cars of the 80s were literally the 2nd generation of terrible design and functionality, and they were the 1st generation of cars that didnt last 10yrs. geeze talk to your elders before making a video. we know we were there and lived through it.
I feel like the 3 reasons given are completely valid, but there's a 4th big one. Sunroof's caught on and provided nearly the same functionality as T tops with nearly none of the drawbacks. You have slightly less space open to the outside, but get a much stronger chassis. On the down side, older Sun roofs do like to leak from time to time.
A big reason why i like T-Tops is getting in and out of a sports car is waaay easier... due to the non existent roof line. Sun roof is nothing like a T-Top or targa
@@jaron312 you have drain lines going from the rain gutter in the sunroof thru the A-pilar down to the front wheel area - if that gets clogged you gonna have issues
@@1DEADBEEF1 I think that’s valid, but niche. I think most people buy a car they can get in and out of easily. While it is not the same, I think most people as far as making a choice between the two when buying a car prefer the hassle free sunroof operation over having to get out and store t-tops for daily use if they want an opening in the top of the car at all… and if it is an important factor for them, prefer a full convertible over a small opening… with that added bonus that again, convertibles are mostly a push button operation.
@@johngaltline9933 old convertibles from that era were noisy rag tops and deadly during a rollover... obviously we are Talking sports cars so People do buy them for sport driving not for ease of access
I always felt the Sun / moon roof in the consumer’s eyes were more practical. No storage problem, way easier to use. If you were out and it started to rain unexpectedly no need to pull over and retrieve tops and put on in the rain. All you have to do with Sun/ moon roof is push a button. Plus there was the issue of having the t tops stolen.
This guy at work has a 4th gen Camaro with a broken T-top on one side. For the love of a new glass he's got it with a heavy duty plastic sheet and an ungodly amount of tape holding it down
@@ScubaSteveM45 I can't even imagine what a glass shop would charge to replace the glass in a t-top. Perhaps point him to eBay...surely he can pick up a full set from a wrecking yard for a few hundred dollars. LOL!
@@laughingalltheway8399 i think that's just the problem. Nobody has one he's looked across the immediate tristate area. Crafting a new piece to fit from a glazier would probably cost as much as current Blue Book for the car as well
@@ScubaSteveM45 Probably so. My uncle is still daily drives an early Fox Body with t-tops and every few years one gets busted and he goes on the hunt for new ones. I've seen him buy a set from a wrecking yard just because he saw them while he was there for something else even when he didn't need them. haha!
One old car feature you might consider making a video on is the digital dashboard. What makes it so interesting is that it was never necessary aside form vanity and 'futurism' but took off in 80s sports cars, died out in the 90s, and here we are over 30 years later and they're starting to make their way into modern cars again, albeit in a different form. The Buick Reatta instantly comes to mind with its digital dash and touch screen... in 1988!
The 1981 Yamaha Virago 920 has an integrated digital dash/instrument cluster. The tachometer was circular shaped and the speed was displayed as 55mph, for example. Had odometer, kph conversion, fuel indicator, etc. Was pretty slick back in the day. Digital was everywhere.
I had a 1992 Cougar with digital dash. Towards the end of its life it started going wonky. Flashed and gauges went berserk. I had to pull over, turn the engine and ignition off and then restart. Like rebooting a computer.
@@laughingalltheway8399 that would be advantageous today in the face of today's glass cockpit dashboards of menus and adjustable screens that are complex and too intricate to read quickly. What if we had modern cars with digital dashes that just had simple marks and numbers so you could quickly see anything you needed in a split second 🤔
I've owned both, and the other issue with t-tops is they didn't quite have the open air feel convertibles had, it's hard to explain unless you drive in both. T-tops also had a lot more turbulence to deal with as the air would get "trapped" in the back of the vehicle giving you a bit less performance and gas mileage, and more air would blow back on the driver compared to a convertible. You also, had them rattle around as they got older (this simply may have been my experience with a GM vehicle). Lastly, and this is just an asthetic/opinion thing, the convertible simply looked better with the top down.
yeah that's right, and also on the Corvette they actually had an optional removable rear window for that reason on the 73 model to help with the turbulence
My 2000 Camaro has T-Tops, and they are plain awesome! They lock safely into place in the hatch, and it doesn't take too long to take them off/put them off, and yes, they surprisingly DON'T leak!
Greetings fellow 2000 Camaro owner. Mine HAD to have T-tops and thankfully that was the more common option. I absolutely love the car and the tops. Mine leak lol
@@txmade4371 never had any problems with mine. Of course, I also checked them out each spring. Still don't have any problems with 'em as a result. Like anything, if you don't take care of it properly, it won't last as long. T-Tops are still my favorite.
Love T-Tops and wish they would come back! Had a couple of Trans Ams and a MR2 Turbo with T-Tops and really enjoyed them. The 78 Trans Am had a bit of a rattle but I discovered if you removed the decorative trim piece of the T-Top handle area the brackets that held the retractable pins could be adjusted. Slightly adjusting the angle that the pins came out took the slack out and tightened them up. The cars were pretty tight though spirited driving over a railroad track would give you a little cowl shake. Surprisingly one of the most rigid open-air cars I owned was a Fiat X19. It had a targa top but seemed as rigid as a coupe. No shakes, leaks or rattles, it's like it was made out of granite. I miss those cars and wish I would have kept a few of them.
My 1986 Mustang GT had T-tops. Removing them required that they be stored in dedicated vinyl sleeves in the hatchback area thus reducing what limited storage was available on a trip. Long term maintenance required treating the rubber gaskets periodically to keep them from drying out and causing the dreaded leaking roof. Still, was a cool feature when driving down the beach in Daytona!
I feel you man. I had an 85 Mustang GT T-top. I had to make cardboard inserts because the Texas sun just beat through them. And, it leaked almost from the day i bought it., But, it did look kool!
I had an 85 Mustang GT with T-Tops in Los Angeles, California. I loved them and, for me, putting them in the vinyl bags was a minor inconvenience. Mine only leaked in heavy rain. Otherwise, I had some rattles on rough roads.
With today’s technology. All those issues have been resolved. For instance, two sunroofs side by side, a bit smaller of course. Auto retractable. They can be carbon fiber.
I had an '88 300ZX with T tops and a 5 speed manual which I kept all thru the 90s. Whipping thru the mountain curves in Colorado with the tops out was a lot of fun. Finding a place to pull over and put the tops back in because a thunderstorm moved in, not so much. I had to store my in bags in the back so there wasn't room for anything else with the tops out. Happier with the sunroof.
I had an old 1987 Nissan Pulsar in high school. Not only did it sport t-tops, it also had a removable rear hatch. I rarely took the hatch off because it was a pain and it could never be left off for long because of security and weather concerns. But I tell you what, it was a fun car to drive as a semi-convertible. I still wish I had that car today!
I agree with your assessment as to why they no longer are made. Maybe you can do a video essay on older cars that had bright light switches on the floor boards? I haven't seen those in years. Or, headlight wipers/washers, you don't see those much either on new cars.
I remember in '93 when I was in the Air Force I got a call out to fix something in the B-52 bombers cockpit that was waiting to takeoff, it was one of those stupid switches on the floor! I guess its used for the landing lights? I was so surprised to see it but it makes sense since they were built in the '50s....
I think headlight washers are still common. European-spec cars require headlights over a certain brightness (HID and LED, basically) to have auto-leveling and washing mechanisms. I think the floor-mounted light switch was phased out because putting them on the turn signal stick was slightly cheaper and more convenient. You can't flash to pass with a floor button that's either low or high. I have a car with a floor-mounted switch and it's annoying to flash the lights or even turn the high beams off sometimes because it's a manual.
@@bwofficial1776 My '67 Volvo also has the hi/lo switch on the floor, agree it's a pain with a manual trans! You can flash the hi-beams by pulling the turn signal stalk, so it's a little bit of both!
Headlight wipers phased out when glass was substituted for plastic - you can’t rub plastic with wipers without damaging it The washers are mandatory on all Xenon headlights where I live Maybe other types like matrix LED not sure
You mean floor mounted headlight dimmers? In practice I never seen anything wrong with them. They made for a less cluttered, complicated, and busy looking steering column.
I had a 95 Z-28 Camaro with T-tops. It was so much fun to drive that thing on one hand. And on the other hand, I constantly had a stack of towels in the car because the passenger side T-top leaked EVERY TIME it rained. The first time I drove it through one of those gas station car washes, my brother was in the passenger seat. When the spray hit that side of the car it shot inside like someone turned the hose on us! It wasn't just "leaking," it was SPRAYING in on both of us! Luckily I had those towels in the backseat already. We each grabbed one and used it as a shield! LOL Man, I miss that car! haha
I had a 91 Camaro. My t tops didn't leak. Well if you used a power washer at the right angel they dripped but in the rain they were fine. I got rid of the car because the girl I was going out with didn't like it. That was a stupid mistake. Also had a fiero with t tops. Rare option for that car. Those leaked. Also if you took them off they had to stay at home. No place to put them. The good old days.
@@TomTom-qm4mq LOL my gf in high school had to deal with at least 6-7 shitboxes (maybe even more) over the course of 4 years of dating. She didn't like the cars, but liked that we could go places at any time with them, so there weren't many complaints. Even gve her a few lessons on manual, resulting in a bent rim and an alignment ;) And because it was a POS, I didn't even care too much.
I had a few 3rd and 4th gen camaros with T-tops and my complaint is that it felt like I was pulling a parachute after like 40mph. The extra drag is noticeable especially on a v6 car.
T-top gang here.. my lil x90 has em and I do love em, I love nothing more than cruising with around topless. I'll give it you tho because they do leak and putting them in their bags to keep them protected is a bit of a pain but still... Love em
T tops were so cool, as a teenager in the 1980’s, my friend and I loved taking his dads “T” top 280Zx out for a cruse , oh and getting a bit sun burnt too :). Thanks for the trip down memory lane - cheers from Brisbane Australia
I bought my wife's first car with T-tops and they leaked, someone tried to steal them twice, and they took up the entire trunk when they were removed. It became such a pain that she never removed them and they simply leaked in the rain. We now have several cars with a sun roof which don't leak, offer much better sun protection when closed and allow us to open them up while driving which we do once or twice a year. Great video.
My Toyota MR2 had a removable sun roof. You could pop it up or optimally remove it and there was a dedicated storage compartment in the front trunk. This was 1986 so yeah. Same kind of thing really. Loved that feature
2 out of my 4 firebirds had them. Loved every minute of them off. My 84 and 85 had them. My 79 and 87 didn't and they also had no A/C. I will own a 88 or 89 formula with t tops someday.
I feel ya, Ken. I had an 85, 86, and 88 Camaro at different times, as well as a 95 Firebird V6. The t-tops in my 86 Z28 always leaked, but on a nice day, ooh, they're neat to have.
Of the 4 Camaros I've owned over the yrs (79 6cyl, 82 Z28 Crossfire, 84 Z28, 88 5.7 TPI IROC Z) only the 88 had T-tops. When I 1st got it the question was always "are we taking the T-tops out?" whenever someone else was going somewhere with me (summer months). They had the effect of making each trip an event of sorts. Sold the car in 06 after falling for the whole "You can't have that car with a baby on the way, it's time to grow up" advice. Today? The baby has turned into a 6'1" 300lb destroyer of groceries, without T-tops. And I'd gladly trade him for my IROC back.
I drove a ‘97 Camaro RS with the t-tops. Absolutely loved that car and in my experience the fit and finish was tight, no leaking even during outright monsoons.
I think this finally answers the question that I had for over 40 years as to why, on the bill of sale for a Trans Am, Pontiac would list the TTop roof as an “H” roof. GM didn’t own the patent to call them TTops.
4:26 Bill Blass edition Lincoln Continental - that thing was a 2 door land yacht! My grandmother had one. She was a tiny old lady with this crazy fear of a car crashing down on her from an overpass. She figured the larger the car she drove, the better the odds that a falling car would impact her hood or trunk, thus improving her odds of survival. For being as big as it was, the thing only had 2 doors, 2 huge, heavy doors! Not a T-top, not even a convertible, but it was cool to see one in the video. Brings back memories!
I absolutely love the targa top miata. they look great both with the roof up and down. and having that roll hoop just makes it feel so much more secure. porsche targa are also among the coolest cars where you can take off the roof for the same reason. looks great with the roof up, loogs great with it down.
They really aren't targas as the rear window goes away as well. And there is no structural safety added there. They still have the supports behind the headrests the same as the soft top. But I def agree about the looks. I have a 2020 polymetal gray RF. LOVE IT! 😀
There used to be (and maybe still is) a company that would convert the newer Camaros into t-tops. I think it was the same company that did the Trans Am conversions. Another video essay idea: high-end sound systems. Back in the 80s you could spend as much as a small car and get a system with a couple modules put in your center console. Head unit, equalizer with sliders, tape deck, maybe even a CD player. Look at some of the Mercedes-Benz customs and you'll see. Today all of that can fit in a single-DIN head unit and sound just as good.
Back in the day you could upgrade a car stereo significantly for a few hundred. A good head unit, a couple of speakers and the sound was transformed. Many cars didn't even come with rear speakers. Now. Virtually everything has at least adequate sound from the factory. A typical setup is a pair of 6.5" components up front and 6.5 coaxials in the rear doors and a reasonably powerful 4 channel head unit.
@@Rapscallion2009 In 1981 I paid $500 for a cassette deck with 2 speakers for a 69 camaro, Not installed. I still have the deck. Have to get it out and see if it works...
Love the content man, you should do one on the old floor mounted foot dimmer switch. A lot of people probably haven't even heard of them. I have a 73 GMC pick up and an 81 Z28 that both have them. Old school tech for sure 👌
@@ChristopherBurtraw The big problem is cost. My Model 3 uses Mercedes turn signals and left stalk, and the dimmer is built into that stalk, so the incremental cost of putting the dimmer in the stalk is functionally zero. To put in a floor dimmer, with, parts, wiring, carpet trimming, installation, etc., could add $100 to the price of a car today.
My favorite was the late 80's Pulsar NX (with pop up headlights), oddball little car, could be a hatch with a t roof, a little wagon with a t roof or a full on sort-of convertible with it all removed. Would love to find one for sale that isn't rusted out or beat to heck.
@@artsmith103 I knew a guy with a black one. I was selling Nissans at the time. Never sold one, and we rarely even had one on the lot. Too bad. Everyone wanted a 240. LoL
I've owned my 88 IROC-Z for 15 years, and I'm one of those "can't believe they don't leak" guys. Funny your video appeared on my feed just now, as my daughter and I just got home from a sunny afternoon drive around downtown Tampa with the tops in the trunk.
Along with another commenter had an '86 Mustang with T Top. Loved it, never leaked and never had a storage problem since the car was seldom taken on a lengthy trip. The downside was chassis flex. Oh my did it flop around - that is until I added Ford accessory frame stiffeners along with strut tower to firewall braces, better shocks and way better tires. Took a bunch of car show trophys with it too since I kept the entire car spotless. My wife hated it with the 'sporty' very stiff ride so we ended up with a T-Bird in '94.
My first new car was a 1977 Olds Cutlass with T-tops. Loved that car and the T-tops even though they leaked. That was a small price to pay for the pleasure the T-tops gave me.
I had a 93 nissan NX2000. It came with T tops. Ooooh it was a such an experience to drive! I loved it. (Bought in 2002, sold it in May 2021) I missed that car the second the keys left my hand.. When I had my tops off there was nothing like it on the road (except for a 300Z) and I modified it too. Had a NEO vvl motor, Vodtland lowering springs, strut bar front and back.. I loved when I would come bearing down the road knight rider style and people would look "what the hell is that?", Mustangs and suped up civics would get no mercy from me.. My nephews and cousins that were little during early 2000s LOVED to ride in it with tops off. All i would hear is WOW wow so cool, this is nice while they put their hands up in the air... TTops = FUN FUN FUN
Reason #4: In the 1980's it was extremely common where I lived (Providence RI) to have a car side window smashed out to steal the T-tops. They apparently sold for a lot at the junkyards and were very easy to steal. Remember it happening outside my apartment window. The thief saw me looking at him but still smashed the window, stole the T-tops, and drove away before the 911 operator even answered.
My 1978 vette actually has factory locks so you can't easily boost them. I inherited the car when my father passed away in 2003 I think I've only had the t top off twice in all those years. Definitely fun to drive without them installed but honestly it's kind of a headache because you got to store them in the car if you go out more than a few hours.
The t-tops in my 1979 Camaro leaked every-time in car washes I owned from 1982-1985. My Friend had her Camaro detailed and the guy failed to lock the latch in place on the passenger side and it flew off. She turned around to go back and a pick up truck was pulled over in that area and the guy was about to get out to look for whatever it was that he saw fly airborne off her car. Said no joking it shot straight up 6-7 stories high then flew a half circle like a boomerang and then shot at the ground. They found it together all shattered. It was an insurance claim to get it replaced because of the cost to get just one replaced.
I owned a second gen MR2 for 26 years, and really liked having the t-tops. They were usually stored, but they were nice to have on those cold mornings on the way to a car meet. Toyota's storage solution - against the bulkhead behind the seats - was excellent. I don't know if mine leaked as I never drove the car in rain, but they did rattle a bit. OTOH, my pop-up headlights looked good when retracted, but seeing them sticking up in my field of vision at night always reminded me of why they went away. BTW, the designers of the original Miata didn't want to use pop-ups, but the smaller headlights they wanted (more like the NB) weren't available yet. Having also owned an NB since 2003, I'm real glad I didn't have a pair of 7" sealed beams sticking up at night. YMMV. Sorry.
Likewise, those 7" sealed beams are not particularly good lights, especially the original non-halogen ones. I've seen halogen ones that are more comparable - better perhaps - than most halogen headlights of the 2000s though. And the good thing is that - mostly thanks to Jeeps still using something similar - there are tons of nearly plug-and-play aftermarket options that are better than most other cars' stock headlights - I have such LEDs in my classic Beetle, but that's a more recent option.
My 02 Trans Am has T-Tops and honestly I like them a lot more then I thought I would. I take them out as often as I can. They have a spot in the trunk to out them so I always have them with me
I miss the days of taking out the t-tops of my '87 MR2 on a very hot summer day in Kentucky and nearly getting 3rd degree burns on my fingertips from the glass. Or when we would have a massive hail storm and almost going deaf from all the ice hitting the glass. Really I do.
Got caught in a bad hail storm one spring on the Gene Snyder in Louisville in my 88 IROC Z. I remember looking thru the T-tops overhead and knew it was a matter of time before that hail was going to come crashing in on me. It still seems amazing to me how they withstood that onslaught without breaking.
Man how could you not have a picture of the Camaro, that car along with the Trans Am is what people associate with t-tops, I mean they had them from the late 70's until both models were discontinued until 2002. Speaking as somebody who owned a 1999 Camaro Z28 t-top and a 1998 Camaro Z28 convertible, my vote goes convertible. Granted if you drive the car every day, t-top is the way to go, way more room in the hatch, doesn't leak(mine never did), quiet on a highway cruise. But if its garage kept and only taken out on nice days, convertible all the way, there is less wind buffeting than t-tops, you have a lot more open feel. At least on that 4th gen Camaro both felt pretty solid and didn't rattle. Never taking apart the interior is the secret to no rattles though lol.
I bought a brand new black Formula Firebird in September 2001. It had t-tops and loved it!! I drove it for 16 years and put 229,000 miles on it. Super fast and fun car!!
The BRAT T-Tops were called "Fun Roofs" IIRC and they could be held partially open like a sunroof in vent setting, though sideways like gullwings. Kind of neat, but it required the roof structure to remain on the open side, though that was probably a good thing with how flexible those chassis were. I wonder if the unusual vent setting might have been the result of someone trying to make a positive out of the need to retain the outer roof to prevent losing too much structural strength (and maybe to help prevent leakage). I think with modern chassis strength, T-Tops could come back, but people have lost their sense of fun and would complain about having to remove the panels by hand. I actually preferred the old manual sunroofs where the panel had to be removed to have it fully open to the power roofs of today as it leant a sense of occasion to the simple act of having an open sunroof. I usually tossed the glass in the rear seat footwell. If more people were in the car, it just stayed in the roof, but I wouldn't have wanted it out with passengers as it would make it too noisy to talk to everyone, anyway. Funny that you show a BRZ as I was thinking how the double bubble roof of my GR86 could have used a T-top with the bubble sections being removable body-color panels with the center section remaining fixed. Of course, it would be me and maybe 5 other people who would actually want them like that....
The safety sticker inside the BRAT called it the “Fun-Roof,” but the owner’s manual also called it the “Subaru HALO-TWIN” (all caps in every instance) roof.
I had an 82 Z-28 with T-Tops...in Texas. While they didn't leak (very much), they BAKED the inside of the car on hot summer days. I always had issues with the a/c on that car...as in, if I ran it too much on those hot summer days, my car would overheat. SO, I just left the T-Tops off most of the time because it was cooler with them off than on. Lots of good memories and fun times in that car tho! Ahh...the 80s were such a special time! LOL
I know they aren't cool anymore for most people, but this is one of my favorite car designs of all time. My best friends dad growing up had a 69 Vette tuned for thebtrack and to this day it's my favorite car even if it wasn't all stock I saw this thing blow the doors off Vipers and Lambos as a kid and to do that with a T-Top is just extra style points 😂
This video made me shed a tear for my Iroc of my younger days... man I miss that car... and the leaky T-Tops. Went well with Van Halen, Busch Light, cutoffs, and my mullet
Topic suggestion: The Air Cooled Motor! One of the nice things (among others) from the Corvair models were their rear located air cooled motors. I'd like to see you do a feature on them.
I have no experience with T-Tops (though my 88' Supra does have a removable targa top, and it can drip a tiny bit depending.) But one while I was checking out my local mechanic's yard, he has an 80's MR2 that was there for about a month or two and the passenger seat was puddled with water from the glass T-tops. They seem kind of like a sealing night mare to me. Removable hard roofs I think are the best of both worlds (though they do flex a lot.)
It's kind of strange how car makers have no problem sealing doors and trunks but targa-tops are a problem. I guess it's because the tops don't have the heavy duty hinges and latches that doors and trunks have.
In the early 90s I had a 280ZX and then a 300zx and neither ever dripped a drop of water. You had to keep the door and t-top seals from drying out or replace the entire set for about $200.00 back then. (Loved my tops, was always jealous of the Supra and the Targa top.
@@darylkik6204 Lol yeah the targa top is cool, but more so when it was new. Now it's something you have really work with the seals on. But you know what else? At least in mine the drivers side bolt likes to walk itself out (from all the major flexing) and if you don't tighten it in a long enough time , you'll have wind noise and a gap. Most the targa top kinda sucks because it has so much flex and noises to the chassis. The doors are reenforced to deal with the top being I've (I've never tried it yet, I've heard it's a little scary with the flex. So yeah, it's better than T-tops and sunroofs, but still has some issues!
Got a '93 MR2 with t-tops and love them. Yes, they leak a little. Yes, it's sometimes a pain when you get home to have to put them back on. But on a nice day, it's great to have open sky and fresh air.
I feel like factory sun roof technology rendered t-tops unnecessary. When t-tops were a thing, a sunroof was pretty rare, typically solid metal, and in most cases an aftermarket addition. As factory sunroofs became a more common option t-tops fell to the wayside.
I think a cool video would be the history of turbos how they came on strong as a performance option, then went away in favor of displacement and are now back to make cars more economical. #torquesteer
Theory 1: Because car manufactures are forced to give warranty's a t-top that will always end up leaking is seen as a liability. Convertibles dont fall into this since they always receive less coverage since the owners at some point will forget to "pop the top" and the inside floors will get soaked. T-tops (I love them) are notorious for ruining rocker panels.
Jeeps technically still make removable T tops (without the center T). With their removable hard tops the forward section of a 4 door wrangler is two removable sections (very similar to a T top), and for the renegades their removable roof is all based on T the tops concept (though rotated 90 degrees), I know those aren't the exact same as a T top in the traditional sense but if you look at what they are doing its the same concept. And on the concept of cars feeling new, the old saying goes, there are no new ideas, just old ideas recycled into a new product. With the new ford bronco and hummer I think we may soon see some of these older concepts like the T top actually coming back just due to consumer nostalgia.
Of course the Wrangler itself is one of those retro designs you talk about. It's lineage can be traced back pretty much to the WWII Military Willies Jeeps, it was fully re-designed several times (and it's probably at least twice as big now) but the aesthetic was kept the same all that time. It's probably stayed true to its origins more than most other long-running names like any of the muscle/pony cars that have only vaguely stayed the same in concept (unless you count the Mustang Mach E, in which case it didn't stay the same at all in any regard).
Also, that new Hyundai concept EV looks like it traveled from the 80s with its boxy design and stainless steel finish with modern looking tech. Would be sick to see those on the road
T Tops fell out of favor and have been replaced with panoramic sunroofs. More glass area for todays sedans and SUV’s. So much easier to hit a button than manually removing and storing 2 separate panes of glass.
I think a lot of why T-tops died is similar to why targa tops died, namely convenience. With a convertible top, you stow it in the rear deck area. With a t-top, the user has to leave the car, remove the tops, and stow them away. The fact that it is less convienient probably means consumers are less likely to purchase the option, and that influences manufacturers to cut it from their models, reducing manufacturing complexity. Plus, at least for car guys, the hard top is the desired option, so why produce t-tops?
Had a 1981 Datsun 280zx Turbo. The most reliable part of the car was the T top. Never leaked, but maybe that was because the car itself was so unreliable it rarely left the garage.
Oh I miss my 1979 280ZX. Very first car I ever bought. Off of a used car lot for $900 bucks. Rusty floors. Actually had a hole under my left foot. The fuel injectors leaked. Glad it never caught fire. But I still miss that car.
I was fortunate enough to end up with a 79 Z28 Camaro right after high school, taking it up the street with no tags, no exhaust past the headers, and the t tops down was a lot of fun 😂
Just like pop up headlights I believe T tops are still cool. Hope for a comeback of both. Think about no more yellow plastic covering your lights and way less hair to get messed up by the wind. The final nail for t tops was three things. One you said,leaks. Two was rattles, noisiest part on the car. Lastly was weakness. Like the mustang in 87 and earlier. More horse power more issues. Cars were breaking. Especially if a lot of performance after market exists. But placed in the right cars these things could still be a hit. What's old is new and it's been long enough that many noobs to cars have never seen them and will be amazed
T-tops are also explicitly prohibited in a lot of sport racing classes. They're great for cruising, especially before fuel economy standards increased and AC became ubiquitous. But they are a liability for anybody purchasing a car (especially used) for a track car, even part time.
@@Lawrence330 very true, cars with them are still weaker and they can pop off under loads. More helmet room tho. lol The only other thing is I have never seen a t top car that didn't have A/C. well optioned cars are the ones that had them.
Although I approve of your Smokey and the Bandit as the "what did you think of as a T-top" For me my first thought was: -A red light on the front moving back and forth. -A talking car -A car that jumps over any object at the push of a button.
When I went to buy my first car around 1990 I went to a dealer and was looking at a 1977 or 78 Firebird Formula with T-tops and asked the used car salesman it leaked or not, he said "I can guarantee you that it does leak, all T-tops start to leak when they are a few years old." I passed on that and got a fourth generation 1982 Trans-Am instead. I kind of regretted that decision but I thought the girls would like the newer T/A better and ended up having a sun roof installed on it.
Keep up the good work homie your slaying it... ur channel has content that's up there with channels that use multiple creator's to crank out what you seem to be doing rolling solo... keep killing it you've deff found ur lane...
I really miss T-Tops. They were like having a convertible and double sunroofs simultaneously, without the ugly cloth roof. I had a 1989 IROC-Z Camaro with T-Tops back in the day. It was a fun car, and the T-Tops made it even more fun. Luckily, the T-Tops never leaked in the rain, and I always hand-washed the car (no leaks then either), so I never tested the T-Tops at the car wash. The T-Tops came with two padded and fur-lined faux leather zippered storage bags that fit down inside the cubby hole (vertically) under the rear hatch back. That cubby hole eventually became the twin 10-inch subwoofer box, so there went the T-Top storage....lol. Although, the T-Tops could still be laid flat under the hatchback, as long as you had nothing else to tranport in the car at the same time. The T-Tops were about $500 a piece (back in 1989), so you didn't want to damage them. I had a friend with a Trans Am that found this out the hard way, when he dropped one of his T-Tops and the glass cracked. Who knows, maybe T-Tops will make a comeback someday, but for now I'll have to stick with my sunroof. 👍👍
In 1995 I bought a brand new Z28 with T-tops. And I still drive it every summer. Of the 20 cars I've owned. This is still my favorite car to drive. Rocket on wheels.
My 95 trans am has both t tops and pop up headlights. Even has a little storage spot for the t tops in the trunk. My favorite features on the vehicle by far
When I was a young man I had that exact 1977 Trans Am. Those T-tops were awesome and friggin HEAVY. I remember wrestling them on and off many times. It's part of the charm of the vehicle as well as a period feature for sure.
I had three 1979 Pontiac Trans Am and currently one 1997 Firebird. All with T-Tops. That is a make or break option for me! I'm sitting in park under shade tree with one T-Top off as I write this.
I still own a 1981 Z 28 with t-tops, that's black with red stripes and interior. The t-tops are great. It's not my daily driver, but it's good to pop them off every once in a while when it's nice out, and cruise around. A little less often right now with the price of gas.
My 1st car back in 2005, was a gray 1991 Nissan 100 nx. Which had a T top. I LOVED that car. It was so unique. Got stolen in Sweden while on a road trip.
My 2002 camaro is a base one that came with ttops. How lucky i am because I love them. I have a compartment for them both which is extremely convenient. Easy to take off and put on. Leaks are very scarce. No major issues. Much safer than convertible but than a boring tiny sunroof. I have had this camaro for 15 years in 3 different states. I'm very fortunate and happy as some haters think they are strange looking 🤔. But they are not driving these cars. If you don't like don't look. Cover your baptist virgin eyes 😅😅
I will never forget the time I lost a driver's side t-top at 75 on the freeway. I saw it detonate behind me in front of a semi. The semi almost jackknifed, but thankfully he was able to correct and continue driving. I did not wait around to make explanations.
CARS WERE BETTER IN THE 80’s STICKER NOW AVAILABLE!
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Regular street cars were better, but supercars are kinda amazing right now, too.
You are wrong.... 2015 Jeep Renegade --- T-tops (well H Tops)
cars of the 80s were literally the 2nd generation of terrible design and functionality, and they were the 1st generation of cars that didnt last 10yrs. geeze talk to your elders before making a video. we know we were there and lived through it.
I seriously can’t believe KITT wasn’t brought up in this!
Cars of the 1980s or turds huge nasty turds holy smokes I owned a few and worked at a car dealership holy s***
I feel like the 3 reasons given are completely valid, but there's a 4th big one. Sunroof's caught on and provided nearly the same functionality as T tops with nearly none of the drawbacks. You have slightly less space open to the outside, but get a much stronger chassis. On the down side, older Sun roofs do like to leak from time to time.
25 years my Accord sunroof never leaked but I hear It happens
A big reason why i like T-Tops is getting in and out of a sports car is waaay easier... due to the non existent roof line. Sun roof is nothing like a T-Top or targa
@@jaron312 you have drain lines going from the rain gutter in the sunroof thru the A-pilar down to the front wheel area - if that gets clogged you gonna have issues
@@1DEADBEEF1 I think that’s valid, but niche. I think most people buy a car they can get in and out of easily. While it is not the same, I think most people as far as making a choice between the two when buying a car prefer the hassle free sunroof operation over having to get out and store t-tops for daily use if they want an opening in the top of the car at all… and if it is an important factor for them, prefer a full convertible over a small opening… with that added bonus that again, convertibles are mostly a push button operation.
@@johngaltline9933 old convertibles from that era were noisy rag tops and deadly during a rollover... obviously we are Talking sports cars so People do buy them for sport driving not for ease of access
I always felt the Sun / moon roof in the consumer’s eyes were more practical.
No storage problem, way easier to use. If you were out and it started to rain unexpectedly no need to pull over and retrieve tops and put on in the rain. All you have to do with Sun/ moon roof is push a button. Plus there was the issue of having the t tops stolen.
Damn I commendable this I do like sun roofs on the Porsche
This guy at work has a 4th gen Camaro with a broken T-top on one side. For the love of a new glass he's got it with a heavy duty plastic sheet and an ungodly amount of tape holding it down
@@ScubaSteveM45 I can't even imagine what a glass shop would charge to replace the glass in a t-top. Perhaps point him to eBay...surely he can pick up a full set from a wrecking yard for a few hundred dollars. LOL!
@@laughingalltheway8399 i think that's just the problem. Nobody has one he's looked across the immediate tristate area. Crafting a new piece to fit from a glazier would probably cost as much as current Blue Book for the car as well
@@ScubaSteveM45 Probably so. My uncle is still daily drives an early Fox Body with t-tops and every few years one gets busted and he goes on the hunt for new ones. I've seen him buy a set from a wrecking yard just because he saw them while he was there for something else even when he didn't need them. haha!
One old car feature you might consider making a video on is the digital dashboard. What makes it so interesting is that it was never necessary aside form vanity and 'futurism' but took off in 80s sports cars, died out in the 90s, and here we are over 30 years later and they're starting to make their way into modern cars again, albeit in a different form. The Buick Reatta instantly comes to mind with its digital dash and touch screen... in 1988!
The 1981 Yamaha Virago 920 has an integrated digital dash/instrument cluster. The tachometer was circular shaped and the speed was displayed as 55mph, for example. Had odometer, kph conversion, fuel indicator, etc. Was pretty slick back in the day. Digital was everywhere.
The analog styles of the past are better than today’s digital ones.
My dad had an '84 Lincoln that had a digital dash. It was cool then, but its alarm-clock look is far cooler looking back from 2022. haha!
I had a 1992 Cougar with digital dash. Towards the end of its life it started going wonky. Flashed and gauges went berserk. I had to pull over, turn the engine and ignition off and then restart. Like rebooting a computer.
@@laughingalltheway8399 that would be advantageous today in the face of today's glass cockpit dashboards of menus and adjustable screens that are complex and too intricate to read quickly. What if we had modern cars with digital dashes that just had simple marks and numbers so you could quickly see anything you needed in a split second 🤔
I've owned both, and the other issue with t-tops is they didn't quite have the open air feel convertibles had, it's hard to explain unless you drive in both. T-tops also had a lot more turbulence to deal with as the air would get "trapped" in the back of the vehicle giving you a bit less performance and gas mileage, and more air would blow back on the driver compared to a convertible. You also, had them rattle around as they got older (this simply may have been my experience with a GM vehicle). Lastly, and this is just an asthetic/opinion thing, the convertible simply looked better with the top down.
yeah that's right, and also on the Corvette they actually had an optional removable rear window for that reason on the 73 model to help with the turbulence
My 2000 Camaro has T-Tops, and they are plain awesome! They lock safely into place in the hatch, and it doesn't take too long to take them off/put them off, and yes, they surprisingly DON'T leak!
Cool! My '99 had them. Certainly not 30 years either..😄
Greetings fellow 2000 Camaro owner. Mine HAD to have T-tops and thankfully that was the more common option. I absolutely love the car and the tops. Mine leak lol
@@bluetyphoon2100 change out those seals! and keep them clean
My 95 Firebird is the same deal. I take care of those seals religiously tho 😅
My trans am t tops leak 🥲
Love the T Tops on my 1992 Trans Am! No leaks! Perfect.
I have a 1993 4.3L V6 with 270000. Exceptions to the rule.
I grew up in the 80’s. I absolutely loved T-tops, I still do. I wish they’d make a comeback.
Hell naw, T-Tops are a pain and they freaking leak.
@@txmade4371 never had any problems with mine. Of course, I also checked them out each spring. Still don't have any problems with 'em as a result. Like anything, if you don't take care of it properly, it won't last as long. T-Tops are still my favorite.
@@txmade4371 my '77 Bandit T/A with NON leaking t-tops would like to say NOPE, not always.
@@txmade4371 I’ve had several Camaros with them and none of them ever leaked.
@@txmade4371 the older convertibles leaked way worse.
I love how the Suzuki Cappuccino is being used as an example here as the only production car capable of having all of these roof types.
Love T-Tops and wish they would come back! Had a couple of Trans Ams and a MR2 Turbo with T-Tops and really enjoyed them. The 78 Trans Am had a bit of a rattle but I discovered if you removed the decorative trim piece of the T-Top handle area the brackets that held the retractable pins could be adjusted. Slightly adjusting the angle that the pins came out took the slack out and tightened them up. The cars were pretty tight though spirited driving over a railroad track would give you a little cowl shake. Surprisingly one of the most rigid open-air cars I owned was a Fiat X19. It had a targa top but seemed as rigid as a coupe. No shakes, leaks or rattles, it's like it was made out of granite. I miss those cars and wish I would have kept a few of them.
My 1986 Mustang GT had T-tops. Removing them required that they be stored in dedicated vinyl sleeves in the hatchback area thus reducing what limited storage was available on a trip. Long term maintenance required treating the rubber gaskets periodically to keep them from drying out and causing the dreaded leaking roof. Still, was a cool feature when driving down the beach in Daytona!
That was a pretty rare Mustang option.
I feel you man. I had an 85 Mustang GT T-top. I had to make cardboard inserts because the Texas sun just beat through them. And, it leaked almost from the day i bought it., But, it did look kool!
I had an 85 Mustang GT with T-Tops in Los Angeles, California. I loved them and, for me, putting them in the vinyl bags was a minor inconvenience. Mine only leaked in heavy rain. Otherwise, I had some rattles on rough roads.
With today’s technology. All those issues have been resolved. For instance, two sunroofs side by side, a bit smaller of course. Auto retractable. They can be carbon fiber.
Better stock up on gaskets.
I had an '88 300ZX with T tops and a 5 speed manual which I kept all thru the 90s. Whipping thru the mountain curves in Colorado with the tops out was a lot of fun. Finding a place to pull over and put the tops back in because a thunderstorm moved in, not so much. I had to store my in bags in the back so there wasn't room for anything else with the tops out. Happier with the sunroof.
Tops off drive from Denver to Central City would be tops
I had an old 1987 Nissan Pulsar in high school. Not only did it sport t-tops, it also had a removable rear hatch. I rarely took the hatch off because it was a pain and it could never be left off for long because of security and weather concerns. But I tell you what, it was a fun car to drive as a semi-convertible. I still wish I had that car today!
My exwife pulsar did that. I took the hatch off a few times. I love ttops
I agree with your assessment as to why they no longer are made. Maybe you can do a video essay on older cars that had bright light switches on the floor boards? I haven't seen those in years. Or, headlight wipers/washers, you don't see those much either on new cars.
I remember in '93 when I was in the Air Force I got a call out to fix something in the B-52 bombers cockpit that was waiting to takeoff, it was one of those stupid switches on the floor! I guess its used for the landing lights? I was so surprised to see it but it makes sense since they were built in the '50s....
I think headlight washers are still common. European-spec cars require headlights over a certain brightness (HID and LED, basically) to have auto-leveling and washing mechanisms. I think the floor-mounted light switch was phased out because putting them on the turn signal stick was slightly cheaper and more convenient. You can't flash to pass with a floor button that's either low or high. I have a car with a floor-mounted switch and it's annoying to flash the lights or even turn the high beams off sometimes because it's a manual.
@@bwofficial1776 My '67 Volvo also has the hi/lo switch on the floor, agree it's a pain with a manual trans! You can flash the hi-beams by pulling the turn signal stalk, so it's a little bit of both!
Headlight wipers phased out when glass was substituted for plastic - you can’t rub plastic with wipers without damaging it
The washers are mandatory on all Xenon headlights where I live
Maybe other types like matrix LED
not sure
You mean floor mounted headlight dimmers? In practice I never seen anything wrong with them. They made for a less cluttered, complicated, and busy looking steering column.
I had a 95 Z-28 Camaro with T-tops. It was so much fun to drive that thing on one hand. And on the other hand, I constantly had a stack of towels in the car because the passenger side T-top leaked EVERY TIME it rained. The first time I drove it through one of those gas station car washes, my brother was in the passenger seat. When the spray hit that side of the car it shot inside like someone turned the hose on us! It wasn't just "leaking," it was SPRAYING in on both of us! Luckily I had those towels in the backseat already. We each grabbed one and used it as a shield! LOL Man, I miss that car! haha
I had an 88 IROC - yup, leaked too. That and the A pillar started rusting from the inside out.
I had a 91 Camaro. My t tops didn't leak. Well if you used a power washer at the right angel they dripped but in the rain they were fine. I got rid of the car because the girl I was going out with didn't like it. That was a stupid mistake. Also had a fiero with t tops. Rare option for that car. Those leaked. Also if you took them off they had to stay at home. No place to put them. The good old days.
@Shawn 🏴☠️ Stafford yeah. We all make mistakes. Keep the gta. Love those cars.
@@TomTom-qm4mq LOL my gf in high school had to deal with at least 6-7 shitboxes (maybe even more) over the course of 4 years of dating. She didn't like the cars, but liked that we could go places at any time with them, so there weren't many complaints. Even gve her a few lessons on manual, resulting in a bent rim and an alignment ;)
And because it was a POS, I didn't even care too much.
I had a few 3rd and 4th gen camaros with T-tops and my complaint is that it felt like I was pulling a parachute after like 40mph. The extra drag is noticeable especially on a v6 car.
I got a 73 corvette stingray, and the T tops are why I love it!! Semi convertible at my convenience!! Love it!!
T-top gang here.. my lil x90 has em and I do love em, I love nothing more than cruising with around topless. I'll give it you tho because they do leak and putting them in their bags to keep them protected is a bit of a pain but still... Love em
Electric Hummer brought T-Tops back baby.
Hell yeah 🇺🇸 🦅
Yessir it did!
If you have $100k + to spend on a vehicle .
Yes it did!
Jeep Gladiator 2021 have t-tops but i prefer my Z28 1982 with them
T tops were so cool, as a teenager in the 1980’s, my friend and I loved taking his dads “T” top 280Zx out for a cruse , oh and getting a bit sun burnt too :). Thanks for the trip down memory lane - cheers from Brisbane Australia
That is the best t-top car :)
I bought my wife's first car with T-tops and they leaked, someone tried to steal them twice, and they took up the entire trunk when they were removed. It became such a pain that she never removed them and they simply leaked in the rain. We now have several cars with a sun roof which don't leak, offer much better sun protection when closed and allow us to open them up while driving which we do once or twice a year. Great video.
My Toyota MR2 had a removable sun roof. You could pop it up or optimally remove it and there was a dedicated storage compartment in the front trunk. This was 1986 so yeah. Same kind of thing really. Loved that feature
2 out of my 4 firebirds had them. Loved every minute of them off. My 84 and 85 had them. My 79 and 87 didn't and they also had no A/C. I will own a 88 or 89 formula with t tops someday.
I feel ya, Ken. I had an 85, 86, and 88 Camaro at different times, as well as a 95 Firebird V6.
The t-tops in my 86 Z28 always leaked, but on a nice day, ooh, they're neat to have.
@@Lawrence330 lol my 84 leaked but my 85 never did. But my 87 was the only of the 3rd gen that the hatch glass motor still worked.
Of the 4 Camaros I've owned over the yrs (79 6cyl, 82 Z28 Crossfire, 84 Z28, 88 5.7 TPI IROC Z) only the 88 had T-tops. When I 1st got it the question was always "are we taking the T-tops out?" whenever someone else was going somewhere with me (summer months). They had the effect of making each trip an event of sorts. Sold the car in 06 after falling for the whole "You can't have that car with a baby on the way, it's time to grow up" advice. Today? The baby has turned into a 6'1" 300lb destroyer of groceries, without T-tops. And I'd gladly trade him for my IROC back.
@@PeekabooGram I know the feeling. I sold my 87 supra turbo I rebuilt from scratch for the baby. A week after I sold it she miscarried.
I drove a ‘97 Camaro RS with the t-tops. Absolutely loved that car and in my experience the fit and finish was tight, no leaking even during outright monsoons.
I think this finally answers the question that I had for over 40 years as to why, on the bill of sale for a Trans Am, Pontiac would list the TTop roof as an “H” roof. GM didn’t own the patent to call them TTops.
4:26 Bill Blass edition Lincoln Continental - that thing was a 2 door land yacht! My grandmother had one. She was a tiny old lady with this crazy fear of a car crashing down on her from an overpass. She figured the larger the car she drove, the better the odds that a falling car would impact her hood or trunk, thus improving her odds of survival. For being as big as it was, the thing only had 2 doors, 2 huge, heavy doors! Not a T-top, not even a convertible, but it was cool to see one in the video. Brings back memories!
I absolutely love the targa top miata. they look great both with the roof up and down. and having that roll hoop just makes it feel so much more secure. porsche targa are also among the coolest cars where you can take off the roof for the same reason. looks great with the roof up, loogs great with it down.
They really aren't targas as the rear window goes away as well. And there is no structural safety added there. They still have the supports behind the headrests the same as the soft top. But I def agree about the looks. I have a 2020 polymetal gray RF. LOVE IT! 😀
@@jeffwertz2953 rear window stays in place with a targa with a roll hoop over the occupants of the vehicle
@@isaks3243 Correct, but NOT on the Miata. So that is why Miata is not technically a targa. 😏
There used to be (and maybe still is) a company that would convert the newer Camaros into t-tops. I think it was the same company that did the Trans Am conversions.
Another video essay idea: high-end sound systems. Back in the 80s you could spend as much as a small car and get a system with a couple modules put in your center console. Head unit, equalizer with sliders, tape deck, maybe even a CD player. Look at some of the Mercedes-Benz customs and you'll see. Today all of that can fit in a single-DIN head unit and sound just as good.
Back in the day you could upgrade a car stereo significantly for a few hundred. A good head unit, a couple of speakers and the sound was transformed. Many cars didn't even come with rear speakers.
Now. Virtually everything has at least adequate sound from the factory. A typical setup is a pair of 6.5" components up front and 6.5 coaxials in the rear doors and a reasonably powerful 4 channel head unit.
American Sunroof Company (ASC) did the original T-tops in a lot of GMs, including some year Monte Carlo and F-body.
I think they still do. If I'm not mistaken, they have a piece of equipment that's specifically designed to cut the t-tops in perfect.
@@Rapscallion2009 In 1981 I paid $500 for a cassette deck with 2 speakers for a 69 camaro, Not installed. I still have the deck. Have to get it out and see if it works...
except the "sound just as good" is subjective...smaller speakers can never sound as good as larger ones to me...regardless of quality or brand
Dude! I LOVE your creativity and sense of humor! Keep the videos coming
I am the original owner of a 1987 Buick Grand National 31,000 miles, with T-Roofs, Love the breeze in the Spring, No leaks or rattles !
Love the content man, you should do one on the old floor mounted foot dimmer switch. A lot of people probably haven't even heard of them. I have a 73 GMC pick up and an 81 Z28 that both have them. Old school tech for sure 👌
Yea my fathers 66 Triumph TR4A has that as well. Was always super convenient idk why it didn’t stick
How about floor-mounted windshield washer bulbs?
Idk where one would fit comfortably on a modern manual car.
@@ChristopherBurtraw The big problem is cost. My Model 3 uses Mercedes turn signals and left stalk, and the dimmer is built into that stalk, so the incremental cost of putting the dimmer in the stalk is functionally zero. To put in a floor dimmer, with, parts, wiring, carpet trimming, installation, etc., could add $100 to the price of a car today.
My Grandma’s Dodge Aspen had that.
My favorite was the late 80's Pulsar NX (with pop up headlights), oddball little car, could be a hatch with a t roof, a little wagon with a t roof or a full on sort-of convertible with it all removed. Would love to find one for sale that isn't rusted out or beat to heck.
The Pulsar with the wagon hatch rocked..... I loved that car!
I had forgotten about those.
I owned 2 '88 SE models with bigger engine and hydraulic clutches. Clutches had short life but the car was great.
@@artsmith103
I knew a guy with a black one. I was selling Nissans at the time. Never sold one, and we rarely even had one on the lot. Too bad. Everyone wanted a 240. LoL
I've owned my 88 IROC-Z for 15 years, and I'm one of those "can't believe they don't leak" guys. Funny your video appeared on my feed just now, as my daughter and I just got home from a sunny afternoon drive around downtown Tampa with the tops in the trunk.
Along with another commenter had an '86 Mustang with T Top. Loved it, never leaked and never had a storage problem since the car was seldom taken on a lengthy trip. The downside was chassis flex. Oh my did it flop around - that is until I added Ford accessory frame stiffeners along with strut tower to firewall braces, better shocks and way better tires. Took a bunch of car show trophys with it too since I kept the entire car spotless. My wife hated it with the 'sporty' very stiff ride so we ended up with a T-Bird in '94.
My first new car was a 1977 Olds Cutlass with T-tops. Loved that car and the T-tops even though they leaked. That was a small price to pay for the pleasure the T-tops gave me.
As a fellow car enthusiast, I love your documentaries brother. Great quality! Great information!!!
I had a 93 nissan NX2000. It came with T tops. Ooooh it was a such an experience to drive! I loved it. (Bought in 2002, sold it in May 2021) I missed that car the second the keys left my hand.. When I had my tops off there was nothing like it on the road (except for a 300Z) and I modified it too. Had a NEO vvl motor, Vodtland lowering springs, strut bar front and back.. I loved when I would come bearing down the road knight rider style and people would look "what the hell is that?", Mustangs and suped up civics would get no mercy from me.. My nephews and cousins that were little during early 2000s LOVED to ride in it with tops off. All i would hear is WOW wow so cool, this is nice while they put their hands up in the air... TTops = FUN FUN FUN
Reason #4: In the 1980's it was extremely common where I lived (Providence RI) to have a car side window smashed out to steal the T-tops. They apparently sold for a lot at the junkyards and were very easy to steal. Remember it happening outside my apartment window. The thief saw me looking at him but still smashed the window, stole the T-tops, and drove away before the 911 operator even answered.
My 1978 vette actually has factory locks so you can't easily boost them.
I inherited the car when my father passed away in 2003 I think I've only had the t top off twice in all those years. Definitely fun to drive without them installed but honestly it's kind of a headache because you got to store them in the car if you go out more than a few hours.
My 2001 camaro had locks? Not a rocket science solution.
The t-tops in my 1979 Camaro leaked every-time in car washes I owned from 1982-1985. My Friend had her Camaro detailed and the guy failed to lock the latch in place on the passenger side and it flew off. She turned around to go back and a pick up truck was pulled over in that area and the guy was about to get out to look for whatever it was that he saw fly airborne off her car. Said no joking it shot straight up 6-7 stories high then flew a half circle like a boomerang and then shot at the ground. They found it together all shattered. It was an insurance claim to get it replaced because of the cost to get just one replaced.
I owned a second gen MR2 for 26 years, and really liked having the t-tops. They were usually stored, but they were nice to have on those cold mornings on the way to a car meet. Toyota's storage solution - against the bulkhead behind the seats - was excellent. I don't know if mine leaked as I never drove the car in rain, but they did rattle a bit.
OTOH, my pop-up headlights looked good when retracted, but seeing them sticking up in my field of vision at night always reminded me of why they went away.
BTW, the designers of the original Miata didn't want to use pop-ups, but the smaller headlights they wanted (more like the NB) weren't available yet. Having also owned an NB since 2003, I'm real glad I didn't have a pair of 7" sealed beams sticking up at night. YMMV. Sorry.
Likewise, those 7" sealed beams are not particularly good lights, especially the original non-halogen ones. I've seen halogen ones that are more comparable - better perhaps - than most halogen headlights of the 2000s though. And the good thing is that - mostly thanks to Jeeps still using something similar - there are tons of nearly plug-and-play aftermarket options that are better than most other cars' stock headlights - I have such LEDs in my classic Beetle, but that's a more recent option.
I still rock my second gen mr2 2.4L Turbo, still in love with it!...
I once owned a 1986 IROC Z CAMARO with T- TOPS...Really liked it
My 02 Trans Am has T-Tops and honestly I like them a lot more then I thought I would. I take them out as often as I can. They have a spot in the trunk to out them so I always have them with me
I miss the days of taking out the t-tops of my '87 MR2 on a very hot summer day in Kentucky and nearly getting 3rd degree burns on my fingertips from the glass. Or when we would have a massive hail storm and almost going deaf from all the ice hitting the glass. Really I do.
Got caught in a bad hail storm one spring on the Gene Snyder in Louisville in my 88 IROC Z. I remember looking thru the T-tops overhead and knew it was a matter of time before that hail was going to come crashing in on me. It still seems amazing to me how they withstood that onslaught without breaking.
@@PeekabooGram Good times.
Man how could you not have a picture of the Camaro, that car along with the Trans Am is what people associate with t-tops, I mean they had them from the late 70's until both models were discontinued until 2002. Speaking as somebody who owned a 1999 Camaro Z28 t-top and a 1998 Camaro Z28 convertible, my vote goes convertible. Granted if you drive the car every day, t-top is the way to go, way more room in the hatch, doesn't leak(mine never did), quiet on a highway cruise. But if its garage kept and only taken out on nice days, convertible all the way, there is less wind buffeting than t-tops, you have a lot more open feel. At least on that 4th gen Camaro both felt pretty solid and didn't rattle. Never taking apart the interior is the secret to no rattles though lol.
@Shawn 🏴☠️ Stafford I guess so, but t-tops were a big deal in the 70's/80's/90's. Even Mustangs had t-tops in the 1980's.
I bought a brand new black Formula Firebird in September 2001. It had t-tops and loved it!! I drove it for 16 years and put 229,000 miles on it. Super fast and fun car!!
The BRAT T-Tops were called "Fun Roofs" IIRC and they could be held partially open like a sunroof in vent setting, though sideways like gullwings. Kind of neat, but it required the roof structure to remain on the open side, though that was probably a good thing with how flexible those chassis were. I wonder if the unusual vent setting might have been the result of someone trying to make a positive out of the need to retain the outer roof to prevent losing too much structural strength (and maybe to help prevent leakage).
I think with modern chassis strength, T-Tops could come back, but people have lost their sense of fun and would complain about having to remove the panels by hand. I actually preferred the old manual sunroofs where the panel had to be removed to have it fully open to the power roofs of today as it leant a sense of occasion to the simple act of having an open sunroof. I usually tossed the glass in the rear seat footwell. If more people were in the car, it just stayed in the roof, but I wouldn't have wanted it out with passengers as it would make it too noisy to talk to everyone, anyway. Funny that you show a BRZ as I was thinking how the double bubble roof of my GR86 could have used a T-top with the bubble sections being removable body-color panels with the center section remaining fixed. Of course, it would be me and maybe 5 other people who would actually want them like that....
The safety sticker inside the BRAT called it the “Fun-Roof,” but the owner’s manual also called it the “Subaru HALO-TWIN” (all caps in every instance) roof.
Other items no longer found, power antennas, floor mounted switch for bright lights, vent windows to name a few.
In addition to affordable prices. 🤑
Early 90's...85' Firebird w/ T-tops, 20's years old, and music rocking...GOOD MEMORIES. Loved my T-tops.
I had an 82 Z-28 with T-Tops...in Texas. While they didn't leak (very much), they BAKED the inside of the car on hot summer days. I always had issues with the a/c on that car...as in, if I ran it too much on those hot summer days, my car would overheat. SO, I just left the T-Tops off most of the time because it was cooler with them off than on. Lots of good memories and fun times in that car tho! Ahh...the 80s were such a special time! LOL
I know they aren't cool anymore for most people, but this is one of my favorite car designs of all time. My best friends dad growing up had a 69 Vette tuned for thebtrack and to this day it's my favorite car even if it wasn't all stock I saw this thing blow the doors off Vipers and Lambos as a kid and to do that with a T-Top is just extra style points 😂
Do one on the digital dash? Also love the videos pretty good keep up the good work
I agree digital dash would make a cool vid
Whoa yes, digital dash is 100% one of those “why didn’t this catch on” (at least until full screen-based dashes 30 years later) automotive mysteries.
@@mortenjorck They weren’t exactly rare in the mid-late 80s.
“Close your eyes…” Smokey and the Bandit. You were spot on.
They are so neat!
You needed way more TransAm and or Camaro pictures in this video. I kept waiting for it. Finally one!
This video made me shed a tear for my Iroc of my younger days... man I miss that car... and the leaky T-Tops. Went well with Van Halen, Busch Light, cutoffs, and my mullet
Topic suggestion: The Air Cooled Motor! One of the nice things (among others) from the Corvair models were their rear located air cooled motors. I'd like to see you do a feature on them.
I have no experience with T-Tops (though my 88' Supra does have a removable targa top, and it can drip a tiny bit depending.) But one while I was checking out my local mechanic's yard, he has an 80's MR2 that was there for about a month or two and the passenger seat was puddled with water from the glass T-tops.
They seem kind of like a sealing night mare to me. Removable hard roofs I think are the best of both worlds (though they do flex a lot.)
It's kind of strange how car makers have no problem sealing doors and trunks but targa-tops are a problem. I guess it's because the tops don't have the heavy duty hinges and latches that doors and trunks have.
i had a 89 camaro, they leaked.... then a i had a 96 they didnt leak. it seems like they improved the designed and then phased them out
They leaked !
In the early 90s I had a 280ZX and then a 300zx and neither ever dripped a drop of water. You had to keep the door and t-top seals from drying out or replace the entire set for about $200.00 back then. (Loved my tops, was always jealous of the Supra and the Targa top.
@@darylkik6204 Lol yeah the targa top is cool, but more so when it was new. Now it's something you have really work with the seals on. But you know what else? At least in mine the drivers side bolt likes to walk itself out (from all the major flexing) and if you don't tighten it in a long enough time , you'll have wind noise and a gap.
Most the targa top kinda sucks because it has so much flex and noises to the chassis. The doors are reenforced to deal with the top being I've (I've never tried it yet, I've heard it's a little scary with the flex. So yeah, it's better than T-tops and sunroofs, but still has some issues!
I had T-Tops in a brand new 1989 Chevrolet IROC-Z that I purchased. I rarely removed them, but it was cool when you did!!
Got a '93 MR2 with t-tops and love them. Yes, they leak a little. Yes, it's sometimes a pain when you get home to have to put them back on. But on a nice day, it's great to have open sky and fresh air.
I feel like factory sun roof technology rendered t-tops unnecessary. When t-tops were a thing, a sunroof was pretty rare, typically solid metal, and in most cases an aftermarket addition. As factory sunroofs became a more common option t-tops fell to the wayside.
Is there a vehicle with a T-top and automatic seat belts AND pop-up headlights with wipers? 🤔 🤔
Don’t think they ever doubled up and made pop up headlights with wipers. T-tops, auto seat belts and pop up lights? Sure, mid 80s Firebirds.
Had a 79 Cordoba with factory T-tops. Loved it and they never leaked. It even had carry bags for the tops to store in the trunk.
I don't even care about cars but your videos are so well made and interesting, I have to keep watching them.
The current Jeep Wrangler hardtop has a front roof removed with two panels, much like a t-top.
I think a cool video would be the history of turbos how they came on strong as a performance option, then went away in favor of displacement and are now back to make cars more economical. #torquesteer
I love my 4th gen Firebird for its T-tops. I don't use them as often but the sun coming through the glass is such a great way to drive.
Theory 1: Because car manufactures are forced to give warranty's a t-top that will always end up leaking is seen as a liability. Convertibles dont fall into this since they always receive less coverage since the owners at some point will forget to "pop the top" and the inside floors will get soaked. T-tops (I love them) are notorious for ruining rocker panels.
Jeeps technically still make removable T tops (without the center T). With their removable hard tops the forward section of a 4 door wrangler is two removable sections (very similar to a T top), and for the renegades their removable roof is all based on T the tops concept (though rotated 90 degrees), I know those aren't the exact same as a T top in the traditional sense but if you look at what they are doing its the same concept.
And on the concept of cars feeling new, the old saying goes, there are no new ideas, just old ideas recycled into a new product. With the new ford bronco and hummer I think we may soon see some of these older concepts like the T top actually coming back just due to consumer nostalgia.
Of course the Wrangler itself is one of those retro designs you talk about. It's lineage can be traced back pretty much to the WWII Military Willies Jeeps, it was fully re-designed several times (and it's probably at least twice as big now) but the aesthetic was kept the same all that time. It's probably stayed true to its origins more than most other long-running names like any of the muscle/pony cars that have only vaguely stayed the same in concept (unless you count the Mustang Mach E, in which case it didn't stay the same at all in any regard).
The Jeep Renegade still has the center brace, so technically still a t-top, but they call it something else.. Jeep branding.
Also, that new Hyundai concept EV looks like it traveled from the 80s with its boxy design and stainless steel finish with modern looking tech. Would be sick to see those on the road
T Tops fell out of favor and have been replaced with panoramic sunroofs. More glass area for todays sedans and SUV’s. So much easier to hit a button than manually removing and storing 2 separate panes of glass.
Panoramic only benefits the rear passengers
True I still like t tops but now I want a car with a panoramic sunroof.
My 1979 T-Top Monte Carlo was the Bomb. When I had that car I was the Mack Daddy. I still have dreams of having that car.
I had two different camaro with T-Tops. I loved them. Driving with the T-Tops off was a completely different feeling then with a sunroof. I miss them.
I think a lot of why T-tops died is similar to why targa tops died, namely convenience. With a convertible top, you stow it in the rear deck area. With a t-top, the user has to leave the car, remove the tops, and stow them away. The fact that it is less convienient probably means consumers are less likely to purchase the option, and that influences manufacturers to cut it from their models, reducing manufacturing complexity. Plus, at least for car guys, the hard top is the desired option, so why produce t-tops?
Targa tops aren't dead. The corvette has had a targa top for almost 40 years.
@@pdennis93 One car has a targa top. Thats effectively dead.
@@JakeyyFD Targa tops aren't really dead, Porsche still produce Targa models for the 911
@@automation7295 Two cars, plus the new Hummer makes three. Not dead but barely alive.
@@JakeyyFD porsche 911 Targa, mazda miata mx5 rf, ferrari Daytona sp3
Had a 1981 Datsun 280zx Turbo.
The most reliable part of the car was the T top. Never leaked, but maybe that was because the car itself was so unreliable it rarely left the garage.
Oh I miss my 1979 280ZX. Very first car I ever bought. Off of a used car lot for $900 bucks. Rusty floors. Actually had a hole under my left foot. The fuel injectors leaked. Glad it never caught fire. But I still miss that car.
I was fortunate enough to end up with a 79 Z28 Camaro right after high school, taking it up the street with no tags, no exhaust past the headers, and the t tops down was a lot of fun 😂
Well done for a young man who was not alive in those times, well done.
I love my 3, 300ZX's with T-Tops! Among of the best cars ever made!
Just like pop up headlights I believe T tops are still cool. Hope for a comeback of both. Think about no more yellow plastic covering your lights and way less hair to get messed up by the wind.
The final nail for t tops was three things. One you said,leaks. Two was rattles, noisiest part on the car. Lastly was weakness. Like the mustang in 87 and earlier. More horse power more issues. Cars were breaking. Especially if a lot of performance after market exists. But placed in the right cars these things could still be a hit. What's old is new and it's been long enough that many noobs to cars have never seen them and will be amazed
T-tops are also explicitly prohibited in a lot of sport racing classes.
They're great for cruising, especially before fuel economy standards increased and AC became ubiquitous. But they are a liability for anybody purchasing a car (especially used) for a track car, even part time.
@@Lawrence330 very true, cars with them are still weaker and they can pop off under loads. More helmet room tho. lol
The only other thing is I have never seen a t top car that didn't have A/C. well optioned cars are the ones that had them.
The Europeans made pop ups illegal.... "Pedestrian safety"
@@my1vice because when I get hit by a car I always worry about concealed lights making it really hurt. Lawmakers gotta luv um
@@my1vice Same as the US...no hood ornaments either.
I literally thought of Bandit when I thought T-Top. You nailed it.
Although I approve of your Smokey and the Bandit as the "what did you think of as a T-top"
For me my first thought was:
-A red light on the front moving back and forth.
-A talking car
-A car that jumps over any object at the push of a button.
I love this channel and his humor
My first car was a 91 Firebird, with both pop up headlights and t-tops!! Miss that car!
Growing up my dad had a 98 firebird with t-tops the nostalgia of being in a car with one is unreal 😅
That first prototype T top looks like something I wouldn’t mind driving. Seriously cool design.
The convenience of a modern sunroof cannot be beat, but there will never be anything more "80s cool" than a Fox body Mustang with t-tops.
8:04
The only one it’s a great feeling in .
Ty for the historical and write up of the T tops
When I went to buy my first car around 1990 I went to a dealer and was looking at a 1977 or 78 Firebird Formula with T-tops and asked the used car salesman it leaked or not, he said "I can guarantee you that it does leak, all T-tops start to leak when they are a few years old." I passed on that and got a fourth generation 1982 Trans-Am instead. I kind of regretted that decision but I thought the girls would like the newer T/A better and ended up having a sun roof installed on it.
Keep up the good work homie your slaying it... ur channel has content that's up there with channels that use multiple creator's to crank out what you seem to be doing rolling solo... keep killing it you've deff found ur lane...
Got t tops on my 84 brat. Very much needed ~ given the AC equipment is far antiquated and cannot be charged LOL no regrets
I currently own a 86 mustang gt with t-tops. Great car and fun to drive. T-tops are rad!!!
I really miss T-Tops. They were like having a convertible and double sunroofs simultaneously, without the ugly cloth roof. I had a 1989 IROC-Z Camaro with T-Tops back in the day. It was a fun car, and the T-Tops made it even more fun. Luckily, the T-Tops never leaked in the rain, and I always hand-washed the car (no leaks then either), so I never tested the T-Tops at the car wash. The T-Tops came with two padded and fur-lined faux leather zippered storage bags that fit down inside the cubby hole (vertically) under the rear hatch back. That cubby hole eventually became the twin 10-inch subwoofer box, so there went the T-Top storage....lol. Although, the T-Tops could still be laid flat under the hatchback, as long as you had nothing else to tranport in the car at the same time. The T-Tops were about $500 a piece (back in 1989), so you didn't want to damage them. I had a friend with a Trans Am that found this out the hard way, when he dropped one of his T-Tops and the glass cracked. Who knows, maybe T-Tops will make a comeback someday, but for now I'll have to stick with my sunroof. 👍👍
In 1995 I bought a brand new Z28 with T-tops. And I still drive it every summer. Of the 20 cars I've owned. This is still my favorite car to drive. Rocket on wheels.
My 95 trans am has both t tops and pop up headlights. Even has a little storage spot for the t tops in the trunk. My favorite features on the vehicle by far
I thought "T-top" was just short for Targa top, I never really thought about the difference. I learned something today.
When I was a young man I had that exact 1977 Trans Am. Those T-tops were awesome and friggin HEAVY. I remember wrestling them on and off many times. It's part of the charm of the vehicle as well as a period feature for sure.
Liked your channel, subscribed!
Remembers how cool T-tops where back then!
I had three 1979 Pontiac Trans Am and currently one 1997 Firebird. All with T-Tops. That is a make or break option for me! I'm sitting in park under shade tree with one T-Top off as I write this.
I still own a 1981 Z 28 with t-tops, that's black with red stripes and interior. The t-tops are great. It's not my daily driver, but it's good to pop them off every once in a while when it's nice out, and cruise around. A little less often right now with the price of gas.
My 1st car back in 2005, was a gray 1991 Nissan 100 nx. Which had a T top. I LOVED that car. It was so unique.
Got stolen in Sweden while on a road trip.
I literally pictured a firebird lmao. Spot on! Nice job👍😂
My 2002 camaro is a base one that came with ttops. How lucky i am because I love them. I have a compartment for them both which is extremely convenient. Easy to take off and put on. Leaks are very scarce. No major issues. Much safer than convertible but than a boring tiny sunroof. I have had this camaro for 15 years in 3 different states. I'm very fortunate and happy as some haters think they are strange looking 🤔. But they are not driving these cars. If you don't like don't look. Cover your baptist virgin eyes 😅😅
I will never forget the time I lost a driver's side t-top at 75 on the freeway. I saw it detonate behind me in front of a semi. The semi almost jackknifed, but thankfully he was able to correct and continue driving. I did not wait around to make explanations.