I felt the same way about Teotihuacan, and after my second play was pretty sure I didn't like the game. My husband loved it, though, so I kept playing, and after 5 plays I think Teo is brilliant. I actually found Tabannusi much easier to understand, and I can definitely see it growing in my estimation with more experience. But these games are not meant to be internalized and mastered after one or two plays (unlike lots of more medium-weight Euros, which have an easier entry point but a lower skill ceiling.) They are always going to suffer a bit from reviewers who have to constantly move on to a new game, as they require a little more investment than you can probably give it.
There's definitely truth to that, and because of that I did let this one stew longer than usual. This one got plenty of plays, at all the player counts, with different groups. The last game I had was the most fun yet, but my estimation of it still only increased so little. All the issues I pointed out were still there. Other complex games can click better with the number of plays I gave Tabannusi, so I review based on my experiences as that's all I can base it on. I appreciate you watching.
I've only played this two times right now, but I'm very excited to explore this game more. Teotihuacan has been in my top 5 games for some time, but right now I want to play this one more. I find it pretty easy to teach, but I agree it takes some time for people to learn all the small rules when constructing buildings.
When I read the rule book to Tawantinsuyu, I was chuckling all the time at the tiny little rules and exceptions and special cases. Happily, though, after playing it a couple of times, I found I really enjoyed it. Not sure if Tabannusi would be the same. Tzolkin I found a little soulless. But Teotihuacan is an absolute winner. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try Tabannusi some time.
Thx for the review, we particulary love this game at home, didn't feel the complexity as much. And the overall expérience very positive, and fresh. 10, a keeper.
In the old Catan game Elasund you have almost the same system, laying out building permits that may later be built on. But there at least one of the permits must be yours.
Valid statement Chris - I resonate with you now, especially having played and taught you so many heavy euros! I remember you sharing a similar idea regarding Vital Lacerda titles, although his mechanisms are more deeply integrated with theme, making it a bit easier to remember. Would you remark that Tabbanusi is of the same rules "width" than a Lacerda?
Another thing that is really unique and feels strange in this game is the progression pace and endgame; it has a fixed number of rounds (five, with gold bar awarded every time to the one triggering the end of round), but first round lasts for a very long time until one of the boats gets empty. then you score that area... ...But at that point, many of the boats will be close to empty, so you're going to score again and again in different areas in the following couple of turns, so adding this to the intricacy of the way you move up your markers on the 3 tracks, it felt really tough to optimize the timing of actions and their impact in terms of scoring, and if you aim at going to the boats with more dice to make it last longer, you may have nothing interesting to do there anyway... Don't know if it gets easier to maneuver around after more plays ; But it feels like a musical composition with a very lengthy intro and first theme A, then theme B and C get played in a rush at super high tempo, then a little calmer during part II and theme D coming while you manage to regroup and take a breath, then E right after without warning and in the coda you hear A B C D E all played together in cacophony, boom done. Applause. No idea what got me there or how I feel about it!
We felt very similarly to each other. We both played it a few times months ago but wanted more time to stew on it. I played it more recently without her and we decided it wasn't worth the effort to play it again to refresh her on it, so I reviewed it myself. It's a very smart design, but as the kids say, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
While I appreciate the effort you put in doing this review, I think you might not be the target audiance for this kind of heavy games. I remember hearing Tom saying that usually it's the person that likes a game the most that reviews it, well it's time to hire a heavy gamer.
@@JimmySquiky You seem to already know what you think about the game so go ahead and enjoy playing it! Chris isn't going to show up at your house and flip the table over or anything. Even among categories like "heavy gamer" not everyone is going to agree.
I felt the same way about Teotihuacan, and after my second play was pretty sure I didn't like the game. My husband loved it, though, so I kept playing, and after 5 plays I think Teo is brilliant. I actually found Tabannusi much easier to understand, and I can definitely see it growing in my estimation with more experience. But these games are not meant to be internalized and mastered after one or two plays (unlike lots of more medium-weight Euros, which have an easier entry point but a lower skill ceiling.) They are always going to suffer a bit from reviewers who have to constantly move on to a new game, as they require a little more investment than you can probably give it.
There's definitely truth to that, and because of that I did let this one stew longer than usual. This one got plenty of plays, at all the player counts, with different groups. The last game I had was the most fun yet, but my estimation of it still only increased so little. All the issues I pointed out were still there. Other complex games can click better with the number of plays I gave Tabannusi, so I review based on my experiences as that's all I can base it on. I appreciate you watching.
I've only played this two times right now, but I'm very excited to explore this game more. Teotihuacan has been in my top 5 games for some time, but right now I want to play this one more. I find it pretty easy to teach, but I agree it takes some time for people to learn all the small rules when constructing buildings.
I’m looking forward to trying this one out. Great review!
I think I'll wait for 'T'ardis, the phonebooth of time'
Great review Chris!
When I read the rule book to Tawantinsuyu, I was chuckling all the time at the tiny little rules and exceptions and special cases. Happily, though, after playing it a couple of times, I found I really enjoyed it. Not sure if Tabannusi would be the same. Tzolkin I found a little soulless. But Teotihuacan is an absolute winner. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try Tabannusi some time.
I consider tawantisuyu and tabannusi in the same Flavour familly, two games i love.
Thx for the review, we particulary love this game at home, didn't feel the complexity as much. And the overall expérience very positive, and fresh. 10, a keeper.
Agreed. Loved the interaction but didn’t feel this is as heavy as the others!
In the old Catan game Elasund you have almost the same system, laying out building permits that may later be built on. But there at least one of the permits must be yours.
Valid statement Chris - I resonate with you now, especially having played and taught you so many heavy euros!
I remember you sharing a similar idea regarding Vital Lacerda titles, although his mechanisms are more deeply integrated with theme, making it a bit easier to remember.
Would you remark that Tabbanusi is of the same rules "width" than a Lacerda?
Another thing that is really unique and feels strange in this game is the progression pace and endgame; it has a fixed number of rounds (five, with gold bar awarded every time to the one triggering the end of round), but first round lasts for a very long time until one of the boats gets empty. then you score that area...
...But at that point, many of the boats will be close to empty, so you're going to score again and again in different areas in the following couple of turns, so adding this to the intricacy of the way you move up your markers on the 3 tracks, it felt really tough to optimize the timing of actions and their impact in terms of scoring, and if you aim at going to the boats with more dice to make it last longer, you may have nothing interesting to do there anyway...
Don't know if it gets easier to maneuver around after more plays ; But it feels like a musical composition with a very lengthy intro and first theme A, then theme B and C get played in a rush at super high tempo, then a little calmer during part II and theme D coming while you manage to regroup and take a breath, then E right after without warning and in the coda you hear A B C D E all played together in cacophony, boom done. Applause. No idea what got me there or how I feel about it!
"symbiology soup" is poetry. Thanks for the great review, Chris.
Thanks Chris. Appreciate the insight.
The rules overhead in heavy games are only a problem when you regularly play new games and dont keep playing that one heavy game.
From Tzolk'in to this, I feel like every game in the T series is more complex and less elegant than the previous one.
What did Wendy think about the game?
We felt very similarly to each other. We both played it a few times months ago but wanted more time to stew on it. I played it more recently without her and we decided it wasn't worth the effort to play it again to refresh her on it, so I reviewed it myself. It's a very smart design, but as the kids say, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
While I appreciate the effort you put in doing this review, I think you might not be the target audiance for this kind of heavy games. I remember hearing Tom saying that usually it's the person that likes a game the most that reviews it, well it's time to hire a heavy gamer.
To be clear, Chris IS a heavy gamer. Please don't try to discredit him just because he doesn't have the same opinion of a game you do.
@@thedicetower I don't love the game, I rated it an 8 but to give it a 6 while it got 4th place at the award "Le diamant d'or" is harsh.
@@JimmySquiky Meh, the day we let awards affect our ratings is the day I close up shop.
@@JimmySquiky You seem to already know what you think about the game so go ahead and enjoy playing it! Chris isn't going to show up at your house and flip the table over or anything. Even among categories like "heavy gamer" not everyone is going to agree.
@@thedicetower He is and is good at it. Just need a wargame/historical reviewer 😉😘
nope