Great video, and good question! What your image shows could be an artifact or could be something real that can be observed close to to the blue band of the spectrum. It would be worthwhile to ask other astrophotographers to shoot this star either with the O III filter or the Johnson B photometric filter to see if the pattern you got has something to do with the ejecta that this star normally experiences. P Cyg is a very well known star to us, professional and amateur astronomers. Actually it has a special feature in its spectrum localized more prominently in the H-alpha wavelength, in which it shows a double spectral line: one part absorption and one emission. This means that the material that is ejecting, part of it that is actually localized on the blue side of its spectrum is comming towards us, forming an absorption line, and the part that is getting away from us (on the red side) forms the emission line (I could send you a spectrum of this very star showing this particular feature). This is exactly the Doppler effect in action on a star! This particular profile is known as P Cygni profile, and can be found in more popular stars such as Alnilam and Alnitak, right at the Orion belt. On the other hand, P Cyg is a luminous blue variable (LBV), also known as SDor variable star. Its brightness changes with time precisely of the very powerful flares it produces. This particular star is a blue supergiant that fiercely burns hydrogen in its core and will not last long. The American Association of Variable Star Observers (AAVSO), of which I am a member, describes this type of variability as follows: "Variables of the S Doradus type. These are eruptive, high-luminosity Bpec-Fpec stars showing irregular (sometimes cyclic) light changes with amplitudes in the range 1-7 mag. in V. They belong to the brightest blue stars of their parent galaxies. As a rule, these stars are connected with diffuse nebulae and surrounded by expanding envelopes. Examples: P Cyg, η Car. Also known as LBV. The SDOR variability is known in the literature as an aspect of the LBV phenomenon, consisting of photospheric pulsations with time scales of hundreds to thousands of days and excursions to the redder part of the HR-diagram when the star is brighter (SDOR phases). Besides, they also display micro-variations, stochastic variability and eruptions." I would be glad to take a picture of this particular star with the O III filter and, if possible, with the Johnson B filter too, to verify with my 80 mm apo refractor if the patterns you got (and that seem so similar to what the JWST got with that other star) show up in my image too. Nevertheless, it would be good that anyone interested joins the effort. This is what astronomy is all about. If you are interested in the spectrum and light curve of this particular star, I would be happy to share them with you. Cheers!
Wow, Enrique, thanks for all that really interesting information. Yes I would love to see the spectrum and light curve of P Cygni. If you can spare the imaging time to take some subs of 34Cygni with your OIII and Johnson B filter, I would be most grateful. I was initially quite happy to say the finding in my image was artefact (as usually that is what these odd appearances in our images actually are) but the more I learnt about the star and its regular ejections of material, and it's apparent motion through space etc, the more I was keen to investigate further. If this does just turn out to be an artefact, well it still feels like a win as I have learnt so much about PCygni etc during this process. And as you say, this is what astronomy is all about... finding things, testing to see if they are real or not and then coming to a conclusion collaboratively. Just message me on my Instagram account (link in my UA-cam homepage) and I can let you know my email address if that is the best way to share the Spectrum and light curve data. Clear skies.
Great video Logan and thanks for the call out on the fact that I picked it up pixel peeping your image. By the way my first name is pronouced like Neil....Niall is an Irish name and Nia is pronounced like "nee" in Irish...similar to Niamh. It does get anglicised to sound like "nile" even by Irish people these days. But you weren't to know 😀.
Hi Logan, great video! Since this happens with pretty much monochromatic light (narrowband OIII), I wonder whether this could be a Newton’s ring effect of some sort… Clear skies!
Thanks. Yes I guess that is a possibility although when I have seen them, they have tended to be more circumferential rather than a narrow strip of curves but maybe in some circumstances they could be more localised I guess. Thanks for sharing that possibility. Clear skies.
Logan.... A massive thankyou for your shout out. It was a big surprise. I saw your new vid pop up in my feed earlier tonight while UA-cam surfing. I had a look at the time length and thought.... I'll just pour myself another glass of wine and get comfy. LOL! It was another great video Logan. A wonderful image yet again, and lovely narration. Niall is a fellow local, and coincidentally, as the crow flies our property's are about 10kms apart. To drive between the two however would take about 35 mins as we are both in the mountains North of Bathurst. No surprise to me that Niall, would have noticed this. He has a fine eye for detail and is a master of his craft. I am eagerly awaiting some HA data he is generously going to send me to compliment an image of a galaxy NGC 6744 I have processed recently. The evidence of the variable star and it's predicted path and the direction of the rings in your image are to coincidental, to not be true! as far as I am concerned! BTW, I hate pixel peepers, especially with my images LOL! In this case it's had positive outcome. Lovely to meet and talk as briefly as it was at Star Stuff. CS Don
Thanks Don. I think when someone like Niall pixel peeps an image, it is certainly a compliment😃. I agree, it does seem to be too much of a coincidence that the lines are in the same a expected motion of the star and I really really want to try and find out is this is a real phenomenon (alas, NASA aren't taking my calls🤣). It was great to catchup with you at StarStuff - we will make it a longer chinwag at the nest one 👍. CS
This is very cool Logan!! I love spotting variable stars. Last year, I had an Observation on the star Beta Lyrae in constellation Lyra. Which is a Variable star that changes its Brightness every 12 days. I was able to timelapse the star in two intervals! Seeing light curves on stars is quite rare, but it might be something worth trying for me. Im regular star Observer, I have also Detected Proper Motion in Stars, One Star I know is called 61 Cygni which is literally a Binary star, And I was able to see it move by 3.4 arc seconds in an Interval of One year.
Thanks Aventeesh. Wow, that's really cool stuff you are observing with stars. We often get caught up in imaging fancy nebula but to be able to observe the changes in a variable star and proper motion of stars is very impressive. CS
Great image Logan. I just happen to have that star in the bottom left corner of my Crescent/Bubble shot with my 115mm refractor. I took a look at my raw stacked O3 data, ~12 hours worth and didn't see the rings. I suspect it's an artifact. that said.. the investigation is part of the fun. :)
Thanks James. And thanks for letting me know about your image of the star. I kind of expect that it will be an artefact but it's just a strange one being out in only one direction and I have never seen it any other images with this setup in Spain. A very lucky co-incidence that is happens to be exactly in the apparent direction of movement of the star but as you say, investigation is part of the fun and we get to learn something about the object/star along the way. Out of interest, which camera and filters where you using for that shot?
@@LogansAstro ASI1600MM with astrodon 5nm. I know the 1600 isn't the most efficient camera.. and I'm in a bortle 5 but I think 12 hours would have given me at least a hint of something. Regardless..I'm tempted to point my edge at that spot. :)
@@DSOImager Thanks James. Yep I agree something should have shown up after 12 hrs. I was just trying to get a feel for the similarities to the equipment I am using which might confirm even more that I have an artefact occurring. Well, it's 4:30am here now and fog has rolled in so time to pack up the imaging gear and get some 😴🛌
Thanks Tony. The Red Rectangle Nebula also shows and interesting radiating pattern of lines but more in a.... rectangular form (hence the name). Yes it will be interesting to see if this shows up in anyone else's image. CS
Great video Logan really interesting stuff. I have been playing around with Franklin's script it really is great. I am the first to submit an image to Astrobin or Insta and never truly go around the image to see exactly what's in there and I reckon a lot of APs do the same. Going forwards I will study each image that bit more to see what interesting stuff and potentially new discoveries we can find. I am going to check my data on the Crescent now to see if I have this star visible
Thanks Simon, will be interesting to see if your image shows anything (or nothing). I try to pixel peep my images before posting on Astrobin but clearly, not thoroughly enough, as I never noticed the 34Cygni finding until it was pointed out to me. It's great that Franklin is producing and sharing these scripts as it gives us options when it comes to processing workflow, and not all may be suitable but the FAME and 'What's in my image' scripts are top on my list. CS
Thanks Stuart. I would love to know if this is a real phenomenon or not but I guess it depends whether anyone else find the same thing in their images 🤞
Unfortunately it was a relatively quick trip and didn't get any further south than Byron Bay but as my wife has family in Melbourne, next time we visit them we should definitely make time for a catchup.
Really interesting Logan! I think you might be onto something there! Will be good to see what the feedback is on this, you’ll have to do a follow up video! Great wide field image, don’t usually see the Crescent like that, it’s normally the star of the show! Pun intended 😀 Glad you had a good time at Byron Bay! I’ll check my calendar for 26!! Clear skies 👍
Thanks Simon. Yes the feedback will be interesting and a follow up video will have to occur one way or the other. So far I have a 'negative' from James so we will see what others find. If it is an artefact, what an amazing coincidence that it's exactly in the stars direction of travel (but coincidences do happen). Would be great to see you at the 2026 Starstuff (assuming there is a 2026 one). Clear skies.
Hi Logan I looked at mine that i took a couple of years ago & I'm not seeing anything although I do shoot OSC, I did have a go at it earlier this year but that was from light polluted skies so the finer detail wasn't showing sadly. I've been watching Don's channel for a while now the one where the struggle is real where everything was going wrong & cranky Don was getting bleeped a lot still make me laugh. Glad you had a good time on Oz the hot wing challenge was hillarious
Thanks Tich. And thanks for checking your image for anything related to 34Cygni. I do remember that video of Don's and I laughed also, and definitely identified with it😂. His videos on the automation of the obsy are technically impressive I think. CS
First I just have to say, "Tell him he's dreaming !" On a serious note, interesting I have James data and I think he's replied already. Hopefully, you'll get enough replies to sort out this mystery. 🤔
lol. Yeah seems that it's not in the image from James but before declaring it definite artefact, I'm hoping to hear from others who have 34 Cygni in there image as I said in the video, if no-one else has the finding then the only logical explanation will be that it's a artefact and a great coincidence with the star's motion of travel.
Hi Logan, You REALLY piqued my interest on this star (34 Cygni). I will try to look at it in O3 with my 130mm EON triplet on the next clear night ... whenever that might be. I have just recently added Seti Astro scripts to PI basically for the FAME script but that other script concerning "what's in my image" is certainly good to know. I will keep you posted as to what I find. Clear skies (well, not around here lately)
Thanks very much Pat, really appreciate you having a look at the star with your scope. James has already reported seeing nothing in his image but the more info I get from people, the more easily I can come to the conclusion that it is real or just artefact. The Seti astro scripts are a great set of tools to try out and it's fantastic that he is making these scripts and sharing them with our community. Like you, the FAME one will be top of my list to use (haven't tried it yet but it sounds like just what I have been hoping for) and the What's in My Image script is a huge time saver. CS
Great video, and good question! What your image shows could be an artifact or could be something real that can be observed close to to the blue band of the spectrum. It would be worthwhile to ask other astrophotographers to shoot this star either with the O III filter or the Johnson B photometric filter to see if the pattern you got has something to do with the ejecta that this star normally experiences.
P Cyg is a very well known star to us, professional and amateur astronomers. Actually it has a special feature in its spectrum localized more prominently in the H-alpha wavelength, in which it shows a double spectral line: one part absorption and one emission. This means that the material that is ejecting, part of it that is actually localized on the blue side of its spectrum is comming towards us, forming an absorption line, and the part that is getting away from us (on the red side) forms the emission line (I could send you a spectrum of this very star showing this particular feature). This is exactly the Doppler effect in action on a star! This particular profile is known as P Cygni profile, and can be found in more popular stars such as Alnilam and Alnitak, right at the Orion belt.
On the other hand, P Cyg is a luminous blue variable (LBV), also known as SDor variable star. Its brightness changes with time precisely of the very powerful flares it produces. This particular star is a blue supergiant that fiercely burns hydrogen in its core and will not last long. The American Association of Variable Star Observers (AAVSO), of which I am a member, describes this type of variability as follows: "Variables of the S Doradus type. These are eruptive, high-luminosity Bpec-Fpec stars showing irregular (sometimes cyclic) light changes with amplitudes in the range 1-7 mag. in V. They belong to the brightest blue stars of their parent galaxies. As a rule, these stars are connected with diffuse nebulae and surrounded by expanding envelopes.
Examples: P Cyg, η Car. Also known as LBV. The SDOR variability is known in the literature as an aspect of the LBV phenomenon, consisting of photospheric pulsations with time scales of hundreds to thousands of days and excursions to the redder part of the HR-diagram when the star is brighter (SDOR phases). Besides, they also display micro-variations, stochastic variability and eruptions."
I would be glad to take a picture of this particular star with the O III filter and, if possible, with the Johnson B filter too, to verify with my 80 mm apo refractor if the patterns you got (and that seem so similar to what the JWST got with that other star) show up in my image too. Nevertheless, it would be good that anyone interested joins the effort. This is what astronomy is all about.
If you are interested in the spectrum and light curve of this particular star, I would be happy to share them with you.
Cheers!
Wow, Enrique, thanks for all that really interesting information. Yes I would love to see the spectrum and light curve of P Cygni. If you can spare the imaging time to take some subs of 34Cygni with your OIII and Johnson B filter, I would be most grateful. I was initially quite happy to say the finding in my image was artefact (as usually that is what these odd appearances in our images actually are) but the more I learnt about the star and its regular ejections of material, and it's apparent motion through space etc, the more I was keen to investigate further. If this does just turn out to be an artefact, well it still feels like a win as I have learnt so much about PCygni etc during this process. And as you say, this is what astronomy is all about... finding things, testing to see if they are real or not and then coming to a conclusion collaboratively.
Just message me on my Instagram account (link in my UA-cam homepage) and I can let you know my email address if that is the best way to share the Spectrum and light curve data.
Clear skies.
Great video Logan and thanks for the call out on the fact that I picked it up pixel peeping your image. By the way my first name is pronouced like Neil....Niall is an Irish name and Nia is pronounced like "nee" in Irish...similar to Niamh. It does get anglicised to sound like "nile" even by Irish people these days. But you weren't to know 😀.
Thanks Niall. Damn, I was going to pronounce it Neil but thought, nah, it must be pronounced like Nile😅.
Hi Logan, great video! Since this happens with pretty much monochromatic light (narrowband OIII), I wonder whether this could be a Newton’s ring effect of some sort… Clear skies!
Thanks. Yes I guess that is a possibility although when I have seen them, they have tended to be more circumferential rather than a narrow strip of curves but maybe in some circumstances they could be more localised I guess. Thanks for sharing that possibility. Clear skies.
Logan.... A massive thankyou for your shout out. It was a big surprise. I saw your new vid pop up in my feed earlier tonight while UA-cam surfing. I had a look at the time length and thought.... I'll just pour myself another glass of wine and get comfy. LOL!
It was another great video Logan. A wonderful image yet again, and lovely narration. Niall is a fellow local, and coincidentally, as the crow flies our property's are about 10kms apart. To drive between the two however would take about 35 mins as we are both in the mountains North of Bathurst.
No surprise to me that Niall, would have noticed this. He has a fine eye for detail and is a master of his craft. I am eagerly awaiting some HA data he is generously going to send me to compliment an image of a galaxy NGC 6744 I have processed recently.
The evidence of the variable star and it's predicted path and the direction of the rings in your image are to coincidental, to not be true! as far as I am concerned!
BTW, I hate pixel peepers, especially with my images LOL! In this case it's had positive outcome.
Lovely to meet and talk as briefly as it was at Star Stuff.
CS Don
Thanks Don. I think when someone like Niall pixel peeps an image, it is certainly a compliment😃. I agree, it does seem to be too much of a coincidence that the lines are in the same a expected motion of the star and I really really want to try and find out is this is a real phenomenon (alas, NASA aren't taking my calls🤣). It was great to catchup with you at StarStuff - we will make it a longer chinwag at the nest one 👍. CS
This is very cool Logan!! I love spotting variable stars. Last year, I had an Observation on the star Beta Lyrae in constellation Lyra. Which is a Variable star that changes its Brightness every 12 days. I was able to timelapse the star in two intervals! Seeing light curves on stars is quite rare, but it might be something worth trying for me. Im regular star Observer, I have also Detected Proper Motion in Stars, One Star I know is called 61 Cygni which is literally a Binary star, And I was able to see it move by 3.4 arc seconds in an Interval of One year.
Thanks Aventeesh. Wow, that's really cool stuff you are observing with stars. We often get caught up in imaging fancy nebula but to be able to observe the changes in a variable star and proper motion of stars is very impressive. CS
Great image Logan. I just happen to have that star in the bottom left corner of my Crescent/Bubble shot with my 115mm refractor. I took a look at my raw stacked O3 data, ~12 hours worth and didn't see the rings. I suspect it's an artifact. that said.. the investigation is part of the fun. :)
Thanks James. And thanks for letting me know about your image of the star. I kind of expect that it will be an artefact but it's just a strange one being out in only one direction and I have never seen it any other images with this setup in Spain. A very lucky co-incidence that is happens to be exactly in the apparent direction of movement of the star but as you say, investigation is part of the fun and we get to learn something about the object/star along the way. Out of interest, which camera and filters where you using for that shot?
@@LogansAstro ASI1600MM with astrodon 5nm.
I know the 1600 isn't the most efficient camera.. and I'm in a bortle 5 but I think 12 hours would have given me at least a hint of something. Regardless..I'm tempted to point my edge at that spot. :)
@@DSOImager Thanks James. Yep I agree something should have shown up after 12 hrs. I was just trying to get a feel for the similarities to the equipment I am using which might confirm even more that I have an artefact occurring. Well, it's 4:30am here now and fog has rolled in so time to pack up the imaging gear and get some 😴🛌
Hi Logan , really interesting video and great work sorting all the information , looking forward to see if other peoples images confirm your findings.
Thanks Tony. The Red Rectangle Nebula also shows and interesting radiating pattern of lines but more in a.... rectangular form (hence the name). Yes it will be interesting to see if this shows up in anyone else's image. CS
Great video Logan really interesting stuff. I have been playing around with Franklin's script it really is great. I am the first to submit an image to Astrobin or Insta and never truly go around the image to see exactly what's in there and I reckon a lot of APs do the same. Going forwards I will study each image that bit more to see what interesting stuff and potentially new discoveries we can find. I am going to check my data on the Crescent now to see if I have this star visible
Thanks Simon, will be interesting to see if your image shows anything (or nothing). I try to pixel peep my images before posting on Astrobin but clearly, not thoroughly enough, as I never noticed the 34Cygni finding until it was pointed out to me. It's great that Franklin is producing and sharing these scripts as it gives us options when it comes to processing workflow, and not all may be suitable but the FAME and 'What's in my image' scripts are top on my list. CS
Thanks for your vid and sharing the journey.
Thanks for taking the time to watch the video and leave a comment - much appreciated. Clear skies.
Very interesting Logan, I hope you have discovered something there, that would be cool, great video…👍🏻
Thanks Stuart. I would love to know if this is a real phenomenon or not but I guess it depends whether anyone else find the same thing in their images 🤞
Didn't know you came across our side of the pond, Pity you didn't come to Melbourne mate would have been nice to catch up
Unfortunately it was a relatively quick trip and didn't get any further south than Byron Bay but as my wife has family in Melbourne, next time we visit them we should definitely make time for a catchup.
I think I need a mono camera. 😅
Sounds like a plan👍 😄
Really interesting Logan! I think you might be onto something there! Will be good to see what the feedback is on this, you’ll have to do a follow up video! Great wide field image, don’t usually see the Crescent like that, it’s normally the star of the show! Pun intended 😀 Glad you had a good time at Byron Bay! I’ll check my calendar for 26!!
Clear skies 👍
Thanks Simon. Yes the feedback will be interesting and a follow up video will have to occur one way or the other. So far I have a 'negative' from James so we will see what others find. If it is an artefact, what an amazing coincidence that it's exactly in the stars direction of travel (but coincidences do happen). Would be great to see you at the 2026 Starstuff (assuming there is a 2026 one). Clear skies.
Hi Logan I looked at mine that i took a couple of years ago & I'm not seeing anything although I do shoot OSC, I did have a go at it earlier this year but that was from light polluted skies so the finer detail wasn't showing sadly. I've been watching Don's channel for a while now the one where the struggle is real where everything was going wrong & cranky Don was getting bleeped a lot still make me laugh. Glad you had a good time on Oz the hot wing challenge was hillarious
Thanks Tich. And thanks for checking your image for anything related to 34Cygni. I do remember that video of Don's and I laughed also, and definitely identified with it😂. His videos on the automation of the obsy are technically impressive I think. CS
“Down” in Byron Bay??
Haha, well I did drive 'down' from Runawqy Bay where I was staying so technically, yes. 😄
First I just have to say, "Tell him he's dreaming !" On a serious note, interesting I have James data and I think he's replied already. Hopefully, you'll get enough replies to sort out this mystery. 🤔
lol. Yeah seems that it's not in the image from James but before declaring it definite artefact, I'm hoping to hear from others who have 34 Cygni in there image as I said in the video, if no-one else has the finding then the only logical explanation will be that it's a artefact and a great coincidence with the star's motion of travel.
Hi Logan,
You REALLY piqued my interest on this star (34 Cygni). I will try to look at it in O3 with my 130mm EON triplet on the next clear night ... whenever that might be. I have just recently added Seti Astro scripts to PI basically for the FAME script but that other script concerning "what's in my image" is certainly good to know. I will keep you posted as to what I find.
Clear skies (well, not around here lately)
Thanks very much Pat, really appreciate you having a look at the star with your scope. James has already reported seeing nothing in his image but the more info I get from people, the more easily I can come to the conclusion that it is real or just artefact. The Seti astro scripts are a great set of tools to try out and it's fantastic that he is making these scripts and sharing them with our community. Like you, the FAME one will be top of my list to use (haven't tried it yet but it sounds like just what I have been hoping for) and the What's in My Image script is a huge time saver. CS