Tinkering with this stuff and doing an Excel simulation 20 years ago I came to the same conclusion about pump energy per flow quantity. A few points: 1. The salt cell has a flow sensor switch which sometimes are calibrated poorly to require a high minimum flow rate. Bend it to adjust it to allow a lower flow which is not really an issue as long as the flow is positive. 2. Check valves are really restrictive with the spring, so you can remove the spring to minimize restriction. 3. Use long bends as much as possible instead of restricting elbows. 4. Starite DE 110 filters have the lowest advertised flow restriction, much better than sand filters. 5. The two wheel constant volume pump motor are good at low flow rates but pricey. I use one with an inline easy to clean filter which is great to catch dog hair from my crazy water loving golden retriever. But I curious to try your robots. 6. Solar heating requires a minimum flow to overcome the height and not cavitate. 7. A pool cover is a great investment like the another commenter noted, it vastly reduces heat loss and water loss from evaporation. Besides the vinyl motorized cover I have a second manual bubble insulated cover for the the colder season. Insulation under the pool and dry soil also help if possible. 8. I have an Arduino that controls the pump based on PV solar power to optimize solar heating. It saves a ton of energy compared to that dumb brain Pentair Easytouch controller I have just like Two bit. I really need to publish the design and program.
@2BD, very intriguing engineering redesign Solutions you present here. I'll be looking into many of these myself. Btw, have you thought of using UV water decontamination instead of salt or chlorine? My understanding is that it's very efficient energy wise and as effective.
I was wondering about copper ionizers which are solar powered with little floating panels. They have a solid copper sleeve that gets used up over a few months instead of chlorine.
Our in-ground pool in Seattle is heated by a solar water heating system that has was first installed in 1987. Last week I replaced the last 3 remaining original panels which were still working just fine, but I wanted fewer larger collectors rather than more smaller ones. 3 others were storm damaged over the years (tree limbs), and the remaining 2 did start leaking. BUT, the overall system has lasted over 30 years and I can easily keep the pool at 83-85F and the hot tub (shared system) to 105F just using solar. The system uses the same variable speed pump as the pool so no secondary pump required. (Our backup gas heater died 12 years ago and we've heated solely by solar ever since which has worked out pretty well. If we get an early heat wave, we can't quickly heat up the pool, but that's about it. In Seattle it's NOT an all year outdoor pool!) Solar Pool heating is probably THE most efficient way to heat a pool. Unglazed collectors are cheap, lightweight, durable, and effective. The other thing that makes an ENORMOUS difference in our climate is a pool cover. Here the delta T between Daytime and nighttime can be 25-30F so leaving a pool uncovered over night results in a 10F drop in pool temp. With the pool cover, 1-2F drop so the heat demand to maintain a temperature is MUCH lower. I look forward to the next segment in this series!
Another benefit to Salt Chlorinator; chlorine pucks also contain "conditioner" (aka CYA) that gets added when you use pucks. CYA does not evaporate out of your pool and when you collect too much, it prevents the chlorine already in your pool from sanitizing and algae blooms will happen. Salt chlorinators don't add CYA to your pool; the chlorinator converts salt into chlorine, chlorine gets used, converts back to salt, and the process starts again.
What crazy timing on your video. I just moved into a house and was shocked at my 790$ energy bill. Have 29 solar panels on the roof (they weren't working during time due to prev owner neglect) and have a 20+ year old pool pump. Going to use this information and got a pool guy coming out next week to talk new pumps & robots! Thanks for the great video!!!
funny right? My wife really wanted a pool, and for like a year I dreaded it, especially because I didn't realize how thirsty for electricity it was! But like all things, with some fine tuning I started to actually enjoy this process. Now we have a warm pool, and we can heat the hot tub ( with some planning and scheduling you'll see why in part 2) and have a zero bill. I've also got rid of all the chemicals and make it all so easy... I struggled... because I felt the need to stop all this work, to make our videos, but I've decided anything I nerd out over, I'm going to share here... even if the views aren't great lol... gotta LOVE what you do... and keep doing what you love... next I need to get disciplined about swimming every single day and get in great shape too lol...
I have a similar setup. 16,000 gallons, heat pump, variable speed pump, chlorinator. My research shows you should try to turn over the pool twice a day, so I run mine at 44 gallons per minute for 12 hours, which totals right about 32,000 gallons. I’ve been considering going to a slower speed for longer, and your video just got me thinking it through. I’m excited for the rest of the series!
yeah for sure! how about 30 GPM for 18 hours? :) although your savings are alreayd huge having a variable speed and running at 44 ... but yeah fun exercise to do... i'm working on a calculator that will help with all of this! what kind of heat pump heater did you get? how do you like it?
@@TwoBitDaVinci All of the equipment is Pentair; Pump, filter, and heat pump heater. The brand was purely a choice of the pool installer. So far, all equipment works well, and the heat pump heater will put out a surprising amount of heat at a moments notice. My biggest complaint about the equipment is the complete lack of connectivity features available unless you are willing to spend another $1000+. With soooo many things being connected to the internet now a days, I feel like the pool industry is just looking to make as much money as possible. The ability to see the water temp, set heater temp, and control the pump seems like a simple thing to add. Heck, even the display on the heater showing the temperature is this tiny little display that is barely visible on a bright day. Frustrating.
I will add that I really appreciate that the pump can be set by RPM or flow, and will show you the exact amperage draw while running. I use flow since it allows me to dial in the exact amount of gallons per minute the pump is pushing. RPM means next to nothing in a situation like that. Knowing the exact amperage allows me to see my energy savings in real time when I adjust the flow. Cool stuff!
Loving this series so far! Very much looking forward to heat pump episode as I have been wanting to upgrade my system. Great to hear that you'll be adding solar capacity to help with the heat pump energy consumption.
I have a little preliminary data for you... I can heat my spa which is obvioiusly much smaller, from 80-100 degrees in about 2 hours... my old gas heater did it in 30 minutes... so yes its 4x longer, but its free thanks to my solar! The key will be scheduling and planning :)
@@alwayzdancing like many things in life, the costs are high if you're impulsive, but with some preparation and planning, you can have everything you want and do it within your envelope :)
i have had my fiberglass pool in Central NY since 1999....i use a sand filter and chlorine tablets....I recently purchased an electric cleaner (Dolphin by Maytronics) and LOVE it....i only use the regular vacuum 2 times a year now, once in the spring and once in the fall....the salt water conversion is my biggest decision and have stayed with tablets since the price of the unit scared me having to replace it every 4-5 yrs.....I only run the pool 6 hours a day and use a solar cover to retain the heat even though I have a natural gas heater, which I have only use a few times since the summer has been very sunny and hot...I keep the pool at 84 minimum too!!!.....like someone stated in other comments though is the CYA, cyanuric acid, which is a stabilizer for the chlorine and it can wreak havoc on your pool after yrs of using tablets....the common remedy is draining half the pool and re-filling which is 7000 gallons PLUS with a fiberglass pool, it is very difficult because dropping the water too low can cause the walls to buckle...i appreciate all your info as it is good to see other sides of the equation and the experiences using different ideas...what works for some may not be feasible or economically sound for others but it is nice to get constructive ideas on how to enjoy a pool for yrs like I have done
thanks for sharing Brian! So how long is your "pool season" how long do you keep it hot? And what area do you live? Very interesting, San Diego is quite cool... although its currently pretty hot, so a pool cover might be a good idea, but our odd shape makes it tough... so much to it, which is why I'm really having fun nerding out. But I will say for everyone, get a variable speed pump!
Brian I think this may be the best comment to explain the challenges of engineering. Everything is a trade off. fiberglass buckling ... wow... is it in ground? I'm trying to think where the buckling problem could come from. I have a plaster inground. but as you point out, there are a series of challenges to all things in life, and the key is to find your own way. I will say the chlorinator issue isn't too bad, my pool guy told me about some aftermarket replacements that are way cheaper... but even then, with proper care I think its cheaper than Chrolorine, and way more automated. Something to think about. Plus salt water feels SO good on the skin... night and day compared to fresh water pools with high chlorine levels like at spas and hotels which leave you feeling bleached.
thank you, for a while the steps were baby steps, but at this point, when we can have a get together and entertain our family and friends, and have it not cost us even a single penny, yeah my wife is quite the fan. so much more to come though! can't wait to share it all with you!
How come there is no integration of house hold air con to pool heating .. and maybe vice versa in winter...?? 20k gallons of water seems like amassive heat store/sink
As it happens, I just acquired a pool myself! I have a similar Pentair system but it's an older one that uses an external module for WiFi and doesn't work with their latest app - but it does work! I have solar heating panels that are controlled but am fighting leaks. I also have a propane heater that's not currently working for the spa. Mine is salt but the previous owner stopped using it years ago, thankfully it came to life with the application of salt, but my pool guy still adds chlorine from time to time - grr! I have found you can cut evap WAY down by not using the watrerfall. In my case I run the main pump (Pentair fixed speed) most of the day and then switch to the spa towards evening for just an hour or two to clean that out. I'm loving the idea of a variable speed pump but not the cost so that's a problem I'll cross later. Right now my monthly bills have never crested $200 but the I've not been running my AC much - that will change. Sadly right now I cannot find a good way to measure power usage, I have two panels in my main garage and a third in my detached. I use a Sense at a different location and love it but it won't work for this - I'm stumped but want to monitor power. I'm looking forward to your heatpump video! I'm not a fan of the propane and I'm certain fueling it won't be cheap. I hope you can give some good stats on yours! I'm particularly interested in knowing how well it can heat a spa! Most of the units I've looked at claim they cannot :( I'm not sure my spa will get tons of use but it would be nice to have the option... This is going to be a VERY interesting video series!
the older suction cleaners also cause stress on the concrete/gunite, that leads to cracking. Resurfacing a pool is real costly. Vinyl liners are the alternative, and they rip, and can "float" in a heavy rain. seeing a pool floating on top of a soaked lawn is a real treat. It is cheaper mentally and monetarily to fill it all in at that point.
that's a great point... let me ask you... I'm constantly picking out what looks like sand from my pool robot cleaner... is that stuff falling in, or the pool breaking down? it's a very small amount... but I also have some old halogen bulbs that need replacing ... so next spring I think I'm going to empty the pool, try to use the water as best I can, and do a full assessment of the state of everything ... cheers!
lol... well ... I spend so much time engineering in my daily life, only to set it all aside to make a "normal" video... but if this channel is going to grow I have to merge my two worlds right?
You should check out natural swimming pools/ponds. They are specifically designed for swimming, but mimic and utilize natural water cycles. They have a sandy/wetlands section, with plants and even wildlife set aside, where water flows thru and is naturally cleaned. They often use very cheap air bubble filtration to move the water thru the wetland/sand filter. No chlorine, or other chemicals, and very clean water.
wow i've never heard of anyone with that kind of setup... I LOVE the natural component. I do have low levels of chlorine, so no living things for me, but I'll try to do everything I can. Do you have any links to resources?
You might want to take a look at the Mike Patey channel. He is just finishing up his 27 ft deep 4 season dive pool in his house with multiple thermoclines and movable floor that comes up thru the water all the way to make a dance floor on the roof deck. He also designs and builds competition aircraft on his channel so you have to look for the house and pool build episodes.. the engineering skills, workmanship and attention to detail is insane.
I just demolished and filled in my pool as the first step of my current remodel. The 17K-gallon kidney-shaped pool was too small for serious swimming, and too large to use as a hot tub. Over the decades I had replaced the pump and filter, with the filter being grossly oversized to reduce backpressure and thus allow a smaller pump to do the job. A fiberglass liner was added to slash chemical use (by 90%!), later shifting over to a "salt pool" with an electrolyzer. When the liner was being installed, I also replace the pool lights with color changing LED units, which was another energy gain, plus fun for parties. Also tried multiple cover systems, from bubble wrap to a trampoline, each of which had major tradeoffs. Despite all the time and money invested, I wasn't ever satisfied with the results. Plus, due to a hill in my back yard (starting to drop away just 10' from the back door), my pool was in the front! It essentially consumed 80% of the available yard, largely preventing many other yard uses. One reason for my remodel is to make my home and property pet-friendly, and I'll want my future dog to have a great yard. (I'll get a kiddie pool, if needed.) The inexpensive bubble-wrap cover did a fantastic job of heating the pool, but aged quickly and was a hassle to take on and off. The trampoline cover was safest by far, but was even more of a hassle to take on and off. A simple tarp cover on a wide spool was the compromise that worked best overall. Best moves overall were the fiberglass liner, salt system and big filter / small pump. Plus, I live in San Diego! It takes me 20 minutes to get from my front door to feet wet in the ocean. Way, WAY better than any pool, and is one of the main reasons none of my pool solutions ever seemed worth it to me. YMMV, for sure.
love the perspective! I love that you were brave enough to fill it in! many people keep a pool for the wrong reasons! luckily I have a large lawn as well... I have a standing invite to every one of my neighbors to come over anytime and use my pool ... I get to nerd out over keeping it with minimal costs (after all the upgrades) and see many more people find joy in it. I will say, I'm an old man at this point, but few things bring as much joy as a pool. IT was brutal when I first moved in, now it costs me like nothing... including heating which I'll get into soon!
@@TwoBitDaVinci Since I wasn't getting much pleasure from my pool, I had considered letting neighbors use it when I wasn't home (or couldn't directly monitor pool use), until I talked to my home insurance provider. The liabilities without me actively supervising pool use skyrocket (something to do with the legal definition of "guest"), and I'd need a separate umbrella policy to cover them (as Airbnb/Vrbo units with pools must do). I'd also need to add controlled-access locks (beyond my simple gate lock), intrusion alarms (area and water) and a fully-automated pool chemistry management system (to shut the pool down if it wasn't safe). To get risk/liability as low as possible, I'd also need to ensure adult supervision in my absence, and ensure they understood basic pool safety and first aid. Bleh. Might as well open a Y! After the liability shock, I went the other way, adding a 6-foot-tall privacy fence (replacing a lattice fence) to limit the "attractive nuisance" risks. That was the beginning of the end for my pool. The final trigger came when my remodel plans included new, more attractive fences, and getting ones capable of protecting a pool I don't use seemed silly.
You are not joking. We purchased our house in Texas in 2022 so this is our 3rd summer with the pool. Actually it is a lot like yours, waterfall and spill over hot tub, and about 22k gallons. Getting the everything dialed in was finally done by May of this year. I purchased the same VSP that you show in your video, game changer. I purchased a used Polaris corded robot (wasn't ready to drop the cash on a new one) that does the floor and side, game changer. I am still running a chlorine, in-line, dispenser but I use 5 tabs a week (pool is in full Texas sun most of the day). The first year I cleaned the main filter 5 times, now I am down to 2 times. I think my largest electrical bill was $600, now down to the latest one was $275 (we have zero solar panels, just the old supplied by the utility service). I run the robot every 2 days, and the water is as clear as can be. One note on the price of chlorine, there was a plant in Lake Charles, Louisiana that caught fire and closed the plant for a significant time period in 2022. That, along with a 20% jump in pool construction during covid, sent demand extremely high. Enjoyed the video, now I'm off to do my morning swim.
I love it Parker, yah a pool in Texas must be pretty awesome as its warmer in the spring through fall. Thanks for the insight on the chlorine prices! did they ever get back to business?
@@TwoBitDaVinci I believe that it is up and running again, after a $170 million reconstruction. The company is KIK Consumer Products and the plant is in Lake Charles, Louisiana.
@TwoBitDaVinci Some advice for you on the salt cell, you’ll get a more life out of it if you chose to clean it with a less aggressive acid to water ration and spray it out with water. As soon as the calcium carbonate is loosen from the acid mix is a good time to start rinsing it off just be care at first for the spray back. The percentage of output doesn’t mean it’s making more chlorine, it just means it running more. An example we always give is at 100% output, your cell is running 60 seconds of every minute and at 50% output it’s running 30 seconds of every minute. Every manufacturer has their own timers, but that’s the principle it works on. Also, I’m not sure at what stage of this that you’re in but if the deck is still pulled up, you have a Really Great Opportunity to increase the size of your plumbing. There’s math involved in determining what size you’ll need (I’m by no means an expert on it but we are a repair contractor in Florida that does work just like this). Anyways, when you increase the size of the plumbing, you decrease the resistance which means you’ll increase your flow rate at roughly the same amount electrical cost. It’s something called Total Dynamic Head, or the friction of your entire pool to include from your pool to your equipment pad and back again. Reference The Experts at @aquastarpoolproducts9092 Steve Barnes is the expert there, guy’s a genius! Thanks for doing what you do, we love watching your videos!
great insights! makes sense on the salt cell... and for the plumbing, no its too late iv'e already poured concrete, so can't change that now, but I'm pretty happy with how it is. But i'll mention that in the next episode!
I was really shocked too. Literally every pool shop I called said, they don't carry them and dont recommend them. I've had mine for a few months now... it's been under cover quite a bit because I want to keep the cement dust out while I'm doing my larger remodel, but just wait till you see the video. I'm a believer, but I also understand what they're saying. For example heating my hot tub only, 20 degrees from 80 to 104 degrees takes 2 hours compared to 30 minutes with gas. but with solar, its zero in terms of cost, just requires scheduling and planning. i'll get into all of it soon!
I'm glad you're getting into this because I'm re-thinking my pool. I had salt water for 15 years but I got tired of replacing the circuit board every 5 years, I also noticed that I have no tree frogs anymore. I started running the pump for 12 hrs in the day with the solar blanket on rather than at night for cheaper electricity. Pumping at night actively cools the pool and I end up burning gas. Please deep dive on the automation system. I need one that has wifi and controls heater (which I have), variable speed pump, UV, ozone (which I don't have yet). Germicidal UV is 254-nm which LEDs do now but no one seems to use LED they still use bulbs. I'm curious to see the performance of your heat pump.
If you use a solar water heater you could reduce your chlorine use significantly although it would have to be sized as per the pool and location. Heat pumps are usually for colder climates.
All very interesting, I have been preaching variable speed pumps for well over 10 years. What size is the heat pump? Does it have RS485 connection on the pcb at all? I have installed a few heat pumps for pool heating, I mainly do hydronics. I automate the hydronics with ESP32, Rpi and Home Assistant. The heat pumps I supply have RS485, making full control rather straightforward. Cheers from Oz
I'm not too familiar with RS485... but i'd love to pick your brain on it. I'd love to control the pool heating as a function of my overall use... like have it turn off If im charing my ev etc... i'd love to chat! there's a contact form on our website www.twobitdavinci.com .... cheers!!
the beauty of that is, it's really easy to do. if you have an old pool pump you already have the electricity, if you are able to turn off the breaker, and move the power over, the pool plumbing should be just unscrew and re-screw. I did it in like 1 hour... super easy. If it's something you're not comfortable with, it's likely only like 100 bucks to a pool guy. Cheers but remember, never do anything you're not comfortable with.
He did mention the skimmer was solar powered, so no cost. The floor/wall cleaners have 30-200wh batteries. Tool batteries are 30-100wh, little enough to easily fit into the solar budget, but if you were paying to charge them off the grid it'd be less than $3/month even charging the biggest one every day with $0.50/kwh electricity. Most likely it'd be less than a kWh/month to charge it weekly.
It might be cool (pun intended) to augment cooling your home by a heat pump and your pool, with a side benifit of warming your pool. You might be interested in a Salt water pool with chlorene generator with salt concentration at roughly 1/10th ocen levels.
Because theoretically it'd be great, but practically it gets complicated and expensive quickly. Not many HVAC companies make pool equipment and vice versa, so getting things hooked up to exchange the heat would be a custom situation every time. Then consider what happens if there's a leak, now you've got refrigerant in your pool and water in your refrigerant. Hopefully the compressor shut down before destroying itself trying to compress the water.
funny right? resistance is a real pain... if i was building this pool from scratch, i'd have large sweeps and no tight 90 degree bends... but alas... I'm going to try to do everything I can short of ripping it all out :)
But that doesn't explain why after shutting down you can press again and it takes a few seconds to shut again, I have seen 3L been added after the first shut...
@@TwoBitDaVinci thank you answering, but I am so sorry 😅 it was a comment for another video, I was watching YT in the TV and yours started while I sent the comment 🤣😅😅😅 It was a video about the way gasoline hose nozzles work, in case you are wondering further
The variable speed pump is the best addition to my pool since the salt chlorination cell, do want to add a heat exchanger for the house A/C to make a heater for the pool but it is spendy! One day….
Why bother? 82-86F is nice for comfortable swimming with solar heating but too hot for cooling the house. Winter heating is even more useless. Only using the pool water with a ground source heat pump might make sense
So something I have wondered and it looks like you might have had a chance for this (though it's too late now is my guess)... Why don't more pool installers put some kind of Heat Exchager UNDER the concrete/stone birder around the pool? This area, unless shaded, is usually super hot and you often splash pool water on it to cool it down. Why not put in something like a driveway snow melt loop but run it in reverse, pull the heat put of the walkway and dump it into the pool though a liquid/liquid heat exchanger in line with the pool pump (which is already running anyway).
Then you don't need those solar thermal heating loops on the roof and you can use that for more PV. Could also combine this idea with an HVAC heat exchanger to dump the waste heat from your HVAC into the pool as well.
It’s weird why sun water heaters almost aren’t used in the US. In meditarían countries they are everywhere. I mean those, which have a few vacuum pipes and a cylindric tank above them. It seems they should be at least twice more efficient in comparison with heat pump. Those vacuum based heaters can be used in cold weather regions. Not to mention about San Diego.
there's a tradeoff for everything. thermal solar heaters don't last as long as solar panels. when i bought my house, i had them, and they were leaking salt water on my pool. it was a huge pain, and I ended up ditching it. A heat pump has a COP of between 3.8 - 5 so they're really efficient at heating water. I wanted to get regular solar panels along the roof instead, because a pool water heater can only do that. but solar panels on my patio can heat my pool, or charge my car or run my AC etc... My goal is to produce all electricity, and with some planning, run everything under the envelope of my daily production. hope that makes sense, but i'll definitely get into this in my next video!
It really doesn’t take much to figure out where power is being used. A clamp on amp meter does the job. Variable speed drives are used all the time in commercial air conditioning. They are on the pumps and air handlers for many systems where there are large changes in demand over the course of a day and season. It’s not uncommon to run an air handler at a lower air flow and ramp up the pumps to provide more chilled or hot water. As loading increases water flow is increased until it’s necessary to ramp up air flow.
I really thought about it... but it is quite tough to pull off... so i settled on this... my heat pump heats my pool, produces water that im storing for gray water , and im piping the cold air for the patio im building... but yeah you're thinking about the same stuff as me!
A big problem is the misconception that you need to run your pool pump 10hrs. This ridiculous. Pool "experts " will swear to long hours constantly. You only need to run pool long enough to filter the water and circulate the chemicals, just enough to keep the pool clean . No more. I had to fight with both my family and the pool guy to reduce the time for years. I eventually had to lock him out of the pump timer. I reduced the 12hrs it was running to 4hrs in the summer and 2 hrs in the winter. Never had a single issue. Now this will vary from pool to pool because of pools are so variable.
interesting! So i found that my phosphate levels rose when i ran it less than like 8 hours or so. My big goal is minimal chemicals, and things like conditioner to "keep chlorine in" if i can run at 300 watts i can add chlorine all the time, and i can afford to lose it without the conditioner. my chemical use has dropped to basically nothing... and my chlorine levels are always at the bottom of "acceptable" .... but i was only able to do this because i got the power use down from 2200 watts to 300. but what a fun challenge this has been. now that my bills are zero thanks to solar, i'm enjoying this battle. but when I first moved in... it was more dread than joy
Heat pump? What?!!! In Florida we just run the water onto a black radiator on the roof and back down again. Pool heated. Voila. I admit I don't know how much these are, but it's got to be cheaper than a heat pump. Check it out.
Yah solar thermal panels are great! But they don't last as long as electricity producing solar panels. my house had a big leak in our pool panels that was spraying salt water on my roof. Also, thermal solar only heats your pool, but what about when you dont need that? I want traditional solar panels, so that I can heat my pool, or charge my car or run my AC... that flexibility is important to me. we wouldn't even be using the pool in the winter, but with solar panels, I can still produce energy for our home heating etc. that was my thought process, but yes those thermal panels are a great option, just be sure to keep an eye on them and catch any leaks!
@@TwoBitDaVinci thanks for that. I didn't have a pool but I'm moving soon and I'm looking for a house with a pool. I hadn't heard that about the thermal panels. I agree on the solar for sure, but I was referring to the heat pump. But if I'm not mistaken heat pumps are reversible so it could act as a chiller too, right? That would be an advantage.
0:52 number one stop using those expensive pumps that cost a lot of energy. You don't need it Number two stopped using all the expensive chemicals, once again unnecessary Water filters, unnecessary and expensive So how do you make a pool without conventional pumps, water filters or chemicals You just need to have natural filters for your water, and you need bubble pumps to move your water to those filters. That's it. Gravity will do the rest Bubble pumps are like 8 w to run. It's nothing Something like 10 to 20% of the volume of the pool needs to exist in separate filters So simply lifting your water a couple of feet and dumping it into containers of rocks which then dump into your pool is the same concept as water flowing over the rocks of a river and purifying it because of all the bacteria that live on the rocks that eat all the stuff in the water
haha! home ownership is both a source of amazing joy and pride, and headache. When things break there's no one to call to fix it but yourself. But you also get all the benefits of home value appreciation
Keeps the kids busy… … and when the government comes & tells you that public swimming is illegal for months [like the crazies & whackos did during covid], you can still get non-impact exercise & occupy your time!
it's dumb and expensive for you. there's a reason they are popular, a lot of people want them, but few think about the actual costs. My goal is to have everything I want, but try to share ways to make it more reasonable. I now heat and clean my pool and pay 0 for electricity. To me that's pretty amazing
great point David! We have both our boys getting lessons, and its great exercise! and I let all our neighbors use it too... nothing makes me happier than knowing its actually getting use!
Hey you, yes you, are you RICH? Do you have a ridiculously expensive pool? Are you too cheap to hire another human to clean your pool for you like they used to do? Here's a robot!
Sorry but this type of Videos should be a blast from the Past. Show me a country where people can still have the luxury to waste Water for Pools🤔Seems not enough peoples think and react for Future Generations....just for own.... '' Fun'.... 🤔
In the mid-Atlantic region of the United States there is no shortage of water, so all good here! 20-30K gallons of water isn’t much, it easily stays filled from natural rainwater.
@@cyberGEK Some Regions in the world get Problems more or less hard in Future... (even they pay the bill of global warming with higher Sealevels...which could catch more landmass back to the Sea and the water eat his way slowly but surely to the landside and munchy some Pools and Houses on the way) but this places makes the Global Problem not less. If you can't pay more the higher and higher Prices for food....you can imagine what could be a reason)
Dude that’s sick. What a setup, can’t wait to see the rest of this series. Keep up the good work brother
Tinkering with this stuff and doing an Excel simulation 20 years ago I came to the same conclusion about pump energy per flow quantity. A few points:
1. The salt cell has a flow sensor switch which sometimes are calibrated poorly to require a high minimum flow rate. Bend it to adjust it to allow a lower flow which is not really an issue as long as the flow is positive.
2. Check valves are really restrictive with the spring, so you can remove the spring to minimize restriction.
3. Use long bends as much as possible instead of restricting elbows.
4. Starite DE 110 filters have the lowest advertised flow restriction, much better than sand filters.
5. The two wheel constant volume pump motor are good at low flow rates but pricey. I use one with an inline easy to clean filter which is great to catch dog hair from my crazy water loving golden retriever. But I curious to try your robots.
6. Solar heating requires a minimum flow to overcome the height and not cavitate.
7. A pool cover is a great investment like the another commenter noted, it vastly reduces heat loss and water loss from evaporation. Besides the vinyl motorized cover I have a second manual bubble insulated cover for the the colder season. Insulation under the pool and dry soil also help if possible.
8. I have an Arduino that controls the pump based on PV solar power to optimize solar heating. It saves a ton of energy compared to that dumb brain Pentair Easytouch controller I have just like Two bit. I really need to publish the design and program.
can you tell me more about your Arduino setup??
Please publish !
@2BD, very intriguing engineering redesign Solutions you present here. I'll be looking into many of these myself. Btw, have you thought of using UV water decontamination instead of salt or chlorine? My understanding is that it's very efficient energy wise and as effective.
I was wondering about copper ionizers which are solar powered with little floating panels. They have a solid copper sleeve that gets used up over a few months instead of chlorine.
Our in-ground pool in Seattle is heated by a solar water heating system that has was first installed in 1987. Last week I replaced the last 3 remaining original panels which were still working just fine, but I wanted fewer larger collectors rather than more smaller ones. 3 others were storm damaged over the years (tree limbs), and the remaining 2 did start leaking. BUT, the overall system has lasted over 30 years and I can easily keep the pool at 83-85F and the hot tub (shared system) to 105F just using solar. The system uses the same variable speed pump as the pool so no secondary pump required. (Our backup gas heater died 12 years ago and we've heated solely by solar ever since which has worked out pretty well. If we get an early heat wave, we can't quickly heat up the pool, but that's about it. In Seattle it's NOT an all year outdoor pool!) Solar Pool heating is probably THE most efficient way to heat a pool. Unglazed collectors are cheap, lightweight, durable, and effective.
The other thing that makes an ENORMOUS difference in our climate is a pool cover. Here the delta T between Daytime and nighttime can be 25-30F so leaving a pool uncovered over night results in a 10F drop in pool temp. With the pool cover, 1-2F drop so the heat demand to maintain a temperature is MUCH lower.
I look forward to the next segment in this series!
Another benefit to Salt Chlorinator; chlorine pucks also contain "conditioner" (aka CYA) that gets added when you use pucks. CYA does not evaporate out of your pool and when you collect too much, it prevents the chlorine already in your pool from sanitizing and algae blooms will happen. Salt chlorinators don't add CYA to your pool; the chlorinator converts salt into chlorine, chlorine gets used, converts back to salt, and the process starts again.
oooh, bit of a different type of video, i'm going to really enjoy this
This is engineer dad heaven
What crazy timing on your video. I just moved into a house and was shocked at my 790$ energy bill. Have 29 solar panels on the roof (they weren't working during time due to prev owner neglect) and have a 20+ year old pool pump. Going to use this information and got a pool guy coming out next week to talk new pumps & robots! Thanks for the great video!!!
funny right? My wife really wanted a pool, and for like a year I dreaded it, especially because I didn't realize how thirsty for electricity it was! But like all things, with some fine tuning I started to actually enjoy this process. Now we have a warm pool, and we can heat the hot tub ( with some planning and scheduling you'll see why in part 2) and have a zero bill. I've also got rid of all the chemicals and make it all so easy... I struggled... because I felt the need to stop all this work, to make our videos, but I've decided anything I nerd out over, I'm going to share here... even if the views aren't great lol... gotta LOVE what you do... and keep doing what you love... next I need to get disciplined about swimming every single day and get in great shape too lol...
I have a similar setup. 16,000 gallons, heat pump, variable speed pump, chlorinator.
My research shows you should try to turn over the pool twice a day, so I run mine at 44 gallons per minute for 12 hours, which totals right about 32,000 gallons.
I’ve been considering going to a slower speed for longer, and your video just got me thinking it through.
I’m excited for the rest of the series!
yeah for sure! how about 30 GPM for 18 hours? :) although your savings are alreayd huge having a variable speed and running at 44 ... but yeah fun exercise to do... i'm working on a calculator that will help with all of this! what kind of heat pump heater did you get? how do you like it?
@@TwoBitDaVinci All of the equipment is Pentair; Pump, filter, and heat pump heater. The brand was purely a choice of the pool installer. So far, all equipment works well, and the heat pump heater will put out a surprising amount of heat at a moments notice. My biggest complaint about the equipment is the complete lack of connectivity features available unless you are willing to spend another $1000+. With soooo many things being connected to the internet now a days, I feel like the pool industry is just looking to make as much money as possible. The ability to see the water temp, set heater temp, and control the pump seems like a simple thing to add. Heck, even the display on the heater showing the temperature is this tiny little display that is barely visible on a bright day. Frustrating.
I will add that I really appreciate that the pump can be set by RPM or flow, and will show you the exact amperage draw while running.
I use flow since it allows me to dial in the exact amount of gallons per minute the pump is pushing. RPM means next to nothing in a situation like that.
Knowing the exact amperage allows me to see my energy savings in real time when I adjust the flow.
Cool stuff!
Loving this series so far! Very much looking forward to heat pump episode as I have been wanting to upgrade my system. Great to hear that you'll be adding solar capacity to help with the heat pump energy consumption.
I have a little preliminary data for you... I can heat my spa which is obvioiusly much smaller, from 80-100 degrees in about 2 hours... my old gas heater did it in 30 minutes... so yes its 4x longer, but its free thanks to my solar! The key will be scheduling and planning :)
@@TwoBitDaVinci That’s a pretty good price! Haha. If it needs scheduling, it shall be scheduled.
@@alwayzdancing like many things in life, the costs are high if you're impulsive, but with some preparation and planning, you can have everything you want and do it within your envelope :)
i have had my fiberglass pool in Central NY since 1999....i use a sand filter and chlorine tablets....I recently purchased an electric cleaner (Dolphin by Maytronics) and LOVE it....i only use the regular vacuum 2 times a year now, once in the spring and once in the fall....the salt water conversion is my biggest decision and have stayed with tablets since the price of the unit scared me having to replace it every 4-5 yrs.....I only run the pool 6 hours a day and use a solar cover to retain the heat even though I have a natural gas heater, which I have only use a few times since the summer has been very sunny and hot...I keep the pool at 84 minimum too!!!.....like someone stated in other comments though is the CYA, cyanuric acid, which is a stabilizer for the chlorine and it can wreak havoc on your pool after yrs of using tablets....the common remedy is draining half the pool and re-filling which is 7000 gallons PLUS with a fiberglass pool, it is very difficult because dropping the water too low can cause the walls to buckle...i appreciate all your info as it is good to see other sides of the equation and the experiences using different ideas...what works for some may not be feasible or economically sound for others but it is nice to get constructive ideas on how to enjoy a pool for yrs like I have done
thanks for sharing Brian! So how long is your "pool season" how long do you keep it hot? And what area do you live? Very interesting, San Diego is quite cool... although its currently pretty hot, so a pool cover might be a good idea, but our odd shape makes it tough...
so much to it, which is why I'm really having fun nerding out. But I will say for everyone, get a variable speed pump!
Brian I think this may be the best comment to explain the challenges of engineering. Everything is a trade off. fiberglass buckling ... wow... is it in ground? I'm trying to think where the buckling problem could come from. I have a plaster inground. but as you point out, there are a series of challenges to all things in life, and the key is to find your own way. I will say the chlorinator issue isn't too bad, my pool guy told me about some aftermarket replacements that are way cheaper... but even then, with proper care I think its cheaper than Chrolorine, and way more automated. Something to think about. Plus salt water feels SO good on the skin... night and day compared to fresh water pools with high chlorine levels like at spas and hotels which leave you feeling bleached.
Rickie, You the man! I'm sure your family appreciates having a nice pool to cool off in at a somewhat reasonable maintenance cost. Great job!
thank you, for a while the steps were baby steps, but at this point, when we can have a get together and entertain our family and friends, and have it not cost us even a single penny, yeah my wife is quite the fan. so much more to come though! can't wait to share it all with you!
How come there is no integration of house hold air con to pool heating .. and maybe vice versa in winter...?? 20k gallons of water seems like amassive heat store/sink
As it happens, I just acquired a pool myself! I have a similar Pentair system but it's an older one that uses an external module for WiFi and doesn't work with their latest app - but it does work! I have solar heating panels that are controlled but am fighting leaks. I also have a propane heater that's not currently working for the spa. Mine is salt but the previous owner stopped using it years ago, thankfully it came to life with the application of salt, but my pool guy still adds chlorine from time to time - grr! I have found you can cut evap WAY down by not using the watrerfall. In my case I run the main pump (Pentair fixed speed) most of the day and then switch to the spa towards evening for just an hour or two to clean that out. I'm loving the idea of a variable speed pump but not the cost so that's a problem I'll cross later. Right now my monthly bills have never crested $200 but the I've not been running my AC much - that will change. Sadly right now I cannot find a good way to measure power usage, I have two panels in my main garage and a third in my detached. I use a Sense at a different location and love it but it won't work for this - I'm stumped but want to monitor power.
I'm looking forward to your heatpump video! I'm not a fan of the propane and I'm certain fueling it won't be cheap. I hope you can give some good stats on yours! I'm particularly interested in knowing how well it can heat a spa! Most of the units I've looked at claim they cannot :( I'm not sure my spa will get tons of use but it would be nice to have the option... This is going to be a VERY interesting video series!
the older suction cleaners also cause stress on the concrete/gunite, that leads to cracking. Resurfacing a pool is real costly. Vinyl liners are the alternative, and they rip, and can "float" in a heavy rain. seeing a pool floating on top of a soaked lawn is a real treat. It is cheaper mentally and monetarily to fill it all in at that point.
that's a great point... let me ask you... I'm constantly picking out what looks like sand from my pool robot cleaner... is that stuff falling in, or the pool breaking down? it's a very small amount... but I also have some old halogen bulbs that need replacing ... so next spring I think I'm going to empty the pool, try to use the water as best I can, and do a full assessment of the state of everything ... cheers!
Ricky maximizing those "business expenses" like a boss.
lol... well ... I spend so much time engineering in my daily life, only to set it all aside to make a "normal" video... but if this channel is going to grow I have to merge my two worlds right?
You should check out natural swimming pools/ponds. They are specifically designed for swimming, but mimic and utilize natural water cycles. They have a sandy/wetlands section, with plants and even wildlife set aside, where water flows thru and is naturally cleaned. They often use very cheap air bubble filtration to move the water thru the wetland/sand filter. No chlorine, or other chemicals, and very clean water.
wow i've never heard of anyone with that kind of setup... I LOVE the natural component. I do have low levels of chlorine, so no living things for me, but I'll try to do everything I can. Do you have any links to resources?
You might want to take a look at the Mike Patey channel. He is just finishing up his 27 ft deep 4 season dive pool in his house with multiple thermoclines and movable floor that comes up thru the water all the way to make a dance floor on the roof deck. He also designs and builds competition aircraft on his channel so you have to look for the house and pool build episodes.. the engineering skills, workmanship and attention to detail is insane.
I just demolished and filled in my pool as the first step of my current remodel.
The 17K-gallon kidney-shaped pool was too small for serious swimming, and too large to use as a hot tub. Over the decades I had replaced the pump and filter, with the filter being grossly oversized to reduce backpressure and thus allow a smaller pump to do the job. A fiberglass liner was added to slash chemical use (by 90%!), later shifting over to a "salt pool" with an electrolyzer. When the liner was being installed, I also replace the pool lights with color changing LED units, which was another energy gain, plus fun for parties. Also tried multiple cover systems, from bubble wrap to a trampoline, each of which had major tradeoffs.
Despite all the time and money invested, I wasn't ever satisfied with the results. Plus, due to a hill in my back yard (starting to drop away just 10' from the back door), my pool was in the front! It essentially consumed 80% of the available yard, largely preventing many other yard uses. One reason for my remodel is to make my home and property pet-friendly, and I'll want my future dog to have a great yard. (I'll get a kiddie pool, if needed.)
The inexpensive bubble-wrap cover did a fantastic job of heating the pool, but aged quickly and was a hassle to take on and off. The trampoline cover was safest by far, but was even more of a hassle to take on and off. A simple tarp cover on a wide spool was the compromise that worked best overall. Best moves overall were the fiberglass liner, salt system and big filter / small pump.
Plus, I live in San Diego! It takes me 20 minutes to get from my front door to feet wet in the ocean. Way, WAY better than any pool, and is one of the main reasons none of my pool solutions ever seemed worth it to me. YMMV, for sure.
love the perspective! I love that you were brave enough to fill it in! many people keep a pool for the wrong reasons! luckily I have a large lawn as well... I have a standing invite to every one of my neighbors to come over anytime and use my pool ... I get to nerd out over keeping it with minimal costs (after all the upgrades) and see many more people find joy in it. I will say, I'm an old man at this point, but few things bring as much joy as a pool. IT was brutal when I first moved in, now it costs me like nothing... including heating which I'll get into soon!
@@TwoBitDaVinci Since I wasn't getting much pleasure from my pool, I had considered letting neighbors use it when I wasn't home (or couldn't directly monitor pool use), until I talked to my home insurance provider. The liabilities without me actively supervising pool use skyrocket (something to do with the legal definition of "guest"), and I'd need a separate umbrella policy to cover them (as Airbnb/Vrbo units with pools must do). I'd also need to add controlled-access locks (beyond my simple gate lock), intrusion alarms (area and water) and a fully-automated pool chemistry management system (to shut the pool down if it wasn't safe). To get risk/liability as low as possible, I'd also need to ensure adult supervision in my absence, and ensure they understood basic pool safety and first aid. Bleh. Might as well open a Y!
After the liability shock, I went the other way, adding a 6-foot-tall privacy fence (replacing a lattice fence) to limit the "attractive nuisance" risks. That was the beginning of the end for my pool. The final trigger came when my remodel plans included new, more attractive fences, and getting ones capable of protecting a pool I don't use seemed silly.
You are not joking. We purchased our house in Texas in 2022 so this is our 3rd summer with the pool. Actually it is a lot like yours, waterfall and spill over hot tub, and about 22k gallons. Getting the everything dialed in was finally done by May of this year. I purchased the same VSP that you show in your video, game changer. I purchased a used Polaris corded robot (wasn't ready to drop the cash on a new one) that does the floor and side, game changer. I am still running a chlorine, in-line, dispenser but I use 5 tabs a week (pool is in full Texas sun most of the day). The first year I cleaned the main filter 5 times, now I am down to 2 times. I think my largest electrical bill was $600, now down to the latest one was $275 (we have zero solar panels, just the old supplied by the utility service). I run the robot every 2 days, and the water is as clear as can be. One note on the price of chlorine, there was a plant in Lake Charles, Louisiana that caught fire and closed the plant for a significant time period in 2022. That, along with a 20% jump in pool construction during covid, sent demand extremely high. Enjoyed the video, now I'm off to do my morning swim.
I love it Parker, yah a pool in Texas must be pretty awesome as its warmer in the spring through fall. Thanks for the insight on the chlorine prices! did they ever get back to business?
@@TwoBitDaVinci I believe that it is up and running again, after a $170 million reconstruction. The company is KIK Consumer Products and the plant is in Lake Charles, Louisiana.
This was a really good episode Ricky. Looking forward to the next one.
@TwoBitDaVinci
Some advice for you on the salt cell, you’ll get a more life out of it if you chose to clean it with a less aggressive acid to water ration and spray it out with water. As soon as the calcium carbonate is loosen from the acid mix is a good time to start rinsing it off just be care at first for the spray back.
The percentage of output doesn’t mean it’s making more chlorine, it just means it running more.
An example we always give is at 100% output, your cell is running 60 seconds of every minute and at 50% output it’s running 30 seconds of every minute. Every manufacturer has their own timers, but that’s the principle it works on.
Also, I’m not sure at what stage of this that you’re in but if the deck is still pulled up, you have a Really Great Opportunity to increase the size of your plumbing. There’s math involved in determining what size you’ll need (I’m by no means an expert on it but we are a repair contractor in Florida that does work just like this).
Anyways, when you increase the size of the plumbing, you decrease the resistance which means you’ll increase your flow rate at roughly the same amount electrical cost.
It’s something called Total Dynamic Head, or the friction of your entire pool to include from your pool to your equipment pad and back again.
Reference The Experts at @aquastarpoolproducts9092
Steve Barnes is the expert there, guy’s a genius!
Thanks for doing what you do, we love watching your videos!
I forgot to mention, using energy efficient sweep 90’s (instead of hard 90’s) will also reduce friction in your pool plumbing. Thanks again!
great insights! makes sense on the salt cell... and for the plumbing, no its too late iv'e already poured concrete, so can't change that now, but I'm pretty happy with how it is. But i'll mention that in the next episode!
🙌🏻 nice job guys
Really want to see the results of your heat pump heater. Surprised nobody in SD recommends them. My home heat pump works great.
I was really shocked too. Literally every pool shop I called said, they don't carry them and dont recommend them. I've had mine for a few months now... it's been under cover quite a bit because I want to keep the cement dust out while I'm doing my larger remodel, but just wait till you see the video. I'm a believer, but I also understand what they're saying. For example heating my hot tub only, 20 degrees from 80 to 104 degrees takes 2 hours compared to 30 minutes with gas. but with solar, its zero in terms of cost, just requires scheduling and planning. i'll get into all of it soon!
I'm glad you're getting into this because I'm re-thinking my pool. I had salt water for 15 years but I got tired of replacing the circuit board every 5 years, I also noticed that I have no tree frogs anymore. I started running the pump for 12 hrs in the day with the solar blanket on rather than at night for cheaper electricity. Pumping at night actively cools the pool and I end up burning gas. Please deep dive on the automation system. I need one that has wifi and controls heater (which I have), variable speed pump, UV, ozone (which I don't have yet). Germicidal UV is 254-nm which LEDs do now but no one seems to use LED they still use bulbs. I'm curious to see the performance of your heat pump.
If you use a solar water heater you could reduce your chlorine use significantly although it would have to be sized as per the pool and location. Heat pumps are usually for colder climates.
All very interesting, I have been preaching variable speed pumps for well over 10 years.
What size is the heat pump?
Does it have RS485 connection on the pcb at all?
I have installed a few heat pumps for pool heating, I mainly do hydronics.
I automate the hydronics with ESP32, Rpi and Home Assistant.
The heat pumps I supply have RS485, making full control rather straightforward.
Cheers from Oz
I'm not too familiar with RS485... but i'd love to pick your brain on it. I'd love to control the pool heating as a function of my overall use... like have it turn off If im charing my ev etc... i'd love to chat! there's a contact form on our website www.twobitdavinci.com .... cheers!!
@@TwoBitDaVinci sent an email your way
Great idea for a series. Should be quite interesting.
Love this!!! Geeking out on pool maintenance and heating etc!
What was fhe cost to install the variable speed pool pump? Shouldn't that go into the payback calculation?
the beauty of that is, it's really easy to do. if you have an old pool pump you already have the electricity, if you are able to turn off the breaker, and move the power over, the pool plumbing should be just unscrew and re-screw. I did it in like 1 hour... super easy. If it's something you're not comfortable with, it's likely only like 100 bucks to a pool guy. Cheers but remember, never do anything you're not comfortable with.
I did not see any mention of the power used to charge the batteries for the mobile pool cleaners. How does that affect over-all cost?
He did mention the skimmer was solar powered, so no cost. The floor/wall cleaners have 30-200wh batteries. Tool batteries are 30-100wh, little enough to easily fit into the solar budget, but if you were paying to charge them off the grid it'd be less than $3/month even charging the biggest one every day with $0.50/kwh electricity. Most likely it'd be less than a kWh/month to charge it weekly.
It might be cool (pun intended) to augment cooling your home by a heat pump and your pool, with a side benifit of warming your pool.
You might be interested in a Salt water pool with chlorene generator with salt concentration at roughly 1/10th ocen levels.
Why is there not a system which takes heat from your home’s A/C removing heat from the house and uses it to heat the pool?
Because theoretically it'd be great, but practically it gets complicated and expensive quickly. Not many HVAC companies make pool equipment and vice versa, so getting things hooked up to exchange the heat would be a custom situation every time. Then consider what happens if there's a leak, now you've got refrigerant in your pool and water in your refrigerant. Hopefully the compressor shut down before destroying itself trying to compress the water.
I also believe chlorination cell should be above the filter due to gas build up can plow up I use to install them and them cells are to low
Ooo i love myself a swimming pool series. Techie and efficient!
This video perfectly shows Amperage and resistance. I2=R
funny right? resistance is a real pain... if i was building this pool from scratch, i'd have large sweeps and no tight 90 degree bends... but alas... I'm going to try to do everything I can short of ripping it all out :)
This is gonna be huge
But that doesn't explain why after shutting down you can press again and it takes a few seconds to shut again, I have seen 3L been added after the first shut...
can you elaborate... I'm not following
@@TwoBitDaVinci thank you answering, but I am so sorry 😅 it was a comment for another video, I was watching YT in the TV and yours started while I sent the comment 🤣😅😅😅
It was a video about the way gasoline hose nozzles work, in case you are wondering further
The variable speed pump is the best addition to my pool since the salt chlorination cell, do want to add a heat exchanger for the house A/C to make a heater for the pool but it is spendy! One day….
Why bother? 82-86F is nice for comfortable swimming with solar heating but too hot for cooling the house. Winter heating is even more useless. Only using the pool water with a ground source heat pump might make sense
So something I have wondered and it looks like you might have had a chance for this (though it's too late now is my guess)...
Why don't more pool installers put some kind of Heat Exchager UNDER the concrete/stone birder around the pool?
This area, unless shaded, is usually super hot and you often splash pool water on it to cool it down.
Why not put in something like a driveway snow melt loop but run it in reverse, pull the heat put of the walkway and dump it into the pool though a liquid/liquid heat exchanger in line with the pool pump (which is already running anyway).
Then you don't need those solar thermal heating loops on the roof and you can use that for more PV.
Could also combine this idea with an HVAC heat exchanger to dump the waste heat from your HVAC into the pool as well.
super interesting idea! but i think it would cost quite a bit... if i could build a pool all over from scratch heck yes!
It’s weird why sun water heaters almost aren’t used in the US. In meditarían countries they are everywhere. I mean those, which have a few vacuum pipes and a cylindric tank above them. It seems they should be at least twice more efficient in comparison with heat pump.
Those vacuum based heaters can be used in cold weather regions. Not to mention about San Diego.
there's a tradeoff for everything. thermal solar heaters don't last as long as solar panels. when i bought my house, i had them, and they were leaking salt water on my pool. it was a huge pain, and I ended up ditching it.
A heat pump has a COP of between 3.8 - 5 so they're really efficient at heating water. I wanted to get regular solar panels along the roof instead, because a pool water heater can only do that. but solar panels on my patio can heat my pool, or charge my car or run my AC etc... My goal is to produce all electricity, and with some planning, run everything under the envelope of my daily production. hope that makes sense, but i'll definitely get into this in my next video!
It really doesn’t take much to figure out where power is being used. A clamp on amp meter does the job.
Variable speed drives are used all the time in commercial air conditioning. They are on the pumps and air handlers for many systems where there are large changes in demand over the course of a day and season. It’s not uncommon to run an air handler at a lower air flow and ramp up the pumps to provide more chilled or hot water. As loading increases water flow is increased until it’s necessary to ramp up air flow.
Will this work for salt water pools
yeah it has no impact, I have a salt pool as well... but pumps are salt/ no salt agnostic!
Why isn't the waste heat from your homes air conditioner waste heat not being synced into the pool?
I really thought about it... but it is quite tough to pull off... so i settled on this... my heat pump heats my pool, produces water that im storing for gray water , and im piping the cold air for the patio im building... but yeah you're thinking about the same stuff as me!
My take from this: A pool is fucking expensive no matter what 😂
😂
Hey, the title of the vid says What This and I think you meant Watch This.
Interesting... you should join my discord and help me with titles!
A big problem is the misconception that you need to run your pool pump 10hrs. This ridiculous. Pool "experts " will swear to long hours constantly. You only need to run pool long enough to filter the water and circulate the chemicals, just enough to keep the pool clean . No more. I had to fight with both my family and the pool guy to reduce the time for years. I eventually had to lock him out of the pump timer. I reduced the 12hrs it was running to 4hrs in the summer and 2 hrs in the winter. Never had a single issue. Now this will vary from pool to pool because of pools are so variable.
interesting! So i found that my phosphate levels rose when i ran it less than like 8 hours or so. My big goal is minimal chemicals, and things like conditioner to "keep chlorine in" if i can run at 300 watts i can add chlorine all the time, and i can afford to lose it without the conditioner. my chemical use has dropped to basically nothing... and my chlorine levels are always at the bottom of "acceptable" .... but i was only able to do this because i got the power use down from 2200 watts to 300.
but what a fun challenge this has been. now that my bills are zero thanks to solar, i'm enjoying this battle. but when I first moved in... it was more dread than joy
What a great idea, now we're throwing lithium ion batteries in our pools.. Cool. Progress.
What this!
You don’t want to irrigate lawn with grey water. You’ll spread bacteria, etc
Glad I don't own a pool! But, this reminds me to make a friendship with someone that does have a pool. Obviously!
Heat pump? What?!!! In Florida we just run the water onto a black radiator on the roof and back down again. Pool heated. Voila. I admit I don't know how much these are, but it's got to be cheaper than a heat pump. Check it out.
Yah solar thermal panels are great! But they don't last as long as electricity producing solar panels. my house had a big leak in our pool panels that was spraying salt water on my roof.
Also, thermal solar only heats your pool, but what about when you dont need that? I want traditional solar panels, so that I can heat my pool, or charge my car or run my AC... that flexibility is important to me. we wouldn't even be using the pool in the winter, but with solar panels, I can still produce energy for our home heating etc.
that was my thought process, but yes those thermal panels are a great option, just be sure to keep an eye on them and catch any leaks!
@@TwoBitDaVinci thanks for that. I didn't have a pool but I'm moving soon and I'm looking for a house with a pool. I hadn't heard that about the thermal panels. I agree on the solar for sure, but I was referring to the heat pump. But if I'm not mistaken heat pumps are reversible so it could act as a chiller too, right? That would be an advantage.
Note to self, avoid pool houses like plague 😂😂
it's easy and cheap when they sponsor the perfect pool....
Good job
🙋♂️ THANKS,RICKY,🙏 UP TILL NOW ,THE PERFECT POOL 🏊 WAS A FRIENDS NEARBY,WHO WOULD SHARE IT 😎💚💚💚
Mike Patey makes the perfect swimming pools. Look him up on UA-cam. He's a phenomenal aerospace engineer and pilot.
your power costs are *THROUGH THE ROOF* my dude.
Where does this guy get all this money.
👍
If they had a solar panel they could drive up and out of the pool to a charging Bed in the sun
0:52 number one stop using those expensive pumps that cost a lot of energy. You don't need it
Number two stopped using all the expensive chemicals, once again unnecessary
Water filters, unnecessary and expensive
So how do you make a pool without conventional pumps, water filters or chemicals
You just need to have natural filters for your water, and you need bubble pumps to move your water to those filters. That's it. Gravity will do the rest
Bubble pumps are like 8 w to run. It's nothing
Something like 10 to 20% of the volume of the pool needs to exist in separate filters
So simply lifting your water a couple of feet and dumping it into containers of rocks which then dump into your pool is the same concept as water flowing over the rocks of a river and purifying it because of all the bacteria that live on the rocks that eat all the stuff in the water
I'm not sure that would keep the algae from growing. I'd love to know if you have experience with it!
First world problems and pumping consumptionism, I count that here will be science problems not advert of stuff
This makes me so scared of home ownership
haha! home ownership is both a source of amazing joy and pride, and headache. When things break there's no one to call to fix it but yourself. But you also get all the benefits of home value appreciation
TLDR: Having a pool is a dumb and expensive idea. :^)
Keeps the kids busy…
… and when the government comes & tells you that public swimming is illegal for months [like the crazies & whackos did during covid], you can still get non-impact exercise & occupy your time!
it's dumb and expensive for you. there's a reason they are popular, a lot of people want them, but few think about the actual costs. My goal is to have everything I want, but try to share ways to make it more reasonable. I now heat and clean my pool and pay 0 for electricity. To me that's pretty amazing
great point David! We have both our boys getting lessons, and its great exercise! and I let all our neighbors use it too... nothing makes me happier than knowing its actually getting use!
@@TwoBitDaVinci Agreed. When I worked for REC Solar, we had a lot of customers with pools and hot tubs who were paying insane electricity bills.
Elon Musk is impressed.
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Ditch the chemicals and get a natural pool! You don't see healthy waterways needing bad chemicals to keep themselves clean.
Hey you, yes you, are you RICH? Do you have a ridiculously expensive pool? Are you too cheap to hire another human to clean your pool for you like they used to do? Here's a robot!
Sorry but this type of Videos should be a blast from the Past. Show me a country where people can still have the luxury to waste Water for Pools🤔Seems not enough peoples think and react for Future Generations....just for own.... '' Fun'.... 🤔
In the mid-Atlantic region of the United States there is no shortage of water, so all good here! 20-30K gallons of water isn’t much, it easily stays filled from natural rainwater.
@@cyberGEK Some Regions in the world get Problems more or less hard in Future... (even they pay the bill of global warming with higher Sealevels...which could catch more landmass back to the Sea and the water eat his way slowly but surely to the landside and munchy some Pools and Houses on the way) but this places makes the Global Problem not less. If you can't pay more the higher and higher Prices for food....you can imagine what could be a reason)