Making Magic: Forget What You Know About Hard Magic Systems!!

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 85

  • @AtaraxianWist
    @AtaraxianWist 5 місяців тому +35

    The thing with Fullmetal Alchemist is that it teaches you about the magic kind of slowly. It shows you something the magic can do or tells you something it can't, then lets you sit there wanting an explanation for awhile before it actually explains it. But it DOES explain it.

  • @jacobhatcher5409
    @jacobhatcher5409 5 місяців тому +37

    FMA answers those questions, at least in Brotherhood.
    You need a circle to transmute, so high level alchemists tattoo it on themselves.
    Lust cut off Roys circles on his gloves, so he carved one into his hand and used a flint for ignition.
    Amestrian alchemy originally used tectonic energy from volcanos and continental plates moving, but Father altered that with the nationwide transmutation circle so it would use his philosopher stone as fuel. Hence why he could shut down alchemy, because he controlled the fuel.
    Ed and Al arent "special", they performed human transmutation and saw the truth on the other side of the gate, letting them transmute without a circle. Same with Izumi Curtis and later Roy.

    • @Dragon66898
      @Dragon66898 5 місяців тому +1

      Thank you for explaining it, I call that system as a medium magic system.

    • @Amipotsophspond
      @Amipotsophspond 27 днів тому +1

      they are subconsciously making the circle when they clap their hands together, the gate just helped them to "know" this.

  • @cwhite1358
    @cwhite1358 5 місяців тому +24

    One of my favorite magic systems ever is the Ancient language from the Eragon books. It has the wizard style "magic has the theoretical ability to do anything" but has very extreme and simple rules. Firstly, your ability to do something with magic will take the same amount of energy from you as if you did it yourself, and secondly, you can only do as much as you know the words to describe in "the ancient language."
    If you use more energy than you can expend, you die, simple. You are limited by your creativity with language and the words you know. Saying "open" will work, but saying "unlock the door" will take less energy.
    So cool! I love these books :)

    • @matityaloran9157
      @matityaloran9157 5 місяців тому +2

      Agreed

    • @AtaraxianWist
      @AtaraxianWist 5 місяців тому +2

      I mostly liked that magic system, but there was a time when Eragon should have died but was instead able to cut off the spell. Which would be fine as a possibility, except that it contradicts what we knew before, and the change/surprise is just never addressed. Like, he should have died, and all he says is basically "I could have died."

  • @Natnansa
    @Natnansa 4 місяці тому +4

    fullmetal alchemist actually has explanations for where the energy comes from, techtonic energy made by the earth. and the premade transmutation circles have the same downside of any other transmutation circle, obstructing or destroying them makes them stop functioning, we see this in how lust cut mustangs gloves, conversely if an alchemist with tatoos like scar for example were to have their arm cut their alchemy would stop functioning as well.

  • @ryanratchford2530
    @ryanratchford2530 6 місяців тому +16

    3:00 My friend once told be about an essay he read about the “7 genres of gaming” or modes of play.
    Different ways to engage and enjoy a video game.
    Can’t remember them all but stuff like
    - Relaxation
    - Explore
    - Stimulation
    - Puzzel
    - Escapism
    - Mastery
    Can’t remember properly but there different.
    I think Mastery (a sense of understanding and becoming an expert at a game or skill is why people also like fantasy sci-fi and hard magic. We like deep world building that we can become experts on. Same for hard magic.

  • @Lagetrom
    @Lagetrom 5 місяців тому +8

    Avatar did foreshadow the back hit. During the healing session with Katara, She said that there was lot of energy buildup where the lightning strike hit and when she tried to unleash it Aang had a vision. It was the same spot that hit the rocks and released the energy that connected Aang to the avatarspirit. Also Roku said Aang should defet Ozai before the comet comes not during. There are couple of foreshadows to lionturttles (in the library a book page) and energy ending was "payoff" for Aang seeking alternatives to killing (the unbending character). Though the setup was thin.

    • @viyusavery248
      @viyusavery248 4 місяці тому +1

      The audience did not know a blunt hit can cure energy build up, if they wanted to pay that off they should have foreshadowed with tai lee or something trying to reverse chi block or something then it would have been better

  • @chrishall5570
    @chrishall5570 4 місяці тому +10

    Correct me if I'm misunderstanding something but I'm reading Fullmetal Alchemist right now and it does explain all of the things you mentioned at least in the manga. I forget if some of this is in the anime and if it its does towards the end of the series.
    Fullmetal Alchemist Spoilers:
    The energy comes from the movement of the tectonic plates in the Earth though I will say its never an issue until they encounter Father.
    And one of the things the entire series is about is dealing with homunculus who in effect are alchemy made humans. It's bad because you have to kill so many other humans to do it successfully and if you do it unsuccessfully you end up like Ed and Al losing parts of your body to Truth to make up for the fact you can't really give something of equal value to a human soul and the persons soul isn't around anymore to work with.
    Or if you go the first anime's route human transmutation is bad because it results in not that person coming back to life but a new person being created in the body used. In which case all of the energy for transmutation comes from a parallel Earth.

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  4 місяці тому +3

      I haven't read the manga, so I can't speak for it. I also haven't watched the first anime, only Brotherhood. And again I loved the show. It was a lot of fun and dived into a lot of interesting ideas, both magical and morals. In this video I'm just talking about how the transmutation magic in general isn't used in a hard magic way even though it's presented as this magic with lots of rules.
      My point being that no matter how well explained and diverse the rules to a magic system are, if they don't create obstacles for our characters, it isn't hard. The story says you need a transmutation circle but in the first scene Ed shows us that you don't. It's explained why later, yes, but in that moment this is purely a soft way to use the magic. The story tells us that to create something you must have something in equal exchange, but again we don't really see how this causes obstacles for our characters. Ed and Al are never in danger of not having enough of a certain material. They always have the materials they need to win fights. If the show talks about where the energy comes from at the end, I don't really remember it and that's my bad, but again, just because there is a reason behind where the energy comes from doesn't mean it's used in a hard magic way. Our characters never have to worry about losing energy to fight. Because our characters don't really struggle with the limits of the magic and instead struggle with their own inner struggles, it's more of a soft way to use magic.
      At least this is how I see it, and making this differentiation helps me make my own magic systems.

    • @chrishall5570
      @chrishall5570 4 місяці тому +1

      @@moonangel97 Oh okay I get what your saying now.
      Your definitely right about Ed and Al not really facing the weaknesses in the magic system and generally if we do see those weakness its a one off side character.
      Prime example of this being the Silver Alchemist who Scar killed did run into the problem of not have materials to transmute but he showed up and then died in the span of 5 minutes. Its definitely a problem that isn't really encountered as much as you would think it would be.

    • @jksupergamer
      @jksupergamer 4 місяці тому

      @@moonangel97i would argue that fhe rules do cause problems for the characters, just not in the way you would think. The law of equivalent exchange does applies to not only matter but also some less tangible thing like humans. And that i believe is what the law is truly for.
      The story explores how one is to measure what the human soul is worth and if it is even worth anything to be exchanged for. The entire story is ed and elric trying figure out how they can exchange for something human and realizing that the cost is extremely severe.
      And the fact that you cant cheat your way out of that specific thing IS the problem.

  • @terence7025
    @terence7025 6 місяців тому +10

    This was fun, you gave me a few things to consider.
    Foreshadow is difficult, as the creator you know all the rules at play in the background. If you give a reader all those rules they get bored because the story isn't progressing. Take away too many of the misleading rules and you basically announce the ending. Don't give enough and readers are asking, "where did that come from?"
    I still think rules are implied in the terms Hard and Soft. A hard given rule doesn't have any flex, except in the cases of the hard given rules where it can flex. A soft rule, flexes and bends. Then interesting things happen for both when a rule breaks, usually chaos, but a soft rule has farther to bend before a break is expected. And you have to understand the rules before they can be broken.

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  5 місяців тому +1

      All of this is so true! I struggle with foreshadowing so much, especially when I'm excited about my new magic system and I want to explain everything about it to my audience 😅. It really is about finding that perfect balance.

  • @ryanratchford2530
    @ryanratchford2530 6 місяців тому +8

    Good to have you back! I always enjoy your videos. Glad you wanted to approach hard systems differently rather than just repeat the usual video about it.

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  6 місяців тому +1

      Thanks so much! I try to look at things from a unique perspective when coming up with videos since I think a lot of people just regurgitate the same information they heard from someone else. I'm really glad you enjoyed it!

  • @Toothpicklvr
    @Toothpicklvr 5 місяців тому +4

    There are two books series I think have systems you would love: The Inheritance Cycle, and my favorite book series, The Dresden Files.
    IC gives us hard & soft (language-dependant casting vs "I dunno, dragons can do whatever"), while DF has hard rules for the main character, but the soft system gods and other uber-powerful beings use has rules he doesn't yet understand. He's a near-perfect depiction of a Wizard, and I love the writing.

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  5 місяців тому +1

      Thanks so much for the suggestions! I have The Inheritance Cycle on my bookshelf, but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but I'll definitely move that up in priority now! The Dresden Files are on my list to buy some day. So many people have brought them up since I started this channel, I'm really excited to try them out.

  • @DarkDefender1024
    @DarkDefender1024 5 місяців тому +3

    Umm.... this feels game-changing to me. There's a lot of subtlety you uncovered here and I'm gonna have to think about this for a while.

  • @renegadeoz8531
    @renegadeoz8531 17 днів тому

    I consider full metal alchemist a good example of hard magic for the way that transmutation circles work, Roy can yes produce fire with a single snap of his fingers because of the circle but since each circle in fma have to be specific to produce a specific reaction that means the Roy can only produce fire and nothing more, even though he can transmute more then fire he only has that specific circle so when he is put in a place where he is wet or his glove is destroyed he is in a corner, this also applies to Alphonse for a good portion of the show, he wasn’t able to transmute without a circle and he didn’t have circles inscribed into his arm so he carried chalk around and used that but since it takes a while to make those specific circles he usually prepares before hand getting his enemies to a specific area to then use it kinda like a trap. Characters like Edward have very specific restrictions to their all powerful abilities which was that he had to unwillingly sacrifice parts of his physical body to not have to use a circle but he still has the some of the same restrictions as other like he has to make a circle with his hands and he still needs to touch said item with hands. The only characters that don’t follow most of the rules that were set in place by the show were Edwards dad and the villain known as father but those two are the oldest known characters (out living generations) and they were the first people to really discover alchemy which after they spent their whole lives to the sciences so it makes sense that they found ways to bypass most of the rules even being able to transmute to a scale great then any other characters in the show. It’s a lot like Harry Potter but we don’t see Edward struggle with doing alchemy we instead see him outsmart his enemies with his alchemy and using it in smart ways, his dad and the villain father are like Gandalf and Voldemort we don’t know what they will do but we know it will be big or powerful

  • @NumaGuy
    @NumaGuy 5 місяців тому +2

    Great video! Generally I tend to gravitate towards books with a soft magic system in them as most hard magics tend to revolve around a singular main hero character growing within the rules, and I generally like the world building, societal complexity and moral dilemmas that soft magic usually comes with.
    But hands down my favourite hard magic system is in Wheel of Time! You start off with simple rules; 5 elements, 2 different and opposite ways magic is wielded. And as the story progresses, the heroes learn to master their niches and even perform miracles that still fit into the system because of how everything is foreshadowed if you reread all the hints! I truly felt satisfied when these epic moments happened because i felt the characters truly worked hard to achieve them

  • @ScritRighter
    @ScritRighter 6 місяців тому +2

    Been loving the content! I was writing a script with this exact same concept in mind and I am happy that I came to a similar conclusion to you since you seem rather well researched in your opinion.
    The easiest and most succinct way I've found to describe the difference between hard and soft magic is this: "Hard and soft magic is not a binary, it is a spectrum and a scale. The scale is a measure of audience understanding of your magic system. Nothing more, nothing less."
    Many people in my own comment sections often misunderstand (and frustratingly pretend to understand) the difference between hard and soft magic. Freiren, for example is an anime with a hard magic system, but people will often mistake it for soft magic simply because the magic system is simple. As you say, hard magic does not need to be science or realism. It just needs to be consistent and understandable. If the audience can expect and understand the effects of the magic system, then it is hard magic. If not, then it is soft magic. If hard magic has some elements which are vague or undescribed, it is a hard magic system with soft elements.
    I could write an entire essay about this in your comment section, but I'd basically be writing the same essay twice lmao. Great video either way!

  • @unseenasymptote4976
    @unseenasymptote4976 6 місяців тому +5

    I really like your interpretation of what hard and soft magic! It’s a topic I’ve been thinking about a lot recently.
    However, I think you contradict your own interpretation when you talk about Full Metal Alchemist. What does alchemy do for the audience? Sure, sometimes it creates wonder. But when I think of the best alchemy moments, I think of Edward changing the composition of Greed’s armor, or Mustang using his fire to seal shut his wounds, or Scar deconstructing water to create a steam cover.
    Alchemy is a hard magic system because its appeal comes from how it forces the characters to think creatively and use what’s present in their environment to solve problems.

  • @ajTwist
    @ajTwist 2 місяці тому

    The Slayers. A magic and dragon anime. comedy. One of my favorites. Their magic comes from ancient demons and gods. They eventually meet a demon and use magic from that demon to fight it but the magic doesn't work. They later learn of a strong deity but also learn of it's dangers. They do other cool stuff with that logic but I wish they went more in-depth with their magic system.

  • @AkodoGarou
    @AkodoGarou 5 місяців тому +2

    Yay! You're back! But will update post watching!
    Update: Appreciate your take and explanations of Hard/Soft Magic, and it not being a flu-induce ramble at all, haha. Always helps to see another perspective on the convoluted subject.

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  5 місяців тому

      Thanks so much! Glad I could help a little!

  • @TheUglyGoblin
    @TheUglyGoblin 6 місяців тому +1

    On,y just started but love your initial breakdown on what Hard and Soft magics systems are. Brilliant :3

  • @sebastienparadis9115
    @sebastienparadis9115 5 місяців тому

    This reminds of magician apprentice and magician master from Raymond E. Feist.
    He is actually real good at mastering his mind and does kill a troll in the first book by drowning him, but then he can't cast spells, like at all because he does not understand his magic. It is not until half of the second book that he really becomes a magician. This story is my favorite of all the books i read, but i almost quit reading after the first half of the first book. Keeping up and all the efforts finish by paying off and this is so satisfying when he realise his true power.

  • @lancelewis9114
    @lancelewis9114 5 місяців тому +1

    I'd say that Hard vs Soft is more about how well defined the system is. Higher number of rules is often misinterpreted as being more well defined, but the area inside a square can be defined by either a single rule ("the area inside this square") or 5 rules ("the area which meets the following conditions"; "the area the the right of this line"; etc.). More rules doesn't inherently mean more well defined, even though a well defined system often has many rules.

  • @balarion539
    @balarion539 5 місяців тому +3

    Two things about FMA getting a transmutation circle allows you to do only what that circle does, hence why mustang always lights things on fire. The second is that the energy used in a transmutation is human souls from a parallel universe.

    • @AtaraxianWist
      @AtaraxianWist 5 місяців тому +1

      Okay so I don't know where you got souls from a parallel reality. Or where I missed it. I only watched the anime, though, so maybe that's it.

    • @balarion539
      @balarion539 5 місяців тому

      @@AtaraxianWist to be fair I don't know if that's considered cannon but that's the explanation from one of the FMA movies

    • @Akigirl2004
      @Akigirl2004 5 місяців тому +2

      The souls that died in a war from another world (that looks suspiciously like ours) is from the FMA anime the came out in 2003. It caught up to the manga and, instead of waiting, they did their own thing. FMA Brotherhood follows closely to the manga from beginning to end and does not have the other world.

    • @jibrilnoflugel1702
      @jibrilnoflugel1702 3 місяці тому +1

      @@balarion539 Thats not cannon. The brohterhood anime, and as i recall the manga too, say that, in Amestris, they used tectonic energy from continental plates moving.
      But Father altered that with the nationwide transmutation circle so it would use his philosopher stone as fuel. Thats why he could shut down alchemy, because he controlled the fuel.

  • @joaobispo2602
    @joaobispo2602 6 місяців тому +9

    fma is a hard magic system, by the end of the series we know how most edge cases work, we see plenty of times charecters using the rules to their advantage, like having tranmutantion circles in their gloves, or as tatoos. The central conflict of the series is heavily tied to the limitations of said magic system as well. Maybe you went in expecting a more "brainy" show and were disapointed but alchemy is still a very hard magic system, everything has an explanation so the reader can understand what is going on, but sometimes the explanation comes after the fact. Also the energy complaint is ridicolous, come magic doesnt obey the laws of physics in fma? Yes it doesnt obey the laws of physics in any of your other examples either, thats precisely what makes it magic.

  • @86fifty
    @86fifty 6 місяців тому +2

    I like this take, you did a good job of explaining your thoughts! I had always heard that the difference was "the reader is aware of the rules" vs "the reader is not aware of the rules" which is a softer, but similar, version of the dichotomy you presented at the start. The number or even existence-in-universe of rules about how the magic works wasn't the main point, but the knowledge of them. I love the 'proud vs wowed' distinction, too! That's really memorable and snappy.
    This can be a problem when less-skilled, or un-beta-read, authors try to do a hard magic system, but really fumble the explanation part, and then the whole story feels like it's bullying the reader for not knowing things they were never told! Maybe that's just me, trying to read sci-fi when I was too young to have heard of half the tech they were expecting the reader already knew...
    PS - I don't think your audio is terrible, just a bit overall low. When this happens in videos, the choice to have some BGM really goes a long way to making the sound overall pleasant, so you did a good with that choice!

  • @mattahrens5338
    @mattahrens5338 5 місяців тому

    This is a great explanation, I really love stories with both hard and soft. Done like Harry Potter or LOTR or even Wheel of Time.

  • @m3vm3
    @m3vm3 5 місяців тому

    Both Avatar and Arcane Ascension are equally hard. I love this so much.

  • @Cker21
    @Cker21 5 місяців тому +1

    Video quality 100, takes 100, knowledge 100. V nice. Ur channel should blow up I can see it

  • @jeremystarling8677
    @jeremystarling8677 5 місяців тому

    Finally someone talking about Arcane Ascension

  • @tobycurrie4499
    @tobycurrie4499 5 місяців тому

    I have some thoughts regarding what you said about the ending of ATLA (which is my favorite show as well). Not that I think you're wrong about how it could've been written better (it definitely could've), but I think there's more to it. Specifically, regarding how being hit in the back caused Aang to not only totally change his approach to the fight, but regain access and gain newfound control of the Avatar State. (This is probably gonna be super long lol)
    I did not totally understand the ending, or even what exactly happened, as a small child when I first watched it. And I think that you're right that it could have been written/foreshadowed more clearly. The lion turtle especially - They (He? It?) showed up late and had cryptic words which I didn't follow as a kid, and Aang's new energybending ability (technicality: it's not spirit-bending, that's the thing in Korra season 2) does dort of come out of nowhere. (The visual effect of light pouring out of both of their bodies was also kind of out of nowhere, but that's not what I digress).
    What I want to focus on though, is why Aang totally transformed as a person and regained the avatar state from hitting a sensitive spot on his body. As an adult who's learned a lot about mental health, trauma, mind-body connections, even Buddhism which is an inspiration for the show, etc, Aang's sudden transformation makes much more sense. And looking back on it, things were more foreshadowed than I first thought.
    Something important about ATLA's bending that isn't neccesarily explicitly stated often is that it is tied directly to an individual's sense of self and, more important to us, their emotions. Powerful bending doesn't exclusively come from lineage, or practicing difficult feats. The truly most powerful are those who know (or believe to know) who they are, their internal motivations, and keep themselves level headed. Zaheer from Korra is a the best example for the sense of self part, but I do think it'd be better to focus on ATLA for this argument. While we don't see his whole arc, Iroh is probably the next best case for how sense of self relates to bending. He's clearly an incredibly powerful bender, and part of that power comes from his understanding of himself - maybe not in an ability to do more powerful bending directly (though that could be argued), but certainly in his approach to the situations he is thrown in, and how he gets himself out of sticky situations.
    An amazing but subtle example of the emotion-bending connection is firebending's connection to breath. IRL, how one is breathing is strongly tied to their emotional state - high activation (ex: panic) makes you breath faster/more erratically, and being calm slows and deepens your breathing. Critically, this relationship goes both ways - intentionally slowing your breathing is one of the most common ways people are taught to calm themselves down in therapy, and is almost always one of the first steps to practicing meditation. We can see from this connection (as well as Iron's approach to situations, Zhao's battle with Aang on the boats in season one, Katara's overall arc tbrough the show, and Toph in general) that mental state and sense of self is critical to bending.
    Katara mentions that there's a large buildup of energy in Aang's back injury at the beginning of season 3 when she's working on healing it. Clearly, Aang was deeply traumatized by almost dying, and that scar is a (literally and emotionally) painful reminder of it. This happens IRL too, where physical marks on ourselves, certain actions or words of others, and/or certain places/environments, among other things, cause us to recall things from our past, including traumas and regrets. And that can be really difficult for many people. It can trigger a flight, fight, or freeze response. Aang's is typically flight, i.e. he runs away from and avoids confronting hardships or uncomfortable truths. We see this in his actions through the whole series: he runs away when he overheard about being sent to a new temple; he flies away from the fisherman who berates him for disappearing in season one (in the episode "the storm"); he jumps out of the giant boulder's way when Toph is teaching him earthbending in season 2; he even runs from his friends at the start of season 3, when he didn't want to accept that he was in a really rough place and needed their support.
    Aang's near-death trauma, regretted actions, and fears about being the Avatar, all become tied to his scar, since all were involved in it's creation. The Avatar State does too, and being unable to fully confront all of this and process it is what makes him unable to access the Avatar State. As the monk who teaches Aang enlightenment was trying to teach him through opening the chakras, unprocessed emotions and trauma are what are holding Aang back from controlling the Avatar State. If he can't let go of what cannot be changed and what he cannot control, then he can't meaningfully access what he CAN control in this world - his own power to affect it.
    Aang shows how much he's grown a lot in season 3. He takes his objectives seriously; clearly states "I'm not running anymore" in reference to the invasion on the Day of Black Sun; sees Zuko for who he really is deep down; and confronts the possibility of being forced to take a life to save others, even if it goes against what he believes to be right. He matures in his understanding of the world and other people.
    Then, he fights Ozai. Confronted with someone who has been a mental roadblock for him for so long, Aang succumbs to the same instinct he's had the whole series for how to deal with serious hardship and trauma:
    He runs away.
    This time, however, running doesn't work. Ozai chases him. He taunts Aang, toys with him, forces him to face him.
    When Aang's scar is hit by that protruding rock, it triggers flashbacks to when he got that scar, which we see as literal cuts to that moment in the show. When he nearly died. Backed into a literal and emotional corner, Aang HAS to face all his emotions, fears, doubts, and intrusive thoughts in that moment. His life (and many more) are on the line again, and he CAN'T run away this time. Not anymore.
    In that moment, he succeeds in dealing with it. Not only that, but he "finds and connects to his true self," so to speak, in that pile of rubble. He works through the "energy" Katara mentioned, and trauma and emotions and pain that were built up in him, which had become connected to that scar. This is what allows him to finally access the avatar state - voluntarily this time - and why he takes a total shift in his approach to the fight at that moment. Now, suddenly, he's in control of the momentum of the fight. He's not running anymore. Not from Ozai; not from his responsibilities to the world; not from his past mistakes. He sees that he is the one in control of his destiny. No one else is.
    Could all of this have been laid out in a manner that would've been more clear to the general population, especially kids, who don't have specific knowledge of how people deal with hardship, trauma, grief, regrets, and emotions? Absolutely. It took me a while to think about all of this, and I wasn't able to put all of this together until I had learned such knowledge from my own life journey with it. The show could've connected these dots a little more concretely with even just one or a few lines of dialogue, or even having the scar be a bigger plot point, like Aang being hit there causing flashbacks at other points in the show. That would've made this much easier to piece together for everyone.
    BUT! The fact that I even can piece this together at all shows how deeply the writers understood these things, that it is so baked in. Not many shows do that. So for that, I think we can cut the writers a little more slack for the ending.

  • @MarkMatthews-x2j
    @MarkMatthews-x2j 2 місяці тому +2

    All I can say is i'm sorry you didn't watch Brotherhood lol

  • @TheUglyGoblin
    @TheUglyGoblin 6 місяців тому +2

    Oooo dayum! You nailed it on the head with Avatar's ending so well 😱 I always felt a little unsatisfied with Avatar's ending but couldn't quite put my finger on it.
    Also loved how you showed up FMA XD I don't mean it though in a "ha! Gotchya!" Kinda way but more so- I've always been a little disappointed with it when others have tried to show it to me. It has always been blown up as this very cool hard magic system by others, but you're totally right- its a soft magic system through and through. It felt so lame that everyone can just write a circle on their hand and that's it- like you think maybe its just the main charcater who can do it- but then no...everyone can? Like- why do they even want philosopher stones in the first place? I assume it's to do with raising the dead or whatever- but still.
    I suppose I should go back for it and just watch it for the story.
    Though the dark undertons and seriousness mashed up with the Seriously kiddy jokes gives me whiplash sometimes 😅 but I suppose that is very common for anime of that time :P
    Absolutely Fantastic video! Well done!

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  6 місяців тому +1

      Thank you for this comment!! I was the most worried to talk about Avatar and FMA for fear of making some people angry 😅 I'm so happy to hear that some others feel the same and that I've helped you see what you didn't like about it!

    • @TheUglyGoblin
      @TheUglyGoblin 6 місяців тому +1

      @@moonangel97 aw of course xD haha I think with the way your points were very fair and well argued. People might be "angry" but I think it will be in the over protective "don't touch my very precious fragile vase/ I cannot accept change" kinda way.

  • @Dragon66898
    @Dragon66898 5 місяців тому

    I call magic systems that have both hard and soft traits medium magic. It’s basically mean this is what we know about said magic system while everything that seems unusual is what they don’t know fully yet.

  • @OlhodeSauron
    @OlhodeSauron 6 місяців тому

    One system that I personally think is an excelente exemple of hard magic system is Code Geass; Even If the differents Geass give a bunch of different and incredible powers to the characters, we have a well balanced "critical thinking, forshadowing and payoff", and the limitations literally shape the flow and pace of story telling and facts in the anime.

  • @dawsonbusenbark3945
    @dawsonbusenbark3945 2 місяці тому

    Not sure if it technically counts as hard magic, but my favorite example of this is from the book Wizards First Rule. It's a high fantasy setting where the MC learns early on that the "first rule" of magic is literally "People are stupid!" - which boils down to people are gullible, so the best/easiest/potentially strongest "magic" is tricking people because they will believe what they are predisposed to believe. The whole rest of the book buries this knowledge with a LOT of different magic systems, prophecies, the Big Bad is literally on the verge of ascending to Godhood... But his plan is foiled because the MC pretends to be doing something against his will when he is really just setting the villain up to fail. For me at least it took me by surprise because what trumps end-of-all-life level spells? Misdirection 🤯 and it's even the title of the book, so I had no excuse for forgetting it (talk about foreshadowing 😂)!

  • @marcbennett9232
    @marcbennett9232 6 місяців тому

    Love your video! also, Sanderson wasnt the first person to use the terms hard and soft magic. they have actually been around for quite a while. what he did do, is standardize what they mean and bring them out into common discourse.
    EDIT: wow you just perfectly explained why I dont like full metal alchemist. thank you for that!

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  6 місяців тому

      I didn't know this! Thank you! I knew Brandon coined it but didn't realize people had already used the term beforehand. I kind of want to do a whole study into the history of hard magic, and when people started giving magic rules but it's definitely a hard topic to research. Also, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video!

    • @marcbennett9232
      @marcbennett9232 6 місяців тому

      @@moonangel97 yeah im not sure where the origins are from. I know ive been using it for 12+ years. I want to say I read an article using the term, but that could be totally off base.

  • @MrTruedragonknight
    @MrTruedragonknight 5 місяців тому +7

    I beg to differ big time on your argument about fullmetal alchemist. Whether you mean the original or brotherhood, every question you asked is answered. I won’t spoil it here but they are all answered.

    • @dubucdark1280
      @dubucdark1280 5 місяців тому +3

      Exactly this! Light spoilers for Brotherhood here btw:
      We see that for a certain process, like fire transmutation You need specific circles, not any circle, that's the whole point of Scar and Roy's alchemy styles
      When an alchemist doesn't have a circle we see characters doing things like making one with blood or cutting their skin to make one, so they do deal with this problem
      And about the energy aspect, we learn later in the series that Souls are a literal source of energy, so all of the arguments she has probably came from misunderstanding or lack of research, at least based in what's seen in Brotherhood

    • @tonytoon98
      @tonytoon98 5 місяців тому

      The fire wizard freezing water does work. If he moves molecules faster to make fire. Him understanding that he can slow them down for ice isn’t crazy

    • @viyusavery248
      @viyusavery248 4 місяці тому

      ​@@dubucdark1280 I don't think her issue is with getting answers
      But rather the root problem encountering "non-equivalent exchange" scenarios this is implied with how she contrast with toph being trapped with no earth and katara having no water
      Alchemist for the most part have and abundance of materials to equate most times

  • @matityaloran9157
    @matityaloran9157 5 місяців тому +3

    18:49, agreed. The Lion-Turtle energy-bending did not work as a conclusion to the show

  • @helloanimepro2166
    @helloanimepro2166 5 місяців тому +1

    14:45 *spoilers for the mistborn* I have a feeling that your talking about how Vin used the mist to power her steel push and when I first read it, it clicked, in the first Sanderson contently describes the movement of the mist and whenever the characters used alomancy the mists always moved around them, like as if it's a alomancy magnet, so I think there was a hard base for what Vin did during her battle with the Lord Ruler
    BTW fyi have not completed the hero's of ages book, everything I have said is based on the first two books so don't give me spoilers for the third book in the replies

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  5 місяців тому

      Absolutely! While I agree that there were hints that the mist was somehow connected to their abilities I don't think it was enough to make the ending satisfying. Let me be clear though, I also don't feel like the ending was bad or came out of nowhere. But I was still left with questions because there wasn't enough evidence to explain exactly why it worked, so if this book was a stand alone book with no others after it, I would be left very unsatisfied with the ending.

  • @FenrirEX
    @FenrirEX 5 місяців тому

    You weren’t as subtle with your Dresden Files reference as you think. :P

    • @moonangel97
      @moonangel97  5 місяців тому

      Um, what part specifically were you referring to? I haven't actually read that series,😅👉🏼👈🏼 Though it's on my reading list. If I referenced it, it wasn't on purpose.

    • @FenrirEX
      @FenrirEX 5 місяців тому

      @@moonangel97 Wizard using fire magic and the mechanics of the setting to create ice?

  • @marcusblacknell-andrews1783
    @marcusblacknell-andrews1783 6 місяців тому

    How would this apply to a “Wizard” subclass in Dungeons and Dragons?

  • @solalabell9674
    @solalabell9674 5 місяців тому

    I disagree it was foreshadowed that vin’s allomancy works different as with the scene where she finds some people in keep venture (best I can do without being more of a spoiler) I actually had the same thought that maybe she could use that power since she’s shown a similar ability

    • @solalabell9674
      @solalabell9674 5 місяців тому

      Actually disregard if this is about where she got the power for that final push I still thought it was neat but had barely any build up

  • @Amipotsophspond
    @Amipotsophspond 27 днів тому

    you say the Avatar ending feels poorly concluded and rushed? what are the elements in Avatar? Water, Earth, Fire, Air What are the names of the Avatar seasons? Book One: Water, Book Two: Earth, Book Three: Fire, and that it only 3 seasons that's what was intended the golden goose was not killed early that would be super embarrassing if it was. Book 4: Air each season was 20 episodes but the last was 21, so perhaps can you Imagine how mad you would be knowing their are actually 20 episodes missing from your child hood and guidance in life. how differently would your life would have turned out with 20 more episodes of Iroh temperance, with Aang's innocent, understanding, and forgiveness, Sokka bravery and growth, Zuko dealing with anger and a difficult parent, can every problem in your life can be traced to missing those episodes absolutely, would your life be better in every way most likely. you know I heard the missing episodes were actually made they are just keeping them from the public, because people would be too well adjusted and not need them or the products they sell you as you try to fill the missing hole in your heart from a lack of those vary episodes. so go get them, take them back fulfill that missing piece of your life and if they cry out in pain that the episodes were never made you will know they are lying because for sure like they lied about the possibility of them ever being made, so they are liars and likely have the episodes hidden somewhere they just need a little more pain. and anything you do that might be viewed as immoral is perfectly justified because you never had the moral guidance of those missing episodes.

  • @ML20-gt2vh
    @ML20-gt2vh 5 місяців тому

    6:08

  • @Meh.357
    @Meh.357 5 місяців тому +1

    Explain to me how Spiderman's powers are magic? HOW IS IT MAGIC?!

    • @JackOvallTrades
      @JackOvallTrades 5 місяців тому +5

      Okay... since you asked. I'll explain.
      When you get bitten by a spider, do you get superpowers?
      Has anyone on Earth ever gotten superpowers from being bitten by a spider?
      Will anyone ever get bitten by a spider and gain superpowers?
      No.
      It's something impossible that the story pretends IS possible for the sake of adding a sense of the fantastic. For authors, it's applying predictability to use that fantasy to solve problems that makes a magic system.
      If you asked Spiderman himself if his powers were magic, he would say no. But to anyone in OUR real world, it's something magical. That's what she means, and it's a definition she's explained in other videos.

    • @Meh.357
      @Meh.357 5 місяців тому

      @JackOvallTrades That just means that perspectively it's magic, but it isn't magic fundamentally, spiderman isn't using some mystical energy, and by the logic that his having supernatural abilities is magic, Superman has magic, Invincible has magic because their powers aren't natural, but it can't be magic, but to them it isn't magic, it's their natural abilities so your definition is flawed as it's "only magic" perspectively to us, but it isn't magic inherently it just appears that way. An aeroplane flying isn't magic no matter how many medieval peasants say it is, because for something to be magic, it needs to be stated to be magic, some form of supernatural energy fuelling this magic, or item, but Spiderman's powers don't fit that. It's not magic.
      She proceeds to show Peter making web fluid as some form of magic as Peter learns how to use his magic. If I were to make web fluid is that magic? If I was born with some extra organ that fires superheated air and plasma it's not magic, but just because you say it's magic, it doesn't make it a magic system, and speaking of magic system it isn't? Like what magic system does Spiderman's powers fall under? What it's called? He isn't a mutant, so what? Technically mutants don't have a magic system, it's all just racial abilities, tell me do dolphins have a magic system because of their echolocation and sensory abilities?

    • @JackOvallTrades
      @JackOvallTrades 5 місяців тому +2

      @Meh.357 Her channel is a writing channel. Meant to give advice to authors. So, yes, an author's perspective on the supernatural is all that matters. Spiderman's powers aren't possible in our world, yet in his world they have rules, limits, and predictability. To an AUTHOR that's a magic system. Superman and Invincible, as well as any character in any story that has impossible abilities, can also be considered to have magic from an author's perspective. A dolphin using echolocation in our world isn't magic, because we know how echolocation works. But if someone made a story about a dolphin apprentice learning from his dolphin master to wield the power of echolocation to defeat his enemies, it would then become the magic system of that story.
      The point of the video is to identify, explain, and discuss how you can use fantastical elements in your story, not to debate whether or not Spiderman thinks his powers are mystical. Spiderman's powers follow the same story structure rules as any other story with *magic*, which is why it's included.

    • @Meh.357
      @Meh.357 5 місяців тому

      @JackOvallTrades Yeah, you just didn't listen to what I said, I said just because something can be perspectively seen as magic doesn't make it magic, it gives off the illusion, hence the aeroplane peasant example, we know nothing magical is permeating around the aeroplane it's just engineering like how we know that Viltrumites are strong and can fly naturally, you can't just say its magical, because you see it as so, there's no magical system to be had when you're super strong and fast, and can fly? My point is that, if your perspective views something as magic, it doesn't inherently mean it is magic. Goku tanking rocket launchers as a kid off-guard is a feat impossible because you'd be blown to pieces and melted, but to call that magic, when he's just durable makes no sense to me.
      Like, I survived being thrown into the sun because of my species innate heat resistance, or so dumb shit. Would you go and say, "That's magic! You did magic! Your heat resistance is a magic system!" ??? Having limitations to your powers doesn't make it a magic system, it balances the hero.
      Magic is magic when it's stated to be so.

    • @JackOvallTrades
      @JackOvallTrades 5 місяців тому

      @Meh.357 I think we might have to just agree to disagree here. While I (somewhat) agree that an aeroplane isn't really magic, you used Viltromites in the same sentence, which I don't agree with. If Viltromites had wings, then it's arguable it's not magic, because it's reasonable to believe their held aloft by physics close enough to our real-world science. But they don't. They just fly in any direction they want at will.
      The aeroplane example isn't really magic, but if you wrote from the perspective of a peasant, it's arguable that modern science could be written as a magic system as well. (The Webcomic "Scurry" is the closest example I know of to this).
      Defining Magic as: "Whatever is stated to be magic" is a very poor definition, at least in terms of writing. It's more useful to figure out what different magic systems (and power systems) have in common and define it that way. As was the point of most of Moon's videos.
      Also, defining magic as what is defined as magic also goes directly against your point of the aeroplane. The peasant in the story defines it as magic, so its magic. If your perspective character is the peasant, the audience and the peasant have no choice but to see it as magic.

  • @rilohoneu6030
    @rilohoneu6030 Місяць тому

    I'm sorry but your take on FMA is so wrong.
    1. Mustang is the only person who knows the rest of the formula to do his magic rhe glove is just for convenience. Also if it's wet or raining he can't use it
    2. Ed and other alchemists can skip the circles do to special circumstances that are fully explained.
    3. The energy used for alchemy is ALSO Explained by the ending and tells you where the energy to do alchemy comes from , like it's literally what the whol anime is about. Did you even watch it? I'm geniuely wondering.

  • @goricaboy7103
    @goricaboy7103 2 місяці тому

    you need a new mic

  • @opinionofmine3238
    @opinionofmine3238 6 місяців тому

    I think your approach and interpretation confuse the goal for what the thing is and in a sense make successfully executing X a prerequisite to be X. I think you can have hard magic systems whose goal is the "wow" factor and soft magic systems who go for the feeling of accomplishment, even if that's not typically what those are built to do. The foundation of a hard or soft magic system, in my eyes, is not "how many" rules a magic system has, but the degree of understanding rules give as to how the magic operates, namely what it can accomplish and its limitations (which in turn also implies/factors in how limited the system is if only because saying 'everything can be accomplished' by give you a crystal clear of limitations and what magic can accomplish on a technicality but in practice there's nothing to give it predictability or expectations). A person can have a complete understanding of how a magic system works while the story focuses on the marvel or terror of what it accomplishes rather than creative puzzle-solving or a story can give you a very poor understanding of the actual nature or capabilities of magic or powers while the characters try to navigate this creatively using their limited understanding of it. I would argue that the former is a hard magic system and the later a soft magic system, but going for the opposite feelings of how these stories are normally executed.
    I don't think, for instance, that the Harry Potter magic system could really be considered a hard magic system and the reason for that is that we're never given a reason why Harry would have to be limited to the few spells we see him use on screen. Yes, he is a student with limited knowledge of magic, but he's also over time a graduate wizard from a wizard school he spent years in with spells who might take more time to master but couldn't possibly take more than a day or two to learn, and no apparent limitations on magic could theoretically do. A single step back from a blind acceptance of him only using the spells we happen to see reveals he should logically have a portfolio of hundreds of spells at his command and he barely uses any despite it having no cost to use for the most part. You could say this makes Harry (and the rest of the cast) incredibly stupid or call it a plothole, or alternatively the system without limitations or any understanding of it beyond certain individual spells is not actually a hard magic system and while we can derive satisfaction from seeing it used in creative ways the system itself doesn't ask us to have expectations of what the characters can theoretically accomplish. We're mean to always assume there's a lot more to the magic than we're ever explained and that if something just doesn't work or just isn't used, that there is a reason but beyond our grasp.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    As a complete sidenote, I also think you were a bit too harsh on Fullmetal Alchemist. I don't like defending that show, but you kind of applied things with double standards when you talked about this, where in previous parts you compartimentalized the magic systems where they had softer and harder parts, you took the alchemy system as a whole for your classification, especially considering that even things you mentioned as making it softer (permanently tattooed/drawn alchemy circles) are pretty clearly a creative workaround that still fits inside the rule and not something that breaks it. Where it is broken for the protagonists it's established early on and thus yes works as an exception to the wider magic system but in practice the characters are just working under slightly different limitations than most and still solving problems within those limitations for the accomplishment factor. Where the energy comes from is both explained in the show, not a question you seemingly asked of anything else (Avatar for instance), and more of a logic gap than a case of "this makes the magic focus more on the wow factor than accomplishment".
    Full Metal alchemist does have things that are more soft, admittedly, though it's pretty much entirely concentrated on antagonists (like homunculi and Truth) and even then if memory serves me right those grow harder as their powers are eventually explained and they start making creative applications within their individual limitations their focus. Well, with perhaps some exceptions in those being of ultimate power.