It's not the long-distance flights that are taking a beating, it's the interisland ones. Hawaiian can just retire their 717s and exit that market completely, and focus more on Asia and Australia/NZ for feed.
Well, the government has been focusing on blocking mergers even where it means both companies go bankrupt so I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Hawaiian needs the merger with Alaska way more than Alaska does
It's called capitalism. I live on Oahu. We love Hawaiian and Southwest. After Aloha Airlines shutdown inter island prices sky rocketed. It was cheaper to fly to Las Vegas than to Big Island. Thank you Southwest for keeping it real here. Thank you Hawaiian Airlines for your great service.
Yes and Capitalism says if you can be the only one that's the best way to do it.They're trying to drive Hawaiian out of business so they can raise the rate and make all that lost revenue back. There's no healthy competition here. just a change of management on the monopoly
When Hawaiian was a monopoly I took a trip to Japan, I'm from Maui and the flight from Maui to Oahu was just as expensive as a flight from HNL to Osaka. Although I will always ride with Hawaiian, the competition with Southwest is a godsend
Southwest is a great airline, while the airline doesn’t fly to every Hawaiian island, like Molokai, the airline is planning on expanding services to the islands to the mainland. This will mainly happen with the 737 Max 7, which has fewer seats than the Max 8 and especially with the new cabin layout. The Max 7 will also have a longer range, like flights between DEN and deeper in the Mainland. This will not only compete with Hawaiian but also United.
Loving the editing and everything here. Just one minor thing, Southwest doesn’t serve Molokai or Lanai directly as the runways are far too short for the 737. 2:09 Also, I’m in awe at how well you maintain audio consistency between all these locations. Very well done.
technically not too short :P with a short field package, Brazilian operators can fly 737-800's in and out of Santos Dumomt which has even shorter runways.
Hawaiian use to fly the DC-9/717 to Molokai and Lanai. The landing/take off in Lanai was a trip. Will we stop before the end of the runway and will we get airborne. It was a thrill ride.
When visiting friends on Maui a couple years ago, they were so happy SWA was making flights cheap. I warned them that they don’t want to lose HAL, which could be a consequence. That sobered them up…
A Hawaiian-Alaskan merger makes sense.. Two regional players with very specific markets all tied together via hubs in Los Angeles and Seattle as well as Anchorage and Honolulu. I hope it gets approved. Here in Canada? WestJet is also having the same mid-market issues and is also losing money last time I checked. Edmonton-based Flair as problematic as it is has taken all the ULCC adjacent business away so they aren't even cheap anymore. Just a low-rent Air Canada clone which isn't a good look since AC itself it thoroughly mid at best... And always hours late...
Like other airlines, Southwest earn just under 10% of it's revenue from cargo 'underneath'. The freight revenue on the Hawaii routes needs to be considered before concluding that they are losing money solely based on load factor and average ticket price.
That's incorrect for Southwest. Southwest freight revenue was 0.6% of revenue last year, about $175mil. It's likely high margin but it's nowhere near the importance it would be if it were 10% of revenue.
Correct - for Southwest’s Hawaii flights, because of the way Southwest does both flight planning and weight and balance calculation, both using older technology although Southwest will be moving to AveoBook in September, this means Southwest cannot carry as much cargo as does UA on the routes to Hawaii. When you look at Hawaii you have to look at not just WN, HA, but also UA who has more seats in the market, and carries the most cargo with those 777’s - in Hawaii really UA sets the cargo prices. Also consider if the HA/AS never goes through then nothing stops UA from entering the inter-island market as their codeshare with HA would cease.
Important note: prior to Southwest's arrival, the average interisland fare was just under $70. Southwest began trying to buy market share by starting with $29 one way fares and the fares are hovering around $45 right now. Both airlines are hemorrhaging money as a result, more so at Southwest, but they have deeper pockets to back them up. Alaska, however, has learned how to beat Southwest and has deep pockets so they can hang in a firefight with them and it's only a matter of time before Southwest leaves the interisland game since Alaska knows it must defend that market at all costs and they'll make it even bloodier for Southwest to stay.
This sounds like what Mokulele was doing in the 2000s, which eventually drove Aloha Airlines out of business using smaller planes. At the time, Aloha was using Boeing 737-200s and Hawaiian was replacing its DC-9-30s with Boeing 717s (which are approximately the same size). Hawaiian operates routes like HNL-OGG more than 20 times daily. Southwest was trying to take away Hawaiian’s bread and butter services but took a financial bath. Also, Southwest only announced recently that it would do trans-con red-eyes. Since it wouldn’t do Hawaii to California red-eyes, that meant a lot of time on the ground in Hawaii, meaning inter-island flights.
This is a great video but it did ignore the other advantage Hawaiian has. (Yes they’re loosing money) Hawaiian is the only interisland codeshare. So if you fly delta to Honolulu and want to go to Lihue, you’d connect on Hawaiian. Southwest doesn’t do codeshares
Yes but 1) WN is slowly in the process of developing codeshare 2) If HA/AS merge then the code share with UA and DL would cease 3) nothing prevents UA, who is the the biggest carrier to Hawaii, from developing their own inter-island network.
@@cxa340 UA has been in the market here as long as anybody. If they didn’t already know what SWA is learning, yeah, they could do interisland. They are thrilled watching SWA burn money on this problem.
Not only that, southworst does not have Interline Agreements with the other airlines. This not only means that if one has to transfer between another air carrier such as Delta or United, luggage will not be transferred between them and southworst in the connecting city. The lack of Interline Agreements also means that the other airlines will not accept a southworst ticket for travel on their airline should a need arise (for example, years ago my flight to Seattle had to be cancelled due to mechanical difficulties, United just made arrangements for the next closest scheduled flight on Alaska on my originally purchased airline ticket.)
I love your channel, and I highly encourage you to make and upload more videos. You've already done a great job creating the ones you have uploaded, and this channel will easily grow given more content and some regularity with uploads, even a single video per month would be excellent at this stage. Thank you for the effort you've put into this, and I look forward to seeing your channel grow :) Take care.
Last time I went to Hawaii in 2007, interisland fares on Hawaiian airlines were a fraction of what they are now. Of course, Aloha Airlines was still in business at the time, so it’s nice to see someone trying to break up Hawaiians monopoly on interisland.
Competition is healthy. Unhealthy competition, such as flooding the market with loss-leader fares you cannot possibly break even on in an attempt to get your competitor to leave the market, is not. And that's what Southwest is doing, and why both are bleeding - although Southwest is bleeding far more heavily.
@2:54 this is an example of when you'd want to use mean instead of median, since you're trying to calculate the total revenue per flight which only works with mean.
I was a huge Southwest fan, going back to my youth in the '70s. But this is definitely not the same Southwest Airlines that I knew and loved. You have to wonder, would have Herb approved of not only the flights to and from the mainland but also the Inter-Island flights. Honestly, I don't believe that he would. Going up against a beloved carrier like Hawaiian, would have been a gamble that he might not have taken. Honestly, I am pulling for Hawaiian (tough for a Texan to say). Southwest lost is soul and those little things that made it special when Herb passed, now it is becoming just another airline
I flew swa from Maui to Phoenix a couple years ago. NEVER again. The 737 is too small, cramped, uncomfortable for a flight that long. Flew American on the 787 after that. Will only fly an airline that offers larger aircraft on the route.
If you think 6-7 hours on a Southwest 737 is too rough for you, then I suggest you don't venture to some of the far corners of the globe. You will be sobbing like a child begging for the comfort of that Southwest 737 when compared to true rough travel accommodations that some parts of the world throw at you.
The funny part about this comment is, the seat on their 787 are just as cramped at the 737. Sure, the plane is bigger, but the space at your seat isn’t…
No frills? Free drinks and snacks, no charge for checked bags, hundreds of free movies, shows, music and games, more legroom than anyone else in coach, etc? Spirit, frontier, Allegiant, Avelo, are no frills.
The seat selection coming and wifi is making me finally consider them as my budget carrier. I’ve been flying quite a bit with one of the LCCs since the legacies are exorbitant
@@johnfitzgerald1879 by a mile would also be a stretch even if that were true which it is not JetBlue ranges from 32.3” of seat pitch to 38” and with they are the same at 17.8” and JetBlue even has some wider seats at over 18”.
How is "price fixing" not illegal? If SWA succeeds, then no entity that can stop SWA from raising prices equal to or greater than what HAL is charging. (BTW, pineapple drinks typically use rum. Hawaii has several in-state rum distilleries)
Think you might mean predatory pricing instead of price fixing in this case. Which is illegal but extremely difficult to prove. So a court decision would take forever. If you're the defense of Southwest you'd raise arguments like... 1. The market could change, no one is stopping new entrants 2. How can you be sure that Southwest will raise prices above what Hawaiian had them if they succeed? 3. What definition/scope of "cost" are we using to prove that Southwest is/was pricing it's flights beneath it's operating cost? And then courts are often reluctant to punish behavior that seems to benefit consumers. Uber and Wal-Mart are some other examples of companies who've been accused of predatory pricing. Yet consumers, for the most part, love their services.
Agree. Larger corporations shouldn’t be able bankrupt smaller corporations by purposely losing money. I’m all for capitalism, but they are charging higher mainland fares to subsidize their anticompetitive behavior with the intention of putting Hawaiian out of business and charging sky-high prices when they go out-of-business.
@@iseewoodit’s how airlines have worked since day zero and they continue their pissing matches to get market share. They’ve gotten much more rational in not getting in too many pissing matches, but they get in them nevertheless.
I love SWA for interisland. Bigger planes and free bags for about $90.00. But for getting to Hawaii, I won't take a 737. They've been flying interisland since serving Hawaii.
Great video! What isn’t mentioned, though, is where Southwest Chief Operating Officer Andrew Watterson came from… any guesses? That’s right, Hawaiian Airlines. He was once the HAL Vice President of Planning and Revenue Management… at a time when HAL was the controlling carrier of the Interisland market (post-Aloha Airlines shutdown). He literally controlled the route pricing for HAL.
South West fucked themselves and Hawaiian. Hawaiian often ran at a loss since Hawaii has such high jet fuel cost. Only ones profitable are flying to Asia. tldr even Monopoly in Hawaii run nearly at loss.
United Airlines brings the most amount of passengers from the Mainland to Hawaii. They outdo SWA, Alaska, and Hawaiian. Not number of flights, but passengers. Mostly large 777 aircraft in use is the reason. No inter island flights.
It's cheaper because they're actively losing money being there and once they're the only game left those prices are going way the hell up like when Aloha Air closed. They are on time because they literally have nowhere else to be.
Back in 2021, we flew SWA from Oakland to Maui and it was an uncomfortable 5 1/2 hours -- we did fly free round trip, which is why we did it (SWA credit card points) -- I would prefer a wide-body plane as you can upgrade and get better comfort for that flight. I even had a friend fly Hawaiian 1st class from Orlando to HNL non-stop and it was long, but amazing! That route has since been canceled by HA.
That’s not exactly how aircraft operating costs work. A lot of airlines make money through upgrades, premium sales, and cargo. So they don’t necessarily need to fill an aircraft at a certain ticket price.
One thing you did not mention is the fact these inter island routes are very hard on the Southwest 737 Max fleet. They and the equivalent Airbus planes are not good for short routes with quick turnarounds. Their engines need time to cool down which the fleet of Hawaiians B-717 don't. When Aloha was in business they tried using more advanced 737 aircraft on these routes, but again the short turnarounds was too hard on the engines so they flew their older 737-200 planes till the end. To this day these old planes are still flying cargo between the islands. The B-717 is the perfect plane for this operation, but is getting a little long in the tooth. Hawaiian needs to make some fleet decisions in the next couple years!
You're right, it is something I had considered but didn't make it in. They're running 3-4 of these per day, climbing the plane from 0-15k feet every few hours in the Hawaiian heat and salty air. Depreciation and operating costs on these routes is likely at the high end of all SW routes. Not a 737 expert but it appears to me Southwest is trying to shoehorn their fleet into these routes these planes probably shouldn't be in.
Or maybe we just need to appreciate what we have and accept the limitations that Hawaii has. Most people move here to escape from something. If where they are from is paradise then they wouldn't have moved. But it's crazy how people want to turn Hawaii into what they had on the mainland. If it was great then why move. If you're from Hawaii and think the grass is greener or your lacking things. Maybe move to the mainland for a few years and be reminded of how special Hawaii was. I grew up in Hawaii when you could have unique life experiences that you couldn't find on the mainland.
Environmental lawsuits...backed by lobbyists from the airline industry. Hawaii takes in cruise ships that come from all over the Pacific. So spare the ecological debate. The super ferry was meant to stay in Hawaii.
Hawaiian vs. Southwest is a no-brainer. Hawaiian all the way. Better product from CA to HI. I have flown SW three times and every time there was an issue. I may be in the minority on that because everyone seems to love them, but this is one passenger who will never fly them again. And compared to Hawaiian?? Not even close!
We're small enough in the islands that electric inter-island flights are feasible. Mokulele is trying kinda with their Seaglider thing, but they've had a pretty bad reputation for reliability. If someone can do that well they'd likely take over the inter-island market.
Don’t be naive all this hype comes from these democrats politicians I work for the major airlines for well over 35 plus years and electric motors no matter what kind require batteries which are too heavy and hazardous and does not have the capacity and capability to power electric motors efficiently and safely ,they tried this back in the 70’s and it was a total failure but yes technology has improved but it will take another 25-35 years of development, look at it this way electric cars are failing and dealership can’t even give these cars away ,they have maybe 200-300 miles of range depending on weight temperature and other conditions especially cold temperatures for these cars to operate to get maximum range and I don’t need to mention infrastructure problems .Maybe I am negative but that is my opinion working on gas turbine engines for well over 35 plus years and studying electric motors and battery technology for the past 7 years,if you don’t believe me go to any dealership on the mainland where EV’s are sold and do your research
You need to do better research. Hawaiian was not the exclusive interisland carrier for “decades”. Aloha airlines which operated 737s competed with Hawaiian for about 60 years until it went bankrupt in 2008. Hawaiian since then until SWA came to Hawaii monopolized the interisland market.
Pardon? Almost all the Hawaii outbound flights leave at night and red eye to the mainland - this is one of the Achilles heal for WN as they do not operate red eye flights currently and do not have the technology to do so. For the other carriers the red eye evening departure run an almost 100% load factor
@@cxa340 I lived in Hawaii for 12 years from the mid '80's to '97 and I traveled a lot during that time. The red eye outbound was my favorite and nearly empty United 747 were the best. I'd take the center 4 seats, fold up the arm rests and lay down to sleep. Have things changed since then?
@@mikeh2520 You mean have things changed in the 27 years since? You are seriously asking that question? I spent the last 2 years commuting between Hawaii and Texas every week - not sure if you realize but UA doesn’t even fly the 747 anymore. Yes, the red eye flights have the highest load factor and they have for decades on flights from HNL
@@cxa340 People don't want to board an airplane at 10:00 PM. I can't imagine that actually changed. Airlines need that jet back on the mainland asap for the next trip. I miss the 747s and the L1011 was a favorite as well. Western Airlines was my all time favorite back in the day.
@@mikeh2520 If you haven’t actually flown to Hawaii anytime this century not sure your opinion matters much compared to this of us who have flown to Hawaii this month. Passengers prefer the red eye flights out of Honolulu, because they do not want to waste an entire day and and half returning back to the Midwest, South, or East coast. By leaving at 5pm-10pm in Hawaii passengers have the option to be home the next morning.
Thank you Southwest!!! They forced Hawaiian to drop prices. Hawaiian had a monopoly basically and were gouging prices bad. I love Hawaiian but they were ridiculously expensive.
Did you watch the whole video? He explains that if southwest succeeds in getting rid of Hawaiian. They will most certainly raise the price again, this time with no competition
Great analysis, thanks. Another important point: A ~180 seat 737 is TOTALLY the wrong plane for those inter-island routes. Way too big. They need 30-40 seaters to do it right.
Would love to go to Hawaii ~ but hotel costs are so high. I do feel more of "the lower classes" would visit if hotels were cheaper. Modern pricing assumes we are all millionaires from the Covid spending ~~! Las Vegas has gotten that way too ~ way too expensive for the "Chattering masses" ~
Local here. I hope SWA and HA stay flying interisland cuz when it was just HA, it was so expensive, once another airline, prices automatically dropped.
SWA deserves what it gets for their massive corporate Texas HQ greed. Flying a single aisle BOEING 737 to Hawai'i, on budget cattle carrier, SWA, for 5 hours is highly uncomfortable bordering on tortuous. SWA also brings the worst budget travellers to Hawai'i. SWA passengers nickel and dime their way through the islands, stressing the infrastructure and taking more then they contribute to Hawai'i. The SWA traveller cheapens the island paradise.
Don’t forget to mention that passengers use their miles to book a Hawaii vacation. Most of my friends on Southwest praised Southwest for starting to fly to Hawaii so they can use their Rapid Rewards Miles on a Hawaii trip. That’s more money lost that’s not accounted for. United uses high-density 777 aircraft because of that.
So you want Hawaiian Airlines to have no competition? Your video suggests there isn't room for more than one airline in a market which you said is huge. Are you including the highly profitable freight going back and forth? I have heard the customers are gravy on top of cargo.
I don’t think Hawaii is the only reason Southwest is losing money.. they’re getting ready to be that many of their planes with a “business section” adapt assigned seating they’re trying to make several changes across the board
@@santoshNarayana I pay for my flight way before check in when I make the reservation. It is probably because I have been flying for decades and still have that perspective, but checking in to me tells the airline I am here for the reservation and seat I paid for. Not, I am going to be there, but am here.
Hawaiian Airlines is top notch. I fly from SEA to OGG at least once a year. When you’re in the air 5+ hours the quality of service really matters. We’ve tried many different airlines. HA is far ahead of the game for flights to and from Maui. The HA/AK merge would be awesome for the northwest region Hawaii lovers.
Great video. However, your calcs don't include freight revenue. Many carriers flying to Hawaii make their profit from freight, as their flights are typically full of reward passengers. *received this info from the former American Airlines freight manager in Maui.🤙🏽
The DOJ and Alaska have agreed to extend the deadline for the antitrust division's review to August 15th. That tells me they're trying to find a way to get to "yes" and are working on what asks, if any, they'll have of Alaska to allow the acquisition to go through. Once cleared, Alaska will have 72 hours to cut the check for $1.9B to Hawaiian's shareholders, and they have the cash on hand. Then it'll be 12-18 months to get a single operating certificate and it all becomes Alaska Airlines, although the existing Hawaiian flying will still use the Hawaiian brand.
FYI, the picture you showed of “the only aircraft variant they fly to the islands” isn’t a picture of a MAX 8. Also, you show that they fly to Lanai which they don’t.
That GDP stat is misleading. Should Hawaii go under and be replaced by SWA, the new airline would replace virtually all of that economic benefit instead. They would be bringing the tourists in and employing Hawaiin residents. Currently the two operating is likely bringing more tourists to the island than the single airline did in the past with lower fares.
SWA and HAL are hardly the only ways visitors get to Hawaii. AA, AS, DL, and UA all carry lots of people between the mainland and HI. (Run the numbers on how many seats UA flies to the islands each month. You might be surprised.) I don't think anybody who lives here would rather see a future with SWA as the monopoly carrier interisland instead of HAL or would consider these outcomes of equal economic benefit here in Hawaii. How many crew is SWA basing in the islands? How much maintenance are they doing here? Etc.
@@outby50 I'm sure the people in Hawaii would prefer to see HAL win out. I agree all those airlines provide service albeit at a higher fare for the most part. Many do so because of loyalty programs often driven by members who are long time business flyers. They have money and will come regardless of fare. At the end of the day, SWA will likely bring people who are drawn by cheaper fares and likely actually drive up GDP at least in the measure that is being touted. HAL maintenance bases already include Seattle and Los Angeles. SWA will obviously have to have maintenance in Hawaii, long ferry flight back to the US. Jobs will be a wash and airlines pay crappy money unless maybe you are a pilot. Might even increase, lot's of overnight hotels for aircrews and their spending versus HAL crews. Would hate to see the end of HAL for nostalgia reasons but sometimes progress causes pain.
Any day now. It was supposed to be by August 5th, but actually yesterday they reach an extension agreement to push it til August 15th. And yes, it's the DoJ deciding if they're going to sue to stop the merger.
Everything about hawaiiannairlines sucks. Their seats are hard as a rock. Customer service aweful. Ticket prices are expensive. They used to be ok. Not now. I’m glad there is competition.
Good eye. Moved from 737 to 737 Max 8 for better accuracy late in the editing process and didn't update the plane. For anyone wondering, it's the only plane they fly on the HA routes.
Two weeks ago, I was shopping for tickets from Sacramento to Kauai, via Honolulu. I assumed that Southwest would be cheaper than Hawaiian; however, Hawaiian was over $700 cheaper per round trip ticket, compared to Hawaiian. After baggage charges and some modest seat upgrades, from Hawaiian, I still saved approx. $550 per round trip price. Who would'da thunk?
Did you factor in the Cargo? There is always cargo aboard these flights as well as passengers and luggage, in the late 80's - 90's Delta flew nearly empty md-11 and 767 direct from HNL to ATL, they could do this because the cargo of Pineapples and Orchids paid for the flight.... Passengers were a bonus...
We had to fly Southwest last year after a mixup with our original reservations with Hawaiian. It was cramped and terrible. Hawaiian is just soooooooo much better in every way.
Congrats Southwest, not only did they hand over Hawaiian’s Market share to Alaska, but their bet failed and a Hedge fund is in the process of taking them over.
It’s very hard to definitively prove predatory pricing. You could make the accusation and bring a case but it would be a very long process with a highly uncertain outcome. In large part because the judgment rests on forecasting… markets can change quickly, would they absolutely become the only provider to the market *and* increase prices? What accounting method are we using to determine SWs costs for these routes?… These are just some of the ways a defense team would present Southwests case
It feels a bit like when Bombardier sold their planes for a loss, and then Boeing sued. I’m guessing it’s because it’s domestic competition that it’s not so much an issue for the US government?
Where was this guy when Hawaiian and Aloha couldn't figure out how to survive in a market that only supports one airline. Where was he when the state trade commission denied a merger between Hawaiian and Aloha. Where was he when Mesa realized there were two clueless bankrupt airlines in the middle of the Pacific sitting on a goldmine. Where was he when Mesa took a look at both airlines, decided to buy Aloha, who then was owned buy a clueless investment group led by former NFL player Willy Gault, got turned down and then decided to start their own airlines called Go, charge ridiculously low prices and financially squeeze out the weak. Where was he when Hawaiian execs testified at a state hearing that a flight from Oahu to Hilo, 2/3 filled, can make a profit at $54 a ticket? Where was he when Mesa declared they had a war chest that allowed them to charge $2 tickets for three years. They asked Aloha how long can they survive at $2 tickets. Where was he when Willy Gault tried to sell Aloha to Mesa and Mesa luaghed. Where was he when Willy and his crew pulled out three months in advance, then locked up and closed shop without notice. Where was he when Mesa decided to pull out of Hawaii because they didn't expect the ‘08 world market to last well into ‘10. Where was he when Hawaiian became the only player in the market by default and implemented the very diabolical plan Mesa wanted to do- rape and pillage a subservient and clueless local market. Where was he when Hawaiian jacked inter-island flights from $39 to $150 one way and a $15 baggage fee per bag (which btw he fails to mention that’s the second most profitable revenue after credit cards for all airlines) Where was he when Hawaiian became insanely profitable and began to expand their market worldwide. Why isn’t he talking about how Hawaiian can’t manage their airline against direct competition. Why isn’t he talking about how Hawaiian investors are desperately selling their holdings to Alaska Airlines because they are clueless to function with direct competition.
I have no idea so I wont doubt, and you seem like you know your info on flight providers in Hawaii... But this video is on Southwest and their new corporate strategy, not about Hawaiian airlines and how it got to be in the position its in today. Even if UA-cam existed then, or even if 60 minutes had done a special on it, nothing much public coud have done would have changed the outcome of Hawaiian and Aloha
I hope Hawaiian doesn't get forced out. I'd much rather continue flying a Hawaiian 787 from the mainland than an SWA 737.
It's not the long-distance flights that are taking a beating, it's the interisland ones. Hawaiian can just retire their 717s and exit that market completely, and focus more on Asia and Australia/NZ for feed.
@@MirzaAhmed89you want HAWAIIAN to stop serving Hawaii?
Well, the government has been focusing on blocking mergers even where it means both companies go bankrupt so I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Hawaiian needs the merger with Alaska way more than Alaska does
Except Hawaiian mostly runs a 321’s to and from the mainland.
@@markcorneliuslauWhat are you talking about? Anybody who knew anything knew JB and Spirit had no chance from the start.
It's called capitalism. I live on Oahu. We love Hawaiian and Southwest. After Aloha Airlines shutdown inter island prices sky rocketed. It was cheaper to fly to Las Vegas than to Big Island. Thank you Southwest for keeping it real here. Thank you Hawaiian Airlines for your great service.
Yes and Capitalism says if you can be the only one that's the best way to do it.They're trying to drive Hawaiian out of business so they can raise the rate and make all that lost revenue back. There's no healthy competition here. just a change of management on the monopoly
@@CitrakiteGo live in Cuba or Venezuela and see how that communism/ socialism works for ya?
@@JS-gt5bh Random string of letters, how about you get a real name?
When Hawaiian was a monopoly I took a trip to Japan, I'm from Maui and the flight from Maui to Oahu was just as expensive as a flight from HNL to Osaka. Although I will always ride with Hawaiian, the competition with Southwest is a godsend
I knew some of the baggage handlers and grounds crew FOR ALOHA on Oahu.
WHAT A BUNCH OF A$$HOLES
It’s been great for the consumer until Hawaiian goes bankrupt and then southwest doubles the ticket price as the sole monopoly.
I’d love to see a deeper dive into what the Alaska/Hawaii merger would do for Alaska Airlines
Worth noting that these Hawaii routes tie up 50 of Southwest's planes every day. 817 planes in their fleet, that's a little over 6%.
Southwest is a great airline, while the airline doesn’t fly to every Hawaiian island, like Molokai, the airline is planning on expanding services to the islands to the mainland. This will mainly happen with the 737 Max 7, which has fewer seats than the Max 8 and especially with the new cabin layout. The Max 7 will also have a longer range, like flights between DEN and deeper in the Mainland. This will not only compete with Hawaiian but also United.
They have too many interisland flights to keep this up.
@@countryfucius they will once more aircraft join the fleet.
@@dylanshaffer2184 They don't need more. The flights I've been on aren't even half full.
@@countryfucius I’m talking about to the mainland not inter island
Loving the editing and everything here. Just one minor thing, Southwest doesn’t serve Molokai or Lanai directly as the runways are far too short for the 737. 2:09
Also, I’m in awe at how well you maintain audio consistency between all these locations. Very well done.
technically not too short :P with a short field package, Brazilian operators can fly 737-800's in and out of Santos Dumomt which has even shorter runways.
@@CAG2 made me look into this, and holy moly that airfield is nuts. Thank you for bringing this to my attention 👍
Hawaiian doesn't serve them anymore either, so it doesn't really matter from a competitive stand point.
Correct, thanks for pointing that out and the compliments. Molokai and Lanai should not have been highlighted on that graphic.
Hawaiian use to fly the DC-9/717 to Molokai and Lanai. The landing/take off in Lanai was a trip. Will we stop before the end of the runway and will we get airborne. It was a thrill ride.
When visiting friends on Maui a couple years ago, they were so happy SWA was making flights cheap. I warned them that they don’t want to lose HAL, which could be a consequence. That sobered them up…
The biggest bonus is that Southwest allows 2 large suitcases included with your ticket and with Hawaiian Airlines each one is extra
Not to mention a carry-on, personal bag, and a surfboard
A Hawaiian-Alaskan merger makes sense.. Two regional players with very specific markets all tied together via hubs in Los Angeles and Seattle as well as Anchorage and Honolulu. I hope it gets approved. Here in Canada? WestJet is also having the same mid-market issues and is also losing money last time I checked. Edmonton-based Flair as problematic as it is has taken all the ULCC adjacent business away so they aren't even cheap anymore. Just a low-rent Air Canada clone which isn't a good look since AC itself it thoroughly mid at best... And always hours late...
The last time I flew West Jet it made me miss everything about Air Canada, except having to connect through YYZ or YUL.
Like other airlines, Southwest earn just under 10% of it's revenue from cargo 'underneath'. The freight revenue on the Hawaii routes needs to be considered before concluding that they are losing money solely based on load factor and average ticket price.
That's incorrect for Southwest. Southwest freight revenue was 0.6% of revenue last year, about $175mil. It's likely high margin but it's nowhere near the importance it would be if it were 10% of revenue.
Correct - for Southwest’s Hawaii flights, because of the way Southwest does both flight planning and weight and balance calculation, both using older technology although Southwest will be moving to AveoBook in September, this means Southwest cannot carry as much cargo as does UA on the routes to Hawaii. When you look at Hawaii you have to look at not just WN, HA, but also UA who has more seats in the market, and carries the most cargo with those 777’s - in Hawaii really UA sets the cargo prices.
Also consider if the HA/AS never goes through then nothing stops UA from entering the inter-island market as their codeshare with HA would cease.
True. Hawaiian air cargo is huge here. My company used it almost daily.
Important note: prior to Southwest's arrival, the average interisland fare was just under $70. Southwest began trying to buy market share by starting with $29 one way fares and the fares are hovering around $45 right now. Both airlines are hemorrhaging money as a result, more so at Southwest, but they have deeper pockets to back them up. Alaska, however, has learned how to beat Southwest and has deep pockets so they can hang in a firefight with them and it's only a matter of time before Southwest leaves the interisland game since Alaska knows it must defend that market at all costs and they'll make it even bloodier for Southwest to stay.
This sounds like what Mokulele was doing in the 2000s, which eventually drove Aloha Airlines out of business using smaller planes. At the time, Aloha was using Boeing 737-200s and Hawaiian was replacing its DC-9-30s with Boeing 717s (which are approximately the same size). Hawaiian operates routes like HNL-OGG more than 20 times daily. Southwest was trying to take away Hawaiian’s bread and butter services but took a financial bath. Also, Southwest only announced recently that it would do trans-con red-eyes. Since it wouldn’t do Hawaii to California red-eyes, that meant a lot of time on the ground in Hawaii, meaning inter-island flights.
This is a great video but it did ignore the other advantage Hawaiian has. (Yes they’re loosing money) Hawaiian is the only interisland codeshare. So if you fly delta to Honolulu and want to go to Lihue, you’d connect on Hawaiian. Southwest doesn’t do codeshares
Yes but
1) WN is slowly in the process of developing codeshare
2) If HA/AS merge then the code share with UA and DL would cease
3) nothing prevents UA, who is the the biggest carrier to Hawaii, from developing their own inter-island network.
@@cxa340 UA has been in the market here as long as anybody. If they didn’t already know what SWA is learning, yeah, they could do interisland. They are thrilled watching SWA burn money on this problem.
Not only that, southworst does not have Interline Agreements with the other airlines. This not only means that if one has to transfer between another air carrier such as Delta or United, luggage will not be transferred between them and southworst in the connecting city. The lack of Interline Agreements also means that the other airlines will not accept a southworst ticket for travel on their airline should a need arise (for example, years ago my flight to Seattle had to be cancelled due to mechanical difficulties, United just made arrangements for the next closest scheduled flight on Alaska on my originally purchased airline ticket.)
I love your channel, and I highly encourage you to make and upload more videos. You've already done a great job creating the ones you have uploaded, and this channel will easily grow given more content and some regularity with uploads, even a single video per month would be excellent at this stage. Thank you for the effort you've put into this, and I look forward to seeing your channel grow :) Take care.
Last time I went to Hawaii in 2007, interisland fares on Hawaiian airlines were a fraction of what they are now. Of course, Aloha Airlines was still in business at the time, so it’s nice to see someone trying to break up Hawaiians monopoly on interisland.
Exactly.
Competition is healthy. Unhealthy competition, such as flooding the market with loss-leader fares you cannot possibly break even on in an attempt to get your competitor to leave the market, is not. And that's what Southwest is doing, and why both are bleeding - although Southwest is bleeding far more heavily.
Not break up so much as replace them on ripping you off for air flights.
@2:54 this is an example of when you'd want to use mean instead of median, since you're trying to calculate the total revenue per flight which only works with mean.
That’s fair. I do have both, average was $293 for mainland flights
I was a huge Southwest fan, going back to my youth in the '70s. But this is definitely not the same Southwest Airlines that I knew and loved. You have to wonder, would have Herb approved of not only the flights to and from the mainland but also the Inter-Island flights. Honestly, I don't believe that he would. Going up against a beloved carrier like Hawaiian, would have been a gamble that he might not have taken. Honestly, I am pulling for Hawaiian (tough for a Texan to say). Southwest lost is soul and those little things that made it special when Herb passed, now it is becoming just another airline
But it makes sense to provide a low-cost interisland alternative to Hawaiian
More videos on airlines and aviation please love your production style!
I flew swa from Maui to Phoenix a couple years ago. NEVER again. The 737 is too small, cramped, uncomfortable for a flight that long. Flew American on the 787 after that. Will only fly an airline that offers larger aircraft on the route.
You got it. At 6ft a 737 to mainland is torture.
If you think 6-7 hours on a Southwest 737 is too rough for you, then I suggest you don't venture to some of the far corners of the globe. You will be sobbing like a child begging for the comfort of that Southwest 737 when compared to true rough travel accommodations that some parts of the world throw at you.
The funny part about this comment is, the seat on their 787 are just as cramped at the 737. Sure, the plane is bigger, but the space at your seat isn’t…
If it’s Boeing ain’t going
@@mehill7786 And SWA has WAY more pitch/leg room than its competitors. Fact.
Good video regarding Southwest in Hawaii. I am loyal to Hawaiian but geez, the round trip cost to and from the continent is still high. 🌺
No frills? Free drinks and snacks, no charge for checked bags, hundreds of free movies, shows, music and games, more legroom than anyone else in coach, etc? Spirit, frontier, Allegiant, Avelo, are no frills.
The seat selection coming and wifi is making me finally consider them as my budget carrier. I’ve been flying quite a bit with one of the LCCs since the legacies are exorbitant
Mmmm not the most legroom in coach that would be JetBlue but everything else yes.
@@Roswalienn Incorrect, SW wins pitch room by a mile.
@@johnfitzgerald1879 I would go look this up you are incorrect it is close but JetBlue edges them out.
@@johnfitzgerald1879 by a mile would also be a stretch even if that were true which it is not JetBlue ranges from 32.3” of seat pitch to 38” and with they are the same at 17.8” and JetBlue even has some wider seats at over 18”.
How is "price fixing" not illegal? If SWA succeeds, then no entity that can stop SWA from raising prices equal to or greater than what HAL is charging. (BTW, pineapple drinks typically use rum. Hawaii has several in-state rum distilleries)
Think you might mean predatory pricing instead of price fixing in this case. Which is illegal but extremely difficult to prove. So a court decision would take forever. If you're the defense of Southwest you'd raise arguments like...
1. The market could change, no one is stopping new entrants
2. How can you be sure that Southwest will raise prices above what Hawaiian had them if they succeed?
3. What definition/scope of "cost" are we using to prove that Southwest is/was pricing it's flights beneath it's operating cost?
And then courts are often reluctant to punish behavior that seems to benefit consumers. Uber and Wal-Mart are some other examples of companies who've been accused of predatory pricing. Yet consumers, for the most part, love their services.
Excellent take on this. Thank you!
Agree. Larger corporations shouldn’t be able bankrupt smaller corporations by purposely losing money. I’m all for capitalism, but they are charging higher mainland fares to subsidize their anticompetitive behavior with the intention of putting Hawaiian out of business and charging sky-high prices when they go out-of-business.
@@iseewoodit’s how airlines have worked since day zero and they continue their pissing matches to get market share. They’ve gotten much more rational in not getting in too many pissing matches, but they get in them nevertheless.
I love SWA for interisland. Bigger planes and free bags for about $90.00. But for getting to Hawaii, I won't take a 737. They've been flying interisland since serving Hawaii.
Great video! What isn’t mentioned, though, is where Southwest Chief Operating Officer Andrew Watterson came from… any guesses? That’s right, Hawaiian Airlines. He was once the HAL Vice President of Planning and Revenue Management… at a time when HAL was the controlling carrier of the Interisland market (post-Aloha Airlines shutdown). He literally controlled the route pricing for HAL.
exactly. His pet project to take down his former employer turned into a money pit
@@mattp4735and passengers are the big winners
South West fucked themselves and Hawaiian. Hawaiian often ran at a loss since Hawaii has such high jet fuel cost. Only ones profitable are flying to Asia. tldr even Monopoly in Hawaii run nearly at loss.
This account deserves more followers
Hey Phil, I am delighted to find your channel. Subscribed and encourage you to keep going. Peeps are hungry with your type of delivery of info.
Excellent video, kept my attention spiked the entire time!
Well, Hawaii is indeed the Southwesternmost state 😅
this content is amazing. i love the insight into this buissness sector and economic view of this battle between companies. wonderful content.
United Airlines brings the most amount of passengers from the Mainland to Hawaii. They outdo SWA, Alaska, and Hawaiian. Not number of flights, but passengers. Mostly large 777 aircraft in use is the reason. No inter island flights.
I know when a UA-cam channel will pop off, this is one of them. 19k subs if this guy keeps it up he’s gonna be at a 1 mil.
Great content in this video! I could really see this ~taking off~
🥁
Also Hawaii at any time can restart local ferry systems.
Not really. It's cheaper to fly
I live here and prefer Southwest vs Hawaiian, it's cheaper, you get two free bags, they are clean, always on time.
It's cheaper because they're actively losing money being there and once they're the only game left those prices are going way the hell up like when Aloha Air closed. They are on time because they literally have nowhere else to be.
Always on time.... lmao. Every time i go on southwest its always delayed.
@@MikeyA5693 Same with me and Hawaiian- cancelled flights and always delayed, especially the mainland flights.
Great video. Definitely prefer HAL to Southwest! Feels more like you're flying in/out of Hawaii :)
Back in 2021, we flew SWA from Oakland to Maui and it was an uncomfortable 5 1/2 hours -- we did fly free round trip, which is why we did it (SWA credit card points) -- I would prefer a wide-body plane as you can upgrade and get better comfort for that flight. I even had a friend fly Hawaiian 1st class from Orlando to HNL non-stop and it was long, but amazing! That route has since been canceled by HA.
That’s not exactly how aircraft operating costs work. A lot of airlines make money through upgrades, premium sales, and cargo. So they don’t necessarily need to fill an aircraft at a certain ticket price.
One thing you did not mention is the fact these inter island routes are very hard on the Southwest 737 Max fleet. They and the equivalent Airbus planes are not good for short routes with quick turnarounds. Their engines need time to cool down which the fleet of Hawaiians B-717 don't. When Aloha was in business they tried using more advanced 737 aircraft on these routes, but again the short turnarounds was too hard on the engines so they flew their older 737-200 planes till the end. To this day these old planes are still flying cargo between the islands. The B-717 is the perfect plane for this operation, but is getting a little long in the tooth. Hawaiian needs to make some fleet decisions in the next couple years!
They already have.
You're right, it is something I had considered but didn't make it in. They're running 3-4 of these per day, climbing the plane from 0-15k feet every few hours in the Hawaiian heat and salty air. Depreciation and operating costs on these routes is likely at the high end of all SW routes.
Not a 737 expert but it appears to me Southwest is trying to shoehorn their fleet into these routes these planes probably shouldn't be in.
@@Spyke-lz2hl I did not know that. What plane is Hawaiian getting to replace the 717?
@@michaelmichniak127 The rumor on the HNL south ramp is that its going to be the A319
Let’s not forget what Hawaiian and Young Bros did to remove the SuperFerry. We need options to keep prices competitive
Environmental lawsuits helped end Superferry, not HAL and YB.
Or maybe we just need to appreciate what we have and accept the limitations that Hawaii has. Most people move here to escape from something. If where they are from is paradise then they wouldn't have moved. But it's crazy how people want to turn Hawaii into what they had on the mainland. If it was great then why move. If you're from Hawaii and think the grass is greener or your lacking things. Maybe move to the mainland for a few years and be reminded of how special Hawaii was. I grew up in Hawaii when you could have unique life experiences that you couldn't find on the mainland.
Environmental lawsuits...backed by lobbyists from the airline industry.
Hawaii takes in cruise ships that come from all over the Pacific. So spare the ecological debate. The super ferry was meant to stay in Hawaii.
Hawaiian vs. Southwest is a no-brainer.
Hawaiian all the way.
Better product from CA to HI.
I have flown SW three times and every time there was an issue. I may be in the minority on that because everyone seems to love them, but this is one passenger who will never fly them again.
And compared to Hawaiian?? Not even close!
I like Hawaiian better too because their livery looks better and their planes are quieter and I go to school next to Kona airport so that’s why
We're small enough in the islands that electric inter-island flights are feasible. Mokulele is trying kinda with their Seaglider thing, but they've had a pretty bad reputation for reliability. If someone can do that well they'd likely take over the inter-island market.
@@punkdigerati That’s a good point, could make sense for the geography. Mokulele has the bad reputation or the Seaglider?
@@Maxinomics Mokulele, Seaglider isn't operational yet and too new to say.
Dream on. Electric airplanes??? They can’t even make a reliable electric car yet.
Don’t be naive all this hype comes from these democrats politicians I work for the major airlines for well over 35 plus years and electric motors no matter what kind require batteries which are too heavy and hazardous and does not have the capacity and capability to power electric motors efficiently and safely ,they tried this back in the 70’s and it was a total failure but yes technology has improved but it will take another 25-35 years of development, look at it this way electric cars are failing and dealership can’t even give these cars away ,they have maybe 200-300 miles of range depending on weight temperature and other conditions especially cold temperatures for these cars to operate to get maximum range and I don’t need to mention infrastructure problems .Maybe I am negative but that is my opinion working on gas turbine engines for well over 35 plus years and studying electric motors and battery technology for the past 7 years,if you don’t believe me go to any dealership on the mainland where EV’s are sold and do your research
@@mikethompson3534 EVs will take over but I do agree it would be at least another 20 years.
"Kona to...Lihoo??"
Yes, where is Lihoo?
Lihoo is the city right next to hakaloogy. theres a mcdunolds there that sells frais.
I was gonna say he butchered the pronunciation of Lihue to the point I had to think about it for a second.
🤣 its actually pronounced lee-who-ay
Isn’t Lihoo on the island of Ka Wow Wee? 😅
You need to do better research. Hawaiian was not the exclusive interisland carrier for “decades”. Aloha airlines which operated 737s competed with Hawaiian for about 60 years until it went bankrupt in 2008. Hawaiian since then until SWA came to Hawaii monopolized the interisland market.
Flights are full going to Hawaii in the daytime but nearly empty when they leave Hawaii for the mainland at night.
Pardon? Almost all the Hawaii outbound flights leave at night and red eye to the mainland - this is one of the Achilles heal for WN as they do not operate red eye flights currently and do not have the technology to do so. For the other carriers the red eye evening departure run an almost 100% load factor
@@cxa340 I lived in Hawaii for 12 years from the mid '80's to '97 and I traveled a lot during that time. The red eye outbound was my favorite and nearly empty United 747 were the best. I'd take the center 4 seats, fold up the arm rests and lay down to sleep. Have things changed since then?
@@mikeh2520
You mean have things changed in the 27 years since? You are seriously asking that question? I spent the last 2 years commuting between Hawaii and Texas every week - not sure if you realize but UA doesn’t even fly the 747 anymore. Yes, the red eye flights have the highest load factor and they have for decades on flights from HNL
@@cxa340 People don't want to board an airplane at 10:00 PM. I can't imagine that actually changed. Airlines need that jet back on the mainland asap for the next trip. I miss the 747s and the L1011 was a favorite as well. Western Airlines was my all time favorite back in the day.
@@mikeh2520
If you haven’t actually flown to Hawaii anytime this century not sure your opinion matters much compared to this of us who have flown to Hawaii this month. Passengers prefer the red eye flights out of Honolulu, because they do not want to waste an entire day and and half returning back to the Midwest, South, or East coast. By leaving at 5pm-10pm in Hawaii passengers have the option to be home the next morning.
Thank you Southwest!!! They forced Hawaiian to drop prices. Hawaiian had a monopoly basically and were gouging prices bad. I love Hawaiian but they were ridiculously expensive.
They most certainly were not gouging.
Did you watch the whole video? He explains that if southwest succeeds in getting rid of Hawaiian. They will most certainly raise the price again, this time with no competition
Did we watch the same video? lol They’re gonna raise their prices when they eliminate Hawaiian.
@@countryfuciusWrong…after Aloha went under, they were gouging the people of Hawaii until SWA came in and forced Hawaiian to compete again.
Nobody knows what will happen, any number of different scenarios could play out, just enjoy the low fares.
Hawaiian did it to themselves before Southwest came in .
When island air closed and no competition for Hawaiian THEY RAISED THERE PRICES
…Southwest is fantastic in Hawaii…stunning how loyal locals are to Hawaiian…great job here…
Great video! Lets hop the merger goes through so the price war can continue
Great analysis, thanks.
Another important point: A ~180 seat 737 is TOTALLY the wrong plane for those inter-island routes. Way too big. They need 30-40 seaters to do it right.
Would love to go to Hawaii ~ but hotel costs are so high. I do feel more of "the lower classes" would visit if hotels were cheaper. Modern pricing assumes we are all millionaires from the Covid spending ~~! Las Vegas has gotten that way too ~ way too expensive for the "Chattering masses" ~
Sometimes cheaper to rent a condo with no services than full service hotel room.
Local here. I hope SWA and HA stay flying interisland cuz when it was just HA, it was so expensive, once another airline, prices automatically dropped.
Just an off-subject comment. I love the narrator's hair. Sometimes it appears parted on the left and other times, parted on the right. :D
Name's Phil and thank you! It has a mind of it's own
Award winning hair.
Thank you Southwest for flying interisland! Hawaiian Airlines was killing us with that $200 for a 20 minute flight.
As soon as Southwest forces Hawaiian out of the market, it will go back to the original prices.
SWA deserves what it gets for their massive corporate Texas HQ greed.
Flying a single aisle BOEING 737 to Hawai'i, on budget cattle carrier, SWA, for 5 hours is highly uncomfortable bordering on tortuous.
SWA also brings the worst budget travellers to Hawai'i.
SWA passengers nickel and dime their way through the islands, stressing the infrastructure and taking more then they contribute to Hawai'i.
The SWA traveller cheapens the island paradise.
Don’t forget to mention that passengers use their miles to book a Hawaii vacation. Most of my friends on Southwest praised Southwest for starting to fly to Hawaii so they can use their Rapid Rewards Miles on a Hawaii trip. That’s more money lost that’s not accounted for. United uses high-density 777 aircraft because of that.
very interesting video, thanks for sharing!
Flew to and from Hawaii a couple days before this video came out, and it was 5x cheaper than Hawaiian. Crazy stuff.
So you want Hawaiian Airlines to have no competition? Your video suggests there isn't room for more than one airline in a market which you said is huge. Are you including the highly profitable freight going back and forth? I have heard the customers are gravy on top of cargo.
Southwest is good for 1-2 hour flights. Over the water for 5-7 hours? Hell no.
Really informative video, good job.
I don’t think Hawaii is the only reason Southwest is losing money.. they’re getting ready to be that many of their planes with a “business section” adapt assigned seating they’re trying to make several changes across the board
Very informative!!
An informative vid. Living in So Cal I always fly HA. I don’t like SW’s open seating and need to check in as soon as possible rush.
I do not fly on SWA because of the cattle call seating method. (Towards the end Aloha Airlines did as well, and that was my last flight on them)
How is it that so many people find it so hard to check-in online 24 hours before you flight? I do it all the time and it’s so easy
@@santoshNarayana It is easy, but it doesn't feel real to me. At the airport says "yes, I am here"; anything before that says "I am still interested."
@@Arkelk2010 What? But you already paid for your flight, how do you consider that as "I'm still interested"?
@@santoshNarayana I pay for my flight way before check in when I make the reservation. It is probably because I have been flying for decades and still have that perspective, but checking in to me tells the airline I am here for the reservation and seat I paid for. Not, I am going to be there, but am here.
I’d FAR rather fly Hawaiian to Hawaii than Southwest.
Hawaiian Airlines is top notch. I fly from SEA to OGG at least once a year. When you’re in the air 5+ hours the quality of service really matters. We’ve tried many different airlines. HA is far ahead of the game for flights to and from Maui. The HA/AK merge would be awesome for the northwest region Hawaii lovers.
Loki giving me traveling advice. Thanks!
Need to properly pronounce Lihue. 😅 0:46
thank you for the correction!
Nobody cares, the Hawaiian language is obsolete
That was very informative.
Great video. However, your calcs don't include freight revenue. Many carriers flying to Hawaii make their profit from freight, as their flights are typically full of reward passengers. *received this info from the former American Airlines freight manager in Maui.🤙🏽
Do the cost of their hotel room rates, they are sky high all year round.
Literally just got a southwest ad before this
Max. Love the brevity. New sub.
Your videos are great !
The DOJ and Alaska have agreed to extend the deadline for the antitrust division's review to August 15th. That tells me they're trying to find a way to get to "yes" and are working on what asks, if any, they'll have of Alaska to allow the acquisition to go through. Once cleared, Alaska will have 72 hours to cut the check for $1.9B to Hawaiian's shareholders, and they have the cash on hand. Then it'll be 12-18 months to get a single operating certificate and it all becomes Alaska Airlines, although the existing Hawaiian flying will still use the Hawaiian brand.
FYI, the picture you showed of “the only aircraft variant they fly to the islands” isn’t a picture of a MAX 8. Also, you show that they fly to Lanai which they don’t.
Superhub educational Info !
That GDP stat is misleading. Should Hawaii go under and be replaced by SWA, the new airline would replace virtually all of that economic benefit instead. They would be bringing the tourists in and employing Hawaiin residents. Currently the two operating is likely bringing more tourists to the island than the single airline did in the past with lower fares.
SWA and HAL are hardly the only ways visitors get to Hawaii. AA, AS, DL, and UA all carry lots of people between the mainland and HI. (Run the numbers on how many seats UA flies to the islands each month. You might be surprised.) I don't think anybody who lives here would rather see a future with SWA as the monopoly carrier interisland instead of HAL or would consider these outcomes of equal economic benefit here in Hawaii. How many crew is SWA basing in the islands? How much maintenance are they doing here? Etc.
@@outby50 I'm sure the people in Hawaii would prefer to see HAL win out. I agree all those airlines provide service albeit at a higher fare for the most part. Many do so because of loyalty programs often driven by members who are long time business flyers. They have money and will come regardless of fare. At the end of the day, SWA will likely bring people who are drawn by cheaper fares and likely actually drive up GDP at least in the measure that is being touted. HAL maintenance bases already include Seattle and Los Angeles. SWA will obviously have to have maintenance in Hawaii, long ferry flight back to the US. Jobs will be a wash and airlines pay crappy money unless maybe you are a pilot. Might even increase, lot's of overnight hotels for aircrews and their spending versus HAL crews. Would hate to see the end of HAL for nostalgia reasons but sometimes progress causes pain.
I would love to see a video about anything on Puerto Rico.
great video for little subs! subscribed
Very succinct video! Nice job!
Thank you!
Ya, Hawaiian was over charging inner island flights by 100s of dollars
When is the decision on the Alaska-Hawaiian merger? Is that the DoJ’s turf?
Any day now. It was supposed to be by August 5th, but actually yesterday they reach an extension agreement to push it til August 15th.
And yes, it's the DoJ deciding if they're going to sue to stop the merger.
Why does Hawaiian cut iys prices when Southwest enters the Hawaiian market. Why not keep the prices the same all of the time?
Everything about hawaiiannairlines sucks. Their seats are hard as a rock. Customer service aweful. Ticket prices are expensive. They used to be ok. Not now. I’m glad there is competition.
I know this is a channel about economics but seeing the image of a 737-700 referred to as MAX 8 is still unacceptable to an aviation fan 😅
Good eye. Moved from 737 to 737 Max 8 for better accuracy late in the editing process and didn't update the plane. For anyone wondering, it's the only plane they fly on the HA routes.
Maybe Hawaiian shouldn’t have robbed all of its customers.
This was very well done.
Two weeks ago, I was shopping for tickets from Sacramento to Kauai, via Honolulu. I assumed that Southwest would be cheaper than Hawaiian; however, Hawaiian was over $700 cheaper per round trip ticket, compared to Hawaiian. After baggage charges and some modest seat upgrades, from Hawaiian, I still saved approx. $550 per round trip price. Who would'da thunk?
However, Hawaiian was over $700 cheaper per round trip ticket, compared to itself?
@@TM-nu5vd Looks like I blew it! I meant to say that Hawaiian was $700 cheaper than Southwest.
I like the pretzel twists on Southwest they’re pretty good
Biscoff cookies, I'll take two
Did you factor in the Cargo? There is always cargo aboard these flights as well as passengers and luggage, in the late 80's - 90's Delta flew nearly empty md-11 and 767 direct from HNL to ATL, they could do this because the cargo of Pineapples and Orchids paid for the flight.... Passengers were a bonus...
We had to fly Southwest last year after a mixup with our original reservations with Hawaiian. It was cramped and terrible. Hawaiian is just soooooooo much better in every way.
Congrats Southwest, not only did they hand over Hawaiian’s Market share to Alaska, but their bet failed and a Hedge fund is in the process of taking them over.
Just wondering, but isn’t what Southwest is doing grounds for an antitrust lawsuit?
It’s very hard to definitively prove predatory pricing. You could make the accusation and bring a case but it would be a very long process with a highly uncertain outcome.
In large part because the judgment rests on forecasting… markets can change quickly, would they absolutely become the only provider to the market *and* increase prices? What accounting method are we using to determine SWs costs for these routes?… These are just some of the ways a defense team would present Southwests case
No, why should it be?
It feels a bit like when Bombardier sold their planes for a loss, and then Boeing sued. I’m guessing it’s because it’s domestic competition that it’s not so much an issue for the US government?
This is a very common practice in the airline industry since deregulation occurred.
Where was this guy when Hawaiian and Aloha couldn't figure out how to survive in a market that only supports one airline. Where was he when the state trade commission denied a merger between Hawaiian and Aloha. Where was he when Mesa realized there were two clueless bankrupt airlines in the middle of the Pacific sitting on a goldmine. Where was he when Mesa took a look at both airlines, decided to buy Aloha, who then was owned buy a clueless investment group led by former NFL player Willy Gault, got turned down and then decided to start their own airlines called Go, charge ridiculously low prices and financially squeeze out the weak. Where was he when Hawaiian execs testified at a state hearing that a flight from Oahu to Hilo, 2/3 filled, can make a profit at $54 a ticket? Where was he when Mesa declared they had a war chest that allowed them to charge $2 tickets for three years. They asked Aloha how long can they survive at $2 tickets. Where was he when Willy Gault tried to sell Aloha to Mesa and Mesa luaghed. Where was he when Willy and his crew pulled out three months in advance, then locked up and closed shop without notice. Where was he when Mesa decided to pull out of Hawaii because they didn't expect the ‘08 world market to last well into ‘10. Where was he when Hawaiian became the only player in the market by default and implemented the very diabolical plan Mesa wanted to do- rape and pillage a subservient and clueless local market. Where was he when Hawaiian jacked inter-island flights from $39 to $150 one way and a $15 baggage fee per bag (which btw he fails to mention that’s the second most profitable revenue after credit cards for all airlines) Where was he when Hawaiian became insanely profitable and began to expand their market worldwide. Why isn’t he talking about how Hawaiian can’t manage their airline against direct competition. Why isn’t he talking about how Hawaiian investors are desperately selling their holdings to Alaska Airlines because they are clueless to function with direct competition.
Got A dog in this fight?
@@steffnain45 the truth
I have no idea so I wont doubt, and you seem like you know your info on flight providers in Hawaii...
But this video is on Southwest and their new corporate strategy, not about Hawaiian airlines and how it got to be in the position its in today. Even if UA-cam existed then, or even if 60 minutes had done a special on it, nothing much public coud have done would have changed the outcome of Hawaiian and Aloha
@@alexhenao7072 Your statement should've ended after your first four words. Sorry.
What about the commuter airlines? I know they've changed their routes lately, and are kinda limited now, but most of the locals I know fly Mokulele.
Southwest needs to fly to American Samoa
Bro went to Bare Foot Cafe in Waikiki. You have good taste sir
It seems to me SWA has cut way back on HI flights from LAX
Nice vid!