The weapons a Type 45 destroyer has in her arsenal to fend off attacks
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- Опубліковано 4 лют 2024
- On board one of the Royal Navy's Type 45 destroyers, it is the role of the Principal Warfare Officer to make key strategic decisions and take the ship into action.
The Daring class warships, like HMS Diamond who is currently deployed in the Red Sea where she has been shooting down Houthi drones, are purpose-built for anti-aircraft and anti-missile combat.
But they can also bombard targets on land and can even tackle lose-range surface threats.
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He forgot to mention the Aster missiles, the main defensive weapon on the ship!
I had to skim through again, just to make sure I hadn't missed it!! The whole rationale for the ship is around PAAMS and the Asters! If you're using the rest of those pop guns against anything other than pirates, you're in desperate straits!
Or did someone accidently edit it out? (And put an arrow in the wrong place!)
Serious question, how does one of the biggest military news companies confuse the placing of Harpoons with the Aster 15/30 VLS?
The single Type 45 not in dry dock undergoing an engine / powerplant refit is without an anti-surface ship missile system until Harpoon is replaced? No mention here of Sea Viper and the Aster 15/30 - do they think it's a secret that nobody knows about?
Its not using aster 15 anymore.
The engine mods are all finished .
i guess in this case they use "fend off attacks" in a weird, counterintuitive way of saying weapons to attack enemies? That may be why there's no sea viper/camm and the reason the NSMs are included even though they have no defensive value. The RN certainly does a fair bit of Sea Viper circlejerking so i doubt its because they think its secret
It's OK because they have a gym instead of munitions storage.... so instead of sea to land attacks they will be told to use the muscle power on the beach give them the old 1-2 😂😢 it's sad we used to own the sea... Now we barely have the numbers to man the ships
Three Type 45s are currently operational and one is undergoing sea trials, so technically two are in dock. Dauntless and Duncan have had the PIP upgrade, Daring is 95% done. Diamond is operational with the old package, Defender is being upgraded. Dragon's undergoing sea trials from the last (non-PIP) refit.
Might be a good idea to fit a couple of tomahawk tubes so it can hit land targets, or ships at a safe distance?
i might be wrong but at 0:26 you see a glimpse of what looks like 6 missile silos with my untrained eye. the ship certainly does have the capability to hit land or sea targets at distance. from what i could find the max range of missles on one of these ships is between 1.7km - 120km depending on the type of Aster missles are on board. those missles will soon also be upgraded too with much bigger range ballistic missiles.
NSM have 100 nm range against ships and land targets
Yep, a significant T41 VLS fit is required in addition to the anti-air/missile capabilities afforded by Sea Viper and Sea Ceptor
@@xNSHD "the ship certainly does have the capability to hit land or sea targets at distance.." No it doesn't (4.5 gun aside) the ASTER missiles are SAM only, the upgraded 1NT ASTER missiles going in when Sea Cepter is finally fitted (when?) don't have "much bigger range" - they are essentially ASTER 30s with modernised seekers and comms to make them more effective against ballistic missiles. NSM, when it eventually arrives, does have some ground attack capability but well within the reach of many shore launched ASMs.
0:34 “Naval Strike Missile” thats the Sea Viper Missile System made of Aster 15s and Aster 30s. Thats where they launch from. The Naval Strike Missiles sit to the left/behind that closer to the bridge. I dont know how you have misplaced the NSM with the Sea Viper and not even included the Sea Viper in the video.
Because NSM hasn't been fitted yet.
@@LondonSteveLee yeh so its saying it has NSM but not sea viper.
@@PoliceBodycamVideos Oh I see, yeah, the video isn't very good is it?
Naval gunfire support. Interesting. How can 6 destroyers cover 2 CSGs with 2 each, 2 LRGs with one each as well as patrolling.
New drinking game, a shot for everytime he says EHH, 1 min in and i f**ked 😂
It's a trait that seems to afflict a large proportion of officers in the British military.
Why is the arrow, when talking about Naval Strike Missile, pointing to the VLS? VLS is for Aster 15/30 missiles which are for air defence. NSM is an anti-ship missile. Also, a GMPG is not an M134 Minigun.
Somebody got confused here, no mention of sea venom missile system, and the arrow, which was meant to point at where the NSM or Harpoon should be pointed at the Sea venom VLS silos. 😂
Agree. A bit embarrassing as he is in charge of all the weapons yet appear to not know what they are. The video also showed minigun yet no mention.
@@angry7518They no longer have miniguns, it's old footage
@@DavidAJones11 so miniguns gone and replaced with the .50 cal.
@@angry7518the officer talking didn’t make the video, forces news messed the video up
Sea Viper, Sea Venom is a Wildcat helicopter mounted anti-ship missile
Best destroyer in the world
RN is a joke 😊
No 😊
LOL
Not by a mile..
No landstrike capability, no anti ballistic defense capability, out of date CWIS, to few VLS tubes.
@oudloek Well it's the mod fault but they have a newer asm system from Sweden with the type 26 if they built say 12 and the new destroyers 12 you have a major force of 24 ships the AA missile is good enough the raf need another 2 squadron of euro fighter along with f35 the army needs the latest ifv which is boxer along with a tracked cv 90 type vehicle plus more mbts we need to make use of the reserve army of 100 000 plus a 100 000 regulars that's a total of 3 quarter of a million men with better drill and training with the possibility of national service in future that's a sensible way to look at defence but they will use drones slaughterbots and high tech we have not seen there not stupid they have this planned out.👉🤡🇬🇧🇺🇲
Very cool.
The British Royal Navy has withdrawn the Type 45 destroyer HMS Diamond from operation near Yemen, citing “technical problems” suffered by the warship. The ship had been deployed to the region since December to contribute to U.S. led attacks on targets in Yemen under Operation Prosperity Guardian. The destroyer’s commander Peter Evans stated regarding recent operations “the situation in the region is fraught, and ships in the force are firing on a daily basis,” highlighting that after his ship’s withdrawal it would be replaced by another Type 45 Class, HMS Richmond. The withdrawal has fuelled speculation that the ship may have been damaged in combat with Yemeni Ansurullah Coalition forces, which claimed to have struck the warship after launching multiple missile and drone strikes. The Royal Navy has maintained that the ship suffered no hits, however. While speculation of a coverup would have significant precedent, the Type 45 also has a very long history of suffering from technical issues and is considered the most problematic destroyer class operational anywhere in the world.
Despite being considerably larger, Type 45s carry only half the firepower of modern U.S. and Japanese AEGIS destroyers - a fraction of the missiles of the latest Chinese Type 055 Class. Unlike modern ships in the U.S., Japan, South Korea, China and more recently even Russia, the Type 45 is unable perform multiple roles and has its small missile arsenal dedicated only to air defence. Competing designs such as the American Arleigh Burke Class and Japanese Maya Class can perform ballistic missile defence, anti-shipping, anti-submarine warfare and precision cruise missile strikes. The Type 45’s small arsenal of just 48 vertical launch cells can only deploy two missile types - the Aster 15 and Aster 30 - both of which can only be used in anti-air roles. Aster missiles are notable incapable of performing ballistic missile defence, which is a particularly serious shortcoming when considering that Ansuruallah Coalition forces have made significant deployments of anti-ship ballistic missiles. With Britain facing economic decline and two very serious economic crises in 2008 and 2020, it appears increasingly likely that the Type 45 will be the country’s last destroyer class as the affordability of a replacement remains highly questionable.
Source Military Watch Magazine
Diamond is still running the pre PIP PU package - she probably broke down. ASTER missiles aren't incapable of intercepting ballistic missiles - they are just not optimised for that role. The newer 1NT variants are essentially an ASTER 30 with a new seeker and comms capabilities. These will be fitted to Type 45 when she eventually gets her Sea Ceptors.
It wasn't a technical thing, it was to re supply and rest
@@cjjk9142 .... Repairs.
What about surface to air? What’s in the VLS tubes?
ASTER 15 and 30.
sick
Now all they need to do is stop firing 2 million pound missiles at cheap drones
what about jack/jill and a SA 80
Let’s see if it can stop brahmos , zircon or a dagger . You will soon find out the way grant is acting
Lazer defense too.
How is the hell did he forget the ships main armament that sits it's holes behind the gun and before harpoons that was removed. How the hell did he get on that ship lol
Another repeat except you got the PWO to provide the narration.
But they entirely missed out Sea Viper and confused the VLS tubes with the Harpoon/NSM launchers that the officer said weren’t even on the ship.
@@Oxley016 Harpoon isn't on the ship - they were given to Ukraine. Who knows when NSM will replace them? 2025? 2028?
Why remove the harpoon missiles when the replacement is not available yet.
Forgot to mention the barbells & dumbbells! Couple billion bucks for a ship & then don't arm it properly???
How would these weapons perform against small kamikaze sea drones (at night)?
I suspect it would undergo a rapid transformation into a submarine, like the Russian ships in the Baltic. If indeed its’new engines work and it manages to get to sea, oh and if there’s a sufficiently trained crew aboard. Our navy looks pretty poor on paper, and even worse in operational reality.
Nope it can track a tennis ball travelling at very high speed. I think the helicopter would be the best countermeasure.
Unless you have a ridiculous amount of them they wouldn’t get anywhere near. When laser defence systems get added though they will have no chance.
@@glynnwadeson5605a mini drone could not do harm to a ship this size, start a fire sure but you can't sink it with a grenade
Absolutely the best destroyer out there not only that also best trained navy fact
lol they all broke down and got towed back to port.
A Type 45 has not been towed back, although US new Constellation classes and freedom classes have all been towed back, and decommisioned.@@CJB-
Absolutely wrong
@@verdebusterAP what's better
@@alenkerr8533
Flight III Burke
A like for the thumbnail. Well done!
Yeah, nice zoom in on the guns and helo, good bit of extra detail!
I didn’t catch any mention of ASW capability. Venio non Videor
It is a surface warfare and anti-air component of a system of systems. MPA, dipping sonar, our subs, and our frigates should be there to cover that aspect.
@@DanielsPolitics1 But we don't have a large enough surface fleet to escort the Type 45s which get deployed singularly regularly. Putting the 45s to sea without any meaningful anti surface capability is criminal negligence. It's bad enough they lack modern point defence (Phalanx is hopeless) - no ASMs is the icing on the cake! When they dropped the 45 order from 12 to 8 then 6 ships they promised it was to fund the weapons systems properly. They lied.
Is this one possible of leaving port, or is it more expensive junk like the carriers?
It's sad when people won't read. Description of the video says "currently deployed in the Red Sea where she has been shooting down Houthi drones".
@@ghjgjihjgjyrdrgydsgr137but this is HMS Duncan in the video. It is HMS Diamond that has been, and still is, shooting down Houthi weapons in the Red Sea.
@@Oxley016 Duncan is operational. Three Type 45s are currently operational and one is undergoing sea trials, so technically two are in dock. Dauntless and Duncan have had the PIP upgrade, Daring is 95% done. Diamond is operational with the old package, Defender is being upgraded. Dragon's undergoing sea trials from the last (non-PIP) refit.
@@LondonSteveLee Ah, yes. It was Duncan that recently returned from deployment wasn't it. Thanks for the update on the others, the more that complete PIP the better!
Why u no show le missiles!!
I'd worry about asymmetric threats such as the sea-doo drones that Ukraine has used to devastate Russia's black sea fleet. Will the 2x30MM and the manned .50 cal stations be sufficient to stop a swarm at night? What of future iterations with a few km worth of air-independent-propulsion that can sit lower in the water or just beneath the surface?
It has two phalanx guns (not ideal for that kind of mission)
Need to get a good guided anti air shell in the 4.5 incher with some tungsten pellets like the millennium guns.
30 mm guns are not to bad for that type of thing but also needs the same shells and systems to have a air burst tungsten pellet type of round.
@@Ben-xf1ym Phalanx will run out of ammo in seconds with a 10 minute reload time - it's last century's solution to last century's problems.
At the very least they should be emergency fitted with multiple RADAR-guided versions of Starstreak - bolt-ons that can be delivered in weeks rather than years - and reinstate the RADAR guided air burst facilities defunded and removed in SDR2010 - although the long-term adoption of the US 5 incher by the UK has probably scuppered any chance of resurrecting that vital (and cheap!) project. Type 45s are sitting ducks.
“Our chief weapons are fear and surprise…”
~ (The Spanish Inquisition)
sudden diarrhea occurs from overeating dirty and poorly digestible foods 🙂
And an almost fanatical devotion to the pope.
We need a cheaper way to deal with drones. Aren't they using very expensive missiles to shoot down cheap RC planes with grenades sellotaped to them?
No, watch the part about close in weapons systems again and look for the part where the guns go shooty shooty.
@@ghjgjihjgjyrdrgydsgr137 Phalanx runs out of ammo very quickly - allowing anything to get that close is suicide.
😂🤦You really think the drones flying miles out to see are a toy drone, the iran drones for example cost russia $200,000 a pop
@@cjjk9142 Cost and worth are two different things. Look at the standard prop Shahed 136 drone, $50 worth of off-the-shelf electronics a cheap motor, mass produced body - $10K at the most to make with the most expensive component probably being the ~40ish KG of explosive - these have an range of over 800 miles. Some of these are being used by Houthi's. I'm sure fitting some kind of camera system with image recognition against ships would be a trivial affair in this day an age - something a couple of IT savvy kids could pull off in a month. A project that would have costed billions in research and technology 40 years ago. Your $50 mobile phone can recognise and track human faces - that was billion dollar military super-technology not too long ago.
Is it true that the 45 should have more missiles than it does, due to cost??
Yes. And various weapons systems that should have been fitted years ago - Sea Cepter is about 5 years behind.
@@LondonSteveLee what's the difference between 'Viper' and 'Ceptor'? Sorry about all the questions 😂 I'm not Russian or Chinese I swear
In the future instead of having troops repel down a line from the helo one might instead have them use jet packs.
Example Google Gravity Industries.
That way the drop can be made further out and the team can fly using their jet packs to the target area keeping the helo further out of harm's way.
Don't forget the harshly worded letter.
And a good "tut".
In other words they took the old missiles away before the new are ready and leave us with basically a war ship with small guns on. JOKE
And no one is going to attack anyway
@@ricko2301Great attitude that!
They took away the Anti Ship Missiles (HARPOON) they still have up to 48 ASTER 15 and 30 SAMs which are the primary weapon system of Type 45 which this hopeless video forget about!
No match against Chinese 055 🥶
Get rid of the gym and get the Tomahawk VLS in them.
It's all very well firing these 1-2 million pound missiles at cheap drones - what happens when we run low? ASTER 15 and 30 cannot be replenished at sea - we need other weapons systems on board and quick. As an emergency wartime fitment, the Royal Navy should be bolting on a ControlMaster200 radar guided variant of Starstreak. Cheap compact British missiles effective out to about four miles. This will give us interim guided point-defence until Sea Cepter finally makes an appearance covering the enormous hole left by ASTER 15's poor minimum engagement range. This modification could probably even be engineered at sea. It's also a shame Cameron's government cancelled the RADAR guided 4.5 inch gun smart airburst mode which could have been dealing with these drone threats cheaply with a replenishable-at-sea asset - crappy EOS system bolted on instead. Penny-pinching that has already cost us millions. The deficiencies in Type 45's capabilities and the holes in its defence are glaring.
"We've just had Harpoon removed" - well over a year ago (given to Ukraine) - still no NSM in sight - how many years away? NS30B is a relic should have been upgraded to M variants years ago - actually the best bet would be to fit modern RADAR guided 40mm and 57mm cannons to replace the DS30s and the 4.5 incher - we're in the drone era now, then 20mm Phalanx could be unbolted and pushed overboard - a waste of deck space.
For her size she is under-armed. She only has 48 anti-aircraft missiles and there is no ability to rearm these at sea. The 4.5 in gun is very long in the tooth, smaller than the 5in gun which US warships use and has no anti-air capability. Also if your going to bring an expensive Warship like a Type 45 close enough to a hostile shore to do naval gunnery support you're doing something appallingly wrong since most Land artillery systems outrange you by about 50%. Her anti-ship capability is 3rd rate. There are 4 harpoon kits for 6 ships. The harpoon is an aged missile which until recently was due to be retired and not replaced for about a decade. Type 45's also do not carry anti-submarine torpedoes. She relies on her helicopter to sink submarines. Lets just hope that it remains serviceable and that the weather doesn't prevent it from flying. In short she is potentially a great ship but is largely a paper tiger due to extremely useless politicians. The graphic for the location of the Naval Strike Missile appears to be incorrect. I would guess they are going to be fitted behind the Missile box area which is where Harpoon is currently fitted.
In July 2021, it was announced that the destroyers' anti-air armament will be enhanced with the addition of a 24-cell silo for Sea Ceptor surface-to-air missiles.[81] These were reported as likely to be in lieu of Aster 15 missiles, permitting the 48 Sylver A50 launch cells to be entirely devoted to carrying Aster 30. It was also announced that Eurosam will provide a refresh of the Aster 30 missile systems that are currently in use. All six ships are likely to be upgraded from 2026 to 2032.[82]
@@kizzyp2735 The UK really should have developed their own missiles instead of relying on the French/Italians to design and build them. MBDA is making a lot of money on building each Aster missile with the UK not getting any of the work.
@@kizzyp2735 I know. They’re also upgrading Sea Viper to have some sort of ABM capability. However that’s tomorrow and not where we are today. A 48 missile silo is light for a ship of that size. It’s substantially less than what the Americans or Chinese employ.
Reload VLS at sea is something that even the US cant do
The principal weakness of the Type-45 is its Sylver VLS. While the US MK-41 is designed to be completely universal , the Sylver is limited MICA. Crotale , Aster for air defense
Only the A-70 model can carry the MdCN for land attack
That limited capability is biting the RN in the ass but apparently, the RN still hasnt learned its lesson by its purchase of the Naval Strike Missile
While the Harpoon they used were old, the latest model of Harpoon has much longer range as well land attack capability
If the UK was smart .they would have brought the LRASM instead
The LRASM can be used on the F-35 and P-8 in addition to RN ships
On ships, its VLS capable as well as the same topside launcher as the Harpoon and NSM. The LRASM also has land attack capability as well
@@verdebusterAP to be fair the US can reload the mk41 vls at sea and used to do it for decades. They just decided that it was not really feasible for the amount of VLS you lose with the crane and the difficulty of doing it etc. If there was a major war with China that lasted any length of time we would probably see if come back at some point.
mmm...better hope they don't fall out with HMS Victory....🤣
But, can match with 052D China 👍
The Chinese ships have far more weapons and variety thereof which is very important to give yourself a chance against all threats, the only saving grace is they are Chinese (and mostly based on ex Soviet junk) so the effectiveness of the weapons will probably be poorer than spec.
@@LondonSteveLee Now we can all see that the soviet junk what did to European Junks in Ukraine 🤣🤣 Fact 🤣. + The chinese are marking it in 20s era with most high stealth technology whis is concerning the west very deeply & we can see that in here in Ashian part+MiddleEast+ Indian Ocean + Chinese Sea parts 😂.
@@IrfanKhanVlogs44 The Chinese copy everything - nothing original there at all, they only progress anywhere because western universities are packed with Chinese spies. The last Chinese invention was about 500 year ago! (An exaggeration of course but you get the point) the Russians have lost six warships to a country that doesn't even have a Navy - they've lost around 2,000 tanks. The combat performance of Russian systems has been disastrous.
H is pronounced “aitch” Mr Mason ……………. Should’ve gone to Sandhurst?
Yet the next class of frigates will only have 57mm guns - so forget naval gun fire support to troops ashore or the ability to engage small surface craft at a great range,
With guided ammunition (some in commission in Italy on the 76mm oto in the strales system, madfires looks promising for 57mm), the 57mm will be a better ciws than phalanx and its entirely possible that something similar to the miniturised vulcano round on the 76mm will allow the 57mm to reach out 20km+ (76mm vulcano range 27km, original 76mm range 16km)
Which will benefit from the US's smart ammo programme. 57mm will be far more effective against modern threats than the 4.5 incher.
✌️✨✨✨
What no air defence missels
It does have Surface to Air Missiles, 48 in total missiles of long range Aster 30 and short range Aster 15 missiles which are both anti air and anti missile. This is the Type 45's main armament and the reason the ship was built, for fleet defence yet this video completely neglected them making the type 45 seem no better armed than an Iranian attack craft at some points.
After the Naval Strike Missiles are fitted in canisters behind the Vertical Launch System (VLS) - the video incorrectly showed the NSMs going into the VLS when they won't - the Type 45 will be fitted with 24 short range sea ceptor missiles (already in use on the Type 23s) to add more short range defence missiles than the Aster 15s. This can mean the 48 slot VLS can be fitted with all 48 long range Aster 30 missiles allowing the Type 45 to do more long range air defence and more air defence against more dangerous threats whilst keeping the short range backup missiles of which the sea ceptor will provide more of than the Number of Aster 15s there were origionally and crucially they are much much cheaper and still very effective at their job.
This upgrade combined with the NSMs will likely really make it a more potent ship in the world stage, the sooner the Royal Navy do this upgrade the better.
Hope this helps.
A poorly designed ship that lacks sufficient firepower to repel swarm attacks. They need to go back to the drawing board and relearn the lessons of World War II when ships were crammed with weapons to fight off swarms of aircraft. This ship will do fine if defending against one or two attackers, but is nothing but an easy target for a swarm attack.
No current similar destroyer would be able to deal with a swarm attack either. True, Type 45 is particularly bad in this are - but then some flight IIA Arleigh Burkes only have one Phalanx! I don't think any Destroyer out there would survive a determined swarm attack.
That was my point. They need to design new ships with multiple weapons stations similar to World War II vessels.
I dont know why countries that lack land attack capabilities like the majority of European navies are just because of true incompetence, the French develop the Scalp/naval (MDCN) why Britain dont joint the French for the Storm Shadow TLAM. Why they choose not to joint develop and manufecter their stockpiles in the UK, ridicolous. And why dont adopt one of the best anti ship and land attack missile in service the TESEO EVO from MBDA with a 360km range it is a great weapon for tactical strikes in high value targets like the RBS 15 MK3 Gungnir another missile with land attack capability and a decent warhead why dont adopt?! They build this huge ships that they call frigates but is more a destroyer and have no capabilities and we need in Europe a new support cannon in the 140mm to 155mm even a 166mm for coastal support. Europe really needs to up their game
Just as well T45 at least has SOME defensive weapons, albeit far too few for an 8,000+ tonne DD, because the ships still have ZERO offensive capabilities. Will our London political and Civil Service vermin NEVER stop playing fast and loose with RN crews lives??
Indeed, the promise behind dropping from 12 to 8 then 6 hulls was to fund equipping them properly - as usual the politicians lied.
What gender does this ship identify as?
Great destroyer.
But only six of them is a joke.
The RN is a joke. Putler is having a good larf.
I'm surprised you're still producing videos when the aircraft carriers are not fit for purpose and most submarines unavailable.
Not enough personnel.
It's downright dangerous and embarrassing.
HMS Queen Elizabeth is broken again. British engineering is amateur; fact.
we made the harrier
@@ScratchyYard Yes and? Is that it? An aircraft now nearly 60 years old. Nothing works in the British armed forces today. Fact.
@@mikewinston8709You are a troll. Fact.
communist bot spotted, opinion rejected
So is Ford broken all the time.
These are white elephants, destroyers that can’t destroy. They have no offensive missiles so they can’t attack the houthis who are attacking them. They are firing missiles that cost tens of thousands each time against drones that cost a few hundred. These ships in the Red Sea are relying on 4 typhoon fast jets in Cyprus flying 3000 Mile round trips to bomb targets in Yemen. Our politicians penny pinched so much these ships can do one thing - theatre air defence and even that capability is limited.
They have zero anti ballistic missile defence. The anti missile missiles the ship carries can not shoot down ballistic or hypersonic missiles. So it is very vulnerable -These are the very missile threat they will face against China or Russia.
They have 48 aster anti air missiles and a further 25 other less effective air defence missiles and the ship can’t be reloaded at sea 😂 so once it’s fired 73 air defence missiles and exhausted its 35 seconds of CIWS ammo it’s a sitting duck.
It should have 96 anti ballistic anti hypersonic capable missiles and at least 50 anti ship and land attack missiles.
We have six of these in total - 3 available at any one time. And those three air defence destroyers are suppose to protect the fleet, provide theatre sir defence for the carrier strike group, keep open the shipping and trade routes, fight pirates, provide anti narcotics presence in the Caribbean, deter the Argentinians from invading the Falklands and protect the nuclear deterrent from airborne threats. You do not need to be an admiral to conclude with only three available destroyers the Royal Navy simply can’t do what needs to be done. Tragic shame.
Tens of thousands? ASTER 15 and ASTER 30 cost well over a million pounds each!
Not the role of a destroyer type 45, it's literally air defence. The drone logic is nonsense now, new info shows the iran drones are $200,000 a pop
This video is terrible and does not know what its talking about, Forces News you usually get these things right, but cant even get our own ships right?