Great overview. my all-time favorite component is my onyx hub. The smooth, instant engagement plus the silent action is worth any price or weight. I love my wheel you built for me with the custom wheel builder. You guys rock.
@@hardtailparty was it an early or late Vesper? I saw lot's of issues with early production, but supposedly those are fixed. Do you notice the "Sponginess" others talk about?
I just got the SuperBoost Vesper for my Pivot Switchblade. It's def a game changer. I also purchased the 3rd arm upgrade so I can adjust my suspension without taking my hands off the grips.
@@NicholasDeNardin-dp6juput 5000 hard miles on them without any service before my rear hub blew up. Onyx said it shouldn’t have happened and sent me all new internals for free. It’s been going great for another few thousand miles. Amazing hubs and company!
I9 Hydras baby.... they call me and me and my friend with hydras the buzzin bees lol hubs are AMAZING .. who wants silent hubs??? thats like having a quiet Hot rod ...Hmmmmmmm nahhh not a fan.. besides is easier to pass slower riders when they hear u coming they usually know to pull over :) for the most part lol
Great vid. It's the simple things like being able to show the weight difference / technological design improvements between v1 and v2. Would love to see you guys do a comparison of the Onyx Vesper vs the Project 321 (silent) 😁😁😁😁
Man, I really wanted onyx hubs when I built my wheel set and I didn't really care about weight as I just wanted quiet/silent , but the price was just a bit over my budget. I opted for Project 321 hubs instead with the quiet/high engagement pawl option and have been very pleased with them. Maybe next wheel set I can allocate funds for the onyx.
C'est la vie! At the end of the day, the only functional difference is weight, and that you have ceramic bearings vs the steel ones on these. Thanks for watching and shopping with us! Dan at Fanatik
Anyone else have a bad experience with the ceramic bearings wearing out quickly on the OG hubs? Loved them otherwise so I’m glad to hear they went to a steel bearing this time around.
Ceramic bearings are not so good for most mountain bike apllications. With any ceramic bearing, even the crazy expensive ones, impact loading will cause damage and possibly failure. Cheap ceramic bearings are also probably less round that decent steel bearings so do have more drag. Stainless are not necessarily better than a decent bearing steel either - again it's a roundness issue. They might just be slightly easier to look after. Personally a top end steel bearing, with actual bearing steel balls, a decent grease and some preventative maintenance delivers much better results than stainless or ceramics. Cheaper too. People just fall for the marketing hype with the others and the manufacturers milk that. There are probably 2 bearing companies worth using and it's worth going for their top end steel bearings. Enduro isn't one of them btw!
FYI, you might need 2x 20mm cone wrenches for new purchases since these can sometimes be sold without the preload set. 2nd FYI: you need externally splined locknuts on Shimano centerlock rotors on 12MM TA. Also Onyx must be swamped right now, website not updated with description or any details, minimalist slow replies via email tech questions.
@@FanatikBikeCo Do you happen to know if its normal to set the snug preload in dropouts but then when removed from dropouts the preload suddenly feels very loose with lots of wiggle room. I would have assumed wheel play while in / out of dropouts would have about the same movement.
The vesper is pretty sweet but too bad it can not hold up a bigger rider that puts down a lot of torque. I hope someday to try the classic. I am rocking a vesper in the front and a Hydra rear.
There's no significant weight difference - main thing is durability and rolling resistance increases in ceramic. In a mountain bike application, though, even that is not big enough to overcome a pretty substantial price premium for ceramic. So much dirt and water gets pushed into the bearings that it starts to mess up the ceramic ones before too long as well. Thanks for watching! - Dan at Fanatik
@John "No significant weight difference." Despite the fact that ceramic bearings themselves are up to a third lighter than steel ones, because they are both encased in the same steel races, use the same amount of grease, have the same bearing seals, and because their total weight is a tiny percentage of the weight of the hub, the resulting weight difference between an Onyx hub with ceramic bearings and one with steel bearings is, like I said, not significant. Thanks for watching. Dan at Fanatik
So they could keep the price down. And the maintenance cost as well. Instead of $100 a hub to replace the bearings it should be much less. But a bit less spin out on the stand...
They are high quality steel bearings. Ceramic bearings have traits that can make them more desirable, but for this application, in my opinion, they aren't worth the expense. Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Put it this way, if the Hope 4 is a really good hub (i've had them) then Onyx is an unbelievably great hub. I've abused mine for 3 years now in bike parks, enduros and DH on two different bikes and they have never failed me once.
What is the warranty on them? I am a heavy guy and sometimes put down over 1200 watts when sprinting. I am worked about blowing the rear out while climbing or sprinting.
@@totalglitch I doubt I peak that high but you will break chains before you break these freehubs. There is a reason they use this design in Helicopter rotors and dragster transmissions.
Onyx does make a centerlock option. We only stock 6 bolt at the shop, but if its something you wanted to special order we can certainly help you out! Shoot us an email at sales@fantikbike.com and our customer service team can get you sorted out!
@@FanatikBikeCo Thanks for replying. After I posted the comment I went to the Onyx Racing website and found them. I ordered a front and rear. It said about a 4 week lead time but I'm in no hurry because I have spare wheels. I hope I like them. I will be building them on some Boyd 36 carbon hoops I've had in a box for many months.
@@Pens4Life85 🤔I actually liked the wheels I built so much that I ordered another set of hubs for my aluminum wheels. I noticed the instant engagement right away. For warranty purposes I trust going direct to the manufacturer more than a retailer. I place no loyalty to any shop since the shop I used to deal with closed up. They was one of largest Northeastern stores for all the high end bling and did really well but the guy that owned it, and a good friend of mine, just closed after almost 20 years of being in business. At least I know that I am registered with the manufacturer and my warranties will be honored. If that is being a Douche then so be it, I have no shame.
Nice video... and extra hand ;). Any more details on the 'thinner' sprags. Would the vesper be as capable as the original to handle high torque loads? eg mashing the pedals with a heavy rider and bike?
Good question. I didn't notice that on the hightower I ran it on, but it's something that would just depend on how much pedal kick-back a given bike/suspension has.
@@FanatikBikeCo Spoke holes need to be straight, they nowdays are made also of Dyneema and carbon fiber, these are even stronger than steel at least x5.
The engagement is equivalent to 64 teeth in feel . It is not truly instant due to the ramp leaf system . A Shimano FH 670 silent equivalent from the late 1990's .
Probably weight, but I'm not a road biker so I don't rightly know. If I had a road bike and the money to get this hub, I surely would! Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Also because instant engagement is less necessary on road, where you spend far less time free-wheeling and than off-road. The weight penalty isn’t worth the engagement benefit for most road applications. These will probably become more popular on gravel bikes out West where we are doing a lot more gnarly fire roads and single-track on our “road” bikes.
I don't. Because they machine out the the hub flanges, I bet it might be a while, I know they're working full tilt on just keeping up with demand for Boost 32h. Thanks for watching! Dan at Fanatik
@Fanatik Bike Co. You guys are awesome, keep up the great videos!!! Service info would be very helpful, how frequent are service intervals and how long does it take to service? CK hubs take < 10 mins to clean "pawls" and ride. i9 Hydra hubs are less than CK. How much time to take these apart and "clean" just to be riding again. I am concerned about weight but with forks and droppers needing maintenance every 40 hours now, I wan't something that requires infrequent maintenance intervals and less than 10 minutes to do the job. My Chris Kings require about 20 minutes of service a year on rear and Zero minutes on front.
They are super simple to service, you likely saw how easy it was to pull the driver in the vid. As far as service intervals, it varies pretty drastically on the amount you ride and conditions you ride in, but with my Onyx hubs I'd do it once a year to make sure all was well. Onyx has easy to follow videos on their site, and aside from some specific lubricants they suggest, there's nothing proprietary about the tools you need. Thanks for watching!! - Dan at Fanatik
Does instantaneous engagement mean zero degrees of movement before the cranks drive power into the ground? Like these are even more extreme than I9 Hydra? So between these and Hydra, which do you recommend? Which is lighter? Thanks
That is exactly right, no forward movement (or at least no perceivable movement) before the driver engages. As far as recommendations, there's sort of three main variables to consider with higher end hubs: 1) weight, 2) engagement, 3) noise. Arrange those in order of your priorities, and go from there. Hydras weigh less and have high engagement and higher noise volume. Onyx's have high engagement and no noise, but weigh more. Your call! - Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo Dan you are the best. Fanatik is blessed to have you. I watch all your videos and you always explain stuff very clearly. For me POE/weight are priority and then I want my hub to scream like an invasion of wasps when I’m coasting. My next wheel build will be Hydras. Is it more cost effective to have someone take apart my existing rims to fit F and R Hydra hubs with matching XD driver or is cheaper to get a set of NOBL wheels or i9 wheels fitted with Hydras as a brand new build?
@@GokkunGuru Thank you, I really appreciate that! Clarity and useful information is always my goal with these. Regarding getting a new hubs, the most cost effective option is typically buying a new wheelset and selling the old. For example, when you build a set of wheels using our Custom Wheel Builder, we don't charge labor (normally $100/wheel) and you get a blanket discount on the components. If you were to re-use your rims, A) we would be charging you wheel build labor and B) if the rims aren't true (more common with alloy rims than carbon) you'll get a lesser final quality. By selling your previous wheelset, you can recoup some of the costs, and it'll cost the same or less to actually build them anyways. That's as far as if it were coming from us, anyways. Cheers! - Dan at Fanatik
I'm really interested in a direct engagement and silent hub like Onyx. Reading comments on other vids, I see "True Precision Stealth hubs", but except an old-fashioned website, I find noting serious on YT. Has anybody more info on Stealth tech ? A review ? CommentS ? Thanks !
I don't know. They're pretty slammed keeping up with boost orders, and given the size of the company, unfortunately I'd be surprised if they go for that. It would be cool, but truthfully, other than the weight, the old hub gets you all the same benefits. I will ask them if they have plans to. Thanks for watching! Dan at Fanatik
They do not make a non-boost option. I would take a look at the regular Onyx hub, which we currently have on sale here: www.fanatikbike.com/collections/non-boost-hub-sale/products/onyx-mtb-12x142mm-32h-rear-hub
Would suggest the MTB classic hubs from Onyx over the Vesper. To make a more lightweight hub they had to reduce the size of the sprag clutch which can slip under heavy torque. The MTB hub from Onyx would be the move with an e bike
Ceramics can be made "much" rounder. They are much harder and so can actually grind down many contaminants. They don't corrode. That makes them great for machinery that stays in place, spins very fast, and is easily re-lubed. However... ceramic balls also grind down steel races, and ceramics don't rebound from shocks; they either imprint on softer races, or they crack at some point. Maybe that point is beyond the point normal bike use encounters, maybe not. I have used loose ceramic balls to polish slightly pitted steel races, and then put steel balls back in, which is a handy trick. Personally, I'd definitely use ceramics on the track or smooth roads *if* I were paying the bills with bike riding, and put up with having to replace them a bit more often. Other than that, meh.
unless you have money that you need to spend, ceramic makes no sense. in the world of marginal gains, i would put titanium bolts above ceramic bearings.
I would imagine so, but these guys are engineers and they test their products. At this point we have not had any hub-shell failures. Thanks for watching! Dan at Fanatik
If the engagement relies on little splines moving direction/orentation then it's not going to be truly "instantaneous". I'd also like to know the torque limitations of a friction based system compared to a ratchet based one before considering one. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Just saw the price, never mind.
That's true, but the time period before it engages is so insignificant that it's not noticeable. I don't know the torque limitations, maybe Onyx has done the testing to know. It's been a while since I studied physics, but its not friction that is causing the lock. Are you familiar with what a cam is, like in rock climbing? That's what's going on in there. As the "sprags" rotate, the space they need to take up increases, so the inner and outer race lock in place. Hopefully that helps visualize it a bit. You can google "how a sprag clutch works" for some visuals. Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo I'm not a climber but I am an engineer so I am aware of how climbing cams work... Any force applied to the rope is redirected perpendicular to the original vector, outwards into the rock. But unless the crevice is narrower further out than the cam, it still relies to some extent on friction between the cam and the rock. I believe the cam also amplifies the force (for reduced displacement). Inside the hub, I'm assuming the surfaces sandwiching the splines (I don't know what they're called, "race" maybe, like a bearing?) are smooth (in order to engage at any point), so therefore unless the splines deform the races friction is the only thing that can lock the rotation. Friction, especially static friction (which this would be) alone can exert a large force, provided the force pushing the surfaces together is great enough. (It's really just proportional to the coefficient of static friction and the normal force that acts perpendicular to the interface between spline and race.)
@@sergarlantyrell7847 Ha! I see what you're saying, and eat my words. Static friction it is. And yes, you got it exactly, the sprags (cams) push against the inner and outer race. Thanks for the elaboration! Cheers, Dan at Fanatik
Good question, although I'm doubtful of the claim that straight pull is stronger. If that's true (very well may be), then it's irrelevant, because the DT Swiss Competition spokes we use do not break at the bend. On top of that, consider the following: -They are often proprietary, so are very difficult to find replacements for. -The can spin in the hub as you bring it up to tension, making that process much more difficult and time consuming. -There is only one lacing pattern available to a J-bend spoke. We do a 2x 3x lacing pattern that wouldn't be possible with straight pull spokes. Thanks for watching, and for inquiring, that is a great question! Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo "There is only one lacing pattern available to a J-bend spoke. We do a 2x 3x lacing pattern that wouldn't be possible with straight pull spokes." is there a mistake here ?
Sorry mate, I am DONE with using Onyx product. My rear hub developed hair line crack and finally cracked on the none drive side which is smaller, after 2 year of very LIGHT use. Now that they are making it lighter god forbid. Switched to XT hub....
Drat, that stinks! Was this on the driver, or the hub shell? They do have a five year warranty, did (or could you) pursue that? To be fair, things do break. I've seen a fair share of broken XT hub shells as well. Best, Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo Well it is on the driver split open at the end of the spoke and has crack along the shell. i think this was developed a long time ago as a hairline crack then it got worst. It is past 5 years but i hardly used the bike ....i took it to bike shop and they said most likely they will not warranty it.
They're brand new! Onyx is a tiny company, they've been focused on manufacturing them so that ya'll can get em!! Just give us a holler if you have any questions! Cheers, Dan at Fanatik
what? your answer doesn’t make sense to me.. so what if they’re brand new? dude your taking me for a ride... thanks for your attention to comments ill give you that... so its not on their own website because its new? and they’re a small company? really...thats how you justify this... have a nice day i love your videos but your point of view is turning me off...
@@riotrock07 Sorry about that. I agree, in a perfect world they would definitely have it on their site. But the reality is that they've been swamped just trying to get these hubs to their distributors, and they haven't had the time or resources to do the substantial amount of work that it takes to get a whole new line of products on to a website. That's all I meant. I'm sure we'll see them on there before long. Thanks for watching, Dan at Fanatik
They are definitely on the high side of the spectrum. But they are also made entirely in the US, and use an engagement mechanism that is completely unique to mtb hubs.
Me: "Mmm, silent rear hub, that's so neat".
*Sees price* : "I LIKE NOISE NOW".
price tag of profile hubs too..
Great overview. my all-time favorite component is my onyx hub. The smooth, instant engagement plus the silent action is worth any price or weight. I love my wheel you built for me with the custom wheel builder. You guys rock.
I love em as well. I'm glad you're still digging that wheel, thanks Steve!! - Dan P
Are you still happy with the Onyx? Do you notice the "sponginess?
@@koganmb I'm happy with my onyx classic but not my vesper. It's been nothing but problems.
@@hardtailparty was it an early or late Vesper? I saw lot's of issues with early production, but supposedly those are fixed. Do you notice the "Sponginess" others talk about?
I just got the SuperBoost Vesper for my Pivot Switchblade. It's def a game changer. I also purchased the 3rd arm upgrade so I can adjust my suspension without taking my hands off the grips.
Just got my pivot too with 370 hubs. Coming from i9s i really miss the engagement... who laced ur wheel? And which rim did u go for???
@@ikharl328 you can upgrade 370 to 54T Star Ratchet
Every mtb UA-camr needs these silent hubs. Trying to watch videos while I9 hubs make a bunch of racket isn’t the most enjoyable thing to watch.
Haha. I watched the 3 arm part half a dozen times.
Just finished up my second ride on these hubs and they are unbelievable. I had I9 torch before and these are so much better! Absolutely love them.
Any issues with those hubs? I noticed it's now 4 years later and I'm curious how they are doing
@@NicholasDeNardin-dp6juput 5000 hard miles on them without any service before my rear hub blew up. Onyx said it shouldn’t have happened and sent me all new internals for free. It’s been going great for another few thousand miles. Amazing hubs and company!
I love Onyx hubs, but I also like to sound like a swarm of angry wasps coming down the trail sometimes too
I know I'm kind of in the middle of what I want to do loud or quiet
I9 Hydras baby.... they call me and me and my friend with hydras the buzzin bees lol hubs are AMAZING .. who wants silent hubs??? thats like having a quiet Hot rod ...Hmmmmmmm nahhh not a fan.. besides is easier to pass slower riders when they hear u coming they usually know to pull over :) for the most part lol
Saw your video and got on it , I’m now going to receive a set
Just would like to say thanks for the direction
Glad we can help! The Onyx hubs are pretty mint!
I want 3 arms....how do I get them?
you want a rachet arm or a sprag one ?
@Имя Фамилия the louder it is the more high quality it is right? Haha
@@letsgoletsgoletsgoletsgoletsgo You haven't seen on 1m13 in the vid ? Just have a look !
@@amadesc yeah i did, what did i miss?
@@letsgoletsgoletsgoletsgoletsgo The guy has 3 hands.... so Kandem's comment is a joke.. You didn't get it I think :-)
I cracked two vespers in one season. Onyx honored the warranty in both cases, and I went back to the good old DT350. No problems since.
Great vid. It's the simple things like being able to show the weight difference / technological design improvements between v1 and v2. Would love to see you guys do a comparison of the Onyx Vesper vs the Project 321 (silent) 😁😁😁😁
for a second i thought we were heading towards the scene from "ghost"
Lol love the three arms gag
Man, I really wanted onyx hubs when I built my wheel set and I didn't really care about weight as I just wanted quiet/silent , but the price was just a bit over my budget. I opted for Project 321 hubs instead with the quiet/high engagement pawl option and have been very pleased with them. Maybe next wheel set I can allocate funds for the onyx.
They aren't cheap, but they are worth it!
Cheers,
Dan at Fanatik
Great weight comparison and internal video! Thanks team!
Certainly!
wish these would have come out a couple months ago when I got my Onyx hubs on my Ripmo.
C'est la vie! At the end of the day, the only functional difference is weight, and that you have ceramic bearings vs the steel ones on these.
Thanks for watching and shopping with us!
Dan at Fanatik
Anyone else have a bad experience with the ceramic bearings wearing out quickly on the OG hubs? Loved them otherwise so I’m glad to hear they went to a steel bearing this time around.
Mine had allot of play in the drive side bearing right out of the box. The other side side is shot after 5k miles.
Ceramic bearings are not so good for most mountain bike apllications. With any ceramic bearing, even the crazy expensive ones, impact loading will cause damage and possibly failure.
Cheap ceramic bearings are also probably less round that decent steel bearings so do have more drag.
Stainless are not necessarily better than a decent bearing steel either - again it's a roundness issue. They might just be slightly easier to look after.
Personally a top end steel bearing, with actual bearing steel balls, a decent grease and some preventative maintenance delivers much better results than stainless or ceramics. Cheaper too. People just fall for the marketing hype with the others and the manufacturers milk that.
There are probably 2 bearing companies worth using and it's worth going for their top end steel bearings. Enduro isn't one of them btw!
FYI, you might need 2x 20mm cone wrenches for new purchases since these can sometimes be sold without the preload set. 2nd FYI: you need externally splined locknuts on Shimano centerlock rotors on 12MM TA. Also Onyx must be swamped right now, website not updated with description or any details, minimalist slow replies via email tech questions.
They are totally swamped. Thanks for the tips!
@@FanatikBikeCo Do you happen to know if its normal to set the snug preload in dropouts but then when removed from dropouts the preload suddenly feels very loose with lots of wiggle room. I would have assumed wheel play while in / out of dropouts would have about the same movement.
seems like the best option for hub, currently.
It's a good one!!
Just got the classic for my topstone neo. Putting them on Belgium g wheels.
The vesper is pretty sweet but too bad it can not hold up a bigger rider that puts down a lot of torque. I hope someday to try the classic. I am rocking a vesper in the front and a Hydra rear.
I always thought ceramic bearings were lighter, no? If weight savings was the goal in this new iteration, then why the switch to steel bearings?
There's no significant weight difference - main thing is durability and rolling resistance increases in ceramic. In a mountain bike application, though, even that is not big enough to overcome a pretty substantial price premium for ceramic. So much dirt and water gets pushed into the bearings that it starts to mess up the ceramic ones before too long as well. Thanks for watching! - Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo Okay great! Thank you.
@John "No significant weight difference."
Despite the fact that ceramic bearings themselves are up to a third lighter than steel ones, because they are both encased in the same steel races, use the same amount of grease, have the same bearing seals, and because their total weight is a tiny percentage of the weight of the hub, the resulting weight difference between an Onyx hub with ceramic bearings and one with steel bearings is, like I said, not significant.
Thanks for watching.
Dan at Fanatik
So they could keep the price down. And the maintenance cost as well. Instead of $100 a hub to replace the bearings it should be much less. But a bit less spin out on the stand...
3rd hand comes out of no where at 1:13 😆
Any plans to compare this hub to the box one stealth hub that's $100 cheaper?
Not currently, no.
Any chance of a video about the vespers updated axles?
*03:00* I’m confused.. doesn’t that mean the new generation steel bearings are a lower quality than the previous ceramic bearings?
They are high quality steel bearings. Ceramic bearings have traits that can make them more desirable, but for this application, in my opinion, they aren't worth the expense.
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Are you still planning to doing a video on the We Are One Composites rev rims?
Hi Jed, yes, we would like to. Things got away from us is all.
Best,
Dan at Fanatik
I see on fanatik wheel builder they list a boost 148 onyx and iso 148 onyx . What is ISO a reference to ? Thanks
It signifies that they are 6-bolt brake mounts (as opposed to Centerlock).
- Dan P.
Loud hubs save lives😉
Haha, I thought people with loud hubs never stopped pedaling. ;)
Awesome video thanks!!
You need Onyx Vesper.
i’ve been riding a bicycle since 1984 and all hubs are silent they don’t make a noise only the drive sprocket.
On these the driver in fact is totally silent, it's pretty cool.
you've not been riding modern bikes with nice hubs since 1984 though have you.
Holy shit.... where does your extra arm live? Crazy aye! Be pretty handy huh 😂😂
PNW Ginger magic!
How tough is it relative to hope 4 pro or dt swiss 350? Could you do trials on it?
Absolutely, Onyx started off as a BMX hub company, they are bulletproof.
Cheers,
Dan at Fanatik
Put it this way, if the Hope 4 is a really good hub (i've had them) then Onyx is an unbelievably great hub. I've abused mine for 3 years now in bike parks, enduros and DH on two different bikes and they have never failed me once.
What is the warranty on them? I am a heavy guy and sometimes put down over 1200 watts when sprinting. I am worked about blowing the rear out while climbing or sprinting.
@@totalglitch I doubt I peak that high but you will break chains before you break these freehubs. There is a reason they use this design in Helicopter rotors and dragster transmissions.
Wish they made them with the Centerlock mounting instead of 6 bolt. I really would like to have silent hubs.
Onyx does make a centerlock option. We only stock 6 bolt at the shop, but if its something you wanted to special order we can certainly help you out! Shoot us an email at sales@fantikbike.com and our customer service team can get you sorted out!
@@FanatikBikeCo Thanks for replying. After I posted the comment I went to the Onyx Racing website and found them. I ordered a front and rear. It said about a 4 week lead time but I'm in no hurry because I have spare wheels. I hope I like them. I will be building them on some Boyd 36 carbon hoops I've had in a box for many months.
@@Pens4Life85 🤔I actually liked the wheels I built so much that I ordered another set of hubs for my aluminum wheels. I noticed the instant engagement right away. For warranty purposes I trust going direct to the manufacturer more than a retailer. I place no loyalty to any shop since the shop I used to deal with closed up. They was one of largest Northeastern stores for all the high end bling and did really well but the guy that owned it, and a good friend of mine, just closed after almost 20 years of being in business. At least I know that I am registered with the manufacturer and my warranties will be honored. If that is being a Douche then so be it, I have no shame.
how to change ball bearing inside hub? Central bearing.
onyxrp.com/product-category/bike-hub-service/
@@FanatikBikeCo not shown......only all another bearings in video.
Wow! I love silent hubs looks like Shimano,how can i buy that?
On our website! www.fanatikbike.com/collections/components/hubs?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Onyx
Nice video... and extra hand ;). Any more details on the 'thinner' sprags. Would the vesper be as capable as the original to handle high torque loads? eg mashing the pedals with a heavy rider and bike?
Hi Ruben, I meant less wide. Still two rows. Yup, they are good to go for any mountain biking application!
Cheers,
Dan at Fanatik
Hi man! You are the son of the Simply Red singer !!
Hahahaha, you're not the first person to say that. Usually it's remarks about Carrot Top, so I like this reference better.
instant engagement - does it mean that pedal feedback is much more noticable as well... ?
Good question. I didn't notice that on the hightower I ran it on, but it's something that would just depend on how much pedal kick-back a given bike/suspension has.
a heavier but quieter hub is a fair trade off to my loud ass clicking hub
I've heard the Vesper is kind of "spongy". How is the engagement feel?
These are anti reverse, correct? No riding fakie???
i didn’t see a a centerlock compatible onyx vesper... is there?
Not yet, I believe it is in the works.
Is there string zylon spoke version?
Not as of yet, no.
@@FanatikBikeCo Spoke holes need to be straight, they nowdays are made also of Dyneema and carbon fiber, these are even stronger than steel at least x5.
how do you remove the bearings on the Vesper front hubs? so weird I cannot fond a video or instructions on the new vesper front hubs
Can you recommend a set of wheels on the next hub for someone who weighs over 400 lb
The engagement is equivalent to 64 teeth in feel . It is not truly instant due to the ramp leaf system . A Shimano FH 670 silent equivalent from the late 1990's .
Can you buy the hub and put it on a wheel you already have?
Yep! You'll likely need new spokes, and the labor for building a wheel is $100+, but it can be done.
why isnt this more popular on the road??
Probably weight, but I'm not a road biker so I don't rightly know. If I had a road bike and the money to get this hub, I surely would!
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Also because instant engagement is less necessary on road, where you spend far less time free-wheeling and than off-road. The weight penalty isn’t worth the engagement benefit for most road applications. These will probably become more popular on gravel bikes out West where we are doing a lot more gnarly fire roads and single-track on our “road” bikes.
@@WordupG thats actually very good point. obvious in retrospect. but astute af nonetheless
Do you know if the 28h / 6bolt / boost vesper is on the way?
I don't. Because they machine out the the hub flanges, I bet it might be a while, I know they're working full tilt on just keeping up with demand for Boost 32h.
Thanks for watching!
Dan at Fanatik
Fanatik Bike Co. Thanks - Gotta be patient
Its close to "coaster hubs" but without the braking mechanism
Will onyx be offering vesper in bmx variants?
I don't believe so, pretty sure they're just sticking with Boost MTB hubs. That said they do offer BMX hubs, which are rad.
Cheers,
Dan at Fanatik
@Fanatik Bike Co. You guys are awesome, keep up the great videos!!!
Service info would be very helpful, how frequent are service intervals and how long does it take to service? CK hubs take < 10 mins to clean "pawls" and ride. i9 Hydra hubs are less than CK. How much time to take these apart and "clean" just to be riding again. I am concerned about weight but with forks and droppers needing maintenance every 40 hours now, I wan't something that requires infrequent maintenance intervals and less than 10 minutes to do the job. My Chris Kings require about 20 minutes of service a year on rear and Zero minutes on front.
They are super simple to service, you likely saw how easy it was to pull the driver in the vid. As far as service intervals, it varies pretty drastically on the amount you ride and conditions you ride in, but with my Onyx hubs I'd do it once a year to make sure all was well. Onyx has easy to follow videos on their site, and aside from some specific lubricants they suggest, there's nothing proprietary about the tools you need.
Thanks for watching!!
- Dan at Fanatik
Does instantaneous engagement mean zero degrees of movement before the cranks drive power into the ground? Like these are even more extreme than I9 Hydra?
So between these and Hydra, which do you recommend? Which is lighter? Thanks
That is exactly right, no forward movement (or at least no perceivable movement) before the driver engages. As far as recommendations, there's sort of three main variables to consider with higher end hubs: 1) weight, 2) engagement, 3) noise. Arrange those in order of your priorities, and go from there. Hydras weigh less and have high engagement and higher noise volume. Onyx's have high engagement and no noise, but weigh more. Your call!
- Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo Dan you are the best. Fanatik is blessed to have you. I watch all your videos and you always explain stuff very clearly.
For me POE/weight are priority and then I want my hub to scream like an invasion of wasps when I’m coasting. My next wheel build will be Hydras.
Is it more cost effective to have someone take apart my existing rims to fit F and R Hydra hubs with matching XD driver or is cheaper to get a set of NOBL wheels or i9 wheels fitted with Hydras as a brand new build?
@@GokkunGuru Thank you, I really appreciate that! Clarity and useful information is always my goal with these.
Regarding getting a new hubs, the most cost effective option is typically buying a new wheelset and selling the old. For example, when you build a set of wheels using our Custom Wheel Builder, we don't charge labor (normally $100/wheel) and you get a blanket discount on the components. If you were to re-use your rims, A) we would be charging you wheel build labor and B) if the rims aren't true (more common with alloy rims than carbon) you'll get a lesser final quality. By selling your previous wheelset, you can recoup some of the costs, and it'll cost the same or less to actually build them anyways. That's as far as if it were coming from us, anyways.
Cheers!
- Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo Thanks. Just paid for a new wheelset at Fanatik.
Good to see Simply Red into cycling.
😘
Very cool
When hubs cost more than your whole bike.
I'm really interested in a direct engagement and silent hub like Onyx. Reading comments on other vids, I see "True Precision Stealth hubs", but except an old-fashioned website, I find noting serious on YT. Has anybody more info on Stealth tech ? A review ? CommentS ? Thanks !
They got bought out by BOX (mtb drivetrain company)
Can you put these on road wheels or are they only suitable for MTB?
Road too! We don't sell them, but they are available: onyxrp.com/product-category/road-gravel-hubs/
Will the vesper ever come in 142?
I don't know. They're pretty slammed keeping up with boost orders, and given the size of the company, unfortunately I'd be surprised if they go for that. It would be cool, but truthfully, other than the weight, the old hub gets you all the same benefits. I will ask them if they have plans to.
Thanks for watching!
Dan at Fanatik
onyxrp.com/product-category/mtb-hubs/#q=&hPP=12&idx=wp_posts_product&p=0&dFR%5Btaxonomies.pa_axle-width%5D%5B0%5D=142&dFR%5Btaxonomies.pa_hub-type%5D%5B0%5D=Rear&hFR%5Btaxonomies_hierarchical.product_cat.lvl0%5D%5B0%5D=Mountain%20Bike%20Hubs&is_v=1
Sooo .. where do I buy one? cant find a 142/12 anywhere..
They do not make a non-boost option. I would take a look at the regular Onyx hub, which we currently have on sale here: www.fanatikbike.com/collections/non-boost-hub-sale/products/onyx-mtb-12x142mm-32h-rear-hub
Are the Vesper hubs strong enough for ebikes?
Would suggest the MTB classic hubs from Onyx over the Vesper. To make a more lightweight hub they had to reduce the size of the sprag clutch which can slip under heavy torque. The MTB hub from Onyx would be the move with an e bike
So what's the deal with ceramic vs steel bearings?
Ceramics can be made "much" rounder. They are much harder and so can actually grind down many contaminants. They don't corrode. That makes them great for machinery that stays in place, spins very fast, and is easily re-lubed. However... ceramic balls also grind down steel races, and ceramics don't rebound from shocks; they either imprint on softer races, or they crack at some point. Maybe that point is beyond the point normal bike use encounters, maybe not. I have used loose ceramic balls to polish slightly pitted steel races, and then put steel balls back in, which is a handy trick. Personally, I'd definitely use ceramics on the track or smooth roads *if* I were paying the bills with bike riding, and put up with having to replace them a bit more often. Other than that, meh.
@@ericpmoss Thanks Eric!! A more thorough answer than I could have given.
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
I have to stick to ceramic bearings
yeah, sad that has been changed too.
you can upgrade to ceramic for extra moola. my friend paid extra $160 for upgrade.
unless you have money that you need to spend, ceramic makes no sense. in the world of marginal gains, i would put titanium bolts above ceramic bearings.
Old freehub is completly steel so if they just replaced that it would't be much diffrence. I like the looks of the old much more.
if you machine so much material away, its bound to be weaker than the full bodied one right?
engineering speaking ?
I would imagine so, but these guys are engineers and they test their products. At this point we have not had any hub-shell failures.
Thanks for watching!
Dan at Fanatik
No 26" rim's 😭 on your wheel builder
No, but we can do that. Just shoot us an email at sales@fanatikbike.com!
Now we just need Shimano to let them use the micro spline driver. Then I will buy them!
Well I just found out that you can get them with MS. :D
If the engagement relies on little splines moving direction/orentation then it's not going to be truly "instantaneous".
I'd also like to know the torque limitations of a friction based system compared to a ratchet based one before considering one.
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Just saw the price, never mind.
That's true, but the time period before it engages is so insignificant that it's not noticeable. I don't know the torque limitations, maybe Onyx has done the testing to know. It's been a while since I studied physics, but its not friction that is causing the lock. Are you familiar with what a cam is, like in rock climbing? That's what's going on in there. As the "sprags" rotate, the space they need to take up increases, so the inner and outer race lock in place.
Hopefully that helps visualize it a bit. You can google "how a sprag clutch works" for some visuals.
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo I'm not a climber but I am an engineer so I am aware of how climbing cams work... Any force applied to the rope is redirected perpendicular to the original vector, outwards into the rock. But unless the crevice is narrower further out than the cam, it still relies to some extent on friction between the cam and the rock. I believe the cam also amplifies the force (for reduced displacement).
Inside the hub, I'm assuming the surfaces sandwiching the splines (I don't know what they're called, "race" maybe, like a bearing?) are smooth (in order to engage at any point), so therefore unless the splines deform the races friction is the only thing that can lock the rotation.
Friction, especially static friction (which this would be) alone can exert a large force, provided the force pushing the surfaces together is great enough. (It's really just proportional to the coefficient of static friction and the normal force that acts perpendicular to the interface between spline and race.)
@@sergarlantyrell7847 Ha! I see what you're saying, and eat my words. Static friction it is. And yes, you got it exactly, the sprags (cams) push against the inner and outer race. Thanks for the elaboration!
Cheers,
Dan at Fanatik
@@sergarlantyrell7847 he said it! all bow down to the mighty couch engineer.
@@sergarlantyrell7847 BLAHHHH BLAHHH bizzzy blah .. ur an engineer and " race/ maybe like a bearing? LMAO gotta love u book smart guys...:)
Why j-bend though, straight pull is stronger.
Good question, although I'm doubtful of the claim that straight pull is stronger. If that's true (very well may be), then it's irrelevant, because the DT Swiss Competition spokes we use do not break at the bend.
On top of that, consider the following:
-They are often proprietary, so are very difficult to find replacements for.
-The can spin in the hub as you bring it up to tension, making that process much more difficult and time consuming.
-There is only one lacing pattern available to a J-bend spoke. We do a 2x 3x lacing pattern that wouldn't be possible with straight pull spokes.
Thanks for watching, and for inquiring, that is a great question!
Dan at Fanatik
Nope. Moreover, wheelbuiling is much easier with j-bend spokes which increases reliability.
@@FanatikBikeCo "There is only one lacing pattern available to a J-bend spoke. We do a 2x 3x lacing pattern that wouldn't be possible with straight pull spokes."
is there a mistake here ?
Heavier than a standard hub.
Sorry mate, I am DONE with using Onyx product. My rear hub developed hair line crack and finally cracked on the none drive side which is smaller, after 2 year of very LIGHT use. Now that they are making it lighter god forbid. Switched to XT hub....
Drat, that stinks! Was this on the driver, or the hub shell? They do have a five year warranty, did (or could you) pursue that?
To be fair, things do break. I've seen a fair share of broken XT hub shells as well.
Best,
Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo
Well it is on the driver split open at the end of the spoke and has crack along the shell. i think this was developed a long time ago as a hairline crack then it got worst. It is past 5 years but i hardly used the bike ....i took it to bike shop and they said most likely they will not warranty it.
@@kambizz1 i would have tried, they might have done it.
AGH!! Three hands!!
(1:13)
why on earth these hubs are non existent on their ( onyx racing ) own website... whats going on?!?
They're brand new! Onyx is a tiny company, they've been focused on manufacturing them so that ya'll can get em!!
Just give us a holler if you have any questions!
Cheers,
Dan at Fanatik
what? your answer doesn’t make sense to me.. so what if they’re brand new? dude your taking me for a ride... thanks for your attention to comments ill give you that... so its not on their own website because its new? and they’re a small company? really...thats how you justify this... have a nice day i love your videos but your point of view is turning me off...
@@riotrock07 Sorry about that. I agree, in a perfect world they would definitely have it on their site. But the reality is that they've been swamped just trying to get these hubs to their distributors, and they haven't had the time or resources to do the substantial amount of work that it takes to get a whole new line of products on to a website. That's all I meant. I'm sure we'll see them on there before long.
Thanks for watching,
Dan at Fanatik
@@riotrock07 if you thought about it it would make perfect sense.
Still 140 grams heavier than Hydra
Hefty weight and hefty price
3 arms😮
Very nice .... but that hub costs almost as much as my entire bike ...
A valid negative point. But hey, super fancy stuff is expensive!
Hey... carrot top is into mtb tech!!!
That design is just a basic Bmx Freecoaster. It works absolutely the same. It also explains why its heavier.
Sort of, it has similarities. It doesn't free-coast though.
@@FanatikBikeCo Yeah on a Freecoaster you can also adjust the gap that it engages instantly. But if you do that it doesnt coast anymore.
@@jonathans.9455 Oh, that's rad! The more you know! Thanks - Dan at Fanatik
Sir
Para sa mga pinoy jan😅 eto ang tunay na tunog mayaman😅😅
Still heavy weight hub comparing to dt Swiss ;)
half a kilo for a rear hub hahahahahahahha.... I STILL BOUGHT IT !
Its over.
Who are you man? Carrot top?
1:10 wtf
shimano silent clutch.
He's a yankee imposter...he used grams
3 arms wtf
$400 hub.
Cool shit, but 460$ for a hub is fucking ridiciolus.
They are definitely on the high side of the spectrum. But they are also made entirely in the US, and use an engagement mechanism that is completely unique to mtb hubs.
shimano scylence😆😆
Baby arms
Advertises a silent hub and doesn't once spin the freehub or compare against another wheel to prove it...