Always a good idea to keep an eye out for asbestos on the older boards. Have come accross is being used as an insulating materal between the board chassis and trunking.
Hi I am so happy you started your own channel As we don’t have to see Jordan lol You have very deep knowledge and you speak better then him Your knowledge is very high and deep Given your background being doing inspection and testing for years Hopefully I love to see more 3 phase boards 3 phase distribution and their connections on the board Also testing 3 phase boards and understanding RCD ARRAIGNMENT and their various types Disconnection time and rating of them Well Thank you so much ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Very interesting learning history side of things, as a apprentice I find your videos very educational and appreciate you taking the time to upload them! 👍👍
Love these videos. Come across all sorts working in the pubs. Came across a federal electric RCD in a Volvo truck factory the other day. Could you imagine the cost of one of those on eBay! 😅
At southampton uni in the late 80s, we had hundreds of the FE stablok boards, never saw ONE connection go bad. the same design of board was used in the US under the federal pacific electric brand, they were made to a really stupid US standard that didn't require a magnetic disconnect, and got a really bad name, but the busbar connections never failed, to my knowledge. Similarly i've never seen a starbreaker go bad When i was a YTS lad at aforementioned uni, Merlin Gerin was the new hot stuff, so you're right about dating them
The correct orientation of the breakers on these boards is with the coloured band nearest the centre i.e. the switch lever is towards the centre for ON. The C45N breakers normally leave a bit of busbar on show, that's just how they were. CGD (Before they had anything to do with Lewden) made some copies that were a good fit and had the same issue. The C60 breakers came out with the later Isobar boards which had the slide switches to isolate the individual MCB ways. The later Schneider breakers would fit better if turned around the correct orientation.
Also, it's normal for three phase boards to have the isolator only switch the phases unless it's on a TT system where you'd fit a four pole isolator. I believe the reason was to avoid the risk of a failure mode whereby the neutral got switched off but the phases didn't. Neutral loss is a bad thing causing single phase appliances to blow up if the load isn't perfectly balanced.
The open closed problem is real as they haven't removed the stickers saying what way around open and closed are at the bottom! Had a customer really confused by this and said a breaker was on when it was off, I went out to look at why a potwash wasn't working and it was just a tripped breaker caused by a single phase power cut.
They’ve just installed them backwards (the new ones). There’s no reason for them to be in the board backwards since they’re just comb rails in regular cage terminals, same as on the outboard side. As far as I can see from this video. There’s no safety issues with that *apart* from the switches going the wrong way, but… should still be fixed since it’s easy.
@JasperJanssen so I had a closer look and the 3871 one's have the din rail release on the opposite end to the 60898 one's. So if they put them in the correct way it would be near impossible to release the mcb from the din rail. So I can only assume that was the reason for fitting them the opposite way 🙃 makes a headache to work on though!
That Fedral Panel, IIRC they use a proprietary connection to the bus bars called a Stablok, they’re banned in the states and I would be pushing for a board change on that one
Old federal electric - I always remember as an apprentice the guy I was working with told me to press the yellow test buttons on the RCBOs I pressed one and the breaker exploded and took out a 80A HRC in a switch fuse. Mind you that being said I had the same more recently with a MEM 3. In my opinion the MEM2 is the best 3p board ever made. Shame they have gone the way they have.
No flash guard over the neutral bar on older TPNs there was of course no reg or reason to fit one when these were manufactured some places wouldn't even allow you to take the front cover off without isolating the board first
@Riggersa Yea the American DBs look real old and industrial looking compared to our stuff. But I prefer the chunky mcbs in the old Federal Electric DB. Feels like you're switching something important lol
Number arrangement doesn't matter provided it is clearly identified on the equipment. As to rationale for upping safety - it was down to people getting seriously hurt and even killed.
One of the main reasons things got "safer" - and more standardised - was that industry went from employing it's own technicians to using external contractors... For a long time, most industrial sites had their own plumbers/mechanics/sparks etc. who trained their own apprentices - so they learned what to do and NOT to do SPECIFICALLY for the stuff they'd likely spend their entire life working-on - they inherited systems and developed them personally - 'safety' came from familiarity, not from safety devices and stickers The move away from 'in house' technical staff created a need to train people to work on a MUCH wider range of systems and setups and so there became a need to standardize - as much to keep costs low, you don't want someone spending hours just figuring things out (yes, money ahead of safety!!) Always worth remembering that early electrical installations were entirely UNINSULATED - they literally ran bare copper into light fittings in people's houses - we've come a long way...
Its sad really. Back in the day, it wouldn’t have been seen as a huge issue to fully isolate the DB before working. Now everyone expects everything to be still working and will not pay out of hours working to enable shutdown to allow safe working
One of the older Merlin breakers looks to be the wrong way around too. They don't fit well the wrong way round due to position of the terminals being different at the top and bottom.
There is no debate for the sequencing of phases on a TYPE B distribution board. House bashers /part P 2 week training and I'm a spark hobbies applying domestic circuit scheduling to Commercial industrial just shows they are a danger and potentially lethal.
@richardcawrey I'm not sure why they decided the colours but I prefer the old colours. I find it far easier to distinguish each phase on the old system. The new colours are very similar on a dark site connecting something up.
@@John_Faultlessagree with you 100% I was in talk with JRM about this and said someone should be in court as they should never ever of been changed completely incompetent in the first place.
@metrotechguru5863 mate it's when it changes lenses zooming in and out when it makes me feel sick 🤢😂 it's run and gun filming on a phone but it'll try keeping it smoother 🫡
@@John_Faultless No problem. Nothing I would leave the channel for. Acting like an arrogant prick, firing half the staff and generally being out of touch IS something I would leave a channel for. 🤣🤣🤣
Always a good idea to keep an eye out for asbestos on the older boards. Have come accross is being used as an insulating materal between the board chassis and trunking.
As an apprentice, just wanna say your videos are gems and mega helpful. Cheers again John
Hi
I am so happy you started your own channel
As we don’t have to see Jordan lol
You have very deep knowledge and you speak better then him
Your knowledge is very high and deep
Given your background being doing inspection and testing for years
Hopefully I love to see more 3 phase boards
3 phase distribution and their connections on the board
Also testing 3 phase boards and understanding RCD ARRAIGNMENT and their various types
Disconnection time and rating of them
Well
Thank you so much
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Very interesting learning history side of things, as a apprentice I find your videos very educational and appreciate you taking the time to upload them! 👍👍
@jamess9902 cheers mate 👊
Another fascinating video. Thank you. Keep them coming.
@De_Chaos cheers mate 👊
Love these videos. Come across all sorts working in the pubs. Came across a federal electric RCD in a Volvo truck factory the other day. Could you imagine the cost of one of those on eBay! 😅
At southampton uni in the late 80s, we had hundreds of the FE stablok boards, never saw ONE connection go bad.
the same design of board was used in the US under the federal pacific electric brand, they were made to a really stupid US standard that didn't require a magnetic disconnect, and got a really bad name, but the busbar connections never failed, to my knowledge. Similarly i've never seen a starbreaker go bad
When i was a YTS lad at aforementioned uni, Merlin Gerin was the new hot stuff, so you're right about dating them
AND now i feel old
I love your humour John and followed you from that sinking channel can't think of name, chap that went on massive holiday
The correct orientation of the breakers on these boards is with the coloured band nearest the centre i.e. the switch lever is towards the centre for ON. The C45N breakers normally leave a bit of busbar on show, that's just how they were. CGD (Before they had anything to do with Lewden) made some copies that were a good fit and had the same issue. The C60 breakers came out with the later Isobar boards which had the slide switches to isolate the individual MCB ways. The later Schneider breakers would fit better if turned around the correct orientation.
Also, it's normal for three phase boards to have the isolator only switch the phases unless it's on a TT system where you'd fit a four pole isolator. I believe the reason was to avoid the risk of a failure mode whereby the neutral got switched off but the phases didn't. Neutral loss is a bad thing causing single phase appliances to blow up if the load isn't perfectly balanced.
Love this video John keep them going
Hi John another great and interesting video always look forward to them
Just subscribed and was wondering why you left Artisan.
The open closed problem is real as they haven't removed the stickers saying what way around open and closed are at the bottom! Had a customer really confused by this and said a breaker was on when it was off, I went out to look at why a potwash wasn't working and it was just a tripped breaker caused by a single phase power cut.
They’ve just installed them backwards (the new ones). There’s no reason for them to be in the board backwards since they’re just comb rails in regular cage terminals, same as on the outboard side. As far as I can see from this video.
There’s no safety issues with that *apart* from the switches going the wrong way, but… should still be fixed since it’s easy.
@@JasperJanssen they are on the wrong way around for all the breakers on the board I was talking about....
@JasperJanssen so I had a closer look and the 3871 one's have the din rail release on the opposite end to the 60898 one's. So if they put them in the correct way it would be near impossible to release the mcb from the din rail. So I can only assume that was the reason for fitting them the opposite way 🙃 makes a headache to work on though!
That Fedral Panel, IIRC they use a proprietary connection to the bus bars called a Stablok, they’re banned in the states and I would be pushing for a board change on that one
The Federal fuseboard was called stablok as the circuit breakers literally pushed into a slot & locked onto the busbar
Old federal electric - I always remember as an apprentice the guy I was working with told me to press the yellow test buttons on the RCBOs I pressed one and the breaker exploded and took out a 80A HRC in a switch fuse. Mind you that being said I had the same more recently with a MEM 3. In my opinion the MEM2 is the best 3p board ever made. Shame they have gone the way they have.
No flash guard over the neutral bar on older TPNs there was of course no reg or reason to fit one when these were manufactured some places wouldn't even allow you to take the front cover off without isolating the board first
that 70s one looks like a brand spankers new American board
@Riggersa Yea the American DBs look real old and industrial looking compared to our stuff. But I prefer the chunky mcbs in the old Federal Electric DB. Feels like you're switching something important lol
Not 70s I these were made up until at least 88 / 1990
Nice video bud, I’d agree that some of those breakers are definitely the wrong way round
The Schneider Ic60 are inverted on this Db !! May this is why they stick out 😮😮
Number arrangement doesn't matter provided it is clearly identified on the equipment. As to rationale for upping safety - it was down to people getting seriously hurt and even killed.
meanwhile here old gG ceramic fuses with out 3phase system without any rcds and been doing fine for 40 years
One of the main reasons things got "safer" - and more standardised - was that industry went from employing it's own technicians to using external contractors...
For a long time, most industrial sites had their own plumbers/mechanics/sparks etc. who trained their own apprentices - so they learned what to do and NOT to do SPECIFICALLY for the stuff they'd likely spend their entire life working-on - they inherited systems and developed them personally - 'safety' came from familiarity, not from safety devices and stickers
The move away from 'in house' technical staff created a need to train people to work on a MUCH wider range of systems and setups and so there became a need to standardize - as much to keep costs low, you don't want someone spending hours just figuring things out (yes, money ahead of safety!!)
Always worth remembering that early electrical installations were entirely UNINSULATED - they literally ran bare copper into light fittings in people's houses - we've come a long way...
Its sad really. Back in the day, it wouldn’t have been seen as a huge issue to fully isolate the DB before working. Now everyone expects everything to be still working and will not pay out of hours working to enable shutdown to allow safe working
@SME_Ste Very true mate. Clients expect miracles with their installations these days......
Do C45 series and then the later C60 series connect the other way around as there is some anomaly on rhs with the orange markings
The 2 schneider`s are fitted the wrong way round
One of the older Merlin breakers looks to be the wrong way around too. They don't fit well the wrong way round due to position of the terminals being different at the top and bottom.
There is no debate for the sequencing of phases on a TYPE B distribution board. House bashers /part P 2 week training and I'm a spark hobbies applying domestic circuit scheduling to Commercial industrial just shows they are a danger and potentially lethal.
That looks familiar.
Wonder if it’s the prime colours ie red yellow blue
@richardcawrey I'm not sure why they decided the colours but I prefer the old colours. I find it far easier to distinguish each phase on the old system. The new colours are very similar on a dark site connecting something up.
@@John_Faultlessagree with you 100% I was in talk with JRM about this and said someone should be in court as they should never ever of been changed completely incompetent in the first place.
Those breakers fit on both ways, and whoever fitted them has done them the wrong way round
Left to right for numbering IMO. Bottom up is absolute heresy. Jamie's way is ok but I'd rather stick with what I know and "the norm".
Interesting comparison of those boards. Mate, you need to move your camera a little more smoothly. Otherwise, we get seasick watching your vids. 🤣🤣🤣
@metrotechguru5863 mate it's when it changes lenses zooming in and out when it makes me feel sick 🤢😂 it's run and gun filming on a phone but it'll try keeping it smoother 🫡
@@John_Faultless No problem. Nothing I would leave the channel for. Acting like an arrogant prick, firing half the staff and generally being out of touch IS something I would leave a channel for. 🤣🤣🤣
Sound a bit rough , only sound ?
@@Actual_electrical_content 😂😂😂
You look familiar????
@@electricalsolutionse4ltd700 pound shop Vsauce mate 😂