I was made to be terrified of hell as a very young girl (I'm 75 now) but no longer believe. Dr. Ehrman has has given the best explanation I have heard so far for the evolution of the concepts of heaven and hell, particularly the hell one. No priest or pastor has ever even broached the subject (I wonder why?) Thanks Bart. You have made a great and loving service to humanity through your talks and books. And should a truly loving god actually exist, I hope to thank you again in heaven. :))
I'm sorry you were terrorised, Me too I ended up in a mental health hospital for a few weeks and fighting ocd for my entire last decade from early 20s to late 30s now. Terrorified of not being forgiven. Appalling to do this to people. Eternal damnation is easily the worst human idea in all of human history. And that's saying something. Glad it's nonsense. Take care
@@19perception83 The Resurrection from the dead (winter/slavery/blindness) takes place at the spring equinox, every year. Out of Egypt (winter) I have called my Sun. Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley.
Bart has such a zest for understanding and study of the actual historical foundations of Christianity. It saddens me to no end, that the masses of Christians do not.
Its actually super interesting to study but also frustrating because if you learn a lot of it and then try to talk to people about it you end up banging your head up against a wall
You can't enjoy understanding if you don't do the work to get there. Memorizing holy words and singing songs is not it. You have to want mental freedom.
Hi Mike. Some 40 years ago when I was a biblical fundamentalist believer I studied for 2 years to become a minister of religion and there we had a scripture lecturer from Oxford Uni who told us about "textual & literary criticism" which is what Bart is on about (I think). I came away from those lectures realising that the Gospels are possibly not a historical and scientific account of what Jesus said or did. I can tell you my fellow students were seething in bewilderment, frustration and anger at this revelation. I think to remain a Christian knowing these new understandings takes time, patience and a broadening of ones mind. I personally think most church leaders have tried to shelter their flocks from this new information because they do not believe they will have enough maturity to handle it and because they fear that they will loose respect and control by letting this be known. It's a question of weather we want to have an adult faith or remain with the faith of an infant.
Been following Bart Ehrman for a few yr.s and admire him and his work. We could use more like Bart. I hear kindness in his voice, the way he chooses his words, even when he crushes ignorance.
Bart is an engaging scholar. Ms. Castro did a great job.. Her diction is clear and her commentary concise.
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Thank you, professor. I wrote my final dissertation on history grade must supported by your books, more than 10 years ago (in Brazil). After reading Plato and Philo, I started considering that the historical Jesus, not only the gospels, may have been more Greek influence than we usually are able to accept. Not only on his speaches about afterlife, but mainly on his ethical teachings. If it's not the case, it's certain that early christians made the cultural sincretism.
Perhaps in the Gospel of John, Pauline epistles but not really the Synoptic gospels. I think it may be more accurate to say that the Xtians who twisted his ideas had more Greek influence than he did - they being from Rome and elsewhere in the Roman Empire, him being an Aramaic speaking Jew in Israel...
I just bought, for my 77 year old father’s birthday, Bart’s book, “The Triumph of Christianity”. He’s been a Christian for most of his life. If he actually reads it, that would be as miraculous as him turning on a computer for the first time. He loves to read, and he loves history. So, I’m curious to hear his take on the book.
I am a deist (not a Christian believer per se), and I really enjoy learning from Dr. Ehrman. He is a wealth of knowledge. And someday I would like to have some time to read his literature. Someday.
The Resurrection from the dead (winter/slavery/blindness) takes place at the spring equinox, every year. Out of Egypt (winter) I have called my Sun. Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley.
God: I am your god who loves you and is looking out for you. But I will not tolerate you doubting my words or questioning my authority. Surrender your critical thinking or spend eternity burning in hell. I love you and would sacrifice my only son for your sake. Me: Dear Yahweh, Oh, alright, but when will Jesus bring the pork chops? (borrowed from George Carlin).
I dont know if there is an afterlife but heres why i think there is a need for it to exist to make our existence here meaningful. Firstly, if we are simply cogs that keep the civilisation machine spinning endlessly, than the individual is not an end but a means that may or may not provide value. In this case we have no reason to value someones life, goals, desires & suffering from 1820 or from 355 BC since they are long gone & we have no obligation to care or feel sorry for their struggles. Secondly, moral efforts without some sort of afterlife or accountability & consequences makes morality a game based on luck & chance rather than fair ends. Whoever gets happy is lucky & whoever suffers is unfortunate & simply a product of chance. This places a superficial meaning to morality as survival of the fittest & insults moral efforts that fail to bear fruits or bear their full effects. Thirdly, in the absence of an afterlife we have no right to accuse someone else who’s goal and purpose in life is simply money and pleasure to be more altruistic as long as they aren’t causing any major suffering to anybody. Yet we still think that someone who works hard towards ideals such as justice, peace etc are more moral or admirable than someone who’s main concern is simply their survival and hedonistic goals. This can only make sense from the perspective that the moral struggle has consequences on society and collective group as a whole which is based on maximising the collective happiness whilst preserving personal freedoms. This is the utopian ideal of heaven. You cannot maximise the collective happiness if you are ignoring individuals happiness as irrelevant or luck based. Morality then becomes an illusion of feeding the human need for purpose and dislike of nihilism. Fourthly, It is common sense that we want to honour noble people or noble acts, altruistic acts, we want these people to be rewarded we don’t want their efforts to go to waste. It is considered morally unjust and disgusting when people who don’t deserve are raised and honoured or given fame or happiness whilst others who do great deeds go unnoticed. If you call morality a lofty ideal, than we cannot let the good be wasted. Why else do we feel strong bursts of emotion at injustices or at selfless acts of goodness. Fifthly, At the objective level it is necessary to have reward and punishment as we objectively believe that good deeds should not be wasted and good people are most deserving of happiness whilst bad people deserve punishment. At the subjective level, this should not mean that we do moral acts out of selfish reward for heaven or fear of hell.
@OTO TAKE That may be true but it is fallacious to use this to prove the truth of any religion. Each belief stands or falls on it's own merits. It is obvious to me that the Judaic tradition, as followed by the three major monotheistic religions, is not only filled with irrational beliefs opposed by science but constitute a belief system that requires the denial of obvious facts. What does warm soup have going for it? While not proven, there is at least some science behind it.
I've seen bart ehrman lecture and debate but this is the first video I watched that really shows just how knowledgeable he is. One of his debates was incredible when he looks like he got blown away and your thinking how is he gonna recover from that but then he wipes the floor with his opponent. Your the best bart!
Absolutely fascinating. This man is breaking down the allegedly divine nature of the bible. Highlighting inconsistencies such as not really having a consistent, coherent view of the afterlife shows the bible in its true colours. Keep going Dr. Ehrman!
I love the passion you have Bart. Really enjoying your videos and have started to read some of your books. Would throroughly recommend them to one and all!
I wouldn’t want to answer for Bart Ehrman but given his views on suffering in the world and how his inability to reconcile it with a good god has led him away from Christianity I think it’s a pretty safe bet that he’s not in favor of it. If you’re interested, he’s written a book about this: God’s Problem
How would you explain the cruelty happening in the world right now to kids? The 80 percent of the world's wealth is with only 7 percent of people, how drug companies use villages in Africa for their trials, how people desperately want to teach kids that it is ok to be gay and some even go to the extent of glorifying homosexuality. This is what the Bible teaches, That in the last days people will be selfish going after money and sex with absolutely no morals whatsoever..
I can't imagine why people think there is life after death. I have no recollection of a life before birth, so why would there be a life after the end of life. Blank, we're born consciousness develops, and we grow and change, and we die, back to blank.
I love that if you Google Bart Ehrman you get links to the many scholarly texts, popular books and lectures and interviews; along with a tad of books and lectures by folk whom seem to feel upset by Bart Ehrman. You know you've achieved fame when others write books saying your books are no good.
I just love this guy as a story teller. Always enlightening. Nice to know there is an ancient religion where it is believed that when you die you're gone. Kaput. Scary but rational. My question to Dr. Ehrman as I have asked before is: When we talk about historical Jesus, shouldn't we be reminded that he would not know what "Jesus" meant. At least some of the stories may be attributed to a man named Joshua ben Joseph? I find it funny when we talk about Clark Kent by his Superman personae.
The part where you changed your mind about Zoroastrianism and views of the afterlife are new to me. I wonder what would happen to other religions if they all had serious scholars like you look into their beliefs and history.
Four Views on Hell is just an incredible book. It was required reading for a class at my Bible College. I think they thought it would show that obviously only their view of hell made any sense. But they accidentally helped make me an atheist haha.
Geli That is like me studying theology made me an atheist. It’s so wonderful to have a mind free to examine all ideas, look into other faiths and not be burdened by a dogmatic belief in anything. Also not feel any guilt because you found God wanting.
I used to be terrified of hell. I didn't know anything about hell until religious people told me all about it. I was just a child and they were adults so I believed them. So glad I woke up after about 50 yrs of fear. I never would have thought up a place like hell on my own. Those people that did this to me should go to prison for committing emotional abuse on me.
would be better if he had said , let there be time , for ''light'' to exist , you need ''time'' first , no ? and how did that first sound travel ? we used to lock up people who talked to themselfs , now they just walk around this planet by the billions !! that's the scary thing about all this , you never know What they might do or think dangerous is a word that doesn't even come Close to all this nonsense
Better question is after Adam ate the fruit God said, “he has ate of the tree of good and evil he we must kick him out before he becomes like US!” I summarized but God said “becomes like US”
Trenchant analysis and helpful insights as usual. I had long wondered if Zoroastrian, Buddhist, and Hindu concepts of death and afterlife influenced Judaism and Christianity. It is very interesting that it turns out to be unlikely.
Wikipedia tells me that Plato's idea of Tarturus was temporary for most souls, that all but the worst would eventually be purified and move on. Some Christians thought similarly, of course, but it's curious that on the whole this idea was not preserved. 20:58, I knew that Gehenna was not Hell, but this is the first I've heard of it referring literally rather than metaphorically to the valley of the same name. But Jesus mentions it in the context of God's judgement, and it is humans who bury your body, so that doesn't sit right. 49:00 I am certainly familiar with Protestant speculations about ideas that are similar to Purgatory at first glance. In some of these ideas, it is more like a hospital recovery room than a prison. What Protestantism tends to preclude is not such speculations per se, but being dogmatic about them.
I just finished reading Heaven And Hell. And while I think it is an excellent book, it's a shame that Dr. Ehrman doesn't analyze the influence of Egyptian and Indo-Iranian concepts of the afterlife on the Greeks and Jews. It makes sense why he didn't, because they are outside his bailiwick, but a more thorough analysis would have been more illuminating. Maybe one day a scholar will attempt it.
Hey Bart, I really appreciate these ideas, thank you! The clarification about sheol, hades and gehenna are interesting. But HELP...! I’m curious how the claim can be made that Jesus wasn’t teaching at least some concept of hell or heaven. All the gospels have uses of the word “heaven” (οὐρανοῦ, οὐρανῶν, οὐρανοῖς). It’s mostly used to refer to where the Father is (such as the Lord’s Prayer) or in the phrase “kingdom of...” Does this refer to the sky or galaxy and space, or air? The same idea is in the Jewish scripture too where the prophet Elijah “...went up by a whirlwind into heaven” 2 King 2: 11 What does this refer to in a more metaphysical way? What is this “kingdom of heaven”? Why is the Father upward? And the idea of “hell” is in the gospels too, such as Matthew 25: 46 saying that those who don’t serve the “least of these” will “go away into eternal punishment”. Or a few places with langue such as “unquenchable fire” or “eternal fire” especially Matthew 18: 8-9 and Mark 9: 43-48. I’m not talking about the use of the word gehenna which is translated hell, I’m curious about the concept Jesus could be teaching about. Only twice in the gospels is an alternate use of the word gehenna in Matthew 23: 15 and 33 which is notable and just generally some of the uses of the word are much more confusing than simply a reference to the valley outside of the city; such as Matthew 10: 28: “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul/life. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul/life and body in hell/Gehenna.” Also why would Jesus say “today you will be with me in paradise” to the repentant thief before they both died? (not assuming paradise is the same as this new Christian idea of heaven or anything) I’m really curious about the ideas that Jesus did actually teach and not what Christianity claims. And Jesus definitely teaches something about heaven/sky as a place or kingdom and about a fire that doesn’t cease. So what could be the understanding of these in context? Do you address this in your Heaven & Hell book? Also does it have any bearing that nearly all of this talk appears in only Matthew? Thanks
Since I started my Podcast have spirit / angels from heaven joined me and talked about the after-life. Today there is no one who can persuade me that there is no life after death.
Where did Plato get his info/myths/beliefs ? Where did the Hebrews get their stories/myths/ religious beliefs? Ancient Egypt; Sumeria; Babylon etc... that came before them or influenced the Hebrews while they were in captivity in those lands ?
Broader question is how did consciousness evolve or come into being. The answer to your question though is people observing each other for long long long periods of time and mapping out patterns of behavior that characterize humanity
People are sent to outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Looks like multiple references to it in the book of Matthew. Is that hell?
@@fairfield0037 Could have been added later (put on Jesus's lips) when people started believing in a hell of the after life. As was the one where the Jesus character supposedly repeatedly said, "where the worm never dies," Those verses always terrified me to keep in line as a little girl - along with millions of other children. And so Christianity thrived.
No.. We don't have any proofs of that, but even if it was written by him, but it's impossible that he was an eye witness to everything he wrote, plus if he wrote some from other eyewitnesses, we would like to know which eyewitnesses narrated what and whether they were known to be trustworthy....If we apply such approach to every single story to the gospels, they will all fail. Hence, the bible is full of fabrications!!!!!
@@TA-vu9se I understand the logic being used here. I too, doubt many things written in the bible because the foolish imaginations of men corrupted scripture plus the church was run into the dirt by greed. The Book of Acts has more holes than swiss cheese and Paul is not an Apostle nor EVER was. He persecuted and stole the scriptures from the early Christians for 2 years before he dissapeared to Arabia for 3 years to study them. But that was after regaining sight from Ananias who nobody knows. Also the story of Ananias and Saphira was convenient for the church to get their tithes paid in full. Both Ananais stories are suspicious to me. If one wants to insert their agenda into the bible, just say Ananias did it. Really? Nope, I ain't drinking the Koolaid. Once saved always saved turned into the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. Paul told us who he saw on the road to Damascus in 2Cor 11:13-14. Barnabas ran off with Real Apostle John for a reason that nobody seems to bat an eye at but I did. Paul stopped people from doing "works" which Jesus told us specifically to do while keeping the Commandments of God. I understand that Paul stopped the Jews from being Jews and the Christians from doing works. Another thing is that they all spoke Aramaic, so.... where are the Aramaic scriptures? I assure you they exist, somewhere. Probably up the popes rear. I am positive that Jesus's prophecies are coming true though. In fact, I know they are. I AM a believer unto death and I'll ellaborate as to why: it's a feeling that is within, walking by faith and not by sight. The deal-sealer for me are the dreams that I have and the goosebumps I get. Really...the goosebumps. I can't make them appear unless I think of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They appear immediately when I pray. Nobody ever found a fossil of a goosebump nor a bumpy scripture. I know this makes no sense to a non-believer but that is the point. To hear and not understand. So I challenge you, get baptized. The "feeling" will be all the confirmation you'll need. Walking by faith because we can't trust our eyes in the devil's world. This is a game for souls and I think the devil's winning. The 1 world religion that is going to sweep the world will be confirmation that what I'm saying is true. It will be the worship of the evil one. This IS very real my friend. Take that leap of faith. 🙏
I've often wondered to what extent Egyptian afterlife theories and doctrines may have affected Isrealite ideas (whether or not Isreal came from Egypt - either way they were close neighbors).
Morning from South Africa Dr Bart Ehman. At 17:12 to 18:10 you mentioned things that are very captivating. I would like to know if the historian Jesus Christ and what the gospel claims that he said is true about heaven and hell. For example Luke 16:22-25 King James Version 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. From this passage of the text it seems as if the parable about Rich Man and Lazarus gives the idea that people somehow will receive a different rewards after Life. Based on what you said about historical Jesus Christ, could this passage of the text actually contradict what you already presented? Or should we take the entire writings of the New Testment as being influenced by the Greeks theological viewpoints? I am saying this because the New Testment is known as "Greek Scriptures". Lastly. The Apostles mentioned in the New Testment is it possible that they were influenced by the Greeks theological viewpoints about heaven and hell? Or should the ideas of Jesus Christ in the New Testment be considered as the ideas of Jesus Christ of the New Testment and not the historical Jesus Christ? Personally I enjoy living here or rather the life on this earth. Even though the world is full of suffering, I don't envision myself living somewhere after this life. Please assist me with those questions. Thanks in advance😊
Since the death of Jesus, the researchers into reincarnation have expanded the concept notably. Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many mansions." This is interpreted to mean that you create your own heaven or hell in the afterlife. Depending upon your state of consciousness, you may experience bliss or torture due to your own state of mind. Thoughts are things, and the soul is collectively your thoughts, feelings, preferences, and memories irrespective of the physical body left behind. What you take with you after death is your thoughts, feelings, preferences, and memories. Those who respect Jesus suspect he taught such things despite the flawed copies of such scripture to the contrary. "Ye are gods". Our true identity is as spiritual beings. "...and they can no longer die because they are like the angels".
Professor Ehrman I wish you would focus more on Paul and his explicitly universalistic statements in 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 5:18, Romans 11:32, and many other passages that clearly are teaching either a universal resurrection or a final reconciliation of all things (colossians 1:19-20 another example). The Pastoral epistles are rife with it as well. It did not start with origen, it didn't even start with Clement, it started with Paul.
I have never heard Dr. Ehrman use so many nonfluencies in any lecture.. and I've seen practically every one available online. He seemed to get better as he got rolling but uhhh in the uhhh beginning uhhhh it was uhhh tough to uhh listen to. As usual, he is still a fountain of knowledge that I really enjoy listening to.
If you want to find flaws in any religious teachings let alone all holy books, you will definitely find lots of them. You can argue all day long on words by words.. fron Torah, Injeel and Quran. The fact is Jesus was crucified and ressurected after 3 days. There are evidence besides from The Apostles, such as notes from Jewish Historian called Flavius Josephus and Rome Senator named Cladius Tacitus. Now, if there was a single man through any human history recorded whom could conquer The Death, dont you want to follow Him ??? Do not always connect Jesus with holy bible cause all were written by men.. and with many intentions that might not be suitable in the modern days. As far as Heaven and Hell.. no body has visited there including you, professor, so all we have to do just having faith in it not arguing whether they exist or not.
So it seems clear that Jesus believed only in a physical resurrection of the righteous. But for Paul, was the resurrection physical or spiritual, i.e. occurring in the heavens in a spiritual body?
I think Ehrman missed the introduction to the question about Egyptian influence - "considering Hebrew slavery in Egypt". Assuming this refers to the Exodus story about the Egyptian period, the answer should have started with "Since the Exodus story about the Hebrew slavery in Egypt is entirely fictional...". Egypt might certainly have influenced thoughts and ideas all over the Middle East, but the Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt as a people. Exodus is an entirely fictional story meant to unite a culture, not to re-tell actual history.
It is extremlely rare to meet a "Christian" who understands the first page of the O.T. The primary meaing of Egypt, Babylon, and Ethiopia is nothing more than the ancient winter season. Egypt certainly did influence the bible assemblers. The bible is divided into a number of the ancient seasons of the year. Genesis one divided the year into six months of "summer" (light greater than darkness, and six months of "winter" or six months of darkness. The O.T. character Ham/Am, is copied from the Egyptian Khem. The Israelites (Greeks) took Gold (sun - solar myths, Silver (moon - lunar myths), and Jewels (stars - stellar myth) out of Egypt. The Resurrection from the dead (winter/slavery/blindness) takes place at the spring equinox, every year. Out of Egypt (winter) I have called my Sun. Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley.
A.T. The Exodus story is fictional. That’s my point. Also, slavery wasn’t all that common in Egypt and the pyramids were built by Egyptian work teams, not (to any major degree) slaves.
Zoroastrianism had the idea that souls would be purified by passing through a river of molten silver, the very wicked would perish, and the good would have all their impurities purged by this passage. Is this a predecessor to the concept of purgatory? Also, there is the concept of guardian angels in Zoroastrianism - was this taken up by Christians later?
I can accept, that the idea of heaven and hell came from the Hellenistic period, but I don't understand how can we say that ancient Israelites didn't believe in a separate spirit or that the idea of eternal life came at the very end on the Bible. The story of calling out the spirit of Samuel and the stories of Enoch and Elijah being pulled up to live with God for an eternity are not ideas from the end of the bible. They are written in 2 Samuel, Genesis and 2 Kings (written in about 800-600 BC) which are all part of the Old Testament canon. So these beliefs were part of early judaism.
Hello! How about the fact that the universe has the magnetic/dielectric force as part of its Design? That means that we are an material manifestation of that two-in-one force(s) and that at conception, the first electro/magnetic point of the individual's creation? That means that the body and all subsequent electrochemical events of every cell of the body; thoughts, emotions and concepts we all consider are included in that individual's life, and which science considers as being eternal as radiation/data and only subject to change not extinction. In that regard, and in Epistemologym the correct philosophy of not knowing the Unknowable and that Agnosticism the only philosophy that doesn't require belief and faith to adopt it as correct? The Soul may be real and 'attached' to the body and justifies Pascal's 'Wager' to live by the 'Golden Rule' and consider the odds as being on their side of the bet?
Pascal's Wager is flawed because it only posits two options, the Christian god or no god. But there are countless thousands of god options along with the no god option and also just pretending to believe in the Christian god would not work with an omniscient god anyway.
I’m a Seventh-day Adventist and in our doctrine we teach soul sleep until the resurrection. However, we feel that the Bible is consistent, that Paul taught it as well throughout his life. When he said to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord he was talking not about death, but rather being taken to heaven in vision.
What i dont understand why take a subject like this from the bible,when EVEN ITS CORE DOCTRINES ARE NOT CLEAR,TRINITY BEING ONE OF THEM!! Bit fruitless and speculative at best..
David said the following after his son died, clearly not all Jews believed that people will be just destroyed after death. They believed that people went to a place. But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” 2Samuel 12:23 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. 42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13: 41&42 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46 According to the Bible Jesus Christ did speak about Heaven and Hell. If the Bible cannot be trusted because it was written years after Jesus Christ, what text do you have that tells exactly what Jesus Christ said. What's the basis of your claim that historical Jesus believed that people will not go to Hell, but will be destroyed? There's only one reason why anybody would go to Heaven - accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. There's only one reason why anybody would go to Hell - rejecting Jesus Christ. There are murderers in Heaven and Hell. Our evil deeds doesn't get us to Hell nor does our good deeds get us to Heaven!
The question on the blind guy : Was he born blind because his parents sinned? Meaning, his blindness was his parents' punishment for their sin + there's a biblical precedent for punishing children for their parents' sin.
@@zakmuhammad9499 Other than that quip in John 8:58: "Before Abraham was, *I am* ," (for which they rightly tried to stone him). Other than that, God, in the Gospels, knows things that Jesus doesn't know, can do things that Jesus can't do, and Jesus still needs to "pray" to The Father, so even from a Biblical perspective, it doesn't make sense to say that they're the same entity.
I am either a Catholic/Protestant or a Protestant/ Catholic....I was raised in a "fundamentalist" church, but became a Catholic when i was an adult.. i have trouble though with the belief in purgatory and in Marian devotion....I believe that God looks thru the prism of Jesus's righteousness, and does not see our sin. Such as, If I went to confession, received absolution , and had an accident on the way home. Just be fore i died i said "God damn bastard' then I had the sin of taking God's name in vain. So, that is why i believe that God uses Jesus's righteousness as a prism to view us. I can't see how there can be a purgatory. I must admit that it took a HUGE leap of faith for a young 12 -13 year old Jewish girl to accept the mission of bearing the Son of God. Considering the culture at the time. But, it wasn't until the 3rd c that Marian devotion came to be celebrated by the Church. Then in the 13th c St Dominic (supposedly) received the Rosary from the Blessed Lady. I wonder sometimes if maybe the good Saint didn't have a good PR going for himself. As you can see I do have problems
In Islam , Jesus peace and blessings be upon him, is a prophet of God, and he is sent to deliver a message. He is one of the 5 best people to ever walk the earth. He is mentioned in chapter 3 (family of Imran) of the quran, and also in chapter 19 (Mary) amongst other chapters. You can give it a read and see what you think about it bro. Good luck.
I was baptized as an infant due to my Irish Catholic heritage. Then turned Baptist in my first marriage of 17 long years with no children, then was nothing for awhile until I was forced to marry again - since I still could not think for myself - and stupidly went back to Catholicism (where I was not socially accepted due to my 1st divorce and remarriage) then I stopped believing (began to think for myself after my second divorce). Hating being alone, I then joined an Independent Baptist church once again. (Having been classically trained, I played the piano for free in all these churches, btw.) But when the pastor of this last church complained that my hair was short (some independents do not allow women to cut or braid their hair, wear makeup, or uncover their arms or wear jeans, shorts, or slacks), I just quit at 75 years of age. Now I am online all the time (during the COVID-19 isolation) listening to all the great talks given by Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Matt Dillahunty and the gang, Dan Barker, Bart Ehrman, among others and loving it. I no longer have to believe the bible, a virgin mother, "saints" and their scary teachings, or that there is a purgatory, a heaven or a hell. I am now free to wear a bikini on the beach, and I cut my own hair to suit my liking. Hope you too can give up your problems as you say you have. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself." - President Roosevelt
23:30 Yes this concept has a huge stabilizing effect on societies. Which in turn increases the intervals between major societal upheavals that would otherwise keep pushing the whole society back to the economic collapse with all it's consequences - extreme poverty and mass starvation. As of which factors contribute to the newfound belief that giving to the poor is not necessary on the individual level... The statistics is very clear about that. That only happens in communities where people start to believe it's state's business to redistribute wealth, not their personal responsibility. Effectively, you replace your God with State, that's how you end up not believing in giving to the poor. keyword is: "Cultural Christianity". That's the only case. Where that hasn't happened, people still give their own personal wealth away to the poor like before. So there dear Bart. Sometimes gotta take a look in the mirror and admit the truth as it is. Might be a little unpleasant at times. So what.
I can't listen to this guy for too long . Paul had a supernatural encounter with God and was converted through the power of Christ. That's all there is to it. Gospel is very simple message. Those who are born of God do not continue in sin, those who are not will continue in sin. Simple message and the rest of the bible is a way to live that life in obedience.
Your biblical points Bart are more inline with Seventh-day Adventists. You know, the denomination of a past teacher's assistant of yours, named Carl Cosaert now a professor at Walla Walla University. The body and the spirt (breath) make a living soul. Gen 2:7. We don't have a soul, we ARE a soul. A dead soul is sort of a misnormer. Even Strong defines it as a "living animal." Sheol is the grave, to which we all go. Greek dualism has invaded the Church. But then, it invaded Judaism also, beginning in the late 4th century B.C.E. and certainly by the time of Antiochus IV in the mid second century B.C.E.
I would live to see Bart read and write about Islamic Last day. I understand that this is not his field and would need him learning new field. Islam happens to have to most say in Judgement day par none. Dr. Yasir Qadhi has a series about this. Don't know how far along he is into this series.
Sheol in the Old Testament is not death after death (06:33) Ecclesiastes, Jobe, David in Kings and Psalms, Isaiah and others provide an extensive outlook of what sheol is. David talks about salvation, his baby being in Heaven and other subtle passages from scripture talk about that. The biggest revelation about the afterlife is given by Jesus. Have a blessed day.
How is he lives in New Jersey and works at Chapel Hill North Carolina.. That's 7 hours of driving.. How does that all works out? Can someone answer this?
But " It would be presumptuous to say that *Jehovah's Witnesses are the only channel God is using"- ( * "we" as said by Governing body member Jeffrey Jackson of the Jehovah's Witnesses, on day 8 of the Australian Royal Commission on child sexual abuse. )
The Resurrection from the dead (winter/slavery/blindness) takes place at the spring equinox, every year. Out of Egypt (winter) I have called my Sun. Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley.
Dr. Bart if you yourself have said that the Bible has so many mistakes in it through the centuries, then how do you believe in it? Then it is NOT any more the word of God. Either the bible is false or you are a false in your believe.
HEAVEN IS REAL AND HELL IS ALSO REAL , If u r saying hell is not real then justify this verse Mark 9:48 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. 2 Peter 2: 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;
I was made to be terrified of hell as a very young girl (I'm 75 now) but no longer believe. Dr. Ehrman has has given the best explanation I have heard so far for the evolution of the concepts of heaven and hell, particularly the hell one. No priest or pastor has ever even broached the subject (I wonder why?)
Thanks Bart. You have made a great and loving service to humanity through your talks and books. And should a truly loving god actually exist, I hope to thank you again in heaven. :))
I'm sorry you were terrorised, Me too I ended up in a mental health hospital for a few weeks and fighting ocd for my entire last decade from early 20s to late 30s now. Terrorified of not being forgiven. Appalling to do this to people. Eternal damnation is easily the worst human idea in all of human history. And that's saying something. Glad it's nonsense. Take care
YOU EVER SEEN THAT FILM ''THE BURNING HELL''
@@19perception83
The Resurrection from the dead (winter/slavery/blindness) takes place at the spring equinox, every year. Out of Egypt (winter) I have called my Sun. Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley.
P3RC3PT10N I’m going thru the same thing right now. I have had severe ocd all my life and now it’s turned into religious ocd. I’m terrified of hell
You re still young tho....
Dr, we need a whole video on Sheol. This is a contentious topic online.
Thank you for what you do!
Bart has such a zest for understanding and study of the actual historical foundations of Christianity. It saddens me to no end, that the masses of Christians do not.
Its actually super interesting to study but also frustrating because if you learn a lot of it and then try to talk to people about it you end up banging your head up against a wall
You can't enjoy understanding if you don't do the work to get there.
Memorizing holy words and singing songs is not it. You have to want mental freedom.
Hi Mike. Some 40 years ago when I was a biblical fundamentalist believer I studied for 2 years to become a minister of religion and there we had a scripture lecturer from Oxford Uni who told us about "textual & literary criticism" which is what Bart is on about (I think). I came away from those lectures realising that the Gospels are possibly not a historical and scientific account of what Jesus said or did. I can tell you my fellow students were seething in bewilderment, frustration and anger at this revelation.
I think to remain a Christian knowing these new understandings takes time, patience and a broadening of ones mind.
I personally think most church leaders have tried to shelter their flocks from this new information because they do not believe they will have enough maturity to handle it and because they fear that they will loose respect and control by letting this be known.
It's a question of weather we want to have an adult faith or remain with the faith of an infant.
Been following Bart Ehrman for a few yr.s and admire him and his work. We could use more like Bart. I hear kindness in his voice, the way he chooses his words, even when he crushes ignorance.
Just an amazing knowledge of the Biblical texts. Thanks Professor
That's Bart Ehrman for you ! The man is truly outstanding in his field.
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Union î
He is a good Jedi knight!!!! Keeper of the ancient knowledge!!!!!!
As ever, Bard Ehrman's scholarship is outstanding, and his way of presenting it convincing, unpretentious, and inviting. Bravo!
It is of course Bart D. Ehrman, not "Bard", but, then again, he IS something of a Bard-like figure. And very effective in so being!
Bart is an engaging scholar. Ms. Castro did a great job.. Her diction is clear and her commentary concise.
Thank you, professor. I wrote my final dissertation on history grade must supported by your books, more than 10 years ago (in Brazil). After reading Plato and Philo, I started considering that the historical Jesus, not only the gospels, may have been more Greek influence than we usually are able to accept. Not only on his speaches about afterlife, but mainly on his ethical teachings. If it's not the case, it's certain that early christians made the cultural sincretism.
Particularly in the gospel of Paul I think
Perhaps in the Gospel of John, Pauline epistles but not really the Synoptic gospels. I think it may be more accurate to say that the Xtians who twisted his ideas had more Greek influence than he did - they being from Rome and elsewhere in the Roman Empire, him being an Aramaic speaking Jew in Israel...
I pre-ordered this book on audible and so far I love it! Three hours and fifty one minutes to go and I can't wait to finish it!
I just bought, for my 77 year old father’s birthday, Bart’s book, “The Triumph of Christianity”.
He’s been a Christian for most of his life. If he actually reads it, that would be as miraculous as him turning on a computer for the first time. He loves to read, and he loves history. So, I’m curious to hear his take on the book.
This was great! It’s helped to clear up several issues for me. I’ve listened several times, and will listen again.
I have never seen a more lively presentation about life after death !! Thanks
I am a deist (not a Christian believer per se), and I really enjoy learning from Dr. Ehrman. He is a wealth of knowledge. And someday I would like to have some time to read his literature. Someday.
The Resurrection from the dead (winter/slavery/blindness) takes place at the spring equinox, every year. Out of Egypt (winter) I have called my Sun. Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley.
Start with forged
Great to see Bart crushing it, another excellent presentation.
It's amazing the mental calisthenics people are forced to subject themselves to if they make wrong assumptions.
God:
I am your god who loves you and is looking out for you.
But I will not tolerate you doubting my words or questioning my authority.
Surrender your critical thinking or spend eternity burning in hell.
I love you and would sacrifice my only son for your sake.
Me:
Dear Yahweh,
Oh, alright, but when will Jesus bring the pork chops? (borrowed from George Carlin).
I love Ehrman talks. Facts vs Fairytales.
I dont know if there is an afterlife but heres why i think there is a need for it to exist to make our existence here meaningful.
Firstly, if we are simply cogs that keep the civilisation machine spinning endlessly, than the individual is not an end but a means that may or may not provide value. In this case we have no reason to value someones life, goals, desires & suffering from 1820 or from 355 BC since they are long gone & we have no obligation to care or feel sorry for their struggles.
Secondly, moral efforts without some sort of afterlife or accountability & consequences makes morality a game based on luck & chance rather than fair ends. Whoever gets happy is lucky & whoever suffers is unfortunate & simply a product of chance. This places a superficial meaning to morality as survival of the fittest & insults moral efforts that fail to bear fruits or bear their full effects.
Thirdly, in the absence of an afterlife we have no right to accuse someone else who’s goal and purpose in life is simply money and pleasure to be more altruistic as long as they aren’t causing any major suffering to anybody. Yet we still think that someone who works hard towards ideals such as justice, peace etc are more moral or admirable than someone who’s main concern is simply their survival and hedonistic goals. This can only make sense from the perspective that the moral struggle has consequences on society and collective group as a whole which is based on maximising the collective happiness whilst preserving personal freedoms. This is the utopian ideal of heaven. You cannot maximise the collective happiness if you are ignoring individuals happiness as irrelevant or luck based. Morality then becomes an illusion of feeding the human need for purpose and dislike of nihilism.
Fourthly, It is common sense that we want to honour noble people or noble acts, altruistic acts, we want these people to be rewarded we don’t want their efforts to go to waste. It is considered morally unjust and disgusting when people who don’t deserve are raised and honoured or given fame or happiness whilst others who do great deeds go unnoticed. If you call morality a lofty ideal, than we cannot let the good be wasted. Why else do we feel strong bursts of emotion at injustices or at selfless acts of goodness.
Fifthly, At the objective level it is necessary to have reward and punishment as we objectively believe that good deeds should not be wasted and good people are most deserving of happiness whilst bad people deserve punishment. At the subjective level, this should not mean that we do moral acts out of selfish reward for heaven or fear of hell.
@OTO TAKE That may be true but it is fallacious to use this to prove the truth of any religion. Each belief stands or falls on it's own merits. It is obvious to me that the Judaic tradition, as followed by the three major monotheistic religions, is not only filled with irrational beliefs opposed by science but constitute a belief system that requires the denial of obvious facts. What does warm soup have going for it? While not proven, there is at least some science behind it.
Excellent, loved this one. Will be getting the book as soon as I can. Thnx for upload.
I've seen bart ehrman lecture and debate but this is the first video I watched that really shows just how knowledgeable he is. One of his debates was incredible when he looks like he got blown away and your thinking how is he gonna recover from that but then he wipes the floor with his opponent. Your the best bart!
bart is awesome. thank you for this interview.
Absolutely fascinating. This man is breaking down the allegedly divine nature of the bible. Highlighting inconsistencies such as not really having a consistent, coherent view of the afterlife shows the bible in its true colours. Keep going Dr. Ehrman!
That Bible is not reliable and has been interpolated by unknown authors?
I love the passion you have Bart. Really enjoying your videos and have started to read some of your books. Would throroughly recommend them to one and all!
Professor. How do you feel about teaching children the idea of torture forever ? It terrified me I’m 70 now.
Reading the book of revelation helped me understand it is book by sadists.
I wouldn’t want to answer for Bart Ehrman but given his views on suffering in the world and how his inability to reconcile it with a good god has led him away from Christianity I think it’s a pretty safe bet that he’s not in favor of it. If you’re interested, he’s written a book about this: God’s Problem
dineshdharme common misconception of hell. Where does the Bible say hell is torture ?
Bart don't teach that. He acctualy is an agnostic, and atheist at all ends.
How would you explain the cruelty happening in the world right now to kids?
The 80 percent of the world's wealth is with only 7 percent of people, how drug companies use villages in Africa for their trials, how people desperately want to teach kids that it is ok to be gay and some even go to the extent of glorifying homosexuality.
This is what the Bible teaches,
That in the last days people will be selfish going after money and sex with absolutely no morals whatsoever..
Great Dr Ehrman....great as usual
Thanks for this Bart
I can't imagine why people think there is life after death. I have no recollection of a life before birth, so why would there be a life after the end of life. Blank, we're born consciousness develops, and we grow and change, and we die, back to blank.
Castro & Bart👍
Keep safe both of you😊
I love that if you Google Bart Ehrman you get links to the many scholarly texts, popular books and lectures and interviews; along with a tad of books and lectures by folk whom seem to feel upset by Bart Ehrman. You know you've achieved fame when others write books saying your books are no good.
A fascinating discussion
Thank you for sharing this!
I just love this guy as a story teller. Always enlightening. Nice to know there is an ancient religion where it is believed that when you die you're gone. Kaput. Scary but rational. My question to Dr. Ehrman as I have asked before is: When we talk about historical Jesus, shouldn't we be reminded that he would not know what "Jesus" meant. At least some of the stories may be attributed to a man named Joshua ben Joseph? I find it funny when we talk about Clark Kent by his Superman personae.
Great discussion, Bart!
Tough questions,good answers
The part where you changed your mind about Zoroastrianism and views of the afterlife are new to me. I wonder what would happen to other religions if they all had serious scholars like you look into their beliefs and history.
Dear Clare, your smiles are just hillarious 😊
Very informative. Thanks so much.
Four Views on Hell is just an incredible book. It was required reading for a class at my Bible College. I think they thought it would show that obviously only their view of hell made any sense. But they accidentally helped make me an atheist haha.
Geli That is like me studying theology made me an atheist. It’s so wonderful to have a mind free to examine all ideas, look into other faiths and not be burdened by a dogmatic belief in anything. Also not feel any guilt because you found God wanting.
Bart is an honest historian.
I used to be terrified of hell. I didn't know anything about hell until religious people told me all about it. I was just a child and they were adults so I believed them. So glad I woke up after about 50 yrs of fear. I never would have thought up a place like hell on my own. Those people that did this to me should go to prison for committing emotional abuse on me.
In the beginning God said "Let there be light". Who was he talking to? ??
would be better if he had said , let there be time ,
for ''light'' to exist , you need ''time'' first , no ?
and how did that first sound travel ?
we used to lock up people who talked to themselfs , now they just walk around this planet by the billions !!
that's the scary thing about all this , you never know What they might do or think
dangerous is a word that doesn't even come Close to all this nonsense
His imaginary friend.
Better question is after Adam ate the fruit God said, “he has ate of the tree of good and evil he we must kick him out before he becomes like US!”
I summarized but God said “becomes like US”
Trenchant analysis and helpful insights as usual. I had long wondered if Zoroastrian, Buddhist, and Hindu concepts of death and afterlife influenced Judaism and Christianity. It is very interesting that it turns out to be unlikely.
Wikipedia tells me that Plato's idea of Tarturus was temporary for most souls, that all but the worst would eventually be purified and move on. Some Christians thought similarly, of course, but it's curious that on the whole this idea was not preserved.
20:58, I knew that Gehenna was not Hell, but this is the first I've heard of it referring literally rather than metaphorically to the valley of the same name. But Jesus mentions it in the context of God's judgement, and it is humans who bury your body, so that doesn't sit right.
49:00 I am certainly familiar with Protestant speculations about ideas that are similar to Purgatory at first glance. In some of these ideas, it is more like a hospital recovery room than a prison. What Protestantism tends to preclude is not such speculations per se, but being dogmatic about them.
What about the story of Lazarus? Isn't that an example of eternal hellfire before the time of Paul?
16:36 - 18:22 that actually explains everything!
Fantastic intellectual
Great short analysis, shouldn't Purgatory be mentioned at the end?
I just finished reading Heaven And Hell. And while I think it is an excellent book, it's a shame that Dr. Ehrman doesn't analyze the influence of Egyptian and Indo-Iranian concepts of the afterlife on the Greeks and Jews. It makes sense why he didn't, because they are outside his bailiwick, but a more thorough analysis would have been more illuminating. Maybe one day a scholar will attempt it.
Write it yourself!
I would happily read it :-)
U can help him out Mr it is a shame
Hey Bart, I really appreciate these ideas, thank you! The clarification about sheol, hades and gehenna are interesting. But HELP...!
I’m curious how the claim can be made that Jesus wasn’t teaching at least some concept of hell or heaven. All the gospels have uses of the word “heaven” (οὐρανοῦ, οὐρανῶν, οὐρανοῖς). It’s mostly used to refer to where the Father is (such as the Lord’s Prayer) or in the phrase “kingdom of...” Does this refer to the sky or galaxy and space, or air? The same idea is in the Jewish scripture too where the prophet Elijah “...went up by a whirlwind into heaven” 2 King 2: 11
What does this refer to in a more metaphysical way? What is this “kingdom of heaven”? Why is the Father upward?
And the idea of “hell” is in the gospels too, such as Matthew 25: 46 saying that those who don’t serve the “least of these” will “go away into eternal punishment”. Or a few places with langue such as “unquenchable fire” or “eternal fire” especially Matthew 18: 8-9 and Mark 9: 43-48. I’m not talking about the use of the word gehenna which is translated hell, I’m curious about the concept Jesus could be teaching about. Only twice in the gospels is an alternate use of the word gehenna in Matthew 23: 15 and 33 which is notable and just generally some of the uses of the word are much more confusing than simply a reference to the valley outside of the city; such as Matthew 10: 28: “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul/life. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul/life and body in hell/Gehenna.”
Also why would Jesus say “today you will be with me in paradise” to the repentant thief before they both died? (not assuming paradise is the same as this new Christian idea of heaven or anything)
I’m really curious about the ideas that Jesus did actually teach and not what Christianity claims. And Jesus definitely teaches something about heaven/sky as a place or kingdom and about a fire that doesn’t cease. So what could be the understanding of these in context? Do you address this in your Heaven & Hell book? Also does it have any bearing that nearly all of this talk appears in only Matthew?
Thanks
Since I started my Podcast have spirit / angels from heaven joined me and talked about the after-life. Today there is no one who can persuade me that there is no life after death.
Where did Plato get his info/myths/beliefs ? Where did the Hebrews get their stories/myths/ religious beliefs? Ancient Egypt; Sumeria; Babylon etc... that came before them or influenced the Hebrews while they were in captivity in those lands ?
Broader question is how did consciousness evolve or come into being.
The answer to your question though is people observing each other for long long long periods of time and mapping out patterns of behavior that characterize humanity
Bart, what about the reference in the New Testament where people are sent to a place where there is weeping and nashing of teeth?
People are sent to outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Looks like multiple references to it in the book of Matthew. Is that hell?
@@fairfield0037 Could have been added later (put on Jesus's lips) when people started believing in a hell of the after life. As was the one where the Jesus character supposedly repeatedly said, "where the worm never dies," Those verses always terrified me to keep in line as a little girl - along with millions of other children. And so Christianity thrived.
The dead sleepeth in the grave until Jesus second coming.
Did the Apostle John write the Book of Revelation ?
Eyes Open in California
According to Dr Bar the 4 gospels are anonymous .
No.. We don't have any proofs of that, but even if it was written by him, but it's impossible that he was an eye witness to everything he wrote, plus if he wrote some from other eyewitnesses, we would like to know which eyewitnesses narrated what and whether they were known to be trustworthy....If we apply such approach to every single story to the gospels, they will all fail. Hence, the bible is full of fabrications!!!!!
@@marianacanas6510
The first four apostles were sons of Horus at Canopus Egypt.
@@TA-vu9se
I understand the logic being used here. I too, doubt many things written in the bible because the foolish imaginations of men corrupted scripture plus the church was run into the dirt by greed. The Book of Acts has more holes than swiss cheese and Paul is not an Apostle nor EVER was. He persecuted and stole the scriptures from the early Christians for 2 years before he dissapeared to Arabia for 3 years to study them. But that was after regaining sight from Ananias who nobody knows. Also the story of Ananias and Saphira was convenient for the church to get their tithes paid in full. Both Ananais stories are suspicious to me. If one wants to insert their agenda into the bible, just say Ananias did it. Really? Nope, I ain't drinking the Koolaid. Once saved always saved turned into the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. Paul told us who he saw on the road to Damascus in 2Cor 11:13-14. Barnabas ran off with Real Apostle John for a reason that nobody seems to bat an eye at but I did. Paul stopped people from doing "works" which Jesus told us specifically to do while keeping the Commandments of God. I understand that Paul stopped the Jews from being Jews and the Christians from doing works. Another thing is that they all spoke Aramaic, so.... where are the Aramaic scriptures? I assure you they exist, somewhere. Probably up the popes rear. I am positive that Jesus's prophecies are coming true though. In fact, I know they are.
I AM a believer unto death and I'll ellaborate as to why: it's a feeling that is within, walking by faith and not by sight. The deal-sealer for me are the dreams that I have and the goosebumps I get. Really...the goosebumps. I can't make them appear unless I think of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They appear immediately when I pray. Nobody ever found a fossil of a goosebump nor a bumpy scripture. I know this makes no sense to a non-believer but that is the point. To hear and not understand. So I challenge you, get baptized. The "feeling" will be all the confirmation you'll need. Walking by faith because we can't trust our eyes in the devil's world. This is a game for souls and I think the devil's winning. The 1 world religion that is going to sweep the world will be confirmation that what I'm saying is true. It will be the worship of the evil one. This IS very real my friend. Take that leap of faith. 🙏
@@EyesOpeninCaliforniaDreams So it's all in your head then?
Why didn’t you start in Egypt (Kemet) where this all started?
Thank you Bart. Is your book on heaven and hell available in Russian already?
I've often wondered to what extent Egyptian afterlife theories and doctrines may have affected Isrealite ideas (whether or not Isreal came from Egypt - either way they were close neighbors).
Morning from South Africa Dr Bart Ehman. At 17:12 to 18:10 you mentioned things that are very captivating. I would like to know if the historian Jesus Christ and what the gospel claims that he said is true about heaven and hell. For example
Luke 16:22-25
King James Version
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
From this passage of the text it seems as if the parable about Rich Man and Lazarus gives the idea that people somehow will receive a different rewards after Life. Based on what you said about historical Jesus Christ, could this passage of the text actually contradict what you already presented?
Or should we take the entire writings of the New Testment as being influenced by the Greeks theological viewpoints?
I am saying this because the New Testment is known as "Greek Scriptures".
Lastly. The Apostles mentioned in the New Testment is it possible that they were influenced by the Greeks theological viewpoints about heaven and hell? Or should the ideas of Jesus Christ in the New Testment be considered as the ideas of Jesus Christ of the New Testment and not the historical Jesus Christ?
Personally I enjoy living here or rather the life on this earth. Even though the world is full of suffering, I don't envision myself living somewhere after this life.
Please assist me with those questions. Thanks in advance😊
Since the death of Jesus, the researchers into reincarnation have expanded the concept notably. Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many mansions." This is interpreted to mean that you create your own heaven or hell in the afterlife. Depending upon your state of consciousness, you may experience bliss or torture due to your own state of mind. Thoughts are things, and the soul is collectively your thoughts, feelings, preferences, and memories irrespective of the physical body left behind. What you take with you after death is your thoughts, feelings, preferences, and memories. Those who respect Jesus suspect he taught such things despite the flawed copies of such scripture to the contrary. "Ye are gods". Our true identity is as spiritual beings. "...and they can no longer die because they are like the angels".
Good. Como eu queria todos os seus livros traduzidos para o portugues.
Professor Ehrman I wish you would focus more on Paul and his explicitly universalistic statements in 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 5:18, Romans 11:32, and many other passages that clearly are teaching either a universal resurrection or a final reconciliation of all things (colossians 1:19-20 another example). The Pastoral epistles are rife with it as well. It did not start with origen, it didn't even start with Clement, it started with Paul.
SAY KEVIN YOU MEAN A RECONCILIATION OF ALL THINGS EVERY PERSON THAT EVER LIVED INCLUDING NEANDERTHALS AND SATAN? I'M JUST CURIOUS
Kevin: How do we know Paul existed?
I have never heard Dr. Ehrman use so many nonfluencies in any lecture.. and I've seen practically every one available online. He seemed to get better as he got rolling but uhhh in the uhhh beginning uhhhh it was uhhh tough to uhh listen to.
As usual, he is still a fountain of knowledge that I really enjoy listening to.
Harlan Harvey he always uuuh uuuuhs at the beginning to seem humble...which he is not!
It might be signs of aging
Ehrman is a national treasure!
It is funny how beliefs change over time....
If you want to find flaws in any religious teachings let alone all holy books, you will definitely find lots of them. You can argue all day long on words by words.. fron Torah, Injeel and Quran. The fact is Jesus was crucified and ressurected after 3 days. There are evidence besides from The Apostles, such as notes from Jewish Historian called Flavius Josephus and Rome Senator named Cladius Tacitus. Now, if there was a single man through any human history recorded whom could conquer The Death, dont you want to follow Him ??? Do not always connect Jesus with holy bible cause all were written by men.. and with many intentions that might not be suitable in the modern days. As far as Heaven and Hell.. no body has visited there including you, professor, so all we have to do just having faith in it not arguing whether they exist or not.
You realize the story of jesus conquering death isnt a unique one right?
I just ordered a blue tooth speaker so I can listen to Bart in my front yard and the rest of the neighborhood! 😂
So it seems clear that Jesus believed only in a physical resurrection of the righteous. But for Paul, was the resurrection physical or spiritual, i.e. occurring in the heavens in a spiritual body?
Bart, your blog..........you have beaten me into submission!
I think Ehrman missed the introduction to the question about Egyptian influence - "considering Hebrew slavery in Egypt". Assuming this refers to the Exodus story about the Egyptian period, the answer should have started with "Since the Exodus story about the Hebrew slavery in Egypt is entirely fictional...".
Egypt might certainly have influenced thoughts and ideas all over the Middle East, but the Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt as a people. Exodus is an entirely fictional story meant to unite a culture, not to re-tell actual history.
It is extremlely rare to meet a "Christian" who understands the first page of the O.T. The primary meaing of Egypt, Babylon, and Ethiopia is nothing more than the ancient winter season. Egypt certainly did influence the bible assemblers. The bible is divided into a number of the ancient seasons of the year. Genesis one divided the year into six months of "summer" (light greater than darkness, and six months of "winter" or six months of darkness.
The O.T. character Ham/Am, is copied from the Egyptian Khem. The Israelites (Greeks) took Gold (sun - solar myths, Silver (moon - lunar myths), and Jewels (stars - stellar myth) out of Egypt.
The Resurrection from the dead (winter/slavery/blindness) takes place at the spring equinox, every year. Out of Egypt (winter) I have called my Sun. Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley.
Unless of course the hebrews were actually the Habiru or (Hapiru) which was a slur not an ethnicity. They most certainly were slaves in Egypt.
A.T.
The Exodus story is fictional. That’s my point. Also, slavery wasn’t all that common in Egypt and the pyramids were built by Egyptian work teams, not (to any major degree) slaves.
“I assume it is pretty close to the originals” - Professor Bart
Wow just wow 😳
Bart's points coincide with 'Unseen realms' on youtube presented by Dr. Michael Heiser
Can you tell me what Christians believe that we become angels..All the Christians I know believe we get brand new bodies
Zoroastrianism had the idea that souls would be purified by passing through a river of molten silver, the very wicked would perish, and the good would have all their impurities purged by this passage. Is this a predecessor to the concept of purgatory?
Also, there is the concept of guardian angels in Zoroastrianism - was this taken up by Christians later?
How about alchemy?
But in the parable Jesus talks about the rich man in the torment of the flames...
Powerless and Witless.. I love it.
I can accept, that the idea of heaven and hell came from the Hellenistic period, but I don't understand how can we say that ancient Israelites didn't believe in a separate spirit or that the idea of eternal life came at the very end on the Bible. The story of calling out the spirit of Samuel and the stories of Enoch and Elijah being pulled up to live with God for an eternity are not ideas from the end of the bible. They are written in 2 Samuel, Genesis and 2 Kings (written in about 800-600 BC) which are all part of the Old Testament canon. So these beliefs were part of early judaism.
Hello! How about the fact that the universe has the magnetic/dielectric force as part of its Design? That means that we are an material manifestation of that two-in-one force(s) and that at conception, the first electro/magnetic point of the individual's creation? That means that the body and all subsequent electrochemical events of every cell of the body; thoughts, emotions and concepts we all consider are included in that individual's life, and which science considers as being eternal as radiation/data and only subject to change not extinction. In that regard, and in Epistemologym the correct philosophy of not knowing the Unknowable and that Agnosticism the only philosophy that doesn't require belief and faith to adopt it as correct? The Soul may be real and 'attached' to the body and justifies Pascal's 'Wager' to live by the 'Golden Rule' and consider the odds as being on their side of the bet?
tongmaa If the soul was proven real, why would that prove Christianity real to satisfy Pascal's wager?
Pascal's Wager is flawed because it only posits two options, the Christian god or no god. But there are countless thousands of god options along with the no god option and also just pretending to believe in the Christian god would not work with an omniscient god anyway.
The "Electric Universe" isn't a thing. It's pseudoscience.
I’m a Seventh-day Adventist and in our doctrine we teach soul sleep until the resurrection. However, we feel that the Bible is consistent, that Paul taught it as well throughout his life. When he said to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord he was talking not about death, but rather being taken to heaven in vision.
Doesnt that all come down to how you want to interpret the text then?
What i dont understand why take a subject like this from the bible,when EVEN ITS CORE DOCTRINES ARE NOT CLEAR,TRINITY BEING ONE OF THEM!! Bit fruitless and speculative at best..
The bible does not teach any trinity. The sole reference in the new testament was inserted by a scribe or student ~ easily checkable.
David said the following after his son died, clearly not all Jews believed that people will be just destroyed after death. They believed that people went to a place.
But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” 2Samuel 12:23
41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. 42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13: 41&42
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46
According to the Bible Jesus Christ did speak about Heaven and Hell. If the Bible cannot be trusted because it was written years after Jesus Christ, what text do you have that tells exactly what Jesus Christ said. What's the basis of your claim that historical Jesus believed that people will not go to Hell, but will be destroyed?
There's only one reason why anybody would go to Heaven - accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
There's only one reason why anybody would go to Hell - rejecting Jesus Christ.
There are murderers in Heaven and Hell. Our evil deeds doesn't get us to Hell nor does our good deeds get us to Heaven!
Reincarnation does appear in some Jewish literature. Often translated as 'transmigration' in prayer books.
She didn't call him Dr. I was like shocked lmao
My man!
The question on the blind guy : Was he born blind because his parents sinned? Meaning, his blindness was his parents' punishment for their sin + there's a biblical precedent for punishing children for their parents' sin.
They start with beliefs then use mental gymnastics to try make everything fit.
Did Jesus Know He was God Almighty ??
Tarik Ramadaan No, because he never said he was. He’s an honorable Prophet and Messenger of God. Many evidences can prove he wasn’t God.
did jesus exist?
Tarik Ramadaan Bart has been over this a thousand times.
Zak Muhammad Did Mohammed know he was a pedophile?
@@zakmuhammad9499 Other than that quip in John 8:58: "Before Abraham was, *I am* ," (for which they rightly tried to stone him). Other than that, God, in the Gospels, knows things that Jesus doesn't know, can do things that Jesus can't do, and Jesus still needs to "pray" to The Father, so even from a Biblical perspective, it doesn't make sense to say that they're the same entity.
I am either a Catholic/Protestant or a Protestant/ Catholic....I was raised in a "fundamentalist" church, but became a Catholic when i was an adult.. i have trouble though with the belief in purgatory and in Marian devotion....I believe that God looks thru the prism of Jesus's righteousness, and does not see our sin. Such as, If I went to confession, received absolution , and had an accident on the way home. Just be fore i died i said "God damn bastard' then I had the sin of taking God's name in vain. So, that is why i believe that God uses Jesus's righteousness as a prism to view us. I can't see how there can be a purgatory. I must admit that it took a HUGE leap of faith for a young 12 -13 year old Jewish girl to accept the mission of bearing the Son of God. Considering the culture at the time. But, it wasn't until the 3rd c that Marian devotion came to be celebrated by the Church. Then in the 13th c St Dominic (supposedly) received the Rosary from the Blessed Lady. I wonder sometimes if maybe the good Saint didn't have a good PR going for himself. As you can see I do have problems
Why do you belive in God? What is your reasons for believing in a supernatural or non-empirical deity?
In Islam , Jesus peace and blessings be upon him, is a prophet of God, and he is sent to deliver a message. He is one of the 5 best people to ever walk the earth. He is mentioned in chapter 3 (family of Imran) of the quran, and also in chapter 19 (Mary) amongst other chapters. You can give it a read and see what you think about it bro. Good luck.
I was baptized as an infant due to my Irish Catholic heritage. Then turned Baptist in my first marriage of 17 long years with no children, then was nothing for awhile until I was forced to marry again - since I still could not think for myself - and stupidly went back to Catholicism (where I was not socially accepted due to my 1st divorce and remarriage) then I stopped believing (began to think for myself after my second divorce). Hating being alone, I then joined an Independent Baptist church once again. (Having been classically trained, I played the piano for free in all these churches, btw.) But when the pastor of this last church complained that my hair was short (some independents do not allow women to cut or braid their hair, wear makeup, or uncover their arms or wear jeans, shorts, or slacks), I just quit at 75 years of age. Now I am online all the time (during the COVID-19 isolation) listening to all the great talks given by Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Matt Dillahunty and the gang, Dan Barker, Bart Ehrman, among others and loving it.
I no longer have to believe the bible, a virgin mother, "saints" and their scary teachings, or that there is a purgatory, a heaven or a hell. I am now free to wear a bikini on the beach, and I cut my own hair to suit my liking.
Hope you too can give up your problems as you say you have. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself." - President Roosevelt
The Roman empire did have a pre-Christian welfare system. It was centred on italy but it was more than bread and circuses though
23:30 Yes this concept has a huge stabilizing effect on societies. Which in turn increases the intervals between major societal upheavals that would otherwise keep pushing the whole society back to the economic collapse with all it's consequences - extreme poverty and mass starvation.
As of which factors contribute to the newfound belief that giving to the poor is not necessary on the individual level... The statistics is very clear about that. That only happens in communities where people start to believe it's state's business to redistribute wealth, not their personal responsibility. Effectively, you replace your God with State, that's how you end up not believing in giving to the poor. keyword is: "Cultural Christianity". That's the only case. Where that hasn't happened, people still give their own personal wealth away to the poor like before.
So there dear Bart. Sometimes gotta take a look in the mirror and admit the truth as it is. Might be a little unpleasant at times. So what.
Nearly 4 minutes in and you've said nothing.
I can't listen to this guy for too long . Paul had a supernatural encounter with God and was converted through the power of Christ. That's all there is to it. Gospel is very simple message. Those who are born of God do not continue in sin, those who are not will continue in sin. Simple message and the rest of the bible is a way to live that life in obedience.
Rajiv jaigopal wadhwa true bro
Everyone sins.... all have fallen short of the glory of God.
Your biblical points Bart are more inline with Seventh-day Adventists. You know, the denomination of a past teacher's assistant of yours, named Carl Cosaert now a professor at Walla Walla University. The body and the spirt (breath) make a living soul. Gen 2:7. We don't have a soul, we ARE a soul. A dead soul is sort of a misnormer. Even Strong defines it as a "living animal." Sheol is the grave, to which we all go. Greek dualism has invaded the Church. But then, it invaded Judaism also, beginning in the late 4th century B.C.E. and certainly by the time of Antiochus IV in the mid second century B.C.E.
I would live to see Bart read and write about Islamic Last day. I understand that this is not his field and would need him learning new field. Islam happens to have to most say in Judgement day par none.
Dr. Yasir Qadhi has a series about this. Don't know how far along he is into this series.
Sheol in the Old Testament is not death after death (06:33) Ecclesiastes, Jobe, David in Kings and Psalms, Isaiah and others provide an extensive outlook of what sheol is. David talks about salvation, his baby being in Heaven and other subtle passages from scripture talk about that. The biggest revelation about the afterlife is given by Jesus. Have a blessed day.
How is he lives in New Jersey and works at Chapel Hill North Carolina.. That's 7 hours of driving.. How does that all works out? Can someone answer this?
Man this is exactly what Jehovah's witnesses have been going about preaching for a whole century.Damn!!!
But " It would be presumptuous to say that *Jehovah's Witnesses are the only channel God is using"- ( * "we" as said by Governing body member Jeffrey Jackson of the Jehovah's Witnesses, on day 8 of the Australian Royal Commission on child sexual abuse. )
The Resurrection from the dead (winter/slavery/blindness) takes place at the spring equinox, every year. Out of Egypt (winter) I have called my Sun. Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley.
This ladies voice is so annoying, I don't know if I'll be able to listen very long.
I’ve always said Christianity is a mixture of Judaism plus Zoroastrianism with some Platonism
The Egyptian Khem became the O.T. Ham/Am.
He´s getting old... - time flies by...
Dr. Bart if you yourself have said that the Bible has so many mistakes in it through the centuries, then how do you believe in it? Then it is NOT any more the word of God.
Either the bible is false or you are a false in your believe.
HEAVEN IS REAL AND HELL IS ALSO REAL , If u r saying hell is not real then justify this verse Mark 9:48 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. 2 Peter 2: 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;
That may as well be a cake recipe. The Bible can't be used to prove the Bible. Try growing up.
Paul converted Christianity into a Greek Mystery Religion with Jesus as the Savior God.
Pretty accurate