Literally exactly how I reacted when I first saw them lmao. "Oh so they're basically temples but even less decks will want them? Wait, they're typed? OH."
So what's so great about typed dual lands? I've been playing for about a year now and can't think of any use for them aside for a Nature's Lore (or equivalent) fetch for a forest type, High Tide synergy with islands, or something like Anger. Shocks, at least, could enter untapped, and the triome set from New Capenna are triomes (even though they enter tapped too). Tl;dr, why are land types so important?
@@Hypervolterox Aside from tutoring, there are a lot of decent synergies that count land typings. Cabal Coffers, Blanchwood Armor, and Flow of Knowledge, to name a few, but it's really the tutoring that makes it so good. As game length decreases, so too does your landcount, and fetchlands start to act as doubles of each of the lands in your deck with typings, making your deck a lot more consistent in any format.
In golgari you can set up the surveil trigger with a worldly tutor for an extra entomb. Might not be super exciting, but as a reanimator player I love that kind of stuff.
I was thinking putting it in my Golgari Dredge decks to be one more unique land for Field of the Dead, as well as being able to remove one more basic for more reliable Hermit Druid activations.
I almost cut underground mortuary from my Dina soulsteeper cEDH build until I found this interaction with vampiric/worldly, and it's been part of my strategy ever since.
It’s essentially a powercrept scry land which isn’t necessarily bad since the scry lands don’t see much play. It also is another budget friendly option compared to shock lands but has almost the same amount of utility as said with abilities that fetch so I think it’s good for the game even though it’s not the flashiest addition
They're just another series of commander cards with temporary relevance for standard. Which for standard & pioneer, they're just scrylands as there's no way to fetch. They're 100% irrelevant for modern
@@Zevox144 The only meta deck looking at these is Murktide. And most Murktide players have came to the conclusion that the lose of tempo isn't worth the opportunity to surviel with how tight their land base already is. It's moreso being compared to horizon lands
Without watching the vid (I will) to influence me, I think these will shine Q1 2025 in Standard when Triomes rotate out and things may or may not slow down a bit. They will be great in 2 pair control decks, and may even replace Triomes in Domain - Spelunking can replace Stomper.
It seems great in two-colored decks. It’s a common play in three plus color decks to hold a fetch land then, if OP doesn’t do anything you need to respond to, grab a triome or drop a shock in tapped. I could see decks, maybe Murktide, that wouldn’t mind one copy to grab off the first fetch for that extra surveil up front
Many of my EDH decks have the common "enters tapped" duals specifically for fetching when I don't need the mana, so these are strict upgrades in those scenarios. Especially in my more-graveyard focused decks so I can just psuedo-Entomb/mill my own cards a just teensy bit faster.
I think most decks with fetchlands with run exactly one of these (at least in Modern.) The ability to fetch EOT and filter your next draw is going to come up quite a bit, I think.
It depends on the colors: some don't care at all of graveyard, other pairs do love them. I expect golgari, rakdos and dimir ones to spike, while simic, bros and probably selesnya to be a bit low. Sadly, they occupy a rare slot
I think just being fetchable will have them see some play here and there. I'm not sure if I personally will outside of my Anikthea deck that I need more self mill but couldn't settle on cuts.
I cant wait for domain to have a fetchable dual land that ALSO filters or puts their reanimation target in graveyard. They seem to be doing everything to avoid a rotation except a rotation now.
I often run a single ETB tapped fetchable dual in my EDH decks. Generally with more colors thats a triome but with less colors I still usually run one of the common ones. I think that this is a fine step up over running the already ETB tapped lands but I also don't think its a crazy step up.
They're a fusion of dominaria united's fetchable uncommon lands and a twist on the theros temples, theater is a definite upgrade from the fetchable snow land in my Prosper deck, strictly because the former will do more for my deck than the latter is doing.
These seem like these will be good. As you pointed out, even though the Theros lands aren't typed they are still played as a 1 or 2 of in a lot of decks in non-commander formats. The fact that these are typed means that you just get that scry/surveil effect when you need it, rather than when you draw it. I don't think they'll be a 4-of by any means, but I could definitely see them becoming a value 1-of in a lot of formats. The ability to get these lands from fetches and the landcyclers means that there always there when you need them to be. Could even improve brainstorm in legacy in some fringe cases. You brainstorm like normal, put away your crap, fetch, get this land, and now you get to see what the top card of your deck is. Giving you effectively 5 looks at a card you need rather than 4.
My thoughts are that these could be useful for 2 colour strategies in modern or legacy. There are a lot of 3+colour decks at the moment that will EoT fetch a triome when they dont need the mana (as you mention in the video). I think it could be a useful additional effect of these lands allowing a 2 colour strategy to have the right colours whilst also setting up their draws on an early turn where they dont have spell to cast. I havent been playing enough of these formats to really know though so I might be wrong.
These seem legit. As a commander player, getting a little extra value here and there is sick. Commander has a lot of decks that enjoy having cards in graveyard. I have about 6 decks that need at least 3 of these.
9 місяців тому+1
I'm glad they added a new dual typed land for orzhof, as all color combinations are not equal. There only were three, if we exclude the original dual lands until now.
I think you're right that these will do well. They may not have quite the same mana flexibility as the Triome lands or be as fast as shock lands, but the ability to surveil on a fetchable land can't be underestimated, especially in 60 card formats. I don't know if they'll see as much play in commander though. Looking at EDH Rec, each Temple is seen in 13% to 18% of decks they can go in. A lot of those are likely because the Temple lands came in a precon, so we probably won't see these new ones too often. Personally, I'll be replacing any Temples I have with these. I'm glad they went with non-specific names this time for lands so they can more easily reprint them in the future.
Surveil being worth upshifting these all the way to rare is kind of a bummer considering we got fetchable commons not too long ago, but they look decent. Decks that love them will really love them and they'll be the odd-fixing piece in decks that care more about open mana every turn.
In my opinion the ones with forest typing and plains typing will see play but the rest will see much more limited play, if they stay cheap they will be a fantastic budget option and will be a fine include for precons or if you are building a deck and happen to have them.
I think the better comparison is the bicycle lands. they are dual typed too. way of putting things in the bin with flashback, grave decks, delve, reanimator. Its not a big upside but after the OG duals and shocks there arnt a lot of fetchables. With 3 colors you have. I like its a land that helps cabal coffers en things like mystic sanctuary too. Now if I had to rank the dual lands with land types i'd say: 1: OG 2: Shocks 3: surveil 4: Bicycle land (only allied) 5: Battle lands (only allied) 6: snow duals 7: tapped duals. I think having a full cycle as a 2nd option fetchables in non OG dual land mana bases in commander to fetch is a great job. Especially if you are in enemy colors and didnt have great options after you shock land then get basics. (or things like mystic sanctuary)
I planned to get at least a box of Karlov manor but wasn't sure when i wanted to order it. But being a HUGE fan of custom tokens the prospect of getting a Kenobi Orc Army token for my Sauron deck was more than enough to put in an order.
Come into play Tap only land with just one small ability, I don't think it'll be that expensive. Triomes, give you 3 basic land type and cycling. The deck required to have something to make those land a better choice than conditioned tap land, such as the Surveil deck or Trigger Landfall+Graveyard deck. I think it's an ok card not that crazy good. I'm really curious that will it be that of a broken if Wotc actually print Dual land that not come into play tap and have maybe small down side like shockland. In EDH, there's Battlebond land and they aren';t that broken. Too bad they can't just reprint normal Dual land.
Surveil lands are SO good in graveyard decks, since fetching one potentially puts 2 cards in the graveyard. Plus, in the early game as a whole in magic, ive fetched shocklands in the first couple turns and just let them enter the battlefield tapped. Run both and you can keep the versatility of being able to fetch it out and shock, or switch to the surveil land, enter it tapped like you were going to, and get a draw filter
I agree that these essentially supersede the Temple (tapped scryland) cycle. They are typed, meaning you can fetch them and they count for land type synergies, and surveil is arguably better than scry in a considerable portion of decks.
I like them because they're powerful enough to touch a lot of different areas of different formats without being broken Quintorius is going to play it because they solve so many problems, commander players are going to play it because they're already playing every other etb tapped land anyways, domain in every format can use it, etc etc.
These seem solid for fringe constructed and DEFINITELY Commander. I agree on 1-2 copies in decks with fetches for when you wanna get a bit extra value.
Haven't watched yet, but I think they'll be selectively good in commander. Decks like Sefris, and other reanimated builds love the surveillance, but if you're not running fetches anyway, they don't really do enough.
In terms of fetchable always-tapped duals, these are definitely an improvement over the Bicycle lands from Amonkhet which see pretty much zero play. I guess it's a case of whether the Surveil is enough of an upside over a third colour of mana for the decks that play Triomes, and if its worth the opportunity cost for 2 colour decks to risk a tap land in their opening hand Personally I don't see them having much impact on mana bases for modern and timeless, maybe swapping a single shock for a Surveil land in slower decks. If there's ever a deck that cares about Surveil in a combo sense, like surveiling 1 starts an infinite loop or something, then I expect these will be a slam dunk there
I do believe we may be getting the fetch lands again in standard. This time the original zendikar 5. Kind of like how khans standard had the battle for zendikar lands except the surveil lands are more geared towards descend. The fetch lands would push descend more as well
They seem fine. Better than a scry land. I'll probably run a few in some of my decks that synergize with the surveil or really want another fetch target.
Being able to grab it off of Farseek or Nature's Lore if I'm not planning to play any lands this turn, or as extra valid targets for a Deep Gnome Terramancer, etc. Having land types make these lands so useful.
I'd probably consider throwing them in an EDH deck to give more fetch options at least. Surveil is a cool trigger to have on a land drop, helps stabilize your next draw.
I'm really hyped about these lands. But I wish hasbro first focust on finishing cycles that only are have done. For example, enemy tango land or cycling land with the 2 types. But I also really like the survil alns they made this set. Just feel the other one also should be made at some point.
I think tapland typed would be pretty alright on their own if for no other reason than budget, but surveil does a lot of work to fill up the gap, especially with how much fetch/ramp enters tapped anyway outside of super high power formats. I think they'll be an acceptable 1-of in Standard but I think for Commander these are a good step up from Temples.
I currently am only playing Explorer on Arena so being able to fetch these doesn't excite me too much. But I can see maybe a 1 or 2 of in certain decks. Lands coming in tapped hurts if you are trying to stay on curve. And of course they are great for Commander.
And Brawl, because I suspect WotC is going to put a lot of eggs into Arena's singleton format. Mostly because they mentioned how they're working towards 4p in-client by the end of next year despite Arena having zero mind towards 3+ players when it was rushed out the door.
Bordering on strictly better than temples, so they'll likely replace temples in decks that run them, and then also decks in enough colors that are also desperate to fill the graveyard, but entering tapped definitely puts an upper bound on them.
As far as edh goes, if you consider sultan, abzan and esper have gy decks, most of them are good. If you extend it to mardu, jund and grixis, it's a stretch, they are all good. Good means that fetches being game pieces and duals being on RL creates slots in decks for optimal mana bases. Taplands suck, but you can roll with up to half a dozen on a casual deck. There is a slot for them. Temples are trash, I used tapped snow lands before using them because of the type.
I think having the land types was part of balancing specifically because not every color combo cares about the Graveyard. Pretty much every color and every deck will take a Scry effect if they can. Not every color and deck wants to Surveil and have to risk losing out on a key card that they can't recur but will still be dead if they draw it. I wouldn't say they're exclusively better than Temples either. I will say that I think they'll be important in certain colors and strategies, so they'll all probably see some degree of use, but there are definitely some of these Surveil lands that will see less use than others.
@@PleasantKenobi "In some capacity" is a bit of a misdirect though. There might be some Boros, Simic or Selesnya builds that would hate to deal with a Bojuka Bog or Rest in Peace or whatever else... but we all know those would be outliers and edge cases at best. That's like saying "But white has counter magic!", and while cards like Mana Tithe, Dawn Charm, Equinox, Illumination, Lapse of Certainty, etc. exist... the full list is maybe a dozen cards out of thousands, a tiny percentage that could only apply in a miniscule number of cases. Same logic applies to both. Not every deck is going to care to Surveil, and in some colors, won't even want to. Every deck likes a well timed Scry though, for sure.
Surveil doesn't let you put the card on the bottom of your library, so there is slight differences between Temples and these new ones. However overall I agree the Temples are effectively power crept out of the formats now. The enemy colour versions are certainly more important than ally colour especially in Commander, mostly because Wotc never finished the cycling or tango lands so in certain combinations you were pretty shit out of luck.
Oh these are rare!? Dang I don't know why I thought they were an uncommon way to fix in limited or something but I guess surveil is fine and will have a home somewhere. I was almost looking to see if I could play them in pauper before I pulled up the images
I love these and am super excited for them. I love the temples though so i guess that shouldnt be suprising. I know the temples arent strong, but in my opinion they always been the best of the "bad" duals. These now trump them for sure
If the dmu and kaldheim uncommon ones with land types are good, then these are just basically that plus a scry land put together. I personally think fetches are unnecessary outside landfall decks or 4/5 color decks, but land types alone count towards other cards beyond fetch lands.
I think these are great tbh, not broken, just the best lands of this type they've made. Unlike the cycling lands these give you value always with the surveil, and unlike the temple scry lands, these have basic types that makes them fetchable, no reason not to play them really
You can tell with these lands that they were designed before Standard was extended and it wasn’t known that the New Capena lands would still be legal in Standard
Pretty much any typed lands are worth at least considering for commander. They probably aren't good enough for modern, but they might be alright in Pioneer.
In commander I think these are great. I think I like them better than triomes in a broad sense. I wouldn't call them better than them per say. But when fetching for a tapped land or ramping into a tapped land would rather get these than triomes.
I look forward to my opponent doing something seemingly innocuous like fetching a triome with white on turn 1 then playing one of these "bad" lands turn 2 just for them to Leyline Binding my best thing at instant speed for one mana
If rotation happened when it was supposed to, some of them would have certainly seen play immediately in standard, at least in control and domain. WIth triomes still in... not so sure. I do think they are mostly better than the temples and those were played, so they should eventually be fine at least in standard. Some type of decks in formats with fetches MIGHT want a 1-of of some of them as a fetchable EOT dual that does something actually useful. But for sure most color pairs will never need this.
These won't replace shocks as a budget option due to the fact that they come into play tapped. That makes them subpar, but I'm sure there are GY strategies that can use the surveil ability.
Enemy decks are always hungry for more typed duals, as they have no Tangos and no Bicycles (Prairie Stream and Irrigated Farmland have no Simic versions). Playing a 1-of tapland for an end step fetch has always been useful, as keeping untapped duals in your deck Is valuable. Before triomes and the typed pure taplands of Kaldheim and DMU, highlander The Rock decks would run fucking Murmuring Bosk despite not having any Treefolk, just to have a fetchable dual beyond Bayou and Overgrown Tomb
borderless cards look so much better they should make all the cards like that, but I guess they can't sell them at a marked up price then even though I assume they use the exact same ink and paper quality on the same printer and packaged the exact same way
I NEED fetchable bounce lands. That would allow Commander players to lower their land count to fit in a couple extra pet cards they would otherwise never get to play...
These are great because they're fetchable... only issue with vid im having is you said they're the first new fecthable duals in 19 years... or at least i think thats what you said??.... but what about the fetchable snow lands from Kaldheim? they were duals. they come in tapped. is it because these are the Rare land cycle for the new set, like the temples from back when?
Im very excited about this land cycle for my ravnica cube. for constructed yeah they seem decent, i am curious to see how popular they become / what their prices come out to be
Play one or two in any deck that likes to interact during opponents' turns. If you don't need to do any thing then grab one of these and try to smooth ya draw. Sounds fine.
Maybe 1 or 2 if im in a deck that could benefit from multiple fetches.. maaaybe. Surveil is okay and maybe in some decks wanting something like delirium or delve they could see some play but still ... comes into play tapped.
Everything is playable, the question is: In which format? Where is the place for surveil lands? We discount commander, because everything is playable in commander, even Teferi's Isle and Island of Wak-Wak. So whats left? Standard? Sure, why not. If those are the best lands avaible after a rotation, yes. Pioneer? Sure, the Cycle Duals are playable in Pioneer, so why not the surveil duals? Modern? Arhm ... no. Maybe a very specific deck with a veeery specfic setup to build a combo chain with a surveil land. But in general - no. Legacy/Vintage? Arhm ... no. Thats a world where "good lands" are original duals, Wasteland, Sinkhole and Bazaar of Baghdad (Which is a surveil land on steroids with a machinegun in a Space Marine power armor and 100 billion dollars on its bank account... If the surveil land is a shy 16 year old boy kissing a girl, then Bazaar of Baghdad is Ryan Gosling having a threesome with Scarlett Johansson and Margot Robbie)
Surveillance is better than scry. So they’re at least temple strict upgrades. I say that because if scry were better than surveil they’d be obvious upgrades but temples could be better in possible cases.
That's what I'm trying to highlight to people, but reading through these comments it feels like half the responses only came here to comment, and not actually watch or respond to the video. :|
I saw surveil lands and was not super impressed. Then I actually looked at one and realized they were typed. Now they're exciting
Literally exactly how I reacted when I first saw them lmao. "Oh so they're basically temples but even less decks will want them? Wait, they're typed? OH."
surveil > scry tho @@jamesfilyawDigginGabe
So what's so great about typed dual lands? I've been playing for about a year now and can't think of any use for them aside for a Nature's Lore (or equivalent) fetch for a forest type, High Tide synergy with islands, or something like Anger. Shocks, at least, could enter untapped, and the triome set from New Capenna are triomes (even though they enter tapped too).
Tl;dr, why are land types so important?
@@Hypervolterox Cards that tutor lands sometimes do it by the land type, so a land being multiple types makes it easier to tutor.
@@Hypervolterox Aside from tutoring, there are a lot of decent synergies that count land typings. Cabal Coffers, Blanchwood Armor, and Flow of Knowledge, to name a few, but it's really the tutoring that makes it so good. As game length decreases, so too does your landcount, and fetchlands start to act as doubles of each of the lands in your deck with typings, making your deck a lot more consistent in any format.
In golgari you can set up the surveil trigger with a worldly tutor for an extra entomb. Might not be super exciting, but as a reanimator player I love that kind of stuff.
This was the first thought I had looking at these lands
I was thinking putting it in my Golgari Dredge decks to be one more unique land for Field of the Dead, as well as being able to remove one more basic for more reliable Hermit Druid activations.
I play a gravetide Brawl deck, a Historic Surveil deck, and Golgari explore. All three will likely love these cards.
I almost cut underground mortuary from my Dina soulsteeper cEDH build until I found this interaction with vampiric/worldly, and it's been part of my strategy ever since.
It’s essentially a powercrept scry land which isn’t necessarily bad since the scry lands don’t see much play. It also is another budget friendly option compared to shock lands but has almost the same amount of utility as said with abilities that fetch so I think it’s good for the game even though it’s not the flashiest addition
They're just another series of commander cards with temporary relevance for standard. Which for standard & pioneer, they're just scrylands as there's no way to fetch.
They're 100% irrelevant for modern
@@ammonaustin9081 Meta shaping no, but also not irrelevant. They're easily slotted in literally anything that wants to interact with the graveyard.
@@Zevox144
The only meta deck looking at these is Murktide. And most Murktide players have came to the conclusion that the lose of tempo isn't worth the opportunity to surviel with how tight their land base already is.
It's moreso being compared to horizon lands
@@Zevox144 "Easily"??? Comes into play tapped is the most taxing downside a land can have (next to "sacrifice another land").
Landcycling(1)
I took one look at these and said "damn, the temples got an upgrade"
Two upgrades 😂
Without watching the vid (I will) to influence me, I think these will shine Q1 2025 in Standard when Triomes rotate out and things may or may not slow down a bit. They will be great in 2 pair control decks, and may even replace Triomes in Domain - Spelunking can replace Stomper.
Spelunking is so bad. Such a dead card
@@TheBrothers759caves deck disagrees
It seems great in two-colored decks. It’s a common play in three plus color decks to hold a fetch land then, if OP doesn’t do anything you need to respond to, grab a triome or drop a shock in tapped. I could see decks, maybe Murktide, that wouldn’t mind one copy to grab off the first fetch for that extra surveil up front
As somebody who puts graveyard recursion of some sort in every commander deck I own, this immediately grabs my attention.
Many of my EDH decks have the common "enters tapped" duals specifically for fetching when I don't need the mana, so these are strict upgrades in those scenarios. Especially in my more-graveyard focused decks so I can just psuedo-Entomb/mill my own cards a just teensy bit faster.
I think most decks with fetchlands with run exactly one of these (at least in Modern.) The ability to fetch EOT and filter your next draw is going to come up quite a bit, I think.
I'm pretty stoked about running these as one-offs to be able to fetch them
It depends on the colors: some don't care at all of graveyard, other pairs do love them. I expect golgari, rakdos and dimir ones to spike, while simic, bros and probably selesnya to be a bit low.
Sadly, they occupy a rare slot
Orzov would like Surveil
Orzov would like Surveil
Orzov would like Surveil
They do NOT occupy the rare slot
@@evaneverett4198 how? either they are rare, they occupy the land slot, or i do need to change glasses
I think just being fetchable will have them see some play here and there. I'm not sure if I personally will outside of my Anikthea deck that I need more self mill but couldn't settle on cuts.
I cant wait for domain to have a fetchable dual land that ALSO filters or puts their reanimation target in graveyard. They seem to be doing everything to avoid a rotation except a rotation now.
I often run a single ETB tapped fetchable dual in my EDH decks. Generally with more colors thats a triome but with less colors I still usually run one of the common ones. I think that this is a fine step up over running the already ETB tapped lands but I also don't think its a crazy step up.
They're a fusion of dominaria united's fetchable uncommon lands and a twist on the theros temples, theater is a definite upgrade from the fetchable snow land in my Prosper deck, strictly because the former will do more for my deck than the latter is doing.
These seem like these will be good.
As you pointed out, even though the Theros lands aren't typed they are still played as a 1 or 2 of in a lot of decks in non-commander formats. The fact that these are typed means that you just get that scry/surveil effect when you need it, rather than when you draw it. I don't think they'll be a 4-of by any means, but I could definitely see them becoming a value 1-of in a lot of formats. The ability to get these lands from fetches and the landcyclers means that there always there when you need them to be. Could even improve brainstorm in legacy in some fringe cases. You brainstorm like normal, put away your crap, fetch, get this land, and now you get to see what the top card of your deck is. Giving you effectively 5 looks at a card you need rather than 4.
My thoughts are that these could be useful for 2 colour strategies in modern or legacy. There are a lot of 3+colour decks at the moment that will EoT fetch a triome when they dont need the mana (as you mention in the video). I think it could be a useful additional effect of these lands allowing a 2 colour strategy to have the right colours whilst also setting up their draws on an early turn where they dont have spell to cast. I havent been playing enough of these formats to really know though so I might be wrong.
These seem legit. As a commander player, getting a little extra value here and there is sick. Commander has a lot of decks that enjoy having cards in graveyard. I have about 6 decks that need at least 3 of these.
I'm glad they added a new dual typed land for orzhof, as all color combinations are not equal. There only were three, if we exclude the original dual lands until now.
Its like scry. I always fetch this rather than the dual snow lands. It really change the gameplay of my deck
I think you're right that these will do well. They may not have quite the same mana flexibility as the Triome lands or be as fast as shock lands, but the ability to surveil on a fetchable land can't be underestimated, especially in 60 card formats. I don't know if they'll see as much play in commander though. Looking at EDH Rec, each Temple is seen in 13% to 18% of decks they can go in. A lot of those are likely because the Temple lands came in a precon, so we probably won't see these new ones too often. Personally, I'll be replacing any Temples I have with these.
I'm glad they went with non-specific names this time for lands so they can more easily reprint them in the future.
Surveil being worth upshifting these all the way to rare is kind of a bummer considering we got fetchable commons not too long ago, but they look decent. Decks that love them will really love them and they'll be the odd-fixing piece in decks that care more about open mana every turn.
I mean temples are still rare even though they're generally regarded as pretty cheeks
In my opinion the ones with forest typing and plains typing will see play but the rest will see much more limited play, if they stay cheap they will be a fantastic budget option and will be a fine include for precons or if you are building a deck and happen to have them.
As a budget land, they’re ok. I’ll probably stick them in 2 color commander decks. But yeah, the triomes/dual lands with cycle would be my first pick.
Please call them bicycle and tricycle lands, as is correct.
I think the better comparison is the bicycle lands. they are dual typed too. way of putting things in the bin with flashback, grave decks, delve, reanimator. Its not a big upside but after the OG duals and shocks there arnt a lot of fetchables. With 3 colors you have. I like its a land that helps cabal coffers en things like mystic sanctuary too. Now if I had to rank the dual lands with land types i'd say:
1: OG
2: Shocks
3: surveil
4: Bicycle land (only allied)
5: Battle lands (only allied)
6: snow duals
7: tapped duals.
I think having a full cycle as a 2nd option fetchables in non OG dual land mana bases in commander to fetch is a great job. Especially if you are in enemy colors and didnt have great options after you shock land then get basics. (or things like mystic sanctuary)
I planned to get at least a box of Karlov manor but wasn't sure when i wanted to order it. But being a HUGE fan of custom tokens the prospect of getting a Kenobi Orc Army token for my Sauron deck was more than enough to put in an order.
Come into play Tap only land with just one small ability, I don't think it'll be that expensive.
Triomes, give you 3 basic land type and cycling.
The deck required to have something to make those land a better choice than conditioned tap land, such as the Surveil deck or Trigger Landfall+Graveyard deck.
I think it's an ok card not that crazy good.
I'm really curious that will it be that of a broken if Wotc actually print Dual land that not come into play tap and have maybe small down side like shockland.
In EDH, there's Battlebond land and they aren';t that broken. Too bad they can't just reprint normal Dual land.
I think they're pretty cool and are definitely replacing the 10 Temples in my Tazri, Stalwart Survivor Commander deck!
Surveil lands are SO good in graveyard decks, since fetching one potentially puts 2 cards in the graveyard. Plus, in the early game as a whole in magic, ive fetched shocklands in the first couple turns and just let them enter the battlefield tapped. Run both and you can keep the versatility of being able to fetch it out and shock, or switch to the surveil land, enter it tapped like you were going to, and get a draw filter
You're right on the money my legacy player will only get better as the game develops with more card options
There’s the Foil cycle of cards and the landcyclers to consider as well. You effectively have more duals to work with to assemble a free spell.
I think Kenobi's Wet Feces would 1. Be an instant because of the "wet" part and 2. Wouldn't be described as "pleasant" due to being instant and wet
It'd definitely have infect.
I agree that these essentially supersede the Temple (tapped scryland) cycle. They are typed, meaning you can fetch them and they count for land type synergies, and surveil is arguably better than scry in a considerable portion of decks.
They should do a cycle of exile a card from your hand to have it enter untapped. Still fetchable ofc. I think they could be competitively viable
This is a great idea. Trade off a basic to drop an untapped dual land.
@@dougcarey2233❤😂 this way The Basics aren’t totally worthless anymore! Genius Move!
Eh, missing out on an untapped mana might be worth it to put a card into your graveyars in certain decks, but I'm still iffy on them
Fetchable taplands always outperform other taplands bcs u can time them better.
I like them because they're powerful enough to touch a lot of different areas of different formats without being broken
Quintorius is going to play it because they solve so many problems, commander players are going to play it because they're already playing every other etb tapped land anyways, domain in every format can use it, etc etc.
These seem solid for fringe constructed and DEFINITELY Commander. I agree on 1-2 copies in decks with fetches for when you wanna get a bit extra value.
Your assessment was basically the exact same as mine. These are really good!
Haven't watched yet, but I think they'll be selectively good in commander. Decks like Sefris, and other reanimated builds love the surveillance, but if you're not running fetches anyway, they don't really do enough.
As a Sefris player, I approve.
In terms of fetchable always-tapped duals, these are definitely an improvement over the Bicycle lands from Amonkhet which see pretty much zero play. I guess it's a case of whether the Surveil is enough of an upside over a third colour of mana for the decks that play Triomes, and if its worth the opportunity cost for 2 colour decks to risk a tap land in their opening hand
Personally I don't see them having much impact on mana bases for modern and timeless, maybe swapping a single shock for a Surveil land in slower decks.
If there's ever a deck that cares about Surveil in a combo sense, like surveiling 1 starts an infinite loop or something, then I expect these will be a slam dunk there
I do believe we may be getting the fetch lands again in standard. This time the original zendikar 5. Kind of like how khans standard had the battle for zendikar lands except the surveil lands are more geared towards descend. The fetch lands would push descend more as well
They seem fine. Better than a scry land. I'll probably run a few in some of my decks that synergize with the surveil or really want another fetch target.
at tier competition these lands could only ever see play in very niche and few decks but for casual play these are definitely good enough edh/standard
Being able to grab it off of Farseek or Nature's Lore if I'm not planning to play any lands this turn, or as extra valid targets for a Deep Gnome Terramancer, etc. Having land types make these lands so useful.
You can play a land, and grab this off of Farseek. :)
I'd probably consider throwing them in an EDH deck to give more fetch options at least. Surveil is a cool trigger to have on a land drop, helps stabilize your next draw.
In edh it's basically draw 1.
I wonder how much the shock lands spiked in price after these were revealed?
Fetchable temples (scry) might be playable in modern creativity and cascade decks, ngl. Good thinking for surveil
I'm really hyped about these lands. But I wish hasbro first focust on finishing cycles that only are have done. For example, enemy tango land or cycling land with the 2 types.
But I also really like the survil alns they made this set. Just feel the other one also should be made at some point.
I think tapland typed would be pretty alright on their own if for no other reason than budget, but surveil does a lot of work to fill up the gap, especially with how much fetch/ramp enters tapped anyway outside of super high power formats. I think they'll be an acceptable 1-of in Standard but I think for Commander these are a good step up from Temples.
I currently am only playing Explorer on Arena so being able to fetch these doesn't excite me too much. But I can see maybe a 1 or 2 of in certain decks. Lands coming in tapped hurts if you are trying to stay on curve. And of course they are great for Commander.
And Brawl, because I suspect WotC is going to put a lot of eggs into Arena's singleton format. Mostly because they mentioned how they're working towards 4p in-client by the end of next year despite Arena having zero mind towards 3+ players when it was rushed out the door.
Bordering on strictly better than temples, so they'll likely replace temples in decks that run them, and then also decks in enough colors that are also desperate to fill the graveyard, but entering tapped definitely puts an upper bound on them.
They will definitely see play in any deck I have that uses the graveyard as a resource.
They come into play tapped na I'm good lol... They're good for new players and that's a great thing.
My karametra edh deck always loves when a new searchable dual cycle is printed.
Absolutely solid with her trigger.
As far as edh goes, if you consider sultan, abzan and esper have gy decks, most of them are good. If you extend it to mardu, jund and grixis, it's a stretch, they are all good. Good means that fetches being game pieces and duals being on RL creates slots in decks for optimal mana bases. Taplands suck, but you can roll with up to half a dozen on a casual deck. There is a slot for them.
Temples are trash, I used tapped snow lands before using them because of the type.
I think having the land types was part of balancing specifically because not every color combo cares about the Graveyard. Pretty much every color and every deck will take a Scry effect if they can. Not every color and deck wants to Surveil and have to risk losing out on a key card that they can't recur but will still be dead if they draw it.
I wouldn't say they're exclusively better than Temples either. I will say that I think they'll be important in certain colors and strategies, so they'll all probably see some degree of use, but there are definitely some of these Surveil lands that will see less use than others.
Every colour combo does care about the graveyard in some capacity.
@@PleasantKenobi "In some capacity" is a bit of a misdirect though.
There might be some Boros, Simic or Selesnya builds that would hate to deal with a Bojuka Bog or Rest in Peace or whatever else... but we all know those would be outliers and edge cases at best.
That's like saying "But white has counter magic!", and while cards like Mana Tithe, Dawn Charm, Equinox, Illumination, Lapse of Certainty, etc. exist... the full list is maybe a dozen cards out of thousands, a tiny percentage that could only apply in a miniscule number of cases.
Same logic applies to both. Not every deck is going to care to Surveil, and in some colors, won't even want to. Every deck likes a well timed Scry though, for sure.
Surveil doesn't let you put the card on the bottom of your library, so there is slight differences between Temples and these new ones. However overall I agree the Temples are effectively power crept out of the formats now.
The enemy colour versions are certainly more important than ally colour especially in Commander, mostly because Wotc never finished the cycling or tango lands so in certain combinations you were pretty shit out of luck.
First choice for tapped land if you can't get enough untapped I imagine.
Assuming you don't have a need for the creature ones
Oh these are rare!? Dang I don't know why I thought they were an uncommon way to fix in limited or something but I guess surveil is fine and will have a home somewhere. I was almost looking to see if I could play them in pauper before I pulled up the images
I love these and am super excited for them. I love the temples though so i guess that shouldnt be suprising. I know the temples arent strong, but in my opinion they always been the best of the "bad" duals. These now trump them for sure
basically fetchable temples. survail vs scry is also an upside if you might want stuff in your graveyard.
If the dmu and kaldheim uncommon ones with land types are good, then these are just basically that plus a scry land put together. I personally think fetches are unnecessary outside landfall decks or 4/5 color decks, but land types alone count towards other cards beyond fetch lands.
Honestly I could see them in my Rakdos Griselbrand reanimateder deck. I like them
I think these are great tbh, not broken, just the best lands of this type they've made. Unlike the cycling lands these give you value always with the surveil, and unlike the temple scry lands, these have basic types that makes them fetchable, no reason not to play them really
You can tell with these lands that they were designed before Standard was extended and it wasn’t known that the New Capena lands would still be legal in Standard
Surveil is already a pretty big upgrade to scry, so these are guaranteed to see some fringe play. Fetchable is nice but doesn't shake the world.
Pretty much any typed lands are worth at least considering for commander. They probably aren't good enough for modern, but they might be alright in Pioneer.
In commander I think these are great. I think I like them better than triomes in a broad sense. I wouldn't call them better than them per say. But when fetching for a tapped land or ramping into a tapped land would rather get these than triomes.
Im guessing splunking and farseak are going to shoot up in price. Any searchable land that sets up the graveyard is good
I look forward to my opponent doing something seemingly innocuous like fetching a triome with white on turn 1 then playing one of these "bad" lands turn 2 just for them to Leyline Binding my best thing at instant speed for one mana
Theyll certainly slot in for temples in commander.
If rotation happened when it was supposed to, some of them would have certainly seen play immediately in standard, at least in control and domain. WIth triomes still in... not so sure. I do think they are mostly better than the temples and those were played, so they should eventually be fine at least in standard. Some type of decks in formats with fetches MIGHT want a 1-of of some of them as a fetchable EOT dual that does something actually useful. But for sure most color pairs will never need this.
so there's this card they printed called Spelunking, I just think it's neat!
These won't replace shocks as a budget option due to the fact that they come into play tapped. That makes them subpar, but I'm sure there are GY strategies that can use the surveil ability.
Enemy decks are always hungry for more typed duals, as they have no Tangos and no Bicycles (Prairie Stream and Irrigated Farmland have no Simic versions). Playing a 1-of tapland for an end step fetch has always been useful, as keeping untapped duals in your deck Is valuable. Before triomes and the typed pure taplands of Kaldheim and DMU, highlander The Rock decks would run fucking Murmuring Bosk despite not having any Treefolk, just to have a fetchable dual beyond Bayou and Overgrown Tomb
These are upgraded versions of the Temple cycle. These might be useful in commander, but I doubt they see much play in modern or legacy.
Fetchable Scry Lands are definitely playable. These are marginally better; considerably better in the right deck(s).
borderless cards look so much better they should make all the cards like that, but I guess they can't sell them at a marked up price then even though I assume they use the exact same ink and paper quality on the same printer and packaged the exact same way
Love them in my Timeless Shadow :)
Ohhh these are going in my thalia and gitrog monster deck
Definitely better than Temples. I would hope these show up in precons going forward, if they're not going to put shocks in them.
I NEED fetchable bounce lands. That would allow Commander players to lower their land count to fit in a couple extra pet cards they would otherwise never get to play...
I think they will def see play in commander and maybe splashable in formats outside of standard. Definitely played in standard.
There’s gonna be a deck somewhere that can really take advantage of milling that extra card, but I’m not sure what deck that will be yet
Surveil is potentially an effect worth a tap land depending on the deck: Example is that golgari land is 100% better than an og dual in a gitrog deck.
I wouldn't replace Bayou with it, but I would replace one of my lands for it in Gitrog.
These are great because they're fetchable... only issue with vid im having is you said they're the first new fecthable duals in 19 years... or at least i think thats what you said??.... but what about the fetchable snow lands from Kaldheim? they were duals. they come in tapped. is it because these are the Rare land cycle for the new set, like the temples from back when?
Dredge has at least 10 new toys. Outside of that, replacing dakmpr Salvage in dredge for access to 2 colors over 1 might be worth it
Im very excited about this land cycle for my ravnica cube. for constructed yeah they seem decent, i am curious to see how popular they become / what their prices come out to be
Play one or two in any deck that likes to interact during opponents' turns. If you don't need to do any thing then grab one of these and try to smooth ya draw. Sounds fine.
Exactly.
Could run the ones with black mana in something like Trazyn the Infinite to try and get the combo to grave even faster.
Maybe 1 or 2 if im in a deck that could benefit from multiple fetches.. maaaybe. Surveil is okay and maybe in some decks wanting something like delirium or delve they could see some play but still ... comes into play tapped.
I think youre right, but im also holding out for someone to find some combo with them.
mkm looking really good for pauper and cube
I think they’ll be one ofs in some decks and that’s about it. They seem pretty good with bauble though but not great.
wonder if these will replace the scrylands they keep putting in commander precons
Love how they make new typed duals but have not finished off the other 5 of the bi-cycle and tangos
Surveil 1 is pretty awesome. Fetching to put something in your grave is awesome. Definitely playable unlike scry lands.
Everything is playable, the question is: In which format? Where is the place for surveil lands? We discount commander, because everything is playable in commander, even Teferi's Isle and Island of Wak-Wak. So whats left? Standard? Sure, why not. If those are the best lands avaible after a rotation, yes. Pioneer? Sure, the Cycle Duals are playable in Pioneer, so why not the surveil duals? Modern? Arhm ... no. Maybe a very specific deck with a veeery specfic setup to build a combo chain with a surveil land. But in general - no. Legacy/Vintage? Arhm ... no. Thats a world where "good lands" are original duals, Wasteland, Sinkhole and Bazaar of Baghdad (Which is a surveil land on steroids with a machinegun in a Space Marine power armor and 100 billion dollars on its bank account... If the surveil land is a shy 16 year old boy kissing a girl, then Bazaar of Baghdad is Ryan Gosling having a threesome with Scarlett Johansson and Margot Robbie)
Surveillance is better than scry. So they’re at least temple strict upgrades.
I say that because if scry were better than surveil they’d be obvious upgrades but temples could be better in possible cases.
The temple cycle from theros are playable. These are largely just power crept versions of that cycle so of course they're playable.
That's what I'm trying to highlight to people, but reading through these comments it feels like half the responses only came here to comment, and not actually watch or respond to the video. :|