not mean the person is an expert in that martial art, it only means that the person awarded has gained the respect of that particular school or martial art
I remember reading about that when Black Belt magazine reprinted the article recently. While filming the James Bond movie You Only Live Twice (1967) on location in Japan, a number of Mas Oyama's senior instructors were hired to work on the martial arts scenes and train Mr. Connery. Oyama and his associates were really impressed with Connery's commitment to his training and thus he was given a honorary black belt in Kyokushin Karate as a result.
Up in my home town, there was a guy who got his gold belt in a style of karate. He opened up his own kickboxing gym. He's a very shitty martial artist and his students seem to always get wrecked in competition. This instructor however has the gift of gab and due to his ability to fund raise he was given an honorary blackbelt and man he promoted the shit out of it and promotes himself and his crazy made up style as a blackbelt.
There are Catch up exams, if you are good in some aspects of strinking, for instance. Some Kickboxing federations can test you for a Black belt if you pass it's advanecd programs, even if you are from another styler, like Muay Thai, Full Contact or Free Stule Karate and even Tae Kwon Do. Nevertheless, you should get into training the specifc art you are awarded the Black Belt, to really insert yourself into it.
Honorary should be reserved for those who started training and for a serious reason couldn’t continue. I’m talking about serious injuries, illnesses or death. Everyone else should be earning it or at least have different colour pattern like blue and black
I'm kind of curious is there something that as martial arts federations could there be some other color reserved for contributions that could be awarded? (Disclaimer I'm not an expert I am a complete novice to this and am still very new to BJJ) also I think there should be instructors belts ( some folks should not get a black belt but may have the knowledge and skill necessary to help other progress to that level doesn't mean they should be a black belt themselves but perhaps there should be something there for those individuals) Like I've never heard of anyone using Grey as a belt color... why not offer a Grey belt to those who contribute to the arts? It's not a belt in the standard color scheme so it'll be obvious.
It's an honest question and I agree with you, a separate color or pattern. There ARE grey belts actually, not common but some system do use them. One is the US Marine Corp, they have a belt system but they are military colors, Tan, Grey, Green, Brown, and Black.
@@ArtofOneDojo Very honest. Also loving the video's while I'm a martial arts noob I love your video's especially the ones that dig into less thought about aspects of the arts. Cheers.
With my personal students . Once they have earned a blackbelt they will always have it , mainly because it is incredibly hard to earn one in my hybrid(Judo, Aikido, ninpo, Taekwondo(working on adding Kenpo)) Martial Art style. Even though we only have 4 belts in my system ( no belt, White, Brown, Red , Black ) but they can be demoted any time before they have reached a black belt including black belt testing day! As far as honorary belts I would definitely need to know someone's martial arts history and background before they received one , I think you should be proud ,but also ask for a certificate that says honorary. Speaking of... How's your judo ,Jiu-Jitsu, training going?
I agree with this completely. It SHOULD be something earned and I feel an honorary award should be something else other than a symbol of rank. Also, the more I look into this particular system that sent me the award....there are a TON of red flags so I'm not going to acknowledge them here. As far as the JuJutsu/Judo...I'm dying to get back to it. Florida is still really bad with infections and a lot of martial arts schools are still closed or limited. My Shihan still has the school closed and we're waiting until it's safer for all of us to be grabbing each other, face to face and hugging in the air again.
@@ArtofOneDojo ,well I'm glad you guys are staying safe, we actually had to take a break from our Kenpo school since we just closed on our first house and finances are crazy right now , I'm hoping to get back soon. Almost ready to test for my yellow in kenpo, it's an exciting step everytime and in every art, I'd love to visit your school some time ( I live in South Carolina) and I have family in the orlando area, also... is the Ed Parker seminar still happening?
At my Karate Dojo, we had a Military and Police Combatives expert come and teach for several years. He did not have any Karate rank, but he was both very skilled and an excellent instructor. My instructor gave him a gray belt, which acts as an honorary rank.
A Grey belt is a perfect honorary rank. It mostly does not exist and still serves its purpose.
I have worked with military and police combative instructors before . it amazes me how many of them don't have belt ranks, and boy they should!
@@cyko4 I know that if you are in the Military, specifically Army and Marine Corps, there is rank for US Army Combatives and MCMAP. He was a police officer tho
@@truevinister6278 us army combatives go by level ,of which I believe there are 3 or 4 , but yes mcmaps does have belt ranks and they are bad A**'s all the way .
Most don't but some do. We are working on an episode for the Marine's martial art system "MCMAP" and they have belt ranks (actual uniform belts which is awesome) but they use military colors, "Tan, Grey, Green, Brown, Black".
I came across this topic since my 9 year old nephew just passed away... he had a white belt, and during his funeral, he was given a tribute as an honorary black belt.
thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter. it is enlightening to me how to put into context what the tribute means to me as someone close to the person, as a martial arts practitioner, and to the martial arts community as a whole.
My sincerest condolences to you and your family, that is a terrible loss. I think that was very appropriate, a good way to honor someone and their spirit by using it as a powerful symbol to represent who they were, not where they stood in class. I hope you are doing well and I'm very sorry for your loss.
@@ArtofOneDojo Thank you very much. Your insights gave me the courage to capture the moment, and share the experience. I am blessed to have witnessed an awarding of an honorary black belt. It may mean differently to different people, but to those involved, the honor given is already felt, and the awarding is a validation. It is in this light that I am happy for your black belt. Ossu!
I can understand if someone has passed away, or if they have done a lot for the school and have bad health. An honorary degree in some ways is a great way of showing respect to those who either cannot train or have passed. But I'm on the fence tbh.
As a bjj guy I appreciate the kind remarks towards the belt system. It used to really annoy me when someone outside of the art would say "oh you're a (anything below black) belt? My ten year old son has been a black belt for years."
Congratulations on your belt. Your attitude in these videos is without a doubt an asset towards martial arts as a whole.
I agree with every word you said, I'm a mostly judo guy and worked (My A** Off) extremely hard for my rank of 4th Dan ( not that it matters ) and I know BJJ Purple belts who could submission circles around me ANY day, the time and dedication to an art is always something to be admired and honored, but you BJJ guys are on another level. I commend you and thank you all for helping further the martial arts!(edited for bad spelling and belt color blue to purple )
Thank you, I really appreciate that. Anyone who makes that remark about belts also usually isn't aware that a BJJ purple belt is typically the equivalent of a black belt in many other arts.
I had students leave and go to a local belt mill because we dont give rank based on time but instead in knowledge and ability. My school trains in old school taekwondo that is focussed on practicality (Head punches, takedowns, joint locks are all allowed and encouraged) mixed with submission grappling. I have 5th gup ( about half way to black belt) students that run circles around many other TKD black belts. I think BJJ has it right in that every rank should be earned and set a precedent for standards in that rank if your system chooses to use rank. It used to be that way in all karate and tkd schools but its not so much now a days. Either get rid of belt rank or have it mean something.
The president of Brazil was awarded an honorary blackbelt in Jiu-Jitsu by Robson Gracie before he was elected
@@cyko4 I respectfully disagree it depends on the school art, and student (and the drive that they have), a lot of judoka spend alot of time with a focus on tachi waza but ne waza is just as important. i also disagree that a purple belt is the "typically" equivalent to a shodan or more (form the art of the dojos comment ). going back to school and the ideology/ focus a small judo club cant compete with a Team Force, SJSU or Cahills, same as a small BJJ school vs a big name Gracie, or even someone who had gotten rank form Mr Parker or someone got has an Speakman 5.0 rank. from big to small schools and arts, rank does not matter but is a reflection on you and where you are/ were you worked hard for your judo Yodan yet Marti Malloy was a Sandan in 2012 (not sure what her rank is now) but it makes you think what the focus the art/sport or rank and like BJJ judo had really high standards in a top school. on one hand at yodan in judo you should be able to handle a blue belt it took Travis Stevans 19 months to go from white belt to black belt in BJJ under Renzo Gracie and he holds a Godan now (2020) I think is fair to say a blue belt in BJJ is not = to a shodan much les a yodan (baring, injuries age, etc.)
OK, I completely agree.
If you got an HONORABLY black belt, you need to be hip about your position. It's a very conditional rank circumstance that deflates very quickly outside of that earned sphere. If you teach under the idea that you're a black belt and perpetuate such, be prepared to get dragged.
As you've stated, if someone died, or is maimed or crippled in a way that prevented them from going further, then the honorary black belt/sash makes sense. You're still one of the people. You were dealt a terrible hand and you were striving prior... So long as HONORARY is put there.
If you are a student that teaches a class in leui of the teacher, and your skills fit the bill, I could say maybe some sort of symbol of junior instructor. But I wouldn't do a provisional black belt for EXACTLY the reason stated... Some folks get their ego stroked when they think they got the gold merely because they got a little earned responsibility. Who tf cares what a kids mom think. Explain with the same energy that said student is a provisional teacher and what they are teaching has your stamp of approval and valid. If they parent feels a kind of way, too bad, so sad. But your honor and dignity is on the line and "promoting" folks who will get their ego stroked enough to act funky does a disservice on you.
I disagree with the belts means nothing, in that said rank carries. If it doesn't constitute your skill level, then there needs to be some side eye to said harboring of the belt. Because we have enough mcDojos and Charlatans walking around with yellow belt skill level but walking around with a black belt and claiming such.
Has Master Ken given you an honorary black belt in "Ameri-Do-Te"
Not yet...I have not yet mastered the Hurticane.
@@ArtofOneDojo I'm working on the Kill Face myself
I was working on my Kill Face. While doing it, i stepped forward and accidently bent a toe nail back. All i remember is waking up on the floor and the mirror no longer works. I think i did it successfully, but just that one time.
Rank is by necessity a combination of ability and knowledge. Higher ranks are dependent on depth of knowledge and precise skill.
If you want to honor someone, do so, but not with rank. I have a plaque on my wall now which recognizes years of discipline, decidation, service, and instruction. Give awards, not rank. Fighting spirit, dedicated instructor, rookie of the year, etc.
As for posthumous awards, shogo titles are best here, renshi, kyoshi, hanshi. Certainly people work hard to gain these in life, but if you wish to honor a fallen sensei, honorifics not rank, is the way to do it.
See, this I'm on board with. Special titles and honors, but not a rank.
If you already come from an extensive martial arts background then I guess it isn't so bad, just as long the person who was awarded it doesn't start promoting others in that system and makes it known to others that it is an honorary rank. In the 1990s Chuck Norris was awarded an 8th degree black belt in taekwondo from some organization. The thing is, Norris never trained in taekwondo. Although he trained in several systems, he only held black belts in Tang Soo Do-Moo Duk Kwan and Judo. (He wasn't awarded his Jiu-Jitsu black belt till after 2000.)
There was a guy who trained at my instructor's school, but had to drop out prior to myself and my brother joining in the early 1990s. The reason was because he was run over by a car. He ended up in a coma for quite some time, but eventually came out of it. In the early 2000s he came back to training again, but unfortunately his motor skills were shot. At the time he dropped out he had already earned his red belt which was before black. Unfortunately every time he tested he wasn't able to perform most of the requirements which resulted in him failing. He knew the material he just wanted able to physically apply it. At a certain point my instructor asked me if he should consider awarding him a honorary black belt. I don't recall if he ever did or not.
But if the person has no martial arts background what so ever then no. There's a school in Los Angeles who in the 1990s awarded Ronald Reagan a black belt. I was also like "what was the point of that?" Other than getting publicity. As far as I know Reagan never talked about. It was just a silly gesture and he probably threw the belt and certificate in a box somewhere and never gave it a second thought.
While in office President Theodore Roosevelt trained in judo and made it to brown belt. A few years ago some judo group awarded him an honorary 8th degree black belt. In his case even though he had been dead for decades at least he trained during his lifetime and they let it be known that the rank was honorary.
I have a black belt from a WTF Taekwondo school that was previously a tang soo do school. This school kept the first three forms they taught and our blackbelt form the same as tang soo do. I read Chuck Norris's autobiography a few years ago and the form he had to pass for his tang soo do belt was the same one that was part of my tkd blackbelt test. My point is there is too little difference between these two Korean martial arts to make Chuck getting a honorary tkd belt an issue. Chuck was a multi-time USA Karate champ and his movies did a lot to promote martial arts. There is no doubt that Mr Norris is the real deal.
I see some schools reproducing some sort of nobility within the school with a whole hierarchy. To me I think it is detrimental to the art. It deters from what's important. What really matters are ranks. Did you achieve the curriculum, are you proficient. It doesn't have to be perfect, but you have to aim for perfection. I come from SKI and as a kid in the 80s-90s, we almost feared the black belt exam, we knew we had to put on the effort, it was something to be earned. I think there is value to that. :)
I think I have a unique perspective. I refused an honorary black belt, but accepted an honorary red ( it didn't feel right accepting a black belt I didn't test for). As far as I know my instructor has only awarded one honorary black belt. The recipient had sustained a severe injury, but he had shown many years of dedication to the martial arts, including two other black belts, and years of dedication to our particular art. He was absolutely deserving of the honor.
And I think that's totally valid and why it should be based on individual situation. Good on you for not accepting something you didn't feel right about.
@@ArtofOneDojo the honorary red belt came from a small TKD School I trained at when I could no longer afford the long commute to the Kempo School I had earned my green from. After I had helped test his senior student for his first degree black belt by being his sparring opponent. The head instructor approached me and said " the belt you're wearing does not accurately reflect your skill within our system. Please accept this honorary black belt." After I told him that I was uncomfortable accepting that rank without testing. He approached me after the next class about a week liter ( this time in front of the young students) and said " in our system green is a relatively low rank. I think it's confusing the students. please wear this red belt in class from now on." at that point I could not refuse.
As a student and instructor, all a belt really is is a physical marker to let us know where they are in the art. Which form/kata they are on, what they have accomplished thus far.
First of all, congrats on your honorary black belt. Over the last couple of years you've given a lot to the martial arts community with The Art of One Dojo channel. Brought a lot of positivity to the martial arts community. You've definitely influenced me to be a better martial artist regardless of the style/system I train in no matter what belt I wear around my waist
This means a lot to hear and I sincerely appreciate this comment. You've been subbed to us for quite some time, one of our originals I believe, and I can't appreciate you enough in what you've done to support and participate here. I thank you for making all the hard work worth it :)
@@ArtofOneDojo 100%. Stumbled onto this channel looking up Cobra Kai Karate one day. Much respect for your honest look at the martial arts. Find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say on the subject. Especially seeing you've researched subjects you know and subjects you don't know. Total respect for your work
Sean Connery was awarded an honorary black belt from Mas Oyoma after being trained for "You only live twice" in Japan. I gave one to a Mayor for opening a Tae Kwon Do school I once belonged to. It's a token of gratitude rather than rank. I personally don't care about rank, a belt is good for tying up your pants. Just ask Mr Miyagi
when i was younger ( iam still young tho ) i atended a form seminar, basically we practiced all the forms from white bell to the last dan, and perfected them, and i met this really old master, that to my eyes he knew everything, afterwards i learned he died, and my teacher told me that he was given the 10th dan postmortem, and that actually inspired me to keep practicing, and i tell my student ( i only have one.. yes... iam not very good at marketing and my other student moved away ) this story to inspire her as it did me.
ao i dont think post mortem honorary ranks are a bad thing.
Congratulations! Another great video. Thanks for talking about this topic.
There's so much to talk about in the martial arts...so many "multi sided" aspects and talking points. I love hearing what all of you have to say :)
I put this as a comment but repeating it as it's own point because I feel its important- I think it depends on why it was issued, for example imagine being a BJJ white belt competing in your first tournament and seeing Josh Barnett standing across the mat from you( a man who has heel hooked Gracies). The reason why Barnett was given a honorary black belt was to allow him to complete against those of a similar ability in tournaments as his catch wrestling and judo background meant knowledge and ability wise he was up there with most black belts.
In our system of Shotokan we do use honorary black belts. However it's when you are a second degree brown belt and fill your black belt test. You get a brown belt with a black stripe known as a show Don Ho. That is our honorary black belt mind you you have to train in the system for years.
Fail. Not fill
In my day, Most martial art schools gave honorary black belts because the receiver was at that level, at that school. So yes, originally, your honorary black belt meant you could run and open up a school under the one that gave you the belt. If people, without, the rank wanted to "open up a school or just lie about their rank", it was more common to just buy a black belt or (the classic method) just die their current belt, black.
My grandfather received his black belt as a gift because as a brown belt, he was able to beat most of the black belts in his shukokai school under its founder. When one of the black belt handed my grandfather his blackbelt, we were told it was a japanese custom, if a warrior fought a superior fighter and lost, he/she would give the other the sign of their rank.
I was given an honorary black belt in kyokushinkai because of my ability to fight and teach. The instructor of the school and his teacher thought it confusing for their students, to have me coming in as a white belt off the streets and .... so they gave me an honorary black belt. At the time, I have been teaching chinese martial arts for over 20 years. Before that, I had studied:
1. Goju for over 5 years as a teen (was never tested -- I had attitude problems, like to fight, and be disobedient);
2. kyokushinkai for over 3 years (was never tested - same problem); and
3. Shotokan for about 3 to 4 years while in my 30s (I did not want to spend the money).
Now today, I have no idea what schools are doing, since business is the most important thing today. And if we look at your criticism of it (the receiver can go run and open up a school and have papers to back it up) .. in my day, people who wanted to open up a school .. would just buy a black belt or - the classic: they would die their current belt black -
My point here is that, your critisizm is NOT a good concern.
The opposite:
I new a kid (he was from age 16 to 20) that had the equivalent of a black belt in taekwondo, KooSool, and a kungfu style. He was also a professional dancer and actor. He would buy a karate kata and travel all over the USA Europe and the middle east to compete in tournaments as a white or some intermediate belt (he liked the easy win).
I was at a karate tournament that discovered the problem so the competing schools fought to make my friend loose his trophy (they argued how unfair it was, especially when he competed as a white belt). To make a long story short, the kid's justification was: in the karate school where he learned the kata, he had only been a white belt).
My POINT: Sick with the idea that a "belt"/sash/other rank is just that .... no more and no unless!
Because that rank and a dollar might get us a cup of coffee so we can sit and talk for awhile.
I agree with all of this completely!
Congratulations! In the context that you received it makes sense seeing that you are an instructor and are promoting your own art. You understand what it represents.
My kids are 1 Dan in Tae Kwon Do and the very high ranks are honorary. When it comes to academic degrees, the diploma is customarily issued either as "Confer Upon John Doe the Honorary Degree of Doctor of Philosophy" or "Confer Upon John Doe the Degree of Doctor of Philosophy Honorus Causa." Additionally, universities are extremely aware of the people to whom they issue degrees (usually famous people) and have stripped honorary degrees when recipients have shown themselves counter to the ethics and morals held by the school. In a resume, the honorary degree is usually not listed (because the honoree already has an impressive background) or, if it is, has "(hon)" after it (e.g., "PhD (hon)").
This topic is really complex, and you approached it well. My short version: Honorary levels should be only given to actual practitioners who can actually stand up to that given rank. Other people should be given some other kind of merit like a medal or certificate.
I'm pretty happy that the martial art style I practice in does not have any uniforms, belts, bowing, rituals, etc...
But, it's kind of fun to think: How would I arrange a belt system in a style that does not traditionally use a belt system?
Progress in the art I practice is really non-linear. It's a giant, multi-dimensional mess.
What art do you practice?
@@gingercore69 I practice Chen Style Taijiquan in Chen Yu's lineage.
Here's a small clip of Chen Yu showcasing one of the forms: ua-cam.com/video/xNHwlJ66z0o/v-deo.html
Many associate Tai Chi being practiced slowly, but at a later stage, you can then express what you've developed as Chen Yu does in the video.
@@ShadowParalyzer ive heard about it! I widh i could practice it, but no one teaches it where i live u.u
Happy for you and your honorary belt Mr. Dan. I think it’s fine to talk about belts in general and as long as something is clearly honorary, I believe there shouldn’t be a problem. Hadn’t considered your “let me open a dojo and tout this (honorary) belt” example. As always, the wearer/earner knows what effort was put in and what it means to them, or, in your case, what the positive intention was behind it. Other people will interpret that person’s belt how they will, whether honorary or not.
Good topic with lots of grey areas. If your sensei/sifu has enough respect for an individual, that your sensei is compelled to honor that individual, the sensei is telling the students of that dojo to respect that individual as the sensei does. No skill is implied in the suggestion. Think of the soke and the soke-dai relationship. If the soke passes the soke-dai becomes the soke. Many times the soke-dai never training in the art...most of the time being the soke's wife. The honorary black belt seems more like a title than a rank if that makes sense. You can be deemed a certain title in your school...it does not mean you carry any rank. Respect should still be granted regardless of rank...IMHO. Congratz on your honorary black belt...I agree, it was earned.
Great Video! I really appreciated your comments about the BJJ belting system. I have been training BJJ for over 8 years and I will be getting my black belt in BJJ next month. I train 7 days a week and sometimes 2-3 classes a day. I definitely feel like I will have earned my black belt when it comes. Probably one of the toughest things I have ever done in my life.
Awesome! Getting a BJJ black belt is no easy feat! Congratulations! Please come back and let me know how it went. Great job man!
I was told a couple of origin stories about the belt ranking system in Karate. One was you started with a white belt and over time from training and grime, it became blackened. This then signified your dedication and training. Another story was that you started as a white belt and then over years of dedication and practice your Sensei just gave you your black belt with no other color in-between. In Shotokan Karate the belt system was taken from Judo. Traditional Japanese arts were taught in a very militaristic style to teach large group of people and the military approach worked best. Hence giving rank to the belt system, and this was very prevalent in my Taekwondo school. Black belts were like an officer's rank. You had to show your respect by bowing when a black belt entered the training area. Kind of like saluting. Having a military background myself I liked the concept. I feel that in traditional martial arts the belt system is a great tool to help students achieve a goal and gives them something to work towards. Unfortunately Mcdojo's have used this system to their advantage to sell rank. This has given the belt system a bad reputation and a stigma in some martial art communities eyes as something not to take seriously. This is why I feel accreditation is important for different martial arts schools similar to accreditation is in higher learning. Kind of like you earned a degree at Harvard instead of a degree at Nebraska U. This could be a poor example as I am from Canada.
The white belt turning black was a myth. The first actual belt was the black belt. Jigoro Kano took inspiration from Japanese swimming teams in which the best swimmers were award a black band to wear around their arm. He liked the concept so he awarded a black belt to students he felt were proficient. So it was no belt or black belt. Over time he began to expand it and yes, then Shotokan adopted it and soon it began to spread. We did a video a couple of years ago about the belt histories. ua-cam.com/video/KGRGzyWBArY/v-deo.html
hey Master Dan, i think the reason they give you a Dan One black belt is because of the videos that you have made in the last 3 years now, and in the process of making this videos you have help to educate people on the history and backround of Martial Arts in all of their size and shape and country of origin.
from my point of view i think that you have earned that black belt.
Thank you, I really appreciate that comment. I have done some research into this school and there are a lot of questions that come with it and I fear that maybe the person was hoping for some publicity. I'm not sure, but I really do appreciate your comments, we're always trying to make better videos!
@@ArtofOneDojo i do not all ways comment but when i do, i only write the best and with the best intentions :D
much respect and love from israel :)
bro fist 🤜
Great example Mr Dan of a decent conversation with some context, that hopefully encourages some critical thinking. You DESERVE a Honorary Black Belt.
I believe that ANYONE can be presented with a Honorary Black Belt. Even IF they have not studied the martial art style that is awarding it, with the following caveats.
1) That the recipient receives the said artefacts (belt & certificate), that CLEARY displays the word “Honorary”. Totally agree with you sentiment about ambiguity and miscommunication.
2) The receiving person has conducted themselves / activities / duties / skills (martial or not) / time and commitment to progressing the establishment of community within their sphere of influence. With particular emphasis on Respect and Honour they bring to said community.
A belt, any color, is simply acknowledgement that you've been exposed to certain material within a system.
Congratulations on your honorary black belt awarded, by that system due to your contribution to the martial arts education overall! I am definitely in agreement that an honorary rank, should be awarded to an individual, that is actually a dedicated practitioner of that particular art!
However as you mentioned Sensei Dan, so long as they specify on the certificate, that is solely an award and not actual rank and reflection of the person's ability in that art. I do agree also that an actual award plaque, or a sculpted belt to symbolise that honorary rank, rather than the actual belt and certificate.
Giving out honorary black belts and certificates, can indeed and justifiably infuriate practitioners who have actually dedicated their lives of training, to that particular martial art. Only to then have an outsider for whatever reason, to also and equally be awarded that exact rank, without having done anything to truly earn it. Honorary university degrees to me personally, are also a ludicrous as yet again those who have done the required, academic years of studies to qualify for it, then become mocked indirectly by those simply awarded to them, due to their celebrity or political calibre, social status.
Lastly Sensei Dan with all due respect I am also not a fan of the posthumous, black belts awards. The late Shihan Bobby Lowe, who was Sosai Oyama Masutatsu's first student to open a Kyokushinkaikan Karate dojo, outside of Japan in his native, Honolulu, Hawaii, was awarded his 10th dan black belt, back in 2012 or 2013 when he had passed away, due to his years of dedication, contribution and servitude to Kyokushin Karate. This in my opinion should have been awarded to him, while he was still alive, what is the point to award such a great honour, to the family of the person, once they are no longer here with us. I hope all is well with you and your family and friends, there in the USA. Greetings as always, from Melbourne, Australia 🇲🇽🇦🇺🥋🙏😊✌👍🤟Osu!
What happens with arts where higher grades are not awarded thru exams but the contribution you made to the art. For example in Judo, to get a rank above 6th degree there is not a physical/technical exam in itself but something more related to your knowledge. You don’t need to now a new technique or kata, but you need to have a deep knowledge of the art, write an essay or get proposed by the organization itself.
We have the case of Vladimir Putin he was awarded with an 8th Dan for his contribution to Judo, was that fair? Did he contribute more than others and have a deeper knowledge? Many questions around those matters.
That's why I wanted to separate that at the beginning. There is a big different in receiving rank because of time, grade, and effort you put back into the art, and say someone who made a donation, or did a charity event.
Good video. I think you have taken the belt in the spirit that was meant. Your channel brings awareness and raises the profile of martial arts so its deserved. Also you are a practitioner of a martial art so the commitment aspect cant be questioned.
Hi. I can relate to this video because of this falowing story. In general school i started to practice Kyokushin. My teacher was an old man around 60 years old. Later i found out he was actualy a PE teacher and the head coach of young national judo team. He had an accident and he was badly woonded. Lost an eye, leg muscle pierced by a metal rod. He atarted to teach Kyokushin classes for students and in 2 years time we were winning alot of medals in competitions. He put our city on the national kyokushin map. We were also members of kyo national team for 3 years. Eventualy he received a 1Dan honorary belt from the Federation. In kyokushin if you receive an honorary belt, you can no longer take exams for next levels.
Did this man deserve to receive the belt? Absolutley!
Was he physical fit to take the 1dan exam? NO, kyokushin exams are brutal.
If anyone actualy reads this, I am happy my teacher received the belt. Now it's 20 years since i've started kyokushin and still gratefull to him. OSU!
See that is a case that he deserves it. He still worked hard and he put his effort into the system so I would agree that he deserved his belt.
Dan, I was hoping that you would cover "Honorary Black Belts", and at last, you have. I believe that if you have been a black belt for over a decade, in a "related style" to the black belt that's being honorarily bestowed upon you, then it's appropriate for the black belt to be given to you. It's like college credits transferring from one university to the next. I've heard of 8th degree black belts in Judo being given honorary black belts in a Japanese Jujitsu style, and Tang Soo Do black belts being awarded a black belt in Taekwondo. I've also heard of a Hawaiian Kempo black belt receiving an honorary black belt in Kajunkenbo. In many cases, the honorary black belt is not allowed to award belts or stripes to students in that system, but they "are" permitted to teach at "clinics" at the particular school where they are being honored with the black belt.
Exactly, and that seems more appropriate because at least it's related to something you already have experience in and worked towards.
you're absolutely right in every aspect of the way you have to be honest to yourself
I think the results you expected in the poll would've been more close to that if all participating were black belts. I personally stood with the 47%, but I am just a green belt in American Kenpo. My instructor most certainly doesn't think belt matters that much and is indifferent. After a decade or so in the art as a black belt, she doesn't care to go beyond first degree, but would be around a 3rd or 4th at this point (and in fact rarely wears her belt while instructing). I think most belts lower than black see it as a goal no matter what, while those who have actually attained it either place a great deal of value on it, or very little.
It's funny that you made this post because I've been training in kenpo karate a little over 3 years as an honorary black belt because I hold a black belt in Taekwondo. So here's my perspective, I was okay with it.... At first. After a little while I felt wrong wearing it simply because I wasn't keeping up with the workouts as the rest of the class, my techniques are sharp and my forms are always good but that's where I shine. Now among other factors i wasn't training as consistently as I would like but I will say that one of those factors was that I really didn't feel like I should be wearing the black belt in kenpo karate so it really made me not want to train because my physical fitness was embarrassing for me to even wear that belt. It honestly became a love hate relationship with it. Let be clear though in saying that just because I had that belt around my waist didn't mean I saw myself as a kenpo karate black belt, I recognized that i was walking in there as a beginner. I also understand that my honorary black belt was just that. Honorary. I honestly couldn't care less about the belt, but I know for some it does hold some weight of validation to their hard work which was something else that was weighing on my mind. I eventually told my instructors that I want an actual purple belt which is my current rank after seeing 2 other of my Taekwondo black belt traded in their honorary black belt for their color belt. I'm totally fine with giving recognition for one achievements but I agree when you said it shouldn't be a black belt but maybe a plaque ot something. I honestly wasn't comfortable with it after a few months and since I struggle with depression/anxiety it just didn't vibe with me well.
At least you took a step back and did some honest consideration about it and then decided to adopt the rank you felt you had earned. That in itself shows a lot of good character. Not everyone would do that.
@@ArtofOneDojo thank you sir. I'm happy with my decision, I wished I made it sooner though. Morally speaking I think made the right choice.
This is a difficult topic but, definitely one worth discussion. Thanks sir!
In Kyokushin Sosai Mas Oyama gave Sean Connery a 3rd degree black belt. Sosai choreographed fight scenes in the Bond movie, "You Only Live Twice." This really angered many black belts at the time.
Great video and congratulations on the honorary belt!
I understand what you were getting at, but an honorary doctorate (PhD usually) doesn’t equate to a medical degree (MD), honorary or otherwise. A doctorate is simply the highest academic degree one can achieve in any given field; and so, many people across a wide variety of fields and professions can have “Dr.” in front of their names.
Keep up the great work and I can’t wait for the next video!
I like the belt systems as a student. If I'm new to a school and I see a lower rank and a higher rank doing the same movements but they look different (if that makes sense) then I'll know whose footwork, hand shapes, etc. to focus on. Or if I'm drilling something and I can't remember the next part I can easily look to someone with my belt or higher to ask them if they remember (assuming they have a moment). When you're a lower belt this isn't hard, but it becomes more difficult as you go up in rank (curriculum)
My other thought drifts to the 'original' meaning of belts - these were a recent invention. Prior to that, there were no 'belts' handed out, merely something you used to keep your gi tied shut. So, in that context, applying a meaning to something that really has no meaning is what we're left with. If a belt means 'nothing', then an honorary belt still carries no actual meaning besides the honor it was presented with. One can also argue, validly, that high honor should only be given posthumously. (And we can also debate if a 1st degree belt really means much... in my system we consider 1st degrees 'beginners' ..)
Thank you so much for being humble. OSS!
I totally agree; these are really good points. As a martial artist, I would never want to get a rank that I didn't earn -- even though I am already a black belt. To me, rank doesn't really mean anything. I would rather be good than have a high Dan number.
Skill v. knowledge. That's a fascinating question. In systems that are more competitive (or more sport oriented), then skill is a far greater importance (IMHO). For systems that are much less competitive, skill is still important, but so is knowledge. Injury, work, kids, etc., can all change one's trajectory in the martial arts. Time can begin to erase knowledge (and how much it does that depends greatly on how deep that was in the first place!). If you're not actively training in an art, can you still claim to be whatever your last rank was? In my school, if someone leaves for a period of time, when they choose to come back, they will be allowed to wear the last belt they earned, but many will either not wear that belt, or will wear a lower ranked belt until they have re-learned their old material. That doesn't mean that someone with a 10 year gap comes back as a black belt... they will have to re-train and re-learn all the material up to their current rank. I know, because this is what I had to do.
There are grapplers outside of BJJ given honorary BBs as a sign of respect for their skill in something like BJJ. I actually think it’s pretty cool when it’s something like that.
I should have done it with one of the long term brown belts that I inherited with my school,
He adapted to the new curriculum, he was a stalwart, but he was 20 years older than me, but I never felt that he could turn it on enough to earn his black-belt.
When the club folded, I would really like to have given him a BB.
I feel like your right... An honorary black belt can be very confusing to someone who doesn't have knowledge of martial arts. Make it a different color. Or make a fancy plaque or something. I feel that's how McDojo's get started! 😅 If your up for testing for a black belt? And you injure yourself right before testing? And you can't do anything physical anymore. But they know the cariculum front back and inside out. They deserve the rank.
Our Kajukembo organization decided to give "certificates of recognition" to people outside the system. In the certificate we spell out their contributions and that we welcome them into our Ohana and respect and recognize the rank they have in their system as it would be in ours. We've done this for Mr Tommy Burks, Mr Patrick Duffy and few others.
This I like, this makes sense.
In the method of Kajukenbo that I train in , we don't offer Honorary Black Belt Certificates. The first rank of black is a Student Black Belt then the degrees follow, after Fifth degree it is considered an Honorary . All ranks achieved require a performance prior to being promoted.
My great uncle Jess Lawler was an 8th Dan in Tang Soo Do. He passed away years ago from lung cancer and was buried in his gi
He was posthumously promoted to 9th Dan at his funeral and the belt was placed in his casket. He is in the Texas Sports Hall of Fame in Waco Texas. Not physically of course. Lol.
Great video, I would love to see a secondary video on The Professor Grandmasters with 20+ 10th Degrees in various styles and 15 9th Degrees etc
Yes please ha ha 😅😂
While Posthumous honors are more than acceptable, I have no clue what my own opinion my offer. I will tell you I had my own experience, not only with Honorary titles but dealing with multiple styles. You see, when I was very young (somewhere around six or so), I had to give up TKD do to seizures.I had already had at least a year or so into the practice, and according to him, I was something of a rising star. Once the seizures came on full blast, I was a bit of a wreck. I would sometimes black out and even collapse in the middle of practice, I was losing my coordination and even losing control over my strength. As a way to honor my continued effort, without putting me or others at risk, my sensei would take different colors of tape and wrap a ring around my white belt as a way to symbolize what rank he felt I should have been at. The other teachers there jokingly dubbed it my 'rainbow' belt.
When the seizures became too much and I had to leave, so we could live closer to my dad's business (which offered better medical care). When I decided to take martial arts up again, I knew I needed to take up a different style so my previous TKD experience wouldn't taint my effort. It sounds silly here, but I was aiming for a completely fresh start. After feeling tempted to bring the infamous Rainbow Belt out of retirement, I chose to have the words Tae Kwon Do embroidered on it to remind myself that I was starting over from scratch. Since then, I've gotten my fresh start and never regretted it.
Perhaps if the Dojo were to have the words 'Honorary Black Belt For Service' embroidered on to Honorary Black Belt, people will accept it easier.
Very insightful perspective and thank you for sharing that. I hope you're doing better these days and I'm happy to hear you found new fulfillment in training.
@@ArtofOneDojo I'm actually doing A LOT better--no seizures in close to a decade--and while I chose not to return to formal competitions, my time away as given me even gratitude for the arts.
You quoted me but missed the letters. To open a medical practice you need to be an MD or DO. Those are very rarely given to anyone that didn’t earn them as an honor, and when they are it is almost always to someone that holds the other degree. A PhD isn’t nearly as well regulated. Bill Cosby claimed his honorary doctorate in education as real and even put the letters after his name in the credits of tv shows.
Honorary degrees are given for the exact same reasons. I watched Dr. Rand Paul MD receive an honorary PhD when he spoke at my wife’s medical school graduation. I watched George W Bush receive an honorary PhD when he spoke at a large university graduation. They aren’t claiming those degrees but the schools certainly got attention for giving them out. Well worth it.
Did you leave a reply to another comment with the letters? In the one in I saw it they weren't there but I apologize if you listed them. It is a great point to bring up.
Art of One Dojo I just talked about honorary PhDs. That is a lot different than an honorary MD or DO. Even if someone wants to pretend that an honorary PhD in English Lit is real, nobody gets hurt. Someone pretending to be a physician would be really bad.
You earn a black belt 🥋 with hard work blood sweat and tears Train hard stay strong. 🇦🇺🥋
Maybe offer a black belt with a gold stripe down the middle to distinguish it from the ranked black belt. I just take exception to this on principle because there are plenty of people who wash out of one system or another. I have a friend who was an associate Black Belt candidate (one step away from 1st degree) in TKD when he quit. My system requires a 2 year testing cycle for first degree in addition to the entire underbelt curriculum which takes another 2 years. That's 4 years minimum before you are awarded your black belt, and generally longer for kids.
Traditional martial arts has a 97% attrition rate, lets recognize the 3% and honor them with the black belt, and leave the honorary titles for the other 97%.
Hard to be short winded on this one. I know several accomplished, and recognized Masters. They have backgrounds in Aki-Jujitsu, Tai-Chi, Kung-Fu, Kali, Arnis, and a variety of Karate disciplines from all over Asia. At some point there were over 300 individual forms, sets, and techniques among the group. Because of clever communication, videos, and documentation, they all have been able to perform with expert proficiency each other's disciples. Including philosophy and scenario awareness of regional laws. Thusly they all justify ranking each other at high degrees, or allowing each other to teach the styles.
I look at this like as how the FMAs were so prolific and effective at protecting the islanders or villagers. Styles were taught with weapons then open hand, in that order. Under a short amount of time, and proved to be devastating to occupying forces.
I also think an compare something like Hung-Gar. Where extended forms were taught, so that the discipline could be handed down within villages. But the founding GM would travel throughout to teach the art to many.
So, yes, take the black belt. They probably know your story, how you work for your rankings in the past. And you-yourself admitted that the Black Belt is an acknowledgement that you have mastered the basics. I'm sure their style shares many of the same or similar movements as your own, along with the intent and philosophies.
I accepted and thanked them, but unfortunately as I did further research they appear to not be a legitimate school, and actually fraudulent. There is no website, not footage, or even photos available so there are many red flags with this one. In any case it still brought the topic to light.
It needs to be clear that the award is honorary only. The certificate should state it also. I like the idea of using something outside the ranking system as a way to honour achievements, support ect within the organisation is a great way to recognise non skill based honours. Also, official belt awards should be based on the following:
1) physical skill in the system you are training in. I am an ungraded white belt in Kyokushin working hard to achieve my first belt in December, as are my children.
2) mindset. You should not only demonstrate the skills of the awarded rank, but also the discipline, and mindfulness that goes with that rank.
Honorary degrees from colleges are Philosophy (PhD) not medical (MD). But great video with both sides well pointed. Thank you.
Also the recipient has typically achieved a certain level of accomplishment.
I got one informally from a longtime training partner of mine for Luta Livre as recognition for my long time training and winning the State Wushu championship
When does Kenpo actually run out of Curriculum? I don't think form 6 is taught until very advanced stages. An old teacher told me that eventually belt belt degrees are earned by teaching.
And here is an interesting story, I earned a 1st degree brown belt in Kenpo but moved away and never got a chance to test for black belt. Some years later I found another Kenpo school and started going. I told the teacher I once earned a Brown Belt years ago and was not sure about my skill but he honored it anyway. Well this style of Kenpo was different and this teacher taught different. I didn't know alot of material and a lot of my basics needed refined. Eventually he pulled me aside and said its obvious Ive been trained in Kenpo but thought I was more of a purple belt level. I was totally fine with it.
It depends on which manuals a person is learning from. Originally, with the 32 technique manuals (32 per belt) the curriculum ran out at 3rd Degree. The main techniques run out and then you go back and learn extensions to Orange, Purple, Blue, and Green techs, plus Forms Five and Six. Some schools will continue with Form 7 and 8 but those are harder to come by and most schools DON'T teach them.
If you are learning from the 24 technique manual, it ends around 4th degree, and if you went through the 16 technique manual (which is the system that was in place when I started) you learn all the base techniques by First Black belt and then you learn a set of 24 extensions and a form for each additional.
After the curriculum runs out, promotions come from time and grade and teaching and contribution back into the system.
I agree that belt/rank doesn't matter. "A Black Belt Isn't Something You Wear, It's Something You Become." With that being said my instructor gave on Honorary Black Belt out once to an adult Student who whole family tested for black belt but he could no longer training because of a serious back injury, he was awarded a plaque that said "honorary black belt" which was nice but we have given out another award that I believe is better then giving out a plaque that says black belt and we have given out a "Black Belt Spirit Award" to those who truly show a Black Belt Mindset (mainly Perseverance and Indomitable Spirit) and I believe if you want to give out an "honorary black belt" then the Black Belt Spirit Award is better in my own opinion. But of course it's left up to the instructor of the art.
I agree, I like this a lot. Black Belt Spirit Award.
Kazushi sakuraba was awarded an honorary black belt in Brazilian Jiu jitsu for his victories over several jiu jitsu black belts and his grappling skills. His main weapon was catch wrestling and had a submission game and held no rank in any martial art at all. Funny enough he admitted in an interview that he never even learned to tie it. I am a purple belt in Brazilian Jiu jitsu and recently just started training judo (no problem starting over at white) and my coach told me I'll rank up fast anyway. I told him promote me straight to brown when he feels I'm ready, I wish to stay a white belt til then. Belts are nice, but the ones serious about training will train regardless of belt color or ranking.
First let me say I like your T-Shirt where can I get one? Now to the subject of Honorary Black Belt. I have been in martial arts for over 54 years and hold the rank of Red Belt with 10 Black stripes on it all awarded to me by one man my Instructor.(I can not be a solid Red Belt until his passing. We cannot hold the same rank as him solid Red Belt)I have trained in a number of systems and have 3 other Black Belts but one of them is an honorary In Kajukembo after training for two years in Okinawa along with my system.I created my own system 30 years later and have given a few people Honorary Black Belts mainly to those who were instrumental in the development of my system.Note I did not say an Organization, because, in an organization anyone can disagree in who you promote or give rank to.NO student of your system has a right to question who you give rank to.When you as an Instructor see that this person deserves rank then there should be no question about it.EVERY student is not fully ready to become a Black Belt but you as the instructor see's much more about that student than your student see.
In closing RESPECT the decision of the teacher.When you become a Black Belt you don't want anybody questioning your rank.My students earn their rank and if i give an Honorary Black belt they earned the highest form of a compliment i can give them. I teach for FREE.
I agree with you completely, and i like the idea of not being able to match the rank of your instructor until their passing. That's a great sentiment.
As for the shirt...AMAZON!!! www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0764KN6HG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I'm not a huge fan of ranks, I dont feel comfortable claiming rank. I see my black belt as more of an honor because my sensei who I have a lot of faith in gave it to me but outside my dojo that doesn't mean anything unless they know my sensei. I've known a lot of belt chasers and I could happily just train forever if we had no ranks as long as I feel like I'm getting something out of training and progressing. I know that's not universal though.
I do think it's pretty weird to be given a rank in something you've never trained a day in your life though. Maybe they could give you a cool sword or something.
We could talk for hours on this topic. Being I've been blessed to have been involved in the martial arts for a good bit of time brother.
how it worked with at least Shotokan or other traditional forms of Karate , judo etc is , once you of course have got to at least 4 th dan , you are tested by the national karate board , in my case in uk , it would be KUGB .
back in around 2007 , our Sensei was awarded his 5th Dan by the Chief instructor at a normal kyu Grading session as to honour him for the work he's put into the club , level of teaching , organising events , tournaments , gradings etc .
It didn't make him big headed in any way , as we were all proud for him that he was acknowledged for what he's done .
its certainly not an honorary grade for writing a book or releasing a film or any suchlike .
As you know , a lot of people think a black belt is the ultimate sign of expertise in a martial art , but its really just a sign to others learning that you have got to the stage where the basics are learnt and you can go and learn how to use it effectively and to teach others .
It's fairly common in japan at least that to teach , you probably would have to have been training over 10 years and to have got at least 2nd dan or trained as a black belt for at least a few years .
some are better at teaching than others , it often helps to teach as it makes you think harder about your own technique and how it's passed on
I was once part of an organization where half of us had to earn our black belt and the other half was given an honorary black belts for other reasons. Ultimately I left organization because I didn’t believe in what they were doing is being right. By the way I had to test for my rank at that organization
I agree that honorary should not be applied to rank because of so many problems that can come up but honoring someone for there contributions is great. One thing I noticed when I was in the service and teaching a 4 H group self defense there were many people who wanted to challenge so if I didn’t have the training I could have been injured even though you didn’t mention this problem in particular I’m sure that this was part of what you meant by getting injured. So if you have a honorary certificate awarded to you make sure that is the way you talk about it if at all.
I think you're missing it is common in many arts to require a 3rd degree black belt in order to be an instructor. Also if the organization is alive enough to bestow the rank upon you it is alive enough to expell you and expose you if you decide to use that rank in any manner unbecoming of that art. I think what are really running into here is the slight difference between our grandfather's idea of respect and our own.
I agree that it should be a separate designation than other traditional belts. It should be meant as an honorary gesture, rather than lending confusion to a rank.
Good video. I liked the zen style questions. If a black belt is a white belt with perseverance, is a white belt with honor shodan?
Oooh I like that!
First congratulations!
So I was an advance yellow belt in tkd and my master who’s is a 5th Dan said I he felt that I was ready to go on to green belt because it’s been almost a year since I last tested so he had me come into the dojan and test. I was able to demonstrate my knowledge and move on to green belt. When I was a white belt he felt that I picked up the knowledge so well he allowed me to double test for my yellow belt. I am currently an advance green belt more than half way to black
I'm 60 years old just testing for yellow belt.. hoping to achieve the rank of black belt..
My never get it, but I will try my best!
I'm personally ok with any honorary awards so long as the person it's presented to stays honorable. If they try to take that award and claim rank they didn't earn to capitalize on it, it needs to be publicly and vocally rescinded. Meaning, if you're the owner of your school or high up in the organization and you award one of those, it's your responsibility to ensure that person never disrespects your art or organization in any public way. If you're unwilling to follow through on that, you shouldn't give it out.
As for the people that feel these honorary belts diminish their own hard work, I have to ask: how? It reminds me of the movie Rudy. The scene where Sean Astin is quitting because he didn't get a spot to dress in the last game, and Charles S. Dutton's character Fortune says "... you hung in there with the best college football players in the land for 2 years. And you're gonna walk out of here with a degree from the University of Notre Dame. In this life you don't have to prove nothin' to nobody but yourself. And after what you've been through, if you haven't done that by now, it ain't gonna never happen."
Just because your instructor or organization awards someone an honorary rank, that doesn't take away your years of experience and knowledge that you've earned through your hard work. Check your ego and pride.
I think if someone has an honorary belt they should be respected as someone who has done a lot of good work for a martial art. if they go to another gym they should be respected as someone who has contributed significantly to the community, but not as someone who can fight. if someone who can't fight wearing a belt upsets you... i don't know what to say. maybe a gold belt should be the standard if it's really contentious but i don't see a problem. if a guy can't fight it won't matter until he does, and then it's nobody's problem but his own. me personally, treat them with the same respect as another black belt, because either way, they earned that respect (ideally). i've beaten guys who were a higher bel5 than me before, didn't change the way i talked to them or whether or not i took their advice or coaching seriously.
I feel honorary belts are good, as you stated, they should be noted as honorary, everywhere. In addition, I like the suggestion to simply have a different colored belt.
All I know is, I would not want one as I would feel phony. I earned my black belt, passed the test and I can take pride in that.
The stuff you said around 8:30 reminds me of watching a video of a man without legs and arms do karate. Like, where do paralympic athletes fall?
A very valid question!
Hey Dan what's up Mr Burns here I am going for my third don December 5th so I know all about the hard work congratulations on getting your black belt and whatever style it was honorary of course but my question is what if your experience is the background or history of that current style? And would it be warranted for example I'm a fourth degree in shotokan going for my third in taekwondo that's a combination for Tang pseudo and first degree in have keto
Zaxh, you have a very creative spell checker.
@@Docinaplane yeah when I speak into microphone it pretty much says whatever the hell it wants lol. ... If you have all the historical styles of the actual style that you got a black belt in then wouldn't that warrant some sort of credibility to it
@@zachburns7114 I've really enjoyed learning my lineage and the history of the martial arts that I do.
@@Docinaplane I agree I just wanted to get your opinion on how you felt about that type of situation even though I have the styles of things to do I don't claim to know things you don't because there's other things in the style that are different which makes its its own thing I just wanted to get your opinion on it that's all
@@zachburns7114 Oh, Ok, If you already know all the things that make up a style, even if it''s not your official style than I agree, an honorary belt in that style make more sense. Interestingly, (I'm a doctor), it is possible for a medical school to give an honorary MD to someone, but only if they already hold a real MD from another school.
You clearly explain it . Some would take a honoring black belt and clam to be of that system and state they earned it. There more issues as well when it come to recognition of rank some take as a black rank.
I honor you my friend. Oss. Master K, MA
Another great video would be black belt, skill or coaching?
I'm sorry I'm sure it annoys you greatly when folks don't comment on the video but on something else they would like haha. At least you know I watched the whole video though 🤣
Funny you mentioned BJJ Paul Walker was taking it when he passed away. He was a Blue belt and awarded his Black Belt after his passing. Do you feel this was wrong?
I am torn on it but at that point it's a gesture and not rank he could publicize or benefit from.
Paul Walker was a brown belt, not blue when he passed away.
@@barrettokarate thank you for telling me because I heard he was a Blue Belt. Either way I do believe he was doing his best to make it to Black belt.
Giant Trophies
...in Martial Arts is another topic. Do champions have a special room...?
(I am personally not bothered by what others do.)
Sensible Awards
Medals, Ribbons, Certificates, Gifts, Free Stuff (is a better option)
A "large" presentation trophy (for photos) is fine.
Definitely a mix between the two.
Other thing to keep in mind when you speak of honorary degrees, they're not handing out honorary MDs, they're handing out honorary PhDs. A PhD does not allow somebody to practice medicine - the PhD is awarded for published and defended research on some subject. A honorary PhD is given to somebody's whose achievements merit as highly to the academy as published research does.
As you discussed, it's understandable that a school will want to recognise a person's work, even if they aren't particularly adept or knowledgeable. Perhaps the guy has helped organise events for years, everybody knows him and he's become indispensable. However; in every instance I've seen, the recipient of an 'honorary' type promotion will, over time, want to be taken seriously. That's a bad thing for everyone.
Judo's Kodokan is another organization that weeds out phoney blackbelts, saw it happen in my younger judoka days, trained in Shorin-ryu kenpo later and realized that most standing martial arts were run by a multitude of organizations giving ranks, which made it hard to check if a person's claimed rank was genuine!
A couple comments as I've been a college instructor before. Honorary doctorates from universities are created on the model of a PhD and not an MD degree, so no one can take one and try to open a practice as a physician, no. And because they're very clearly honorary no one such as an actor or other celebrity with one can become a university professor just by having an honorary degree. As for honorary black belts it seems very odd some organization you don't even have a connection with awarded you one. I'm not saying you're not worthy of such, it's just odd though. Certainly you do contribute greatly via this channel. Personally, I feel for legit instructors such as yourself an honorary belt is fine: you have the real deal already and the honor is just that: an honor, you can mention it on your website or whatever. Giving someone without dan rank in any style however an honorary black belt, especially if they're an instructor as you mentioned, though is a recipe for disaster.
I trained karate and mma as a young teen I'm now 24 and considering training martial arts again I was just wondering if I found a new school would I start as a white belt or would they test my ability in martial arts ?
I have no issues with starting at white again I am just curious
Most likely just white belt but honestly depends on the school’s priorities. I bet you will start at your old rank since belt colors mean absolutely nothing
It really depends on the school. If you go back to the same art, they may let you keep your old belt. But here's the thing, wear a white belt anyway. Don't ask for your old rank, just wear the white belt, it shows courtesy and respect. Sometimes they'll tell you to wear your old rank. If it's a new are you didn't train in, then DEFNITELY go with the white belt.
Thankyou for your reply and your advice like I said Im not fussy about belts in fact i would prefer to start with white instead of my old rank I'll just be thankful to be training martial arts again,I'm I big fan and I really appreciate the channel and the reply.
Thank you sensei.
In my opinion, honorary black belts are a good thing, they are an honor. Just like an honorary PHD, it is a way to show appreaciation, a way to show respect for those who have helped the cause (being science or martial arts). Of course, as the name says it, it is honorary, which does not mean the person is an expert in that martial art, it only means that the person awarded has gained the respect of that particular school or martial art
sean connery got an honorary black belt in kyokushin
Yep, a LOT of celebrities get them for....well...being celebrities.
I remember reading about that when Black Belt magazine reprinted the article recently. While filming the James Bond movie You Only Live Twice (1967) on location in Japan, a number of Mas Oyama's senior instructors were hired to work on the martial arts scenes and train Mr. Connery. Oyama and his associates were really impressed with Connery's commitment to his training and thus he was given a honorary black belt in Kyokushin Karate as a result.
Up in my home town, there was a guy who got his gold belt in a style of karate. He opened up his own kickboxing gym. He's a very shitty martial artist and his students seem to always get wrecked in competition. This instructor however has the gift of gab and due to his ability to fund raise he was given an honorary blackbelt and man he promoted the shit out of it and promotes himself and his crazy made up style as a blackbelt.
Can you please make a video on uachi ryu karate
There are Catch up exams, if you are good in some aspects of strinking, for instance. Some Kickboxing federations can test you for a Black belt if you pass it's advanecd programs, even if you are from another styler, like Muay Thai, Full Contact or Free Stule Karate and even Tae Kwon Do. Nevertheless, you should get into training the specifc art you are awarded the Black Belt, to really insert yourself into it.
Honorary should be reserved for those who started training and for a serious reason couldn’t continue. I’m talking about serious injuries, illnesses or death. Everyone else should be earning it or at least have different colour pattern like blue and black
I'm kind of curious is there something that as martial arts federations could there be some other color reserved for contributions that could be awarded? (Disclaimer I'm not an expert I am a complete novice to this and am still very new to BJJ) also I think there should be instructors belts ( some folks should not get a black belt but may have the knowledge and skill necessary to help other progress to that level doesn't mean they should be a black belt themselves but perhaps there should be something there for those individuals)
Like I've never heard of anyone using Grey as a belt color... why not offer a Grey belt to those who contribute to the arts? It's not a belt in the standard color scheme so it'll be obvious.
It's an honest question and I agree with you, a separate color or pattern. There ARE grey belts actually, not common but some system do use them. One is the US Marine Corp, they have a belt system but they are military colors, Tan, Grey, Green, Brown, and Black.
@@ArtofOneDojo Very honest. Also loving the video's while I'm a martial arts noob I love your video's especially the ones that dig into less thought about aspects of the arts. Cheers.
With my personal students . Once they have earned a blackbelt they will always have it , mainly because it is incredibly hard to earn one in my hybrid(Judo, Aikido, ninpo, Taekwondo(working on adding Kenpo)) Martial Art style. Even though we only have 4 belts in my system ( no belt, White, Brown, Red , Black ) but they can be demoted any time before they have reached a black belt including black belt testing day! As far as honorary belts I would definitely need to know someone's martial arts history and background before they received one , I think you should be proud ,but also ask for a certificate that says honorary. Speaking of... How's your judo ,Jiu-Jitsu, training going?
I agree with this completely. It SHOULD be something earned and I feel an honorary award should be something else other than a symbol of rank. Also, the more I look into this particular system that sent me the award....there are a TON of red flags so I'm not going to acknowledge them here.
As far as the JuJutsu/Judo...I'm dying to get back to it. Florida is still really bad with infections and a lot of martial arts schools are still closed or limited. My Shihan still has the school closed and we're waiting until it's safer for all of us to be grabbing each other, face to face and hugging in the air again.
@@ArtofOneDojo ,well I'm glad you guys are staying safe, we actually had to take a break from our Kenpo school since we just closed on our first house and finances are crazy right now , I'm hoping to get back soon. Almost ready to test for my yellow in kenpo, it's an exciting step everytime and in every art, I'd love to visit your school some time ( I live in South Carolina) and I have family in the orlando area, also... is the Ed Parker seminar still happening?
@@ArtofOneDojo be careful, just had a"superspreader" event in our county. 50+ confirmed cases.