Another point about Gnomeferatu: Sometimes you mill their combo piece. But the vast majority of the time you just get them one card closer to their combo piece.
You still hurt their ability to slow down the game, which is usually what the rest of the deck is geared towards. plus anything that could draw them more then one card is a net gain for you.
None of you thought about the most powerful thing about Gnomeferatu. He gives you information what your opponent cannot draw. You burn Polymorph - you know your opponent cannot draw his second one ever.
I am actually surprised that basically noone thought about the same thing as me... it's quite sad even the top competetive players doesn't see this. But I suppose Kibler will see the potential. He's one of the players good at seeing all sides, not tunnel vision like Trump.
Alex Jorgson im a magic player, and i was confused why warlock got such a bad card, when they are in such a need of good cards, but everybody else said it was amazing, so i began doubting myself until i noticed the basicly equal votes with malchazaar. :)
how to fix Gnomeferatu: Battlecry: Discover a card from your opponents deck and discard it. This way it actually has a decent chance of getting something useful, and it lets you remove cards you actually want to remove, instead of having a chance of removing your opponents bad cards
I don't know about unplayable: in most matchups, there are certain key cards that have a significant effect on winrate. Discover gives you a reasonable chance to hit one of those. Probably still not a *good* card, but probably not awful.
That is definetly too op and it will never happen. Gnomeferatu right now has a chance of 1/26, your version is 3/26 and the chance gets higher as the game progress to destory something essential. Have we not learned from Drakonid Operative how op is ability to choose from opponents deck?
Nah I think the best way to make this card good would be for the text to say "The next card your opponent draws is discarded." This way it discards a card from their deck, and also negates their draw for that turn. It'd probably have to be a legendary for that though lol
Warlock doesn't have any other mill-supporting cards. If it starts getting more "remove cards from opponents library" effects then sure, then we can talk about Gnomeferatu. Or if Vampiric Tutor type effects start existing (so you can snipe them). As it stands, the body is Arena playable and the effect is something like a 3/26 that you'll hit something relevant.
If you want to know exactly why is gnomish vampire bad, consider this: There is no "top card of enemy deck". Discarding a top card is equivalent of discarding a bottom card. So yes, you discard a Tirion, but that would have been their last card anyway. So the card actually reads: If your opponent draws last card of their deck, they draw their first fatigue card instead Which is actually pretty good in fatigue decks. But then I have to ask: You are playing high-value super-control fatigue deck, what is 2 mana 2/3 doing there Also, my favourite comment on this page could be paraphrased as: 1 in 30, you discard their Tirion, all other times, you put them one draw closer to Tirion by discarding a non-Tirion. (The same for combo deck, most of the time, you just discard one of the filler cards and make their deck smaller, thus making drawing the whole deck easier)
I don't say the card is broken or even that it will for sure see any play in constructed, but i dont think the effect is as bad as it seems. In a lot of decks (non aggro decks) you want MOST of the cards in your deck, that is the reason why you put two of them in your decks to begin with, You want two spike rigged steeds, you want two alley armorsmiths, you want (and some times need) two copies of whatever AoE you are running. Whatever you hit with this card not only has half the chances even being drawn, you KNOW that if it is used once you won't see it again in the future. It is very hard to quantify the value in this effect , but the fact that you are not risking anything by playing the card gives me some hope for it.
An Archbishop Benedictus deck could be based on a heavy cycle anti / aggro deck that draws most of its deck within a few turns and then refuels with Archbishop Benedictus.
What if you are playing an aggro deck also? what if you are playing a heavy cycle aggro deck that plays cheap spells and minions to clear the board and cycle thru your deck, at the rate of 2 time to 3 time that of your opponent and once you hit the tail end of your deck and you have cleared the board and your opponent has no cards in hand you copy their deck and continue to draw the remaining draw cards you have. Saying a card is bad cause it is dead vs X deck is not a good reason, that is called a tech card and most decks run them, they will always be dead vs the deck they are not meant for. I bet a few aggro cycle draw Priest decks will pop up whose plan is board control while cycling for that board control and refueling with the opponents last 15 to 10 cards while having some cycle left over for the win. And vs control it is the same plan you flood the board and cycle, force your opponent to use the cards in their hand and they draw to answer you until you get low on cards and then refuel with their deck and some left over cycle cards for the win.
The thing is, my friend... This is the Priest legendary. so "what if you are playing an aggro deck also?" its automatically invalidated. Plus 7 Mana 4/6 aggro deck wont happen
Trump, I just want to clarify one thing. Gnomeferatu's effect ONLY does something if your opponent goes to fatigue. Milling an enemys combo piece doesn't matter. Say the chance that you milled your opponents combo piece is 1/20, for example. Then there is a 1/20 chance that that particular combo piece is at the bottom of the deck. Hitting a combo piece with Gnomeferatu is insta win = Opponent being unlucky and having their combo piece at the bottom of their deck is also insta win, UNLESS your opponent actually pulls all cards and goes to fatigue. I'm just posting this because it seemed like you thought the discard effect was useful in two different situations, when it's actually ONLY when your opponent goes to fatigue.
Your logic is incorrect - in the case when you play gnomeferatu, there is still a probability that their combo piece is on the bottom of their deck. Situation 1: the top card of your opponent's deck is a combo piece - You play gnomeferatu and mill it, or you don't play gnomeferatu and they draw it. Situation 2: The bottom card of your opponent's deck is a combo piece. You play gnomeferatu or you don't, your opponent still doesn't draw the combo piece.
Combo decks win all the time by having their final piece of the combo be the bottom of their deck. They draw their deck. This is the small benefit of Gnomish Vampire.
Gnomeferatu can either disrupt a combo, or, which is more probable, just help to get the combo faster (as there are usualy very little combo pieces). It may remove a draw card to sort of come out neutral.
For Thrall, I feel like the better play is the turn 6 dopple + evolve, following up with turn 7 Thrall + hero power, or 2 mana critter + thrall. Seems like he's more a follow-up to an already powerful combo.
@Trump I'm a warlock main, I hope they make a card that says "shuffle all cards discarded into your deck". It has the potential to help bring warlock back into standered
The thing people aren't understanding about Gnomeferatu is that yes, it can make your opponent mill something important, but if that all-important board clear or whatever was the SECOND top then you're just making them draw it one turn earlier instead, and that has just as much chance of happening.
Embrace Darkness - The stronger the effect it's likely to have. The more likely you lose before it takes effect. ON THE PLUS SIDE HOWEVER 4 attack removal. Priest can now remove Primordial Drake / Nether Drake / Ysera ect without 10 mana. Although Ysera could just blow herself up, and also will get 2 cards value by the time its dealt with.
Lengarion you have to force yourself to have the doomhammer in your deck, and you have to play the doomhammer first meaning you're not playing your 4 drop until turn 6 at which point it's just slightly above average at 5/9 (assuming you're using 2 charges when you play the doomhammer) this might still be worth it if you were guaranteed to draw doomhammer and freebooter together but you aren't and the cards (especially freebooter) are too terrible alone to justify playing either.
Also, on the dirty rat vs gnomeferatu, resources in the hand are more valuable then resources in the deck, so you can combine it with an aoe effect to starve your opponent. Gnomeferatu can also be used to high roll certain N'zoth decks, ones that only run like 2 death rattles (Hitting a control paladins tirion really hurts when it is one of like two death rattles, and the one you want to proliferate with say a hydrologists getaway kodo, but in general, the point is moot since you can just outlast a control warlock and drag them into fatigue or just beat zoo lock to death with lightlord or what have you.) It would seem more impactful to me if you manage to highroll a brawl or a flamestrike as zoo vs a control deck. Even then, most control decks run more then 1 AoE, but there are certain very corner cases where this card could be useful, I mean, not enough to actually run it, but they are still there.
No, me too, but we're a pretty small group, apparently. Most people, including the Blizzard devs, seem to consider it a failed mechanic to a large degree. I've heard the arguments why, and they're quite cogent, but damn it I still love inspire cards. Let's get MOOOving!
I like inspire cards, but they feel over-costed for their immediate stats, especially considering its a +2 cost for if you want to trigger their effects.
Tasos Dimitr I didn't enjoy it too much because it means the cards have to be really good for the mana so you can actually use your hero power or it's too slow and screws up tempo. It has to have a meta built around it or it's just not used or unbalanced.
I loved Inspire cards but they were implemented very poorly. The base card was almost always way too weak for it's mana cost causing it to be a horrible tempo play. The cards should have been at worst neutral mana play (say a 5/4 for four or 3/4 for three, etc, etc) with the added two mana investments buffs. Instead in most cases you had to invest the two mana hero power just to get a half decent minion. The only inspires that worked were either super, super late game or ones that had strong baseline stats.
Turn 6: Doppelgangster + Evolve = 3 6-drops Turn 7: Thrall Death Knight + DK Hero Power = 1 9-drop and some 8-drops. Unless your opponent can deal with all that material on their Turn 6, which is unlikely outside of Volcano or having a decent board and Bloodlust/Savage Roar (unlikely given you're probably playing a similar deck and trading with their board), this seems like a pretty lethal combo.
I play token and ramp druid a lot, all the cards so far for druid have been AWESOME. Although the legendary doesn't look *that* appealing tbh, but I can see why it could be really powerful
the wording is ambiguous because there are no cards that force opponents to discard and because you caused the discard it would be interesting if that counted towards the quest is what I mean.
On Gnomeferatu against combo decks: I see a lot of people saying that the potential to hit a combo piece is outweighed by the higher chance of thinning their deck for them and helping them draw it. That's true, but it forgets that most combo decks have to fatigue themselves to draw their whole combo anyway. So the actual answer to "what if you miss the combo and thin their deck for them?" is "well then you just ended up a card up against a deck that wants to fatigue itself, good for you". To sum it up, forget about the potential to hit a combo piece, that's a distraction. This card is useful against any deck that aims to go to fatigue, and combo decks aim to go to fatigue, therefore it's good against combo decks. Good enough to actually run? Probably not? Definitely not in the Warlock of Un'Goro, which only has fast archetypes right now. Maybe as an anti control tech card in some control Warlock we can't forsee yet, to help it catch up in fatigue after all those taps. EDIT: An important concept here is that the game doesn't just insta-end when they draw their last combo piece. A lot of the time they didn't topdeck it, but had to spend mana to draw it, and they're still stuck stalling out one last turn before dropping the bomb. Which means they need to milk every last bit of value in their deck to ensure they hit the bottom of their deck with enough value left to cover that contingency. Milling random cards makes that hard even if it made the overall drawing process go faster.
If you remove the top card of you opponents deck hoping to hit a specific 3 cards, the vast majority of the time you miss. This actually INCREASES the chance of them drawing those cards because they now have less cards to choose from. On average, playing Gnomeferatu makes a paladin MORE LIKELY to draw Tirion within the next x turns
On the off chance your Silverback patriarch isn't instantly mowed down, *maybe* you could buff him with a Houndmaster or throw out a Timber Wolf. abut in most cases, the 2 extra mana you spent on him (vs Twilight Geomancer) plus the manacost of whatever it is you need to synergize with him for extra stats just isn't worth it. Even with Dinomancy, you're spending 6 mana for a 3/6 taunt, only one stat gain better than Senjin Shieldmaster, a 5 cost. And if you're playing wild, Evil Heckler outclasses Silverback Patriarch in every way for exactly the same cost. It's a bad card that shoudl never be played.
One thing to add to the Gnomeferatu discussion (not disagreeing with Trump at all) but in magic there are a lot of ways you can interact with your graveyard; so getting something milled might not be that big of a deal. Unlike in Hearthstone there aren't as many ways to interact with "the graveyard". Just something to consider why Gnomeferatu could be different to millstone.
Here's a way of thinking about Gnomeferatu: The card is *exactly* as good as it would be if it removed the bottom card instead of the top card. This is true since Hearthstone has no way of looking at decks or putting cards into specific positions. Therefore shuffling or otherwise changing the order of any cards in any deck (without looking) is always a neutral option--it doesn't affect win chances. (The same logic applies to Fel Reaver.)
also with Gnomeferatu, If you assume they're not going to fatigue, The odds that you remove a good card are full counterbalanced by the odds that you bring them even closer to drawing that bad card.
You should consider the Gnomish vampire like the taunt that draws a card out and mess up the method. It more or less is a remove two cards and they end up having nothing in hand to play against you for two turns. Consider your enemy has no hands keeps drawing magic cards that need minions and you Mill two minions, and it takes that much longer to have minions to do the things they have to do what they want. Dirty Rat and that together are pretty messy for your enemy. Could use the pirate with Torin and get a 5/3 buff for 8/6
You could use Benedictus to sort of deal with jade. A match up priest typically loses in the long game. I say sorta because even if you save it to the end and fill your deck with jade idols, the druid still has the lead on jades and you are starting from 1/1. Perhaps you could run a dragon priest with dragon op's and a lot of card stealing though.
Gnomeferatu isn't great, but it still will likely be a 2 of since Warlock is locked in to zoo for the near future and a 2 mana card that can mill a board clear is just good enough to replace some of the lesser cards in disco lock. I also really wish there was more disruption in the game. It would be cool to see warlock get some good "both players discard x number of cards" effects.
My friend has a magic the gathering mill deck and his combo is a one turn mill. There is a card called startled awake: at the end of your turn put the top x cards of your library into your graveyard, where x is the amount of cards you put into your library this turn. He got two of those plus two cards that makes you put the top 13 cards of your library into your graveyard. 13+13 + startled awake x2 you put the top 104 cards from your library to your graveyard. Now that is an OTK
Gnomeferatu won't be meta defining, but with it's solid statline I could very well see it being played as a two drop. I think the cases where you run up against a combo deck or discarding Tirion might be worth more than Sunfury Protector or that friendly bartender. But I also think it has the potential to jump from decent card to good card if Warlock gets more mil synergy in the future.
The main reason why dirty rat is better is because you actually force a "live" resource out of your opponents hand, gnomeferatu hits a resource that your opponent didn't have anyway, so your plus'ing nothing.
13:49 but then you know that eventually every one will go through the experience of having just the card they needed, or a card that isn't a combo piece but is still really important, like their second flame strike, or a kazakus being burnt
My prediction: it's gonna be a large priest minion maybe with like a 9-10 Mana cost and is gonna have large stats probably in the 8/9 power slot. The text is going to say something about synergy with dead minions and it's a legendary. Of course I could also be completely off.
The trick to Gnomeferatu is to imagine it said remove the bottom card of your opponents deck. Removing the top or bottom card of a deck is mechanically the same thing.
Gnomeferatu could actually be a really good card if used in conjunction with Youthful Brewmaster and other cards that return a minion to your hand. In conjunction with Brann Bronzebeard, there's the potential to disintegrate almost a third of your opponents deck. Best case scenario in one turn, >Brann for 3 mana >Gnome for 2 mana >Youthful for 2 mana >Gnome again for 2 mana That's 4 cards totally obliterated, AND you've got 3 ok minions on the field. If you still have the coin, you can Youthful Brewmaster your Gnome a second time and have two 2/3's and a 3/4 on the field, plus whatever you already had out prior to pulling this combo. Preferably, you'd only do this behind a big taunt minion so that you have the opportunity to pull it a second time with Ancient Brewmasters this time. If you keep Brans alive and don't lose a Gnome prematurely, you can discard 10 of your opponent's cards in total.
Archbishop Benedictus makes possible the one combo I want to see the most: Eye for an Eye + Embrace the Shadows + Reno Jackson. I really wanna know if it would just kill both players. All you need is someone to run Eye for an Eye in Wild...
Im guessing the new card @Trump is revealing is some sort of legendary that gives off an effect depending on the amount of cards in your deck. Exited for tomorrow :)
Icewalker is reminding people of the Magic the Gathering combo Wrath of God/Icy Manipulater. I suppose in hearthstone it would be something like Flamestrike/Icewalker.
Glad that you showed twitch chat in this form. Sure we only got a couple of lines but this help the videos feel more interactive, in a way. Also helps that the editing is good :P
Gnome Waifu will probably see a few bits of play in zoo, just milling various things to annoy the other player and possibly remove board clears. 2/3 ain't too bad in that.
Gnome is nothing like millstone. You're basically playing a 2/3 on curve and getting the burn a car effect for free. Compare that to pay 2 to initially play the artifact that won't contest the board then, an additional 2 every time you want to burn a card in a game where you actually have to draw into your lands and make mana a much more limited resource
13:33 "and you'll usually have an answer to deal with it"... which means rat is NOT a 2 mana card, its more like 5 or more, also it is NECESSARY to run removal WITH rat (i.e. it is actually taking two deck slots, not one). Gnome is TOTALLY different in that it is intended as a 2 mana card. period. no need to run other stuff with it. note: against aggro where you say rat is a big body and pulls a small minion that is easily dealt with, gnome does the same thing a little worse (lower health). note2: I do agree with you that the card is probably not great, but i've got a hunch its going to be a lot better than you think
Just a quick correction regarding your explanation of mill in MTG. You don't lose when you draw your last card, you lose when you go to draw a card and you don't have one.
Gnomeferatu imo should be DISCARD the top card of your opponents deck. That way it would also count towards the quest, giving it that tiny little step up to being viable.
do you think a Malygos Druid deck could be built using Prince Taldaram? Malygos + Innervate + Prince Taldaram + 2 Moonfires results in 22 damage burst.
Another point about Gnomeferatu: Sometimes you mill their combo piece. But the vast majority of the time you just get them one card closer to their combo piece.
This is a great point!
You still hurt their ability to slow down the game, which is usually what the rest of the deck is geared towards. plus anything that could draw them more then one card is a net gain for you.
None of you thought about the most powerful thing about Gnomeferatu.
He gives you information what your opponent cannot draw. You burn Polymorph - you know your opponent cannot draw his second one ever.
Rurike you're playing warlock.
Think about that for a second
Unless their death knight lets them go long, it ain't doing anything
I am actually surprised that basically noone thought about the same thing as me... it's quite sad even the top competetive players doesn't see this. But I suppose Kibler will see the potential. He's one of the players good at seeing all sides, not tunnel vision like Trump.
Lmao the description says "Kripp Lord" instead of Crypt Lord
Probably intended.
definitely intended
Kripps twitch chat started it
I actually heard him say "Kripp Lord"
i hope they make flavour text of the card a refference to kripp
Mailman fiery bat
Fun fact: The vampire gnome has on hearthpwn about the same amount of people voting that it will be meta-defining as prince malchazaar had, at 41%. :)
Hearthpwn people are precious tho'. :P
Rasmus Juul Svendsen vanilla 5 mana 5/6 is better than malz lol. All magic players know that this card is unplayable.
Alex Jorgson im a magic player, and i was confused why warlock got such a bad card, when they are in such a need of good cards, but everybody else said it was amazing, so i began doubting myself until i noticed the basicly equal votes with malchazaar. :)
I belive Gnomeferatu should get at least 3 stars just for how damn cute she is
TheHalogen131 ok, fair enough, but she doesnt even have the meme value of the priest legendary, meme wagon or the snowflipper penguin. :)
I lost it at the brass knuckles edit. 10/10 Jens is the best. 18:30
iseeyounoobs thanks:)
Could you post a time stamp? I can't find it :(
18:30 is the string of funny comments which lead to the edit.
Oh right ok I saw that. I thought Jens gave Trump ACTUAL brass knuckles :D
iseeyounoobs y
Did you see the kripp lord in the description :D
Jens is the fucking king!
19:00 actually made me laugh out loud
MINDBLOWN
But a 4 mana 5/9 is better than he's making it out to be.
But Sword of Justice is worse than you're making it out to be
Same, lmao
how to fix Gnomeferatu: Battlecry: Discover a card from your opponents deck and discard it.
This way it actually has a decent chance of getting something useful, and it lets you remove cards you actually want to remove, instead of having a chance of removing your opponents bad cards
Rumu11 it would still be unplayable unless combo takes over but that is indeed a much better design
I don't know about unplayable: in most matchups, there are certain key cards that have a significant effect on winrate. Discover gives you a reasonable chance to hit one of those. Probably still not a *good* card, but probably not awful.
That is definetly too op and it will never happen. Gnomeferatu right now has a chance of 1/26, your version is 3/26 and the chance gets higher as the game progress to destory something essential. Have we not learned from Drakonid Operative how op is ability to choose from opponents deck?
Nah I think the best way to make this card good would be for the text to say "The next card your opponent draws is discarded." This way it discards a card from their deck, and also negates their draw for that turn. It'd probably have to be a legendary for that though lol
Marko Todorovic the chance doesnt get higher as the game progresses because the chance of them aleady having the card in hand increases.
"Starting with Kripp Lord"
Warlock doesn't have any other mill-supporting cards. If it starts getting more "remove cards from opponents library" effects then sure, then we can talk about Gnomeferatu. Or if Vampiric Tutor type effects start existing (so you can snipe them). As it stands, the body is Arena playable and the effect is something like a 3/26 that you'll hit something relevant.
Krip Lord Turns out its preetttyyy goood!!!!!!!!!!
The background wind noise sounds good and is on point Jens!
My compliments to the editor of Trumps Video.
Sublimely done. Great humour. 🤣
tijl deconynck his name is Jens.
thanks tijl deconyck! appreciate it
If you want to know exactly why is gnomish vampire bad, consider this:
There is no "top card of enemy deck". Discarding a top card is equivalent of discarding a bottom card. So yes, you discard a Tirion, but that would have been their last card anyway.
So the card actually reads: If your opponent draws last card of their deck, they draw their first fatigue card instead
Which is actually pretty good in fatigue decks. But then I have to ask: You are playing high-value super-control fatigue deck, what is 2 mana 2/3 doing there
Also, my favourite comment on this page could be paraphrased as: 1 in 30, you discard their Tirion, all other times, you put them one draw closer to Tirion by discarding a non-Tirion. (The same for combo deck, most of the time, you just discard one of the filler cards and make their deck smaller, thus making drawing the whole deck easier)
I don't say the card is broken or even that it will for sure see any play in constructed, but i dont think the effect is as bad as it seems.
In a lot of decks (non aggro decks) you want MOST of the cards in your deck, that is the reason why you put two of them in your decks to begin with, You want two spike rigged steeds, you want two alley armorsmiths, you want (and some times need) two copies of whatever AoE you are running.
Whatever you hit with this card not only has half the chances even being drawn, you KNOW that if it is used once you won't see it again in the future.
It is very hard to quantify the value in this effect , but the fact that you are not risking anything by playing the card gives me some hope for it.
Stitched Tracker is the card that Weasel Tunneler decks needed
i think trump's card will be something like: ''gain armor/heal for the amount of cards in your deck''
An Archbishop Benedictus deck could be based on a heavy cycle anti / aggro deck that draws most of its deck within a few turns and then refuels with Archbishop Benedictus.
Kirinketsu refuels with bad aggro cards that don't fit the game plan of your deck
What if you are playing an aggro deck also? what if you are playing a heavy cycle aggro deck that plays cheap spells and minions to clear the board and cycle thru your deck, at the rate of 2 time to 3 time that of your opponent and once you hit the tail end of your deck and you have cleared the board and your opponent has no cards in hand you copy their deck and continue to draw the remaining draw cards you have.
Saying a card is bad cause it is dead vs X deck is not a good reason, that is called a tech card and most decks run them, they will always be dead vs the deck they are not meant for. I bet a few aggro cycle draw Priest decks will pop up whose plan is board control while cycling for that board control and refueling with the opponents last 15 to 10 cards while having some cycle left over for the win.
And vs control it is the same plan you flood the board and cycle, force your opponent to use the cards in their hand and they draw to answer you until you get low on cards and then refuel with their deck and some left over cycle cards for the win.
The thing is, my friend... This is the Priest legendary. so "what if you are playing an aggro deck also?" its automatically invalidated. Plus 7 Mana 4/6 aggro deck wont happen
one minded people like yourself give 5 star cards 1 star like Trump
The artwork for Gnomeferatu reminds me of the artworks produced by the Shaman.
Trump, I just want to clarify one thing. Gnomeferatu's effect ONLY does something if your opponent goes to fatigue. Milling an enemys combo piece doesn't matter. Say the chance that you milled your opponents combo piece is 1/20, for example. Then there is a 1/20 chance that that particular combo piece is at the bottom of the deck.
Hitting a combo piece with Gnomeferatu is insta win = Opponent being unlucky and having their combo piece at the bottom of their deck is also insta win, UNLESS your opponent actually pulls all cards and goes to fatigue.
I'm just posting this because it seemed like you thought the discard effect was useful in two different situations, when it's actually ONLY when your opponent goes to fatigue.
He also forgot to mention that dirty rat pulls a card from the opponents hand, so they have one card less in their hand afterwards.
Your logic is incorrect - in the case when you play gnomeferatu, there is still a probability that their combo piece is on the bottom of their deck. Situation 1: the top card of your opponent's deck is a combo piece - You play gnomeferatu and mill it, or you don't play gnomeferatu and they draw it. Situation 2: The bottom card of your opponent's deck is a combo piece. You play gnomeferatu or you don't, your opponent still doesn't draw the combo piece.
Combo decks win all the time by having their final piece of the combo be the bottom of their deck. They draw their deck. This is the small benefit of Gnomish Vampire.
I agree. Just clarifying that they need to draw their entire deck for it to make a difference so people don't think otherwise.
Gnomeferatu can either disrupt a combo, or, which is more probable, just help to get the combo faster (as there are usualy very little combo pieces). It may remove a draw card to sort of come out neutral.
Crypt Lord into living mana bby.
I love when trump clicked on the ground on the screen while he missed the cards he was talking about.
Is it a 4 mana 7/7 Battlecry: Make Kripp cry?
For Thrall, I feel like the better play is the turn 6 dopple + evolve, following up with turn 7 Thrall + hero power, or 2 mana critter + thrall. Seems like he's more a follow-up to an already powerful combo.
Arch Benedictus steal priest mirriro : filling the decks out constanty.
Neva.
As a MtG player, the whole mill conversation was very nostalgic since i used to play mill.
@Trump I'm a warlock main, I hope they make a card that says "shuffle all cards discarded into your deck". It has the potential to help bring warlock back into standered
The thing people aren't understanding about Gnomeferatu is that yes, it can make your opponent mill something important, but if that all-important board clear or whatever was the SECOND top then you're just making them draw it one turn earlier instead, and that has just as much chance of happening.
I think we can all agree that
There's no Hearthstone channel as funny as Trump's😂😂😂
Amen.
Shane Okakpu what about DisguisedToastHS?
Lol at the Silverback Patriarch behind Arthus around 14:45
Taunt Druid? Control Hunter? Love how this set is trying to turn some archetypes on their head
Taunt druid used to be a thing, ramp druid so to say. In vanilla at least.
candlehawk They are trying to slow down the game. It wont workt
Till next rotation though
taunt druid and control (egg / recruit) hunter are high tier staples these days
The clicking sound effects are on point
Love the description
Embrace Darkness - The stronger the effect it's likely to have. The more likely you lose before it takes effect.
ON THE PLUS SIDE HOWEVER
4 attack removal. Priest can now remove Primordial Drake / Nether Drake / Ysera ect without 10 mana. Although Ysera could just blow herself up, and also will get 2 cards value by the time its dealt with.
Doomhammer + phantom freebooter seems good
Lengarion doomhammer doesn't seem good,
Lengarion you have to force yourself to have the doomhammer in your deck, and you have to play the doomhammer first meaning you're not playing your 4 drop until turn 6 at which point it's just slightly above average at 5/9 (assuming you're using 2 charges when you play the doomhammer) this might still be worth it if you were guaranteed to draw doomhammer and freebooter together but you aren't and the cards (especially freebooter) are too terrible alone to justify playing either.
Also, on the dirty rat vs gnomeferatu, resources in the hand are more valuable then resources in the deck, so you can combine it with an aoe effect to starve your opponent. Gnomeferatu can also be used to high roll certain N'zoth decks, ones that only run like 2 death rattles (Hitting a control paladins tirion really hurts when it is one of like two death rattles, and the one you want to proliferate with say a hydrologists getaway kodo, but in general, the point is moot since you can just outlast a control warlock and drag them into fatigue or just beat zoo lock to death with lightlord or what have you.) It would seem more impactful to me if you manage to highroll a brawl or a flamestrike as zoo vs a control deck. Even then, most control decks run more then 1 AoE, but there are certain very corner cases where this card could be useful, I mean, not enough to actually run it, but they are still there.
am i the only one that wants more inspire cards?
No, me too, but we're a pretty small group, apparently. Most people, including the Blizzard devs, seem to consider it a failed mechanic to a large degree. I've heard the arguments why, and they're quite cogent, but damn it I still love inspire cards. Let's get MOOOving!
I like inspire cards, but they feel over-costed for their immediate stats, especially considering its a +2 cost for if you want to trigger their effects.
Tasos Dimitr I didn't enjoy it too much because it means the cards have to be really good for the mana so you can actually use your hero power or it's too slow and screws up tempo. It has to have a meta built around it or it's just not used or unbalanced.
I loved Inspire cards but they were implemented very poorly. The base card was almost always way too weak for it's mana cost causing it to be a horrible tempo play. The cards should have been at worst neutral mana play (say a 5/4 for four or 3/4 for three, etc, etc) with the added two mana investments buffs. Instead in most cases you had to invest the two mana hero power just to get a half decent minion.
The only inspires that worked were either super, super late game or ones that had strong baseline stats.
The only reason it's a failed mechanic was because Blizzard under-stated all the Inspire cards
Turn 6: Doppelgangster + Evolve = 3 6-drops
Turn 7: Thrall Death Knight + DK Hero Power = 1 9-drop and some 8-drops.
Unless your opponent can deal with all that material on their Turn 6, which is unlikely outside of Volcano or having a decent board and Bloodlust/Savage Roar (unlikely given you're probably playing a similar deck and trading with their board), this seems like a pretty lethal combo.
*T H E S N O W M A N*
I play token and ramp druid a lot, all the cards so far for druid have been AWESOME. Although the legendary doesn't look *that* appealing tbh, but I can see why it could be really powerful
the potential of Gnomeferatu if it said discard instead of remove for the quest could have been epic... :(
its about your cards you discard, if i am right...
the wording is ambiguous because there are no cards that force opponents to discard and because you caused the discard it would be interesting if that counted towards the quest is what I mean.
On Gnomeferatu against combo decks:
I see a lot of people saying that the potential to hit a combo piece is outweighed by the higher chance of thinning their deck for them and helping them draw it. That's true, but it forgets that most combo decks have to fatigue themselves to draw their whole combo anyway. So the actual answer to "what if you miss the combo and thin their deck for them?" is "well then you just ended up a card up against a deck that wants to fatigue itself, good for you".
To sum it up, forget about the potential to hit a combo piece, that's a distraction. This card is useful against any deck that aims to go to fatigue, and combo decks aim to go to fatigue, therefore it's good against combo decks.
Good enough to actually run? Probably not? Definitely not in the Warlock of Un'Goro, which only has fast archetypes right now. Maybe as an anti control tech card in some control Warlock we can't forsee yet, to help it catch up in fatigue after all those taps.
EDIT: An important concept here is that the game doesn't just insta-end when they draw their last combo piece. A lot of the time they didn't topdeck it, but had to spend mana to draw it, and they're still stuck stalling out one last turn before dropping the bomb. Which means they need to milk every last bit of value in their deck to ensure they hit the bottom of their deck with enough value left to cover that contingency. Milling random cards makes that hard even if it made the overall drawing process go faster.
That feeling when you are super early to this only to realise you watched this streamed :(
Blizzard released this expansion so fast. I took a break from this channel, and Trump has already made 5 new card reviews! Great content!
That millstone editing was great and LUL
If you remove the top card of you opponents deck hoping to hit a specific 3 cards, the vast majority of the time you miss. This actually INCREASES the chance of them drawing those cards because they now have less cards to choose from.
On average, playing Gnomeferatu makes a paladin MORE LIKELY to draw Tirion within the next x turns
14:45 dat Patriarch
Lightsaga hell, just run a twilight geomancer. you dont even need to have a cthun
What about that beast synergy though?
On the off chance your Silverback patriarch isn't instantly mowed down, *maybe* you could buff him with a Houndmaster or throw out a Timber Wolf. abut in most cases, the 2 extra mana you spent on him (vs Twilight Geomancer) plus the manacost of whatever it is you need to synergize with him for extra stats just isn't worth it. Even with Dinomancy, you're spending 6 mana for a 3/6 taunt, only one stat gain better than Senjin Shieldmaster, a 5 cost. And if you're playing wild, Evil Heckler outclasses Silverback Patriarch in every way for exactly the same cost. It's a bad card that shoudl never be played.
One thing to add to the Gnomeferatu discussion (not disagreeing with Trump at all) but in magic there are a lot of ways you can interact with your graveyard; so getting something milled might not be that big of a deal. Unlike in Hearthstone there aren't as many ways to interact with "the graveyard". Just something to consider why Gnomeferatu could be different to millstone.
5:15 wtf when I first saw that I thought that it was just a troll
Joakim Johansson
I thought it was Trump's special card reveal. Infinite greed 😄
I thought the same things! But then i remembered that its not even close to april fools
Im mostly looking forward playing arena with these cards! Most cards that suck in construcked are great in arena!
M E M E W A G O N
dust wagon
Here's a way of thinking about Gnomeferatu: The card is *exactly* as good as it would be if it removed the bottom card instead of the top card. This is true since Hearthstone has no way of looking at decks or putting cards into specific positions. Therefore shuffling or otherwise changing the order of any cards in any deck (without looking) is always a neutral option--it doesn't affect win chances. (The same logic applies to Fel Reaver.)
Meat Wagon, what if you only ran minions with 5 attack or more and buffed it to 5 attack, then it would always pull Malygos
Kirinketsu good job, you can read!
Kirinketsu Why do people forget that you can pull a doomsayer?
why are we talking about doomsayer? and thank you Sayf Tarek, I can read quite well.
also with Gnomeferatu, If you assume they're not going to fatigue, The odds that you remove a good card are full counterbalanced by the odds that you bring them even closer to drawing that bad card.
Gnomeferatu is awful aaaaa you may as well have just acted like the discarded card was just not drawn
Starluigi Against combo it's pretty good. Discard a piece GG
GhostElite974 name one current combo deck
Jade druid they run one jade idol and without it they are way worse
GhostElite974 or you could just play a good minion instead and win before the combo goes off
GhostElite974 or discard any other card and help the opponent get to the combo 1 turn earlier
You should consider the Gnomish vampire like the taunt that draws a card out and mess up the method. It more or less is a remove two cards and they end up having nothing in hand to play against you for two turns. Consider your enemy has no hands keeps drawing magic cards that need minions and you Mill two minions, and it takes that much longer to have minions to do the things they have to do what they want. Dirty Rat and that together are pretty messy for your enemy. Could use the pirate with Torin and get a 5/3 buff for 8/6
*where is Darkest Dungeon?*
TheA77Way shut up bitch
Where is Black Survival!?!
IKR? why trump plays this shitty-ass card game?
DARKEST DUNGEON IS WHAT MADE YOU FAMOUS TRUMP, THAT'S EVERYTHING YOU SHOULD PLAY.
You could use Benedictus to sort of deal with jade. A match up priest typically loses in the long game. I say sorta because even if you save it to the end and fill your deck with jade idols, the druid still has the lead on jades and you are starting from 1/1.
Perhaps you could run a dragon priest with dragon op's and a lot of card stealing though.
gachiGASM
You everywhere Baj D:
Gnomeferatu isn't great, but it still will likely be a 2 of since Warlock is locked in to zoo for the near future and a 2 mana card that can mill a board clear is just good enough to replace some of the lesser cards in disco lock.
I also really wish there was more disruption in the game. It would be cool to see warlock get some good "both players discard x number of cards" effects.
Trump says that Gnomeferatu sucks, and I immediately assume that the card will be great because of Trumps shitty track record.
He categorized dr.boom and mysterious challenger as bad cards.
Do 'cast this again' effects add spell counts to Yogg?
0/10 no Dörty Rat
Mindbreaker might be really good depending on how popular the lich-hero decks get because their main strenght seems to bee their hero power
hahaha the pointing to nothing killed me :D:D:D
The 3 mana 1 4 silver back patriarch looming in the shadow
My friend has a magic the gathering mill deck and his combo is a one turn mill. There is a card called startled awake: at the end of your turn put the top x cards of your library into your graveyard, where x is the amount of cards you put into your library this turn. He got two of those plus two cards that makes you put the top 13 cards of your library into your graveyard. 13+13 + startled awake x2 you put the top 104 cards from your library to your graveyard. Now that is an OTK
and that's what hearthstone can't do
Archbishop Benedictus: I like this deck I think I WILL TAKE IT.
Gnomeferatu won't be meta defining, but with it's solid statline I could very well see it being played as a two drop. I think the cases where you run up against a combo deck or discarding Tirion might be worth more than Sunfury Protector or that friendly bartender. But I also think it has the potential to jump from decent card to good card if Warlock gets more mil synergy in the future.
The main reason why dirty rat is better is because you actually force a "live" resource out of your opponents hand, gnomeferatu hits a resource that your opponent didn't have anyway, so your plus'ing nothing.
13:49 but then you know that eventually every one will go through the experience of having just the card they needed, or a card that isn't a combo piece but is still really important, like their second flame strike, or a kazakus being burnt
My prediction: it's gonna be a large priest minion maybe with like a 9-10 Mana cost and is gonna have large stats probably in the 8/9 power slot. The text is going to say something about synergy with dead minions and it's a legendary. Of course I could also be completely off.
The trick to Gnomeferatu is to imagine it said remove the bottom card of your opponents deck. Removing the top or bottom card of a deck is mechanically the same thing.
I love the dust at 9:23 when Trump was trying to point to the card but there was no room. Jens misses nothing.
Gnomeferatu is also a good card against jade druids in the fact that you can remove that last jade idol to enable fatigue
Jens, the lich king's left eye was not animating. You are fired.
Gnomeferatu could actually be a really good card if used in conjunction with Youthful Brewmaster and other cards that return a minion to your hand. In conjunction with Brann Bronzebeard, there's the potential to disintegrate almost a third of your opponents deck. Best case scenario in one turn,
>Brann for 3 mana
>Gnome for 2 mana
>Youthful for 2 mana
>Gnome again for 2 mana
That's 4 cards totally obliterated, AND you've got 3 ok minions on the field. If you still have the coin, you can Youthful Brewmaster your Gnome a second time and have two 2/3's and a 3/4 on the field, plus whatever you already had out prior to pulling this combo. Preferably, you'd only do this behind a big taunt minion so that you have the opportunity to pull it a second time with Ancient Brewmasters this time. If you keep Brans alive and don't lose a Gnome prematurely, you can discard 10 of your opponent's cards in total.
I was watching during the live twitch stream, and boy, Jens does a good job editing these.
Archbishop Benedictus makes possible the one combo I want to see the most:
Eye for an Eye + Embrace the Shadows + Reno Jackson.
I really wanna know if it would just kill both players.
All you need is someone to run Eye for an Eye in Wild...
I think we're all overlooking the real benefit of gnomeferatu: finally a card we won't mind discarding!
Gnomeferatu is that a reference to nosferatu? I immediately thought of spongebob at the end of the hash slinging slasher episode
oh yes it's definitely a spongebob reference....
The dust animation is legendary at 9:23 !
We see Tar Creeper in many variances of aggro token druid, Kripp Lord will shine in that archetype
Im guessing the new card @Trump is revealing is some sort of legendary that gives off an effect depending on the amount of cards in your deck. Exited for tomorrow :)
Icewalker is reminding people of the Magic the Gathering combo Wrath of God/Icy Manipulater. I suppose in hearthstone it would be something like Flamestrike/Icewalker.
Holy fkng sht the editing is on point, great job Jens you killed me
Glad that you showed twitch chat in this form. Sure we only got a couple of lines but this help the videos feel more interactive, in a way. Also helps that the editing is good :P
OMG that Millstone edit on Trump's clicks XD Jenz god
17:19 Brady Haran would be proud. Freebooting making its way into Hearthstone
Gnome Waifu will probably see a few bits of play in zoo, just milling various things to annoy the other player and possibly remove board clears. 2/3 ain't too bad in that.
Gnome is nothing like millstone. You're basically playing a 2/3 on curve and getting the burn a car effect for free. Compare that to pay 2 to initially play the artifact that won't contest the board then, an additional 2 every time you want to burn a card in a game where you actually have to draw into your lands and make mana a much more limited resource
"You have to run the meat wagon into something."
I bet there will be a funny interaction with Mindbreaker and some bosses where they instantly kill it or laugh and keep using their hero power.
I really like the newer millstone art. That stone head with the millstone spinning on it, slowly grinding it.
Basically me, trying to pull decent cards from stupid hs packs.
"NONE OF YOU MAKE ANY SENSE!.. most of you make sense, thanks to being educated"
i died at this part
13:33 "and you'll usually have an answer to deal with it"... which means rat is NOT a 2 mana card, its more like 5 or more, also it is NECESSARY to run removal WITH rat (i.e. it is actually taking two deck slots, not one). Gnome is TOTALLY different in that it is intended as a 2 mana card. period. no need to run other stuff with it. note: against aggro where you say rat is a big body and pulls a small minion that is easily dealt with, gnome does the same thing a little worse (lower health). note2: I do agree with you that the card is probably not great, but i've got a hunch its going to be a lot better than you think
Just a quick correction regarding your explanation of mill in MTG. You don't lose when you draw your last card, you lose when you go to draw a card and you don't have one.
Gnomeferatu imo should be DISCARD the top card of your opponents deck. That way it would also count towards the quest, giving it that tiny little step up to being viable.
do you think a Malygos Druid deck could be built using Prince Taldaram? Malygos + Innervate + Prince Taldaram + 2 Moonfires results in 22 damage burst.
Think of Gnomeferatu as saying: Discard the card at the bottom of your opponent's deck.
That makes it easier to understand.