The conclusion is that whatever the British people say, they mean the opposite of what they say. When they think something is bad, they say, "That's brilliant". When they are not interested, they say, "This is interesting". When they mean something is compulsory, they say it is optional.
If we try to understand this comment (your comment ) in and according to the context of the video, this might mean never look out for the next video! LOL But honestly, very useful video !
How true! It was very difficult, for me, to learn how to be diplomatic. My first meeting with my manager was very frustrating. She was so diplomatic that I didn’t have a clue what she was saying. I finally asked her to tell me what I did wrong in plain English so I could do my job correctly. She did and I learned. I asked at the end of the meeting to please just tell me when I make a mistake. I explained my feelings will not be hurt because this is what I am getting paid for and need to learn. Our coaching sessions were cut in half after that. As a German I believe, as long as you are respectful it is not a problem. Take responsibility for mistakes you made, learn from them, no excuses, move on.
You are not polite people maybe you like to think so i find English people dishonest and rude For some strange reason you think you are more clever than other and you can talk down to us oh I’m so polite why do you think we can’t recognize you lying
In my youth, I was an au-pair in a half-British/half-German family. It was my first experience with foreigners. I suspected that they were different but I had no idea how much and in what way. The mother of the family was from the UK (Scotland, actually) and she was very evasive about my duties besides playing with her child. So, as a young active Ukrainian girl, I assumed that I should be "the eldest daughter" of the family. In my country, it means to help with the household work. So, I started cleaning, ironing, washing dishes - not all the time but when I considered it necessary. The family didn't seem to mind it and the woman praised me and thanked, calling me "our saviour". I felt uncomfortable about that "savior" thing but I thought it was her way of showing her gratitude. When I returned home, I learned that the woman started complaining about me to all family's friends, that I was a very interfering, dramatic person and wanted to show that I was better than them. But I just loved that family and wanted to be as useful as possible... It hurt my feelings very badly. Now, when I am older and have some experience with the foreigners, I know that I trespassed private borders in my overhelpfulness but I am still wondering why not just to tell directly that you don't like what the other person is doing 🤷♀️
I'm Scottish and i don't think how that woman responded to you is a usual Scottish way of behaving. I think she was rude, dishonest, and has some personality flaws and failings. I would also say she is someone who is unskilled and inexperienced at employing other people. It seems it was a difficult time for you through no fault of your own.
Because the germans/ anglosaxons are not like us, slavic people. I call them fake, not all, but in general. My experience. But in general they are more polite then us, let's be honest 😂
I don't think meeting one person you can judge all the rest. People are different. Relationship is different. Someone can hurt, someone makes you happy, everything is very individual.
100%. Im Scottish living and working in England. I am constantly referred to as aggressive and it's literally just being honest and direct. It's genuinely upsetting and horrible.
That happens to many of us English people too, especially those of us in the more northern parts of the country, if we move south for our career or whatever. The so-called 'Home' counties aren't MY home counties and never could be!
If you are too direct for a culture, any culture, then you (or I) should try and adapt. It doesn’t matter if that culture is English, Japanese, Tahitian, whatever. The onus is on you to be what is considered acceptable in that culture.
I’m an Aussie who lived in the UK for over a decade. When they are about to leave and without any promoting they suggest that “ we need to meet up soon” , “How about you come over?” “ We need to go here/do this, together.” and you would never hear from these people again or get the invite to do whatever they suggested! It used to drive me crazy. Why on earth are you going out of your way, with zero prompting on my part, to suggest we meet up when you have no intention whatsoever! I think it’s quite rude actually. Aussies would never do that. If I don’t genuinely want to meet up again, I keep my mouth shut. There is absolutely no reason to say anything other than bye 😂 I also notice how they will sit there with the elephant in the room. What they say and what they really think can be two different things. I felt it freeing returning to Australia and being able to be direct and speak my mind. My English husband has shocked me, he is now direct too 😂
This might be a southern English thing. The London area has numerous work related language customs that are alien to the rest of the country. Due to the intensely competitive nature of work and life generally, where people are reluctant to draw firm social lines in the knowledge they may encounter the individual or his/her acquaintances in a work setting again.
It's not like that everywhere here. I came across it once and found it quite confusing until I realised, "You really must come and visit sometime" doesn't mean anything of the sort, unless you are given a date and time to visit. Also, "See you later" usually just means goodbye, it doesn't mean we'll meet later unless you've already arranged to meet later.
That's fickle and insincere behaviour, you get that more in Spain and the U.S.A. (I've worked in both those countries) but I've spotted a few of these type more so in offices in central London but I keep away.
I am an Aussie that has lived here for 40 years. I married an English guy who is very polite but takes my breath away when he honestly speaks his mind. Brutal. I still get pulled up for speaking my mind. In the workplace it is passive aggressive central and painful. The pecking order so noticeable. I enjoy working for a German company. They are more direct and the debates heated and refreshing. Also the further north you go in the UK the friendlier the people.
Hi I'm a European, have lived in the UK for over 2 decades :-) They say things like "you should come over for dinner one night" " or "we need to meet up soon", because they want to impress you. They think "it's a nice thing to say". But I am the opposite: it is lying if you don't mean it, and lying doesn't impress me. The problem with the British "diplomatic" behaviour is that sometimes they DO mean it, but you will never know when.
I spent over ten years in the UK altogether and noticing what I call "cultural differences" was very enjoyable. I love your sarcasm and your sense of humor. I admire your strong bond to politeness.. I remember once saying "Don't you thing saying "please" in almost every sentence is a bit of a waste of energy?" And now, as a part-time teacher of English I try really hard to explain to my young adult students that if you don't say "please" when you make a request people may think you were a barbarian and that the question "What do you want" is much too direct. But the most hilarious story I heard was about one non native young lady who got really upset at work one day because everybody was asking how she was and nobody wanted to listen to her answer.
Also in Sweden it’s very common to ask someone you meet how it’s going. It’s supposed to answer just briefly Just fine, thank you, not begin to explain in detail some health problems or anything else. 😂
Yes!!!! The first time the guy at the till asked me: are you all right? I started to wonder: do I look ill? :))) And yes: please and thank you and sorry, every time, for every little thing. When I am really greatful, or when I am really pleading, or when I am really, genuinely sorry, I do not know how to convey it, as the: thank you, sorry, and please are so overused for trivialities. (Also: fabulous! You are a star! Marvellous! - for trivialities again. I feel so put down when I hear it.)
I am Russian naturalised Brit since 2008. Don't have British friends except that one of my daughters boyfriend is British. But I work in customer services and deal with people of all nationalities and walks of life. One rule of thumb I elaborated myself in my work: ANY important matter must be IN WRITING & SAVED. It is my way of covering myself in case of any dispute. And I am very specific and formal (deliberately boring) in my emals and letters. It helps. If I relied on spoken word and verbal agreements - I would have been in massive troubles
That's right. In Lithuania when I was dealing with my customers I never had any problems when having verbal agreements (of course I am good in who to deal with and don't do business with random people). In UK even selling cigarettes block brought from duty free to local people from my work when we initially agreed way way before the deal was supposed to happen, it was mega difficult. It was in their favour to save some money instead of buying 2x more expensive local fags, but they were just disappearing, not replying or ignoring 😀 Even when they say we'll speak later after spending a lot of time with you, this is just a lie 😄 0 british friends until now and I prefer to stay away from them 😀
In an actual UK visa application form were the words You might want to attach supporting documents. This actually meant if you don't attach supporting documents, your visa application will be denied. This doesn't just catch out non English first language speakers. It catches out American, Australian, Canadian and South African English first language speakers.
The undertone is there’s a set of rules/ways of doing things out there and you’d better follow my advice here. It’s a typical passive aggressive tone. As an Asian living in London for twenty years I still don’t fully understand tones like this. It makes me feel uncomfortable but I sometimes use the same tone too, in a bid to feel more assimilated. I will stop doing to others what makes me feel uncomfortable.
I have sat in meetings with British people and just wished they would say no, instead of going silent or obfuscating. Its quite tedious and a slow and confusing way to make group decisions. A New Zealander's perspective.
I’m from Barcelona, Spain been living in UK 🇬🇧 since 2007. I love the British people. First few months living here i remember crossing people on the street and they’d say ‘you alright?’ And I would stop and explain how I was, what’s happening in my life etc 😅 Eventually I learnt ‘you alright?’ means ‘hi I don’t have time to speak or I don’t want to’
Absolutely, the same with how do you do? or How are you? All you have to say, I’m very well, thank you. No other answer is required. And please say it with a smile. 😁😆
I agree with much of what you say BUT I would suggest a lot of these behaviours that you describe are only how the London middle-classes speak and especially in the office context. We are not all the same in England, as a Yorkshireman (call me naive) I've come unstuck in the workplace in London due to the language difference. Rest assured foreigners!, the further North you travel in England, the friendlier and more honest we are.
Thanks for commenting. It's a bit of a general look at the behaviour. Many of the international people I work with are connected with businesses in London, so that's why I've kept it like this, because they need to know what they are dealing with. I agree with you the North of England is friendlier!
I worked in the Midlands for years, managing both technical staff in an office environment and operational staff working from a depot. When I moved from one environment to the other there was a definite cultural and language shift that had to be accommodated and understood. It was one of the joys of the job. That said though, once in a social environment the communication techniques used by both types of employee were pretty similar
I think that also "British" as it's used here really means "English", and of a particular stratum. Once you go a little too far north or west (or both), the difference is noticeable.
I'm Dutch and was at a concert in London. I went to pick my coat up. May I have my coat? No said the lady. But it's there behind you, I said. No she said again. Why can't you hand me my coat??? Say 'Please' she said.
She was wrong, and was probably having a bad day and was distracted. You were perfectly polite. Saying 'may I have ....' contains an unspoken but implicit 'please'. Next time, just slip the unspoken please in, 'please may I have ...' and sidestep the complaints of miserable prune-faced moody witches. Of course, _how_ we say something - tone and stress - carries a great deal of meaning in English; we can say something which is, in written words, perfectly polite but when spoken, conveys a _very_ different message. I used to teach EFL to healthcare professionals, and this was very important for them when speaking to English mother-tongue colleagues and, especially, patients and families.
omg thats hilarious but I can imagine it happening, my son lived in Amsterdam for 6 years and he found the directness of the Dutch a bit much at times, but I guess its just what you get used to....
She is just lying as always. Don't you understand what she is trying to explain in this video? She actually said "do not trust a word I'm saying, I'm English, you know".
Don't tar all brits with the same brush. Us northerners are way more direct than what you describe in this video! Moving down south was a culture shock for me, and moving back to the north was so nice because the people are real and say what they mean!!
Hi I like your point: I struggled moving to the north (Hull) from the south because of this 😢I found it difficult hearing everyone’s opinions all the time especially strangers; they told me, my bins weren’t out quick enough/ oh you shouldn’t have done that love ../ I shouldn’t have parked there/ nope we can’t see you now; you’re 3 minutes late; that’s your problem you Should set off earlier then love! 😮… etc etc It got easier after 9 years but I found myself hiding from conversations because of the daily feeling of not doing things right. I prefer being in my own space and not worrying about what others think all the time in London and the midlands no one cares about what you’re doing if it doesn’t affect them directly 😊
This is largely a way of talking in a particular strand of British culture - mainly educated upper middle class, generally southern English and slightly more female than male. It's not quite as prevalent in northern british male working class/lower middle class etc. So northerners would probably find conversations amongst certain people in the south as bemusing and tricky to fully interpret. This might contribute to a sense that southeners are stand 'offish and not to be fully trusted.
I had an upper middle class British partner. When we went to bed and I was awfully tired and dreaming about a good night's sleep, he started huffing and puffing and turning left right and centre until anger built up in my starkly blunt and direct no-bullshit brain (Spanish working class village woman) so the result wasn't the expected 'what's the matter, darling?' Instead I shouted my lungs out yelling at him like a hydra😂
I am from Eastern Europe, I admire British people and British culture but I would never rely on what the British say, only on facts. Then I would invite them to Romania to show that we do not hide behind euphemisms and often we put more food than they do on the table
Because it is two faces and pure cowardice But like many, they are gaslit by Satan. “We had a great past, that means Satan is right”. That’s their level of IQ
I am English and far too direct and as a result have few friends. Thank you for giving me these wonderful phrases to learn so I can keep people happy. Speaking directly, I would have preferred you to be saying English rather than British as I think this is an English, particularly southern English characteristic.
I wish I had watched your video a year ago. I attempted to pursue a romantic relationship with someone from Britain, but it turned out to be quite challenging for me as an Argentinian. In our culture, we value straightforwardness and direct communication, and we hold honesty in high regard. This difference in communication styles created many misunderstandings and mixed signals for me, and we ultimately ended up not understanding each other's feelings.
There is a certain class of English people that I totally refuse to get close to. You can explain it the way you want, but if they make you feel uncomfortable after exchanging the first three sentences, to me that's a level of toxicity that I do not need to waste any time at all.
British are reserved which is why they oftentimes misunderstood. But gut feelings are usually accurate. I got you, indeed with few conversations you’ll be able to gauge if you feel comfortable being around the person.
@@JanBanJoovi-ol1qv exactly, the British are a bit cold, they're just not Italian, but that doesn't mean they're bad and all people are individual too.
“If there is anything I can do?” Usually means “under no circumstances should you ask for help.” in my experience. Or “You should look me up the next time you are in the UK.” Is not actually an invitation!😂
It's an art ! Saying the exact opposite of what yur guest or a non native fellow could "normally" understand. British way of live is full of fog... Not only thames river.
I was recently very ill and noticed that everybody asked my friend how I was but nobody offered help and when I did speak to people they said “you are strong you’ll get over it” which meant “I have no intention of giving you any help”! I found it deeply unpleasant, showed me who my friends were, and maybe made me determined never to do the same thing, although I am actually someone who gives too much help, perhaps? It also made me wish I had remained in America, where I lived for a short time in the 70s, where people were so generous, supportive and helpful in the face of other peoples illness or bereavement. Coming from the UK, I was constantly amazed by the generosity of Americans.
I talked to a Nigerian woman in England who graduated in Commercial Law. She outsources NHS working practices to other countries. She complained about men’s attitude to women in Nigeria, but she also complained that in England “a person could hate you and you wouldn’t even know”.
I think my favourite example of English indirectness and understatement would be Her Late Majesty's "1992 is not a year on which I shall look back with undiluted pleasure".
Well, it seems to me that passive-aggression crops up with a disparity in the power balance between people, with the more dependent side being more passive and the perceived upper hand being more aggressive. This is exacerbated by the class system in England. Pigeon-holing by perceived class is universal amongst the British. Luckily, I come from a theatrical background which helps me to escape the class strictures to some extent and excuses my occasional eccentricity. Plus I'm a republican by nature and the class problem doesn't enter into it for me.
Since I've been a fan for 50 years of English sitcoms like 'Are You Being Served, Fawlty Towers and Keeping up Appearances" I'm well aware of the classic disguised insults
This video was so interesting that I may consider liking it. :) And seriously, as a person from Central Europe who is used to the honest, direct, and open communication that is the norm in countries like Poland, Germany, or the Netherlands, I would love to watch a video called "Get to know English ways of insulting people with rude 'politeness' and indirect arrogance: Tips for non-native speakers of English." xD
I had a situation when I met a British couple whom I had a very sweet communication with in a bar. Then I remembered I planned a hike to a mountain and invited them. They looked so excited and said "YESSS LET'S GO WE ARE IN!" Then guess.. They never answered my message on WhatsApp after that xD As a Russian I never could understand the "Anglo-Saxon" way of communication. And I realized I lean towards more direct and open people because they are transparent and predictable and I feel much safer and relied with them, also they seem more confident because the more confident you are = the less you are afraid to be real
Your sense of entitlement and self-centered attitude is kinda too much. The common rule of thumb is - it is better not to believe ruzzians and to avoid them as much as possible.
@@-Mitra- She's not entitled- she's genuine and being honest about what throws her off. Rude UK ppl. As for your 'rule', this is YOUR rule, and a toxic one too. My rule is to gravitate to the best and kindest people, and so far my closest friends are Russians. And I'm a sensitive soul, I can't stand toxicity. They're the purest people I've ever met. Glad you stay away from them, they don't need people like you 🧟 in their lives!!!!!
I'm a New Zealander but we've clearly inherited some British traits, including avoiding disagreement, sardonic humour, understatement, and lots of litotes. I quite enjoy the use of understatement as it lets you speak forcefully while remaining quiet (and it's often a chance for humour).
As a kiwi, thé lack of frankness in UK communication Is extremely annoying. The so called politeness at its root is simply a fear of giving offense, ie the fear of man. And hinders good solid relationships
Really interesting and well presented. The way English is used in UK has the class system so deeply and subtlety embedded in it that it must be so baffling to non native speakers
I preffer open and honest comunication - no sarcasm, no eufemism and artifficial behaviour and no hiden agendas. Other cultures, traditions, philosophies are also thousands of years old and they need to be respected and understood - two ways and equal.
Thank you for your videos. Even though I lived in the UK for more than 12 years, I still find it difficult to cope with the vague and confusing ways to use language. I come from a very straightforward culture and this is very useful. I find interesting the “you may want to do this…”. I also find interesting how this avoidance of conflict decreases productivity, and it is accepted. Thank you for your videos.
“you may want to do this…” is constructive criticism and is a lot better than saying what you produced missed the point and that had hadn't seen the drawbacks of your proposal.
As a Bulgarian coming from much more direct, straight forward and easy type of communication being surrounded by this type of behaviour is like walking on an eggshells. That’s why I pure and simple try to avoid it as much as possible 😅 it looks too fake for my Eastern European sensitivity.
Thanks for broaching this topic! As a native British person I find the British passion for saving face & indirectness both anthropologically interesting & consummately irritating in daily life. A phrase that I’d like a whole video be done on is: “If that makes sense”. Those four words hold so much barbed meaning much of the time when used in general conversation I find so it becomes hard to discern when it’s actually meant from the stance of the speaker genuinely being unsure if they are being sincerely understood/concerned what they are saying mightn’t actually make sense. All to often find this phrase is being used as power play to convey personal authority or & superiority by the speaker to whom they’re chatting with. Another word that’s often used in the prior described power play is “obviously”. When it’s used repeatedly by a speaker I now immediately infer the speaker wants to appear authoritative & condescending at the same time while actually their unlikely to know much about what they are talking about, or are in fact unsure of their accuracy themselves. Hence see it as a ruse to make their respondent feel uncertain of their right to ask questions, prowess/knowledge/experience of the topic being addressed. Hope that you do more deep diving videos on this topic! Thanks again.
As a Finn with natural habit of silence and pretty direct communication with supposing that people actually say what they mean I'm thinking now how hard it would be to communicate with a British person :D
I think a lot of this stems from feeling like you can’t speak your mind without getting into trouble. If we did speak our minds we would be considered rude and therefore be looked at negatively.
i feel and hate this. just feels like everyone's scared and anything you do innocently could be made into something massive and absolutely unacceptable. Everyone looking to make sure their every action and presentation is acceptable and maybe, just maybe, worthy of a decent human being. its just serious insecurity, lack of love and acceptance, belonging and respect for one another. Sarcasm and complaining seem funny but they don't help the situation. It feels as though existing is "illegal" and you have to be very careful because you might just do something only a really bad and horrific person would do. So you constantly have to prove that you're a good person. It's that feeling. Just anxiety, depression, misery, insecurity and a general lack of normal social behaviour. It often feels like the only way to be happy is through drinking and going on nights out. The fact that 'clubbing' is called 'going out' says it all. Of course its gotten worse post 2010 due to youtube, netflix, instagram and rising poverty/inequality... Going abroad and shaking this feeling off feels so good. as soon as you touchdown here, its back to no empathy or love for you just perform flawlessly and perform your duty or face the wrath of everyone else who's scared.
'Fear of speaking one's mind' is very new to the English and, in my view, completely un-English. One of the ways we bond is by ribbing each other. Such banter quickly exposes the duds.
I also noticed, that people who speak directly are considered idiots, and people who talk about their feelings are considered weak. People who open up are taken advantage of. So I think this indirectness and reserve is just self-protection.
Only if what you are thinking is rude I suppose. Otherwise we give the impression that we're always thinking horrible things, and it's only politeness that stops us saying it. Most of the time I can say I don't think horrible things about people. Most people are absolutely fine.
We do this too in my part of the US. I guess people from other parts of the world need to learn to interpret English speakers not just through their words, but also through tone of voice and body language. I absolutely know the difference between a sarcastic "brilliant" from a Brit and an enthusiastic "brilliant". We don't say "brilliant" here, but we do the same thing with words like "awesome".
Ambiguity in communication, especially when you are about to sign a contract is a remedy for disaster. When you read a contract that was drafted by a country that runs an adversarial common law system, you notice the intentionally made cumbersome language as part of a strategy to bury, confuse, and conceal.. Try to compare the drafting of a Dutch or German contract to that of an English or Canadian one both in terms of the length and clarity of the clauses, and you will get the idea. An escape clause is an English invention. Only lawyers can rea;;u understand that elaborated and cumbersome language by design. Understanding an English contract is gymnastics of the mind. English contract law is mostly based on case law rulings on the basic elements of a contract: offer, consideration, and acceptation. A lawyers need to memorize 120 cases to master English contract law.. When you negotiate with the English, you never know where you really stand--acceptable! So what you do? You impose your norms and play hardball all the way through, and give very clear instructions to your lawyer.
Hello from Poland! Darling, you are heaven sent! Not only that I'm polish but I'm also a surgeon which makes me extremely direct. Now I realise the roots of my struggle in comunicating with british people. Thank you!
As an alternative opinion, I suggest not trying to "play the game". This is just a suggestion and I'm not making a strong recommendation. I don't waste my time suggesting things to people that report to me: I say "please do X" if I really want them to do it. If I make a suggestion it's only a suggestion. If my boss tries to give me advice and I think it's wrong I don't instantly give up on what I was planning to do until I have explained why. For this I think I become a "character" :-) in some people's eyes but it's better because I'm forcing people to show their hand. Later on when some action turns out to be a disaster I can't be told "it was only a suggestion" and similarly if something I tell someone to do goes wrong, it's my fault and my team members can trust me to take the blame for it. All of this indirectness just destroys the language - it pollutes the meaning of everything and leaves the communicators in doubt and it puts the burden of accepting social unpleasantness on the listener which is cowardly, in my opinion.
I think Americans can do euphemism pretty well too! The PR person in the US military who invented the term "collateral damage" was an absolute grandmaster of the art! It makes the bombing, burning, butchering and maiming of innocent civilians sound like...well...like a regrettable but insignificant minor water leak while the pipes are being fixed in the road...
The BBC are masters too. It is almost impossible to hear from the BBC that some organizations are terror groups. At best, they are referred to as combatants, militia, etc.
This post is very interesting, and I mean it. After a while living in the UK you start to appreciate sarcasm and understatements. Or translated into a more direct language: you learn how to give them a dose of their own medicine. 😂😂
Absolutely! It drives me insane! They will never say sorry for upsetting you, they will say sorry that you are feeling upset. After having spent 25 years in the South East, I am convinced that the hardest thing for an English person is to admit that something was their fault. All these “sorry” words mean very little regret in practice.
I enjoyed your clear observations, thank you! I'd like to comment that, as a Scottish person who has lived in England for decades, this "Britishness" is mainly an English trait. The Scots can be more direct, and many will "seek clarification" as a means of preserving social harmony, rather than avoiding embarrassment! It is amazing that there are more Brits living in the Greater London area than in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland combined.
Britain stretches from the north of Shetland to the south of Scilly and is populated by British people. The passive aggressive speech of which you speak is a characteristic of poncy, middle class people in the south east of England. In other parts of Britain, there are different "manners" and in many parts of the UK people are much more direct and view this southern style of speech as cowardly, devious and manipulative. For the Southerner,venturing north, they struggle with directness and honesty and will characterise Northerners as blunt, direct and aggressive. If you are coming to the UK, you will find a huge variation across the country. If you like honesty and directness head north, but if you prefer obfuscation head for the south east.
Direct is having the guts to tell someone exactly what you think about them in plain English rather than talking about them right in front of them in your troll language.
As a visitor from Canada have experienced the variations in speech customs. Quite off-putting and leaves you questioning your sanity when people play word games and mean the opposite of what they are saying. They create unhealthy relationships, hostility and unnecessary problems for themselves.
Many years ago we had an eastern European friend, who was uncommonly attractive and a nice person. One evening after a few drinks, a young male acquaintance decided to eulogise her appearance. "You're so beautiful", he told her. "This is true", she told him in heavily accented English, "but it is genetics", she replied in a way only someone raised in the former Eastern bloc could, returning to normal conversation as if nothing had happened. When I hear about directness of speech, that was a classic!
I suspect she wasn't being direct, and that this was her way of saying that she'd prefer to be complimented on something she'd actively developed, such as her work or something else such as painting or poetry.
@@lcolinwilson8347 It is different from many people in the west, who trade on their looks while denying they offer any special advantage. She agreed her appearance was uncommon in a very un-British way, but I don't recall her leveraging her assets as a "special" person.
I do appreciate polite directness, hate double speech and sarcasm - unless it really functions as humor. If we don't say what we mean, why bother at all....
I can't quantify, but whether most or much of the world, has far more layers of social niceties than the British: try Japan, Thailand, Arab cultures, and more.
Interesting observation on my side. As a Polish American who has spent over 30 years in business environment in the USA I must say that all of your examples from the British culture that you quoted would ring a warning bell as well in my mind if I heard them in any context in the USA. Classic US example: "Don't call us, we will call you" - meaning " you will never hear from us again" or simply - f*** off.
Ive worked in USA for 30 years .American workfirce is the most I have ever seen people in a work.place ,literally scared to lose their jobs .So youre talking s it 😂
In my experience I’ve found that men from working class backgrounds are much more direct in their speech. Also northerners are more direct the southerners. So middle class women from the south of England are the best at this type of speech. The way words can be used to put someone in “ their place”.
It is deeply class-based. I'm frequently accused of being rude for simple directness while the many boarding school types I know will be downright nasty, spiteful and controlling through passive aggression and call it polite. It's also unfortunate that directness from women is less tolerated than from men.
Being of French-Canadian stock, after listening to your reasoning, it makes me wonder if you meant, 'I would really like to hear your comments.' or, if you meant, 'I hope none of the Colonists ever respond to this video. I'm off for tea.'
What I love about the Polish culture is that they are very straightforward, at the beginning it is harsh haha but later I appreciate more and more and I don’t need to read between the lines or decipher the message. Thank you
The longer I live in the UK (been here for 20 years) the more clearly I see the discrepancy between what they really mean and what they say. So this video helps understand why it is so difficult to understand Brits to those from other cultures than British.
Some of us . Further up the socio economic scale the less direct etc people are generally. . Rich people however I find can be very direct - why they’re rich I’m thinking ie direct.
@@serenityinside1 I used to work with very reach and powerful people in other countries - many of them very frank. They strong enough to hold the truth about many things. So you can be honest with them too.
Genuinely interesting! I hadn’t particularly thought about this but it’s true. There are lot of phrases that are effectively meaningless in real terms. Let me think about it, leave it with me, I’ll call you etc. I do make lightly sarcastic comments but not to non English speakers because they don’t get it. Also I find that when an English speaker says ‘how are you’ non English speakers take as a question and want to know how to respond, rather than treating it simply as a greeting. There are however occasions where something like ‘let me think about it’ is actually meant and you can only tell from the way it is said. Similarly ‘call me’ can be an actual instruction not a brush off and probably only an English speaker would know the difference.
As a South African I struggled with it for years. Now I don’t care , as all these layers complicate the persons own communication. I simply pay no attention and say or do what I know to be the correct way to handle a situation directly and let it be known. Luckily, I own my own business. When I was younger being lower on the work ladder it certainly is debilitating.
Kiwi here, there's a lot I recognize and think is familiar, but when I actually come across a native Brit, generally greater London / Home Counties, I am shocked by how rude the first couple of minutes of conversation are - to my ear. It's passive aggressive, sarcastic, testing, wrong-footing tactics in order to pigeonhole the individual. It's potentially because we don't have an exact match for the coded stuff from the UK - schools, hobbies, interests, views, politics, family wealth etc. Once the process has been done to the satisfaction of the questioner it's generally fine, but it's painful to go through.
The problem with the method of communication described is that much is left to the recipient of the message. This is not a problem if it is an exchange of views between Britons. However: if it primarily involves English speakers, it is already a problem, let alone when English is not the primary language for the other party. Those non-native speakers usually have to do a translation job in their heads (English to native language and vice versa). They also have to figure out the peculiarities of British slang and meta-communication. This can only lead to one conclusion: such a way of communicating with a non-native speaker is just plain rude. Coming from a culture myself, where directness is highly valued (and believe me: even in such a culture, there is indeed a distinction between civilised direct and rude) , I can sometimes be extremely annoyed by this British behaviour. In my contacts with my English friends (I really have them! 🙂), I really appreciate it when they abandon their fake politeness (because that's how it feels to me).
I agree... Am originately half German culture (Switz & Tirol) and half American (irishs and scot-irishs).... But born and educated in france. I had my life long to face (and fight (!)) with these "cultural subtilities" between all those countries. I lived and worked abroad and sometimes I was rude myself with colleagues who didn't catch the meaning of a business talk. Saying brutally during a debriefing " No.! he is American ok ? Å southerner... Yu didn't understand what he said" .... "Yesterday the guy was a brit ! Totally another world. And tomorrow with a German.. A Switz or a Scandinavian... it gonna be another world... Again ! Remain focused... Learn... Avoïd mistakes." . With my british boss we lose several big contracts on real estate port folios becose he ignored typical gesture and ways of talking (and practicing business) of... Southern Americans.
The problem is with foreign people to any country is that they think that learning words and syntax is all that is needed to go to and speak in said country. They must learn the culture and all the colloquial language and nuances. I did twice, it's hard but a must, but when you get it, it's then really uplifting and a joy. You are truly part of said country.
British passive aggression is by far my biggest frustration as a couples coach. It drives me nuts to be honest. That said, teaching direct, authentic communication is also the most satisfying part of my job.
I have been working in ESL/ EFL for over three decades, but have never seen this kind of info included in ANY teaching materials!!! Brilliant stuff!!! (I mean it 😉)
People mean 'that's so strange'... But its said in a very obvious humourous tone, so you should know they are joking. It's said like this: "iiiiinteresting 😂"
A mine field of possibilities to step into a puddle....as the saying goes, "The continentals are too honest to be polite while the Brits are too polite to be honest."
I come from Spain, and I consider british people rude due to this constant sarcasm, irony, and other passive aggressive misbehaviours. Of course not all british people are like this, but it is sadly a very common behaviour. Its root should be studied and extirpated, and the people reeducated. It probably has to do with a sense of superiority, imperialism, etc.. It does give a very bad image of british people all around the world. I wonder if it has to do with the characteristic bad weather, but then I remember how nice irish people are. I think scottish people are nice too. Welsh are certainly similarly kind. So, the thing serms to come from England, mostly. Am I wrong?
I don't think you're wrong. The constant mixing up English and British is annoying. I'm Scottish - British, if you want - but, we in Scotland tend to be direct in our communication. We mostly mean what we say, and say what we mean. Much of what's in this video is about English people!
Don't pat yourself on the back too hard. You aren't the jovial Irish. There is a noticeable traunch of Scots who are so dour and miserly in their demeanor and talk as to make talking to a double meaning passive aggressive London posho seem like a joy in comparison.
I've travelled all over the World and now live in Asia and I speak good Thai, When talking to people on my travels I use basic English to communicate with the locals if they understand and I never confuse them with double talk just basic English that gets straight to the point,that's always worked well for me and them.
The difference is that you are abroad and adapt to those around you. This video is about non-natives encountering natives in their own country. When I lived in Japan I didn't expect Japanese people to change for me.
How silly - simply mean what you say and say what you mean - let your yes be yes and your no be no. That way, everyone sknows where they stand. This passive agressive stuff is deceptive.... 😢 Thank you for sharing 💖
What an incredibly interesting intercultural subject! Thank you for making this video. And of course when you are British it is not so much but when you have contacts with other people from other countries. I’m Hungarian, my wife was English. Sadly she died two years ago after over 25 years of marriage. We lived in Hungary and Germany. I used to live in London and in Kansas US for a while. The contrast among these people was and is quite significant. Without noticing, I also picked up the Britishness (nearly 30 years cannot pass without leaving some marks) but I still say what I think as Hungarians mostly do but not like the Germans directness, though been living in Germany for 14 years now. My wife worked in an international environment but still with many Germans and I had to listen her sort of complaining every evening about things happened in the office which came back to the difference between the way Germans and English communicate… mostly anyway. I couldn’t describe the exact reasons but it was quite obvious for me. The other one was when we were still back in Hungary and me working also in a multinational organisation. Once we had a big project involving many programmers from all over the place. One guy his name was Mice 😁, was Cockney. My fellow colleagues kept saying that they just couldn’t understand him. Obviously it was also down to his strong cockney English. I was the only company for him 😄 Again I didn’t realise at the time that it was not only me understanding cockney but being surrounded by the English family and friends I picked up quite a bit, or at least understood most of it. Sometimes this causes some difficulties in my new relationship (French 😅) An other journey 😄 but will still consider myself a little bit British, just a little bit 😂
Im, English married to a German for 35 years, and for 40 of my 70 years I’ve been a foreigner living in France, Germany, USA and now Spain. It is my belief that you need to understand the culture of a country as well as its language before making any assumptions that the people of said country are being polite or rude. 😉🤓
Love your video! ❤ That's so true, and that’s why it’s sometimes not easy for us Europeans to talk to Brits. As continental Europeans and non-native English speakers, we expect clarity in communication and a certain directness, with the opportunity to discuss all issues. However, Brits often approach things differently, avoiding saying 'no' directly or expressing their opinion outright. In general, I notice cultural differences between young Brits and their parents. British Gen Z don’t even try to be polite-they just don’t care! 😂
As someone who has lived here all my life, I'm still trying to understand the people here... I say what I mean and take others literally so it's often baffling for me.
Thanks for making these videos. Really difficult to adjust as an immigrant, after many years still don't fell like I've got it every time.. not sure I even want to fully adopt these tactics tbh... These insider takes, do not only imply great self awareness, but are extremely valuable trying to decode the unspoken, but obvious truths, lying underneath
I'm from a British family and believe me, I've had a lot of toxic passive aggression to deal with. I think it's strange that you think it avoids conflict, as I think the opposite. And I think it's a power play.
I’m not sure I totally agree. As a Brit working abroad I regularly employ sarcasm, irony, understatement and euphemisms and yet compared to middle-eastern or south-east Asian cultures I’m regarded as being as direct as a brick through a window. I think though that the comparison does stand up when compared to American culture. Two nations divided by a common language… :)
English culture seems very similar to middle eastern societies in that way, that it's hostile, fragmented and tribal.In continental Europe the nation states provide a much stronger sense of community which leads to a direct, intimate way of communication.
Interesting, as an Indian in the UK it seems like maybe some non-British take British expressions/figures of speech literally, and that might make them feel like you're saying rather radical things.
As an African who speaks at least 3 east African tongues, and fluent in both English and French, I'll wager that what the English consider subtle to each other, can still come across as 'direct' especially when other forms of banter are used to cover up what is going on. English banter 'feels' rude to more older civilisations. There's a way the English almost let loose at banter that can come across almost as uncultured. The jokes are almost crass and borderline offensive and very masculine in nature and very niche. That can be off putting to the more inclusive and communal cultures where excluding others without reason is seen as unnecessarily hostile and cruel.
@@tinachristine4573 as an English person, I wish my English was as good as yours, and I mean that absolutely literally. You either had a very good education or put a lot of effort into educating yourself. Congratulations. You have made me feel like reading some good English literature.!
Many years ago, as an exchange student to England, I eventually ended up with a bunch of Scottish friends. I had never made a distinction between English and Scottish people before, but once my new friends started talking about their family background, I realised they were all from Scotland :)
I heard Frederic Raphael say that the British, when in conversation, are always predicting their interlocutor’s response before they themselves speak, which he found frustrating. It hinders sincerity.
Being Polish living in England, I didn't know some of these examples of passive aggressiveness. I do understand most of the language, grammar, words, idioms, but this taught me another skill :) Polish people are a way more direct than British :) Some of my co-workers must have noticed that :) Great video, thanks!
I've just discovered you channel and it's fascinating. I'm watching from Poland. We, the Poles are painfully direct, we say what we think from the beginning and are easy to say NO. This culture difference complicated my work with American once who are similar to the British. When my boss told me that she "will think about it" or "that's a good idea, let's talk about it next week", which never happened, I got really annoyed because I kept working on a project she obviously didn't like and I lost my time, instead of working on something else. They also made the simplest "issue" very complicated. E. g. There was a landline phone for clients in the reception area, almost never used by clients but very often by some Polish employees, which made the bills higher and higher and it was impossible to find out who made those expensive at that time calls to the US. I was supposed to write a memo to all the employees about the problem asking them POLITELY not to use this phone. It didn't work because my American manager changed my message in such a way that it was sooooo polite that everybody just ignored it. I tried to tell her that the Polish employees will get the message only if it is direct. She didn't agree. After a few polite messages nothing changed, so I wrote another message without telling her which said, more or less. "Try to use the phone again, and I will install a camera and you will pay for the bills". After that, the problem magically disappeared. I adore British sarcasm😅
My friend is from Peru and totally takes things the wrong way from what I say to her. She just doesn't 'get' the intricacies of the English language. Thank you for this video. Insightful!
As a non native English speaker, I think the "passive aggressiveness" is very British. I found Americans are not passive aggressive (in general, they are more direct). I think in the UK, when someone says something nice to you, I generally do not take it as a sincere compliment. I also often find that in the UK when someone wants to "verbally attack" another person, they always say something nice first (particularly the middle class people - like they want to show how "classy" they are but in reality, they are "trashy" by shredding other people through their words / politeness).
I’ve never heard of indirect speech being a form of passive aggression. I have a friend who speaks very indirectly, and she also uses passive aggression spitefully, it causes me a lot of misunderstanding. Sarcasm in certain circumstances can definitely be used in that way, but it can also be part of banter among friends. I much prefer direct speech and to be able to use it myself, but what I have often run into is that people read some kind of subtext into it that is not there, it can be very confusing. When other people are indirect, I often totally miss that I’m supposed to read a subtext and I just take their words literally. When people don’t just say what they mean and mean what they say, it is a form of lying and I find it hard to trust or respect them.
That is so me too! Often it's just our insecurities being made manifest in our reaction to it. If find if I know the person well, there is no ambiguity. So a lack of familiarity of the person and our insecurities can make us uncomfortable.
I also find it an annoying waste of time. As well as humiliating and hurtful. In Australia where i live as an immigrant, apparently people who actually like you may decide mocking teasing is a way to: get your attention/show you want to connectt?! My response is to get away asap.
There is a form of stroke-induced brain injury that results in the complete loss of the ability to speak in the active voice. Mmmm. Passive voice with a British accent.
It's the culture, you have to learn it and how to think in the language. I know 2 other foreign languages and had to learn the culture by living there as well as the language. That's standard language and the colloquial difference of the regions. Not easy but a must.
Straight to the point. As an Italian used to a way less polite and more sincere, confrontational and direct communication, in my 3 year experience in London I definitely suffered from this. And do you know why? Because you clearly notice you're being attacked or judged, but since they're not doing it directly, you can't respond directly. It's such a cowardish communication style.
I'm French and I used to live in London for 3 years. I'm not saying we honest like the Germans or the Dutch, but we say the true quitw often. The UK is crazy most of the Brits are polite and reserved except when they go to the stadium. Talking to people it's very strange too. Because it's just like you talk to them but you don't feel their presence like they're here but not here a the same time. Passive aggressiveness is awful. I loved to live in London honestly and to see all of those people coming from the all world. But at the same time we barely speak to each other .. so what's the point ? Im from Toulouse (south France) we definitely nicer than Londoner's.
As you lived in the UK, I guess you understand that the Brits who go to the stadiums, drink Heineken and go to Benidorm/Magaluf for a summer holiday are the disctinct social group of the British.
Malaysian here. Lived in Nottingham from 2006 to 2010 for uni. "It has an interesting taste" = it is not delicious "You've got an interesting looking hairstyle" = your hairstyle is ugly I realised "interesting" means something else when spoken by my British friends back then... 😂
This is great. As a Polish-British I still struggle with it somewhat after 20 years, but it's more like my "direct mode" has taken a second seat, it's still there, but for the most part I operate in this indirect mode. But there can be times especially when I get frustrated by something, it short circuits and I expect direct answer or I take what is said at face value.
As an Englishman who has lived abroad for nearly 10y in multiple countries, has foreign friends and has a Mexican wife, some of these I find utterly annoying. When I come back for my annual visits I sometimes purposely choose to not participate in many of the mentioned social norms. I will sometimes not bother with small talk, i will hold stares longer than people are comfortable with, I will interpret understated language as if it was not and respond as such, choose to not say sorry (i will say excuse me instead, which even freaks some people out lol) unless I actually do something wrong etc etc. Luckily I have achieved financial independence, and thus don't need to do much people pleasing, unless I wish to 😂
After I have been rejected in many interviews,I VE realise that British do not say what they think in most circumstances! Honestly I prefer central European style ,you know with who you talk when you having a meal ! 😅
Canadian who had in-laws who are from England - the whole passive aggressive bullsh*t yup I can relate - I just called people on it, for example I would say to my sister-in-law who was being rude and passive-aggressive; “so what you’re saying is you’re being condescending and rude but you don’t have the confidence to say it directly, correct?” My sister-in-laws face dropped and she abruptly left the room. Needless to say she chose to avoid me, win-win!! Also people would assume I was American then some rude comments would happen, again I called people on it, and they had no clue what to say to my directness. Generally they slithered away.
We Jugoslavians, then Italians, Greek, (for i know that folk) , we are loud talking, loud laughing and saying what we mean.😂 We love good food, good mediteran music and dance, nice glass of shiraz and we are natural. We do not use much of sarcasm. Maybe here and there. And yes, we do not use on every step the polite phrases : "please" or "excuse me" , or "sorry". For example : On a busy bus station someone steps on my foot. I say ouch then i say : sorry. 😂
Greetings from Spain! Thank you very much for this topic. I think that some of those passive-agressive demeanors are just polite ways to handle certain situations. I'm personally not a great fan of direct communication anymore as it can become problematic with antagonistic people. In other situations, circumstances don't allow expressing feelings directly and the message needs to be read between the lines. Once, I had to write an acknowledgement in a thesis cumplimenting a very neglectful tutor who refused to have any follow-up meeting to review my draft. Thus, I wrote something like "he encouraged me to be proactive and self-suficient" as that was my only way to express my frustration in a situation where direct communication with him was not an option due to power imbalance.
Me too (60yo portuguese from Lisbon area). But up in the north people use to be much more direct. To me it feels rude to criticise someone on its face. Let alone being criticised!
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Look out for my next video on developing essential decoding skills when dealing with native speakers!
The conclusion is that whatever the British people say, they mean the opposite of what they say. When they think something is bad, they say, "That's brilliant". When they are not interested, they say, "This is interesting". When they mean something is compulsory, they say it is optional.
its a stupid language....to is too but go is not goo...oh cmon!
It's probably hate crime now
I tried reading between the lines, I got hit by a train
If we try to understand this comment (your comment ) in and according to the context of the video, this might mean never look out for the next video! LOL
But honestly, very useful video !
I am English. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. As a consequence I have very few friends.
same
and probably working class
same
So youre mean. There's no excuse for meanness disguised as 'honesty'. Yes, you would be lonely.
It is quantity vs. quality.
simple: the English are too polite to be honest whereas the Germans are too honest to be polite
Germans have realized that being honest is the most polite thing you can do. Don't waste anyone's time or brain power, just say the truth.
And the French?😂
How true! It was very difficult, for me, to learn how to be diplomatic. My first meeting with my manager was very frustrating. She was so diplomatic that I didn’t have a clue what she was saying. I finally asked her to tell me what I did wrong in plain English so I could do my job correctly. She did and I learned. I asked at the end of the meeting to please just tell me when I make a mistake. I explained my feelings will not be hurt because this is what I am getting paid for and need to learn. Our coaching sessions were cut in half after that.
As a German I believe, as long as you are respectful it is not a problem. Take responsibility for mistakes you made, learn from them, no excuses, move on.
You are not polite people maybe you like to think so i find English people dishonest and rude For some strange reason you think you are more clever than other and you can talk down to us oh I’m so polite why do you think we can’t recognize you lying
Brazilian s is the worst
In my youth, I was an au-pair in a half-British/half-German family. It was my first experience with foreigners. I suspected that they were different but I had no idea how much and in what way. The mother of the family was from the UK (Scotland, actually) and she was very evasive about my duties besides playing with her child. So, as a young active Ukrainian girl, I assumed that I should be "the eldest daughter" of the family. In my country, it means to help with the household work. So, I started cleaning, ironing, washing dishes - not all the time but when I considered it necessary. The family didn't seem to mind it and the woman praised me and thanked, calling me "our saviour". I felt uncomfortable about that "savior" thing but I thought it was her way of showing her gratitude. When I returned home, I learned that the woman started complaining about me to all family's friends, that I was a very interfering, dramatic person and wanted to show that I was better than them. But I just loved that family and wanted to be as useful as possible... It hurt my feelings very badly. Now, when I am older and have some experience with the foreigners, I know that I trespassed private borders in my overhelpfulness but I am still wondering why not just to tell directly that you don't like what the other person is doing 🤷♀️
How rude of her! Awful experience! Id be eo grateful for the extra help.
I'm Scottish and i don't think how that woman responded to you is a usual Scottish way of behaving.
I think she was rude, dishonest, and has some personality flaws and failings.
I would also say she is someone who is unskilled and inexperienced at employing other people.
It seems it was a difficult time for you through no fault of your own.
Because the germans/ anglosaxons are not like us, slavic people. I call them fake, not all, but in general. My experience. But in general they are more polite then us, let's be honest 😂
We love the Scottish it was definitely a British person @@elipotter369
I don't think meeting one person you can judge all the rest. People are different. Relationship is different.
Someone can hurt, someone makes you happy, everything is very individual.
100%. Im Scottish living and working in England. I am constantly referred to as aggressive and it's literally just being honest and direct. It's genuinely upsetting and horrible.
That happens to many of us English people too, especially those of us in the more northern parts of the country, if we move south for our career or whatever. The so-called 'Home' counties aren't MY home counties and never could be!
It's like they get upset about reality
You are my kind of person, keep on like this
If you are too direct for a culture, any culture, then you (or I) should try and adapt. It doesn’t matter if that culture is English, Japanese, Tahitian, whatever. The onus is on you to be what is considered acceptable in that culture.
I love the Scots for this.
I’m English, autistic and after years of confusion, now happily live in the Netherlands.
They will know what to say without beating around the bush 🤣you found your tribe!
Very happy for you! 🙂
🤣🤣👏👏
That's an amusing story. But sorry about the suffering you went through.
Good choice!
“I’ll think about it” = I don’t want to do it.
“I’ll definitely think about it” = I definitely don’t want to do it.
I think I've been hanging out with the British far too long this is how I behave. Bloody hell😂
I'll ponder how much I don't want to do it. 😂
😂😂
Thank you for the translation 😂
Spot on!
From experience, i feel like the only polite people are those who dont pretend to be polite. The rest seem to be fake, resentful and disturbed.
This is wisdom 😄
Spot on!
Wel said!! How did they manage to be collectively fake ??
Absolutely agree!
Mostly mentally disturbed and it's supported by the evidence of those taking psychiatric meds
I’m an Aussie who lived in the UK for over a decade. When they are about to leave and without any promoting they suggest that “ we need to meet up soon” , “How about you come over?” “ We need to go here/do this, together.” and you would never hear from these people again or get the invite to do whatever they suggested! It used to drive me crazy. Why on earth are you going out of your way, with zero prompting on my part, to suggest we meet up when you have no intention whatsoever! I think it’s quite rude actually. Aussies would never do that. If I don’t genuinely want to meet up again, I keep my mouth shut. There is absolutely no reason to say anything other than bye 😂 I also notice how they will sit there with the elephant in the room. What they say and what they really think can be two different things. I felt it freeing returning to Australia and being able to be direct and speak my mind. My English husband has shocked me, he is now direct too 😂
This might be a southern English thing. The London area has numerous work related language customs that are alien to the rest of the country. Due to the intensely competitive nature of work and life generally, where people are reluctant to draw firm social lines in the knowledge they may encounter the individual or his/her acquaintances in a work setting again.
It's not like that everywhere here. I came across it once and found it quite confusing until I realised, "You really must come and visit sometime" doesn't mean anything of the sort, unless you are given a date and time to visit.
Also, "See you later" usually just means goodbye, it doesn't mean we'll meet later unless you've already arranged to meet later.
That's fickle and insincere behaviour, you get that more in Spain and the U.S.A. (I've worked in both those countries) but I've spotted a few of these type more so in offices in central London but I keep away.
I am an Aussie that has lived here for 40 years. I married an English guy who is very polite but takes my breath away when he honestly speaks his mind. Brutal. I still get pulled up for speaking my mind. In the workplace it is passive aggressive central and painful. The pecking order so noticeable. I enjoy working for a German company. They are more direct and the debates heated and refreshing. Also the further north you go in the UK the friendlier the people.
Hi I'm a European, have lived in the UK for over 2 decades :-) They say things like "you should come over for dinner one night" " or "we need to meet up soon", because they want to impress you. They think "it's a nice thing to say". But I am the opposite: it is lying if you don't mean it, and lying doesn't impress me. The problem with the British "diplomatic" behaviour is that sometimes they DO mean it, but you will never know when.
I spent over ten years in the UK altogether and noticing what I call "cultural differences" was very enjoyable. I love your sarcasm and your sense of humor. I admire your strong bond to politeness.. I remember once saying "Don't you thing saying "please" in almost every sentence is a bit of a waste of energy?" And now, as a part-time teacher of English I try really hard to explain to my young adult students that if you don't say "please" when you make a request people may think you were a barbarian and that the question "What do you want" is much too direct. But the most hilarious story I heard was about one non native young lady who got really upset at work one day because everybody was asking how she was and nobody wanted to listen to her answer.
Also in Sweden it’s very common to ask someone you meet how it’s going. It’s supposed to answer just briefly Just fine, thank you, not begin to explain in detail some health problems or anything else. 😂
hahhahaha
Yes!!!! The first time the guy at the till asked me: are you all right? I started to wonder: do I look ill? :)))
And yes: please and thank you and sorry, every time, for every little thing. When I am really greatful, or when I am really pleading, or when I am really, genuinely sorry, I do not know how to convey it, as the: thank you, sorry, and please are so overused for trivialities. (Also: fabulous! You are a star! Marvellous! - for trivialities again. I feel so put down when I hear it.)
I am Russian naturalised Brit since 2008. Don't have British friends except that one of my daughters boyfriend is British. But I work in customer services and deal with people of all nationalities and walks of life. One rule of thumb I elaborated myself in my work: ANY important matter must be IN WRITING & SAVED. It is my way of covering myself in case of any dispute. And I am very specific and formal (deliberately boring) in my emals and letters. It helps. If I relied on spoken word and verbal agreements - I would have been in massive troubles
That's right. In Lithuania when I was dealing with my customers I never had any problems when having verbal agreements (of course I am good in who to deal with and don't do business with random people). In UK even selling cigarettes block brought from duty free to local people from my work when we initially agreed way way before the deal was supposed to happen, it was mega difficult. It was in their favour to save some money instead of buying 2x more expensive local fags, but they were just disappearing, not replying or ignoring 😀 Even when they say we'll speak later after spending a lot of time with you, this is just a lie 😄 0 british friends until now and I prefer to stay away from them 😀
In an actual UK visa application form were the words You might want to attach supporting documents. This actually meant if you don't attach supporting documents, your visa application will be denied. This doesn't just catch out non English first language speakers. It catches out American, Australian, Canadian and South African English first language speakers.
😂😂😂
This never occurred to me but I believe you're right. It's a very smart "filter".
Another one the government and companies LOVE to use is "may", "you may be fined" means "you will be fined".
It’s so ridiculous isn’t it?
The undertone is there’s a set of rules/ways of doing things out there and you’d better follow my advice here. It’s a typical passive aggressive tone. As an Asian living in London for twenty years I still don’t fully understand tones like this. It makes me feel uncomfortable but I sometimes use the same tone too, in a bid to feel more assimilated. I will stop doing to others what makes me feel uncomfortable.
I have sat in meetings with British people and just wished they would say no, instead of going silent or obfuscating. Its quite tedious and a slow and confusing way to make group decisions. A New Zealander's perspective.
Try a three-hour Japanese meeting.
Yis, you are right.
I love keeping them accountable. :)) Love it! NZ.
I've worked in every country in Europe. I hated meetings with Brits.
@@mrsm382me too🙃… VERY directly! Kkkkk
"We'll be in touch" = you'll never hear from us again.
😂
@@secretsofenglishplease do more such program, because it educates people how the British walk the talk, I hope I am not polishing the apple.🙏🙏🙏
That isn't "passive aggressive". That's "lying".
Truth.
yes, this is the equivalent of Inshallah in Arabic (God willing), always used to mean "not gonna happen".
The saddest part of working with the British especially day to day. Most indirectness is actually bullying behaviour.
100%
that is so true!
Tyre. No means no. Don't know why they make the situation complicated
I agree. When you are direct to them though(not rude), they are shocked. I always love to do that.
Huge bullies. Bully half the world.
I’m from Barcelona, Spain been living in UK 🇬🇧 since 2007. I love the British people. First few months living here i remember crossing people on the street and they’d say ‘you alright?’ And I would stop and explain how I was, what’s happening in my life etc 😅 Eventually I learnt ‘you alright?’ means ‘hi I don’t have time to speak or I don’t want to’
Absolutely, the same with how do you do? or How are you? All you have to say, I’m very well, thank you. No other answer is required. And please say it with a smile. 😁😆
😂😅😅
This was my case too 😅
Love British people tho
It's just a greeting, not a question.
Same experience, I thought I was supposed to respond "I'm good and you?" but at that point my phrase was ignored 😅
I agree with much of what you say BUT I would suggest a lot of these behaviours that you describe are only how the London middle-classes speak and especially in the office context. We are not all the same in England, as a Yorkshireman (call me naive) I've come unstuck in the workplace in London due to the language difference. Rest assured foreigners!, the further North you travel in England, the friendlier and more honest we are.
Thanks for commenting. It's a bit of a general look at the behaviour. Many of the international people I work with are connected with businesses in London, so that's why I've kept it like this, because they need to know what they are dealing with. I agree with you the North of England is friendlier!
I worked in the Midlands for years, managing both technical staff in an office environment and operational staff working from a depot. When I moved from one environment to the other there was a definite cultural and language shift that had to be accommodated and understood. It was one of the joys of the job.
That said though, once in a social environment the communication techniques used by both types of employee were pretty similar
@@secretsofenglish I know x
I think that also "British" as it's used here really means "English", and of a particular stratum. Once you go a little too far north or west (or both), the difference is noticeable.
As an American Southerner, the use of indirectness and euphemism to soften a blow or avoid conflict are things I see every day.
I'm Dutch and was at a concert in London. I went to pick my coat up. May I have my coat? No said the lady. But it's there behind you, I said. No she said again. Why can't you hand me my coat??? Say 'Please' she said.
She was wrong, and was probably having a bad day and was distracted.
You were perfectly polite.
Saying 'may I have ....' contains an unspoken but implicit 'please'. Next time, just slip the unspoken please in, 'please may I have ...' and sidestep the complaints of miserable prune-faced moody witches.
Of course, _how_ we say something - tone and stress - carries a great deal of meaning in English; we can say something which is, in written words, perfectly polite but when spoken, conveys a _very_ different message. I used to teach EFL to healthcare professionals, and this was very important for them when speaking to English mother-tongue colleagues and, especially, patients and families.
That was just a power game. Rude and unnecessary (and I am someone who values politeness and good manners a lot)
I've never know this, yes that's very rude, especially at a concert where you're in a rush. You were very polite too
Wow that's overkill and I'm British
omg thats hilarious but I can imagine it happening, my son lived in Amsterdam for 6 years and he found the directness of the Dutch a bit much at times, but I guess its just what you get used to....
"The British value avoiding conflict".....large parts of the rest of the world goes "WHAT?",😉
Brilliant 😂
The vast majority of the population was not involved in the British empire, just surviving hand to mouth for most of its history.
Ha ha,yes, on the surface..but actually...
She is just lying as always. Don't you understand what she is trying to explain in this video? She actually said "do not trust a word I'm saying, I'm English, you know".
Ironically, due to their inability to say what they mean and mean what they say, they are provoking more.
"With all due respect...."
(that would be zero respect due)
See also "I'm not being funny but ..."
😂😂😂 so true
That means "I will be rude".
Don't tar all brits with the same brush. Us northerners are way more direct than what you describe in this video! Moving down south was a culture shock for me, and moving back to the north was so nice because the people are real and say what they mean!!
Yes and us Scots too. It’s a very different culture down south. Literally foreign.
Agreed! I'm a Northerner. Bang on! 😊
If I don't want to do/take part in anything, I just say No thanks, without offering any justification.
As a southerner, London culture to be precise, I can confirm that you lot up north are indeed much friendlier.
Hi I like your point: I struggled moving to the north (Hull) from the south because of this 😢I found it difficult hearing everyone’s opinions all the time especially strangers; they told me, my bins weren’t out quick enough/ oh you shouldn’t have done that love ../ I shouldn’t have parked there/ nope we can’t see you now; you’re 3 minutes late; that’s your problem you Should set off earlier then love! 😮… etc etc
It got easier after 9 years but I found myself hiding from conversations because of the daily feeling of not doing things right. I prefer being in my own space and not worrying about what others think all the time in London and the midlands no one cares about what you’re doing if it doesn’t affect them directly 😊
This is largely a way of talking in a particular strand of British culture - mainly educated upper middle class, generally southern English and slightly more female than male. It's not quite as prevalent in northern british male working class/lower middle class etc. So northerners would probably find conversations amongst certain people in the south as bemusing and tricky to fully interpret. This might contribute to a sense that southeners are stand 'offish and not to be fully trusted.
Try living in the heart of Scotland near the Highlands! After 27 years here as an American, I think I’ve picked up on the dark humour.
Clarification indeed!
As someone from SW Devon and my lovely husband being born and raised in Leeds, we have a lot of fun between us. 😂😂😂
I had an upper middle class British partner. When we went to bed and I was awfully tired and dreaming about a good night's sleep, he started huffing and puffing and turning left right and centre until anger built up in my starkly blunt and direct no-bullshit brain (Spanish working class village woman) so the result wasn't the expected 'what's the matter, darling?' Instead I shouted my lungs out yelling at him like a hydra😂
Agree!
I am from Eastern Europe, I admire British people and British culture but I would never rely on what the British say, only on facts.
Then I would invite them to Romania to show that we do not hide behind euphemisms and often we put more food than they do on the table
😊😊
You have been sold propaganda. You have my word. We are brought up to tell the truth.
That's very true!
really excellent food in Bucharest
😁👍♥️
Passive? It is called cowardice and two faces in most cultures 😅
Only if you don't understand it, which is the entire point of the video. This is our bread and butter 😂
YES.
Because it is two faces and pure cowardice
But like many, they are gaslit by Satan. “We had a great past, that means Satan is right”. That’s their level of IQ
Oh shut up! How's that for British honesty? 🙄😒
Tey talking to working class people ,not middle class .
I am English and far too direct and as a result have few friends. Thank you for giving me these wonderful phrases to learn so I can keep people happy. Speaking directly, I would have preferred you to be saying English rather than British as I think this is an English, particularly southern English characteristic.
In Edinburgh too I am afraid..
I wish I had watched your video a year ago. I attempted to pursue a romantic relationship with someone from Britain, but it turned out to be quite challenging for me as an Argentinian. In our culture, we value straightforwardness and direct communication, and we hold honesty in high regard. This difference in communication styles created many misunderstandings and mixed signals for me, and we ultimately ended up not understanding each other's feelings.
There is a certain class of English people that I totally refuse to get close to. You can explain it the way you want, but if they make you feel uncomfortable after exchanging the first three sentences, to me that's a level of toxicity that I do not need to waste any time at all.
In my experience, most people are very nice. It's when they go online and share their true feelings it upsets me.
Agreed entirely.
British are reserved which is why they oftentimes misunderstood. But gut feelings are usually accurate. I got you, indeed with few conversations you’ll be able to gauge if you feel comfortable being around the person.
Scousers!
@@JanBanJoovi-ol1qv exactly, the British are a bit cold, they're just not Italian, but that doesn't mean they're bad and all people are individual too.
It is well know in France that too much politeness is a way too keep people at distance
I love how in French you can say the worst insults in most polite terms 😁
So clever❤I agree with your comment.
A way TO
Can you elaborate on how French people practice that?
Because the English channel is sometimes not enough? :))
“If there is anything I can do?” Usually means “under no circumstances should you ask for help.” in my experience. Or “You should look me up the next time you are in the UK.” Is not actually an invitation!😂
Yes 😂😂
Classicaly said after major trauma and death. They don't ACTUALLY want to do anything, they want the sufferer or the bereaved to make THEM feel better
It's an art ! Saying the exact opposite of what yur guest or a non native fellow could "normally" understand. British way of live is full of fog... Not only thames river.
Snideness is your personal favourite
I was recently very ill and noticed that everybody asked my friend how I was but nobody offered help and when I did speak to people they said “you are strong you’ll get over it” which meant “I have no intention of giving you any help”! I found it deeply unpleasant, showed me who my friends were, and maybe made me determined never to do the same thing, although I am actually someone who gives too much help, perhaps?
It also made me wish I had remained in America, where I lived for a short time in the 70s, where people were so generous, supportive and helpful in the face of other peoples illness or bereavement. Coming from the UK, I was constantly amazed by the generosity of Americans.
I talked to a Nigerian woman in England who graduated in Commercial Law. She outsources NHS working practices to other countries. She complained about men’s attitude to women in Nigeria, but she also complained that in England “a person could hate you and you wouldn’t even know”.
Particulary if racism is the reason.
Это ужасно. У человека должно быть право защищаться, если кто-то ненавидит его и вредит его репутации за его спиной.
The most common phrase used to break the awkward silence in Britain is “I’ll put the kettle on”!
I think my favourite example of English indirectness and understatement would be Her Late Majesty's "1992 is not a year on which I shall look back with undiluted pleasure".
Meaning " it was shit." :) nice.
Archaic and unnecessarily complicated language.
But recollections may vary… 😏
Also described by the late Queen herself as an annus horribilis.
@Recollections may vary' was my favourite.
I would not call any of these passive aggression. I would call it passive avoidance.
So true. Perhaps a form of cowardice 🥹😆
A far more accurate description! Thanks
Well, it seems to me that passive-aggression crops up with a disparity in the power balance between people, with the more dependent side being more passive and the perceived upper hand being more aggressive. This is exacerbated by the class system in England. Pigeon-holing by perceived class is universal amongst the British. Luckily, I come from a theatrical background which helps me to escape the class strictures to some extent and excuses my occasional eccentricity. Plus I'm a republican by nature and the class problem doesn't enter into it for me.
Agreed. "Passive aggressive" is one of those glib overused expressions. I mostly don't consider the examples in the video as aggressive.
Since I've been a fan for 50 years of English sitcoms like 'Are You Being Served, Fawlty Towers and Keeping up Appearances" I'm well aware of the classic disguised insults
Yes ,Basil was a master of the disguised insult and sometimes not so disguised.
This video was so interesting that I may consider liking it. :) And seriously, as a person from Central Europe who is used to the honest, direct, and open communication that is the norm in countries like Poland, Germany, or the Netherlands, I would love to watch a video called "Get to know English ways of insulting people with rude 'politeness' and indirect arrogance: Tips for non-native speakers of English." xD
I had a situation when I met a British couple whom I had a very sweet communication with in a bar. Then I remembered I planned a hike to a mountain and invited them. They looked so excited and said "YESSS LET'S GO WE ARE IN!"
Then guess.. They never answered my message on WhatsApp after that xD
As a Russian I never could understand the "Anglo-Saxon" way of communication. And I realized I lean towards more direct and open people because they are transparent and predictable and I feel much safer and relied with them, also they seem more confident because the more confident you are = the less you are afraid to be real
Your sense of entitlement and self-centered attitude is kinda too much. The common rule of thumb is - it is better not to believe ruzzians and to avoid them as much as possible.
@@-Mitra-
She's not entitled- she's genuine and being honest about what throws her off. Rude UK ppl.
As for your 'rule', this is YOUR rule, and a toxic one too. My rule is to gravitate to the best and kindest people, and so far my closest friends are Russians. And I'm a sensitive soul, I can't stand toxicity. They're the purest people I've ever met.
Glad you stay away from them, they don't need people like you 🧟 in their lives!!!!!
I'm a New Zealander but we've clearly inherited some British traits, including avoiding disagreement, sardonic humour, understatement, and lots of litotes. I quite enjoy the use of understatement as it lets you speak forcefully while remaining quiet (and it's often a chance for humour).
As a kiwi, thé lack of frankness in UK communication Is extremely annoying. The so called politeness at its root is simply a fear of giving offense, ie the fear of man. And hinders good solid relationships
Really interesting and well presented. The way English is used in UK has the class system so deeply and subtlety embedded in it that it must be so baffling to non native speakers
This implies our interest in it.
I preffer open and honest comunication - no sarcasm, no eufemism and artifficial behaviour and no hiden agendas. Other cultures, traditions, philosophies are also thousands of years old and they need to be respected and understood - two ways and equal.
Thank you for your videos. Even though I lived in the UK for more than 12 years, I still find it difficult to cope with the vague and confusing ways to use language. I come from a very straightforward culture and this is very useful. I find interesting the “you may want to do this…”. I also find interesting how this avoidance of conflict decreases productivity, and it is accepted. Thank you for your videos.
“you may want to do this…” is constructive criticism and is a lot better than saying what you produced missed the point and that had hadn't seen the drawbacks of your proposal.
@@dacorum8053 I disagree. But I am Australian.
As a Bulgarian coming from much more direct, straight forward and easy type of communication being surrounded by this type of behaviour is like walking on an eggshells. That’s why I pure and simple try to avoid it as much as possible 😅 it looks too fake for my Eastern European sensitivity.
Come up orth big man
Thanks for broaching this topic! As a native British person I find the British passion for saving face & indirectness both anthropologically interesting & consummately irritating in daily life. A phrase that I’d like a whole video be done on is: “If that makes sense”. Those four words hold so much barbed meaning much of the time when used in general conversation I find so it becomes hard to discern when it’s actually meant from the stance of the speaker genuinely being unsure if they are being sincerely understood/concerned what they are saying mightn’t actually make sense. All to often find this phrase is being used as power play to convey personal authority or & superiority by the speaker to whom they’re chatting with. Another word that’s often used in the prior described power play is “obviously”. When it’s used repeatedly by a speaker I now immediately infer the speaker wants to appear authoritative & condescending at the same time while actually their unlikely to know much about what they are talking about, or are in fact unsure of their accuracy themselves. Hence see it as a ruse to make their respondent feel uncertain of their right to ask questions, prowess/knowledge/experience of the topic being addressed. Hope that you do more deep diving videos on this topic! Thanks again.
As a Finn with natural habit of silence and pretty direct communication with supposing that people actually say what they mean I'm thinking now how hard it would be to communicate with a British person :D
Don't let me put you off!! :)
You should call them out when they give slizy answers
They are usually much more direct once you become friends.
communicate as you do, they can also do some of the adjusting :-)
I’m English and I have Finnish friends. We get along just fine ☺️
I think a lot of this stems from feeling like you can’t speak your mind without getting into trouble. If we did speak our minds we would be considered rude and therefore be looked at negatively.
i feel and hate this. just feels like everyone's scared and anything you do innocently could be made into something massive and absolutely unacceptable. Everyone looking to make sure their every action and presentation is acceptable and maybe, just maybe, worthy of a decent human being. its just serious insecurity, lack of love and acceptance, belonging and respect for one another. Sarcasm and complaining seem funny but they don't help the situation. It feels as though existing is "illegal" and you have to be very careful because you might just do something only a really bad and horrific person would do. So you constantly have to prove that you're a good person. It's that feeling. Just anxiety, depression, misery, insecurity and a general lack of normal social behaviour. It often feels like the only way to be happy is through drinking and going on nights out. The fact that 'clubbing' is called 'going out' says it all. Of course its gotten worse post 2010 due to youtube, netflix, instagram and rising poverty/inequality... Going abroad and shaking this feeling off feels so good. as soon as you touchdown here, its back to no empathy or love for you just perform flawlessly and perform your duty or face the wrath of everyone else who's scared.
'Fear of speaking one's mind' is very new to the English and, in my view, completely un-English. One of the ways we bond is by ribbing each other. Such banter quickly exposes the duds.
how is it helping you now?
I also noticed, that people who speak directly are considered idiots, and people who talk about their feelings are considered weak. People who open up are taken advantage of. So I think this indirectness and reserve is just self-protection.
Only if what you are thinking is rude I suppose.
Otherwise we give the impression that we're always thinking horrible things, and it's only politeness that stops us saying it. Most of the time I can say I don't think horrible things about people. Most people are absolutely fine.
Wonderful.
No really it is.
Now I realise why as a british man no one believes a word I say.
😂😂
We do this too in my part of the US. I guess people from other parts of the world need to learn to interpret English speakers not just through their words, but also through tone of voice and body language. I absolutely know the difference between a sarcastic "brilliant" from a Brit and an enthusiastic "brilliant". We don't say "brilliant" here, but we do the same thing with words like "awesome".
Ambiguity in communication, especially when you are about to sign a contract is a remedy for disaster. When you read a contract that was drafted by a country that runs an adversarial common law system, you notice the intentionally made cumbersome language as part of a strategy to bury, confuse, and conceal.. Try to compare the drafting of a Dutch or German contract to that of an English or Canadian one both in terms of the length and clarity of the clauses, and you will get the idea. An escape clause is an English invention. Only lawyers can rea;;u understand that elaborated and cumbersome language by design. Understanding an English contract is gymnastics of the mind. English contract law is mostly based on case law rulings on the basic elements of a contract: offer, consideration, and acceptation. A lawyers need to memorize 120 cases to master English contract law.. When you negotiate with the English, you never know where you really stand--acceptable! So what you do? You impose your norms and play hardball all the way through, and give very clear instructions to your lawyer.
It was a nice explainer. Here in Malta, an ex British colony we do this too.
See? Passive aggressiveness. It’s in your blood
As an English autistic person with social communication issues this is helpful thanks.
I was just thinking how useful this video is for people with those kind of issues
Hello from Poland! Darling, you are heaven sent! Not only that I'm polish but I'm also a surgeon which makes me extremely direct. Now I realise the roots of my struggle in comunicating with british people. Thank you!
As an alternative opinion, I suggest not trying to "play the game". This is just a suggestion and I'm not making a strong recommendation. I don't waste my time suggesting things to people that report to me: I say "please do X" if I really want them to do it. If I make a suggestion it's only a suggestion. If my boss tries to give me advice and I think it's wrong I don't instantly give up on what I was planning to do until I have explained why. For this I think I become a "character" :-) in some people's eyes but it's better because I'm forcing people to show their hand. Later on when some action turns out to be a disaster I can't be told "it was only a suggestion" and similarly if something I tell someone to do goes wrong, it's my fault and my team members can trust me to take the blame for it. All of this indirectness just destroys the language - it pollutes the meaning of everything and leaves the communicators in doubt and it puts the burden of accepting social unpleasantness on the listener which is cowardly, in my opinion.
I couldn’t agree more
I agree with you. Communication should be direct and not put the burden of figuring out the message on the recipient.
Best comment👏👍 I am South African and refuse to "play the game". Plus I rely on body language and can spot "false" a mile off.
I think Americans can do euphemism pretty well too! The PR person in the US military who invented the term "collateral damage" was an absolute grandmaster of the art! It makes the bombing, burning, butchering and maiming of innocent civilians sound like...well...like a regrettable but insignificant minor water leak while the pipes are being fixed in the road...
Yes, Anglo Saxons are masters at describing their atrocities in fluffy soft and socially acceptable language
At least the Yankees are mostly direct
You can use euphemisms if your direct
But give euphemisms to a spineless?
Americans are british
The BBC are masters too. It is almost impossible to hear from the BBC that some organizations are terror groups. At best, they are referred to as combatants, militia, etc.
This post is very interesting, and I mean it. After a while living in the UK you start to appreciate sarcasm and understatements. Or translated into a more direct language: you learn how to give them a dose of their own medicine. 😂😂
"I'm really sorry that you feel that way" is my favourite.
It pisses me off 🙂 although people may be really sorry that I feel that way.
Absolutely! It drives me insane! They will never say sorry for upsetting you, they will say sorry that you are feeling upset. After having spent 25 years in the South East, I am convinced that the hardest thing for an English person is to admit that something was their fault. All these “sorry” words mean very little regret in practice.
Yes
I enjoyed your clear observations, thank you!
I'd like to comment that, as a Scottish person who has lived in England for decades, this "Britishness" is mainly an English trait.
The Scots can be more direct, and many will "seek clarification" as a means of preserving social harmony, rather than avoiding embarrassment!
It is amazing that there are more Brits living in the Greater London area than in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland combined.
Britain stretches from the north of Shetland to the south of Scilly and is populated by British people. The passive aggressive speech of which you speak is a characteristic of poncy, middle class people in the south east of England. In other parts of Britain, there are different "manners" and in many parts of the UK people are much more direct and view this southern style of speech as cowardly, devious and manipulative. For the Southerner,venturing north, they struggle with directness and honesty and will characterise Northerners as blunt, direct and aggressive. If you are coming to the UK, you will find a huge variation across the country. If you like honesty and directness head north, but if you prefer obfuscation head for the south east.
😅
We're pretty direct here in Wales too, especially in the south 😂
My family is from Yorkshire as is my wife's, passive aggressiveness and indirectness is still a feature.
Direct is having the guts to tell someone exactly what you think about them in plain English rather than talking about them right in front of them in your troll language.
As a visitor from Canada have experienced the variations in speech customs. Quite off-putting and leaves you questioning your sanity when people play word games and mean the opposite of what they are saying. They create unhealthy relationships, hostility and unnecessary problems for themselves.
Many years ago we had an eastern European friend, who was uncommonly attractive and a nice person. One evening after a few drinks, a young male acquaintance decided to eulogise her appearance. "You're so beautiful", he told her. "This is true", she told him in heavily accented English, "but it is genetics", she replied in a way only someone raised in the former Eastern bloc could, returning to normal conversation as if nothing had happened. When I hear about directness of speech, that was a classic!
Could you please explain what was wrong with her answer? What your friend expected to hear in this case? (I'm from Eastern Europe)
I suspect she wasn't being direct, and that this was her way of saying that she'd prefer to be complimented on something she'd actively developed, such as her work or something else such as painting or poetry.
@@lcolinwilson8347 It is different from many people in the west, who trade on their looks while denying they offer any special advantage. She agreed her appearance was uncommon in a very un-British way, but I don't recall her leveraging her assets as a "special" person.
what's wrong with stating facts?
"a way only someone raised in the former Eastern bloc could" what's that way?
I do appreciate polite directness, hate double speech and sarcasm - unless it really functions as humor.
If we don't say what we mean, why bother at all....
Basically, it is socially encouraged to be insencere, which in most of the world would be viewed as a serious character flaw.
I can't quantify, but whether most or much of the world, has far more layers of social niceties than the British: try Japan, Thailand, Arab cultures, and more.
I'm English and lve in the north and we are very direct and friendly
Because it is. A spiritual, intellectual and a moral flaw.
Interesting observation on my side. As a Polish American who has spent over 30 years in business environment in the USA I must say that all of your examples from the British culture that you quoted would ring a warning bell as well in my mind if I heard them in any context in the USA.
Classic US example: "Don't call us, we will call you" - meaning " you will never hear from us again" or simply - f*** off.
Brilliant comment, and so true. Said by an English woman, married to Tunisian, with a Peruvian daughter and grandchildren.
Ive worked in USA for 30 years .American workfirce is the most I have ever seen people in a work.place ,literally scared to lose their jobs .So youre talking s it 😂
In my experience I’ve found that men from working class backgrounds are much more direct in their speech. Also northerners are more direct the southerners. So middle class women from the south of England are the best at this type of speech. The way words can be used to put someone in “ their place”.
It is deeply class-based. I'm frequently accused of being rude for simple directness while the many boarding school types I know will be downright nasty, spiteful and controlling through passive aggression and call it polite. It's also unfortunate that directness from women is less tolerated than from men.
Thats why up North is poor, and racist. No one like them.
@@Sam-mf8pj You are better off.
@@Sam-mf8pj I think you're prejudiced - to some extent.
True
Being of French-Canadian stock, after listening to your reasoning, it makes me wonder if you meant, 'I would really like to hear your comments.' or, if you meant, 'I hope none of the Colonists ever respond to this video. I'm off for tea.'
What I love about the Polish culture is that they are very straightforward, at the beginning it is harsh haha but later I appreciate more and more and I don’t need to read between the lines or decipher the message.
Thank you
The good thing is that direct approach saves you time and makes private conversations deep and meaningfull.
I’m Polish I think i know all about I have been married to an English man for 46 years and I have “nice” English family
nice 🎉
condolences
The longer I live in the UK (been here for 20 years) the more clearly I see the discrepancy between what they really mean and what they say.
So this video helps understand why it is so difficult to understand Brits to those from other cultures than British.
Some of us . Further up the socio economic scale the less direct etc people are generally. . Rich people however I find can be very direct - why they’re rich I’m thinking ie direct.
Surprised it took you 20 years to figure this out. Took me less than two years
@@serenityinside1 I used to work with very reach and powerful people in other countries - many of them very frank. They strong enough to hold the truth about many things. So you can be honest with them too.
Genuinely interesting! I hadn’t particularly thought about this but it’s true. There are lot of phrases that are effectively meaningless in real terms. Let me think about it, leave it with me, I’ll call you etc. I do make lightly sarcastic comments but not to non English speakers because they don’t get it. Also I find that when an English speaker says ‘how are you’ non English speakers take as a question and want to know how to respond, rather than treating it simply as a greeting. There are however occasions where something like ‘let me think about it’ is actually meant and you can only tell from the way it is said. Similarly ‘call me’ can be an actual instruction not a brush off and probably only an English speaker would know the difference.
As a South African I struggled with it for years. Now I don’t care , as all these layers complicate the persons own communication. I simply pay no attention and say or do what I know to be the correct way to handle a situation directly and let it be known. Luckily, I own my own business. When I was younger being lower on the work ladder it certainly is debilitating.
🇿🇦👌🏼
Is Britain the most two faces nation?
Try Japan.
I love your question. (I'm not British I'm French)
Japan?
How about.............no
No, we are sophisticated
The best English put down to a rant was,'Im sorry you seem to have mistaken me for somebody who gives a shit' direct,sarcastic and to the point.
Kiwi here, there's a lot I recognize and think is familiar, but when I actually come across a native Brit, generally greater London / Home Counties, I am shocked by how rude the first couple of minutes of conversation are - to my ear. It's passive aggressive, sarcastic, testing, wrong-footing tactics in order to pigeonhole the individual. It's potentially because we don't have an exact match for the coded stuff from the UK - schools, hobbies, interests, views, politics, family wealth etc. Once the process has been done to the satisfaction of the questioner it's generally fine, but it's painful to go through.
Yeah. It's nasty and class-based.
Sounds like a blast, I would figure out how to dodge that next time!
I have a weird habit (so Im told) that I when I met someone, I push their buttons just to get a reaction and see how far I take things.
so perceptive and definitely true.
Yep I'm done with living here, originally from the North living in the South for nearly 30yrs my directness has definetly been quashed.
The problem with the method of communication described is that much is left to the recipient of the message. This is not a problem if it is an exchange of views between Britons. However: if it primarily involves English speakers, it is already a problem, let alone when English is not the primary language for the other party. Those non-native speakers usually have to do a translation job in their heads (English to native language and vice versa). They also have to figure out the peculiarities of British slang and meta-communication. This can only lead to one conclusion: such a way of communicating with a non-native speaker is just plain rude.
Coming from a culture myself, where directness is highly valued (and believe me: even in such a culture, there is indeed a distinction between civilised direct and rude) , I can sometimes be extremely annoyed by this British behaviour. In my contacts with my English friends (I really have them! 🙂), I really appreciate it when they abandon their fake politeness (because that's how it feels to me).
I agree... Am originately half German culture (Switz & Tirol) and half American (irishs and scot-irishs).... But born and educated in france. I had my life long to face (and fight (!)) with these "cultural subtilities" between all those countries. I lived and worked abroad and sometimes I was rude myself with colleagues who didn't catch the meaning of a business talk. Saying brutally during a debriefing " No.! he is American ok ? Å southerner... Yu didn't understand what he said" .... "Yesterday the guy was a brit ! Totally another world. And tomorrow with a German.. A Switz or a Scandinavian... it gonna be another world... Again ! Remain focused... Learn... Avoïd mistakes." . With my british boss we lose several big contracts on real estate port folios becose he ignored typical gesture and ways of talking (and practicing business) of... Southern Americans.
The problem is with foreign people to any country is that they think that learning words and syntax is all that is needed to go to and speak in said country. They must learn the culture and all the colloquial language and nuances. I did twice, it's hard but a must, but when you get it, it's then really uplifting and a joy. You are truly part of said country.
British passive aggression is by far my biggest frustration as a couples coach. It drives me nuts to be honest. That said, teaching direct, authentic communication is also the most satisfying part of my job.
I have been working in ESL/ EFL for over three decades, but have never seen this kind of info included in ANY teaching materials!!! Brilliant stuff!!! (I mean it 😉)
"Interesting" sometimes means "That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard."
People mean 'that's so strange'... But its said in a very obvious humourous tone, so you should know they are joking. It's said like this: "iiiiinteresting 😂"
😂😂😂
Quite the same in Japanese. 😂
A mine field of possibilities to step into a puddle....as the saying goes, "The continentals are too honest to be polite while the Brits are too polite to be honest."
Sometimes what you consider polite may not be considered so by other cultures.
I come from Spain, and I consider british people rude due to this constant sarcasm, irony, and other passive aggressive misbehaviours. Of course not all british people are like this, but it is sadly a very common behaviour. Its root should be studied and extirpated, and the people reeducated. It probably has to do with a sense of superiority, imperialism, etc.. It does give a very bad image of british people all around the world. I wonder if it has to do with the characteristic bad weather, but then I remember how nice irish people are. I think scottish people are nice too. Welsh are certainly similarly kind. So, the thing serms to come from England, mostly. Am I wrong?
Interesting, considering the British probably think they are the most polite people on the planet.
Yes, I am sure the English are the worst. Or nearly.
I don't think you're wrong. The constant mixing up English and British is annoying. I'm Scottish - British, if you want - but, we in Scotland tend to be direct in our communication. We mostly mean what we say, and say what we mean. Much of what's in this video is about English people!
Don't pat yourself on the back too hard. You aren't the jovial Irish. There is a noticeable traunch of Scots who are so dour and miserly in their demeanor and talk as to make talking to a double meaning passive aggressive London posho seem like a joy in comparison.
100 percent correct.
I've travelled all over the World and now live in Asia and I speak good Thai, When talking to people on my travels I use basic English to communicate with the locals if they understand and I never confuse them with double talk just basic English that gets straight to the point,that's always worked well for me and them.
The difference is that you are abroad and adapt to those around you. This video is about non-natives encountering natives in their own country. When I lived in Japan I didn't expect Japanese people to change for me.
How silly - simply mean what you say and say what you mean - let your yes be yes and your no be no. That way, everyone sknows where they stand. This passive agressive stuff is deceptive.... 😢 Thank you for sharing 💖
👏👏👏 you speak out of my heart ( sleeves ). I am German.😻
What an incredibly interesting intercultural subject! Thank you for making this video. And of course when you are British it is not so much but when you have contacts with other people from other countries.
I’m Hungarian, my wife was English. Sadly she died two years ago after over 25 years of marriage. We lived in Hungary and Germany. I used to live in London and in Kansas US for a while. The contrast among these people was and is quite significant. Without noticing, I also picked up the Britishness (nearly 30 years cannot pass without leaving some marks) but I still say what I think as Hungarians mostly do but not like the Germans directness, though been living in Germany for 14 years now.
My wife worked in an international environment but still with many Germans and I had to listen her sort of complaining every evening about things happened in the office which came back to the difference between the way Germans and English communicate… mostly anyway. I couldn’t describe the exact reasons but it was quite obvious for me.
The other one was when we were still back in Hungary and me working also in a multinational organisation. Once we had a big project involving many programmers from all over the place. One guy his name was Mice 😁, was Cockney. My fellow colleagues kept saying that they just couldn’t understand him. Obviously it was also down to his strong cockney English. I was the only company for him 😄 Again I didn’t realise at the time that it was not only me understanding cockney but being surrounded by the English family and friends I picked up quite a bit, or at least understood most of it.
Sometimes this causes some difficulties in my new relationship (French 😅)
An other journey 😄 but will still consider myself a little bit British, just a little bit 😂
Im, English married to a German for 35 years, and for 40 of my 70 years I’ve been a foreigner living in France, Germany, USA and now Spain. It is my belief that you need to understand the culture of a country as well as its language before making any assumptions that the people of said country are being polite or rude. 😉🤓
Can you tell me please if euphemism in Spain, Germany and USA is used a lot ? Thank you.
Love your video! ❤ That's so true, and that’s why it’s sometimes not easy for us Europeans to talk to Brits. As continental Europeans and non-native English speakers, we expect clarity in communication and a certain directness, with the opportunity to discuss all issues. However, Brits often approach things differently, avoiding saying 'no' directly or expressing their opinion outright. In general, I notice cultural differences between young Brits and their parents. British Gen Z don’t even try to be polite-they just don’t care! 😂
As someone who has lived here all my life, I'm still trying to understand the people here... I say what I mean and take others literally so it's often baffling for me.
Thanks for making these videos.
Really difficult to adjust as an immigrant, after many years still don't fell like I've got it every time.. not sure I even want to fully adopt these tactics tbh...
These insider takes, do not only imply great self awareness, but are extremely valuable trying to decode the unspoken, but obvious truths, lying underneath
I'm from a British family and believe me, I've had a lot of toxic passive aggression to deal with. I think it's strange that you think it avoids conflict, as I think the opposite. And I think it's a power play.
I’m not sure I totally agree. As a Brit working abroad I regularly employ sarcasm, irony, understatement and euphemisms and yet compared to middle-eastern or south-east Asian cultures I’m regarded as being as direct as a brick through a window.
I think though that the comparison does stand up when compared to American culture. Two nations divided by a common language… :)
English culture seems very similar to middle eastern societies in that way, that it's hostile, fragmented and tribal.In continental Europe the nation states provide a much stronger sense of community which leads to a direct, intimate way of communication.
Interesting, as an Indian in the UK it seems like maybe some non-British take British expressions/figures of speech literally, and that might make them feel like you're saying rather radical things.
As an African who speaks at least 3 east African tongues, and fluent in both English and French, I'll wager that what the English consider subtle to each other, can still come across as 'direct' especially when other forms of banter are used to cover up what is going on. English banter 'feels' rude to more older civilisations. There's a way the English almost let loose at banter that can come across almost as uncultured. The jokes are almost crass and borderline offensive and very masculine in nature and very niche. That can be off putting to the more inclusive and communal cultures where excluding others without reason is seen as unnecessarily hostile and cruel.
@@tinachristine4573 as an English person, I wish my English was as good as yours, and I mean that absolutely literally. You either had a very good education or put a lot of effort into educating yourself. Congratulations. You have made me feel like reading some good English literature.!
@@tinachristine4573very interesting
We Scots don’t generally do this English pish.
We are less arrogant.
Maybe I should move to Scotland! 🙂
I find Scots more direct than the English. Which is appreciated. 😊
Many years ago, as an exchange student to England, I eventually ended up with a bunch of Scottish friends. I had never made a distinction between English and Scottish people before, but once my new friends started talking about their family background, I realised they were all from Scotland :)
Scots sound aggressive just asking ‘pass the salt’
I heard Frederic Raphael say that the British, when in conversation, are always predicting their interlocutor’s response before they themselves speak, which he found frustrating. It hinders sincerity.
I agree, we can't be fully engaged when doing this.
There is a distinction, between withholding sincerity, perverting it and wasting it on fools.
There are many good reasons to hinder sincerity.
Yea but "you stink" gets a brick thrown at ya head, theres a lesser of two evils dynamic at play here, its not so cut and shut.
Being Polish living in England, I didn't know some of these examples of passive aggressiveness. I do understand most of the language, grammar, words, idioms, but this taught me another skill :) Polish people are a way more direct than British :) Some of my co-workers must have noticed that :) Great video, thanks!
I've just discovered you channel and it's fascinating. I'm watching from Poland. We, the Poles are painfully direct, we say what we think from the beginning and are easy to say NO. This culture difference complicated my work with American once who are similar to the British. When my boss told me that she "will think about it" or "that's a good idea, let's talk about it next week", which never happened, I got really annoyed because I kept working on a project she obviously didn't like and I lost my time, instead of working on something else. They also made the simplest "issue" very complicated. E. g. There was a landline phone for clients in the reception area, almost never used by clients but very often by some Polish employees, which made the bills higher and higher and it was impossible to find out who made those expensive at that time calls to the US. I was supposed to write a memo to all the employees about the problem asking them POLITELY not to use this phone. It didn't work because my American manager changed my message in such a way that it was sooooo polite that everybody just ignored it. I tried to tell her that the Polish employees will get the message only if it is direct. She didn't agree. After a few polite messages nothing changed, so I wrote another message without telling her which said, more or less. "Try to use the phone again, and I will install a camera and you will pay for the bills". After that, the problem magically disappeared. I adore British sarcasm😅
My friend is from Peru and totally takes things the wrong way from what I say to her. She just doesn't 'get' the intricacies of the English language. Thank you for this video. Insightful!
In most Latin American countries we mean what we say. It is very confusing when you say you'll do something you don't mean to do!
As a non native English speaker, I think the "passive aggressiveness" is very British. I found Americans are not passive aggressive (in general, they are more direct). I think in the UK, when someone says something nice to you, I generally do not take it as a sincere compliment. I also often find that in the UK when someone wants to "verbally attack" another person, they always say something nice first (particularly the middle class people - like they want to show how "classy" they are but in reality, they are "trashy" by shredding other people through their words / politeness).
I’ve never heard of indirect speech being a form of passive aggression. I have a friend who speaks very indirectly, and she also uses passive aggression spitefully, it causes me a lot of misunderstanding. Sarcasm in certain circumstances can definitely be used in that way, but it can also be part of banter among friends. I much prefer direct speech and to be able to use it myself, but what I have often run into is that people read some kind of subtext into it that is not there, it can be very confusing. When other people are indirect, I often totally miss that I’m supposed to read a subtext and I just take their words literally. When people don’t just say what they mean and mean what they say, it is a form of lying and I find it hard to trust or respect them.
That is so me too! Often it's just our insecurities being made manifest in our reaction to it. If find if I know the person well, there is no ambiguity. So a lack of familiarity of the person and our insecurities can make us uncomfortable.
I also find it an annoying waste of time. As well as humiliating and hurtful.
In Australia where i live as an immigrant, apparently people who actually like you may decide mocking teasing is a way to: get your attention/show you want to connectt?!
My response is to get away asap.
Toxic Friends?
There is a form of stroke-induced brain injury that results in the complete loss of the ability to speak in the active voice. Mmmm. Passive voice with a British accent.
It's the culture, you have to learn it and how to think in the language. I know 2 other foreign languages and had to learn the culture by living there as well as the language. That's standard language and the colloquial difference of the regions. Not easy but a must.
Straight to the point. As an Italian used to a way less polite and more sincere, confrontational and direct communication, in my 3 year experience in London I definitely suffered from this. And do you know why? Because you clearly notice you're being attacked or judged, but since they're not doing it directly, you can't respond directly. It's such a cowardish communication style.
I feel for you👍👍 You've managed to articulate what I have sometimes on emotional level.
I'm French and I used to live in London for 3 years. I'm not saying we honest like the Germans or the Dutch, but we say the true quitw often. The UK is crazy most of the Brits are polite and reserved except when they go to the stadium. Talking to people it's very strange too. Because it's just like you talk to them but you don't feel their presence like they're here but not here a the same time. Passive aggressiveness is awful. I loved to live in London honestly and to see all of those people coming from the all world. But at the same time we barely speak to each other .. so what's the point ? Im from Toulouse (south France) we definitely nicer than Londoner's.
As you lived in the UK, I guess you understand that the Brits who go to the stadiums, drink Heineken and go to Benidorm/Magaluf for a summer holiday are the disctinct social group of the British.
Malaysian here. Lived in Nottingham from 2006 to 2010 for uni.
"It has an interesting taste" = it is not delicious
"You've got an interesting looking hairstyle" = your hairstyle is ugly
I realised "interesting" means something else when spoken by my British friends back then... 😂
That is deceptive use of the language to me !!! Honesty is above all.
Will be looking for your "Read between the lines" video.
This is great. As a Polish-British I still struggle with it somewhat after 20 years, but it's more like my "direct mode" has taken a second seat, it's still there, but for the most part I operate in this indirect mode. But there can be times especially when I get frustrated by something, it short circuits and I expect direct answer or I take what is said at face value.
Thanks for sharing!
As an aside when people who usually use passive language suddenly switch to direct then you might need to watch out :)
Expat here in USA, and I must say I think you have well summerized the state of affairs, and with all the elegance of a real English rose.
As an Englishman who has lived abroad for nearly 10y in multiple countries, has foreign friends and has a Mexican wife, some of these I find utterly annoying.
When I come back for my annual visits I sometimes purposely choose to not participate in many of the mentioned social norms.
I will sometimes not bother with small talk, i will hold stares longer than people are comfortable with, I will interpret understated language as if it was not and respond as such, choose to not say sorry (i will say excuse me instead, which even freaks some people out lol) unless I actually do something wrong etc etc.
Luckily I have achieved financial independence, and thus don't need to do much people pleasing, unless I wish to 😂
After I have been rejected in many interviews,I VE realise that British do not say what they think in most circumstances!
Honestly I prefer central European style ,you know with who you talk when you having a meal ! 😅
Canadian who had in-laws who are from England - the whole passive aggressive bullsh*t yup I can relate -
I just called people on it, for example I would say to my sister-in-law who was being rude and passive-aggressive; “so what you’re saying is you’re being condescending and rude but you don’t have the confidence to say it directly, correct?” My sister-in-laws face dropped and she abruptly left the room. Needless to say she chose to avoid me, win-win!!
Also people would assume I was American then some rude comments would happen, again I called people on it, and they had no clue what to say to my directness. Generally they slithered away.
We Jugoslavians, then Italians, Greek, (for i know that folk) , we are loud talking, loud laughing and saying what we mean.😂 We love good food, good mediteran music and dance, nice glass of shiraz and we are natural. We do not use much of sarcasm. Maybe here and there. And yes, we do not use on every step the polite phrases : "please" or "excuse me" , or "sorry".
For example : On a busy bus station someone steps on my foot. I say ouch then i say : sorry. 😂
Greetings from Spain! Thank you very much for this topic. I think that some of those passive-agressive demeanors are just polite ways to handle certain situations. I'm personally not a great fan of direct communication anymore as it can become problematic with antagonistic people. In other situations, circumstances don't allow expressing feelings directly and the message needs to be read between the lines. Once, I had to write an acknowledgement in a thesis cumplimenting a very neglectful tutor who refused to have any follow-up meeting to review my draft. Thus, I wrote something like "he encouraged me to be proactive and self-suficient" as that was my only way to express my frustration in a situation where direct communication with him was not an option due to power imbalance.
PS. I own that my acknowledgment there was indeed passive-aggressive 😅
as an introvert, I love this indirect of saying things... sometimes I get overwhelmed when I have to deal with Italian or Spanish...
Of course, because we say what we really think on your face. We are not fake people. And we are not scared of confrontation
I feel the same but the other way around. I get overwhelmed when people don’t mean when they say or they are not direct in their responses
Me too (60yo portuguese from Lisbon area). But up in the north people use to be much more direct. To me it feels rude to criticise someone on its face. Let alone being criticised!