The fact that Snake Discovery is open about their mistakes, take accountability and are willing to learn from the mistakes is such a breath of fresh air with exotic animal channels. You folks are honestly one of the only animal channels I trust to not secretly be shady af behind the scenes, and it’s BECAUSE of things like this.
They have been breeding snakes for as long as I can remember them documenting it. They did just a couple of North American species at first and have moved onto other species progressively.
@celticwolf Unfortunately when you breed reptiles on a large scale you can't actually give them the big enclosures they need because you would simply not be able to fit enough animals in one space. I think Snake discovery is doing everything right, and the smallish bin enclosures are still way better than most breeders
As soon as I saw the reduced pattern through the egg goop I was like "oh no that's a spider for sure 😬" I'm glad you guys recognize the problems associated with this morph and I'd love a full video on the topic for education purposes. Many people buy spider morphs without being aware of the struggles those snakes can have.
I view the spider morph in the same way I view the short snout on dogs. Sure, it's cool/cute, but it's not worth the suffering to the animal. And you can "breed the bad effects out" but you have to go through countless sick babies before you get to the healthy one... it's not worth the cost just for a cool/cute looking animal.
@@jadecoolness101 You can't "breed the bad effects out", it's tied to the allele that causes the morph. Some individuals will have a better or worse wobble, often depending on their environment, but it can always get better or worse at any time. Spider should be allowed to die out as s morph and the remaining spiders should be given to loving homes that won't breed them.
@@vulturesalesman technically you likely can because crosscutting alleles, but the fact is... too many sick babies would be made along the way. Spider can never be ethical because it inherently requires sick babies be made.
@@jadecoolness101 a neurological disorder is very different to a squashed face. especially since squashed faced dogs can actually be well bred unlike the spider morph.
I remember how nervous Emily was talking about the spider morph when the channel was still relatively new, and seeing the confidence in front of camera compare when it comes to speaking of difficult topics like these is really nice. Thanks to the openness and allowing yourself to show others that you make mistakes, too, you guys are probably the only channel I trust when it comes to snakes and exotic pets like such. Thanks for the vid!
Please please PLEASE do a video on the ball python morphs with neuro issues. Not just spiders! There's some combinations that have wobble with one alele and some that are straight deadly with two. And since balls are so overwhelmingly common, it's super important to educate people interested in getting a ball python what genes should not be perpetuated by breeding or even creating demand.
I have a normal banana that might have a wobble. He does flip his head around sometimes. And is slow to right his head when I gently flip him over (I do it to test for Neuro issues)
This. It's hard to do research on bp neuro issues because all the videos are about either spiders or people talking about the pros of breeding the morph with issues. For example when I was trying to do research on Champagne to cater for my latest adoption I just kept finding videos on "everything awesome about breeding the champagne morph" so had to settle with watching spider videos and hope the same information applies
When I first got into snakes and brought home my first buddy, I always thought "uh spider morph is dominant, so it has to always show". My snake is a BEL so completely white. I thought she didn't have spider gene and the guy I bought her from was really sketchy and told me she was all healthy (exotic animals are not common in my country so the sellers are almost always sketchy) I was devestated when I saw how wobbly she was because I am completely against buying or breeding an animal knowing it will have a health issue. I was so mad at myself for giving money to someone who profits off these poor babies who will live all their lives, not knowing what is up and down right or left, just always dizzy. Anyways it happened, and I had to educate myself more and to remind myself to be more cautious of exotic animal sellers here. I love my baby girl tho its been years now and as always, she is super sweet happy and healthy aside from this issue.
What I don't understand is why those breeders put so much effort into breeding these Spiders when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
I kind of love that I just found out that the channel which brought me to yours (clint's) has a long video on why he has no problem breeding these animals all born with a disability while you have a video on how sorry you are to have screwed up and *accidentally* created two. Kind of cemented your place as overwhelmingly the most ethical reptile channel I've found on here.
I do like that he's trying to improve it, and it might actually be due to ear malformations instead, from what I've heard... But I do personally agree that purposefully breeding smthn with known health issues isn't fair to the animal that has no say in being here.
@@fullmoonshadow6967 If you're talking about Brachy breeds, they're totally healthy if bred correctly. The thing that actually causes the breathing issues is BOAS which is a deformity of the nasal passage ways. This can be tested for and ethical breeders do NOT breed any dog with a positive BOAS score. The issue is that people want these dogs for cheap and they want them quickly so they go to BYB and puppy mills and get their puppies there. Those breeders will not test for BOAS and are just trying to make profit. Ethically bred brachy breeds are just as healthy and capable as any other breed. Many even do sports such as agility or dock diving.
I actually own a bumblebee python and we didn’t know about the morph’s issues until we did some more research after noticing his little wobble. He’s about a year old now, and we were mostly able to reduce the issue by helping him as best we could as a baby (and he probably doesn’t have the issue as badly as other snakes may), but I really am disturbed that breeders still choose to breed spider morphs with the issues that can have. I realized where the video was going once you’d shown the bumblebee in your clutch. Accidents happen, but thank you both for talking about the issue to raise more awareness!
I own a spider mohave he has a pretty noticable wobble but he eats great and explore and look as happy as like my regular ball python. He wobbles mostly when he gets excited (food) or scared (me moving something or à drop of water touching him randomly) I dont think they should be bred but i think they can live à very good life!
My friend's girl Bea doesn't seem to have a wobble, and she's about four. I don't know if he got lucky or what, because she doesn't appear to have issues, or if she does, they're not particularly noticeable.
I highly recommend GoHerping’s video on spider ball pythons, a lot of people try to make that argument that “oh well they’re not all that bad so it’s fine to breed them” but I don’t think it’s fair to the animals for us to keep rolling those dice with their health and well-being.
Thank you for talking about the spider morphs. While beautiful and they can live a happy and healthy life, I still cannot see why some people defend them. If we can breed animals in a way that we guarantee that the offspring doesn't have a major health condition, we absolutely should do so.
Some of them can live normal lives, but I've seen videos of them where the neurological effects are REALLY bad and they basically have to be forcefed because they can't strike/latch on properly on their own to their food. They bang around in their enclosures and smash their heads into things... it's awful. I'm completely against the breeding of that morph.
Its really hard to tell how many spiders function just fine and how many are severely affected because breeders are not very transparent about it. Also there’s little info on whether it’s even possible to breed the wobble out of spiders.
@@Palitato From what I've seen, most spider's don't have a pronounced wobble, or at least one that negatively affects their ability to live a healthy and good life. From what I've seen, most of the spiders that have really bad wobbles were either abused/lived in poor conditions or the result of a spider to "wobble complex" genes(champagne, woma, spotnose). Thats not to say that some aren't born with a really bad wobble, but from what I've noticed they aren't too common. That said, I would never buy or breed spider because there is that greater possibility genetically. I'm not in favor of "banning" the breeding of the morph, but I am for full breeder transparency on the degree to which the wobble is and the euthanization of snakes with really bad wobbles.
Lots of people don't know that ALL spiders have the wobble syndrome even if they're not corkscrewing all over the place and it affects everything from their balance and righting reflex to muscle tone and development. And it can get worse at any point in the animal's life. I'm a ball python breeder and I do not believe it's ethical to intentionally produce them because of this, so I don't have any neuro complex morphs. A lot of people still also claim it is possible to breed the wobble out of the gene but it is not, whatever biological process causes the phenotype is the same thing that causes the wobble syndrome so it is impossible to separate the two - if an animal has spider, it also has wobble syndrome and they are inseparable. People have been trying for decades and there's been no progress at all.
Would love to see a video discussing the spider ball morph more! They’re gorgeous but I agree that our visual enjoyment alone doesn’t justify these snakes having lifelong neurological issues :( There are quite a few large reptile UA-camrs who are pro-spider so I’d like to see you guys offer some counterpoints! Also great since your channel seems to attract lots of first-time keepers and this could help them make better educated purchasing decisions!
When I got my first snake I got a ball python but unfortunately I got a spider and didn’t even know there was a problem about them and my mom also got a bp (super enchi lemonblast) and she wants to breed them so when we do we wont be able to hold back spiders and make sure we tell the buyer about the spider wobble. I don’t want to breed them but my mom says it would be fine :(
@@Cedar_and_pals Your mom needs to do a LOT more research. Before approaching the spider ethics, I'd look at odds from the pairing to see if it's even likely to get morphs worth the effort financially. And look at the costs of raising them to adulthood if you can't find buyers. Your morphs are much fancier, but this is how I talked my husband out of breeding our normal adult male BP who has stunted growth from the negligent conditions we rescued him from.
The fact that she knew the mistake that she made, and didn't keep quiet about it. Made me feel like she is a great person to get snakes from, she knows where she got them from, she knows what breeds they are because she breeds them, AND she explains what they do behind the scenes. God bless you both 🙏🏻 Thanks for being the best people you guys can be💖❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
I don't understand why they're breeding snakes to begin with. Aren't they completely swamped with rescues? Every reptile channel I've seen is over whelmed with rescues..
Despite the little spider accident I'm glad to see all babies are ok! I was worried a bit that the two spiderlings were stillborns but I had a sigh of relief when they moved. It's sad that they will probably have some degree of wobble, but I'm sure they'll have wonderful lives with you, or with whoever you adopt them out to!
I never condone knowingly breeding an animal that would have complications just for the aesthetic, but knowing you guys have the animals' best interests in mind and that they almost certainly wont be bred in the future, I can safely say I love that darker baby spider. Definitely my favourite of the clutch.
@@seofra8252 unfortunately we can't be 100% certain their future owners won't breed them if these guys don't keep them. I trust their vetting process but I'm always cynical about these things I'll admit
@@undead_queer i’ve heard them say in past videos they only sell snakes with minor tail kinks/blemishes to non breeders, so i do believe they vet buyers
They definitely will have the neuro issue. It just depends on severity between animals. Some can have it really bad like topsyy yurvy and some may not show issues at all. But the carry it nonetheless. ❤
I now own a banana spider-morph and a banana pastel lemon-splash because of this channel. No one wanted the spider morph because of it's wobbly head, and I ended up adopting him to give him a good life. I adore your channel and have used it as a base to raise my little babies. I love them so much and thank you for all your help and advice!
that's so awesome of you. the spider morph is so sad. I've seen them at a pet store but I sadly don't have room for them. people used to walk by one and make faces at him. ❤ props to you for giving them an amazing life❤❤❤
i'm glad that only two of the babies are affected by this, and i respect you for acknowledging your mistake and being transparent about how this happened. here's hoping the little ones are healthy and not too wobbly! 🤞🏻🐍💕
I think a video not only about Spider morphs for ball pythons, but about any and all morphs in the reptile pet trade that can cause problematic health issues or genetics would be seriously helpful! For newbie and experienced reptile owners alike! I dont own snakes myself yet, but for a long while Spider was one of my favorite morphs because i loved the amazing web-like pattern! It wasnt until i watched some of the amazing educational videos from educators similar to Snake Discovery that i learned about the problems that come with Spider morphs. Id never want to willingly encourage the breeding of animals who may be unable to have a fullfilling, happy long life just because i like their aesthetic. Im sure there are perfectly happy, healthy, wibbly wobbly Spiders out there. But the risks seem real! And as someone who wants to, but hasnt yet picked out the perfect noodle friend yet, id greatly appreciate learning about other morphs in other species and reptiles that may cause issues. For me, my pet, and my wallet too. Vet's arent cheap!
I can tell you about one moprh that has a higher risk of issues, but doesn't always produce any. It's the Palmetto morph in corn snakes, basically blue eyed leucistic but with little freckles of color. There tends to be a higher risk of snakes having "bug eyes" aka the eyes bulge out of the skull a bit too much. So, you need a reputable breeder who doesn't breed any corn snake that show "bug eyes"
Thank you! I looked up this morph and goodness theyre pretty! Glad to know more about them too. If i ever see any of these beauties ill know what to look out for there! @@idiotically-everything
I agree about education! I just bought my first snake ever-a pastel lesser spider-not knowing about the spider morph wobble (newbie here!). I was watching him last night and noticed he moved super strange while exploring his tank. I’ve now done my research, and while I still absolutely love him and will make sure to give him a good happy home, I wish the breeder would have told me about it when I bought him last weekend at the expo.
@@idiotically-everything do you know anything about Kenyan sand boa morphs? I’m looking into getting one for me and my kids, we’re thinking of a paradox snow Kenyan sand boa. I know quite a bit about that breed but not that particular morph. It’s just the one that we like. I’ve had a corn snake before and have been around snakes but honestly the different morphs confuse me because there are so many
As somebody who knows nothing about snakes - or used to know absolutely nothing, until I started watching Snake Discovery - I vote yes on the in depth spider morph video! The egg hatching / whacky color genetics videos is what drew me in, cant get enough of it.
there are a lot videos talking about spider ball pythons if snake discovery doesn't end up doing a video about it. it's definitely a controversal topic
You're like me! I knew squat and hated reptiles but got pulled in by Brian Barczyk. His channel led me here as well as several other very reputable folks. I now realize I was just ignorant to how cool reptiles really are.
I wanted to share my experience with a spider ball python, which happened almost 8 years ago at my first reptile convention. Initially, I had my heart set on a banana morph ball python, so I visited multiple breeders in search of one. However, it was at that time that I unexpectedly came across a banana spider ball python and instantly fell in love with it. Despite being an avid viewer of various pet UA-cam channels, I had never come across any information about the potential issues associated with the spider morph. When I purchased the snake, who I now affectionately call Noodle (yes, it's a bit cliché), I wasn't informed about any neurological side effects. Noodle is an absolutely amazing snake, and I wouldn't change my decision to bring him home for anything. However, I believe many first-time snake owners would have been confused or unaware of what they were getting themselves into. That being said, Noodle does experience a VERY severe wobble and requires a lot of patience and wasted rats/mice during feeding. I just wish breeders were more transparent about these issues because many people may not know how to handle them, and unfortunately, some snakes end up being surrendered as a result. Overall, it's important for potential snake owners to have all the necessary information about different morphs and their potential implications, so they can make informed decisions and provide the best care possible for their pets.
I'm glad that you were able to educate yourself on it, and willing to deal with his extra needs! The thing that I don't understand is why those breeders put so much effort into breeding these Spiders when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
@@warriormaiden9829 Yeah it does seem weird that they continue to breed them, especially when there seems to be no way to fix the genetic flaw. I mean if the morph was able to be het then maybe there could be something to work with. But if the snake can only be spider or not then I don't see how there could be any way to fix it.
I love the name of your snake. My nickname is Noodles funnily enough. Ive noticed recently that there are quite a lot of people out there that have a snake called Noodles somewhere in their collection.. I love it. X
I find it very good how they addressed that the blood from the eggs is normal otherwise it could be quite worrying for some people that they weren't doing anything about it
I know you didn't mean to breed spider morphs, and I understand why, but you gotta admire Topsy Turvy's determination. There's something kind of beautiful about him not letting his disability hold him back.
I rehomed a spider morph from a breeder as he didn't want him, so now he's in my care and living his best life - he's a bit wobbly but he's not letting it affect his life and I love him very much ☺️
@@FreedomAnderson I'm disabled as well. Animals don't let it stop them because they don't know anything different - it doesn't occur to them that they're not like the others. They see an obstacle and they just conquer it, or they don't, and if they don't they just forget about it and go conquer the ones they can without being hard on themselves. Often they end up carving out their own unique niches that way and excelling in those niches. Its about watching for doors opening to them even when others close. They really don't let anything stop them from living their best lives. Its a valuable lesson and one that I try hard to learn for myself every day.
@@KittenKiki13 I have a spider who doesn't really show her wobble at all unless my husbandry is off or something stresses her out (and even then all she does is tilt her head just a hair to the left). Its actually a bone in the inner ear thats a little larger or somewhat out of place than it should be and it just disrupts their equalibrium, and not a nuerological disorder at all. I can try and find a link to the recent study complete with radio imaging if you'd like. But I'm glad your giving yours such a good life. 🥰
I would love to hear more about spider morphs. I think the banana and the banana pastel are my favs. I'm glad everyone seems to have been born kink free and I guess we'll see how neurologically intact the two little spider beans are. Can we offer up the names of Charlotte and Lucas for the two little spider morph babies? I genuinely hope they aren't too wonkadonk and find safe, happy homes where they can thrive as beloved pets. And I KNOW Emily is not letting that banana pastel go. Pretty sure that's her new baby.
It was a single video of your baby hognose snakes hatching that took me from terrified of snakes to wanting one of my own! Thanks to you two I have an African Fat-Tailed gecko (named Milton after yours!), a ball python (named Hershey), and we're getting a rosy boa next month (named Skittles)! Thank you for sharing your love of reptiles with the world!!
Silence btw rosey have teath I learnt that picking up my little brother out of it cage because he wanted to hold it and it already bit my mom and dad before
I shared your channel with a second grader, I work with their reading. They LOVE snakes and dinosaurs. They now tell me about your vids, even though I’ve watched them too. It’s been a way to get them to practice reading. I go to the library and bring reptile books to read. ❤❤❤❤
Thank you for addressing the spider morph. Personally, I think it's unethical to intentionally breed that morph, but accidents happen and I do hope you're not too hard on yourself for it - luckily it was just two babies. If you keep one, please keep us updated, it would be interesting to see the issues documented by people who don't try to minimise them defensively. I think it's great that you have one as an educational animal. Loved the colours in this clutch and would like to hear an update on them in the future.
Snake Discovery is one of the biggest reptile channels on youtube. I would like them to keep one or both of the spiders and keep an unbiased documentation on them as well. People should know about these bad morphs.... Humans already messed up making flat-faced dogs and munchkin cats... this needs to stop. I worry that someone may buy these spider babies in the interest of breeding them. I know Emily said she'd make sure they went to GOOD homes, but people can lie. Or, maybe in years, this good home has to rehome the spider for one reason or another, you just never know. The last thing I want is for their painkiller induced mistake to result in even MORE spider babies, and the only way to guarantee there's no more spiders from these two babies is for them to take responsibility for these two babies and keep them. It's not like I'm angry or going to cancel snake discovery or anything. It was an understandable mistake, but a mistake should be made right. The only way to truly guarantee these two spider babies don't have more babies in the future is for snake discovery to keep them, unless there's a way to "fix" snakes like we do to cats and dogs lol.
@@midnightsan9917 but even if there weren't similar morphs, it's horrible either way to produce unhealthy animals (we don't even know if they suffer or not) just for a pretty pattern.
@@andreil1313 ?? We know that spiders have the wobble and I agree that its a bad thing but bamboo morphs don't have the wobble and have a similar pattern reduction thing going on.
@@midnightsan9917 Yes I know? What I meant is that even if there wasn't a similar (healthy) pattern to choose instead of Spiders, Spiders shouldn't be produced anyway. Regardless if there's already something similar or not .
Glad to see they all got big water dishes. I’ve handled this species for 25+ years and I’ve handled thousands of these guys. I can safely say that almost every single one, regardless of the proper humidity being achieved, loved to swim! In fact, they love swimming so much, one of my enrichment activities for this species is actually to seal off the bathroom and secure the tub, fill it with slightly cool water, and add them in with a weighted bin on one end for a dry spot. They absolutely love it. Great for shedding time too. I know a keeper who uses plastic Easter baskets instead of water dishes for them and often times her girl will sleep in the water dish. Also, they are known escape artists. If they are bored, they will look for trouble. But you can easily amuse them with unique hides, places to climb, and... get this... large cat toys. Like the geometric balls or a cardboard scratch board, which can be leaned against a wall and provide a climb, rough surface, and hide underneath it.
You sound like you know so much! The cat toy thing is definetely a cool idea, Ill probably try it out myself. But what Im wondering is the water part. I have a ball python and he dispises getting wet. He only ever drinks from it or like well, falls in his bowl while climbing. Ive never seen him volunatarly soak and his terrarium is in my room so I probably would have noticed. So I wanted to ask, how specifically do you give them the water. Maybe im doing something wrong here.
@@lady_apocalypse178 maybe your guy’s the odd one out for water loving? Don’t try to force something by adding more of what he dislikes because you read a comment on UA-cam lol
@@lady_apocalypse178 there's always an odd one lol but maybe the water is too cold, make sure it's in a warm spot and your warm side is hot enough, if it's not an issue try using the bathtub with even warmer (but not hot) water with a dry spot like how op does and see if he changes his mind. If not I guess you just got a little waterphobic noodle🤷🏻♀️
@@lady_apocalypse178 mine used to have a big water dish and never used it to soak, either. He prefers a humid hide over swimming, but still appreciates the occasional spa day when he makes a huge mess of his enclosure. Sometimes I'm worried he will connect the dots as he's happily relaxing in the sink and will make more work for me intentionally. 😛 But he also loves a 70F ambient temp with a 85F hot spot. They're funny little critters with different personalities and we sometimes get a weird one.
I’d really love to hear more about the spider morph! I feel like fully understanding what this morph can do and the extent of neurological issues they can have would be really fascinating to learn!
Hiya! I own three spider complex snakes: 2 spiders, and 1 hidden gene woma which is allelic with the spider gene. Personally, my snakes are actually fine with only one of them showing a slight head tilt when my husbandry is off or when she is startled by something. There are a few cases in which the wobble is as pronounced as the spider in this video, but mine eat well and behave like normal ball pythons - just my experience. The wobble is not actually caused by a neurological defect, but an inner ear one - over 20 years ago I had heard that their lower jaws were connected to their inner ears and that they "hear" vibrations picked up by their lower jaws resting on the ground, from MRI's it looks as though there is some merit to that rumor and it wouldn't surprise me if its true because our "hearing" is also vibrational despite "sound" being delivered via the outer ear. A recent study has been completed in which it was discovered through MRI imaging that the sacculus and semicircular canal in their inner ears are misshapen, resulting in some spider complex animals having issues with equilibrium. If you'd like, I can try to link you to the study (sometimes youtube doesn't allow that but I can at least dig it up and give you the title)?
It would be good if you guys did a video discussing the spider as big youtubers, but I hope you are honest about the facts. The wobble has been found (in spiders) to be an ear canal malformation, not a neurological issue, first off. Spider morph has been banned in some groups for a good reason. There's no evidence the wobble can be "bred out" and it's been bred for like >20 years at this point, so I frankly do not trust breeders who intentionally breed these. Not only spider but Champagne, Woma, HGW and Super Spotnose (Powerball) have wobbles. Super Spider, Super Champagne, Super Woma, Super HGW and combinations of those genes (eg Champagne + spider) cause stillborns. There are other problem morphs as well: Super Lesser causing bug eyes, "White Demon" (albino super lesser and other variations on albino + BEL) causing small eyes, duckbills, high kink rates. I did a morph guide and did some research into these various morphs and into the scientific literature. I don't see how anyone can see breeding these (intentionally) as ethical. I also follow snake rescuers who get snakes who wobble worse with old age because the owner listened to the breeder who said "this baby doesn't wobble" and then years later it developed the wobble. I hope that the babies in this clutch do well, though! It is not their fault they are spiders, ofc, and it was just an accident. In the grand scheme of things I'm sure you have the capability + experience to take care of them if they do wobble badly.
I really agree! This is a super useful guide/comment- thank you! I think it’s important for them to talk abt it as large UA-camrs and breeders And they may not even know everything you’ve put here since this is their first Ball python clutch!
Totally agree! I'm still doing my research but the more I learn, the more I can't comprehend how people continue to breed these morphs just because they look pretty. I've noticed on MorphMarket that there is a warning for morphs that might have wobbles (I noticed specifically for the woma because I didn't know they had the wobble)
That spider pastel (bumblebee, I believe you said) is gorgeous! I am with you 100% that health concerns should never be bred for the sake of appearance. Regardless of the species, pets are family, not ornaments, and deserve a level of respect and care. Thank you for speaking up, even in passing, about problem morphs. This is certainly an issue potential pet owners need to be aware of.
You can greatly reduce the wobble by reducing their stress. We moved our spider from a glass tank to a tub. And we stopped handling him as much and took our time to get him super comfortable. His wobble almost went completely away.
Yup, I have three and one of them only shows a mild head tilt when my husbandry is off or when something startles her. Having said that, I'm sure Ed and Emily's husbandry is spot-on, so Topsy Turvy's case is pretty extreme.
@@katydidd6321 Also, it's worth mentioning that wobble can have different presentations and it's a paradoxical trait, so you don't get strictly Mendelian inheritance patterns. Two ultra-low-wobble Spider morphs can produce an EXTREMELY wobbly baby, and vice versa. Generally speaking, high-wobble snakes struggle with things like feeding, though, so the trend is towards high-wobble babies not surviving for long.
@@Abigail-hu5wf Yes, that is true. However, there are other perspectives on this. I come from a long family history of dog and horse breeders and I can say for sure that a lot of good work has been done to breed out genetic issues with those animals. A *lot*. Its very much downplayed and ethical breeders are all but forgotten because there's so much press focused on unethical breeders (as there should be) and of the success rates that breeders have enjoyed in breeding out defects - yes, I am of course aware that there are unscrupulous dog and horse breeders out there, but they get a reputation very quickly and are weeded out. If its possible to breed out defects in dogs and horses, then why shouldn't we try to breed healthier bp morphs (spider is not the only morph that has issues but its the only one that gets people so worked up which is odd to me)? Is there something that I'm not aware of going on with reptile genetics thats different from mammal genetics? On a side note: I don't actually breed my spiders, so there is no worry about this on my end of things. I'm simply curious because I've been keeping pet reptiles (mostly snakes including ball pythons) for probably about 20 years give or take, and I'm fascinated by the differences between the two groups.
yep. we had bought a normal at an expo and then when we were ready for a second, we stumbled upon a spider morph rescue. while our (eventually 2) snake(s) were in glass tanks, he was in a tub and was minimally handled, usually only to check for stuck shed/weight/and moving him to clean the tub. it helped his wobble SO much
@Katy Didd ..... you are right on about the breeding. I'm a retired dog breeder. I have been training and showing dogs for 48 yrs. I mentored with a breeder who had been breeding for over 25 years. After years of learning from her, she helped me get set up, gave me a couple female pups and teens as a co/owner . I raised, trained, xrayed and dna tested them. With the DNA tests that are available and if breeders would stop focusing on mass production, take their time to study the bloodlines and don't breed something that isn't up to breeding standards, just because they bought it, theyhavea goodchanceof havinghealthy pups. .. Have a standard and stick to it no matter what. Don't ever give in to temptation and breed an animal that isn't the quality in health or temperament that is the model of the standard. It sucks to take a hit on an animal you planned on breeding and couldn'tbecause it carrieda gene you didnt want, but in the long run, your reputation and buyer loyalty is important. To have that, you have to breed only healthy animals. You have to keep in your head that your goal is to better the breed, not get rich. You get enjoyment from the pups and your dogs. Plan on working your butt off for puppy breath kisses. We bred Imported German Shepherds. Since German Shepherds have a reputation for having so many health and sometimes temperament problems, we couldn't budge on our beliefs. I knew of people in my state that would run adds on Craigslist or asking someone at the dog park (eww) for stud service. They weren't checking hips/elbows, doing any DNA tests, having blood testing for STD's before natural breeding. All they care about is if the other dog was registered with AKC. Big deal!!! These people weren't wormings pups, doing vet checks or vaccinations, screening buyers. They just want to make money. They breed every cycle. So mom is completely worn out and unhealthy. They aren't mass production puppy mills, they are crappy back yard breeder. They buy the cheapest dog food, nothing is clean and you will be sorry you bought that pup because it will cost you in vet bills. Then there are people like one classroom mom. "I want my kids to experience puppies being born". The kids got grossed out, she had no idea what she was doing, didn't realize how messy pups get and ended up taking 3 pups to the shelter. Jeeze. I warned her not to breed her dog. Later I tried to give her help just so the pups would stay healthy but she refused to listen. These are also the type of people that start getting rid of pups at 4-5 weeks old because it's to much work or the pups are to loud. We actually have a state law that says pup have to be with mom until they are 8 wks old and just like livestock, if any cross state lines, they need a Department of Agriculture health certificate from a certified veterinarian. But they don't get inspected so they break these laws. They would be in trouble if the inspector showed up!!!😮 This country already has a puppy mill problem but the not very smart backyard breeder just adds to it. I had haters get after me because I was a breeder but I felt that people deserved the opportunity to have a dog and know that it was healthy and had a sound temperament.
I tried to look up Banana Pastel spider ball pythons and it seems they may be referred to "Banana Queen Bee" which is adorable. Banana for the yellow, Queen for Pastel, and Bee for the spider part. Which makes it even cuter the mom's name is honey. (:
@@solis7668 Wrong reply? I am talking about a snake's coat pattern/color name possibility associated with the snake in this video.. nothing year related.
Thank you for talking about the spider morph and its associated neurological issues. I've disliked the idea of breeding it since I first heard about it - it seems a lot like the issues you find in certain dog breeds that severely impact their quality of life (e.g. pugs and their deformed faces). It's highly unethical to deliberately breed an animal that's going to suffer, especially if the only reason to do it is cosmetic.
Exactly! What I don't understand is why those breeders put so much effort into breeding these Spiders when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
@@warriormaiden9829 because before the others morph even normal ball python would just die upon arrival or after been hatch .it took years to be able to have viable ball python that last 30 years + instead of a couple months! Really bad case of any deformation is culled out. what you see on UA-cam is people adopting spider that should have been cull but backyard breeder doesn't care and still sold the animal .it could be also cause by bad care that manifest the wobble on healthy spider! Same for colubrid albino would have just die but breeder keep breeding healthier and better specimen and now they are 100% fine. Hopefully one day we will find a cure to wobble!
With this morph it's even worse than with dogs. With dogs you can have all breeds without health issue because the issue comes from overbreeding not the breed itself, but with those snakes it's not overbreeding. All snakes with this morph will have that problem.
@Schrödingers Katze At this point, even pugs from reputable breeders have trouble breathing because of their smashed faces. It's become an inherent trait of the breed. I get that the spider gene can't be bred out while that smashed face of pugs can, but both issues can be avoided by not breeding for that specific trait.
@@schrodingerskatze4308I mean for dogs, it's been so long it's kind of at the point where the issues have been bred into a new morph that is now accepted as part of the breed. So... Let's not do that here 😂
One thing I love about this channel is you admit to your mistakes you could've said nothing about the thiner stripes but you admit to your mistakes and I love you for that❤
Really happy to hear you choose to not breed for the spider morph! Definitely encouraging to see UA-cam reptile breeders choosing the health of their snakes, over their look.
I think, as one of the largest reptile channels on UA-cam it would be really important for you guys to make a video on the discussion of Spider morphs- but also other Neuro-issue causing morphs!
They did have one when it was revealed that a certain reptile channel was purposefully breeding spider ball pythons. Many other reptile UA-cam channels made videos denouncing the practice and so did Snake Discovery but their video was deleted, I assume they didn't want to seem controversial.
When I first found this channel I looked to find your opinion on spiders, I love hearing your acknowledge the problem and I think a full video on the morph and any complexities of the issue would be really beneficial information to have in the hobby scene. You two are some of the best educators I've ever seen
I agree and would appreciate a video a ton. I rescued a spider ball python and he’s 7 and he incredibly wobbly:( I feel so bad for him and wanna know how to give him the best quality of life
@@candaceshelton1898 try wickens wicked reptiles, i think adam might have a video on them since he has a spider that doesnt have much of a wobble. Their care does very though depending on how severe the wobble is, so id keep things that he could slam his head into out of his cage and use thin plastic hides
While I can see why so many people love the ball python morphs, I have to say - I actually prefer the normals. The color variations are indeed striking, and very pretty, but to my eyes there's just something charming about the wild-type coloration. Like it's some sort of wild fruit you could go out and pick off a tree. I like that.
I have to agree. Of the many many ball pythons I’ve had over the years, three stand out. Jake, a normal; Ari, a normal; and Evan, a Pastel Pinstripe (Lemonblast). Lemonblast is my favorite color morph but normals are pretty beautiful.
I agree! The morphs are gorgeous and I'd love to have one someday, but I have 2 female normals (Tonks and Ana Gwyn) and I think they're both gorgeous. Just classy and classic.
I thought at first that maybe the morph might've been hidden in the parents' genes since they were rescues, but it's good that you know how the mistake happened at least! Topsy Turvy might be wobbly but he's definitely got the right moves to get the lady asap 😂 It's a shame it causes neurological problems, they look really beautiful.
Anyone curious about the spider debate I always point them to Clint’s Reptiles video and Kevin McCurley’s video on it. He developed the gene and adores his animals, and Clint is a zoologist and very ethical keeper. They do t have an issue with the coloration and I do t really either they’re super cute
There are people working on breeding the neurological disorder out of the snake, probably kevin mccurly now that i think about it. So hopefully one day we can have spiders that dont have the wobble so we can have a beautiful morph without the problems it has
@@annikkirahko6714 Kevin made money from them, and Clint regularly shares false or outdated information in his videos. Neither are reputable in this topic.
My son has my two grandsnakes: Asterion a Bull Snake and Morpheus a Sumatran Blood Python. I love them so much! Morpheus is a great cuddle buddy to hang out on the sofa. I love watching new babies come from their eggs and how interesting the patterns can be. I hope that the spider guys are okay. They are SO adorable. Maybe Ball Python got their name from the fact that they stay in a ball?
Fun fact: my snake also has the spider morph and I have always been wondering why he is always having his head go a little crazy. Happy I learned about the spider morph 😁, thank you guys!
TBH, this post is super sad because it shows that despite this issue going nuclear a few years ago with basically every third snake channel coming out as for or against the ban of their sale in UK Reptile Expos, people are still getting these snakes with no idea there's something *seriously* wrong with them. Take good care of them, and pay attention for things like them falling upside down while moving or accidentally biting themselves while trying to eat - that one has happened to people with relatively minor wobble and generally requires your manual intervention to get them to stop, because they think their food is fighting them and just bite down harder and harder. Soft substrate and low climbing branches are a must.
@@candycane11103 Some people could have been given the snake by someone else, and even in the year I've been researching ball pythons in preperation of getting one hopefully in a few months I only learned about spiders from this video when I first saw it a few months ago. I had SEEN the morph at reptile cons, but had never known about anything attached to the morph. People's first thought when getting a snake isn't normally "gee I wonder what morphs are lethal or can cause severe neurological issues in the snake !!!!!", its about how to care for them, habitat needs and size, size of the snake, diet, bonding, ect. Show some kindness. It's very easy to simple never find out or never be informed about these kinds of things unless you are specifically looking for them.
@@candycane11103 I have been researching snakes for 8 years, even I didn't know about this disability attached to the morph. Sometimes you just don't stumble upon an information no matter for how long you learn.
Thank you for addressing the spider morph issues and how important it is to your heritage lines that you be careful when breeding. I'm glad they all hatched healthy and I hope they're able to have good lives.
Considering that ball pythons are some of the longest bred in captivity, it’s not surprising that they have so much more variety in morphs than many other species. I can’t wait to see what other species develop through breeding over the years
It worries me tho bc even here ppl wanna "work on the wobble" and comparing it to dogs and cats... We breed dogs and cats too look a certain way and nobody cares that that poor pug is going to have breathing issues, or that Persian cat has a cleft palate bc of his breed standard smushed face, or that Scottish fold will have painful joint issues, or that corgi is going to have hip and spine issues. Like we just accept that that's part of the breed bc "well it's cute, and it's here already, this one needs a home!"
I love how honest these two are. Nothing but respect for these amazing crestores! I ended up with a clutch of 4 ball python eggs by accident, thinking both my snakes were girls!! Turns out my piebald is a male! Normal female. Laid just a few days ago! Anyways, looking forward to my first clutch, good luck guys with the baby spiders! I would love to have updates on their condition!
This is the first clutch of baby ball pythons I have ever seen and the spider morph babies were not moving at all I thought they were expired. So happy to know all 10 made it out of the eggs alive ❤❤❤❤
Haha I did too momentarily forgetting why they're called ball pythons I just saw spider morphs not moving and was like oh no was it so severe that they expired soon after coming out of the egg 😅 nope just ball pythons being little ball pythons
Same! I thought it was gonna be "wanna talk about these two" "yeah they didn't make it😭" and instead it was "they are all healthy so far but we have to watch them and see"
If you look at when I posted my reply, it was right around the time when that was discovered. At the time I posted my reply, it was thought to be neuro issues.@@acrylicabyss
Don't worry about the spider morph accident too much, mistakes happen, just make sure this does not repeat itself. I also think a dedicated spider morph video would be a good idea since you guys have a huge audience, lots of the audience is on the younger side too I think and it is very important to use the reach you have here to educate people on something that is a huge ethical issue.
I haven’t been able to put my finger on why I enjoy these videos so much more than other snake content creators until today. Emily and Ed talk for their animals like my husband and I do and I’m the science educator and my husband is the tech guy. These videos are so fun.
As someone that has been on Oxycodone (I was on it for 3 months when I was 16 due to severe back pain while it was being researched. It is actually neurological so after 3 months I was put on appropriate medication) I don't remember ANYTHING from that time and refuse to go on it again unless needed. Oxycodone is insanely strong and I really command Emily for being able to work on that medication!
Dude I wish my body reacted like that to Oxycodone. I have fibromyalgia, Ehlers danlos syndrome, and frequently get kidney stones (more painful than child birth) and on a drip at the hospital for it it isn’t enough to knock out all that pain and doesn’t make me that loopy, I’m 20
@Emmett Howell I'm 22 now (23rd year), and I still remember feeling the pain, but just being so out of it that I was barely ever continuous. I did just recently get diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and severe hypermobility but the back pain is due to that as well as an injury as a child. I never want oxygen again, morphine also doesn't work for me so it can be a pain to get proper pain medications when I'm in a hospital as I'm not allowed to jave any NSAIDS either.
@@blairberry6257 I have that kind of reaction to morphine, plus open and close eyed hallucinations. I can’t have NSAIDS either and even so it’s like water to me . Typically I’m given hydromorphone (dilaudid) in hospitals and hydrocodone/acetaminophen (Vicodin) for outpatient stuff but 3 times daily take Tizanidine, but none fully get rid of my pain but make it more manageable/bearable. I hope you are doing as well as you can with managing your pain
Oxy is as far as I know a morphin derevation and highly addicting. Now, I know pain after an operation sucks - badly! I had two in the last 12 months and even in fairly painful areas with multiple weeks healing time each. It is doable on Ibuprofin with some additional metamizol in case for the worst days. If possible and with your doctors opinion given, always try to go for something non addicting. So many people get tied to the drugs and that rabbit hole is one risky slippery slide.
@@emmetthowell899 I'm sorry that you are saddeld with all that. I hope you will find a pain managment therapy that works for you. Concerning the Oxy: like all meds the body sadly gets used to it and it becomes less effectiv over time. I hope you have a trustworthy physician who can look into alterntivs for treatment - be it another type of drug or some regime that might help lessen the pain. If I'm not mistaken EDS is a form of hypermobility - and I am in the same boat there at now age 28. Last year I was mostly immobile because of another acute issue not tyied to the hypermobility. But whilst I don't know your exact pain I do feel you and feel for you. My leg joints are basically all dead and destabilze way to quick at any second. The amount of times when walking normally becomes falling on my face with strechtched or ripped tendons is not funny anymore. Currently working on building up muscles in hope that does something. I am not saying that sports is the cure all. But not doing sports certainly worsend my stability. Best of luck to you!
Same! Been watching for 3-4 years now, and I'm sitting on tenterhooks until they say it. It's kind of become a stamp of their hatching videos, and I've noticed a couple other responsible YT breeders picking it up. I hope it sticks around and spreads!
I'd definitely love a video on the spider gene. It is our duty as consumers and breeders to be educated about how genetics can effect the over all quality of life of the animals we wish to care for. Obviously, breeders have more responsibility as they are trusted to be educated on this topic already, but as consumers we drive the market for certain morphs. A video by you guys would educate a lot of us hobbyists who would otherwise not know.
True, if people stop buying them, breeders won't produce them anymore. I once asked a breeder why was he producing spiders, the answer was "because they sell". So there's that..
I would love to see some follow up videos on the spider morph babies! I’m so curious how they will do as they grow up! I hope they are happy and healthy despite neurological issues
18:09 Just the joy in your face as you have both your hands full of your beloved snakes is so lovely to see! I love to see people being so enthusiastic about the work that they do, as you are. I'm sure that you have inspired so many children when you go out to schools and show them your snakes and other animals. I'm sure it would make the children more kind towards wildlife animals they encounter, and maybe some of the kids will be inspired to go into a career which involves looking after animals. Bravo!
I would love learning more about the spider morph. Hopefully the two can be an extension to Topsy Turvy's lessons about the genes and may help students and others learn, understand, and form their own opinion on breeding the morph. I hope that all the snakes find good homes and healthy lives.
11:48 - Here is the answer to the fear-inducing headline and description! Two of the 10 babies are spider-morph, which causes neurological issues along with the pattern change. I definitely want to see a video explaining all about it, cuz all I know is the head-wobble, I'd love to see the details laid out in educational format!
Banana is also my favorite morph, and I have a banana pastave (pastel/mohave) so I definitely loved seeing those banana pastel babies. They remind me of when my guy was just so teeny tiny. He's 2 and just starting to loose his baby colors but really not much, that pastel gene is really a miracle color preserver lol.
You do realise that mom is not banana or the baby they were not sure of the dad could have done the thing how we were made on some other snake dummy🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇 i like snakes i like dogs i like cats i like bunnys
Thank you for specifying that the spider morph only shows up as a direct result of a spider pairing, and babies can’t be “het spider.” Until you said that I was wondering if it was possible that Honey & Banana Bread (being rescues) possibly carried a het spider gene, rather than Topsy contributing genetically to a few babies in the clutch. It would have bugged the heck out of me if I didn’t know the answer 😂 Banana pastels are my ultimate favorite morph….I do have a deep appreciation for anything axanthic, and who doesn’t love a pied? Blue eyed leucistics have grown on me, too. Banana pastels though, oh man, amazing.
given topsy turvy's own visible genetics i can't say for certain banana bread fathered any kids topsy might've fathered them all and just rolled 2 spiders in the whole clutch, wouldn't be the first snake discovery clutch to pull weird odds and the genetic lottery
@@midnightsan9917 Super Spider (2 copies of the gene) is a lethal combo, so far as has been determined. So any living Spider only has 1 copy of the Spider gene. This means that while it shows in any who inherent the gene, there's only a 50/50 chance for it to pass, because the Spider parent still has the normal non-Spider gene as well (one copy of each). "Dominant" only means it requires just one copy for full expression. It does not mean that it magically results in an unpaired allele (which, by the way, would result in silencing of the allele if it were unpaired, rather than a guarantee of passing onto offspring). "Co-dominant" refers to expression being only partial if there is just one copy.
@@midnightsan9917 Topsy only has one copy of the spider gene, so it's 50-50 whether it's passed on. Snakes who inherit two copies of the gene don't even survive to hatch.
I loved the painkiller joke at the end of the video! I'm watching from my hospital recovery room after a surgery, and I can absolutely see mixing up animals! I also really appreciate Emily's and Ed's honesty when they mess up, and show the channel that it's also a normal part of life and reptile keeping.
I can understand your point with the spider gene, but damn, those two are freaking gorgeous. I am really glad they are here and we got to see them, even if it wasnt planned. Hope they are living their best life right now.
I would love to see a video about further explaining the spider morph and your thoughts and feelings on them! I appreciate your honestly and i have a lot of respect for you guys for choosing not to breed them (intentionally!) 💖
I'm glad you're transparent about the spider morph. To me, a sign of a good animal breeder is someone who takes responsibilty for the animal babies they bring into this world, regardless of making an accident. We're all human after all. I don't know much about snakes and I think the pastel-spider is very pretty, but I do own some pets and I pick breeders who priortise health and character over looks anytime.
Love that the ball pythons are so unique compared to your usual breeds, my sister bought a banana ball python from the pet store and they call anything not the normal "fancy"
In animals 'fancy' is usually accepted to refer to 'pet' So I think it refers to how morphs are for the pet trade rather than the more common meaning of fancy.
I appreciate your transparency on your mistake and I hope they go to good homes. It seems like you don't pull punches when it comes to the spider morph which is refreshing. I see too many creators who ride the fence and won't speak their mind. It would be cool to see you guys make a whole video on spider.
Absolutely. My heart dropped when I saw those two and realized what they were. Was relieved to hear it was an accident, and kinda chuckled at their admonition to stay off of pain killers while handling snakes. The thing that I don't understand is why those that breed Spiders put so much effort into breeding them when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
@@nonamebxtch Not every single one, but a decent number of them. Part of it is an attempt to spark discussion on the subject (as I enjoy seeing other's viewpoints), but part of it is also trying to make people aware of an alternative pattern to Spider. Part of phasing out Spider is finding something else to replace it, and that's not going to happen if people don't know it exists.
I'm glad you spoke about the spider morph. Those snakes do have a beautiful pattern and I can understand why people find them so pretty, but it is good to educate people about patterns that come with health conditions. I didn't even know that was a common issue with that morph before this video.
I thought you guys should know that today I was able to relay a small amount of snake knowledge today because of your content. I work in a small animal clinic in Newfoundland, and we do no work with snakes. But someone with a Ball Python called with a concern. I was able to make one small suggestion because of what I've learned from you. ❤❤
I love the bumblebee morph so it’s very unfortunate that it does contain spider. The breeding facility I work at is currently phasing out spider due to their physiological issues (inner ear issues)
With you guys being the only snake UA-camrs I watch, I'm so used to the bullsnakes and Hognoses that the chonk and different shape of the Ball pythons caught me by suprise. And just how still they are! Staying curled up in the ball, not hissing and being sassy and trying to escape, so different! They are so cute tho, and I love all the colours. With this Channel being my only insight into the snake world, I don't know anything about the different Ball Python months, so it would be interesting to see a video explaining the issues with the spider morph.
The pastel-spider combo is so pretty with the ink splotch pattern, and it would probably be my favorite if it weren't for the issues with the morph. On one side it would be amazing to breed out the issues, but at the same time, that means breeding more spider morphs in the first place Of the normal babies, the pastel with the orange fade is my fav. I'm weak for high contrast, and yellow+orange on black? It's just a combo meant to be stunning
I don't think it's possible to breed out the wobble from the spider, nor is it possible to "reduce" the wobble through breeding. The allele that causes the spider morph is inherently tied to the wobble, which can get better or worse almost at random and can cause developmental issues regardless. Obviously a spider ball in a loving, caring environment will likely do better than one kept in a bad one, but the wobble will still be there no matter what. It's been tried countless times before with no progress, it's best to let the spider die out as a morph and keep the ones that currently exist in as loving an environment as possible.
@@vulturesalesman Agreed. It's like the double Overo gene dropping Lethal White Syndrome (LWS) foals. Equine color genetic testing has existed for a while, and the APHA requires all registered stallions to be tested before being bred so Overo mares can be avoided. Don't get me wrong, accidents happen, but once an LWS foal has been identified, it's euthanized so the foal doesn't suffer the torture of a ruptured bowel or blood poisoning on their way to their inevitable death (no LWS foal has lived longer than 3 days, even with attempted treatment). What I don't understand is why those breeders put so much effort into breeding these Spiders when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
@@idiotically-everything if we would have done that to every ball python/colubrid, we would of not have ball python at all! be happy that people are still trying to heal wobble and trying to find a cure for it, it not just breed for the jest of it like you claim!You think we are all heartless and money hungry!? These animals back in the day were just dying after less than 1 year and it was a normal ball python! Breeder will figure it out with vets ect.
@@vulturesalesman It was mostly a comment reffering to what they mentioned in the video; that some were trying to find a way to keep the pattern without the neurological issues. I don't have any more knowledge on that subject myself
I got really into researching spider morphs a few years ago, and while I'm not an expert by any sense of the word, I have noticed some issues with how it's addressed on youtube. Some of the bigger snake/reptile accounts that showcase spider morphs give blatant misinformation or downplay the severity of just how bad the neurological problems can get and it's really disheartening. Thank you for taking the time to make your stance on it, and I would love an in depth video about them! You can never have too much information :))
I think a video on different morphs you don't support breeding for would be really interesting! It doesn't have to be a video specifically on the spider morph. Also so glad they all came out!!!! They're so cute and this is such an exciting video to see finally!!!! 🩷
Agreed! Would love to have one on each species they know, rather than all species being in the same video. A bit more work, but would be well worth it for ease of education.
I love all the morphs you can get with Bob pythons they are so cool! I hope you will continue to breed these animals. They are so beautiful. I’m still a little scared of snakes, but watching these videos has made me less scared of them! I love how much you love your animals.❤❤❤
The fact that Snake Discovery is open about their mistakes, take accountability and are willing to learn from the mistakes is such a breath of fresh air with exotic animal channels. You folks are honestly one of the only animal channels I trust to not secretly be shady af behind the scenes, and it’s BECAUSE of things like this.
i❤lqiqqonth is cut
Some on tiktok say the enclosures and bins are too small still
They have been breeding snakes for as long as I can remember them documenting it. They did just a couple of North American species at first and have moved onto other species progressively.
@celticwolf Unfortunately when you breed reptiles on a large scale you can't actually give them the big enclosures they need because you would simply not be able to fit enough animals in one space.
I think Snake discovery is doing everything right, and the smallish bin enclosures are still way better than most breeders
@@celticwolf8123 the enclosures are absolutely fine.
You know Topsy Turvy hit that *SOOO FAST* when he realized he was left with a female. He was like, "This is never, ever going to happen again!"
NOWS MY CHANCE 😂😭
"Hey baby... know what else wobbles in my presence? Your heart."
(real talk, that line was actually used on me once :D )
BEST COMMENT HERE 😂
@@katydidd6321 LMAO
So tur
As soon as I saw the reduced pattern through the egg goop I was like "oh no that's a spider for sure 😬"
I'm glad you guys recognize the problems associated with this morph and I'd love a full video on the topic for education purposes. Many people buy spider morphs without being aware of the struggles those snakes can have.
LOL, I just had the same reaction. (I do not even keep snakes), Those poor little guys :(
Accidents happen, but too many people still breed them.
I view the spider morph in the same way I view the short snout on dogs.
Sure, it's cool/cute, but it's not worth the suffering to the animal. And you can "breed the bad effects out" but you have to go through countless sick babies before you get to the healthy one... it's not worth the cost just for a cool/cute looking animal.
@@jadecoolness101 You can't "breed the bad effects out", it's tied to the allele that causes the morph. Some individuals will have a better or worse wobble, often depending on their environment, but it can always get better or worse at any time. Spider should be allowed to die out as s morph and the remaining spiders should be given to loving homes that won't breed them.
@@vulturesalesman technically you likely can because crosscutting alleles, but the fact is... too many sick babies would be made along the way. Spider can never be ethical because it inherently requires sick babies be made.
@@jadecoolness101 a neurological disorder is very different to a squashed face. especially since squashed faced dogs can actually be well bred unlike the spider morph.
I remember how nervous Emily was talking about the spider morph when the channel was still relatively new, and seeing the confidence in front of camera compare when it comes to speaking of difficult topics like these is really nice. Thanks to the openness and allowing yourself to show others that you make mistakes, too, you guys are probably the only channel I trust when it comes to snakes and exotic pets like such. Thanks for the vid!
Emily: "Can you not all be in a clump together???"
Babies: "What exactly did you not understand in the name _Ball_ Python???"
😂😂😂😂
I had that exact thought! :)
😂😂😂😂😂😂
You are so right🍌🍌🍌
I don’t know why people freak about the spider gene. Spider gene is fine and the snakes eat.
Please please PLEASE do a video on the ball python morphs with neuro issues. Not just spiders! There's some combinations that have wobble with one alele and some that are straight deadly with two. And since balls are so overwhelmingly common, it's super important to educate people interested in getting a ball python what genes should not be perpetuated by breeding or even creating demand.
I have a normal banana that might have a wobble. He does flip his head around sometimes. And is slow to right his head when I gently flip him over (I do it to test for Neuro issues)
This. It's hard to do research on bp neuro issues because all the videos are about either spiders or people talking about the pros of breeding the morph with issues. For example when I was trying to do research on Champagne to cater for my latest adoption I just kept finding videos on "everything awesome about breeding the champagne morph" so had to settle with watching spider videos and hope the same information applies
When I first got into snakes and brought home my first buddy, I always thought "uh spider morph is dominant, so it has to always show". My snake is a BEL so completely white. I thought she didn't have spider gene and the guy I bought her from was really sketchy and told me she was all healthy (exotic animals are not common in my country so the sellers are almost always sketchy) I was devestated when I saw how wobbly she was because I am completely against buying or breeding an animal knowing it will have a health issue. I was so mad at myself for giving money to someone who profits off these poor babies who will live all their lives, not knowing what is up and down right or left, just always dizzy. Anyways it happened, and I had to educate myself more and to remind myself to be more cautious of exotic animal sellers here. I love my baby girl tho its been years now and as always, she is super sweet happy and healthy aside from this issue.
Comment to bump this because that is a very good idea!
What I don't understand is why those breeders put so much effort into breeding these Spiders when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
"Demoted to birthday animal" Is so so funny to me. Demoted to birthday clown to atone for his crimes.
Do u know how to get to the waiting list?
This reads like a tumblr post 😅😂
@@lenaevess was about to say lol
"you did crime, now you have to deal with children" 😂
@@brookewilderness7659 I don’t know the full process but I believe it’s for patreons, there’s probably something there showing where to go!
I kind of love that I just found out that the channel which brought me to yours (clint's) has a long video on why he has no problem breeding these animals all born with a disability while you have a video on how sorry you are to have screwed up and *accidentally* created two. Kind of cemented your place as overwhelmingly the most ethical reptile channel I've found on here.
I do like that he's trying to improve it, and it might actually be due to ear malformations instead, from what I've heard... But I do personally agree that purposefully breeding smthn with known health issues isn't fair to the animal that has no say in being here.
@@StonedtotheBones13 Tell that to anyone who breeds flat-faced cats/dogs. 🤦
@@fullmoonshadow6967 If you're talking about Brachy breeds, they're totally healthy if bred correctly. The thing that actually causes the breathing issues is BOAS which is a deformity of the nasal passage ways. This can be tested for and ethical breeders do NOT breed any dog with a positive BOAS score. The issue is that people want these dogs for cheap and they want them quickly so they go to BYB and puppy mills and get their puppies there. Those breeders will not test for BOAS and are just trying to make profit. Ethically bred brachy breeds are just as healthy and capable as any other breed. Many even do sports such as agility or dock diving.
Emely: "We are gonna find out what's inside our ball python eggs"
Me: "I sure hope it's ball pythons..." 🧐
I said this exact thing to my partner but he didn't laugh, joke wasted
@@SocksAndMittens6435 i think they meant that it was rude / they said it sarcastically) that they didn’t laugh !
I had the exact sarcastic, silly thought. I'm not a snek person until I found this channel a few months ago. I'm fascinated!
@@s1rennn Oh, I think I misunderstood! My bad
@@LilyNeons The only one here who is rude is YOU
Props to Topsy on being an ABSOLUTE STUD in spite of his neurological deformity. That boy is POTENT.
Bro Bread's sperm was fighting for their lives in there
@@solstice_soda701for real 😂
you said it!
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Bread 🍞 honey 🍯
I actually own a bumblebee python and we didn’t know about the morph’s issues until we did some more research after noticing his little wobble. He’s about a year old now, and we were mostly able to reduce the issue by helping him as best we could as a baby (and he probably doesn’t have the issue as badly as other snakes may), but I really am disturbed that breeders still choose to breed spider morphs with the issues that can have. I realized where the video was going once you’d shown the bumblebee in your clutch. Accidents happen, but thank you both for talking about the issue to raise more awareness!
I own a spider mohave he has a pretty noticable wobble but he eats great and explore and look as happy as like my regular ball python. He wobbles mostly when he gets excited (food) or scared (me moving something or à drop of water touching him randomly)
I dont think they should be bred but i think they can live à very good life!
My friend's girl Bea doesn't seem to have a wobble, and she's about four. I don't know if he got lucky or what, because she doesn't appear to have issues, or if she does, they're not particularly noticeable.
same i didn't know that the bumblebee morph was a combo of spider this explanes my ball python's issus
@@boxpine8323 they are awfully cute snakes tho I feel horrible about this issue that bumblebees have 😢
I highly recommend GoHerping’s video on spider ball pythons, a lot of people try to make that argument that “oh well they’re not all that bad so it’s fine to breed them” but I don’t think it’s fair to the animals for us to keep rolling those dice with their health and well-being.
I love how they still treat the spider morphs so nicely even though they weren’t planned. I love little snake babies they’ve always been so cute 🥰
Thank you for talking about the spider morphs. While beautiful and they can live a happy and healthy life, I still cannot see why some people defend them. If we can breed animals in a way that we guarantee that the offspring doesn't have a major health condition, we absolutely should do so.
Some of them can live normal lives, but I've seen videos of them where the neurological effects are REALLY bad and they basically have to be forcefed because they can't strike/latch on properly on their own to their food. They bang around in their enclosures and smash their heads into things... it's awful.
I'm completely against the breeding of that morph.
Its really hard to tell how many spiders function just fine and how many are severely affected because breeders are not very transparent about it. Also there’s little info on whether it’s even possible to breed the wobble out of spiders.
I’m glad they were talked about too. I wanted one for a while cause they look so cute, but I would rather they not be bred.
@@Palitato From what I've seen, most spider's don't have a pronounced wobble, or at least one that negatively affects their ability to live a healthy and good life. From what I've seen, most of the spiders that have really bad wobbles were either abused/lived in poor conditions or the result of a spider to "wobble complex" genes(champagne, woma, spotnose). Thats not to say that some aren't born with a really bad wobble, but from what I've noticed they aren't too common. That said, I would never buy or breed spider because there is that greater possibility genetically. I'm not in favor of "banning" the breeding of the morph, but I am for full breeder transparency on the degree to which the wobble is and the euthanization of snakes with really bad wobbles.
Lots of people don't know that ALL spiders have the wobble syndrome even if they're not corkscrewing all over the place and it affects everything from their balance and righting reflex to muscle tone and development. And it can get worse at any point in the animal's life. I'm a ball python breeder and I do not believe it's ethical to intentionally produce them because of this, so I don't have any neuro complex morphs. A lot of people still also claim it is possible to breed the wobble out of the gene but it is not, whatever biological process causes the phenotype is the same thing that causes the wobble syndrome so it is impossible to separate the two - if an animal has spider, it also has wobble syndrome and they are inseparable. People have been trying for decades and there's been no progress at all.
Would love to see a video discussing the spider ball morph more! They’re gorgeous but I agree that our visual enjoyment alone doesn’t justify these snakes having lifelong neurological issues :(
There are quite a few large reptile UA-camrs who are pro-spider so I’d like to see you guys offer some counterpoints! Also great since your channel seems to attract lots of first-time keepers and this could help them make better educated purchasing decisions!
agreed :)
I'm an advocate for responsible breeding of anything. NERD is working a line of spider responsibly. Kevin rocks, though.
When I got my first snake I got a ball python but unfortunately I got a spider and didn’t even know there was a problem about them and my mom also got a bp (super enchi lemonblast) and she wants to breed them so when we do we wont be able to hold back spiders and make sure we tell the buyer about the spider wobble. I don’t want to breed them but my mom says it would be fine :(
Agreed!!
@@Cedar_and_pals Your mom needs to do a LOT more research.
Before approaching the spider ethics, I'd look at odds from the pairing to see if it's even likely to get morphs worth the effort financially. And look at the costs of raising them to adulthood if you can't find buyers.
Your morphs are much fancier, but this is how I talked my husband out of breeding our normal adult male BP who has stunted growth from the negligent conditions we rescued him from.
The fact that she knew the mistake that she made, and didn't keep quiet about it. Made me feel like she is a great person to get snakes from, she knows where she got them from, she knows what breeds they are because she breeds them, AND she explains what they do behind the scenes. God bless you both 🙏🏻 Thanks for being the best people you guys can be💖❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Aww, that's so nice
yeah that is really nice@@Suemk1963
you are so kind
ok
I don't understand why they're breeding snakes to begin with. Aren't they completely swamped with rescues? Every reptile channel I've seen is over whelmed with rescues..
Props to Topsy for getting the job done in just an hour
OMG LITERALLY EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING!! 😂
Despite the little spider accident I'm glad to see all babies are ok! I was worried a bit that the two spiderlings were stillborns but I had a sigh of relief when they moved.
It's sad that they will probably have some degree of wobble, but I'm sure they'll have wonderful lives with you, or with whoever you adopt them out to!
I was also really worried about that!
I never condone knowingly breeding an animal that would have complications just for the aesthetic, but knowing you guys have the animals' best interests in mind and that they almost certainly wont be bred in the future, I can safely say I love that darker baby spider. Definitely my favourite of the clutch.
They didn't even mean to make them. They absolutely won't breed them.
@@seofra8252 unfortunately we can't be 100% certain their future owners won't breed them if these guys don't keep them. I trust their vetting process but I'm always cynical about these things I'll admit
@@rhysplaysvirtual Do they vet potential buyers?
@@undead_queer i’ve heard them say in past videos they only sell snakes with minor tail kinks/blemishes to non breeders, so i do believe they vet buyers
Omg yes, this! All of it. That darker spider is gorgeous 😍
PLEASE keep us updated about the health of the baby spiders!!! I am really interested to see if they get the neurological problems like the dad.
Yes!!!
They definitely will have the neuro issue. It just depends on severity between animals. Some can have it really bad like topsyy yurvy and some may not show issues at all. But the carry it nonetheless. ❤
They will because it's part of the morph unfortunately, can't have the pattern without the issues
400th like
I now own a banana spider-morph and a banana pastel lemon-splash because of this channel.
No one wanted the spider morph because of it's wobbly head, and I ended up adopting him to give him a good life. I adore your channel and have used it as a base to raise my little babies. I love them so much and thank you for all your help and advice!
that's so awesome of you. the spider morph is so sad. I've seen them at a pet store but I sadly don't have room for them. people used to walk by one and make faces at him. ❤ props to you for giving them an amazing life❤❤❤
i'm glad that only two of the babies are affected by this, and i respect you for acknowledging your mistake and being transparent about how this happened. here's hoping the little ones are healthy and not too wobbly! 🤞🏻🐍💕
❤❤❤
Wobble noodle
@@Lowquailtyimage Woodle Noodle
Wait so I saw that the spider morph babies weren't moving and looked dead. Did they die on their own?
@@Sage_WC no, they're just not moving like how all of them weren't moving when they were moved to their bins
I think a video not only about Spider morphs for ball pythons, but about any and all morphs in the reptile pet trade that can cause problematic health issues or genetics would be seriously helpful! For newbie and experienced reptile owners alike! I dont own snakes myself yet, but for a long while Spider was one of my favorite morphs because i loved the amazing web-like pattern! It wasnt until i watched some of the amazing educational videos from educators similar to Snake Discovery that i learned about the problems that come with Spider morphs. Id never want to willingly encourage the breeding of animals who may be unable to have a fullfilling, happy long life just because i like their aesthetic. Im sure there are perfectly happy, healthy, wibbly wobbly Spiders out there. But the risks seem real! And as someone who wants to, but hasnt yet picked out the perfect noodle friend yet, id greatly appreciate learning about other morphs in other species and reptiles that may cause issues. For me, my pet, and my wallet too. Vet's arent cheap!
I can tell you about one moprh that has a higher risk of issues, but doesn't always produce any. It's the Palmetto morph in corn snakes, basically blue eyed leucistic but with little freckles of color. There tends to be a higher risk of snakes having "bug eyes" aka the eyes bulge out of the skull a bit too much. So, you need a reputable breeder who doesn't breed any corn snake that show "bug eyes"
Thank you! I looked up this morph and goodness theyre pretty! Glad to know more about them too. If i ever see any of these beauties ill know what to look out for there!
@@idiotically-everything
I agree about education! I just bought my first snake ever-a pastel lesser spider-not knowing about the spider morph wobble (newbie here!). I was watching him last night and noticed he moved super strange while exploring his tank. I’ve now done my research, and while I still absolutely love him and will make sure to give him a good happy home, I wish the breeder would have told me about it when I bought him last weekend at the expo.
Pinstripe, Cinnamon, and Champagne are some examples of morphs that have health issues like the Spider morph.
@@idiotically-everything do you know anything about Kenyan sand boa morphs? I’m looking into getting one for me and my kids, we’re thinking of a paradox snow Kenyan sand boa. I know quite a bit about that breed but not that particular morph. It’s just the one that we like. I’ve had a corn snake before and have been around snakes but honestly the different morphs confuse me because there are so many
My condolences for Ed's grandfather passing 🙏 Glad to see that all of the babies made it out of the eggs!
“We themed them as balls!…sports balls, that is-“ GURL I KNEW WHY YOU CORRECTED THAT FOR A SECOND
Why did she?.
@@SkyeWu-t3o u poor sweet child💀💀
@@SkyeWu-t3o😏
Fr tho 😅
@@SkyeWu-t3odo not want to know buddy your too young if you don’t!
As somebody who knows nothing about snakes - or used to know absolutely nothing, until I started watching Snake Discovery - I vote yes on the in depth spider morph video! The egg hatching / whacky color genetics videos is what drew me in, cant get enough of it.
there are a lot videos talking about spider ball pythons if snake discovery doesn't end up doing a video about it. it's definitely a controversal topic
You're like me! I knew squat and hated reptiles but got pulled in by Brian Barczyk. His channel led me here as well as several other very reputable folks. I now realize I was just ignorant to how cool reptiles really are.
The mom is actually a pastel special, not just pastel. There are some specials and special combos among the babies! Look up some pictures. Congrats!
Bump!
bump
What is a pastel special?
Boost
@@EightJane Both pastel and special are incomplete dominant traits that affect the coloration of the animal.
I wanted to share my experience with a spider ball python, which happened almost 8 years ago at my first reptile convention. Initially, I had my heart set on a banana morph ball python, so I visited multiple breeders in search of one. However, it was at that time that I unexpectedly came across a banana spider ball python and instantly fell in love with it.
Despite being an avid viewer of various pet UA-cam channels, I had never come across any information about the potential issues associated with the spider morph. When I purchased the snake, who I now affectionately call Noodle (yes, it's a bit cliché), I wasn't informed about any neurological side effects. Noodle is an absolutely amazing snake, and I wouldn't change my decision to bring him home for anything. However, I believe many first-time snake owners would have been confused or unaware of what they were getting themselves into.
That being said, Noodle does experience a VERY severe wobble and requires a lot of patience and wasted rats/mice during feeding. I just wish breeders were more transparent about these issues because many people may not know how to handle them, and unfortunately, some snakes end up being surrendered as a result.
Overall, it's important for potential snake owners to have all the necessary information about different morphs and their potential implications, so they can make informed decisions and provide the best care possible for their pets.
I'm glad that you were able to educate yourself on it, and willing to deal with his extra needs! The thing that I don't understand is why those breeders put so much effort into breeding these Spiders when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
@@warriormaiden9829 Yeah it does seem weird that they continue to breed them, especially when there seems to be no way to fix the genetic flaw. I mean if the morph was able to be het then maybe there could be something to work with. But if the snake can only be spider or not then I don't see how there could be any way to fix it.
Do they know what causes the neurological disorder
This is a whole essay
I love the name of your snake.
My nickname is Noodles funnily enough.
Ive noticed recently that there are quite a lot of people out there that have a snake called Noodles somewhere in their collection..
I love it. X
I find it very good how they addressed that the blood from the eggs is normal otherwise it could be quite worrying for some people that they weren't doing anything about it
I know you didn't mean to breed spider morphs, and I understand why, but you gotta admire Topsy Turvy's determination. There's something kind of beautiful about him not letting his disability hold him back.
As someone in a wheelchair, I wish I had his confidence.
I rehomed a spider morph from a breeder as he didn't want him, so now he's in my care and living his best life - he's a bit wobbly but he's not letting it affect his life and I love him very much ☺️
@@FreedomAnderson I'm disabled as well. Animals don't let it stop them because they don't know anything different - it doesn't occur to them that they're not like the others. They see an obstacle and they just conquer it, or they don't, and if they don't they just forget about it and go conquer the ones they can without being hard on themselves. Often they end up carving out their own unique niches that way and excelling in those niches. Its about watching for doors opening to them even when others close. They really don't let anything stop them from living their best lives.
Its a valuable lesson and one that I try hard to learn for myself every day.
@@KittenKiki13 I have a spider who doesn't really show her wobble at all unless my husbandry is off or something stresses her out (and even then all she does is tilt her head just a hair to the left). Its actually a bone in the inner ear thats a little larger or somewhat out of place than it should be and it just disrupts their equalibrium, and not a nuerological disorder at all. I can try and find a link to the recent study complete with radio imaging if you'd like.
But I'm glad your giving yours such a good life. 🥰
Agreed
I would love to hear more about spider morphs. I think the banana and the banana pastel are my favs. I'm glad everyone seems to have been born kink free and I guess we'll see how neurologically intact the two little spider beans are. Can we offer up the names of Charlotte and Lucas for the two little spider morph babies? I genuinely hope they aren't too wonkadonk and find safe, happy homes where they can thrive as beloved pets. And I KNOW Emily is not letting that banana pastel go. Pretty sure that's her new baby.
I have a couple of married friends that are Charlotte and Luke. Love the name idea.
If one is female and one is male.😉 I love the references, too!
It was a single video of your baby hognose snakes hatching that took me from terrified of snakes to wanting one of my own! Thanks to you two I have an African Fat-Tailed gecko (named Milton after yours!), a ball python (named Hershey), and we're getting a rosy boa next month (named Skittles)! Thank you for sharing your love of reptiles with the world!!
Love the name skittles for a rosy boa! It’s so funny. I love it.
Silence btw rosey have teath I learnt that picking up my little brother out of it cage because he wanted to hold it and it already bit my mom and dad before
@@Et20220 bro, do you think they don’t know?? Almost all snakes have teeth, the exception being egg eating snakes
@CalliePlayz I didn't mean it like that
@@Et20220 bro.. you know that this person has done research? Everyone does research before even getting a snake!
I shared your channel with a second grader, I work with their reading. They LOVE snakes and dinosaurs. They now tell me about your vids, even though I’ve watched them too. It’s been a way to get them to practice reading. I go to the library and bring reptile books to read. ❤❤❤❤
That's so cute and wholesome
That kid is gonna have an awesome childhood
That's great!! I read a lot of reptile books too at that age ❤
Thank you for addressing the spider morph. Personally, I think it's unethical to intentionally breed that morph, but accidents happen and I do hope you're not too hard on yourself for it - luckily it was just two babies. If you keep one, please keep us updated, it would be interesting to see the issues documented by people who don't try to minimise them defensively.
I think it's great that you have one as an educational animal. Loved the colours in this clutch and would like to hear an update on them in the future.
Plus there are similar morphs such as bamboo that have reduced patterns and lack the neurological issues the spiders and champagnes do.
Snake Discovery is one of the biggest reptile channels on youtube. I would like them to keep one or both of the spiders and keep an unbiased documentation on them as well. People should know about these bad morphs....
Humans already messed up making flat-faced dogs and munchkin cats... this needs to stop. I worry that someone may buy these spider babies in the interest of breeding them. I know Emily said she'd make sure they went to GOOD homes, but people can lie. Or, maybe in years, this good home has to rehome the spider for one reason or another, you just never know. The last thing I want is for their painkiller induced mistake to result in even MORE spider babies, and the only way to guarantee there's no more spiders from these two babies is for them to take responsibility for these two babies and keep them.
It's not like I'm angry or going to cancel snake discovery or anything. It was an understandable mistake, but a mistake should be made right. The only way to truly guarantee these two spider babies don't have more babies in the future is for snake discovery to keep them, unless there's a way to "fix" snakes like we do to cats and dogs lol.
@@midnightsan9917 but even if there weren't similar morphs, it's horrible either way to produce unhealthy animals (we don't even know if they suffer or not) just for a pretty pattern.
@@andreil1313 ?? We know that spiders have the wobble and I agree that its a bad thing but bamboo morphs don't have the wobble and have a similar pattern reduction thing going on.
@@midnightsan9917 Yes I know?
What I meant is that even if there wasn't a similar (healthy) pattern to choose instead of Spiders, Spiders shouldn't be produced anyway. Regardless if there's already something similar or not .
Glad to see they all got big water dishes. I’ve handled this species for 25+ years and I’ve handled thousands of these guys. I can safely say that almost every single one, regardless of the proper humidity being achieved, loved to swim! In fact, they love swimming so much, one of my enrichment activities for this species is actually to seal off the bathroom and secure the tub, fill it with slightly cool water, and add them in with a weighted bin on one end for a dry spot. They absolutely love it. Great for shedding time too. I know a keeper who uses plastic Easter baskets instead of water dishes for them and often times her girl will sleep in the water dish.
Also, they are known escape artists. If they are bored, they will look for trouble. But you can easily amuse them with unique hides, places to climb, and... get this... large cat toys. Like the geometric balls or a cardboard scratch board, which can be leaned against a wall and provide a climb, rough surface, and hide underneath it.
You sound like you know so much! The cat toy thing is definetely a cool idea, Ill probably try it out myself. But what Im wondering is the water part. I have a ball python and he dispises getting wet. He only ever drinks from it or like well, falls in his bowl while climbing. Ive never seen him volunatarly soak and his terrarium is in my room so I probably would have noticed. So I wanted to ask, how specifically do you give them the water. Maybe im doing something wrong here.
@@lady_apocalypse178 maybe your guy’s the odd one out for water loving? Don’t try to force something by adding more of what he dislikes because you read a comment on UA-cam lol
@@lady_apocalypse178 there's always an odd one lol
but maybe the water is too cold, make sure it's in a warm spot and your warm side is hot enough, if it's not an issue try using the bathtub with even warmer (but not hot) water with a dry spot like how op does and see if he changes his mind.
If not I guess you just got a little waterphobic noodle🤷🏻♀️
@@lady_apocalypse178 mine used to have a big water dish and never used it to soak, either. He prefers a humid hide over swimming, but still appreciates the occasional spa day when he makes a huge mess of his enclosure. Sometimes I'm worried he will connect the dots as he's happily relaxing in the sink and will make more work for me intentionally. 😛 But he also loves a 70F ambient temp with a 85F hot spot. They're funny little critters with different personalities and we sometimes get a weird one.
Do you want a kitten
The babies all lined up next to each other makes it look like momma was running out of ink!~
Replace ink cartridge now.
Out of blue ink.
@@Mr_BrokenKeyboard Need black ink
? What does that mean?
@@karynzimmermann3705 when a printer runs low on ink, the print outs get more and more faded. The puppies look like they have less and less color.
im so emotionally invested in the spider babies !! would love to hear more about them !!
I’d really love to hear more about the spider morph! I feel like fully understanding what this morph can do and the extent of neurological issues they can have would be really fascinating to learn!
Hiya! I own three spider complex snakes: 2 spiders, and 1 hidden gene woma which is allelic with the spider gene. Personally, my snakes are actually fine with only one of them showing a slight head tilt when my husbandry is off or when she is startled by something. There are a few cases in which the wobble is as pronounced as the spider in this video, but mine eat well and behave like normal ball pythons - just my experience.
The wobble is not actually caused by a neurological defect, but an inner ear one - over 20 years ago I had heard that their lower jaws were connected to their inner ears and that they "hear" vibrations picked up by their lower jaws resting on the ground, from MRI's it looks as though there is some merit to that rumor and it wouldn't surprise me if its true because our "hearing" is also vibrational despite "sound" being delivered via the outer ear. A recent study has been completed in which it was discovered through MRI imaging that the sacculus and semicircular canal in their inner ears are misshapen, resulting in some spider complex animals having issues with equilibrium. If you'd like, I can try to link you to the study (sometimes youtube doesn't allow that but I can at least dig it up and give you the title)?
You can find out a lot from nerd their the ones who originally discovered the breed
Agreed! Also, I want to know more about how others are trying to improve the morf
@@katydidd6321 i would love to read the study about this!
@@madamslothyou can’t improve the morph. It can’t be bred out.
It would be good if you guys did a video discussing the spider as big youtubers, but I hope you are honest about the facts. The wobble has been found (in spiders) to be an ear canal malformation, not a neurological issue, first off. Spider morph has been banned in some groups for a good reason. There's no evidence the wobble can be "bred out" and it's been bred for like >20 years at this point, so I frankly do not trust breeders who intentionally breed these. Not only spider but Champagne, Woma, HGW and Super Spotnose (Powerball) have wobbles. Super Spider, Super Champagne, Super Woma, Super HGW and combinations of those genes (eg Champagne + spider) cause stillborns.
There are other problem morphs as well: Super Lesser causing bug eyes, "White Demon" (albino super lesser and other variations on albino + BEL) causing small eyes, duckbills, high kink rates. I did a morph guide and did some research into these various morphs and into the scientific literature. I don't see how anyone can see breeding these (intentionally) as ethical. I also follow snake rescuers who get snakes who wobble worse with old age because the owner listened to the breeder who said "this baby doesn't wobble" and then years later it developed the wobble.
I hope that the babies in this clutch do well, though! It is not their fault they are spiders, ofc, and it was just an accident. In the grand scheme of things I'm sure you have the capability + experience to take care of them if they do wobble badly.
I really agree! This is a super useful guide/comment- thank you!
I think it’s important for them to talk abt it as large UA-camrs and breeders
And they may not even know everything you’ve put here since this is their first Ball python clutch!
Totally agree! I'm still doing my research but the more I learn, the more I can't comprehend how people continue to breed these morphs just because they look pretty. I've noticed on MorphMarket that there is a warning for morphs that might have wobbles (I noticed specifically for the woma because I didn't know they had the wobble)
I didn't know about all these morphs that had problems, I feel bad for everyone expect the breeders who know
Do you happen to have a link for the source material about the ear canal malformation study/info?
^^^^ I would like to read that too!
That spider pastel (bumblebee, I believe you said) is gorgeous! I am with you 100% that health concerns should never be bred for the sake of appearance. Regardless of the species, pets are family, not ornaments, and deserve a level of respect and care.
Thank you for speaking up, even in passing, about problem morphs. This is certainly an issue potential pet owners need to be aware of.
Plus bamboo morphs exist and present pretty similarly. They don't have neurological issues so personally it's not even worth aesthetics anymore
The "How this happened" explanation has me cracking up😂
You can greatly reduce the wobble by reducing their stress. We moved our spider from a glass tank to a tub. And we stopped handling him as much and took our time to get him super comfortable. His wobble almost went completely away.
Yup, I have three and one of them only shows a mild head tilt when my husbandry is off or when something startles her.
Having said that, I'm sure Ed and Emily's husbandry is spot-on, so Topsy Turvy's case is pretty extreme.
@@katydidd6321 Also, it's worth mentioning that wobble can have different presentations and it's a paradoxical trait, so you don't get strictly Mendelian inheritance patterns. Two ultra-low-wobble Spider morphs can produce an EXTREMELY wobbly baby, and vice versa. Generally speaking, high-wobble snakes struggle with things like feeding, though, so the trend is towards high-wobble babies not surviving for long.
@@Abigail-hu5wf Yes, that is true.
However, there are other perspectives on this. I come from a long family history of dog and horse breeders and I can say for sure that a lot of good work has been done to breed out genetic issues with those animals. A *lot*. Its very much downplayed and ethical breeders are all but forgotten because there's so much press focused on unethical breeders (as there should be) and of the success rates that breeders have enjoyed in breeding out defects - yes, I am of course aware that there are unscrupulous dog and horse breeders out there, but they get a reputation very quickly and are weeded out.
If its possible to breed out defects in dogs and horses, then why shouldn't we try to breed healthier bp morphs (spider is not the only morph that has issues but its the only one that gets people so worked up which is odd to me)? Is there something that I'm not aware of going on with reptile genetics thats different from mammal genetics?
On a side note: I don't actually breed my spiders, so there is no worry about this on my end of things. I'm simply curious because I've been keeping pet reptiles (mostly snakes including ball pythons) for probably about 20 years give or take, and I'm fascinated by the differences between the two groups.
yep. we had bought a normal at an expo and then when we were ready for a second, we stumbled upon a spider morph rescue. while our (eventually 2) snake(s) were in glass tanks, he was in a tub and was minimally handled, usually only to check for stuck shed/weight/and moving him to clean the tub. it helped his wobble SO much
@Katy Didd ..... you are right on about the breeding. I'm a retired dog breeder. I have been training and showing dogs for 48 yrs. I mentored with a breeder who had been breeding for over 25 years. After years of learning from her, she helped me get set up, gave me a couple female pups and teens as a co/owner . I raised, trained, xrayed and dna tested them.
With the DNA tests that are available and if breeders would stop focusing on mass production, take their time to study the bloodlines and don't breed something that isn't up to breeding standards, just because they bought it, theyhavea goodchanceof havinghealthy pups. .. Have a standard and stick to it no matter what. Don't ever give in to temptation and breed an animal that isn't the quality in health or temperament that is the model of the standard.
It sucks to take a hit on an animal you planned on breeding and couldn'tbecause it carrieda gene you didnt want, but in the long run, your reputation and buyer loyalty is important. To have that, you have to breed only healthy animals. You have to keep in your head that your goal is to better the breed, not get rich. You get enjoyment from the pups and your dogs. Plan on working your butt off for puppy breath kisses.
We bred Imported German Shepherds. Since German Shepherds have a reputation for having so many health and sometimes temperament problems, we couldn't budge on our beliefs.
I knew of people in my state that would run adds on Craigslist or asking someone at the dog park (eww) for stud service. They weren't checking hips/elbows, doing any DNA tests, having blood testing for STD's before natural breeding. All they care about is if the other dog was registered with AKC. Big deal!!! These people weren't wormings pups, doing vet checks or vaccinations, screening buyers. They just want to make money. They breed every cycle. So mom is completely worn out and unhealthy. They aren't mass production puppy mills, they are crappy back yard breeder. They buy the cheapest dog food, nothing is clean and you will be sorry you bought that pup because it will cost you in vet bills.
Then there are people like one classroom mom. "I want my kids to experience puppies being born". The kids got grossed out, she had no idea what she was doing, didn't realize how messy pups get and ended up taking 3 pups to the shelter. Jeeze. I warned her not to breed her dog. Later I tried to give her help just so the pups would stay healthy but she refused to listen. These are also the type of people that start getting rid of pups at 4-5 weeks old because it's to much work or the pups are to loud.
We actually have a state law that says pup have to be with mom until they are 8 wks old and just like livestock, if any cross state lines, they need a Department of Agriculture health certificate from a certified veterinarian. But they don't get inspected so they break these laws. They would be in trouble if the inspector showed up!!!😮
This country already has a puppy mill problem but the not very smart backyard breeder just adds to it.
I had haters get after me because I was a breeder but I felt that people deserved the opportunity to have a dog and know that it was healthy and had a sound temperament.
I tried to look up Banana Pastel spider ball pythons and it seems they may be referred to "Banana Queen Bee" which is adorable.
Banana for the yellow, Queen for Pastel, and Bee for the spider part. Which makes it even cuter the mom's name is honey. (:
Oh dats wut the spooder had to do with da snek-
@@Left-2-Get-Toastthis is the most embarrassing thing I’ve ever read
It isn’t 2020 anymore
@@solis7668 Wrong reply? I am talking about a snake's coat pattern/color name possibility associated with the snake in this video.. nothing year related.
@@DubstequtieI was talking to the person using “snek” and “spooder” did you not see me @‘ing them?
Thank you for talking about the spider morph and its associated neurological issues. I've disliked the idea of breeding it since I first heard about it - it seems a lot like the issues you find in certain dog breeds that severely impact their quality of life (e.g. pugs and their deformed faces). It's highly unethical to deliberately breed an animal that's going to suffer, especially if the only reason to do it is cosmetic.
Exactly! What I don't understand is why those breeders put so much effort into breeding these Spiders when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
@@warriormaiden9829 because before the others morph even normal ball python would just die upon arrival or after been hatch .it took years to be able to have viable ball python that last 30 years + instead of a couple months! Really bad case of any deformation is culled out. what you see on UA-cam is people adopting spider that should have been cull but backyard breeder doesn't care and still sold the animal .it could be also cause by bad care that manifest the wobble on healthy spider! Same for colubrid albino would have just die but breeder keep breeding healthier and better specimen and now they are 100% fine. Hopefully one day we will find a cure to wobble!
With this morph it's even worse than with dogs. With dogs you can have all breeds without health issue because the issue comes from overbreeding not the breed itself, but with those snakes it's not overbreeding. All snakes with this morph will have that problem.
@Schrödingers Katze At this point, even pugs from reputable breeders have trouble breathing because of their smashed faces. It's become an inherent trait of the breed. I get that the spider gene can't be bred out while that smashed face of pugs can, but both issues can be avoided by not breeding for that specific trait.
@@schrodingerskatze4308I mean for dogs, it's been so long it's kind of at the point where the issues have been bred into a new morph that is now accepted as part of the breed. So... Let's not do that here 😂
One thing I love about this channel is you admit to your mistakes you could've said nothing about the thiner stripes but you admit to your mistakes and I love you for that❤
Really happy to hear you choose to not breed for the spider morph! Definitely encouraging to see UA-cam reptile breeders choosing the health of their snakes, over their look.
Tbh about the look i like the pastel and the pastel banana ones are the best
Healthy snakes look the best!
I think, as one of the largest reptile channels on UA-cam it would be really important for you guys to make a video on the discussion of Spider morphs- but also other Neuro-issue causing morphs!
They did have one when it was revealed that a certain reptile channel was purposefully breeding spider ball pythons. Many other reptile UA-cam channels made videos denouncing the practice and so did Snake Discovery but their video was deleted, I assume they didn't want to seem controversial.
Emily: “And since these are Ball pythons, our clutch theme is balls!”
*realizes*
Emily: “SPORTS balls, that is”
0:35 the banana snake: I AM NOT PAYING CHILD SUPPORT 😂
Hey, they’re not even his😂
When I first found this channel I looked to find your opinion on spiders, I love hearing your acknowledge the problem and I think a full video on the morph and any complexities of the issue would be really beneficial information to have in the hobby scene. You two are some of the best educators I've ever seen
I agree and would appreciate a video a ton. I rescued a spider ball python and he’s 7 and he incredibly wobbly:( I feel so bad for him and wanna know how to give him the best quality of life
@@candaceshelton1898 try wickens wicked reptiles, i think adam might have a video on them since he has a spider that doesnt have much of a wobble. Their care does very though depending on how severe the wobble is, so id keep things that he could slam his head into out of his cage and use thin plastic hides
While I can see why so many people love the ball python morphs, I have to say - I actually prefer the normals. The color variations are indeed striking, and very pretty, but to my eyes there's just something charming about the wild-type coloration. Like it's some sort of wild fruit you could go out and pick off a tree. I like that.
I'm like that with wild type corns and milk snakes. I don't want albinos or anything, just give me those beautiful warm colors!
I have to agree. Of the many many ball pythons I’ve had over the years, three stand out. Jake, a normal; Ari, a normal; and Evan, a Pastel Pinstripe (Lemonblast). Lemonblast is my favorite color morph but normals are pretty beautiful.
I agree! The morphs are gorgeous and I'd love to have one someday, but I have 2 female normals (Tonks and Ana Gwyn) and I think they're both gorgeous. Just classy and classic.
Yeah from all of the morphs shown in this video, the normal is my favorite. Pastel is close 2nd.
I thought at first that maybe the morph might've been hidden in the parents' genes since they were rescues, but it's good that you know how the mistake happened at least! Topsy Turvy might be wobbly but he's definitely got the right moves to get the lady asap 😂 It's a shame it causes neurological problems, they look really beautiful.
Spider is a dominant gene so it can’t be “hidden” in genetics.
Anyone curious about the spider debate I always point them to Clint’s Reptiles video and Kevin McCurley’s video on it. He developed the gene and adores his animals, and Clint is a zoologist and very ethical keeper. They do t have an issue with the coloration and I do t really either they’re super cute
There are people working on breeding the neurological disorder out of the snake, probably kevin mccurly now that i think about it. So hopefully one day we can have spiders that dont have the wobble so we can have a beautiful morph without the problems it has
@@annikkirahko6714 Kevin made money from them, and Clint regularly shares false or outdated information in his videos. Neither are reputable in this topic.
topsy turvy and the hottie he pulled by being neurologically impaired
My son has my two grandsnakes: Asterion a Bull Snake and Morpheus a Sumatran Blood Python. I love them so much! Morpheus is a great cuddle buddy to hang out on the sofa. I love watching new babies come from their eggs and how interesting the patterns can be. I hope that the spider guys are okay. They are SO adorable. Maybe Ball Python got their name from the fact that they stay in a ball?
Fun fact: my snake also has the spider morph and I have always been wondering why he is always having his head go a little crazy. Happy I learned about the spider morph 😁, thank you guys!
TBH, this post is super sad because it shows that despite this issue going nuclear a few years ago with basically every third snake channel coming out as for or against the ban of their sale in UK Reptile Expos, people are still getting these snakes with no idea there's something *seriously* wrong with them. Take good care of them, and pay attention for things like them falling upside down while moving or accidentally biting themselves while trying to eat - that one has happened to people with relatively minor wobble and generally requires your manual intervention to get them to stop, because they think their food is fighting them and just bite down harder and harder. Soft substrate and low climbing branches are a must.
This comment is disappointing. Do your research before getting a snake
@@candycane11103 Some people could have been given the snake by someone else, and even in the year I've been researching ball pythons in preperation of getting one hopefully in a few months I only learned about spiders from this video when I first saw it a few months ago.
I had SEEN the morph at reptile cons, but had never known about anything attached to the morph. People's first thought when getting a snake isn't normally "gee I wonder what morphs are lethal or can cause severe neurological issues in the snake !!!!!", its about how to care for them, habitat needs and size, size of the snake, diet, bonding, ect.
Show some kindness. It's very easy to simple never find out or never be informed about these kinds of things unless you are specifically looking for them.
@@candycane11103 I have been researching snakes for 8 years, even I didn't know about this disability attached to the morph. Sometimes you just don't stumble upon an information no matter for how long you learn.
I knew about this morph's problem due to a pokemon analysis video
Thank you for addressing the spider morph issues and how important it is to your heritage lines that you be careful when breeding. I'm glad they all hatched healthy and I hope they're able to have good lives.
Considering that ball pythons are some of the longest bred in captivity, it’s not surprising that they have so much more variety in morphs than many other species. I can’t wait to see what other species develop through breeding over the years
It worries me tho bc even here ppl wanna "work on the wobble" and comparing it to dogs and cats... We breed dogs and cats too look a certain way and nobody cares that that poor pug is going to have breathing issues, or that Persian cat has a cleft palate bc of his breed standard smushed face, or that Scottish fold will have painful joint issues, or that corgi is going to have hip and spine issues. Like we just accept that that's part of the breed bc "well it's cute, and it's here already, this one needs a home!"
I love how honest these two are. Nothing but respect for these amazing crestores!
I ended up with a clutch of 4 ball python eggs by accident, thinking both my snakes were girls!!
Turns out my piebald is a male! Normal female. Laid just a few days ago!
Anyways, looking forward to my first clutch, good luck guys with the baby spiders! I would love to have updates on their condition!
I'm pretty sure they would have hatched by now, I wonder what happened to them
@@lilysamvelian9970im sure they have hatched by now,they just didnt put an update there
@@lilysamvelian9970the eggs sadly didn't make it, they all went bad one by one over the first 12ish days
This is the first clutch of baby ball pythons I have ever seen and the spider morph babies were not moving at all I thought they were expired. So happy to know all 10 made it out of the eggs alive ❤❤❤❤
Haha I did too momentarily forgetting why they're called ball pythons I just saw spider morphs not moving and was like oh no was it so severe that they expired soon after coming out of the egg
😅 nope just ball pythons being little ball pythons
Same! I thought it was gonna be "wanna talk about these two" "yeah they didn't make it😭" and instead it was "they are all healthy so far but we have to watch them and see"
Here's to hoping that those spider babies make it through and with either minimal neurological issues or none (if possible) theyre so beautiful
All spiders have neurological issues, and even if they don't present right away, they'll develop eventually.
@@Ostara2024They don’t have neuro issues, it’s physiological. The “wobble” comes from a inner ear bone issues.
If you look at when I posted my reply, it was right around the time when that was discovered. At the time I posted my reply, it was thought to be neuro issues.@@acrylicabyss
@@acrylicabyss Wobble syndrome is a neurological disease, please do not spread misinformation..
The joy you have is beautiful to see!!!
Well, hey, an unfortunate but honest mistake!
I hope that the two spider babies are able to have a long life without too many complications!
Don't worry about the spider morph accident too much, mistakes happen, just make sure this does not repeat itself. I also think a dedicated spider morph video would be a good idea since you guys have a huge audience, lots of the audience is on the younger side too I think and it is very important to use the reach you have here to educate people on something that is a huge ethical issue.
I haven’t been able to put my finger on why I enjoy these videos so much more than other snake content creators until today. Emily and Ed talk for their animals like my husband and I do and I’m the science educator and my husband is the tech guy. These videos are so fun.
17:59 idk why but her holding them all makes me so happy😭
As someone that has been on Oxycodone (I was on it for 3 months when I was 16 due to severe back pain while it was being researched. It is actually neurological so after 3 months I was put on appropriate medication) I don't remember ANYTHING from that time and refuse to go on it again unless needed. Oxycodone is insanely strong and I really command Emily for being able to work on that medication!
Dude I wish my body reacted like that to Oxycodone. I have fibromyalgia, Ehlers danlos syndrome, and frequently get kidney stones (more painful than child birth) and on a drip at the hospital for it it isn’t enough to knock out all that pain and doesn’t make me that loopy, I’m 20
@Emmett Howell I'm 22 now (23rd year), and I still remember feeling the pain, but just being so out of it that I was barely ever continuous. I did just recently get diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and severe hypermobility but the back pain is due to that as well as an injury as a child.
I never want oxygen again, morphine also doesn't work for me so it can be a pain to get proper pain medications when I'm in a hospital as I'm not allowed to jave any NSAIDS either.
@@blairberry6257 I have that kind of reaction to morphine, plus open and close eyed hallucinations. I can’t have NSAIDS either and even so it’s like water to me . Typically I’m given hydromorphone (dilaudid) in hospitals and hydrocodone/acetaminophen (Vicodin) for outpatient stuff but 3 times daily take Tizanidine, but none fully get rid of my pain but make it more manageable/bearable. I hope you are doing as well as you can with managing your pain
Oxy is as far as I know a morphin derevation and highly addicting. Now, I know pain after an operation sucks - badly! I had two in the last 12 months and even in fairly painful areas with multiple weeks healing time each. It is doable on Ibuprofin with some additional metamizol in case for the worst days.
If possible and with your doctors opinion given, always try to go for something non addicting. So many people get tied to the drugs and that rabbit hole is one risky slippery slide.
@@emmetthowell899 I'm sorry that you are saddeld with all that. I hope you will find a pain managment therapy that works for you. Concerning the Oxy: like all meds the body sadly gets used to it and it becomes less effectiv over time. I hope you have a trustworthy physician who can look into alterntivs for treatment - be it another type of drug or some regime that might help lessen the pain.
If I'm not mistaken EDS is a form of hypermobility - and I am in the same boat there at now age 28. Last year I was mostly immobile because of another acute issue not tyied to the hypermobility. But whilst I don't know your exact pain I do feel you and feel for you. My leg joints are basically all dead and destabilze way to quick at any second. The amount of times when walking normally becomes falling on my face with strechtched or ripped tendons is not funny anymore. Currently working on building up muscles in hope that does something. I am not saying that sports is the cure all. But not doing sports certainly worsend my stability.
Best of luck to you!
Please do an updated meet all our snakes video! It'd be so interesting to see who you all still have vs your newer snakes 🐍
Commenting to give you a boost. I hope they respond, or at least make the video
@Don't Read My Profile Picture SHUSH
Might have to be a multi parter but that just means more Snakes Discovery videos!
Boost
I love that they give a disclaimer for new audiences about the blood, always looking forward to hearing it in every cutting video haha
"That's the baby snake water"
Same! Been watching for 3-4 years now, and I'm sitting on tenterhooks until they say it. It's kind of become a stamp of their hatching videos, and I've noticed a couple other responsible YT breeders picking it up. I hope it sticks around and spreads!
I love how they kept prioritizing the health over everything else. Proud to find this channel. 🙏
I'd definitely love a video on the spider gene. It is our duty as consumers and breeders to be educated about how genetics can effect the over all quality of life of the animals we wish to care for. Obviously, breeders have more responsibility as they are trusted to be educated on this topic already, but as consumers we drive the market for certain morphs. A video by you guys would educate a lot of us hobbyists who would otherwise not know.
True, if people stop buying them, breeders won't produce them anymore. I once asked a breeder why was he producing spiders, the answer was "because they sell". So there's that..
I would love to see some follow up videos on the spider morph babies! I’m so curious how they will do as they grow up! I hope they are happy and healthy despite neurological issues
This
Bump bump this comment!
As a ball python owner, I can confirm they are a living ball.
Ball Python: I Am ball! I live as ball!
I absolutely LOVE this comment
Golf time!
383rd like
*Yas dis was necessary*
✨💅👁👄👁💅✨
@@Left-2-Get-Toast I was the last three >:3
I love the banana pastel spider morph. ITS REALLY CUTE AND PRETTY OK!?
18:09 Just the joy in your face as you have both your hands full of your beloved snakes is so lovely to see! I love to see people being so enthusiastic about the work that they do, as you are. I'm sure that you have inspired so many children when you go out to schools and show them your snakes and other animals. I'm sure it would make the children more kind towards wildlife animals they encounter, and maybe some of the kids will be inspired to go into a career which involves looking after animals. Bravo!
I would love learning more about the spider morph. Hopefully the two can be an extension to Topsy Turvy's lessons about the genes and may help students and others learn, understand, and form their own opinion on breeding the morph. I hope that all the snakes find good homes and healthy lives.
11:48 - Here is the answer to the fear-inducing headline and description! Two of the 10 babies are spider-morph, which causes neurological issues along with the pattern change. I definitely want to see a video explaining all about it, cuz all I know is the head-wobble, I'd love to see the details laid out in educational format!
They’re so cute! I loved when you plopped them in their own little bins.
Banana is also my favorite morph, and I have a banana pastave (pastel/mohave) so I definitely loved seeing those banana pastel babies. They remind me of when my guy was just so teeny tiny. He's 2 and just starting to loose his baby colors but really not much, that pastel gene is really a miracle color preserver lol.
You do realise that mom is not banana or the baby they were not sure of the dad could have done the thing how we were made on some other snake dummy🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇 i like snakes i like dogs i like cats i like bunnys
Thank you for specifying that the spider morph only shows up as a direct result of a spider pairing, and babies can’t be “het spider.” Until you said that I was wondering if it was possible that Honey & Banana Bread (being rescues) possibly carried a het spider gene, rather than Topsy contributing genetically to a few babies in the clutch.
It would have bugged the heck out of me if I didn’t know the answer 😂 Banana pastels are my ultimate favorite morph….I do have a deep appreciation for anything axanthic, and who doesn’t love a pied? Blue eyed leucistics have grown on me, too. Banana pastels though, oh man, amazing.
given topsy turvy's own visible genetics i can't say for certain banana bread fathered any kids
topsy might've fathered them all and just rolled 2 spiders in the whole clutch, wouldn't be the first snake discovery clutch to pull weird odds and the genetic lottery
@@prcervi spider is a dominant trait so all the babies would have been spider if they were all Topsy's babies.
@@midnightsan9917 Super Spider (2 copies of the gene) is a lethal combo, so far as has been determined. So any living Spider only has 1 copy of the Spider gene. This means that while it shows in any who inherent the gene, there's only a 50/50 chance for it to pass, because the Spider parent still has the normal non-Spider gene as well (one copy of each).
"Dominant" only means it requires just one copy for full expression. It does not mean that it magically results in an unpaired allele (which, by the way, would result in silencing of the allele if it were unpaired, rather than a guarantee of passing onto offspring). "Co-dominant" refers to expression being only partial if there is just one copy.
@@midnightsan9917 it's a co dominate gene, if it's there it'll show but if it isn't there doesn't mean the parent wasn't
@@midnightsan9917 Topsy only has one copy of the spider gene, so it's 50-50 whether it's passed on.
Snakes who inherit two copies of the gene don't even survive to hatch.
I loved the painkiller joke at the end of the video! I'm watching from my hospital recovery room after a surgery, and I can absolutely see mixing up animals!
I also really appreciate Emily's and Ed's honesty when they mess up, and show the channel that it's also a normal part of life and reptile keeping.
I can understand your point with the spider gene, but damn, those two are freaking gorgeous. I am really glad they are here and we got to see them, even if it wasnt planned. Hope they are living their best life right now.
I would love to see a video about further explaining the spider morph and your thoughts and feelings on them! I appreciate your honestly and i have a lot of respect for you guys for choosing not to breed them (intentionally!) 💖
I'm glad you're transparent about the spider morph. To me, a sign of a good animal breeder is someone who takes responsibilty for the animal babies they bring into this world, regardless of making an accident. We're all human after all.
I don't know much about snakes and I think the pastel-spider is very pretty, but I do own some pets and I pick breeders who priortise health and character over looks anytime.
Love that the ball pythons are so unique compared to your usual breeds, my sister bought a banana ball python from the pet store and they call anything not the normal "fancy"
In animals 'fancy' is usually accepted to refer to 'pet' So I think it refers to how morphs are for the pet trade rather than the more common meaning of fancy.
My favorite one out of all of the clutch is the spider pastel, I think he/she is BEAUTIFUL
I appreciate your transparency on your mistake and I hope they go to good homes. It seems like you don't pull punches when it comes to the spider morph which is refreshing. I see too many creators who ride the fence and won't speak their mind. It would be cool to see you guys make a whole video on spider.
Absolutely. My heart dropped when I saw those two and realized what they were. Was relieved to hear it was an accident, and kinda chuckled at their admonition to stay off of pain killers while handling snakes. The thing that I don't understand is why those that breed Spiders put so much effort into breeding them when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
Its possible they might keep them just incase someone tries to sell them for breeding or breed them.
@@warriormaiden9829 Are you replying the exact same thing on every single comment that mentions the spider morph
@@nonamebxtch Not every single one, but a decent number of them. Part of it is an attempt to spark discussion on the subject (as I enjoy seeing other's viewpoints), but part of it is also trying to make people aware of an alternative pattern to Spider. Part of phasing out Spider is finding something else to replace it, and that's not going to happen if people don't know it exists.
I'm glad you spoke about the spider morph. Those snakes do have a beautiful pattern and I can understand why people find them so pretty, but it is good to educate people about patterns that come with health conditions. I didn't even know that was a common issue with that morph before this video.
I thought you guys should know that today I was able to relay a small amount of snake knowledge today because of your content. I work in a small animal clinic in Newfoundland, and we do no work with snakes. But someone with a Ball Python called with a concern. I was able to make one small suggestion because of what I've learned from you. ❤❤
I love the bumblebee morph so it’s very unfortunate that it does contain spider. The breeding facility I work at is currently phasing out spider due to their physiological issues (inner ear issues)
With you guys being the only snake UA-camrs I watch, I'm so used to the bullsnakes and Hognoses that the chonk and different shape of the Ball pythons caught me by suprise. And just how still they are! Staying curled up in the ball, not hissing and being sassy and trying to escape, so different! They are so cute tho, and I love all the colours. With this Channel being my only insight into the snake world, I don't know anything about the different Ball Python months, so it would be interesting to see a video explaining the issues with the spider morph.
Congratulations on the new additions! And my condolences on Ed's grandfather's passing.
The pastel-spider combo is so pretty with the ink splotch pattern, and it would probably be my favorite if it weren't for the issues with the morph. On one side it would be amazing to breed out the issues, but at the same time, that means breeding more spider morphs in the first place
Of the normal babies, the pastel with the orange fade is my fav. I'm weak for high contrast, and yellow+orange on black? It's just a combo meant to be stunning
I appreciate the fact you realize the issues with the spider morph some ignore it for aesthetics
I don't think it's possible to breed out the wobble from the spider, nor is it possible to "reduce" the wobble through breeding. The allele that causes the spider morph is inherently tied to the wobble, which can get better or worse almost at random and can cause developmental issues regardless. Obviously a spider ball in a loving, caring environment will likely do better than one kept in a bad one, but the wobble will still be there no matter what. It's been tried countless times before with no progress, it's best to let the spider die out as a morph and keep the ones that currently exist in as loving an environment as possible.
@@vulturesalesman Agreed. It's like the double Overo gene dropping Lethal White Syndrome (LWS) foals. Equine color genetic testing has existed for a while, and the APHA requires all registered stallions to be tested before being bred so Overo mares can be avoided. Don't get me wrong, accidents happen, but once an LWS foal has been identified, it's euthanized so the foal doesn't suffer the torture of a ruptured bowel or blood poisoning on their way to their inevitable death (no LWS foal has lived longer than 3 days, even with attempted treatment).
What I don't understand is why those breeders put so much effort into breeding these Spiders when it would be in their better interests to breed for a morph that looks similar, but without the problems. If I recall correctly, the Bamboo morph presents very similar, yet there's not a single wobble among them. Why defend the unethical production of them, when they could simply switch what they are producing?
@@idiotically-everything
if we would have done that to every ball python/colubrid, we would of not have ball python at all! be happy that people are still trying to heal wobble and trying to find a cure for it, it not just breed for the jest of it like you claim!You think we are all heartless and money hungry!? These animals back in the day were just dying after less than 1 year and it was a normal ball python! Breeder will figure it out with vets ect.
@@vulturesalesman It was mostly a comment reffering to what they mentioned in the video; that some were trying to find a way to keep the pattern without the neurological issues. I don't have any more knowledge on that subject myself
I love the bananas and that banana pastel! I truly appreciate all the work you do with herp family!
I'm happy these spider babies were born at snake discovery. We know they'll be well taken care of.
I got really into researching spider morphs a few years ago, and while I'm not an expert by any sense of the word, I have noticed some issues with how it's addressed on youtube. Some of the bigger snake/reptile accounts that showcase spider morphs give blatant misinformation or downplay the severity of just how bad the neurological problems can get and it's really disheartening. Thank you for taking the time to make your stance on it, and I would love an in depth video about them! You can never have too much information :))
I think a video on different morphs you don't support breeding for would be really interesting! It doesn't have to be a video specifically on the spider morph.
Also so glad they all came out!!!! They're so cute and this is such an exciting video to see finally!!!! 🩷
Agreed! Would love to have one on each species they know, rather than all species being in the same video. A bit more work, but would be well worth it for ease of education.
I love all the morphs you can get with Bob pythons they are so cool! I hope you will continue to breed these animals. They are so beautiful. I’m still a little scared of snakes, but watching these videos has made me less scared of them! I love how much you love your animals.❤❤❤
My sincere condolences to Ed and his family.
RIP Ed’s grandpa
It’s very interesting to know the spider morph is dominant and thus will visibly show up and I’m happy that y’all included that information.
Going from the normal morph to the pastel, the banana and the pastel banana... it's like the printer ran out of dark ink XD
I looove ball pythons!!!
They are practically biracial animal kingdom! Beautiful display of variety of colors! Love color and mystery when it comes to genetics!! Lucky!
I member when Ed and Emily used to be like "meh, ball python breeding 🙄" and now they're like "we get it" 😂❤