This is a superb explanation and settles an argument on another forum, where one person says mechanical shutters cannot go faster than 1/200s. This was a discussion on the renew XCD V lenses where the 38v and 55v specification states 1/2000s is possible, and the 90v where the specs says 1/4000s ! It would be great to see a follow up with these lenses on the X2D at these flash speeds. Thank you very much.
I kind of knew all of this, but seeing real live examples really cements in my head what and why I would do things differently regarding the shutter settings in different situations. Excellent video.
The leaf shutter exposure of the XCD lenses and orange dot HCD lenses is in fact a hybrid type (older non orange dot HCD lenses are purely mechanical but limited at 1/800 s) These lenses have a mechanical leaf shutter with a shortest speed of 1/1000s. To obtain faster speeds up to 1/2000s the body delays the sensor activation up to 0,5 ms to obtain an exposure of 1/2000s. For example at 1/2000s the shutter exposes 1/1000s but during the first 0,5ms the sensor is not activated leaving for the sensor only 1/2000s of the 1/1000s shutter opening. If you don't want to loose power with relatively slow studio flashes, you have to deactivate "true exposure" in the shutter menu. As real exposure changes with aperture on a purely mechanical leaf shutter, "true exposure" makes a speed correction depending on the aperture setting used. "true exposure" is not compatible with speeds in hybrid modus at 1/1000s and faster and is deactivated by the camera itself when these speed s are used.
Hybrid exposure performance goes even higher with the Hasselblad A6 aerial reflex that is a variation of the H6. A6 shortest speed is 1/4000s with a more delayed sensor activation in the same 1/1000s leaf shutter opening slot. According to Hasselblad engineers this fast speed can only be obtained with carefull and precision calibration of body and lens shutter.
Always helpful and clear. Thanks once again for your attention to detail. I was waiting for you to mention the disadvantages of the leaf shutter (only thing missing in this video - unless I missed it).
Another brilliant and educational video difference between leaf shutter and mechanical shutters. Have a brilliant healthy Christmas 🎄 with your family and friends and continued success in 2022.
from a Hassy forum (not my word): No MF leaf shutter goes up to 1/4000s ! The shutters are mechanically limited to 1/1000s and faster expositions are obtained by an "electronic first curtain" emulation based on a delayed sensor activation after shutter blades are open. For 1/1000s expositions and slower the sensor is activated just before shutter blades opening. This technique is already employed on H6D and orange dot lenses and X cameras with XCD lenses to go up to 1/2000s and the A6D with its modified H6 basis and H lenses to go up to 1/4000s. Some time ago a Hasselblad technical eng said that it would be possible to go up to 1/4000s with X cameras amd XCD lenses by a precision calibration between camera and lenses timings. (leaf shutter working at 1/1000s and sensor activation delayed by 3/4000s)
On the Fuji x100v the leaf shutter can synch with flash to 1/2000”, but at apertures smaller than f/4.5 it can synch at 1/4000”. Am I right to conclude that the shutter leafs do not open fully when the aperture is smaller and thus travel less distance? Is this coupling of shutter opening to aperture unique to the x100v or is it also found in other leaf shutter cameras?
Great video. I hoped to gain insight into why the X1D can't utilize a group flash commander, and if using a focal plane shutter is a solution. If a group commander can't be used, then what are the work-around options? How about a flash trigger? Other? Thanks!
Yes - I saw that too. My guess is its over-exposed reflections centrally from a white wall in the background with only a bit more than 1m distance from camera to wall plus I did not adjust a diffuser on the flash. Well spotted and thx for the positive feedback.
Can you tell me whats flash trigger can we use for LS system? On market alot of trigger pro or advance but jas for HSS system...i dont find them for LS system🙏🏿
Great video! In the leaf shutter, since it is "open" all the time (at least partially) - why isn't the exposure level different for different parts of the image? Some parts of the image are being exposed "longer"? Or does the capture "correct" for it?
The entire image is exposed regardless of the size of the shutter opening. Similar to aperture setting... it is more like fade in/fade out exposure shutter.
Why does the leaf shutter in the lens have "infinite" life? It should be the same as mechanical shutter in the camera body (adjusted for relative quality)
There's an incorrect interpretation @14:16. The fan was not frozen by a 1/2000s shutter, but by the flash. A flash duration can be 1/20000s, which is much shorter than shutter speed. This technique is commonly used in commercial photography to freeze moving objects at high speed. On the photo, one can see a light track of LED on the top. That was actually "frozen" by 1/2000s shutter, which is obviously not "sharp and clear".
Completely agree, the flash froze the blade and the 1/2000s shutter allowed the light trail of the led light. In fairness you don’t get the banding he spoke of with the electronic shutter though
Will a global electronic shutter make the leaf shutter irrelevant? In theory a global electronic shutter should be able to sync at any shutter speeds, right?
Based on the leaf shutter construction as explained in the video, no rolling shutter with leaf shutter as you could see when freezing the fan blade movement with 1/2000sec and the Nikon Speedlight flash.
Rolling shutter effect can occur with a focal plane shutter and very fast moving subjects (all points of the sensor are not exposed at the same time) but cannot happen with a leaf shutter because all the surface of the sensor is exposed at the same time.
240fps is the max on almost all smartphones. I used the Huawei P40 Pro+ and clearly they use computational photography to get this in somewhat acceptable form :)
Hi Marc, there should be no audio issues, I watched the whole video again on a big TV in the YT app, all good. Maybe a connection problem with network? In any case, sorry to hear sound was with interruptions.
This is a superb explanation and settles an argument on another forum, where one person says mechanical shutters cannot go faster than 1/200s. This was a discussion on the renew XCD V lenses where the 38v and 55v specification states 1/2000s is possible, and the 90v where the specs says 1/4000s ! It would be great to see a follow up with these lenses on the X2D at these flash speeds. Thank you very much.
I kind of knew all of this, but seeing real live examples really cements in my head what and why I would do things differently regarding the shutter settings in different situations. Excellent video.
The leaf shutter exposure of the XCD lenses and orange dot HCD lenses is in fact a hybrid type (older non orange dot HCD lenses are purely mechanical but limited at 1/800 s)
These lenses have a mechanical leaf shutter with a shortest speed of 1/1000s. To obtain faster speeds up to 1/2000s the body delays the sensor activation up to 0,5 ms to obtain an exposure of 1/2000s. For example at 1/2000s the shutter exposes 1/1000s but during the first 0,5ms the sensor is not activated leaving for the sensor only 1/2000s of the 1/1000s shutter opening.
If you don't want to loose power with relatively slow studio flashes, you have to deactivate "true exposure" in the shutter menu. As real exposure changes with aperture on a purely mechanical leaf shutter, "true exposure" makes a speed correction depending on the aperture setting used.
"true exposure" is not compatible with speeds in hybrid modus at 1/1000s and faster and is deactivated by the camera itself when these speed s are used.
Hybrid exposure performance goes even higher with the Hasselblad A6 aerial reflex that is a variation of the H6. A6 shortest speed is 1/4000s with a more delayed sensor activation in the same 1/1000s leaf shutter opening slot. According to Hasselblad engineers this fast speed can only be obtained with carefull and precision calibration of body and lens shutter.
Thanks Jean-Claude, very valuable and interesting comment. Insightful.
Always helpful and clear. Thanks once again for your attention to detail. I was waiting for you to mention the disadvantages of the leaf shutter (only thing missing in this video - unless I missed it).
As a wedding photographer since 'way back', very familiar with leaf shutters.....Crown Graphic, Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, RB67, etc.
Very well explained tutorial! I really enjoyed this as it gave me a lot of insight. Leaf shutters are indeed amazing.
Thank you Lucy, all the best for the seasonal holidays and a good start into 2022.
@@mathphotographer Wishing you all the very best during the holidays and in 2022 Math!
Another brilliant and educational video difference between leaf shutter and mechanical shutters. Have a brilliant healthy Christmas 🎄 with your family and friends and continued success in 2022.
Thank you very much and likewise, Merry Xmas and a happy new year!
from a Hassy forum (not my word): No MF leaf shutter goes up to 1/4000s !
The shutters are mechanically limited to 1/1000s and faster expositions are obtained by an "electronic first curtain" emulation based on a delayed sensor activation after shutter blades are open.
For 1/1000s expositions and slower the sensor is activated just before shutter blades opening.
This technique is already employed on H6D and orange dot lenses and X cameras with XCD lenses to go up to 1/2000s and the A6D with its modified H6 basis and H lenses to go up to 1/4000s.
Some time ago a Hasselblad technical eng said that it would be possible to go up to 1/4000s with X cameras amd XCD lenses by a precision calibration between camera and lenses timings. (leaf shutter working at 1/1000s and sensor activation delayed by 3/4000s)
Finally, I understand; very instructive‼️thanks
Thx :)
On the Fuji x100v the leaf shutter can synch with flash to 1/2000”, but at apertures smaller than f/4.5 it can synch at 1/4000”.
Am I right to conclude that the shutter leafs do not open fully when the aperture is smaller and thus travel less distance? Is this coupling of shutter opening to aperture unique to the x100v or is it also found in other leaf shutter cameras?
Great video!! Thank you for sharing Pro!!
Great video. I hoped to gain insight into why the X1D can't utilize a group flash commander, and if using a focal plane shutter is a solution. If a group commander can't be used, then what are the work-around options? How about a flash trigger? Other? Thanks!
Very good explanation.
Thanks!
Great explanation! What is the explanation for the heavy vignette/light fall-of tiwards the edges in the first flash shot?
Yes - I saw that too. My guess is its over-exposed reflections centrally from a white wall in the background with only a bit more than 1m distance from camera to wall plus I did not adjust a diffuser on the flash. Well spotted and thx for the positive feedback.
Can you tell me whats flash trigger can we use for LS system? On market alot of trigger pro or advance but jas for HSS system...i dont find them for LS system🙏🏿
Great video!
In the leaf shutter, since it is "open" all the time (at least partially) - why isn't the exposure level different for different parts of the image? Some parts of the image are being exposed "longer"? Or does the capture "correct" for it?
The entire image is exposed regardless of the size of the shutter opening. Similar to aperture setting... it is more like fade in/fade out exposure shutter.
It just occurred to me the only true global shutter we had was a leaf shutter on film.
A lot of compact cameras with integrated lenses also use leaf shutters. There are also video and machine vision cameras with global shutters.
Why does the leaf shutter in the lens have "infinite" life? It should be the same as mechanical shutter in the camera body (adjusted for relative quality)
There's an incorrect interpretation @14:16. The fan was not frozen by a 1/2000s shutter, but by the flash. A flash duration can be 1/20000s, which is much shorter than shutter speed. This technique is commonly used in commercial photography to freeze moving objects at high speed. On the photo, one can see a light track of LED on the top. That was actually "frozen" by 1/2000s shutter, which is obviously not "sharp and clear".
I should have expressed myself more precisely, thanks for pointing out.
Completely agree, the flash froze the blade and the 1/2000s shutter allowed the light trail of the led light. In fairness you don’t get the banding he spoke of with the electronic shutter though
Will a global electronic shutter make the leaf shutter irrelevant? In theory a global electronic shutter should be able to sync at any shutter speeds, right?
Any effect on rolling shutter from using a leaf shutter?
Based on the leaf shutter construction as explained in the video, no rolling shutter with leaf shutter as you could see when freezing the fan blade movement with 1/2000sec and the Nikon Speedlight flash.
Rolling shutter effect can occur with a focal plane shutter and very fast moving subjects (all points of the sensor are not exposed at the same time) but cannot happen with a leaf shutter because all the surface of the sensor is exposed at the same time.
What phone are you using? It seems to be faking its 700 FPS from something closer to 120 or 240 FPS.
240fps is the max on almost all smartphones. I used the Huawei P40 Pro+ and clearly they use computational photography to get this in somewhat acceptable form :)
At least Samsung S9 series definitely have real 960 FPS by only using the central part of the sensor.
Excuse me: but both focal plane and leaf shutters are MECHANICAL!!!!!!
anyone else having audio issues (interruptions?)
Hi Marc, there should be no audio issues, I watched the whole video again on a big TV in the YT app, all good. Maybe a connection problem with network? In any case, sorry to hear sound was with interruptions.
@@mathphotographer sorry I bothered - the problem was on my side. love your work & reviews. gruess us züri
true photography camera only comes with leaf shutter.
the rest is simply junk even if it's expensive.
:)
Sorry, Nikons new system is named „Z“ not „C“ as you pronounce Z wrong!🙈
ua-cam.com/video/acFGLNpRNHc/v-deo.html - thx for the education :)