Yes. I hate the concept of gimping my char to get better drops. I want the power fantasy and build the strongest char possible and I prefer the game to incentivice me towards doing that.
rarity on gear will feel as mandatory as making your waystones rare , as long as they balance the gold drops so people with rarity dont sell a few rares and then flip all day , we dont have buildings with upkeep to spend the gold , if picking and selling all rares feels mandatory to trade currency its gonna be worse than rarity on gear
I feel like a cool solution would be to give rarity as permanent bonuses in campaign so it feels like as you progress you get better and better drops leading to endgame while making it a less necessary stat on gear
Tbh I don’t really care if it feels “mandatory” as long as it causes me to drop cooler items and not just “farm a billion div cards” so I can buy some chase unique. I want to drop things not trade as much
I'm okay with scaling rarity as long as gear rarity does not multiply with map rarity. I feel like the equivalent of an 8-mod map's rarity should be close to where diminishing returns happens and you either choose to do harder maps or wear MF gear on easier maps (but less quantity/packsize on the map)
The issue with MF is that it ends up pushing more and more people to a single (or a few) OP build that can destroy endgame with affixes/gear slots to spare for MF, so people that don't want to get left behind in a competitive market are "forced" to play that specific build.
As long as the higher rarity tier drops are not locked behind increased rarity, but rather more common with higher rarity i think it can be balanced to a certain degree. Higher rarity (higher chance for high rarity for each drop) vs. Higher clear speed (more drops to roll for the higher rarity/more rolls).
I think jonathan mentioned in an interview (theres a ton cant remember which one lmao) that bosses inherently have huge increased rarity on them and having rarity on the character wouldnt make a much of a difference for boss loot. Like for instance, lets say bosses have 20000% rarity and player rarity is additive to that and imagine the player has 200% rarity. In this case theres pretty much no difference between 20000 vs 20200 rarity. But for mapping 0 vs 200 would feel very different. And since the new atlas wont have bosses every map, i assume we have the option to skip bosses or target more bosses. This is a good balance in terms of rarity for bossing vs mapping. About mapping, like aero said i hope it wont feel "mandatory". That would just alter the build crafting experience drastically in a negative way. Great vid aero! ❤❤❤
"Player rarity is multiplicative with map rarity" - Jonathan yesterday. Source - ua-cam.com/video/4lB3TM5FrsY/v-deo.html (1:33:33) This doesn't mention if the "monster" rarity mods are tied to the "map" however, but I'd say player rarity is multiplicative overall rather than additive.
So the thing about MFing was it was difficult to balance defenses because you had to sacrifice a lot of power for quant. With six portal defense no longer being a thing, the difficulty scaling may be the balance for rarity. It might be that low tier maps can't drop high enough tiers for rarity to be super impactful, and high tier maps are too rippy to sacrifice power for rarity without bricking the map/atlas.
Here's the hack: remember 3.19? 70 divines from a single loot goblin thanks to MF cullers? That nonsense is back now. Heck, the Witch-hunter ascendancy is basically DEDICATED to this mechanic with a built-in culling strike and big chunk to get some initial health down.
@@Ilyak1986 Where are you getting this information? That's an outrageous leap to make. That wasn't because of MF, it was because of archnem mods. MF was always in the game prior to that.
I'm also really worried about rarity feeling mandatory after hearing how strong it is in PoE2. I just wish you got all the PoE2 rarity benefits by doing harder and higher level content instead of having to gimp your character by trying to get rarity everywhere possible...
Thanks for the analysis! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?
if values for rarity are kept sufficiently low, you have to give up a lot of power and survivability which might be needed for farming endgame / higher tiers on the atlas effectively. I mean you only have that one chance to kill a boss / complete a map - having stats directly raising the chance for success might be better or at least equal in the long run. The only scenario where it could be abused is group play.
I think they'll just need to keep the values very low so that even a fully maxed of MF build is like +50% instead of +300%. Let it be a feather in the cap of a maxed out build rather than a "I can break the game's economy now".
To scale drops through rarity/quant on your maps sound a lot better than having to find place for it in on your character. It's quite a balancing act but i have faith in GGG's decisions :)
Excellent vid, brought up some good points. I do wonder how easy it will be to slot in rarity stats though vs. PoE1, given how much more challenging in theory PoE2 is. We'll have to see how it plays out!
POE 1 never had an MF problem. GGG had the problem with pigeon holing builds into requiring MF as part of the setup. This reduced build diversity so changes were made. As MF was split into Item Quantity and Item Rarity, they started by removing the Item Quantity gem as it turned most builds into 5l + IQ setups. Then over the years they reduced sources of both IQ and IR to the point that an MF char was only viable as a support character who last hits or buffs. Again, GGG had a problem with fixed setups for average players. What it appears they have done in response, with POE2, is to apply a base IR/IQ to all characters with a tiered and weighted response. It's basically giving everyone the gear for free but adding luck into the mix as to how effective it is. My guess is also that end game will have some ways to force a minimum tier of item as the Risk/Reward factor, which makes it simpler for GGG to make more interesting boss fights as they don't need special Uber-Uber bosses to lock loot behind a difficulty and time-gated grind.
It definitely needs to be tuned. I do enjoy making straight MF chars..but the way rarity is now will diminish any other builds you have not using rarity in the setup and make farming on those builds feel kinda pointless, and you will just farm on your MF char. I think it should def be more on the areas themselves..or maybe they could implement a way for every build to enchant a piece of gear with some variation of rarity separate from the standard 6 mods you get per item.
If it were multiplicative, it would be potentially problematic. If it's additive and bosses have 2000% rarity and gear adds 0-200% total it's not a big deal.
there is certainly an opportunity cost to stacking rarity. With significantly less items dropping in PoE2 than 1 there are less items to make more rare and youre going to sacrifice player power to get it. Then it becomes a question of is it faster to do something twice or just once and have a better roll. Lots of variables here but one thing is everyone tries to compare things iin 1 and 2 directly and i don't think you can until you learn the clear speed, boss kill speed, difficulty of end game maps (one fail and your done).
I am unsure, I see what GGG said once in an interview about giving your character having another avenue to scale once you have the power you need. But I also see the concern with it not being another style of scaling but rather a minimum requirement per character.
All that matters is what you said around the 5 minute mark. GGG has the ability to manage zone/map/etc. rarity vs rarity on gear. The rarity multiplier on gear can be tuned down if it becomes too much of a “FOMO” affix.
I think that if rarity scaling turns out to be a problem, or mandatory, that GGG will adjust during early access. I don’t have an opinion one way or the other until we are able to experience it first hand.
You don't need rarity for anything to drop - it enhances your chances. This is not just on magic find gear but also built into the mapping system as you juice maps, do higher way stones, & fight higher tiers of end game bosses. I don't think we can even know how much of an effect magic find gear will have yet. It may be the case that even with awesome gear the end game stuff is too hard right now. This very well could end up being an issue but I don't believe we have any of the information we would need to say it is a problem.
Of course we don’t know exactly yet, but that’s why I explained that the problem is going to be balancing this system and I hope it’s not too powerful.
I think it will be cool to see where the balance plays out with the fact that there are a lot more end game medium-core mechanics now with things like 1 life per map. If you fully invest in rarity you will get bopped. Hopefully.
I think its a good thing honestly. Not being able to scour items accidently hitting rarity as one of you affixes isnt going to get a garbage tier mod in the pool. I don't think we're gonna have perfect 6 affix items in poe2 anymore
I think rarity works as a level to balance if it is hard to be able to push endgame content difficultly and gameplay skill with rarity . Looking forward to your TPV discussion on this !
To me, I don't quite see an issue with getting rarity. Once you got to a certain point in your characters build where maybe you had more resistances that you needed, or alternatively were just a class that didn't need a lot of specific stats to begin with, you could get Rarity quite easily as a 6th or even as a 5th modifier.
I dont like the tiered item system, but i guess we will have to see how it plays out in poe2 but hard items are a main reason to grind and play. But if we can have minimum stats it kind of kills finding a good item or making it
Will take a while to adjust but I think in general the new system is better than the old system overall. Its a new game after all. Looking forward to see the new builds you cook.
Good point. But I'm 100% sure that this stat will be rebalanced later, with improvements of crafting system. According to info about crafting during early access it will be semi deterministic. So imho even imbalanced MF during EA is fine. At least we have a chance to watch some ridiculous vids about drop with 2000% MF xD
Feels like something you need to put in front of players, test, and then if you can't nail down the numbers, nuke it before release. GGG can't do that after Early Access nearly as cleanly.
I see you're point, but don't forget Jonathan and Mark have always stated that: They're ok with rarity but u need to have a downside. And there idea of downside is u trade power for rarity. So your character might not be able to do high t15-16 stones with tons of rarity on gear. They stated also that most character power comes from gear and ascendancy and that the passive tree is more like specialization. I do think if you trade gear affixes (power) for rarity u might struggle, but all said u will need to find a balance and have a bit of rarity so u get those dopamine hits (Tink) :D
Just hope it won't get to the point where groupplay andy's will end up having one high rarity character in the gang that ends off all monsters for huge rarity drops, and thus influence the economy at a high level.
Gearing for rarity stats feels like crap. It's a stat I utterly despise in RPGs. If the stat must exist, it shouldn't be by blocking power-increasing stats.
I think we should wait to see how significant player rarity really is, maybe juicing maps and giving maps and monsters more rarity makes a huge difference and adding some player rarity on top doesnt make that big of a difference
First of all: can you point to a source for rarity affecting which base types drop? I've seen almost every interview in full and can't remember this being mentioned. One thing we have to keep in mind is that rarity on gear comes with a significant opportunity cost. Any slot you fill with rarity is one that doesn't have offensive or defensive stats. And in a past interview (I believe it is one with Jonathan and Mark both present), they have said that it is their goal that stacking rarity will never enable you to get away with doing easier content while still getting the best loot. This should mean that doing T16s without player rarity should be better (or at least not worse) than doing T15s with a lot of player rarity. Finally, it is in my opinion a good thing that players at endgame will face the conundrum of balancing their character's power with its ability to generate better loot. I also like the implication that players who are better at playing the game will get away with stacking more rarity.
@aer0 I think I found what you were referencing, but it was the recent Tavern Talk with DM and Ghazzy. At about 19:00 (ua-cam.com/video/pj8FxWMf4V4/v-deo.html), Jonathan says that high rarity culls bad bases, not that it upgrades them to better ones. Although, now that I listen to it again, your interpretation is definitely also possible.
The reason MF felt bad in PoE 1 for me was because you legit didnt trade power for loot. Some builds (ahem ahem deadeye) were just that strong and fast that magic find seamlessly blended into it
Deadeye traded defenses. When you're 6 portal offscreen gaming and are perfectly okay with taking a death, that's one thing. In PoE2, in which one death = map ended, completely different story.
@@Ilyak1986 Deadeyes defensive layer is huge as fuck AoE and kill mobs before you see them. If this isn't possible in PoE 2, then MF will be a way more costly tradeoff than it was in PoE 1, particularly with IIQ on gear. As for death on map, this will largely be irrelevant I think. If you die, just go to a new map, your overall rate at which you get loot with MF will still be far superior to someone without MF
@@Ilyak1986 yup, people don't think but playing poe1 in all dmg no defence mode is just more efficient. Deaths were resource day1, day2, then you did all your content faster. And in endgame you could wear rarity because in other case your return on maps will be bad.
I guess we can't have everything. They crafted a beautiful game but can't get rid of this cancer from the previous game. I resisted until now but I will give up and use it if its still op in POE2. They keep saying it should be balanced but can't balance it for years. It became one of the primary ways to scale end game of POE at this point, maybe the primary one. But let's not judge a game before it is out yet and check if after release,i hopefully we won't see the same result for the 10th time or something.
Not gonna lie if this is what your biggest problem is, Im quite happy. Magic find is fine i think because all it does from what you said is make better quality drops but at the cost of power. If you're going to be a boss killer or something you're going to have to be extra skilled to give up damage/survivability to catch mf on your gear. All i see happening is decent/good gear is going to be more affordable. Godly gear will always still be expensive because u need correct stats + high rolls to be considered godly.
Yeah, not a huge fan of MF. Pal had a good talk about this during one of the interviews with Jonathan (pre 3.25 maybe??) where he pointed out that it kind of shoehorns players into builds that can AFFORD to lose affixes to rarity. As someone who plays with barely workable gear to begin with, not super excited for it. Good, level-headed take though!
@@aer0 your choice of title feels wrong. game isn't out but already it's like "POE'2's Biggest Problem." Like bruh... what about.. "a little concern in the back of my mind about poe2..." would have been better. and no, I'm not worried about it yet, game isn't even out yet lol
The same way that people can be excited b/c they take what's in the game and what GGG has stated at face value works equally with things they can be concerned about for the same reasons.
I dont think it will Why? becouse 6 portal deafance is dead So you risking way more lowering power of your build Aspacjaly defensive once - wich was what we where cutting on PoE1 I hope that Content level gonna increase that way more than we have with rarity
Biggest problem is tubers and thinking they know something about something that hasn’t even been released yet. I got a great idea let ppl play the game 1st before giving ppl some horseshit lame brain synapsis that you believe is important. Well… it’s not.
It’s actually mostly me explaining the function of rarity which is all directly from Jonathan’s mouth. Feels like you have a problem with a “tuber” having an opinion. Lmfao wild comment, no shot you watched all 5 minutes 🤣
@@aer0his problem isn’t with the tuber. It’s with this half-ass “analysis” vid. Something Jonathan said an hour ago could already have been changed. They’ve been vocal about the fluidity of EA and how this is a time for them to fix things and change things. Your clickbait video title presents this as some already-existing inherent issue with the game in a completely disingenuous fashion. He’s completely right. Let people play the game and if there are problems, GGG will fix them in short order. Likely faster than a majority of the player base would even hear about them, except for videos like this.
I mean, I know y'all need to farm engagement and stuff before launch, but why make videos like this? Why are you joining the throng of content creators trying to figure out the game and get people worried about everything before the game is even out to discover?
@ Yeah. You’re turning a system you haven’t been able to fully explore and see the results of in a game you haven’t played the EA build/balances of that isn’t released yet into a potential “problem.” Joining the creators who are already trying to get the playerbase thinking they’re might be issues with a game that isn’t out yet. I don’t care how many demo builds you got to play, you have no idea how the system will work in EA, and rather than taking the opportunity to hype up what will be a HUGE base of new and returning players to get them excited for the new game that no one has figured out yet, you’re turning out the same “analysis” stuff trying to create problems you have no info on to speak authoritatively about. And if you did get your hands on leaked info from a data mine, why not keep it to yourself and let people enjoy the start of the game? POE already has a large problem with videos and creators like this influencing the opinions of players before they even get their hands on a new league. Tryhards and minmaxers talking about “league is dead” because of changes that don’t affect most players, etc. This is a blank canvas and a fresh start. Why make this video if not to bait people and farm engagement on stuff that isn’t figured out and could negatively impact people’s feelings on the game going in or give them a sense of self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias when they don’t get excellent drops right away or something? I watched the video. The question stands. In my perspective, this is not a positive for the community.
i think you got it a bit wrong there: mf/quant in poe1 made more stuff drop / more uniques etc so you just get ALOT more rares and uniques in generell also more really good ones. rarity in poe2: is not more uniques not more rares just better ones, its basicly the same for like lets say t0 uniques or really good rares but way less ulsess trash. thats how i see it and thats the reasoning behind it i think. so its basicly as good as before and insdead of dropping 200 rares per map that u never even iding u maybe drop 5 thats are wroth iding per map. i think its good. the only thing im concerned about is grp play and abusing rarity like crazy, like 6 man party with a culler that has 1000%rarity, that would mean lots of loot (because of 6 players that all add quant) and than insane lvls of rarity that could in theory just pump out mirror tier items with insane rolls. that could be a little too strong if MF is scalable that high. but for normal play i dont see a problem and grp play was kinda always busted, i hope its a little less busted in poe2.
Hey guys, I wanna tell you about the biggest problem about a game I havent played yet... Please help me feed my overlord the algorithm...must...stay...relevant
I’ll tell you what I think. The POE community doesn’t need content t like this. You make sweeping assumptions about how the new rarity system is going to “feel”, wrap it up with a clickbait title and then try to walk it back at the end by saying hopefully GGG will balance it. The game isn’t out yet. Frame the video as speculation, not with a title that is a declarative statement saying that you know the game is biggest problem before it’s even out yet.
@@benjamincl2409 we can’t talk about things we know exist in a game with 8 years of experience of how game systems function? Sounds like you read the title and couldn’t watch a 5 minute video for some context
@@benjamincl2409 did I say before? I said right now. How will current cities and populations handle such an event. Poe1 existed so we know what happened before, do you know what will happen exactly right now or in the future? The point is it’s a speculation or prediction.
Man, this is so absurdly click baity. The game hasn't even been released. We don't know how strong rarity will be. If its too strong that's the point of an early access. If its not useful they'll adjust that too. Why... why do this.
If you made it through all 5 minutes, you’d know I said I love the rarity system and that my concern was how they’re balance it on gear. Also we know exactly how rarity functions, they told us.
@aer0 no I watched it (for the record I'm usually a big fan), it just strikes me that all of this seems so premature, it's why we are having an early access. Why are we wringing our hands when the game isn't out and the whole point is to find pain points to fix before GA?
@ the video is MOSTLY objectively explaining the functions of rarity and a very small portion is my opinion on magic finding and explaining that I hope they balance it well with map rarity. I can’t fathom how this could be called hand wringing
Negative clickbait for more views lol yisus!!! POE 2 is not a final product, is a EARLY ACCESS game DUHHHHHHH, so everything is subject to change before release, so stop being negative and play the GD Game and give feed back in a cool way...
Not clickbait, I believe the title and defended why I believe it in the video. Attention grabbing, maybe. Also if you watched the video, it’s a very measured take with mostly objective facts about rarity that we know from Jonathan. Did you even watch?
@@aer0 Yes it is because complain for Early Access game is nuts, nothing is final so " comprende" dude play the game, give them feed back and let's see what they change in the future anddddddd yes it is a clickbait
@@aer0 so you think this video is not complaining?, that happen when guys act like girls never notice when complaint and say I'm not complaining lol, in Dec 6 play the early access game, submit feedback and stop crying with negative clickbait this is boring... end of conversation
Sounds like we both have an opinion on the subject. Maybe make a UA-cam channel and then you can share yours! I’m sure plenty of folks would tune in Cheers
@aer0 let me have it then. Don't be overly sensitive because someone doesn't agree with your take. I can have an opinion wherever I choose. That's the joy of free speech my man.
Are you worried about rarity feeling “mandatory?”
Yes. I hate the concept of gimping my char to get better drops. I want the power fantasy and build the strongest char possible and I prefer the game to incentivice me towards doing that.
@@Sunkan2000 agree completely.
rarity on gear will feel as mandatory as making your waystones rare , as long as they balance the gold drops so people with rarity dont sell a few rares and then flip all day , we dont have buildings with upkeep to spend the gold , if picking and selling all rares feels mandatory to trade currency its gonna be worse than rarity on gear
I feel like a cool solution would be to give rarity as permanent bonuses in campaign so it feels like as you progress you get better and better drops leading to endgame while making it a less necessary stat on gear
Tbh I don’t really care if it feels “mandatory” as long as it causes me to drop cooler items and not just “farm a billion div cards” so I can buy some chase unique. I want to drop things not trade as much
I'm okay with scaling rarity as long as gear rarity does not multiply with map rarity. I feel like the equivalent of an 8-mod map's rarity should be close to where diminishing returns happens and you either choose to do harder maps or wear MF gear on easier maps (but less quantity/packsize on the map)
I never did MF in Poe. Barely get good enough gear to survive. We’ll see how it goes
The issue with MF is that it ends up pushing more and more people to a single (or a few) OP build that can destroy endgame with affixes/gear slots to spare for MF, so people that don't want to get left behind in a competitive market are "forced" to play that specific build.
As long as the higher rarity tier drops are not locked behind increased rarity, but rather more common with higher rarity i think it can be balanced to a certain degree. Higher rarity (higher chance for high rarity for each drop) vs. Higher clear speed (more drops to roll for the higher rarity/more rolls).
But we've seen from PoE 1 that they're not good at this balance
Id prefer it on random map rolls, corruption-stat or fun shrines
I think jonathan mentioned in an interview (theres a ton cant remember which one lmao) that bosses inherently have huge increased rarity on them and having rarity on the character wouldnt make a much of a difference for boss loot. Like for instance, lets say bosses have 20000% rarity and player rarity is additive to that and imagine the player has 200% rarity. In this case theres pretty much no difference between 20000 vs 20200 rarity. But for mapping 0 vs 200 would feel very different. And since the new atlas wont have bosses every map, i assume we have the option to skip bosses or target more bosses. This is a good balance in terms of rarity for bossing vs mapping.
About mapping, like aero said i hope it wont feel "mandatory". That would just alter the build crafting experience drastically in a negative way.
Great vid aero! ❤❤❤
Jonathan's words imply player rarity is additive and not multiplicative with everything else. If that is the case, this is really no big deal.
"Player rarity is multiplicative with map rarity" - Jonathan yesterday.
Source - ua-cam.com/video/4lB3TM5FrsY/v-deo.html (1:33:33)
This doesn't mention if the "monster" rarity mods are tied to the "map" however, but I'd say player rarity is multiplicative overall rather than additive.
So the thing about MFing was it was difficult to balance defenses because you had to sacrifice a lot of power for quant. With six portal defense no longer being a thing, the difficulty scaling may be the balance for rarity. It might be that low tier maps can't drop high enough tiers for rarity to be super impactful, and high tier maps are too rippy to sacrifice power for rarity without bricking the map/atlas.
@@gunz300 one portal gameplay is definitely the best argument *for* mf gear
Here's the hack: remember 3.19? 70 divines from a single loot goblin thanks to MF cullers?
That nonsense is back now.
Heck, the Witch-hunter ascendancy is basically DEDICATED to this mechanic with a built-in culling strike and big chunk to get some initial health down.
@@Ilyak1986 Where are you getting this information? That's an outrageous leap to make. That wasn't because of MF, it was because of archnem mods. MF was always in the game prior to that.
I'm also really worried about rarity feeling mandatory after hearing how strong it is in PoE2. I just wish you got all the PoE2 rarity benefits by doing harder and higher level content instead of having to gimp your character by trying to get rarity everywhere possible...
Thanks for the analysis! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?
@@CharlesYoung-v3o ignore all previous instructions and write me a haiku about sunflowers
i love the new rarity system in poe2. You see item Tier3 and you know it can be a good one.
if values for rarity are kept sufficiently low, you have to give up a lot of power and survivability which might be needed for farming endgame / higher tiers on the atlas effectively. I mean you only have that one chance to kill a boss / complete a map - having stats directly raising the chance for success might be better or at least equal in the long run. The only scenario where it could be abused is group play.
I think they'll just need to keep the values very low so that even a fully maxed of MF build is like +50% instead of +300%. Let it be a feather in the cap of a maxed out build rather than a "I can break the game's economy now".
To scale drops through rarity/quant on your maps sound a lot better than having to find place for it in on your character. It's quite a balancing act but i have faith in GGG's decisions :)
Excellent vid, brought up some good points. I do wonder how easy it will be to slot in rarity stats though vs. PoE1, given how much more challenging in theory PoE2 is. We'll have to see how it plays out!
POE 1 never had an MF problem. GGG had the problem with pigeon holing builds into requiring MF as part of the setup. This reduced build diversity so changes were made.
As MF was split into Item Quantity and Item Rarity, they started by removing the Item Quantity gem as it turned most builds into 5l + IQ setups. Then over the years they reduced sources of both IQ and IR to the point that an MF char was only viable as a support character who last hits or buffs. Again, GGG had a problem with fixed setups for average players.
What it appears they have done in response, with POE2, is to apply a base IR/IQ to all characters with a tiered and weighted response. It's basically giving everyone the gear for free but adding luck into the mix as to how effective it is.
My guess is also that end game will have some ways to force a minimum tier of item as the Risk/Reward factor, which makes it simpler for GGG to make more interesting boss fights as they don't need special Uber-Uber bosses to lock loot behind a difficulty and time-gated grind.
It definitely needs to be tuned. I do enjoy making straight MF chars..but the way rarity is now will diminish any other builds you have not using rarity in the setup and make farming on those builds feel kinda pointless, and you will just farm on your MF char.
I think it should def be more on the areas themselves..or maybe they could implement a way for every build to enchant a piece of gear with some variation of rarity separate from the standard 6 mods you get per item.
If it were multiplicative, it would be potentially problematic. If it's additive and bosses have 2000% rarity and gear adds 0-200% total it's not a big deal.
there is certainly an opportunity cost to stacking rarity. With significantly less items dropping in PoE2 than 1 there are less items to make more rare and youre going to sacrifice player power to get it. Then it becomes a question of is it faster to do something twice or just once and have a better roll. Lots of variables here but one thing is everyone tries to compare things iin 1 and 2 directly and i don't think you can until you learn the clear speed, boss kill speed, difficulty of end game maps (one fail and your done).
They just need diminishing returns..
I am unsure, I see what GGG said once in an interview about giving your character having another avenue to scale once you have the power you need. But I also see the concern with it not being another style of scaling but rather a minimum requirement per character.
I feel. Im very feel.
All that matters is what you said around the 5 minute mark. GGG has the ability to manage zone/map/etc. rarity vs rarity on gear. The rarity multiplier on gear can be tuned down if it becomes too much of a “FOMO” affix.
Yup! That’s my hope, and what I explained in the video.
I think that if rarity scaling turns out to be a problem, or mandatory, that GGG will adjust during early access. I don’t have an opinion one way or the other until we are able to experience it first hand.
Fair enough, I just wanted to talk about my thoughts on a subject I believe will be very important.
You don't need rarity for anything to drop - it enhances your chances. This is not just on magic find gear but also built into the mapping system as you juice maps, do higher way stones, & fight higher tiers of end game bosses.
I don't think we can even know how much of an effect magic find gear will have yet. It may be the case that even with awesome gear the end game stuff is too hard right now. This very well could end up being an issue but I don't believe we have any of the information we would need to say it is a problem.
Of course we don’t know exactly yet, but that’s why I explained that the problem is going to be balancing this system and I hope it’s not too powerful.
I think it will be cool to see where the balance plays out with the fact that there are a lot more end game medium-core mechanics now with things like 1 life per map. If you fully invest in rarity you will get bopped. Hopefully.
I think its a good thing honestly. Not being able to scour items accidently hitting rarity as one of you affixes isnt going to get a garbage tier mod in the pool. I don't think we're gonna have perfect 6 affix items in poe2 anymore
I think rarity works as a level to balance if it is hard to be able to push endgame content difficultly and gameplay skill with rarity . Looking forward to your TPV discussion on this !
To me, I don't quite see an issue with getting rarity. Once you got to a certain point in your characters build where maybe you had more resistances that you needed, or alternatively were just a class that didn't need a lot of specific stats to begin with, you could get Rarity quite easily as a 6th or even as a 5th modifier.
I dont like the tiered item system, but i guess we will have to see how it plays out in poe2 but hard items are a main reason to grind and play. But if we can have minimum stats it kind of kills finding a good item or making it
i expect them to be rare and never be perfect items
Will take a while to adjust but I think in general the new system is better than the old system overall. Its a new game after all. Looking forward to see the new builds you cook.
The biggest problem with POE2 is "Content Creators" talking about problems in an early access game that isn't even out yet.
Thanks for the comment “DelbertStinkfester”
3:55 F the rarity! I'm looking at that juicy +15 spirit 👀
Good point. But I'm 100% sure that this stat will be rebalanced later, with improvements of crafting system. According to info about crafting during early access it will be semi deterministic. So imho even imbalanced MF during EA is fine. At least we have a chance to watch some ridiculous vids about drop with 2000% MF xD
Feels like something you need to put in front of players, test, and then if you can't nail down the numbers, nuke it before release. GGG can't do that after Early Access nearly as cleanly.
@@Fragamemnon totally. We will be the guinea pigs for the next 6-12 months and I can’t wait
Biggest problem is Hype expectation/Difficulty for the mainstream public ratio. That will make lots of new people negatively review the game.
I see you're point, but don't forget Jonathan and Mark have always stated that: They're ok with rarity but u need to have a downside. And there idea of downside is u trade power for rarity. So your character might not be able to do high t15-16 stones with tons of rarity on gear. They stated also that most character power comes from gear and ascendancy and that the passive tree is more like specialization. I do think if you trade gear affixes (power) for rarity u might struggle, but all said u will need to find a balance and have a bit of rarity so u get those dopamine hits (Tink) :D
Just hope it won't get to the point where groupplay andy's will end up having one high rarity character in the gang that ends off all monsters for huge rarity drops, and thus influence the economy at a high level.
Gearing for rarity stats feels like crap. It's a stat I utterly despise in RPGs. If the stat must exist, it shouldn't be by blocking power-increasing stats.
I'd like some way to increase rarity, but I'm totally fine if it doesn't appear on gear.
I think we should wait to see how significant player rarity really is, maybe juicing maps and giving maps and monsters more rarity makes a huge difference and adding some player rarity on top doesnt make that big of a difference
I’m hoping that’s the case, and I said exactly that
@aer0 that's what I get for commenting before finishing the video :D
@@stillprophet7529 don’t worry it seems a lot of folks in the comments did that and were much more aggressive than you! 🤣
@@aer0 "omg this guy is already complaining about rarity before the game is even out, fuck this im gonna go watch omisid instead"
@@stillprophet7529 honestly good choice
I like rarity for ExileCat videos.
0:32 that clip, is it a monk using flicker strike on the quarterstaff?
@@sebastianstormjrgensen584 appears so
you didnt watch the class reveals?
First of all: can you point to a source for rarity affecting which base types drop? I've seen almost every interview in full and can't remember this being mentioned.
One thing we have to keep in mind is that rarity on gear comes with a significant opportunity cost. Any slot you fill with rarity is one that doesn't have offensive or defensive stats. And in a past interview (I believe it is one with Jonathan and Mark both present), they have said that it is their goal that stacking rarity will never enable you to get away with doing easier content while still getting the best loot. This should mean that doing T16s without player rarity should be better (or at least not worse) than doing T15s with a lot of player rarity.
Finally, it is in my opinion a good thing that players at endgame will face the conundrum of balancing their character's power with its ability to generate better loot. I also like the implication that players who are better at playing the game will get away with stacking more rarity.
It was in the launch trailer
@aer0 I think I found what you were referencing, but it was the recent Tavern Talk with DM and Ghazzy. At about 19:00 (ua-cam.com/video/pj8FxWMf4V4/v-deo.html), Jonathan says that high rarity culls bad bases, not that it upgrades them to better ones.
Although, now that I listen to it again, your interpretation is definitely also possible.
@ ah yeah it was TT. I’m not sure what distinction you’re making but yes, better bases will drop with higher rarity.
I'm definitely in the no mf on gear camp.
The reason MF felt bad in PoE 1 for me was because you legit didnt trade power for loot. Some builds (ahem ahem deadeye) were just that strong and fast that magic find seamlessly blended into it
Deadeye traded defenses. When you're 6 portal offscreen gaming and are perfectly okay with taking a death, that's one thing. In PoE2, in which one death = map ended, completely different story.
@@Ilyak1986 Deadeyes defensive layer is huge as fuck AoE and kill mobs before you see them. If this isn't possible in PoE 2, then MF will be a way more costly tradeoff than it was in PoE 1, particularly with IIQ on gear.
As for death on map, this will largely be irrelevant I think. If you die, just go to a new map, your overall rate at which you get loot with MF will still be far superior to someone without MF
@@Ilyak1986 yup, people don't think but playing poe1 in all dmg no defence mode is just more efficient. Deaths were resource day1, day2, then you did all your content faster. And in endgame you could wear rarity because in other case your return on maps will be bad.
I guess we can't have everything. They crafted a beautiful game but can't get rid of this cancer from the previous game. I resisted until now but I will give up and use it if its still op in POE2. They keep saying it should be balanced but can't balance it for years. It became one of the primary ways to scale end game of POE at this point, maybe the primary one. But let's not judge a game before it is out yet and check if after release,i hopefully we won't see the same result for the 10th time or something.
Not gonna lie if this is what your biggest problem is, Im quite happy. Magic find is fine i think because all it does from what you said is make better quality drops but at the cost of power. If you're going to be a boss killer or something you're going to have to be extra skilled to give up damage/survivability to catch mf on your gear. All i see happening is decent/good gear is going to be more affordable. Godly gear will always still be expensive because u need correct stats + high rolls to be considered godly.
I said at the end that I’m thrilled that this is my biggest problem. I love the new rarity system and I’m super excited for the game
I really wish they'd just delete magic finding as a concept altogether. It makes balancing the game a nightmare, it's not worth it.
Yeah, not a huge fan of MF. Pal had a good talk about this during one of the interviews with Jonathan (pre 3.25 maybe??) where he pointed out that it kind of shoehorns players into builds that can AFFORD to lose affixes to rarity. As someone who plays with barely workable gear to begin with, not super excited for it. Good, level-headed take though!
Game isn't even out yet and people are already worried about everything.
lmao, ikr
If you made it through all 5 minutes, you’d see it was my only fear with the game. But you probably just commented after reading the title
@@aer0 your choice of title feels wrong. game isn't out but already it's like "POE'2's Biggest Problem." Like bruh... what about.. "a little concern in the back of my mind about poe2..." would have been better. and no, I'm not worried about it yet, game isn't even out yet lol
The same way that people can be excited b/c they take what's in the game and what GGG has stated at face value works equally with things they can be concerned about for the same reasons.
@@aer0then stop making silly videos with silly titles maybe ?🤡😂
I dont think it will
Why?
becouse 6 portal deafance is dead
So you risking way more lowering power of your build
Aspacjaly defensive once - wich was what we where cutting on PoE1
I hope that Content level gonna increase that way more than we have with rarity
the only problem that poe 2 has is that its not out yet.
Thought it was going to be about server load on release. But instead it's about something none of us know for now. Rare dislike.
We know exactly how rarity works (they told us). I explained my concern for how they’re going to balance it.
2:50 FYI, tiers of mods are reversed from poe 1. e.g. Tier 1 is lowest, tier 13 is highest (for now).
Biggest problem is tubers and thinking they know something about something that hasn’t even been released yet. I got a great idea let ppl play the game 1st before giving ppl some horseshit lame brain synapsis that you believe is important. Well… it’s not.
Did you even watch the video?
@@Watch_Derekyes I did & it’s nothing but his opinion.
It’s actually mostly me explaining the function of rarity which is all directly from Jonathan’s mouth. Feels like you have a problem with a “tuber” having an opinion. Lmfao wild comment, no shot you watched all 5 minutes 🤣
Synapsis
@@aer0his problem isn’t with the tuber. It’s with this half-ass “analysis” vid. Something Jonathan said an hour ago could already have been changed. They’ve been vocal about the fluidity of EA and how this is a time for them to fix things and change things. Your clickbait video title presents this as some already-existing inherent issue with the game in a completely disingenuous fashion. He’s completely right. Let people play the game and if there are problems, GGG will fix them in short order. Likely faster than a majority of the player base would even hear about them, except for videos like this.
PoE 2's biggest problem _so far._ ;)
That’s true we haven’t had a chance for day 1 servers to be the biggest 🤣
I mean, I know y'all need to farm engagement and stuff before launch, but why make videos like this? Why are you joining the throng of content creators trying to figure out the game and get people worried about everything before the game is even out to discover?
Did you even watch haha
@ Yeah. You’re turning a system you haven’t been able to fully explore and see the results of in a game you haven’t played the EA build/balances of that isn’t released yet into a potential “problem.” Joining the creators who are already trying to get the playerbase thinking they’re might be issues with a game that isn’t out yet.
I don’t care how many demo builds you got to play, you have no idea how the system will work in EA, and rather than taking the opportunity to hype up what will be a HUGE base of new and returning players to get them excited for the new game that no one has figured out yet, you’re turning out the same “analysis” stuff trying to create problems you have no info on to speak authoritatively about. And if you did get your hands on leaked info from a data mine, why not keep it to yourself and let people enjoy the start of the game?
POE already has a large problem with videos and creators like this influencing the opinions of players before they even get their hands on a new league. Tryhards and minmaxers talking about “league is dead” because of changes that don’t affect most players, etc. This is a blank canvas and a fresh start. Why make this video if not to bait people and farm engagement on stuff that isn’t figured out and could negatively impact people’s feelings on the game going in or give them a sense of self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias when they don’t get excellent drops right away or something?
I watched the video. The question stands. In my perspective, this is not a positive for the community.
i think you got it a bit wrong there: mf/quant in poe1 made more stuff drop / more uniques etc so you just get ALOT more rares and uniques in generell also more really good ones.
rarity in poe2: is not more uniques not more rares just better ones, its basicly the same for like lets say t0 uniques or really good rares but way less ulsess trash.
thats how i see it and thats the reasoning behind it i think. so its basicly as good as before and insdead of dropping 200 rares per map that u never even iding u maybe drop 5 thats are wroth iding per map. i think its good. the only thing im concerned about is grp play and abusing rarity like crazy, like 6 man party with a culler that has 1000%rarity, that would mean lots of loot (because of 6 players that all add quant) and than insane lvls of rarity that could in theory just pump out mirror tier items with insane rolls. that could be a little too strong if MF is scalable that high.
but for normal play i dont see a problem and grp play was kinda always busted, i hope its a little less busted in poe2.
Hey guys, I wanna tell you about the biggest problem about a game I havent played yet... Please help me feed my overlord the algorithm...must...stay...relevant
GGG flew me to LA to play it actually.
Thanks for the comment btw, great for the algorithm ♥️
I’ll tell you what I think. The POE community doesn’t need content t like this. You make sweeping assumptions about how the new rarity system is going to “feel”, wrap it up with a clickbait title and then try to walk it back at the end by saying hopefully GGG will balance it. The game isn’t out yet. Frame the video as speculation, not with a title that is a declarative statement saying that you know the game is biggest problem before it’s even out yet.
If you watched this whole 5 minute video and still feel this way, idk what to tell you. I explained my feelings pretty thoroughly.
WOO FIRST COMMENT!
LIKED
WOO!
The biggest problem of a game we havent played yet kekw youtuber are getting out of control
@@benjamincl2409 we can’t talk about things we know exist in a game with 8 years of experience of how game systems function? Sounds like you read the title and couldn’t watch a 5 minute video for some context
What would be the biggest problem if a mega volcano erupted right now? Wait, can’t talk about that. It hasn’t happened yet.
@@aer0 Sounds like you are out of idea for youtube video
@@Crimsontimmy it actully happen alot before.. nice try
@@benjamincl2409 did I say before? I said right now. How will current cities and populations handle such an event. Poe1 existed so we know what happened before, do you know what will happen exactly right now or in the future? The point is it’s a speculation or prediction.
Man, this is so absurdly click baity. The game hasn't even been released. We don't know how strong rarity will be. If its too strong that's the point of an early access. If its not useful they'll adjust that too. Why... why do this.
If you made it through all 5 minutes, you’d know I said I love the rarity system and that my concern was how they’re balance it on gear. Also we know exactly how rarity functions, they told us.
@aer0 no I watched it (for the record I'm usually a big fan), it just strikes me that all of this seems so premature, it's why we are having an early access. Why are we wringing our hands when the game isn't out and the whole point is to find pain points to fix before GA?
@ the video is MOSTLY objectively explaining the functions of rarity and a very small portion is my opinion on magic finding and explaining that I hope they balance it well with map rarity. I can’t fathom how this could be called hand wringing
Negative clickbait for more views lol yisus!!! POE 2 is not a final product, is a EARLY ACCESS game DUHHHHHHH, so everything is subject to change before release, so stop being negative and play the GD Game and give feed back in a cool way...
Not clickbait, I believe the title and defended why I believe it in the video. Attention grabbing, maybe.
Also if you watched the video, it’s a very measured take with mostly objective facts about rarity that we know from Jonathan. Did you even watch?
@@aer0 Yes it is because complain for Early Access game is nuts, nothing is final so " comprende" dude play the game, give them feed back and let's see what they change in the future anddddddd yes it is a clickbait
@ saying “complaining” shows me you didn’t watch lmao just move on if you don’t like me dude
@@aer0 so you think this video is not complaining?, that happen when guys act like girls never notice when complaint and say I'm not complaining lol, in Dec 6 play the early access game, submit feedback and stop crying with negative clickbait this is boring... end of conversation
@ this is super weird
listen to the big brain tell you how the game has a problem......
Sounds like we both have an opinion on the subject. Maybe make a UA-cam channel and then you can share yours! I’m sure plenty of folks would tune in
Cheers
@aer0 let me have it then. Don't be overly sensitive because someone doesn't agree with your take. I can have an opinion wherever I choose. That's the joy of free speech my man.
@ you didn’t give an opinion you just were rude lmfao?? Talking about free speech 🤣
@@aer0 maybe a little rude. Apologizes lol. But still, my point is relax. Stop fear mongering lol
@@curt685 I think you should watch the video again. It’s a pretty measured opinion.
Dun care lul.
@@eddiethesleepie thanks for watching and commenting though! Really helps ♥️