THE MASTER DUEL PROBLEM
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- AKA - Why aren't people playing YGO?
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I think the biggest hurdle is the jump in complexity from playing a video game version to paper, and just the lack of impetus to go out, buy cards, and find a place to play. From a complexity standpoint, the video game really helps facilitate how you play Yugioh. It’ll light up your cards when conditions are met, it’ll pause and ask you if you want to activate things, it gives you a neat list of cards when you search and you don’t have to ruffle through your deck and shuffle, and it just simplifies everything. The first time you play paper you suddenly have a moment where it’s like, “Oh, I have to do and remember all the steps that were just automatic.”
Going from Branded in MD to Branded in paper is wild.
You're playing a game of "How many effects now resolve in the end phase?" and you just try not to miss one.
@@NexusSpaceyand, depending on if that effect is mandatory or not, it can result in a judge call and a warning.
The other thing is just how much LONGER it takes to resolve effects, especially searching your deck or just reading cards to make sure an interaction works the way you think it does. Couple that with keeping track of OPTs, resolving delayed/lingering effects like in Branded, the fact that there isn't a comprehensive rule book to quickly check, some effects missing the timing... Heck, even which effects can be used in the damage step.
The game is too complicated and takes much longer in paper to do anything compared to MD; imagine if you had a 5 minute turn timer in paper!
For me, the biggest thing is the price tag. By far. Getting decent at a game just requires some time and practice.
In paper you have to be smart and actually know your deck. In MD everyone just clicks on highlighted cards then wonders what happened when they go to locals and brick even though they opened gas.
My pet deck is Infernoble Knight. My strongest endboard possible is Isolde, Knight Emperor Charles, Baronne, Immortal Gearfried. That's an omni-negate, monster effect negate, and a pop as well as effect targeting and destruction protection for 1 monster each in addition to a float.
On Master Duel, I can combo to that position in less than 3 minutes. In paper it might take me as long as 10 minutes depending on if my opponent insists on shuffling after every search/mill. That's for an archetype for which I know all relevant effects off the top of my head, restrictions and even the effects that never come up such as Heritage's second effect.
For me, it's price gouging. $700 just to play Kashtira where there's always a chance the deck gets nerfed into oblivion is enough for me never wanting to touch paper.
Then just don't play kash? No one forces anyone to play the best deck. You could also play decks like branded or d-link and have a good chance.
@@bl00by_ You're illustrating the exact problem with the price gouging. These people who want to play kash get met with a 700 pricetag on a product likely to not be worth it in the long run, so they're forced to play branded and d-link, like you suggested, a deck they might not like but are forced into because of the price gouging. Nothing kills a game faster than being forced into a deck you don't like because of money constraints, because that will just annoy you every time you play the game leading into you not playing at all
@@bl00by_how much is lubellion again?
There's a ton of viable cheap choices though.
@@bl00by_what about those who think kash looks cool, or they like the playstyle? Sure you can cut corners for cost but its still not going to be cheap. If my favorite deck is $200+ on paper vs (maybe, its gacha) 50$ on MD I'd rather spend my money on MD and play anyone at anytime compared to paper
I'm trying to get my roomate into yugioh, and we've spent about a month learning gx-era cards. She's finally dipped her toes into synchros, and we bought a speed duel box the other day.
It's really opened my eyes that, unless you're willing to sit through hours and hours of how to use cardboard the right way, Yugioh is actually kinda hard to get into.
As someone who’s made attempts to introduce friends who play other TCG’s to Yugioh, nothing quite tops the look of fear I get whenever I show them Modern Yugioh Cards.
I’ve said it before, we’re all playing a Children’s Card Game that’s been designed specifically for Lawyers.
@@shanehaney6040 "Card game for lawyers" is exactly what my friend said the other day, when I was offhandedly talking about the difference between discarding, sending to the grave, destroying in the hand, etc. I gotta admit she's right.
I think it really helps to start off in a different format then slowly bring someone up. GX is a good start as it's when effects really started being relevant along with the Extra Deck.
I hope people realize this honestly just how long running TCG are. When I got back into commander for mtg it took me months to really be comfortable playing in locals and figure out the game again.
I haven't played since 2010 and ot's took me a week to learn everything relevent to decks i like and have a general understanding of how the meta decks work.
For me, I don't have much interest in the paper game because of the price. I know that the cost for decks decreases significantly after you acquire staples, and watching Pak's series about playing with the new traptrix was certainly enticing, but I can play any of master duel's top most competitive decks for free whenever I want. I don't need to shill out hundreds of dollars to establish a baseline of staples that I can then use from then on because I got those staples online for free. It's part of why I stopped playing duel links in favor of master duel, and it's part of why I played master duel over other games like vanguard zero. It's so easy to build any deck, and even though I enjoy the experience of playing the physical game, the online simulator is good enough.
You explained my reasoning better than I ever could lol
One of the main problems is that for most people there is no casual scene; so there is nothing between masterduel and the competitive environment of locals.
Yes, actually. Yugioh players have this attitude that only competitively viable decks should ever be used, and they openly mock people for daring to run anything outside of the current meta. It's like they forgot that games are about fun, and not just winning. This is the thing MtG does right that Yugioh doesn't even consider... if the vast majority of your playerbase isn't 100% casual who will never even consider looking at tournament footage or info, your card game is going to fail.
Card games make their money from casuals buying booster packs. Competitive players don't buy boosters as many boosters, preferring to grab the singles they need to optimize their deck. Second-hand purchases do not make the company any money at all.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 This
If you don't want to play meta then don't go to real tournaments. Pokemon doesn't have casual tournaments either. Nobody is spending money for a casual audience that doesn't ever show up.
@@wardy4903But, Pokemon has set rotations, and it's really easy to just go to a store and buy the latest meta deck in the form of a structure deck if you want to play in the current meta.
the 'casual' scene is literally just playing with like-minded people in a non-tournament setting, although the power of decks will still vary widely.
It just sounds wild to hear shareholders raise legit concerns for viability of the game. While they are in it for the money, they seem to have more then enough knowledge to recognize how Konami is faltering when it comes to this game.
Do they?
They're expecting a decent conversion of players... _from_ Master Duel _to_ paper play? That doesn't make any sense. Master duel is infinitely more convenient for new players, I'd go as far to say "too convenient." Why would ANYONE go from MD to paper if they weren't already playing paper? It's cheaper, it's automated, and it's already in your home if you own a device that can play it.
The point about surrendering is also laughable. It's an ocg exclusive problem that's literally as easy to solve as just letting people surrender. I suppose you'd need _some_ knowledge of the game to know _HOW_ big of a change this would be, but it doesn't take any of that knowledge to know something as basic as forfeiting a duel should be allowed.
The bright side is, since this is coming from shareholders, Konami might actually do something about it.
When players say for years yugioh is dying, the immediate response was derision and ridicule. When konami shareholders say they have "concerns" then everyone gets scared. We fucked around for so long and now we are about to find out.
I honestly think paper is just a dying breed and these people are super desperate to keep their investments alive when in reality they just ned to switch focus to master duel. Its like master duel is so much more new player friendly and more accessible to a wider audience that its not even a competition. No new or casual player is gonna go through the paper format deck building process as well as the effort of finding a place near them that holds locals enough that its worth their time making plans and setting a day aside. Its much easier and cheaper to pick up your nearest gaming device, load up master duel, and start playing ranked or events than it is to build a deck, an extra deck, and a side deck as well as finding a place near you, making sure its a reasonable distance away, setting time out of your schedule to go to an event. Like i dont wanna play yugioh once a month, i wanna play yugioh after i get off work and come home every day. And i wanna do it without having to take out a second mortgage on my house.
@@tmoney1487 Playing the game is pretty cheap now, it is more about the time investment you're talking about. Of course you won't be able to get ulti thrusts or anything like that, but a deck playable at locals isn't bad at all anymore
@@tmoney1487 If MD is the only way to play Yugioh, I will just quit Yugioh. MD sucks. It will always suck. No best of 3 and dealing with Maxx C and other stupid garbage. Thanks, but no thanks.
Master Duel is like that neglected child their parents (Konami) didn't really expect to perform well but somehow did anyway and now affecting their brothers (OCG/TCG) for being too successful to the point of being called a "problem" child.
For some reason it doesn't have all the cards though tbh
If YGO plays like a fighting game, it specifically plays like one of those fighting games where you die in one hit, like Bushido Blade or Hellish Quart. This is a game where the "midgame" is the second player's first turn and the "late game" is the first player's second turn.
YGO is like a hyper fighter like Marvel/Anime. you get touched once and gets comboed to death
No it’s not (also dropkick is the premier example)
It’s a fighting game dominated by touch of death characters like kazuya or Luigi where a single “hit”’ wins you the game
Yeah the midrange (all rounders) and stun (zoners) can be played they are outclassed because the mechanics are so weighted in the favour
Something that MBT didn't touch on that is very important is price. Obviously deck making is very expensive, but with master duel being a free to play game, its not an issue. Just spend some gems and you get a deck that could cost you hundreds IRL.
Price is true but also not a factor in the ocg
Yeah, even if you do pay for gems, it will still be way cheaper and faster to build a deck in MD compared to paper.
This is definitely true for TCG play but a lot less true for the OCG, where decks are a lot cheaper thanks to better rarity distributions and packs only costing 150 yen (about like $1.30 rn).
@@lamiaprincess6371 Why is that the case though? Why does it cost less to play the game where it originates from as opposed to playing elsewhere?
@@sanic007 TCG: "Hello, I like money"
Duelist A or Duelist B is the most fun I’ve ever had on master duel. Watching two idiots summon a weird boss monster or pull off an insane Chaos Seed FTK always has me laughing until I’m in shambles.
All fine and dandy until Bishbaalkin hits the board and DistantCoder gets Vietnam Flashbacks
@@Shiftinggers"STAAAWWWWW-PUHH!" - DistantCoder
@@Shiftinggers "why is the this keep happening?! stoooop dude stooooop!"
Infinite Chaos Seed is my fave gimmicky niche card combo.
Waste of time to spectate.
I feel like you missed two very significant issues with conversion from master duel to paper.
1) Price - You can get competitive meta decks in master duel for completely free. - In paper play you pay 550€ or more for a singular kashtira deck.
2) Accessibility - For master duel you boot up a computer, and if you have internet access you can play. - To play TCG I would have to drive for 40 minutes to get to the next Locals.
Devil's advocate for point 1) Master Duel is a free-to-play game with microtransactions and sometimes opening packs will bone you. I've spent more money than i care to admit to get the card i'm looking for and the grind of accumulating crafting points (Which all the good cards are UR and dismantling only gives you 10, depending on the foil style, so you better pray to RNG that you get the right one.) to make your deck.
@@Ryan-qr3xg
You are completely right,but I will never pay a single cent for a free to play game. I don't play every day but I've almost made it to diamond and have a bystial dragon Link deck and a spright melffy deck all free. Currently sitting on 4600 gems and will be close to 6k after the event ends.
@@Ryan-qr3xg even as a free to play game Master duel does exceedingly well in making it so that you don’t have to pay real money to get good cards
@@Ryan-qr3xg You can get more cards for free in MD than in real life. IRl is gacha unless you buy cards from people. Those cards from people vary greatly in price. In MD the rarity is the rarity and all N/R rarity cards may as well be free with how many crafting points you get for them from free gems.
In MD the worst case scenario still gets you a free Meta deck by just playing the game for casual fun. Paper that is impossible.
@@youngroosevelt38 as someone who's a little out of the loop regarding master duel, is reaching diamond a challenge now? At the very least within the first few months of MD reaching diamond was REALLY easy, but I'm curious if that's become harder due to the higher player counts now
I think the complexity part is understated, despite how much it was talked about. Master Duel being a simulator gives you *far* more information about what you can do than playing on paper. You know what plays are legal, you don't have to go through rulings because resolution is handled automatically, the game tells you if a once per turn effect has been activated or not, etc.
Definitely a huge part of it. I'm horrible at putting together how a deck is supposed to work just from reading the cards and need to see it in action to have any idea of how to play it. In MD, I'm constantly seeing brand new lines open up or being reminded about card text I've forgotten about from all the prompts, I never miss a chance to declare or resolve an effect I might have otherwise with all the chains and interactions going off, and I can always work my way back through the log and find out what effect or lock prevented me from making the play I wanted and learn to avoid it next time. It's an amazing teaching tool for learning how all the pieces you're playing with and against function, but if you use it as a crutch you're going to get slaughtered in paper play.
People usually assume the mental work of playing is trivial, but it's the haardest part of the game.
I can't say I that surprised, though. Given how many restrictions there are on note-taking at official events, Konami seems to assume perfect short-term memory is a common trait among humans.
It reminds me of years ago there was 2 yugioh simulators. One where everything was manual and the other where chains resolved automatically.
The manual one had its charm but having to explain how the opps cards worked got tiring.
@@DrLong-js9qo It's like how Apple decided to combat piracy by making a iTunes instead of suing everyone.
People want to play Yugioh, but modern decks expect you to take three left turns to turn right.
For me it really is as simple as I do not want to spend hundreds on cardboard.
Real life non-f2p card games are an utter scam
@@__-be1gk not really. if you have fun that's all that matters
@@__-be1gk yeah say that again 20 yrs ago when yo snotty ass ate sand. these whole digital era sht also started from paper fyi
@@hangfire5944 careful with the irresponsible takes. no easier way to ruin your own life than carelessly dumping your money for the sake of "fun"
@@hangfire5944 Gambling addicts be like :
I think the biggest difference between MD and OCD/TCG is that you have to know what each card does and how it properly works. With MD the game tells you when you can use card effects and when you cannot. With paper yugioh it’s up to you to know when you can use card and not cause an illegal play. You have to know what effects are applied correctly with your cards and your opponent. Sure this sort of thing comes with time but with how different each format works it’s extremely difficult to do so.
It's like having a calculator vs doing maths in your head. Yeah it's good to know how these things manually, but realistically it's not needed in today's age. You can focus your time and effort on other things.
Im surprised you also didnt talk about the price, master duel is a really ftp friendly game if you are willing to do your dailes every day and its verry ez to craft staples with the dust you get from the bp. Meenwhile a playset of prospy still costs 120$ minimum.
Fr. A couple of days ago i was deciding between swordsoul or spright and im just missing 120 UR. Which may be obtained on the next event lol
You can analyze the differences between the meta and the competitive environment between Master Duel and paper for as long as you like, but the number one barrier will always be money.
true, the most appealing thing about master duel is that its FREEEEEEE
new player finds MD and enjoys a certain deck and thinks " hmm this is kinda neat and i would like ot try the paraper formats, maybe i can build my deck there too"
only ot realise that apart from some of their card possibly not being legal to play, the deck as a whole is anywhere from 150 to 700+ dollars ot assemble(to not evne start on cards that likely will never be forbidden because of whatthey cause ot deck building like Extravagance being busted but forcing ppl ot pack extra copies of ED cards.).
The price problem is not as bad in the OCG, yet it seems like they're not getting that much of an influx of new players there either. I'd say the biggest problem is complexity.
This is probably one of the most Bullshit games you're ever going to play (And I mean Yugioh as a whole). Because there is *No* way you're going to win with skill alone. Not when a.) They keep changing the rules. b.) What cards you're allowed to use. c.) Which cards actually *Work.* And d.) Eventually banning whatever good cards you can use in favor of newer, more complicated ones. There's no consistency here.
*EDIT: No other competitive game I've played forces you to shell out so much Money just to stand a chance. Like that other guy's comment above stated, any game where you're paying up to 700 dollars just to avoid getting stomped by your opponents ain't a good one. *
I used to think I was just a bad player in general when it came to other meta-games. But after playing Yugioh at it's worst, my confidence for those games has now skyrocketed. Solely for the fact that while those games are hard, *at least you're actually on equal footing with your opponents.*
@SabeNo-rh7mb I'm sorry are there cards that your opponent is allowed to use but you can't? No? Then you are by definition on equal footing. I don't know what your issue with yugioh is (and there are plenty of issues to choose from) but a level playing field ain't it. That's why they change the ban list in the first place.
As someone who plays master duel every day but doesn't play paper, there are only two reasons why I think master duel players don't play paper
1) master duel is free and if you play every day it's not hard to build the top deck once a month once you get all your staples. paper play on the other hand costs hundreds just to get a half decent core that may last you a few months before becoming obsolete.
2) actually playing people in person. The only time I've met with people irl to play a game was when my fighting game local was a 10 min walk away, you can't convince me to drive out to play a card game with some people when I can just play master duel in my own room.
That seems ridiculous. You never go to a friend's house to play Mario Kart or something. You don't go to a movie theatre with a group and hang out afterwards. You don't set up board game nights (like Cards Against Humanity) with some Coworkers?
Going to a card shop isn't that different than those. You are dedicating some time to travel for the human interaction. Online dueling is a completely different experience than playing with a person.
Not to mention remembering the rulings,numbers, and timing by hand. Everything is more automatic and its harder to make mistakes or misunderstandings in the ocg.
Yeah, I feel like it was obvious master duel wouldn't translate into any more players for paper play because the two target audiences based on the business model are just... completely different?
How was this not foreseeable? People who are ok with sinking big bucks into paper play are absolutely not the people who are willing to spend an hour a day or so grinding a bit with gems at a free-to-play game while bored. The level of passion for the game are completely different. And again, especially the TCG is completely unable to be coupled with MD just because Maxx "C" exists. Oh cool, all your decks devote 1/4 of their space to Maxx "C" shenanigans and who knows what else and combo decks are basically unviable? Yeah, your bad luck, basically remake your deck.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 Why is it ridiculous? There is a huge gap in time, effort and money spent between booting up a game on your PC, phone or console and buying a deck irl and going to an LGS, of which the closest to you may or may not be pretty far away (the closest one to me is about an hour and a half away, not insignificant). Plus, the difference between meeting up with your buddies and making your first trip to a game store to play with strangers is also pretty big imo
To further your first point, not only can you do it for free, but should you decide to buy cards in this format, it probably won't cost you nearly as much because if you don't pull what you want you can disenchant....sorry, uncraft them and use that to make the cards you desire.
I think money is also a big problem. I mean, why would I spend 200 dollars on a playset of prosperity when I can use it in master duel for free? I mean, the rarity collection seems like it'll fix this somewhat, however cards like garura, accesscode, etc are still incredibly expensive, and a lot of master duel players aren't gonna make that investment when the free sim works just fine
There's another problem linked to that, and it's that it will be bought out instantly and never printed again, meaning that if you miss that Rarity Collection pack, then, as a new player, you'll have to spend much more money than anyone else just because you weren't there at the time.
One thing I find frustrating with Master Duel is the search function when looking for cards to use in the deck builder. It needs to only show cards that have the exact text you typed. As it is it often shows loads of very loosely related cards to what you typed and it can be an impossible chore looking through them all to find what you want.
Yes! Like if I'm searching "Level 1 monsters" I don't want "Level," "1" and "monsters." No, I want "level 1 monsters" all together in the text.
Half agree. It helps me find certain cards like royal decree for the monster type festival, cause I can type key words like trap, negate, etc and find some cards you normally don’t see cause they aren’t overused staples
Thats good.
New players can just type somthing like banish, or negate and get a laundry list of cards theyve never seen or heard of before.
I speak from experince.
It would also be nice if you could have cards you don’t own show up lore consistently
I was trying to construct a deck from a prebuilt and since it’s master duel was looking for maxx C
Wasn’t there instead I had to search it in a public deck ti copy over and then add it to my deck for when I got enough material to craft it
The biggest problem I have with going to paper is that rules and the mass amount information on cards. If the the cards text and effects were more streamed lined it would help with essays on the cards.
I always liked how they do bullet points in the OCG. That’s something that gets lost in translation.
And now the MD has a checklist system of what effects has been activated, highlight of what effect activates, + imperm column...yea beat that paper plays.
Read this from a casual/newbie perspective.
@@Dz73zxxx I've been playing competitive yugioh since the DM days and I quit playing competitive basically because of that. These walls of text that make it so hard to read and comprehend the effects and how they work, especially when you're in a timed tournament. Then there's Master Duel that, with these new updates, make it so much easier to understand what the hell is going on.
Yugioh can greatly benefit from keywording
As someone who also plays magic, the problem solving card text Is a huge boon. Some of the magic cards are just... Damn nearly incomprehensible. especially the german cards, despite beeing our native language, its a group effort to decipher some effects, and require knowledge of Rule 532b.
Yugioh cards do not have that problem.
There are at least 3 different translations for the keyword flash. "Aufblitzen", "Blitz" and "Sekundenbruchteil".
And i prefer having the keyword explained on the card anyway. Escape summons a creature to the field from graveyard, unearth puts it in your hand. Noone can keep track of all that.
I'm thankful to Master Duel for introducing me to archetypes I didn't know that became my favourites. However, it annoys me how long I have to wait for support that was released months ago.
*Still waiting for the Galaxy Support after they shot down the banlist all the cards that made the deck playable before Photon Hypernova*
I mean there’s also the fact that making a competitive deck with in paper cards is super expensive, especially in the tcg
Play retro
Doesn't have to be, depending on what deck you want to play. Traptrix is extremely cheap for how much you get out of it, for example.
@@AcroxShadowthe problem is the cost to play what I want to. Yeah theres always cheaper deck options but the gap between a cheaper meta deck and idk stuff like kashtira is huge. Like I wish yugioh followed how pokemon splits rarities it has a collectable high rarity and much more common regular version that is generally cheaper.
@@kuriboharmythat will never happen because that would make sense and konami is a fucking shit for brains absurd clown show.
@@rasenganb41vtx Even older formats are getting pricy now because the lack of reprints and availability of said cards. That happens because these older formats become more popular. If Konami really wanted to support these older formats they would do massive reprint sets.
I think another thing that's also probably really frustrating for new players aside from just handtraps, is the amount of decks that can just combo off when it's not even their turn. Floo for example, it's like, ok they had their turn, now it's my turn! Then you have the audacity to play a monster, so now that triggers ten different effects that let them tribute YOUR monster, and combo off building a bigger board while you're just sitting there like "I thought it was MY TURN???"
facts i'm new to the game i that is so frustrating..... i keep asking my screen how does this make any sense..... my opponent plays on their turn, then on my turn, only to lay cards that negate anything i was gonna play.
About two months ago I decided to get my first paper Yugioh deck. Gate Guardian Branded (heavily inspired through your TMT, I thought i could do better - and I did!). Before that time I had only played playground yugioh in paper. Through the years my general knowledge grew with online play (YGOPro, Omega, a bit of Master Duel) and watching videos.
Three visites at my locals later I was shocked about the competetive nature of the players there. A meme of "losing to gate guardian" had formed. I had won a single match at the loser's table, all three times I've been there.
But me being myself I decided to build a Yugioh Cube out of my friends leftover cards (a draft enviroment out of 360 hand-picked cards) [draft meaning been dealt 15 random cards, pick one, the rest rotates clockwise until all are picked]. They consist of Sychros, XYZs, Dragon Rulers, Flip-Monsters, Lightsworn and Equip-Spell beatdown. It's heaps of fun, even for two players from my locals - they both liked a casual muliplayer yugioh setting.
Coming from Magic the Gatering Commander - a groud up casual 4-player format where peeps sit down and build cool/scary/thematic boardstates and smack eachother - you can clearly see my background and prefered playstyle shining through.
Yugioh is tryhard, but offering them casual multiplayer fun (without floodgates) sometimes peaks their curiosity. The best of both worlds.
I'm out, gotta do some preparations for the next Yugioh Cube Draft in four hours. A new guy from my locals will be joining aswell :P
You're talking to a magic player, of course mbt knows what cube is.
His name literally stands for Mono Blue Tron, a way to play the tron deck
@@Sillimant_ The explanations are of course for yugioh readers lol
Events like Legend Anthology, Theme Chronicle and N/R show that Master Duel can be accomodating to new players and fresh for old players at the same time. If with these, things like Goat, Edison and even TOSS format were sprinkled into the event rotation I feel like the game could see more consistent casual play, because events like the Festivals are still modern yugioh at the end of the day, too similar for most regular players and still too complex for beginners.
I also really want a Tournament mode, similar to Rocket League or Smash Bros where you can enter at specific times to compete in Bo3 and get familiar with an actual tournament setting with side decking.
even then those aren't really new player friendly, since it's very possible to build degenerate strategies that will completely blindside said new players.
Things like N/R are easily my favorite kind of events.
I really think time wizard is the way to go and official konami branding and support would go a long way. New players have no idea what 'goat' or 'edison' means even though they are the exact experience many are looking for.
@@luigifan4585 I kinda agree with you because I remember having to learn Metalfoes and how to stop them while playing N/R format but at least the cards were simple enough to do that quickly. Its like easing them into playing against all the big decks like Tearlament or Labrynth or god forbid a new player queues up against Fur Hire Runick Spright lmao
@@ducky36F Oh yeah for sure, I only use those terms because its what I know them as.
To me the biggest problem with going from master duel to paper is price. Nothing like going from crafting a baron for free to looking at prices on tcg player and seeing it at 50-70$. Trying to build a meta deck is like a whole paycheck. Even for many rouge decks needing staples to avoid getting OTK’d or dismantled turn 2 is pretty much mandatory. I love playing @ignister but I know it’s barley going to win or even do well at a locals.
Woah Woah woah dont diss the ignisters like that....we got the sauce
@@AJDaBoneless I know @ignister was the first deck I ever brought to locals. Nothing like making kash players go to game 2 after making my 6K wall.
As a former tcg player and current Master duel player this is it for me. I was always a budget player back then and with the way the world is now I'm even mote broke than before but the cards are even more expensive. When I can play basically any deck for free on MD why would I get back into paper? I've got more decks on MD than the 25 slots will fit and it cost me absolutely nothing. I'd love to collect physically again but its just too pricey to consider.
Why do you even want to play meta? Obviously, a meta deck is more expensive, there are so many budget versions for the game. I mean you can get a full competitive Traptrix deck for like 20-30 bucks.
@@Samaraku I mean it’s nice to 4-0 locals sometimes and the people winning are playing meta. Also traptrix causes brainrot so no thank you 😂😭
I think another problem with MD is its hard focus on the singular ranked experience. I hadn't played since around 2013, and jumped back into MD. It was fun building most of a modern deck with my starter gems, but that fun ran out very quickly. By the time I got through all those gems, I was discovering UR staples I hadn't learned about yet, and that the deck I'd built just wasn't good enough to compete with what was out there. And the only way for me to alleviate that problem was to grind the ranked mode against the same handful of top tier decks, FTK bots, and Numeron Andys. Casual Mode gets you nothing, and I couldn't participate in any of the Festival events because the one deck I was able to build was loaded with Link Monsters, in an attempt to catch up to the modern cardpool.
An easy solution to all of this would be the addition of daily/weekly gems for Casuals, or the inclusion of alternate format ranked ladders, but without any of that I quickly lost any and all motivation to continue with Master Duel. It just isn't fun to play the way Konami wants.
I think the fighting game comparison is pretty accurate, having matchup knowledge is just as important in ygo as it is in fg's. Every time I face a new strategy at locals (first time playing against purrely, r-ace, mannadium, etc) it usually ends up going to time, since I'm trying to learn the matchup as I go and what 4 different effects each card has from 4 different zones is a lot. A new player WILL absolutely lose over and over and over again especially if they don't invest in a top-10 deck and staples. If someone is new to the game AND playing a bad deck there's just no hope. Me personally, as someone who loves fighting games, I absolutely do NOT mind losing over and over and over again, and so now I'm at a point where I can go x-1 pretty often but if I didn't have the mindset of a fighting game player (and someone who previously played magic the gathering competitively for over a decade), yes it's very intimidating and frustrating for a new player to learn 20 years' worth of mechanics all at once culminating in the modern ygo experience we have today where 1 combo can require 20 actions like Dragon Link etc. On top of getting absolutely blown out by extremely powerful insta-win cards like Shifter/Evenly/Nib/etc. if these resolve and you have no answer sometimes it can absolutely shut down your entire strategy. I cannot imagine getting 90% of magic players I know into ygo and they absolutely don't want to learn anyways. In Magic you're pretty much on an even playing field and you can plainly see if your opponent has resources available to do something like counter your spell or destroy your creature. In ygo it can fly out of nowhere and smack you in the face and you instantly lose. Enough rambling but yeah basically tl;dr unless someone is extremely competitive and has no problems with losing (not many) and has about $500 to pick up solely staples they are not going to get into yugioh at any serious level.
I still can't believe master duel is a full year behind on sets, the only card game like that, and no one at Konami seems to realize it's a problem.
A year? Damn
Only a year? Red Eyes Alternative isn't in the game and it's been out for what, 4 years? The game randomly is just missing swaths of cards from awhile back, seemingly wholly at random.
I don't think it's entirely fair to say that Master Duel is a year behind the OCG, considering it releases cards on a completely different schedule from the paper game, but the fact that we still don't have all the cards from DABL, a set that released a year ago in the OCG, and have zero cards from AMDE, a set that released 11 months ago in the OCG, is pretty insane.
@@honorableintent To be fair, Red-Eyes Alternative Black Dragon and other cards drawn by Kazuki Takahashi are not in Master Duel, its theorized because of copyright issues but that's not confirmed.
@@honorableintent I want my ciber Jar, I won't use it but it would be a nice detail
I think an unspoken part of this is that people don’t do community activities nearly as much as they used to. All group activities across communities are down on avg, be it sports,games etc. it’s hard to invest in a game you have no one to play with.
There’s also a lot of people in this comment section who are like:
“I don’t play paper because while I do own a PC that allows me to play the game I have no friends and the nearest sign of a civilized settlment where I could find a card shop is at 25kms from my position, and only if I’m ready to face the impervious mountains and traverse the ferocious bears-infested forests.”
Like bro I’m not saying I know the conditions you live in better than you, and of course if MD is the only accessible way for you to play YGO all the power to you. But there ain’t no way this game is not getting new players because everyone who’s interested in playing it inhabits the caves in the depths of the Marianas Trench.
@@KoriKeiji You must live in a bubble. Loneliness has been on a rise for a while now. A lot of mass shooters were terminally online incels.
@@deepseadarew6012 They're saying it can't be that EVERY person playing Master Duel is so physically isolated from any paper-playing communities they simply can't engage in playing irl despite being willing otherwise, as some commenters say is their situation, not anything about loneliness or social anxiety or etc.
@@Gantann I would agree with that. I think too what your locals looks like has everything to do with how you’ll enjoy yugioh. I’m fortunate to have a really positive locals that is competitive, but the people don’t gatekeep out newer players. People will take time to help others improve and grow to run with the pack.
If your scene doesn’t look like that, I can’t see how a new player would want to stick with it.
@@carterbowman6916 Same, I have a really lovely local scene where the core group basically inducted me by inviting me to their Discord server the very first time I went to check out the scene, before I even had a deck. I've heard enough locals horror stories to know bad vibes can completely kill someone's interest in the game.
It was a HUGE mistake they didn't include a legacy format (goat, edison or something similar) during the game's release. All these returning players wanting to relive their yugioh nostalgia find themselves facing a wall of complexity and a game that looks like nothing they remember. Sure some of them got pass through that but a lot of them didn't.
mr pleb is here too FatSnipe
There are even old cards that to my knowledge cannot be crafted, or simply do not exist in the game's card database. Where's Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity? Or if you're in my generation, Negate Attack from GX? I've tried searching for them before (back when I still played) in the Deck Creation menu and I didn't get any results.
@@boyishdude1234 And there are too many Ultra Rares. Serious.
@@boyishdude1234 I think the game just straight up doesn't let you search cards that are banned. Terraforming got banned right after I started playing and I can't find it, even though I know it's in the game somewhere. I've also seen youtubers use Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity in Master Duel, so they must be in the game, but maybe can only be used in decks used in private duel rooms or something.
Edit: I checked back, when you go into deck building, you have to reset the restrictions from Standard to Unlimited.
@@teapartypenguin1353 Oh, I see. I wasn't even aware that you could change the restrictions in the search menu.
I actually love how master duel handles card releases. It permitted new decks to emerge and strategies that released power crept in OCG and TCG to shine for a bit.
But it really doesn’t? The top decks in OCG and TCG are still the top decks in MD. Like we are right now in tear format, much like we were in the TCG and OCG for a time. Before that it was spright format, like in the OCG and TCG, and I could keep going back format after format. Being upwards of a year behind paper play means master duel players are constantly playing into a solved format. Even if Kashtira has a few hits when it comes to MD(like tear did), I guarantee you it will be the best deck unless they are hits that make the deck unplayable. And any “new strategies or decks” only appear due to MD being a best of 1 format with a unique banlist. MBT even says that in this video with floo, which thrives in Bo1 which is why they have been hit harder here than anywhere.
@Freebird1994 you seriously think they're going to kill Kash before release ? NOPE it will be at full power except for fenrir being limited and 2 or three cards semi-limited I can't wait to main deck imperil iron wall
We just need to figure out how to make new players yugi-go to the stores.
@@user-jx1jr3gs8t I did not say that, I said kash will be the best deck UNLESS for some reason they gut it upon release, like they don’t release diablosis and Aries heart with them. I understand they will release it at basically full power. It was a what if to prove my original point
@@Freebird1994 releasing the ishizu cards before the tear cards instead of the other way around allowed a bunch of decks that abuse the ishizu cards to flourish fur a brief time before ishtear took over. it was a very interesting meta decision that i think demonstrated just how broken the ishizu cards are independent of their place in tearlament. they did a similar thing when they released runick before they released spright. the best decks in OCG/TCG often are the best in MD in some form fur some amount of time, but i don't really think you can deny that the diffurent card releases in MD means the meta is not the same as those games. i also think calling the game "solved" when YGO metas demonstrably go unoptimized before moving on due to card releases (as evidenced by the revolutions in deckbuilding that occur in historical furmats) is just kind of missing the mark, not even considering the fact that in MD the decks will be built diffurently and will be playing into diffurent opposing decks.
Probably *the* biggest obstacle I've had coming back to Yugioh after jumping ship when MR4 hit is the fact I can't just pick up and play a deck. It's so much harder to intuit how to build and play any given deck effectively that it feels like you need to spend *hours* researching a deck before you feel comfortable committing to it (and good luck if it doesn't vibe in practice).
This is bad enough as a returning player, but I can't imagine how bad it is for a new player. 10 years ago I would've been able to list off like 5 different decks that would be intuitive, easy to pick up, and reasonably competitive for a new player to learn and grow but now I don't have the foggiest clue beyond Eldlich Set 5 Turbo and that barely teaches anything of value.
As an aside, I do genuinely like that Master Duel is it's own weird format. We've gotten some interesting things out of it like early archetype releases giving life to decks that otherwise struggled (i.e. Scareclaw, Mathmech) and a unique Spright/Tear meta, but it's absolutely terrible for converting players to paper or even other sims. The monthly small banlist updates are cool and feel like they shape a more rounded format, but it constantly feels like scraping the barrel when we see things like King of the Swamp and Foolish Burial Goods get hit because of a bad day 1 list.
You’ve pretty much covered everything that I would say are part of the problem with converting people from MD to the physical game. But I feel there’s also a big part that is missing, and that is the price of the cards that are released into the new game. A meta deck could be around 500-700 depending on what your running. Now thankfully Konami has been doing a fairly good job recently with reprinting staples that are must haves (Mavens, Recent structure decks, tins, the recent battles of legends set, the new 2 player starter kit that’s been announced) but now we need to figure out a way to make competing in the TCG a more affordable thing. We can’t just wait until the mega tins come out to possibly reprint the top decks, and even then this tin I fee is gonna be very underwhelming because a majority of the meta decks that came out last year have been either slaughtered or hit to a point where they’re ok but not good. If we had the same system that the OCG has, then I feel the TCG would be more accessible and more successful than it already is.
Yes. Re-Printing cards long after their meta relevance has eclipsed is rubbing salt in the wounds.
Not to mention you can open a hundred tins and still not pull a single pot of prosperity because the desired cards are still short printed.
I think the price, multi negate boards, and cards that effectively say "unaffected by Yugioh cards" really drive away new players. Its very hard to learn what you're supposed to be doing when you're not allowed to do anything.
The worst thing that came to yugioh are those generic omni negate monsters. It takes all of the fun away but for players its the best way to keep on winning games :(
But we Don make those multi negates boards since 2019... Like... What?
@@lastchanceamvcareful meta slaves and experienced YGO players would hate you for "not being progressive" 😂
@@lastchanceamvAgreed but generic or otherwise easily splashable Link-1s are arguably just as bad.
The HERO support that got added to Master Duel during the second Gold Pass caused me to rage-uninstall the game after I got to Platinum. I can't remember its name, but it was a new Fusion Destiny HERO monster that was a generic omni-negate you could easily summon from the deck on your first turn that could endlessly revive itself during the Standby phases. I play a Code Talker deck. There was fuck all that I could do about that monster. I just started surrendering every time I saw that monster get summoned because I knew that I couldn't win no matter what I did. I'm not going to force myself to have a terrible experience against a deck that prevents me from playing the game in the first place just to get 50 points on a Battle Pass that takes too long to grind for no meaningful, commensurate rewards.
YGO is probably the only card game where you're not allowed to use the decks that you actually enjoy playing with if you want to actually win games consistently. At the very least it exists on the extreme end of the scale for that particular issue compared to other TCGs.
For anyone who's wondering, I haven't been back to Master Duel since. It's probably been well over a year since I last dueled in the game. I reinstalled it recently in the off-chance that I might get to play it with friends sometimes, but I haven't done anything beyond messing around a bit with my deck and checking out what's available in the card shop.
Sick video Joseph, always love seeing you talk in length about the health and future of YGO, at the moment I took a break and started playing Pokemon TCG with my friends, but I dearly miss the complexity and interactivity that only Yugioh offers. Thanks again for the video and take care
If you want to concede in OCG, you could just call a judge over, do something illegal (like draw cards and shuffle your hand for no reason), get a game loss, and go to game 2
Yeah the OCG surrender rules are very stupid
I don't need another info to make me less interested in ocg format man...
The whole format designed around maxx c is frustrating enough
Bruh they got so frustrated that they came up with weird loop holes. Gotta respect OCG players for that one
spraying fart spray to get a DQ for personal hygiene so I can legally scoop
It's funny how the ocg has something against shuffling your hand for no reason since that a big thing for players in the TCG 😅(makes sense though since it's both distracting and annoying.)
I wanted to get into paper play
Master duel got me back into Yu-Gi-Oh but seeing the differences between the 2 put me right back to feeling like it wouldn't be possible to learn. You said it no better MBT the skills for one don't transfer to the other and I am finding myself having to learn the game again with cards I didn't know existed at all again
For me, Price and Complexity is the major bar from me genuinely enjoying playing yugioh post 5D's era of any variety be it MD, OCG, TCG, or DL. I don't have the brain cells needed to be able to memorize 10,000 card effects, especially when about half of them have a full novel's worth of text and have infinite ways of interaction. 5D's was the absolute limit of what I was able to follow and enjoy as a player because at that point in time, most cards didn't require an assload of reading to understand them. Some of them certainly did, but not most. I also just don't have $100's of dollars to build a single paper deck that could very easily be ban-listed into the realm of unplayability at any given time; or even just simply become unable to compete with a changing meta whatsoever. At least if I spend money on master duel to buy cards at random and a deck or specific deck enabling UR gets banned, I can just dismantle the cards and build a new deck and it won't cost me probably even a 5th of the cost a paper deck would.
This is an awesome take and I love your videos. From the perspective of someone with a full time job and family, digital games (Duel Links and Masterduel) are my route and allow me to make content. The lag between paper to digital is clearly a hinderance, but I believe more emphasis could be put on it. More and more people are working from home rather than commuting as digital is everything. Even top chess tournaments are being played digitally now, which speaks volumes. The convenience well outweighs anything else for me and I’m sure there’s many others like me.
I actually really enjoy master duel having its own format and banlist. Making it like a 3rd way to play. I started actually caring about Yugioh with MD and a different banlist isn’t what stops me from paper play. I like the idea that you have to learn another format.
Being behind in cards isn’t great, I do like that things are coming out in a different order but it’s just slow and without communication about what’s next it’s hard to argue for.
Ban maxx “C”
I’d love a BO3 mode, maybe like 2 ranked ladders? Having the ability to side deck sounds extremely fun and fun to learn. Also changes how I’d think about deck building compared to BO1
"Why don't MD players translate well to the TCG?"
The obvious answer, and the big killer for a lot of games: cost. Yu-Gi-Oh with only two major formats has the eternal issue of asking "Do you want to spend $300-700 to get the latest meta deck, knowing the next set will likely power creep it down, or the next banlist might invalidate a chunk while also decreasing what you can get for selling off those pieces?"
It's the law of eternal growth. The next set needs to be strong to sell the cards. Which means the decks currently in play get weaker. Which repeats to infinity.
While YGO has the best reprint policy of the major card games, they're band aids on the issue of required eternal growth.
Yup. I only collect physical cards for my amusement and not to play on any serious capacity. Like I still have a full power Ishizu Naturia deck to play with friends because I love that deck but Konami decided that both sides of the engine should not be legal. I have 0 interest in pursuing tournament play when the cost of that is like twice what I’d spend on a Commander deck that will always be playable or on a board game that doesn’t have a banlist.
Yugioh is just a dogshit investment and I can’t bring myself to throw money away on it except for cheap gunk like Gate Guardians or Generaiders.
I mean dragon link survived for 4 years by now, if people are really so scared of their decks getting killed they should just play d-link lol
Their reprint policy is a direct RESULT of eternal formats. Other games don't reprint like YGO because their standard format isn't eternal, so reprinting makes the cards legal again.
1000% This. This is also the problem that Rotation definitely does NOT solve (having played a few different rotation games myself).
I have tried getting many friends into the game. Only as few weren't scared off by the game's complexity, but NONE OF THEM have bought cards for themselves, they are simply too expensive, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE STILL LEARNING HOW THE GAME WORKS.
I think the other big point that should be brought up is both the price/accessibility of cards and the ability to get it either all in one place or as few products as possible. Try to get someone to get into the game? Well have fun waiting weeks for 30 packages from tcgplayer for your deck and meta staples. Not to mention the prices. In a hypothetical world where MD was aligned with TCG imagine telling someone "oh you like kash? Well fenrir is $80 each in paper." They tried doing a meta focused box with duel devistator and that was a step in the right direction but then it had slots filled with bullshit cards that no one played anymore like catastor. Hope the 2 player deck box thing is what the game needs but i'm not holding out any hope for it
Another DUDE-esque box set with the obligatory filler cards being reprints of rarer Time Wizard format staples seems like a slam dunk for all parties.
@@samwikiy8514I’ve been begging Konami to just make an Edison draft box or some shit. This would help so much with old formats instead of having half an OTS pack be filled with reprints for 20 year old cards that are now $60 since they have a single high rarity print
For me its nearly 100% about cost. Started collecting after getting back into it via Master Duel. Started at looking to put a deck together to attend locals but it was like £200+ for any of the decks I'd been playing. Instead I put together a Cyber Dragon deck that I liked in MD for £40 and never bothered going.
Also I think brackets in MD also have an effect. If I want to chill in silver for a bit playing a toon deck I can. Or I can go to locals every week and lose every single match. (Note that full power toon is still likely to set you back a good £200)
You forgot to make a point about price. If you want to start playing tcg you need to drop like 100 bucks atleast for a decent deck. Everything in master duel is free.
For me, it's always been pricing over anything else. And that's across all paper tcg/ccg. I've only put $20 into Master Duel and gotten to run every deck I've wanted to. In paper, I feel I have to drop at least $50 per deck. It just makes more sense to invest my free time into MD instead of my wallet into paper.
This is a fair point but you can also sell your $50 of cardboard later. It will be at a loss for sure but if you buy a core you can almost always find someone who will buy it if it is relevant
@@cyruslyday9112 That's really only a bonus if you're competitive. If you're attached to your old cards, you don't want to sell them every 6 months. I can still remake every MD deck I've ever had.
So here’s a take from someone who’s partially a yugi boomer. I started Master Duel shortly after it came out but I hadn’t played paper since college when I had a group of friends to play with, which was aroun 2014-16ish. So MD did remind me why I liked yugioh so much. So I found an OTS and got excited to play only to realize one major issue. I didn’t have nearly enough modern cards or even staples. I hadn’t bought cards for the past 10 years so I had little to no bulk to pull from. This problem never even crossed my mind since in MD it was so easy to craft all these cards for relatively cheap if I didn’t want to high roll a UR heavy deck. So I thought, “well this shouldn’t be a problem, I’ll play budget in TCG and buy cards should be relatively cheap. So let’s do Mekk-Knights since they worked fairly well in MD”. Well that became a problem as not every card I needed for my deck was readily available. Many were still cheap, but not all had a ton of reprints it seemed or just seemingly not in stock. As a returning player it’s not a fun experience trying to build a deck from scratch with cards you can’t always get when you’re so used to getting cards easy in MD. I know there’s an issue in getting new players, but I also think there is a genuine difficulty in trying to bring back older players who look at the current game and see various hurdles like new mechanics, cars availability, or just the ease of finding an OTS. As a returning player I’m much more comfortable just being on MD, and it seems I’m not the only one from the amount of Dark Magician and Blue Eyes players we all see on ladder who just want to play what they know.
I was a tcg player but I transitioned to pretty much only playing master duel. It's just so easy and simple, can do it anytime and I prefer the format of master duel honestly. I don't mind that it is behind since I don't play the IRL formats anymore but it would be nice if it's at least a little bit less behind.
Master duel should have mtg cards so mbt can finally tron it up on camera
This reminded me what MBT's name stands for and now I suddenly hate him
That is the only way his name makes sense
@@rocapbg9518 marincess blue tang.
@@rocapbg9518 mono blue tron is based, mono green tron is cringe
@@roronoa1243 both better than eldrazi tron
I'm gonna say it. I can see a future in which paper play doesn't exist and Yu-Gi-Oh has Master Duel as its only format. Can't say with any certainty if that's something that'll happen very soon or very far in the future, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see it happen one day.
digital-only is the ultimate endgoal for companies since they can _force_ us to re-buy things since we'll never own the digital stuff, it's just numbers in the game's database and if they make a sequel they can shut down the old game after a while and make us re-buy. like, they didn't allow people to import their Duel Links cards into MD for a reason. but with that said, we're currently in a honeymoon period where the digital costs are way lower than the paper costs and YGO in particular, with its lack of set rotation, is less fixated on forcing people to buy product to keep playing, so i think it'll be a while until that dystopia rears its ugly head... at least for TCGs. we are definitely getting close to that when it comes to things like blu-rays for TV shows and movies; a lot of stuff is available _only_ on the streaming services
I was thinking this as well.
@@drewbabewhen it does the paper cards you have will be more valuable, so in the end it might have all been worth it :)
I think you've hit on a lot of good points. I definitely agree that there needs to be some better tools both to learn and understand the format and then transition into tournament play.
I think rotation is a good and important tool in that, but I think there need to be more products that teach players about link building, effects in the discard, etc.
Looking to the Pokemon TCG, we have several products that are designed for different skill levels. We have low end products like the new "My first battle" decks that teach fundamentals, "Battle Academy" that has preconstructed decks that teach more basics, both aimed at kids and beginners to grasp the rules. Then we have stuff like the Battle Decks that have more strategy to them and a general gameplan, and then you have the League Battle Decks that bridge into competitive play with both strong lists, a solid strategy, and important cards that are usable across several decks.
In contrast, Yugioh really only has Structure Decks which while cool feel like they're in between teaching how to play the game and competitive quality. I think it also loses a lot by printing only one deck at a time, instead of have pairs like in the old days that can be fine tuned to both teach and have a worthwhile amount of interplay so new players can play each other and learn some more nuances, with important tools like a couple Ash.
Also, I find it shocking that Master Duel isn't up to date. Like, Pokemon players give TCGL a LOT of crap, but at least our client keeps up with the game and you're still playing roughly the same game.
Love these kinda videos you are so easy to listen to and comprehend even as a foreign speaker its actually crazy
1. The shareholders aren't thinking about Maxx "C" because the OCG has Maxx "C", and they're just so disconnected from the West to even care beyond that.
2. This video is in English so they will never see nor care. Sadge
…then again I don't want them to add set rotation, so maybe that's fine.
Tbh I feel like most people know by now that set rotation is bad lol
It's one of those poorly aged ideas MTG broud to the table where some people gaslight themselves into thinking that it's actually a good thing
I think the point where "I get hit with something I had no clue existed" is what I thought was fun about Yugioh. Really opened my mind up to the ways of play and it sent me down the rabbit hole I'm in now. My first IRL deck was a Ghostrick deck, because I encountered them in MD and after that I went onto getting more accustomed to other deck types.
Yeah, that is a big part of the fun. But "I had no clue existed" before used to mean a trap that boosts a monster's defense or a monster that special summons itself by banishing a fire monster from your graveyard. Not "no you don't get to play the game" effects. Yugioh cards used to be a "yes, and" style of effect, and now they almost exclusively take the form of "no you can't".
Yes you're partially right. But what's really the problem is "I get hit with a type of card that I didn't even knew existed". Getting Hit with a Handtrap when you don't know they even exist or that they have bigher effects than just Kuriboh can feel pretty unfair. Same with lockdown cards you didn't know of when they basically just end the game because you didn't know you had to plan around them. If you don't know something even could possibly exist because you have never encountered something similar can feel like the other person is cheating with cards they made up. For example the first time I encountered a Jinzo, I felt pretty cheated because I simply didn't think such a card could even possibly exist. All negates I knew were the type where you had to pay more than what you got negated, or at best go neutral and pay life points. Compared to that Jinzo felt absurdly overpowered
Perk of Master Duel:
- online sims with all the different indicators to tell you what the card does
- got visuals
- got weird wacky events once every month
- easy to build decks and test it out
- easy to even recycle said decks into something else as well
- and cheap tbh, if you get like every staples already, 1 month you get average of like 6~8k gems, which are enough to pull for new decks in the month after
Cons of Master Duel:
- Secret Packs, if you miss a selection packs, consider it's gone and you either wait for even longer time or start spending your gems, swipe your credit card for those long gone cards. Recently they do release new Secret Packs and stuff but ... it just ain't enough
- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY behind TCG and OCG in term of cards released.
- doesn't even have OCG or TCG format despite their original intention for MD was ... for that.
Perk of actual paper YGO (idk, tbh I don't even play irl paper, but on top of my head I can list stuff like):
- socializing
- irl prizes
- touch grass?
Cons of paper YGO:
- prices (unless you are an OCG players, good luck)
- complexity, like... just looks at all those paragraphs in every cards, and now trying to remember everything including the hidden mechanic irl without any online simulator to help you... yeah
--
Conclusion: god if only MD catch up with irl release, maybe like idk 3 months or like 1 packs behind TCG/OCG or something, and have the TCG/OCG format in game.
current state is that MD is just way too late for it to be any good for people who already used to paper. And MD is more appealing for newbies or even returnee than paper for them to convert to paper. So now we stuck at 2 completely different bubbles that can't translate to one another.
As someone coming back to paper after 10 years, started Master Duel a few months ago and felt like going paper.
It's not as much the format change being an issue for me but cost to entry, if it wasn't for something like the Traptrix structure deck which gave me a decent deck to play at locals, I would have folded over the cost to entry barrier.
I'm very hopeful things change as we're seeing with upcoming product releases.
As one of the players that got into the game bacause of masterduel, ill be honest it was cost and access to singles (tcgplaher doesnt ship to australia) that made me hold off for a long time.
I ended up buying three traptirx structures and a few mega tins to get started and have now finally finished building branded and a marincess deck. But it also takes weeks to do so purchasing singles on facebook groups etc.
Edit, it also took me a month to find a local i could go to that suited my timetable, until i was in the community finding card shops that had games on weekends was super difficult, i currently drive 45mins to get there every weekend.
I was hoping to get into physical YGO after playing Master Duel but the biggest turn-off was the actual time spent playing each turn. Sure games last less turns compared to older formats, but it’s really freaking boring watching someone take 5 full real-life minutes to set up a board. As a newer player I’m then caught between zoning out and reading the 20 cards I’ve never seen before that my opponent just zoomed through to make a board that amounts to “and now you can’t play Yugioh.”
They do that in Master Duel in the same amount of time. Lol I really don't see the difference other than them doing it live, in my face
When I was a kid playing yugioh, a match never took more than 5 minutes. I had matches where I won by my opponent decking out that lasted less than 10 minutes. Now just agreeing to play a game involves a mandatory 15 minute combo that ends in nobody playing the game.
I agree with what other people say. The biggest thing that keeps me from getting into paper is the cost. Seeing cards that you need to run 3 of to make certain decks playable going for 100+ dollars is a big turn off. Besides that, master duel is also just more convenient. Going to play paper involves traveling to locals or events, and if you live in an area where your closest locals is an hour away, that makes it pretty difficult. I actually also enjoy the difference in format between master duel and TCG. It keeps things interesting and fresh in my opinion. It’s nice to be able to switch between master duel and either TCG or a simulator like Omega and play something that feels a bit different. I’m not an overly competitive player, so I don’t mind that they have different formats. Keeps it kind of fresh in my opinion.
As Joseph said: The problem is that much like a complex fighting game, Yugioh has an incredibly high skill floor compared to other TCGs that has to be met in order to just play and enjoy the game.
I got into Yugioh in 2021 and it took me literally a whole year just to fully grasp a lot of the nuances of this game. And even then, there's stuff i could afford to spend more time working on. For example: outside of my PUNK deck, shit like chain blocking still isn't something I currently prioritize in a lot of my deck builds since I prefer flexibility over consistency. I more so tend to focus on studying choke points in decks since being able to make correct plays when dismantling an opponent's board is more important.
The point i'm trying to make is that once the skill floor of a game has gotten high enough, it obviously becomes hard to get new people into that game. Like, Yugioh is the Smash Bros Melee of trading card games. Its lightning fast, and if you don't know what you're doing when building/piloting a deck, you can get overwhelmed very quickly by your opponent. Hell, you can still get overwhelmed period if your match-up is just that bad.
My primary solution to this problem is to do what Pokemon has been doing for a while now with its TCG World Championship Decks: release select YCS deck builds as standalone, high-end, pre-constructed products. It would be preferable if the deck came with some sorta "strategy guide" with tips on how to operate the deck correctly, as well as providing card suggestions for constructing a side deck.
MTG does something similar with its commander deck products. They don't come with a guide or some shit given that Magic is a stupidly simple game, but the deck lists are still pretty competent for pre-constructed builds and provide plenty of room for making modifications. The recent Sauron commander deck pretty much convinced me to start playing again (it reminded me of Ashiok in terms of play style, which is a favorite of mine), so they're clearly doing a good job.
I'm telling you: if Konami did this, new players willing to learn this game would pick up on everything fast. Like, seriously: make a Rikka Sunavalon YCS deck product or some shit. Hell, we just put Engage to 2 and Multirole to 3. Make a Sky Striker deck product, weebs would eat that shit up and it'd be much less embarrassing to pilot than Traptrix.
Another good solution would be to require duelists to release their deck lists in general after an event. Its incredibly annoying as a viewer watching a YCS to see some guy piloting a really strong deck and then not be able to see his deck list. Show that shit in between rounds.
Finally, I'd highly recommend YGOPaisano's recent video on the topic of YCS coverage. He mentions a lot of stuff about Master Duel that Joseph ended up repeating here, but his takes on the awful livestreams is some pretty good criticism.
but traptrix is fun. :(
@@joeywin42 You do you i guess, lol
I still can't complain about anything except for Maxx C in this game. After experiencing Pokemon TCG Live, y'all have no idea how good we have it...
tcg live is way worse than the old client of pokemon tcg online… :(
Not a big fan of that new client though. It's extremely ass. Pokemon TCG is fun though and I think fans deserve better than whatever garbage client we currently have.
Maxx “C” is the absolute biggest problem with the game, though I don’t think it’s the only one.
So many cards in this game are legal that SHOULD NOT BE just because of the japanese designers’ philosophy of “if we take cards away from players, they’ll feel upset because we limited their choices in deck building”.
TCG live is better than master duel. It runs a current card pool and the battle pass makes it easy to get all the cards in a set if you play everyday.
Master duel would never dream of giving players free deck cores to the meta decks when at the start of the new seasons.
Yes, there’s bugs. But at least they have a player friendly mindset and aren’t a cynical cash grab with no relevance to the card game 1.5 years in the future.
@@isidoreaerys8745 bro its a whole ahh hive not just one bug. Its so frustrating to play half the time.
I started playing/consuming yugioh last year when master duel came out. I had friends who played tcg and helped me learn the ins and outs of yugioh. I tried paper play by buying 3 Albaz structure decks but I was constantly frustrated that I didn't know what cards in the current tcg meta were since I had only played Master duel. I built super heavies (far before CYAC) to just have fun with but stopped going to locals since I got busy. When CYAC came out I was hyped but then learned Konami turned my cool synchro big defense boys into a generic engine for barronne turbo. This is mega saddening after they banned scarecrow since it was a cool card within pure super heavies. Honestly paper play is just too expensive, time consuming, and social for the way I want to play yugioh.
Sorry for the essay I just wanted to rant about how they massacred superheavies
SHS's metamorphosis was a sad one to look at indeed
Your essay is well appreciated. I felt the exact same way more than a decade ago and I did so periodically, it's just how Konami does business. I realised despite me liking what the game *could've* become, ultimately I couldn't handle the reality that the game is maintained with the purpose of keeping the players constantly in chase card limbo. So I quit paper for good.
Yea l play superheavy as well and hate how they become just an engine to dump out generic negates
@@Yous0147 Whenever I get into Yugioh again I'm always at some crossroads of playing the older games or trying to update my paper decks. I just can't tolerate the card chase that renews every three months, even less with new card announcements. Luckily, I have great friends that think the same, even in different tiers of casual/competitive.
Yugioh is something seriously fantastic, I just wish Konami knew how to handle it better.
I think it's really the lack of different formats that is hurting Yu-Gi-Oh in the long run. There's plenty of interest for retro formats like Goat or Edison but very few product releases to support tho and they're still relegated to side events, even tho these formats are a lot more accessible than current TCG.
I still play the old World Championship games on DS emulator just to play "easy-to-follow YGO" again. Good times.
i mean it’s not even the formats it’s just straight the price of some of these cards. like spending 700 for like a kash deck for example. konami needs to stop short printing cards n decks
Earlier this year I decided to learn how to play YGO to surprise my partner since he loves it. I decided to learn through Master Duel as I wouldn’t need people irl to practice against and it’s super convenient to play on your phone (esp learning in secret). It took me two months of watching videos, reading posts, and practice to learn how to play ONE deck. I used to play the Pokémon TCG and it maybe, MAYBE takes 30 min to learn and play. It was INCREDIBLY frustrating as a new player to read about decent beginner friendly/budget friendly decks to realize they aren’t available in MD due to some cards just not existing. I had no idea that was a thing until I got more into it.
Honestly, I came to really enjoy the game and would like to play irl sometime but the issues you point out are the exact reasons why I hesitate. And, as a new player knowing how intense this game is I cannot see myself having the confidence to play the game without the MD prompts! How upset would a more seasoned player be if I needed to constantly pause, read cards, or attempt to activate something I actually can’t? The game is so complex. On top of that, it’s expensive!
THE Master Duel problem? There's only one?
Of course there's only one. Master Duel, duh.
"The Master Duel Problem"
An epic novel by MBT
There can be only one.
@@solobugg5087 Rivalry of problems
@@aelspectoGozens of them
Completely agree. I'm an avid MD player and I'm having a blast with it, but it is so hard to convert to TCG when the format is so different, it requires huge investments in both time and money in getting a new deck, and I suddenly have to move from playing an hour each day to investing half of a day to go to locals.
The travelling is more insane than people think. Driving 2 hour to lose x-3? Yeah pass
I would never advise anyone to play both MD and TCG. Pick a lane and stick to it. They both cost money and you have to get over that.
I only play TCG at various local tournaments. There are some difficulties: Prices too high, an application that (at least in Italy where I live) has problems and a shift lasts 5 minutes due to the lag, without considering the difficulty of new players in learning to play :" First online game (I swear) I played the basic deck the opponent had a Swordsoul deck with everything he could put in it to be as competitive as possible.Having said this, I see the same defects for the paper deck.I participate in the local events in my country but I always finish practically last because 1 I don't really have money to spend 2 I'm not able to play 3 the decks I like are not half relevant at all ( I currently play Icejade (poorly written and effected (in terms of effects and cards even worse)) Melffy (pure , I like the idea) and occasionally an old Graydle Kaiju
Hi sorry for the English translator :D , where I live there are stores that do card games workshops, from magic to pokemon to try to teach new players how to play and understand values and such. All were a success ... except for yugioh , old players getting mad for having to explain cards and very high deck prices (yes I know that the other two also have high competitive values, more or less you have an illusion of winning with buget decks that make you try more games, different from yugioh) the workshop was closed because it was a disaster, very high difficulty, high value of decks and few funcinal buget options made people give up on the game.
I don’t think Maxx C is the elephant in the room.
The elephant in the room is that the only people interested in playing yugioh saw the anime first or remember it from their childhood:
And when they play the actual game they realise it is completely different and incomprehensible to beginners. Especially since in master duel the starter decks and intro pretend it isn’t that different.
And then you jump on ladder and get frog stomped by anyone with an actual competent deck.
Ya there are so many nuances new players are not going to understand like how traps cards are bad unless your deck is built around them or you can search them out, the concept of one and two ofs and lastly how important hand traps are.
It's not a matter of learning the game, it's a matter of the game not being fun. That's why the players who came to the game through Master Duel didn't stick around. Because you're right. They came because of nostalgia. They remembered Yugioh used to be a fun game. And Master Duel showed them that there is no more fun to be had. It's not the same game, it's not even remotely close.
Yeap I absolutely agree with this comment, I also jumped into playing the game from Duel Links where I started and then moved to Master Duel because of nostalgia and having fun it took me 2 years to learn and play the game decently from DL to MD
@@dontmisunderstand6041 dogshit opinion, try again
you can't cather mainly to generation Y/Z forever... Game will die without growing playerbase
I was honestly surprised that other people also found tear in master duel annoying to play with and against due to it inconsistency but it makes sense that while it is the best deck it is really annoying that a large majority of hands do nothing or just get interrupted causing you to lose the game before it’s really started for either player.
people just hate whatever is the top deck because they have low tier mentality. it's the same with fighting games. doesn't matter if a game has an incredibly fun and dynamic top tier spread, there are always gonna be people who intentionally play low tiers because they have insecurities about their skill level and just want to win games from MU inexperience while being able to write off losses as just being the result of "tryhard" "tier whore" opponents. (obviously not all rogue/untiered players are like that, and almost all of us have an untiered pet deck, but you definitely know what I'm talking about. ishizu tear was at least half as fun to play as MBT made it out to be, and the people who didn't build and play it when it was at full power in MD missed out on having a lot of fun because their fragile egos needed to be protected.)
@@drewbabeor maybe they want to play the game without like half their deck in grave and their foe fusion summoning like it's their turn
@@First-to-last i agree, but I don't think that solves the issue of "tear is busted" more than it creates non games for both sides.
@Firstlast-uj9kk playing on your opponent’s turn to some degree is normal for loads of decks. Orcust routinely went through their entire combo again on your turn using Babel back during TOSS format. Playing during your opponent’s turn is what drives player interactivity. If that sort of thing bothers you that much then you’re limiting yourself to pre-Duelist Alliance, which is the oldest half of the game. Tearlament is only annoying because it has hard to manage chain links and remembering which names have been used in paper is painful. As for the graveyard thing, the overwhelming majority of decks like having their cards in grave. Orcust, Zombie, Lightsworn, Skystriker, Runick, Labrynth, Tri-Brigade, Salamangreat, etc. all love having cards hit the grave and pretty much every deck out there has some sort of grave effect that they’d like to activate. Hell, you mill a Spright player and hit Ronintoadin or Angler and they’ll walk over to you and shake your hand for literally gifting them full combo once you pass turn, and that deck doesn’t even really love using the graveyard (hence the reason why it can play Shifter decently). Graveyard milling with shufflers and Bystials was the oppressive part. Both shufflers are now at 1 and both of the best Bystials are also at 1. So even if Tear manages to rip 1 of the 3 legal millers, the amount of oppressive ways they have of preventing you from getting advantage off them letting you mill 5 for free. If milling cards was a detrimental thing, a card like Grass wouldn’t be banned in the TCG for representing a +5 even when your mills suck and a card like Painful Choice would have a meaningful downside because you’re losing 4 potentially useful cards. Obviously that’s not the case because the graveyard is a resource for the overwhelming majority of decks nowadays so Ishizu Tear is often helping you by milling your deck if they don’t have a shuffler or Bystial to ruin your day.
@@dariuspenner2528 I was talking about how tear can basically play like it's their own turn without you even being able to do shit even if you did draw called by.
So many good points I can't add any more. Very well said MBT!
The problem isnt just Master Duel, the physical game is also having issues because of the current game state. People scoop because the match is won at the moment of coin toss, you go first and there is a high chance you will win if you can set up a board that cant be out
I love it when I watch my opponent set up a huge board of interruptions and negations, and then they also drop maxx c in draw phase.
I’m shocked that you aren’t allowed to concede in the OCG. Doesn’t that cause even more issues when considering the round timer?
Konami can say you're not allowed to concede all you want. You're allowed to concede, and a rule that prevents you from doing so could ONLY exist in a collectivist dystopia like Japan. It's literally just saying "You've already beaten me so there's no point in continuing".
Id say its less about different rules and banlist, and rather the fact that you are moving from format you got everything free/cheap in MD to OCG/TCG where you have to spend hundreds to thousands for the same deck.
Its like asking MD to join back to DL
Therein lies the issue. Konami wanted to use this like Duel Links as a vehicle to drive people to paper when, in my opinion, it should be ultimately replaced with Master Duel.
He didn't mention cost, which is probably the biggest reason. The value of an SR/UR in Master Duel is better than paper. If something gets banned in Master Duel, you can get back the same number of craft points you put in. In paper, a card depreciates in value as soon as it's banned or reprinted, often never getting back all that you invested.
Its also more convenient to load up Master Duel where the automation reduces complexity than to drive to a place and play with strangers using a deck that I know doesnt cost what I paid and people cheating, stealing, and sharking all to win some packs. Im not interested in ladder grinding, only looking for a way to relax, but some people take this game way too seriously.
I do think there should be more secret packs, gem sales, and events running at all times, but if you still think the only problems with the game can be solved with a ban list, then I think you missed the point. The game has been desperately trying to run away from its MTG mimicry, and in doing so successfully, the speed, powercreep, and price tag has long since cracked for those who gave up for a good majority of players who just want to have a good time and paper is just not as economically viable anymore.
He was so big on the push for "TEAR IS GREAT" bandwagon....., 150 bucks and the only really playable deck at the time. And I'm gonna have to pay out another 150 or so for the next deck. And the next one, and the next one. Fuck this, I'll sub to an MMO at that point.
@@MerlinCross13Whale activities, unless you’re talking about paper then yeah it’s stupid how much paper can cost although it’s def higher than 150 (Branded being 330 in TCG while it’s only like 20 bucks in ocg).
@@Dragonhawk-250 To be fair, I just looked up a random meta deck(Tear) and saw it was like 150-180 bucks though I didn't do an in-depth search or check the listing for say a date
@@MerlinCross13 That’s fair thought you were talking about MD cause spending like 150 on MD is crazy to me although, I never understood MBT’s love for Tear format maybe it just wasn’t for me.
I went to Japan for vacation and when I went to play Yugioh, all the locals play best of 1 games with a best of three top cut if they play it. Though this was entirely in Tokyo so regional differences and quantity of players may influence tournament structure.
I hope that this comment gains traction and leads to exposure to my idea that I want to present. I believe that Konami should adopt how the Pokemon TCG runs their trading card simulator. Mostly what I want to focus on that they do differently is that sealed Pokemon products have redeemable codes that you can use to unlock the same item from their online card shop (i.e. decks, booster packs, sp box sets, ect.). This only encourages players to buy physical product, but also puts your money towards both mediums so their card pool will expand on both fronts. With Master Duel and the TCG being completely separate it makes it harder to convince players to by into both, and as such they will most likely stick purely to one or the other. There is certainly more that Konami can throw around, look at, and test that other simulators doing that they are not, but I think this is one of the bigger things that will really improve new player interests and keep them engaged with buying product.
Exactly.
Also global release card pool.
It’s not difficult. Every other card game can pull this off
Yeah I’m never switching to paper simply because, I’m not paying for cards to build a deck it’s just not an experience I personally look forward to when I can just boot up master duel with the homies in the duel room and play fun decks and build off each other. Master duel is behind and the whole play these hand traps and interruptions before you can actually play your deck: is annoying.
Forgot to mention the monetary problem. In no world, I'm gonna spend hundreds of money's (depending on the coin used) to play a game that I can play for free in my phone.
I think the Matchmaking system of Master Duel is actually the biggest impact here. Players using otherwise pretty weak decks will end up settling in Silver or Gold against other similar decks and hover at a 50% win rate. Lets people play their pet decks and, for the most part, avoid the stomps they would expect at locals if they brought the same thing.
I can agree, but I’d add something to that. Because MD is bo1, there’s no chance to side like what was mentioned. That’s important to mention because in MD, you’re playing to win at all costs, so you’re packing it with insurance cards that help your effects go through, and not enough room for what you actually want to play.
There’s casual mode, sure, but who even knows that’s a thing? It’s a tiny unassuming button down next to duel room where you go to absolutely stomp your favorite streamer for the lols and bragging rights. Plus, casual seems to be the place where meta degenerates go to test their brand new decks without hurting their precious Master 1 rank that they probably net-decked to get to.
MD needs an overhaul to its casual mode, where people who don’t care about climbing ranked can go to, like you mentioned, play pet decks and have some true fun. Sometimes they’ll be quick games where one guy gets stomped, but there will be others where the game is longer and far more interactive. I’d propose a change where all meta cards with 60% win rates or higher be either heavily restricted or banned to let people who want to play their pet decks can thrive in this hypothetical overhauled casual mode.
Another thing is to just promote casual play in general. Most people who get into this game feel like they must have the best and shiniest cards to compete in the game, when they can buy the cheap cards and still have a good time in the kitchen vs a family member or friend.
Problem is, even if it’s just product, locals have prizes. That alone makes them way more serious than just ladder climbing on MD.
People at locals are still there to win, they spent money on their cards, likely drove to the comic shop and legit made time in their week to arrange that, while you could boot up MD and climb the ladder while listening to a podcast or jerking off, lose every game and not give a shit.
The way you play pet decks in paper is you just have a group of friends who already play, or get your friends into the game, and you all agree you’re not gonna play certain meta threats.
There should be casual events at locals where people are encouraged to do exactly this. Encourage people to run their pet decks and silly gimmicks. Unless you have a group of friends who play, it's legitimately hard to play anything in real life that isn't competitive.
@@samuelheddle There is no comic shop that will organize “casual” tournaments since…Well, there is no clear distinction for what is casual and what isn’t. Even if it was a “bring your own pet deck tournament” I could just say Swordsoul is my pet deck. You’d have to specifically say that some cards are not allowed, but rebalancing an entire format for a tournament is not worth the effort.
There are however formats that already have an established playerbase and that some places organize tournaments for, especially if the players around them show interest towards these formats.
There’re meta decks for the Edison format like Zombie Diva and Flamvell that you can play for a bit less than $100, and I’m pretty sure you can buy a Chaos or Thunder Dragon deck for GOAT format for basically pocket change.
Now, these prices vary A LOT depending on region. However, getting a meta deck for an older format will always be infinitely cheaper than getting a meta threat that came out 6 months ago.
I'm a Korean OCG player. Obviously, we follow Japan's OCG banlist, but just like the TCG, we get our cards really late. We still don't have stuff like link decoder or assault synchron or any news for release dates. Basically, an OCG format with cards releasing slower than the TCG. But our prices are extremely low compared to Europe or US or even Japan. We honestly think even Japan has way more expensive pricing than us. I've played this game for over a decade and back when I heard about the prices of TCG decks being the price of literal gaming PCs, I thought you guys were insane. Throughout the years I've introduced a few people to that game and funny enough, they all started with a Blue-eyes deck that I just had lying around cuz I wasn't using it anymore. Here, a regular tier 1 deck would cost around 50~70USD. Maybe 100 if you barely have any staples. Most of my friends were comfortable paying that price to buy a playable deck. I thought getting them to know the rules going to be hard since the last time they played, xyz were just getting introduced or stardust dragon was the best extra deck card. Surprisingly, they learned the game at a respectable rate and I was shocked. They thought it was cool when I was spamming monsters all the time with my dragon link deck and wanted to try it for themselves. One of them bought a salamangreat deck with all the staples for cheap and enjoyed spamming the field. Unexperienced or not, they got to pick up the deck they wanted and had the chance to learn it. So I guess the point was, make the game more affordable so that lower priced decks can make people fun. I barely thought this was a 'pay to win' game and that seems to be what its been happening to the TCG.
and yes, I love and hate maxx c
Thankyou for your perspective. I’ve never heard about the Korean OCG before and I agree TCG players are insane spending house payment money on a deck that will be banned in few months.
Master Duel was the greatest thing that ever happened to me after Duel Links, I live in Egypt where a one TCG pack is 50 pounds like man it’s already hard to pay for my everyday life, Master Duel is an absolute bliss I didn’t pay a single penny and ended up having 9 decks so far Master Duel is a great hit for many of us but yes new players are having hard times to gain interest in the game and continue playing it hopefully they need to make big changes
Duel Links was great until Konami warped the format around pendulum era.
I used to casually play card YGO before. Was bad at deck building and people at my local helped me understand the game. Sadly, lack of money and personal life got in the way and I quit (a little before ghostrick came out).
Nowadays, I watch some YGO from time to time. Mostly the history of jank and some coder videos. I even created an account in duelingbook to look up old cards. Alas, I don't see myself starting to play again because of a few factors:
1- Time required to know the cards. There's so many now and even if I removed the banned ones, there's still so much. Like you said in the video, how could I know about ash blossom, circular, Nibiru and the likes unless I do hours of research before my first game? Which leads to the second factor;
2- Powercreep is too massive. As much as I'd like to restrain myself to a few archetype and decks, they're so much behind time that they just can't function against anything modern. I want to play Ghostrick, Bujin, Suship and the likes. Even if I try to be creative, I wouldn't even last to turn 3 against anything semi competent and modern now. I either play meta or just don't play. And to make it less fun, turns last so much longer now, I can go make coffee and drink it before my opponent is done with his opening turn ending with a massive board and omniclear. Which also ties in with my last reason;
3- Rules and card text are so unclear. How the heck do you guys even remember half that shit? Miss timing, if / or / and behaving differently depending on when it triggers, convoluted effects with soft / hard once per turn, doesn't activate since some other effect shenanigan in the damage calculation and whatnot. Even if I decide to put the time to learn card and bitterly adopt a modern decklist, the rules just trips you up. Heck, I never bothered to learn links nor pendulum because I just got discouraged.
Anyways, imo YGO should go for the following in order to get my attention:
1. Limit card pool. Like you hinted at the end, yes having less cards to put my energy into and them all being at or around the same power level would make it easier to grasp.
2. Slow the game down. I don't want to win in 2 turns or get OTK next turn. Nor do I want to have to deal with massive boss monsters in opening turn and if I can't I just lose. Keep boss monsters strong, something you work towards over the game, but still have weakness. Win condition should allow some counter play from a smart opponent. Not be rock paper scissors and if you lose once you lose the game.
3. Make the card text more clear and streamlined. The card shouldn't have so much text you need a magnifying glass in order to read it. Not should you read the card and be like "I have no idea how to use that shit". Nor should should there be so much ambiguity about when, how, why you use an effect and you just missed timing / can't activate cause that one word used in that one way means you can't!
Wall of text, I know. But had to get my 2cent out. I like YGO and have fond memories of it. I just can't bring myself to play it now because it's more work than a master degree to jump in.
i really feel like the tcg really needs to bring out more and more structure decks for new players and also bring it out for all of the summoning mechanics every year to give variety to new players. like when i got back into yugioh and learned how much these decks cost was outragous
GOOD structure decks like Dinosaurs or Salamangreat. Traptrix is not a good one and I'll die on that hill. It doesn't teach the player any meaningful mechanics and also it extremly boring where both Dino and Salad have a ceiling to reach. That's way more exciting that a deck that summons an XYZ and loops Traphole
I actually started playing for the first time since playground with Master Duel and even bought cards! But YGO was always going to be a secondary thing to fighting games for me (another expensive competitive hobby), and I have no income. After buying an inexpensive bad pet deck, I had to reckon with the reality that I can't buy staples let alone keep up with new product without sacrificing basically any chance I have of going to an FGC major.
I'm going to be honest, the BIGGEST factor on why I am willing to play on both Master Duel and Dueling Book but not the TCG is the financial cost, with the next biggest contributor being that I never play META. The number of decks that I have build and enjoyed on Master Duel and Dueling book are not few, but if you were to ask me to try and purchase the cards to make these decks for the TCG to play in locals? Ya, not happening. Even if I adapted them for the TCG, if I do not want to get bored I would need to make at least a couple decks, but the cost of doing that just to play in a format where I might get to play once a week (and who knows how well I would do) is not worth it.
With Master Duel, and Dueling Book, I can, for free, create fun non-competitive decks that I can play whenever I want, and due to how often I can play with them I can squeeze out wins. What does the TCG really offer me?
My nearest locals is about an hour away and gets together once a week, so I just don't have much impetus to jump to paper play. Ever since Master Duel came out, I've been hopping on almost every day and playing at least one duel a day, whereas paper play requires so much more effort (and gas money) than just turning on my Switch or sitting at my PC.
Plus I'm also not the brightest person, so the glowing indicators on when cards activate and general automation of when I can chain effects or when I'm locked into things helps me to learn my cards a lot faster. I OWN the Traptrix structure deck IRL for collection's sake and read all the cards, but it didn't hit me how powerful the new support from that structure deck is until I started deck building in MD, and I was actively playing Traptrix in MD about a year ago. And also the fact that I can just have the card text made bigger and easier to read is... such a godsend.
All of this, the convenience of an at-home, always-accessible, user-friendly simulator, on top of the price tag that some cards IRL garner compared to Master Duel's gacha and crafting system, is what is keeping me from paper play. I would rather just play Yugioh from the comfort of my couch at home, even if I dislike certain aspects of MD's format. and wish they would communicate with their playerbase more frequently.
Everything presented in this video is on point. Some of my greatest frustrations with MD are that decks I'm interested in aren't in the game (Kash, Manadium, R-ACE) or the support hasn't made it in yet. (Galaxy-Eyes(yes even the PHHY stuff isn't in) I feel like the best fix is to add Time Wizard formats like Edison so new and old players can work their way up into the games complexity or that they can find the point in YGO that's just right for them. A solution I would add would be to go into the future of TCG by adding sets in MD before they appear in paper. This with the TCG banlist and BO3 would make the environment of advanced as close as possible to actual tournaments and since sets would be out first in MD Konami could get data for banlists and players can mess around with decks they're interested in before they buy them irl. I would love if we could have something like this so players could have more power in their deck investments, but Konami might hate it since it would shake up their lazy marketing strategy and it might get people to realize some cards might not be worth the hype.
I think you're confused like Joseph is with the problem. Getting people to play MD ain't the problem it's getting those MD players to convert to paper play since a large chunk of the revenues come from TCG and OCG not the other way around
As someone with no intentions of ever going back to paper, all of my favorite decks keep getting ocg support and i have to wait around a year for it to show up in MD, it happened with symphonic warriors, and now i'm sitting here wating for the next infernoble wave
You could always try playing on the unofficial simulators like EDOpro, YGO-Omega or Dueling Book
(i know, not the best solution)
Oh trust me, I think we hit the Breaking Point ages ago. Between cards becoming stupidly complicated, the cost of cards in the current economy, and general format fatigue in MD, I wouldn’t be surprised if we were just flat out losing players. Hell, my locals, the regulars have basically all agreed to not play Meta because we’d all probably quit Yugioh - it’s an outlier, but I can’t imagine we’re the only ones.
At this point, the only real solutions would be Format Unification (look, TCG and OCG, outside a bunch of 20 Year Old Vanilla’s and Company Sponsorship Cards, have like, 60 cards separating them), which still leaves Master Duel well and truly in the dust, or just nuking the game from orbit and starting from scratch, which would probably just gave Konami abandon the game.
I'd love to see a game like Master Duel but only with cards up to GX or 5Ds, or a mode that only allows a deck with those cards.
My favorite type of MBT video - him disliking the game.
Im surprised you never mentioned price. As a masterduel player, I see no reason to play the TCG if cards like Accesscode Talker which cost 30 UR dust will cost me $50 in the physical game.
I'm sure Joseph is a great guy. But remember his last name is Rothschild.
I've transitioned from master duel to the tcg a little over a year ago and it's been very fun. Started playing with master duel and after a year of that began thinking about getting a ln irl deck and after a friend of mine shared interest in that we got on cardmarket and bought a deck each and started going to locals.
While it's not the easiest thing to learn how to play in person I think it's very fun but I can see how people don't want to especially with all the new decks they're going to encounter.
Also the biggest thing at least in Germany would be accessibility to locals. The nearest card shop for me to play is an hour drive away and that's a bit far to go every week but I'm lucky enough to have talked some friends into getting into the tcg as well and we meet up often to play.
I think the main issue of yugioh is power creep it got so fucking out of hand a long time ago. You can't really adapt to all the op cards, so now you only do your own strategy every duel while using the same generic disruption cards regardless of what the opponent does. Who ever gets his op strategy first done wins cause the other side can't do anything anymore, so it's not really strategy based anymore just luck based, who draws the better cards first wins.
People say it's faster paced now, but is it really? Time was never a big problem in old Yu-Gi-Oh. I would much rather have old yugioh where duels did go on for 10-20 turns with every turn being ~30s, than new yugioh with 1-2 10min turns. Cause every turn gives you a chance to adapt!
I’m solely a master duel player but I watch a lot of content on the tcg, like this channel for instance. It’s definitely frustrating hearing about all these new decks and cards and knowing they’ll be months and months away, and not only that,if they’re halfway decent they’ll be limited on release because of the ocg/tcg. I have started buying cards for collecting but never played a single irl game even tho I’ve been playing MD since release.
I should add to this I’m so bored with the format myself that I only do dailies and events, and the events have such potential like sealed events but we just get synchro/fusion events over and over. It’s just wasted potential everywhere you look
i just hate the feeling of getting a good selection pack every 2 months while beeing a year behind in cards and the endless feeling of i don‘t have anything to do so why even play
Master Duel being vastly different to TCG/OCG is honestly the bottleneck that keeps me from playing physical YGO.
Its just a wildly different environment with Master Duel being behind for like a good ONE YEAR++ of cards really sucks when trying to transisition, I can't get a feel of the common cards as well as I could've if the Master Duel format had been the same.
I only came back to YGO after MD when my previous experience was playground YGO, so even playing MD is already a huge catch up, and I'm not doing that for 2 different formats :(
Yea that point from 7:50 on is true. Like I’ve went from duel links to masterduel when it released and there were so many more cards that I had to learn with so much text that I just didn’t. I used to joke about my opponents not reading cards. Now I understand why.
I used to play Paper and Paper only a few years ago. The main issue with playing in paper for younger me was simply money. You cannot build a fully functional deck that operates at 100% capacity without spending a LOT of money. Money that for example teenagers and probably also a big portion of the adult players either do not have or are simply not interested to invest in the game when the risk of their deck becoming unplayable or hit on the list are always there. You would also need to start selling and buying stuff to not waste a lot of money. You are also basically not allowed to take a break from the game as some cards do get reprints and therefore finally become cheap, making your older cards less valuable, but they will also introduce new staples that then become super expensive instead. When I was still playing in Paper Ash Blossom used to be pretty expensive for example, now its like 10 for a playset?
And if someone wants an example for super expensive staple for competitive play: Triple Tactics Thrust. 150 for a playset of an arguably staple card.