Smokey Joe:The Basics
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- Опубліковано 22 гру 2021
- Best known as perhaps the fastest model railway locomotive in the west, the original "Smokey Joe" was a member of the Caledonian Railway's 264 Class. Designed by Dugald Drummond and built in batches between 1885 and 1908, 24 were built in total. The most famous was the St Rollox Works Shunter, BR 56025 built in 1890 and scrapped in 1960 which became the basis for Hornby's famous model in 1980.
Music "Highland Cathedral" by Ulrich Roever and Michael Korb. Played by Anthony Dawson.
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I got a Smokey Joe for Christmas in the mid 90's. I've still got it and it still runs
The 'Pocket Rocket' is a classic little design that I think may have been many people's first exposure to model railways, and possibly 'real' railways in general. We have much to thank Drummond for!
Even though he's not around now,Smokey Joe will always be remembered as a legendary powerful tank engine
There's another Caledonian railway class, the 498, that's been a staple of miniature steam loco modelling for many years in the form of the 3 1/2" gauge rob Roy design by Martin Evans. Not as widely known and popular as the Hornby smokey Joe but certainly extremely well known as far as miniature railways go 😁
I really like the organ arrangement of Highland Cathedral you played, it's interesting to find out you have an interest in music as well. It also really worked with the topic. If only Smokey Joe was preserved...
Thanks. I'm a musician - I studied at Music College and studied the organ very seriously at my local Cathedral.
The fact that that Smokey Joe portrays a real loco was well known to me as a Scottish railway enthusiast, and the Caledonian pugs had a very long and purposeful life.
As late as the 1950s they served industrial sidings, works and docks in Dundee, Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh to name a few places, before the small type 0 diesel shunters took over.
Smokey Joe is in my collection, and it is planned to replace the mechanism with a scratch built one with a good motor/gearbox and Allan Gibson wheels, and detail/repaint the body.
Than I also bodge me one of these "tenders", they can be made from scale timber as they were almost entirely of wooden construction apart from W-irons, pulling gear and strapping.
I need to dig mine out and see what can be doen with it. I'd love to see an O Gauge version of one. One of these and a couple of waggons pottering around. Marvellous.
Do any photos of the actual Smokey Joe exist? Do you know where he worked? Thanks.
@@denzel270probably around Glasgow
Bloody hell, Anthony.... I forgot that damn whistle again. LOL, when you said "264-Class" I was looking at the wheel arrangement and thinking what the .... is Anthony on about, that's an 0-4-0. And no, I haven't been drinking alcohol. Season's Greeting to you and Ginger. All the best. 👍
Same here; 2-6-4, did they rebuild them? Oh, wait, class number. Glad to see some one the other side of the Pond had the same thought.😃
Also Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from Northern California.
@@delurkor I was also thinking of an ‘Adriatic’ at first.
What a cool little Tank Engine. The locomotive just has an iconic name for me.
That was a gem of a presentation! I am just starting my grandson on the road to railway modelling with that very locomotive! I never realised Smokey Joe was based on an actual loco. When you introduced it as 264 class I was thinking “Where’s the rest of the wheels?” Tragic that the St Rollox works engine was scrapped. I bet it was always in tip-top condition. Thank you for a very enlightening piece!
My pleasure.
The rest of it’s wheels don’t exist. The chassis is 0-4-0 but the *class* is “264”
I read further now I feel dumbfounded.
I always thought that the 'Pug' nickname was a contraction of 'pugnacious, conveying the sense of these engines determindly marshalling and moving wagons around with a barking exhaust. Pugnacious would also describe the character of Dugald Drummond, who paid the ultimate price for his aggressive self-belief by refusing anaethesia for the amputation of a gangrenous foot and dying of surgical shock.
Yes, I well remember C.Hamilton Ellis's description of his demise, having been out for a walk, taking a chill and ordering near-scalding water poured into his foot bath. Gangrene set in and the rest is history.
The Baltimore and Ohio railroad over here in the states had a similar little 0-4-0 known as the C-16 that became a favorite among model railroad companies as a starter set engine. Funnily enough two of the actual engines also got rebuilt into tender engines just like the Pugs.
Wouldn’t really call attaching a tender by knocking down the front of a coal wagon a proper rebuilt if I’m being totally honest
And we called the C16’s Little Joe!
OHIO REPRESENT!
I enjoying watching real stories I’ve been into steam train since I was a kid
Big fan of little 0-4-0 shunters.
I can't thank you enough for finally shedding some light onto this class, I'm so tired hearing people say this loco was a fictional thing 🙄
Any chance we're gonna hear about the 101s and Welsh D Class? It would be nice to hear more about them and have some light shone on them
This is one of the two locos I want for my model railway, the other been black 5
Another cracking video mate,
A great song choice with ‘Highland Cathedral’ a personal favourite of mine.
Merry Christmas all.
my best mate had the model of Smokey Joe, up on his toy shelve with all his britt allcroft thomas the tank engine models.
he liked it, because his name was Joe!
He was also suprised and happy, when i used a "Torkoal", in a Pokemon Game, and gave it the nickname "Smokey Joe", in honour of his favourite model train!
Top notch production as always.
I instantly recognised Highland Cathedral, and a lovely organ cover by you. Merry Christmas, Anthony!
Thankyou :-) You too Jonatan!
and a merry christmas too you both! :)
Happy Xmas.Thanks.
Always good content and an addition to your excellent books.
Thank you very much!!
Thank you for continously providing high quality content that will continue to enthrall and educate new and old railway enthusiasts alike. Always a joy seeing you've uploaded a new video, happy holidays!
Thank you very much! And you too!
Thank you for all your efforts this year; every one has been a pleasure to watch and listen. Looking forward to learning a lot more from you next year!
Thank you so much!
Another tremendous production, musical accompaniment included. Thank you so much and hope you enjoy a marvellous Christmas!
Thank you! You too!
Thank you for your efforts Anthony. I really look forward to these lessons in steam history and am disappointed when I don't get my weekly fix! I wish you and everyone on the channel a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Thankyou John. That's really appreciated, thankyou. Merry Christmas to you too
Absolutely lovely, the tiny little shunter looks absolutely stunning. At first I thought they were identical to those 2 yellow shunting engines from that railroad cartoon which will not be mentioned here.
You didn't mention the variant of Dugald Drummond's design for the Caledonian, the Killin Pugs. Two of these 0-4-2STs (class 262) were built in 1885 to work the short branch line from Killin Junction to Killin and Loch Tay. I don't know if these carried the blue passenger livery but they would have qualified for it; the standard 0-4-0STs would always have been painted black.
I made a Killin 042 from the hornby loco. Lots of cutting and shutting but worth it. How do I get a photo on here?
Another fantastic story. Merri Christmas to you and all the viewers.
And also with you!
Background music is beautiful as always
Thankyou! :)
Surprising story for a continental enthusiast!
Also a Merry Christmas to you. Many greetings from Germany.
I remember seeing one of these go over shap fell with 13 mark 1s in tow doing at least 450mph. Such a sight
They had to stop using them however for this because when reaching the summit it would usually leave the tracks and end up landing in a nearby field
If only Doc Brown had used one of these! He woulldn't have struggled to have reached 88.
Merry X-mas Mr. Dawson :D
Thankyou. And you too, Gerhard.
You failed to mention how it’s was capable of doing 900mph! Hahah.
Lovely video, once again :)
😅
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Same to you! Thankyou
A sixties School friend with German parents living in Australia along with me called his 0-6-0T models Pug engines, both Marklin and Triang.
So interesting how the term spread to him but hard to track down other than the term travelled widely.
Interesting video
I have 3 of hornby locos
In 3 different liveries including cr blue / yellow ncb / smokey joe too
Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you and your family
Keep safe arp
Anthony,that little 0-4-0t,marked for the L&Y,was also known as a pug! They operated on the Liverpool docks,under the Liverpool Overhead Railway,an interesting operation 🤔! A video was produced on the LOR,and showed them in operation! In the US,the Pennsylvania had Class A-5's,operating on the Philadelphia docks,which had particularly tight clearances! These were also 0-4-0's,but were tender classes! The New York Central,and the New Haven,operated Shay and Climax,geared locomotives,respectively in New York,and Boston,and the New Haven engines were run under the Atlantic Avenue Elevated[Boston],serving the dock areas! That would give you at least two more videos,that would prove to be interesting 😉! Thank you,and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 😊! Happy hunting!! Thank you for your diligence and persistence!! 😇 🚂🚂🚂🚂🚂😇😇😇😇🎅🎅🎅🎅🎅🎅👼👼👼👼👼
Thanks for the video very interesting I have the Smokey Joe pocket rocket.Hopecyou have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Stay safe.
Thankyou, and you too Richard. Be well, be safe, be merry.
Smokey Joe goes back to when I was eight years old
Thankyou for this video! Nobody has ever done a spotlight on the Caledonian pug.
Please do the Dalowis D class tank engine if you can!
A shame no example was preserved, now the type is iconic with the Smokey Joe model. I have an example.
With Hornby having a full sized A4 on display, it would be great if a full sized static replica of 56025 could be built to go in there too.
It would be an achievable new build loco. And a really well known prototype.
I do hope those spare ten that McIntosh build were a typo and they didn't disappear into the ether.
I love your use of organ music by the way, fits you and the rather Gothic environments these locomotives must have worked in perfectly.
It is indeed.
Gotta love Victorian era words, is it bad only now I learn they weren't named after the dogs?
It has been a pleasure watching your videos, they are always interesting and, like this video, very informative. I had no idea that the Hornby pug was based on anything real or that their was an actual Smokey Joe. Now I know. I am quite taken with the Caledonian livery, I must think about adding something to my collection. Always something to spend money on 😄. All the very best of the season to you and Ginger and thank you for all the videos.
Thank you very much! The Caledonian Livery is absolutely gorgeous. You won't regret having a Caley loco in your collection.
You may find the Cale version surprisingly expensive - they are very highly sought after by collectors now, not surprisingly as it was beautifully done.
I, like you Pauline had no idea that my little Hornby 0-4-0 was based on anything real. I stopped the video and got mine out to compare the pictures to the loco. The model is surprisingly good. I shall hold it in higher esteem from now on.
Regards, David.
@@trainsontuesday Yes, to think we doubted Hornby, I might buy one now.
Anthony, you won‘t believe, i have it! The blue version of CR by Hornby. Once bought via ebay UK. Normally not available in Germany. It‘s predistined for larger scales/gauges, best as live steam model. Best regards, Thomas
Very cool!
Ok I can't help but find it funny that when I played monster hunter world I named my character Scrapped Loco and named my cat companion Smokey Jones. And I had no idea about this locomotive
I kept hearing about this engine and always wondered what was it’s significance. Now I know.
Thank you and Ginger the cat for your hard work in 2021! It would be nice if you could get the burned out motor rewound - shame to see such a model laying dead !
I dont have an OO gauge layout any more: N gauge and 16mm live steam. It'd just be a shelf queen.
Not my first 00 Gauge loco, but I remember my Aunt brought me one back when she visited London(I'm a yank lol)
I love your videos. Fascinating to learn about these earliest days of steam and these individual engines. I live in Glenfield, near Leicester, not far from the Leicester & Swannington Railway, with its defunct inclines and tunnel. I've read a little about the opening of the railway in 1832 and have read that its first locomotive was Comet. However, I've not found any information on this and the other earlier locomotives other than a collision with a farmer's cart at one of the level crossings. I wonder, would you consider doing a video about Comet and the L & S?
Merry Christmas.
The collision you mention brought about the invention of the steam whistle for locomotives too.
The collision never happened! It's the figment of the imagination of Mr Clement E. Stretton whose approach to history was "make it up". It's a fiction, a fabrication.
ua-cam.com/video/dxKqZSa-1HY/v-deo.html
"Comet" was a bog-standard "Samson" Class locomotive, a development of the "Planet" Class of October 1830. As I show in my video on the Steam Whistle, the collision with a farmer's cart never happened. And I'm also very doubtful about "Comet" losing its chimney in a collision in the Glenfield Tunnel. They both stem from the pen of Clement E Stretton. A "historian" who was thought to be a major authority at the time he was alive, but in fact simply made things up to suit himself and his own agenda. He claimed that all the Leicester & Swannington archive had been burned - well it wasn't. He made things up, and to cover his own tracks, he lied and kept on lying. The incident with the level crossing cannot be traced in any of the newspapers or even in the L&S Board Minutes and such an incident would be recorded. Same as the chimney striking the tunnel roof. Stretton even made up, invented, drawings showing old locomotives. He was a very odd man. Sadly much of what he has written has entered railway folklore and become accepted as "fact" despite having no basis in it. :(
ua-cam.com/video/dxKqZSa-1HY/v-deo.html
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory Well, well,well. I find that rather sad. I have read in a number books about this and I'm certain I have seen it discussed in a TV documentary. The really sad thing is it is so plausible. But then legends are. Thank you for your enlightenment. I agree that some record would been made given the level of public interest at the time, similar to today's HS2. This is the first of your programs I've seen, and I've subbed to catch up with some more. Thank you for sharing what you do.
@@robertbate5790 Happy to have you along, but sorry to have disapppointed you as well. Yeah, the story of the accident on the level crossing leading to the invention of the steam whistle is...hocum. Given the damage to property recorded in Stretton's story, you'd have thought it would have been reported to the Board for them to assess any claim and liabilities....and also record their order to produce a means of audible warning. As you say, Stretton's story is plausible. And indeed, once a mistake is in print, then it's often impossible to demolish even with primary sources - or lack thereof!
You should do a video on Box tanks there pretty rare and I don't see a lot of people talking about them
Merry Christmas dude (if you celebrate that) p.s. great video
Someone recounted, in a long ago 'Railway Modeller' of seeing a sign on one of the east coast Scottish dock railways, reading 'Look out for the pug engine'. It seems to have been a widespread northern term.
Ted Polet, a well known OO9 modeller mounted a Hornby 'Caley' on an N gauge chassis and added a tender, making a rather large 2 foot gauge loco - that inspired me to do the same, but with a TT mechanism, which looks better balanced. If anyone asks at shows, I say it is what St Rolox might have produced had the Caley been responsible for running the Campbletown & Macrihannish line..... Does anyone else remember (or have) a Hambling 'Gnat', which was the 1950's forerunner of the Hornby loco?
Rev Teddy Boston also had a big ginger cat, which he called 'Magnificat!' A lovely film, thanks, and a very merry Christmas to you.
And you too
Thank you for your well presented video. Drummond actually had very little to do with the design. The G class was a copy of Nielson and Co's standard four wheel shunter and, together with those built by NBL, several survive. The NB (railway company, not the similarly named loco builder) and the CR made only minor changes to suit their needs.
Great informative video for those who do not know the history of the 264 class and just assume that Smokey Joe must be a ficticious locomotive. The latest China-made versions run beautifully compared to the early Margate ones. Pocket rockets . . . and alas pocket money prices . . . no longer.
A therory I have about the nickname ‘pug’ coming from Pugilist might have something to do with outside cylinders being quite uncommon during the period, So pugs’ having a punching motion as going along might have some truth to it.
The lateral oscillation of an outside cylinder loco with a heavy load as each cylinder takes the steam is called "boxing". One side punching forward then the other. The loco oscillating from side to side.
Smokie Joe taught Minnie the Moocher how to kick the gong around.
Have a few hornby models of these engines they fantastic 😁😁😁
Yes they are!
I got a Hornby model of this engine.
I think everyone must have had at some point :-)
Merry Xmas ant
Thanks greg.
Fab...
May I suggest the Oregon pony as a future subject
hi great video, have 3 pugs which are great especialy in the caledonian blue.,good for shunting if the correct controller is used
Thanks for the tip! I'll have to see if I can resurrect mine.
cool
This is one of those locomotive that somehow went faster than a jet aircraft in train sims
Am I the only one who noticed that this episode’s title, and the last episode title in “The Basics” have been improperly formatted?
to be honest, 56025 is my favourite member of the 264 class saddle tanks
Maybe you should talk to Sam's Trains, see if he can help get your little pug restored, or at least give you tips on how to do it.
My first ho scale was one of these too but mine is in the Caledonian blue
All the Hornby models of this were OO scale at 1:76 but all HO gauge at 16.5 mm gauge.
The UK standard for what look like HO trains
Hornbys smokey joe was real😱
Its seems from the attached background story , from Simon Kohler of Hornby on his favourite locomotive , describing the events of circa 1982, that we can thank nameless Glasgow shunting yard rail workers for the name Smokey Joe and then this being suggested to Simon Kohler by the owner of Railmail of Glasgow and Watford Jim Weir. Jim Weir recalling a shunting locomotive with that name chalked on the side and that that would be a good selling point for a newly stripped down, sub ten quid model (lined up for you) :
ua-cam.com/video/imrYCXzvb2Q/v-deo.html
Hornby staff then came up with the type face lettering style and Simon Kohler saying his extra contribution after getting the Jim Weir suggestion underway was specifying the addition of the E to Smoky.
Railmail being a very large shop and railway mail order business in the seventies to eighties period. At the time of the model introduction I vaguely remember reading in the model press at the time that the name had a basis in fact.
Maybe there is a photo somewhere, but then again the published railway photographers may have looked down on that addition as vandalism and seek out pristine examples like your leading photo. I would imagine railway management would be only interested in punishing the miscreant staff. Might hard to search for , being swamped with model photos.
I expect if it was purely a Hornby invention then they would be taking more of the credit.
Smoke joe
Wow.
Can you please make a video on the A&P locomotives (The Blue Circle , Siripite , Sir Vincent or Sydenham ) please i am ery interested in these locomotives!
The first of many modlers
Any plans on making stpeny the blue bell engine ?
Regarding the Smokey Joe engine, I wonder if it's possible to give it a coach called Minnie.
And ooooo the snoooo (McGooagle theme)
And the wind which blows over the Kenneth Moores of a winter time arghgg
My favorite tank engine of all time.
That's it. That's the comment.
2:48 "boiler pressure was later raised to 150psi making this making these little engines powerful" and very VERY fast? "for their size."
hahahahahaahaha!
Well I don't know much about railway history, but I really doubt that the 'pug' term for small shunters etc came from 'pugilist'. Surely it came from pug dogs, small animals of various breeds (apparently originating in China and coming to Europe/Britain in the 17th/18th centuries), sturdy and powerful for their size. The origin of the name of the dog itself is a little unsure, but doesn't come as a derivation from 'pugnacious', rather more likely from 'puck' meaning 'elf' or 'imp'. 'Pugnacious' comes of course from the Latin 'pugnare' meaning 'to fight', and various other Latin words having the same stem, such as 'pugil' meaning a boxer.
Did any of these locos get Smokey Joe unofficially chalked on as a name or was Smokey Joe just a Hornby invention.
Another creative name change by railway staff recorded on the GWR loco COMET was to add IN before the C and AX after the T to give it a new unofficial name on the nameplate. Created some mirth in the twenties according to J N Maskelene.
It's simply an affectation of Hornby. It was never carried in reality. Photographs show the St Rollox shunter always immaculately turned out in BR lined black.
What do you think smokey Joe thinks of?
Haggis and neeps.
What's is this loco top speed?
Some would argue that it's enough to break the sound barrier 😂🤣
For the original loco? 25mph, if that.
so hornby's smoky joe was real
very much so! And crying out for a replica :-)
Blimey, imagine having your most famous locomotive known as Smokey Joe, must be sad.
RIP your model’s engine
Interesting, I'm surprised at where the Pug term comes from. I thought it was from the Pug dog, being small and ugly lol
You should be able to buy a new motor for ot
What part of the World does the narrator of this video come from?
From Yorkshire
You keep talking about 4-6-2 loco on this video a mistake I think
It's the class number not wheel arrangement
I thought it was named after the breed of dog.
I think smokey Joe is a 0-4-0 not a 2-6-4
But it belongs to the 264 Class :-)
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory wait wat
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory ????????
@@Trainfan1563 The locomotive has four wheels, an 0-4-0 but the name of the class to which it belongs is the 264 Class.
That's not 264, that's a 0-4-0 ;-)
Aaaahahh! I see what you did there :P (just imagine a 2-6-4 long boi version... )
We'll the G&SWR 4-6-4Ts were apparently sometimes called "Big Pugs'.
That whiny organ background music is ungodly annoying.