The Real Reason The UK & USA Use Different Sign Languages
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- Опубліковано 7 бер 2023
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SOURCES & FURTHER READING
Difference Between ASL & BSL: www.skill-up.org/whats-the-di...
BSL History: www.ucl.ac.uk/british-sign-la...
ASL History: www.startasl.com/history-of-a...
Martha’s Vineyard Sign Language: www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...
BSL Word Order: garethejones.wordpress.com/20...
BSL With One Hand: elisabethward04.com/2017/12/3...
ISL: www.babbel.com/en/magazine/in...
Are you fluent in any sign languages?
No but I plan on learning soon :-)
I will be learning soon
I'm trying to teach myself ASL. Not for any specific reason, just because I want to be able to communicate with more people.
I can sign a tiny bit in DGS or the German sign language mostly the alphabet and some simple phrases I need for my job as an EMT. I've been waiting to learn more because it honestly is pretty fun but I havent had the time yet to do a proper course.
Nope, learning ASL tho
Switzerland has several sign laguages, and it's not even like the French one is the same as the French one used in France, or the Italian one being the same as the Italian one used in Italy etc.
Ineterms of region & usage, do the divisions follow the spoken languages?
@@ak5659 Do you mean to ask whether the divisions of the sign languages and spoken languages are the same? In the sense that whether a map showing where which language is signef and a map showing where which language is spoken would look the same? I would strongly assume that, yes, that is the case. Because it must be. Both when it comes to
1. the regions where French or German *sign* language respectively is used within Switzerland and where French and German spoken language respectively is used within Switzerland
2. when it comes to where each version of French is used, like signef Swiss French in Switzerland *and* spoken Swiss French in Switzerland while it's signed French French in France *and* spoken French French in France.
But, firstly, what I explained here are just my "I don't know how it could be different" assumptions, and, secondly, this is part of why I think that this isn't actually what you're asking about. Or was it? If not, maybe you can try to rephrase that question.
@@ak5659 After reading another comment here, your question - if I indeed did understand it correctly - would be much more "justified". I ended up not watching the rest of the video after leaving my comment only a couple of seconds into it. I decided I was too tired, if I remember corrrectly, to really be able to follow it. I will watch it some other time.
Same BTW between German and swiss German.
Admittedly the difference between Munich and Hamburg is bigger than "standard German" and swiss German but they are meaningfully distinct
I'm British but have two deaf American stepsisters so I'm well aware there are differences.
That said, as a hearing person I can often be unaware of the specifics. I also have a degree in German where the course involved spending a semester in Austria...
... yet I didn't know German and Austrian Sign Languages were distinct until fairly recently.
I am a CODA (a word that should be familiar due to the movie). My mom, though hard-of-hearing, did not become totally deaf and use sign language until I was in university. In fact, we attended ASL classes together. My level of ASL is intermediate+. I can converse with deaf people who use ASL, but it takes a lot of work. Super Thanks!
Thanks tozainamboku!
That movie is amazing! I have mad respect for you and your family.
Man thank you for the subtitles in this video
UA-cam generally adds Closed Captioning to the videos users upload. It may take a while before the Captioning is added. The auto-generated CC is usually fairly accurate, though some presenters with wonderful accents, like Scott Manley and his Scottish accent, can cause very interesting results.
7:01 the subtitles say International Congress of Education of the Death.
Finally, manually-produced captions. I'm not deaf, but I'm autistic, and since autists tend to have difficulty processing speech, subtitles make things much clearer for me. (And no, I don't qualify UA-cam's auto-generated captions.) Thank you. :)
They're even worse than they used to be because they're smaller now.
autogenerated captions are actualy 99.9% accurate. as a nonnative english speaker it really help. better than nothing.
@@Reichieru1 you can change size in video settings
@@rizkyadiyanto7922 However, the words appear and disappear quickly and do not appear as whole sentences.
@@rizkyadiyanto7922 [music]
I have a BA in Dutch linguistics. When I was taught in class about Dutch Sign Language (NGT) and Flemish Sign Language (VGT) - and BSL/ASL - and that they're seperate languages, even though their spoken counterparts aren't, and that NGT had an SOV order, whereas spoken Dutch has an SOV order with a V2 rule, I had a somewhat similar reaction to yours. It made sense when it was explained, though: it's not like all mute/deaf people came together and decided to make up signs based upon the spoken language. No, sir! They slowly developed their own ways of communicating by theirselves! In the same way spoken languages were formed!
YUP! NYC has a high number of Deaf Russian immigrants.
- The sign for 'soda' has altered slightly as the standard ASL sign suggests 'f*ck' in RSL.
- RSL has specific signs for 'chess' and 'notary public'. those two signs have started to spread through the local Deaf community.
Exactly, most sign languages are valid natural human languages.
Which is also how spoken languages happened lol. There was no universal guides or rules, different people in different parts of the world... well, they made shit up lol and it stuck.
@@charlesbrown4483, that is literally what I said in the last sentence
The only natural language that has emerged since 1900 is Nicaraguan Sign Language which emerged during the Nicaraguan Sign Language when a load of deaf people were evacuated to a remote monastery in the jungle. However they were forgotten for several years. When they were rediscovered, a new sign language had emerged among the community there.
Should investigate 🕵 for features natural 🍃 languages 📜 share.
I was once surprised that sign languages are not called "pounds" in English. The English money is called "libras" in Portuguese and "pounds" in English. The American kilos are called "pounds" in English and "libras" in Portuguese.
But it turns out that "libras" is an acronym for "Língua Brasileira de Sinais" ("Brazilian Sign Language") and it has nothing to do with pounds.
Kilos and pounds are different weights, it's not just a language difference.
@@Reichieru1 that's exactly why he called a pound an "American kilo".
@@amourax I live in the USA, we just call it a Kilogram- we learned the metric system in school
@@amourax In the late 80's I was in a deli in Hamburg. A 'pound' was 500g and a 'half pound' was 250g. I've no idea how widespread that was.
@@amourax It's still not correct. Kilos and pounds are specific units of weight and unrelated to each other.
kudos for this video
Really really many channels about languages just ignore sign languages. And in many polyglot meetings I'm the only one with sign language in my list. It's like two worlds.
Yes! I used Esperanto to talk about signed languages at international meetings! Many polyglots there (grin)
I learned ASL at 2 years old due to having had birth injuries that prevented me speaking until age 3.
Minor fun fact the Wakandan salute is ASL meaning hug or love.
The salute can be dated back to ancient Egypt
@@loveinpeace1214 that is another inspiration for it however the man who designed it specifically mentioned he drew specific inspiration from ASL
It's good that you included your very own subtitles in this video, so that deaf and hearing-impaired people (Or people who aren't very good at interpreting verbal speech) can know what you're saying properly. I hope you include this feature in your future videos. Thanks.
I'm a huge fan of your work, but this might by my favorite video yet. I know some ASL to communicate with some of my partial-hearing friends, but I never knew of its French history, or that BSL was entirely different! This was super fascinating to me, and I hope you continue to look into ASL/BSL etymologies as you go forward because I bet some of those are fascinating as well.
In the mid 90's I was in middle school/highschool. It was required that I (attempt to) learn another language. My options we Spanish, French, German, Japanese and ASL. I seriously considered taking ASL but ended up going with Spanish. During my adult life knowing basic Spanish has been a huge help. I don't know if I ever would have used ASL.
If you had learned it, opportunities would have been more likely to present themselves or you would have sought them out. Nothing wrong with choosing Spanish. Not dismissing that, but please don't dismiss the value of ASL.
School should be about critical thinking and broadening your horizons, not about what will be "useful" in a future workplace. Humans aren't robots and kids especially aren't just economic units.
Spanish is great (yo sí lo hablo) but a sign language will make you think about communication in a whole new way.
@@FoggyD It's about both.
@@Reichieru1 Ideally, yes.
cool that ASL was even an option. Where my husband went to high school the only option was Spanish
Look up Nicaraguan Sign Language when you get a chance. It's a Sign that developed spontaneously in the 80s (and probably in pockets before then). It's put forward to support the argument of the innateness of language ability, both signed and spoken, in humans and especially kids.
asl is awesome! i feel lucky to have learned some from a Deaf family member as a kid, and then getting to take classes in college. even as a hearing person, asl helps me organize my thoughts and helps me have a more concrete train of thought when i find my thoughts getting a bit muddled.
Nicaraguan Sign Language is the best language. As it's the only natural language we witnessed be birthed that isn't based on a preexisting language like pidgins and creoles.
I do love the story of NSL I mean, something similar must have happened for other sign languages to develop, but yeah, it wasn't properly observed before.
There is one other naturally developing sign language. It's in a rural village in.... I want to say Nepal? Somewhere in the Himalayas, the village has a high rate of deafness, so they developed their own sign language, and most of the village can speak it with some level of fluency.
I do LOVE Nicaraguan sign tho, it's such a cool story
I HIGHLY recommend the book "Talking Hands" by Margalit Fox. Some linguists go to an isolated bedouin community where, like Martha's Vineyard used to be, a large percentage of the population is deaf, so a sign language was spontaneously born. The cool thing is it they were able to discover that it takes about three generations for a sign language to develop from rudimentary gestures to complex sentence structure, and they talk about what we can learn about the development of languages in general from that. It's a super fascinating read.
Thanks looks interesting
This is straight up fascinating!! What an excellent idea for a video! I'm a huge fan of your books too! I signed up for Audible so I could get both!! Thank you for sharing this with us! I hope you are well and having a great day!!
Sign language is, at least for the BSL community, a key part of Deaf culture. It's vitally important to remember it's not a gimmick or something that is 'nice to learn'. It belongs to the Deaf community, and as hearing people, we must never forget that. Please, if anyone decides to learn BSL or whatever is the local SL, learn from a qualified Deaf tutor, not a well meaning hearing person - unless they are a CODA, but even then, Deaf is best. You'll learn not just the language, but also about the culture, history and so much more, and also meet Deaf people, a community that's often overlooked. Once you have a foot into the Deaf world, it will change your life.
Great video. I work as a BSL interpreter and totally geek out about sign language linguistics. You're totally right about sign languages being established and unique languages in their own right and with their own history.
Some linguistic alterations, BSL order doesn't necessarily follow the sequential OSV word order. Linguists found that often signed word order was established spatially rather than sequentially. A verb moves through the signing space in a particular direction moving between subject and object to indicate the meaning of the sentence. So for the sentence 'Tom hit John', Tom and John can be set up in any sequence but the verb to hit will always move from Tom (subject) to John (object).
Also sign languages aren't static, they're evolving the same as any spoken language. That includes tense - the established grammar is to use space to show tense and establish 'time lines' - an example is behind the signer being in the past and the further infront being further in the future. However, some signers use the sign 'BEEN' as an addition to verbs to indicate that something happened in the past, this is similar to adding the suffix '-ed' to a verb in English e.g. plan / planned.
Fascinating stuff! (Well I think so!)
I'm a CODA both of my parents were both born Deaf. I sign fluently. At one time people thought it was a universal language however, now we know it is not. If I move to the UK I would have to learn another language which would be BSL. Some words I could pick up however, are so different from the American Sign language! 90% of sign language is all in your facial expressions! And some of us sign American Sign language perhaps we'll sign some words differently! You also have your home signs Meaning, signs that your family makes up! When it comes to names, only a Deaf person can I honor you with a sign for your name! I am sure that a CODA could proxy if a Deaf person is unavailable at the time 🤣. I am constantly practicing because, new words are always evolving. I will tell you using sign language is literally exhausting! It seems as though you're using every muscle in your body to express yourself at least I do! I have a habit of acting things out even with hearing people I am very animated. That's why people look at me as though I'm strange 🤣! If anyone has any questions you're more than welcome to ask me. 🤟🤟✌🏼
Here's a thought from an interpreter who's discussed this with other interpreters.....
Everyone started wearing masks due to Covid. Question: Why did the presence of masks make some Deaf people suddenly very hard to understand while it seemed to have no affect on others? I've even spoken to Deaf people who've noticed the same thing. The distribution of each seems totally random.
The working theory is that some Deaf people put more grnmmar & punctuation on their and others put more on their face. Ifsyou're a 'hand grammar' person masks won't change much. If you're a 'face grammar' person there might be more difficulty.
Really just wondering if you've noticed this and what yopr thoughts might be.
@@ak5659 I'm from the US. Excellent question! Let alone not being able to hear now they have to wear masks around their mouths... which hinders their expressions! Especially when someone can read lips! As a CODA I can read lips as well as a sign 90% of American Sign language has to do with your facial expression so that said I really feel as though they felt extremely more isolated with the mask! Well I'm signing with someone, I am watching their facial expressions and their hand movements their eyes I'm reading your lips you name it... I'm all over the place! Being Deaf it is extremely lonely! Not only are there ears shut off from the world... now they have been silenced with a mask! And there are deaf people that could speak where you can understand them however, you're not going to understand because I have a mask on. Their voices would have been even more muffled. ✌🏼🤟
Loved this video! Got all the points rignt! I'm a hard of hearing woman who learned American Sign Language in college in Los Angeles, California. I learned the history of the language and of ASL linguistics back in the late 1980s when getting my degree in Deaf Studies. I have also traveled quite a bit and try and find books on local signed languages. I have one from Taiwanese sign, British SL, Mexican SL and even Japanese SL. I also saw International Sign (Gestuno) used when volunteering at the World Games for the Deaf in 1985 which were held in LA . International Sign was used at the opening ceremonies. I noticed that Deaf people are better at communicating across different languages than hearing people. They are used to dealing with that problem on a daily basis!
p.s. I have also learned Esperanto (grin) and have used it in my international travels. Small but interesting group of international folk!
Wow! I learned so much in this video! Thanks.
Thank you so much for making this! I spend so much time explaining that there is a difference between BSL and ASL as an American who knows BSL and is learning ASL. Also that there are over 300 sigh languages in the world, not to mention all the unique indigenous sign languages. While I love educating people on the differences it is frustrating not having many easy to understand videos to share with people if they want to learn more. Anyway the main point of this comment is to say thank you!
By-the-way great video thank you very much! 🤟
Dude, I really enjoy your videos-they’re quite fascinating-but you really don’t have to apologize for everything.
Fascinating Video, Thanks!
I’m glad sign language is getting recognized more and more in the 2020s. I’m hearing but an ASL learner. They are truly beautiful.
Another sign language that comes from the french is the spanish sign language (LSE), wich has different dialects, for example in Madrid, Albacete, Murcia and Malaga there are pretty noticeable differences in how we sign
Great video! I wish sign language was taught in schools. We learnt some sign language in primary school. For reference I am in Australia and went to school during the late 90's to mid 00's.
I am not fluent in ASL, and I barely know BSL exists, but I know that there is often much more variety in signs than in words in Englsh in ASL. There used to be quite a few different signs for computer primarily based on region, but from what I can gather video chat and time is settling down the occurrence of different signs.
For sure. Here in Texas we even have different sign slang between people in Dallas and people in Houston. Everyone has the opportunity to have their own spin on things, and the dialects of ASL can get pretty varied.
I absolutely love that you covered sign language. Sign language is so slept on.
Spelling in BSL has many shortcuts so isn't less efficient to produce than ASL. For example "ing" as used in many place names (Sterling etc) can be signed as one letter in one motion. Many letters are omitted as you would see in someone's written signature, such is the scope for fluidity with two hands.
If you're holding an umbrella, or a pint, then a new art form springs into being lol
I think a video about BSL without mentioning Thomas Braidwood was quite the oversight, but perhaps next time (both eyebrows raised)
I actually learned there were hundreds of signs languages a few months ago, and I was absolutely shocked. I don't know why. If there are hundreds of spoken languages, it makes complete sense there would just as many sign languages.
A while ago I discovered that in addition to the numerous national sign languages (Which I already knew somewhat about, But didn't understand the full scale of how many there were), There are also numerous regional and local minority sign languages, Such as Country Sign in Jamaica, Maritime Sign Language in Canada, And LaSiMa in Mali, Although unfortunately many of these are endangered and being replaced with ASL.
@@rateeightx Just as happens with spoken languages, unfortunately.
Could you please make a video about English phonics,or spelling rules in English. It's a request from a non English dominated country
For 4 years, I worked at New Mexico Relay Services, where I helped deaf people talk on the phone (my official job description was more PC, but that's it in a nutshell). I never mastered sign language, though I did attend a couple of basic comprehension classes to get familiar with certain quirks of expression so I could translate effectively. Until my current job, that was the best job I'd ever had!
I highly recommend Twin Rabbit's video on Plains Sign
Yay!!!! Thank you for addressing this subject!!!! ❤ so many think sign language is universal!!!!!!
Hello,
Thank you for this very interesting post : yes, PISL seems to have a good influence on ASL, combined with FSL (See Jeffray Davis, Hand Talk).
Do you know what kind of influences the Aboriginal sign language of Australia has had on Australian sign language ? This native language was used at the same level than PISL there...
Seeing the BSL's alphabet, It makes me think about monk's sign language; especially the Cistercian's one...
Thank you.
Cool stuff.
I feel sad that the Indian Sign Language (ISL) was completely left out of this video. It is part of the Indo-Pakistani Sign Language family. Interestingly, this language is largely the same across India, when there are 22 official languages normally. Can you make a video on this also?
I am Deaf British and understanding a lot of Indian Sign Language. 😊
I had no idea there were so many versions of sign language.
Logically it made sense, but I didn't expect the UK and US versions to be so different.
I don't know any sign language. But I was fluent in Braille, the writing for blind people.
I'm learning British sign language now. Seemed Interesting I'm not deaf so i just wanted am interesting one. I'm American so i had never heard of BSL so figured that would be fun.
There are 2 different sign languages in Australia due to different migration origins. Thankfully Auslan is becoming the popular standard in most states.
I’m really not sure what you mean here. There are various dialects of Auslan, but they are all the same language. The major division is north/south, but there’s also differences between generations.
I've often wondered which sign language I should learn. For context I'm a Swedish speaking Finn, though I'm guessing that doesn't matter much as I'm guessing Swedish and Finnish sign language are probably not all that similar in grammar and such to spoken Swedish and Finnish 🤔
That's an excellent queseion. I'd like to know myself. At a guess Iwd say ie would depend on how mutually intelligible Swedish and Finnish SL's are
In the introduction, why do you do you use the sigular «sign language» rather than the plural «sign languages» ?
Please do a video on names in sign language.
I mean, it should be obvious by how Americans and the British do their respective "middle finger" gesture.
Auslan (Australian sign language) is different again to ASL and BSL
Didn’t realise BSL finger spelling was the same if not identical to AusLan!
In a way these are conlangs imposed from above whereas English just went with the speakers wherever they went. The subset of American settlers using the ancestor of BSL wasn't big enough for it to take off in a scattered population I guess.
Sign language makes me think of those little signs Wile E. Coyote would hold up just before a big rock fell on him.
Basic signspelling is great to have at loud nightclubs😊
7:01 Whoopsies
Can we talk about Austro-Hungarian sign language being "now defunct"? Were there many people who would have fallen through the cracks and suffered as this "defunct-becoming" happened? Even if this happened very gradually, I can't help picturing people who, in their old age perhaps, found themselves needing to learn some other sign language, as the one they were fluent in vanished. I guess this can be the case for speakers of other rare languages, but there are so few people who speak any kind of sign language and many people who speak it can't choose to learn a common language instead, by reason of sensory disability. The potential for isolation by disability compounded by lack of communication strikes me as incredibly concerning. I guess it's similarly concerning and less obtuse to remember that plenty of folks who require it still never learn any kind of sign language at all. Still, with just those words ("Now defunct") I can't help but imagine possible language-less people wandering the earth like crestfallen aliens from a destroyed planet.
9:01 Not sure how accurate it is, But I think I heard somewhere that Gallaudet originally wanted to study sign language in Britain, But they didn't let him, So he went to France instead.
At the US federal level there are no official languages. However non-English-speakers have rights to interact with the government in their own languages, generally by means of an interpretor, usually at government cost. People who primarily rely on sign language have some additional federal rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and related legislation. ASL is easily accommodated because it's by far the most common sign language used in the US, however a person fluent only in BSL (or anything else really) would likely have the same rights when interacting with federal offices and agencies. In fairness, the availability of ASL interpreters is in much higher supply in the US so I can't promise the same level of convenience or speed of availability for BSL or other sign languages and in some locations they might have to make do with video links to the interpreter. Still the rights are there, we're just talking about the practicalities - and the same would apply to any spoken language that is not commonly used in the US. Spanish? Easy to find a qualified interpreter! The unique language of a small country with very few speakers worldwide and no historic links to the US? Not so easy, might take an extra few days.
Broadly, the same rights apply to state and local governments but the relationship of federal and local authority is a whole thing. (Generally, federal law supercedes state law except that some federal laws explicitly do not do so, or do not in some cases, as part of the text of the relevant federal law... it's a whole thing.)
Wow, I never thought sign language was done as far back as the 1500's!
It's a real lost opportunity that there isn't one universal sign language. Imagine, being able to talk to anyone regardless of local language (provided both can sign, of course)
I have to ask, perhaps there’s a Deaf person who can enlighten me, I’m sure they’re smart in this field. Is there a standardized set for Sign Language? I realized there’s a different set of sign languages for British and American. But there’s also a different language for French, Italian, Turkish, Indian, Indonesian. Just a quick question, does it really go on forever? Like a Northern French person can’t communicate with a Spanish person?
Signs are also used to silently give commands on the battlefield.
Just like the Languages of Native Americans, Native American Sign Language varies from region to region as well. I believe the one featured on your video is part of the plains sign language region.
Totally missed over a huge thing with sign language, is it is very localized too, even within a country. Like in Texas, we have signs that someone in Cali would not know. And even within cities, like we have some Signs in Austin, TX that someone in dallas may not know.
Overall you can easily talk still, but you might get a funny look :D I guess it can be more like slang.
Also you TOTALLY missed the topic of name signs!
sign language should be taught in schools to everyone
I’m so dumb lol I low key thought all sign language was the same haha
Here in the North of Ireland, deaf Catholics use Irish SL which is closer to ASL and FSL and Protestants deaf people use BSL. It means our deaf community is segregated
Elisabeth Ward is suddenly going to have a lot more subs.
Since this is a channel focused on names, I have a hot take regarding them: Most sign language names are kinda boring. I mean why do they all gotta have "Sign Language" in their names? We don't specify "Spoken Language" or even just "Language" in the name of spoken languages, So why specify for sign ones? I mean to be fair in some cases like French it's necessary to differentiate from a spoken language (Although they could of course just give it a different name, Perhaps "Parisian" as from what I can tell that's where it originally emerged, Or to differentiate it from the Parisian dialect of French, Maybe "Épéean" or something, After the Abbé de l'Épée who helped spread and popularise it.), But in other cases it's really not; There's no American language, No New Zealandish Language (Or Kiwi I guess, "Kiwi Sign" would be a cooler name anyway), No Maritimer Language, Et cetera.
Montana recognizing ASL as an official language must be a recent thing, because I wasn't required to learn it when I was in school.
Just because a language is official doesn't mean all schools have to teach it.
I feel like a universal sign language would be more useful than a universal spoken language, but it didn't catch on.
Who else finds it funny that Kumme found it necessary to illustrate the Native American sign language for "you"? Ah, how much clearer life became after the American tribes taught us we could POINT at people and objects.
great
So why not just teach international sign language and let it evolve with each culture unique concept? I mean, if I'mm deaf why do I need to have a language barrier with another deaf folk just to ask for a taxi or a glass of water in his sign language?
Same reasons we don't have one universal vocal language.
For the sane reason you learned English and not Esperanto.
this is stupid. we need a universalized Sign Languages
I think sign language should be universal, I mean poor deaf people, imagine trying to speak with another deaf person and they speak another language
there is a universal sign language, and most ppl who sign know at least some of it. plus, if ppl wanna travel they can just learn the new sign language, at a basic conversational level, just like everyone else who travels to another country typically has to do.
if i was planning a trip to Russia i'd prolly learn some Russian, at least enough to get by as tourist.
Like me, perhaps, going to Quebec and trying to communicate with the locals who don't speak English?
It's not called universal sign language, but rather international sign language, but it's not comprehensive. Why should it there be one language for Deaf people? There's no universal spoken language. It would be imposing one language and culture upon others. Which SL would be the chosen one? There's so much wrong with that idea.
@@castleringur literally arguing the exact point i was making. to the og comment
the differences and intricacies in language is beautiful. it's practically an art. there's no reason to take that away from ppl who use sign language just bc u think it makes it too confusing for them.
and the word "universal" and "international" often go hand-in-hand in conversation, even tho they technically have different definitions. ur just arguing semantics on that point
Deaf people who use a signed language are used to people not knowing their language! They are much better at dealing with hearing people than the other way around. I've seen this in action in my travels. They don't find this confusing at all.