The water cleaning system sounds cool and if you can run cold water over the panels and catch it, the panels will become cooler, making them work better and last longer. Then, the water can be pumped over to a storage are where the water heat can be transferred into sand or clay in a greenhouse to act as a battery for colder periods. Electricity and heat production with cleaning solution built in.
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
Bifacial solar fencing is probably the biggest leap in solar technology in a while for the sheer number of sites that these could be installed at on earth. Well as much as transparent solar films that will soon be covering all windows will do too! If its a surface collecting solar radiation it just makes sense to put some sort of panel on it... Despite what the FUD's think!
I’ve watched about 30 minutes so far. Do you have any analysis or links to sites where you can analyze bifacial production when it’s mounted at 90 degrees versus an optimal year round angle? Or how the production changes as the south, east, north, west orientation changes? Overall this is an interesting idea just trying to brain storm a little
You can perhaps considering using a reflector system that sends the southern rays to the east or west sides of the north/south array. Reflectors can be adjusted with sun positioning systems also.
I guess after thinking about this more I don't understand why not just mount the panel on top of the fence post. Seems like you're giving up a lot of production just to make a fence out of the panel. Plus it seems like this would be risky if you have cattle since they can break one of your fence panels pretty easily. It looks cool but using the panel as a fence seem to sacrifice too much of the function of the panel.
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 Well, if you do not have livestock EATING the weeds along the fence, then yes. You will note this guy is NOT putting the solar panels near the ground which means you STILL must have normal wire. He/NREL then LIED about $$$ to weed around panels in a solar park. There is ZERO maintenance/year for weeds as they are above them which utterly destroys his BS "economic" model in all cases. Not to mention a tree comes down... yea, OUCH! You also know damned well the cows are going to be scratching themselves on that fencing and those panels will EASILY break when this happens which UTTERLY destroys his argument. Beyond stupid. Only thing makes sense is tracking panels in LONG rows high enough to allow cows to graze underneath. End of story.
What work has been done using irrigation water to clean panels. RST mentions limescale. Would you treat all irrigation water or run parallel cleaning and irrigation lines?
The solar cleaning systems like RST need the water filtered, this system could also be used for precision irrigation systems. Parallel irrigation lines untreated water
@@ButterflyPower Thanks. The question was around how to set that up. Obviously filtering all agricultural water is unreasonable, so filtering at water at the panel or central filtering with separate water lines?
@@SeekingBeautifulDesign your welcome, thanks for clarifying. Irrigation is complicated and it depends on what Ag. operation you are trying to irrigate. There are many benefits to shift to precision irrigation where applicable, which is more water efficient and can benefit from filtration. Agrivoltaics is an area where this is particularly happening. Excellent example here: ua-cam.com/video/bH-L9KK8Wpc/v-deo.html For solar cleaning, RST is a good example that comes with a filtration system. Hope that is valuable.. If you have a specific project you can reach send some info and I can provide specific options. project@butterflypower.org
@@ButterflyPower Ok...not getting point across, so just FYI: When I build this, I will choose between central water treatment and parallel irrigation and treated lines to panel or single untreated line to panel with treatment at each panel or a 3rd, better solution.
Can you see the future urban litigation with privacy fences? WHO OWNS THE SUNLIGHT ON THE NEIGHBOURS SIDE? What happens if you install bifacial and the neighbor then installs a monofacial on his side?
Dealing with adjacent properties is always an issue for any system, walls, buildings and fences. So yes there is a planning process required. Most Solar fences require a small amount of space between them, so this is a design constraint. However many project have many fences that can work as solar fence.
Do you need to put an offset electric fence wire in front of the panels to prevent cattle from rubbing on the panels? I don't think they would last 25 years being rubbed in every day.
LOL of course you have to which UTTERLY destroys his "economic" model. Requires building 2 fences and repairing 2 fences instead of 1... This is so brain dead I can't even stop laughing. Not to mention NREL blatantly lied and the guy did not pick up on fact that ZERO solar parks have annual maintenance for weeding as they just let the weeds grown under the panels which hurt no one. $45,000/year in maintenance for weeding ROFL!!!! What a joke! That is ZERO!
Whats the cost benefit of 1 bifacial panel vs 2 unipanels? I always heard bifacial pitched as good for if something is reflecting on the face away from the sun, like snow. But i guess it's cheaper if youre using them like this for a fence.
It is covered in the Video in the Power and Generation section. The reflective for backside is based on the angle and albedo of the surface reflecting the light. In the Fence, in East west each side gets sun in the morning and afternoon.
Thank you for the links, do any of your YT posts have links to the solar panel fence rack components? I may have missed the link(s) after reviewing the channel posts. I see in the fence presentation the name "Fence Rack" but no link to the maker and a web search did not produce anything. Do you have a list of solar panel fence or vertical fence rack makers?
What are current popular distances between solar rows in east west lines? Most of our unused areas are on south facing slopes. I plan to use surplus used sharp panels. Looks like 12-18 inches are needed for grass Cuttings.
I’m interested in bifacial panels as you and other people show how much more energy they can produce even with south facing array. My skepticism about using them as a fence feature is panel fragility and my location is Taos County NM and I can see Joe Shit the rag man shooting bullets at my expensive fence panels for grins. Second, off grid solar is my only option there currently as there is no grid power offered by the single electric coop that serves the entire northern part of the state. 3. When new line service is available coop rates are high so it’s cost $/kw is quite high, and the coop has a take it or leave it net metering policy that pays only $.06/kw as I recall and they only settle up once a year. Not monthly or quarterly. 4. So there is no financial benefit to invest in expensive systems $.kw or to be a high power producer unless it is for self consumption. No benefit selling power to the grid because of the large net metering differential. My 2 cents.
To determine south facing or any panel alignment, you need to measure at the location to determine actual yields over the year, There are many apps that allow you to calculate based on the abgle of incidence of the panels, in the case of a fence 90 degrees. Solar panels are not fragile, strongest most highly engineered glass that is guaranteed to operate for 25-40 years. As far as someone shooting your panels, that's a unique problem that will be hard to solve for..
As far as the economics of using power for self consumption or selling to grid, COOP or Utility, you have to run the economics vs. cost of the system in your projects local area.
@@ButterflyPower Do you keep track of any State, local or Federal grant / loan program that helps rual lot owners construct a solar system when there is no available grid system currently and the sole electric power provider is not able to offer the grid equipment for more than a year or two out from June 2023?
@@dewholdingsllc1050 Yes, here is a breakdown of project economics for Farms and Ranches, Does not need to be grid connected ua-cam.com/video/dw76ZYDnaPA/v-deo.html
@@dewholdingsllc1050 Also have entire series on overall Agrivoltaics Micro-Grid Market on our website and in UA-cam playlist. www.butterflypower.org/us-avss-market/
(just a piece of constructive criticism) I'm not sure if this is a one off thing or not. But the audio on this video was very distorted. Making it, for me at least, hard to listen to what you were saying.
You will have larger farm animals keep testing your "fence", you will have rats keep chews up wires for fun and snakes getting into places where they shouldn't. Horse flies might be able to break those when they fly into one. Goats etc might headbutt one of those if they see their reflections. I am not sure if this is worth it due to the upfront cost of the panels etc and you might keep replacing broken panels. Solar farms don't really run large farm animals, maybe just chickens and ducks etc.
@@stickynorth In this context, “FUD” stands for “Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.” It is a term used to describe the act of spreading negative, often exaggerated or unfounded information to influence people’s perceptions. The commenter is implying that the original post is attempting to create unnecessary worry and skepticism about solar farms by listing potential issues that may not be as significant or common as suggested.
You would want to put the panels out of reach of whatever stock you have in the field, so it would cost a bit more on fence posts. Cattle are probably a bad idea, as a tonne of animal can do a lot of damage to a fence, but sheep and goats are probably not too bad. The fences are much more practical to integrate into farmland whatever you are doing with them. The only issue is that it would be harder to see all the stock in a field. Rodents will be an issue in any field, and conduits are a standard technology which you will have to install whatever you are doing with the land.
20.44 - wrong calculations. East/West directions can not produce full power during 6 hours. There will be much lower generation. During sunny summer day we have 5-6 PEAK hours in average for optimally angled south facing surface (hope you understand the difference between daylight and peak sun hours). Optimally angled south facing panel will generate way more energy, than vertical bifacial from east/west. Actually, sun energy to vertical East/West is about 50% comparing to 30-40 degrees angled south. But back side of bifacial panel generate in average 50% less power than front side. So, you either lose 25% energy, or need to install 2 one-side panels oriented to east AND west.
good bifacial panels have 85%+ backsides, and the vertical panels do not overheat as much/fast (morning and eveneing peak isnt that hot, better air circulation). Some tests already have shown more annual power (about 10% more) in favorable conditions. For example the panels stay cleaner and any time there is snow they outperform a standard system by far.
Mynorthside get the ball three hours of Sun every morning in the summertime and that's when the sun's just coming up out and then again in the evening when the sun's going down Sun faces on the Northside again give me another 3 hours of sunlight Grandad's Northwest and Northeast.
we would need deep underground channels or overhead wires to make use of a solar fence - a 10m length of fence would be around 500v DC - a barbed wire security fence will be required to protect people from the 10,000v fence 😂 Parallel circuit? bahahaha.
Its a great point on the best approach for wiring of solar fences with the long runs. It is an emerging system design, but happening all over the world. Having designed many of fence systems in real fields there are many great solutions. Also, adding distributed energy storage in the field eco-system at key areas can work while also providing power distribution across the farm, for well + pumps, etc. sunzaun.com/product/ next2sun.com/en/solar-fence/ A sub-electric fence 1-2 ft off the solar fence protects animals and people from interacting with it.
Interesting, not sure you watched the video, but the performance is very high especially in a properly designed system that receives EAST-West & South exposure in a regenerative grazing paddock operation. The performance rivals dual axis tracking systems in the generations profile.
@@ButterflyPower a properly designed solor system would have the panels facing the sun at all times during daylight hours. A dual faced panel has half its cells always facing away from the sun. By tgat metric alone i dont have to watch this crap. I get it they pay you we know but we aint dumb.
The water cleaning system sounds cool and if you can run cold water over the panels and catch it, the panels will become cooler, making them work better and last longer. Then, the water can be pumped over to a storage are where the water heat can be transferred into sand or clay in a greenhouse to act as a battery for colder periods. Electricity and heat production with cleaning solution built in.
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
great thinking
Bifacial solar fencing is probably the biggest leap in solar technology in a while for the sheer number of sites that these could be installed at on earth. Well as much as transparent solar films that will soon be covering all windows will do too! If its a surface collecting solar radiation it just makes sense to put some sort of panel on it... Despite what the FUD's think!
DC arcs don't like flammable things. Or squishy humans.
Would be interested to see a North & South fence
Southern facing work similar to a south fixed system.. in general seems a mix of multiple East-west and south seems to be a
Great video
Thank you!
I’ve watched about 30 minutes so far. Do you have any analysis or links to sites where you can analyze bifacial production when it’s mounted at 90 degrees versus an optimal year round angle? Or how the production changes as the south, east, north, west orientation changes?
Overall this is an interesting idea just trying to brain storm a little
It's about 50% less solar production. Verticle works best east west facing because the sun will be lower in the sky at sun rise and sun set.
You can perhaps considering using a reflector system that sends the southern rays to the east or west sides of the north/south array. Reflectors can be adjusted with sun positioning systems also.
How do you handle the electrical? just one megavolt string per row of hundreds of feet long?
As with all micro grids there needs to be a engineering plan to manage voltage and amperage across different solar strings..
I guess after thinking about this more I don't understand why not just mount the panel on top of the fence post. Seems like you're giving up a lot of production just to make a fence out of the panel. Plus it seems like this would be risky if you have cattle since they can break one of your fence panels pretty easily. It looks cool but using the panel as a fence seem to sacrifice too much of the function of the panel.
More of problem will be wind flex bending the panel forwards and backwards cracking the cells which is probably why nobody makes solar fences.
@@sang3Eta and weed-growth along the "fence" shading the panels... its a bloody stupid idea is what it is... 🙄😂
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 Well, if you do not have livestock EATING the weeds along the fence, then yes. You will note this guy is NOT putting the solar panels near the ground which means you STILL must have normal wire. He/NREL then LIED about $$$ to weed around panels in a solar park. There is ZERO maintenance/year for weeds as they are above them which utterly destroys his BS "economic" model in all cases. Not to mention a tree comes down... yea, OUCH! You also know damned well the cows are going to be scratching themselves on that fencing and those panels will EASILY break when this happens which UTTERLY destroys his argument. Beyond stupid. Only thing makes sense is tracking panels in LONG rows high enough to allow cows to graze underneath. End of story.
What work has been done using irrigation water to clean panels. RST mentions limescale. Would you treat all irrigation water or run parallel cleaning and irrigation lines?
The solar cleaning systems like RST need the water filtered, this system could also be used for precision irrigation systems. Parallel irrigation lines untreated water
@@ButterflyPower Thanks. The question was around how to set that up. Obviously filtering all agricultural water is unreasonable, so filtering at water at the panel or central filtering with separate water lines?
@@SeekingBeautifulDesign your welcome, thanks for clarifying. Irrigation is complicated and it depends on what Ag. operation you are trying to irrigate. There are many benefits to shift to precision irrigation where applicable, which is more water efficient and can benefit from filtration. Agrivoltaics is an area where this is particularly happening. Excellent example here: ua-cam.com/video/bH-L9KK8Wpc/v-deo.html
For solar cleaning, RST is a good example that comes with a filtration system.
Hope that is valuable..
If you have a specific project you can reach send some info and I can provide specific options. project@butterflypower.org
@@ButterflyPower Ok...not getting point across, so just FYI: When I build this, I will choose between central water treatment and parallel irrigation and treated lines to panel or single untreated line to panel with treatment at each panel or a 3rd, better solution.
Got it, Central filtration to separate lines seems the best approach generally. I'm not thinking of a better 3rd option
Can you see the future urban litigation with privacy fences? WHO OWNS THE SUNLIGHT ON THE NEIGHBOURS SIDE? What happens if you install bifacial and the neighbor then installs a monofacial on his side?
Dealing with adjacent properties is always an issue for any system, walls, buildings and fences. So yes there is a planning process required. Most Solar fences require a small amount of space between them, so this is a design constraint. However many project have many fences that can work as solar fence.
Do you need to put an offset electric fence wire in front of the panels to prevent cattle from rubbing on the panels? I don't think they would last 25 years being rubbed in every day.
Yes, your correct.. a electrical single sub wire fence to keep animals from touching the panels..
I reference this in the video briefly in multi species containment section
LOL of course you have to which UTTERLY destroys his "economic" model. Requires building 2 fences and repairing 2 fences instead of 1... This is so brain dead I can't even stop laughing. Not to mention NREL blatantly lied and the guy did not pick up on fact that ZERO solar parks have annual maintenance for weeding as they just let the weeds grown under the panels which hurt no one. $45,000/year in maintenance for weeding ROFL!!!! What a joke! That is ZERO!
Your < > symbols seem backwards.
Whats the cost benefit of 1 bifacial panel vs 2 unipanels? I always heard bifacial pitched as good for if something is reflecting on the face away from the sun, like snow. But i guess it's cheaper if youre using them like this for a fence.
It is covered in the Video in the Power and Generation section. The reflective for backside is based on the angle and albedo of the surface reflecting the light. In the Fence, in East west each side gets sun in the morning and afternoon.
Thank you for the links, do any of your YT posts have links to the solar panel fence rack components? I may have missed the link(s) after reviewing the channel posts. I see in the fence presentation the name "Fence Rack" but no link to the maker and a web search did not produce anything. Do you have a list of solar panel fence or vertical fence rack makers?
Great, Next Sun is good sol
ar fence company..
next2sun.com/en/solar-fence/
Also Et Sun.. et-sun.com/Solar-Fences/
Here is study on inverter and wiring www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1755008422000485
Here is a California based Solar Fence Company
sunzaun.com/
What are current popular distances between solar rows in east west lines?
Most of our unused areas are on south facing slopes. I plan to use surplus used sharp panels. Looks like 12-18 inches are needed for grass
Cuttings.
I’m interested in bifacial panels as you and other people show how much more energy they can produce even with south facing array. My skepticism about using them as a fence feature is panel fragility and my location is Taos County NM and I can see Joe Shit the rag man shooting bullets at my expensive fence panels for grins.
Second, off grid solar is my only option there currently as there is no grid power offered by the single electric coop that serves the entire northern part of the state. 3. When new line service is available coop rates are high so it’s cost $/kw is quite high, and the coop has a take it or leave it net metering policy that pays only $.06/kw as I recall and they only settle up once a year. Not monthly or quarterly.
4. So there is no financial benefit to invest in expensive systems $.kw or to be a high power producer unless it is for self consumption. No benefit selling power to the grid because of the large net metering differential. My 2 cents.
To determine south facing or any panel alignment, you need to measure at the location to determine actual yields over the year, There are many apps that allow you to calculate based on the abgle of incidence of the panels, in the case of a fence 90 degrees.
Solar panels are not fragile, strongest most highly engineered glass that is guaranteed to operate for 25-40 years. As far as someone shooting your panels, that's a unique problem that will be hard to solve for..
As far as the economics of using power for self consumption or selling to grid, COOP or Utility, you have to run the economics vs. cost of the system in your projects local area.
@@ButterflyPower Do you keep track of any State, local or Federal grant / loan program that helps rual lot owners construct a solar system when there is no available grid system currently and the sole electric power provider is not able to offer the grid equipment for more than a year or two out from June 2023?
@@dewholdingsllc1050 Yes, here is a breakdown of project economics for Farms and Ranches, Does not need to be grid connected ua-cam.com/video/dw76ZYDnaPA/v-deo.html
@@dewholdingsllc1050 Also have entire series on overall Agrivoltaics Micro-Grid Market on our website and in UA-cam playlist. www.butterflypower.org/us-avss-market/
(just a piece of constructive criticism)
I'm not sure if this is a one off thing or not. But the audio on this video was very distorted. Making it, for me at least, hard to listen to what you were saying.
Thank you for the feedback and will look at adjusting the audio for better sound 🙏🏻✨
You will have larger farm animals keep testing your "fence", you will have rats keep chews up wires for fun and snakes getting into places where they shouldn't. Horse flies might be able to break those when they fly into one. Goats etc might headbutt one of those if they see their reflections. I am not sure if this is worth it due to the upfront cost of the panels etc and you might keep replacing broken panels. Solar farms don't really run large farm animals, maybe just chickens and ducks etc.
FUD
@@stickynorth In this context, “FUD” stands for “Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.” It is a term used to describe the act of spreading negative, often exaggerated or unfounded information to influence people’s perceptions. The commenter is implying that the original post is attempting to create unnecessary worry and skepticism about solar farms by listing potential issues that may not be as significant or common as suggested.
You would want to put the panels out of reach of whatever stock you have in the field, so it would cost a bit more on fence posts. Cattle are probably a bad idea, as a tonne of animal can do a lot of damage to a fence, but sheep and goats are probably not too bad.
The fences are much more practical to integrate into farmland whatever you are doing with them. The only issue is that it would be harder to see all the stock in a field.
Rodents will be an issue in any field, and conduits are a standard technology which you will have to install whatever you are doing with the land.
the presentation has a password?... =(
20.44 - wrong calculations. East/West directions can not produce full power during 6 hours. There will be much lower generation. During sunny summer day we have 5-6 PEAK hours in average for optimally angled south facing surface (hope you understand the difference between daylight and peak sun hours). Optimally angled south facing panel will generate way more energy, than vertical bifacial from east/west. Actually, sun energy to vertical East/West is about 50% comparing to 30-40 degrees angled south. But back side of bifacial panel generate in average 50% less power than front side. So, you either lose 25% energy, or need to install 2 one-side panels oriented to east AND west.
good bifacial panels have 85%+ backsides, and the vertical panels do not overheat as much/fast (morning and eveneing peak isnt that hot, better air circulation). Some tests already have shown more annual power (about 10% more) in favorable conditions. For example the panels stay cleaner and any time there is snow they outperform a standard system by far.
Mynorthside get the ball three hours of Sun every morning in the summertime and that's when the sun's just coming up out and then again in the evening when the sun's going down Sun faces on the Northside again give me another 3 hours of sunlight Grandad's Northwest and Northeast.
👍👍
we would need deep underground channels or overhead wires to make use of a solar fence - a 10m length of fence would be around 500v DC - a barbed wire security fence will be required to protect people from the 10,000v fence 😂
Parallel circuit? bahahaha.
Its a great point on the best approach for wiring of solar fences with the long runs. It is an emerging system design, but happening all over the world. Having designed many of fence systems in real fields there are many great solutions. Also, adding distributed energy storage in the field eco-system at key areas can work while also providing power distribution across the farm, for well + pumps, etc.
sunzaun.com/product/
next2sun.com/en/solar-fence/
A sub-electric fence 1-2 ft off the solar fence protects animals and people from interacting with it.
~10% Less power. This webinar is a lie.
Dumbest idea EVER!! Whats the efficiency on these? 10% lolol
Interesting, not sure you watched the video, but the performance is very high especially in a properly designed system that receives EAST-West & South exposure in a regenerative grazing paddock operation. The performance rivals dual axis tracking systems in the generations profile.
@@ButterflyPower a properly designed solor system would have the panels facing the sun at all times during daylight hours.
A dual faced panel has half its cells always facing away from the sun.
By tgat metric alone i dont have to watch this crap.
I get it they pay you we know but we aint dumb.
REALLY 👀🤯