This clip is taken from Episode 2 of The Chopin Podcast. Check out the full 90-minute episode: Listen on Apple ➡podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nocturnes/id1765998900?i=1000672535990 Listen on Spotify ➡open.spotify.com/episode/3rEASI329auARdFiO7Pcxz?si=0a8ec393af154131 And make sure to follow the podcast, since there's 10 more episodes to come this fall covering all of Chopin's major compositional genres. I was recently invited to host the National Chopin Competition livestreams from Miami this January. I said yes, on one condition: that I partner with the Chopin Foundation of the United States to create an multipart series digging deep into Chopin's music and approaching it from different angles with Garrick Ohlsson and a host of other guests. I'm honored that they agreed to my proposal! We're still beginning of what will be an ongoing collaboration through the fall, in anticipation of the big Chopin year in 2025 - as the best young Chopin pianists seek entry into the International Chopin Competition in Warsaw, where they will compete for the ultimate prize in arguably the biggest classical music event in the world. Go ahead and subscribe to the US Chopin Foundation's UA-cam channel, where the livestreams will be aired in January: www.youtube.com/@chopinfoundationoftheunite8079 To learn more about the Foundation, and the US National Chopin Competition, check out their website: chopin.org For more on The Chopin Podcast, visit chopinpodcast.com
Ben, at 5:03, in the first set of lh triplets, he played the 3rd chord as a triad instead of the chord I am used to hearing (it repeats 2 bars later with the chord as we usually hear it). Why would he do this? Was he improvising? Or did he play a 'wrong' note? The embellishment in the rh is clearly purposeful. But that one chord sounded odd. To me 😅! I am not a musician and I don't know how to describe it with the correct terms. Hope you know what I mean! LOVE your podcast. I first heard you talking about Yunchan and have listened dozens of times since. I had no idea there was so much complexity to be discussed. I am enthralled.
Hey Ben, please start linking where we can buy the shirts that you wear. I already had to search for the Gould one and couldn’t find a reliable source! I think a storefront with these shirts would be great for the channel.
Instructions including what notes to play. You can't add whole phrases, or the composer would write "feel free to add whatever phrases you feel in the moment" or similar.
@@kewkabeYou're just wrong. They didn't have to write it, because it was common practice. Actually weird not to. The greats played each other's music in concert and toyed around with it. Every good performer did this. It would only be necessary to write "do not change any of these notes. Play exactly what is written." Historical context matters a lot when we talk about what the score means
@@aidanmays7825 As well as the present context. Sadly, room for improvisation slowly dissipated as a common practice for classical musicians. It's normal to be authentic now, not improvisational. I wish we could renormalize the former.
my mother was born in 1912. She was a very fine pianist. Chopin was her second favourite composer (after Beethoven). She played lots an lots of his works, including this Nocturne. She played with a particular type of feeling I don't hear nowadays. Maybe she inherited this tradition. Interestingly she last played it in a concert she and I gave in a church when she was 99. She died four months later. God bless her.
@@kunikpiano Yes I do. She had also broken her hip and I wheeled her down from the hospital in a chair, so with all that the technique is not up to scratch!!! But she remembered the whole thing and only had a couple of hesitations. It was quite an experience for everyone.
@@ciararespect4296 Dude ... ciara not so respect. We're talking about someone's 99 years old mother playing from the heart for no other reason than love of music. Not some guy bragging he ate the hottest pepper no milk.
When I was finishing listening to Koczalski's performance, I had a comment ready in my head that I wanted to write - including the statement that after the introductory story I expected bolder improvisations and modifications, and the phrase "with taste". As it happens, such a comment has already been written by someone before 🙂
Challenge accepted!!!... I'm a competitor at the Miami Chopin Competition and watching your video a few weeks ago was the final inspiration that made me program the Nocturne Op. 9 nº 2 with embellishments as part of my competition repertoire in the second round. This pianist even has my name!... or the other way around... Thank you for your work, Ben!
I agree with the comment below that competitions encourage conformity rather than overall beauty and taste. Koczalski's interpretation is wonderfully refreshing. I've read accounts of Chopin's own playing which testify that he never played a work the same way twice.
It is well known among competition-calibre pianists that competitions discourage originality. I go for the obvious explanation - originality will usually split any good jury because normally people have different opinions. So the competitors that win are the ones who ruffle the fewest feathers, which almost always means the ones who take the least risks. That's an unstated but omnipresent criterion imposed on all competitors, perverse but nonetheless very real.
@@LukeFaulkner It's printed in the newest Polish National Edition of the Nocturnes in a footnote, but not in the older version I used in this video. I will write it out here, if this makes any sense. This is specifically for the descending RH run in minor 3rds heard in this recording: 2-3. F-Ab 1-4. E-G 2-3. Eb-Gb 1-5. D-F 2-4. C#-E 2-3. C-Eb (slide) 1-4. B-D 2-3 Bb-Db 1-5 A-C 2-4. Ab-Cb 1-3. G-Bb 2-4. F#-A 2-3. F-Ab (slide) etc
To do well in a competition, you must have flawless technique and no less than middle of the road musicality. The art of piano playing - or music making in general - is to know how to play that which is not written. When you are always looking over your shoulder to see what other people think, you've lost your originality.
Music isn't the notes on a page. Music is the soul, the vibe, the emotions you can draw out of your instrument. Technical playing is impressive. Playing with such intense emotion that it makes you or others cry is transcending.
My professor said that it was normal for performers to delay the right hand by a split second to emphasise the difference of the melody and accompaniment. But it is not something we do, for decades now.
@@LeeCanPotato I think if they do it tastefully, then it is fine, and it has to be very slight for me to no be disturbed by it. If it is overexaggerated and the delay takes your attention away from the music, then I agree, it would be tough to listen to.
Sensational video! Wow, I've been studying these nocturnes for decades and never knew there were alternate versions. Videos like these are pure gold for music enthusiasts and students alike!
Koczakski's version is exquisite. I'm getting that Ekier edition. Happily, I could careless about any piano competitions, but to play as Chopin might have played....? Quick send it airmail.
@@musiclover4311oh, stop it! You dare to call yourself music lover and then use “HATE” to describe an intensely musical performance of this nocturne. You are a bore…nothing more. Extract the stick from within your rectum and learn to enjoy things outside your teeny bubble.
This is the best version of this piece I have ever heard. The embellishments are never flashy to the point of detracting from the mood and never undermine the flow of the piece. Thank you for bringing this up and I am a new subscriber.
Away from the purpose of this video, listening to this renowned nocturne once again made me realize just how much of a wonder Chopin makes out of simplicity…
My girlfriend and I bought a record featuring old recordings of different vocal and instrumental artists from the shellac era. This was feautred on it and we almost brushed it off thinking we’d heard it played thousands of times before. As soon as it came on we were on the floor laughing with happiness! It was like hearing it for the first time😂❤
This tangentially supports my contention that until recently many conservatory classically trained instrumentalist were taught to be a slave to the score. Up until the early 1950's you still had some of the older generation performers take liberties with the score and yet were revered for their performance (Maria Callas for sometimes extreme tempo fluctuations that, to her great credit, worked marvelously).
Callas wasn't an instrumentalist. Opera's performing tradition isn't as interpretation-oriented as it once was, but there's still much more of it there than in any other form of classical music.
@@JimC No slave to the score is better from some of the interpretations I hear. Words can have literal and figurative meanings. I mean the latter. of course I could be cruel and say that the way some classical musicians are trained it seems they are no more than automatons and only a step away from a digital recording of a piece of music (one can call it mastering the art of frozen music). Note too there are written accounts of Chopin completely playing his pieces with many differences from the score in the indications of tempi and touch. Also one must be wary of metronome markings added to scores from late Beethoven through the mid 1800's - especially Chopin. The metronome markings tended to be inaccurate as composers adapted slowly to the new fangled invention of the metronome. I am not saying composers desired obviously incorrect tempi but often it was informed by knowledge of the practices and currents of the time (in fact a knowledge of the dance forms/forms of music for royalty and some of the folk music can be more helpful in informing good tempi than Maezel's metronome which was actually a copy of the original inventor - Winkel). Oh and if you are going to be so careful with the use of certain words, then please listen to Grace Jones "Slave To The Rhythm" pop song and offer a better alternative.
Thank you for sharing this! In college, I had to perform a collection of his works for a piano class (which I also had to analyze in music theory), and I never came across this! New perspectives are very refreshing.
I would like to remind Ben that Eric Lu did a crazy thing in the Chopin competition. When he played the a min mazurka op 17 no 4 he pumped up the middle section in a way that is not written. He played it like it was a rock anthem or something.
I think you are referring to a "dolce" A major section with obsessive base and crescendo until climax... I see it like if Chopin inviting a group of happy peasants to the Parisian aristocratic salons. The base indeed needs to be "pumped" almost to a degree of annoyance. Almost like if a peasant band was approaching from a distance ending up under your windows... :). This section is like a lively Oberek, which then comes back to a subtle slow Kujawiak. Eric Lu interpretation is "spot on" to me, expressing Chopin's intentions to contrast in a somewhat "shocking" way. Well.... my few cents. I played it with a similar intention before reading this comment.
@@kriswiwatowski4697 fair enough. I am a musical peasant. Yet my favourite meal is pheasant. Do you find my comment unpleasant? No - but joking aside, I have nothing against Eric's interpretation. He played it excellently. Furthermore, he plays Schubert's d899 four impromptus on YT so he can't be all bad.
5:01 for the left hand its actually Ab major first, then Ab minor and resolves to Eb major which is interesting and somehow fits and sounds so good this little addition of happy to sad chord is my favorite thing so far
When I play the piece, I play Ab major for bar 17 and Ab minor for bar 18. The original is boring to me to repeat the same chord progression twice (Ab minor -> Eb major).
Yah, that Ab major jumped out at me - not at all in a good way - and I had to rewind the video to compare with the score to see if it was actually notated that way (it was not). Bravo in general, but not right there, hehe ...
@@DeeCeeHaich Its absolutely hilarious to scroll through the comments and seeing you have a tantrum in the replies of anybody who DARES disagree with the arbiter of true music, Whatismusic123. I hope 8th grade is treating you well
It's absurd how we have normalized playing romantic composers into something that would make them puke, all while claiming its to respect their score as some kind of sacred divinity.
MANY Composer's performances were very varied. It is well documented, for example, that Beethoven never played the same way twice, - ditto with Mozart and the Classical Composers. I'm not that good a piano player, but I never play the same way twice.
The same was said about Greek literature many years ago by a Greek lit professor. He went on to show how it should be done and it was unwatchable. Any art is a living thing and not some fossil for an archeologist to scrape the dust from.
To the same point, but a bit different... I studied piano seriously and recall our Friday get togethers where students would critique each other. One student play a Nocturne I believe (cannot reacll the exact opus) and in it there were notations to play triplets, then perhaps a quintuplet, then another triplet, a duplet then it resolves (this is just illustrative). The student plays the 3-5-3-2-1 with metronomic prescision. When it came my turn to comment I stated "In this bar it sounded as if you were playing this melodic flourish perfectly in time with a metronome". Here response - "Thank you". I just kept my mouth shut. It was not a compliment at all and I am certain my instructor knew exactly what I was pointing out. Notation is at times only an approximation. What might be a totally organic improvisation has to be conveyed by the constraints of notation. One year I won a piano competition and the Gm Ballade was one of the works I played. That year I received high marks for a mature interpretation. I was anything but metronomic. The next year I did another competition and played a better rendition - but equally expressive - and got skewered for my liberties. Can't please everybody all the time.
To pull this off today, it has to be done with conviction and has to sound sincere and not as if you listened to Koczalski 100 times and are doing your best impersonation.
@@benlawdy I think it works in Koczalski’s interpretation because he was a composer and, probably, a natural improviser. I suspect that most pianists from that era could improvise and compose a little. That’s why it sounds natural when Koczalski inserts these embellishments, because it is. Now, everything is very specialized. I’m guessing most conservatory students don’t regularly improvise or compose miniatures, but they’ll probably be able to play a note-perfect sub 3 minute and 30 second Feux Follet.
Minus the added embellishments, i used to sometimes play like that, but i find i bend time less dramatically these days. But i habe been told i have a strange ability to bend time and keep things hanging together in a very seemingly natural way. But maybe that is because i both write and improvise. Or maybe if you wish to believe in the 19th century nonsense of genetics it is the asiatic aspect in conflict with the the tuetonic. Beats me. I just know i detest people that think metronomes are to be scrupulously observed.
@@Daniel_Zalman There's no such thing as a "natural improviser". Improvisation is a learned skill, and it's precisely for that reason that no one does it much in classical music anymore; we stopped teaching it, so it stopped being learnt. If you want to improvise you're going to have to learn how, just like Chopin, Beethoven, Brahms and Liszt did. It's ENTIRELY doable. Feux Follet is more than likely the result of one of Liszt's improvisations that he eventually wrote down. Sure it's impressive to play, but I would argue improvising is an exponentially more important skill. I have never made any money playing Feux Follet (despite loving playing it), but I've played many paid concerts of improvised classical music, jazz, klezmer, Country, Musical Theatre, Musical Comedy, and more.
In any form this Nocturne is simply one of the best pieces of music ever written. It is entirely the reason I play piano right now avidly. Lately I have been gleefully going down the Schubert rabbit hole who's music has become for me as revered as Chopin's and actually find many of Schubert's pieces more suitable for listening over and over.
This might be my favorite piece of music of all time. What an incredible performance through my phone speaker while driving and it gave me chills. Genius
Word on the street is that Chopin himself was a master improviser. So what Koczalski played would be in line with Chopin's playing. Op. 9 #2 is not one of my favorite Chopin works (overplayed) but Koczalski's interpretation was beautiful. That passage in 3rds at meas. 17a was amazing. Very enjoyable video. Thanks for posting. Also, where can I get that T-shirt???
it reminds me of a story I heard Arthur Rubinstein say about Saint Saens when he would preform. He once preformed with Francis Plante (someone who personally heard Chopin play) and they would play together during concerts, talk to each other while playing and comment on each others playing during the performance. Or the leschetizky piano rolls, where he uses a technique called dislocation where the two hands don't play together. Leschetizky hands were essentially in different time zones
Plante is wonderful, tragically obscure, and I love Rubinstein's interview in which he mentions him. But I believe he must have been very young when he heard Chopin play, if that story is true- too young for it to make a difference.
amazing video. i think about this topic so frequently. ive been getting into jazz improvisation recently and i kinda think its because of this feeling of imprisonment ill sometimes get when playing classical. I've loved "pre-war" recordings from the first time i listened to one ❤
You can do your own variations on any classical piece. That's more than enough jazzing around with. Or even better, write your own piece(s). What prevents you? Ah, yes, lack of real talent. Then it's easier "to complain." But remember that Classical music is same as the literature and the art from times past: it's an EXACT FINGERPRINT of times, remarkable testimony of people's lives, and is to be respected in that regard. It's people's authentic experience, NOT yours meddling into it and then selling it as theirs. But if you demand to "improvise on it" during all occasions rather than composing your own, then why don't you also fix Mona Lisa's smile, stitch back Van Gogh's ear and add a fresh few lines in Shakespeare's Hamlet? You surely have talent for all that?
@@declandougan7243 You don't have enough of know-how to "improvise" in the style of Romanticism. You don't even know how to maintain that aesthetic and philosophical idea which Chopin manages to do throughout his compositions. But if you "really want it", then you will re-compose it - not improvise it - for the "style" you are doodling in today. Which is the same as drawing moustaches to Mona Lisa, piercing her nose and dressing her up as a Brooklyn hooker.
Thanks Ben: wonderful video on that wonderful playing. As well as revolutionising piano technique and composition, it is almost as it Chopin gave a pre taste of jazz via improv. (transmitted to us via his student’s student reaching us from the early recording era: what a joyful gift across the ages). But then Mozart was a spontaneous improviser, whose wife insisted he write it down for posterity. Here’s to classical improvisation. Maybe one of the requirements of the Chopin competitions in future can be one piece, perhaps in the second or third round, in which the competitors are *required* to improvise in the spirit of Chopin!!
This just shows how composer noted for a memorable reference who ever said they way song are composed is the exact way the composer performed them. Scriabin is another perfect example of this. Especially with his live recording that survived. Excellent video BROTHER!
I have always played Chopin like this, even repeating some sections or adding chromatic passing tones even on LH chords. or playing octaves over some bass notes, etc. I also repeat some sections I like a lot, like the B theme (on his 3 repetitions) of the 1st Ballade, or the B section on Op. 3 Polonaise, etc. I read that Chopin would do this, but I never listened someone playing like this besides jazzy contexts. I love to know I was actually being genuine. My musician friends "hate" free rubato, cadenzas, adding notes or the fact that I play with the tunning system of those times, but I don't care. It's called piano "solo". Rubato and wild improvisations are almost called for piano.
Please recognize the fact that the Paderewski includes the Mikuli (and Oxford ed.) ornaments in the addendum of the edition I have owned for decades, so it's not "new" that the ornaments have been published.
@@ddgyt50 good to know! I also wanted to drive the point home that the whole nocturne is re-engraved with variants in the edition currently recommended by the competition, so maybe a pianist will not be afraid to try them out on stage - and maybe even take other liberties. But I guess the Paderewski was the previous national edition, right? So it’s been “authorized” for a while. Maybe there are pianists who’ve tried them in competitions in decades past and just don’t know about them.
What is art if not free expression? I'm enamoured by Koczalski's interpretation, and glad to have found this video. I know so many musicians that change up their compositions through time and depending on how they feel that day when playing. The thought we cannot build upon the greats, and mix ours with their work, is a sad one in my eyes
You endorsing Mark Ainley feels so good. Both on a high level when it comes to evangelising classical piano on UA-cam. Who's next, The Music Professor? :)
I think its important to remember that Chopin would often improvise at soirée's and then later write down what was played. He was always working on stuff write up to the point of sending it to the publisher, some even got different versions of the same piece.
@@alextgordon haha well it’s funny because we classical pianists have to deal with our old dead heroes, most of whom were improv wizards but lived before the recording era. So this is the closest to transcribing a Chopin solo as it gets for us!
On the topic of daring to play like in the XIX century, today Libetta released an entire recording of Chopin’s music where he plays as if he were a pupil of Mikuli. He plays short improvisations before most pieces, makes great use of rubato, and he adds notes. He plays also the nocturnes op 9 # 2, but a slightly different version of the Mikuli’s edition, one with some additional improvised notes. There are also added notes in the Waltz op 34 #2, but I couldn’t understand if he’s following some alternative version, or he’s simply adding his personal touch to the score.
The double thirds are beautiful and I really like this alternative. However I don't care for the other extra decorative notes added. Too much of a good thing is actually bad. It takes away the freshness from the piece. It is like Chinese food with too much sauce
Competitions enforce conformity. Everybody sounds like everybode else. 50% virtuosity, 50% pleasant sound, 0% creativity. Robert Levin is right to advocate for improvisation to become mandatory in competitions.
I agree wholeheartedly with the message of this video. It's a perennial argument I had with a dear old friend who was of the school that a musician sticks most utterly to the script. Like a professor I heard only recently (might have been on this channel) throwing scorn on "students who think they hear other sub-melodies in Chopin". Thing is, I would be one of those wretched students, because I do. There's something in his lyricism that opens further doors even as I play and sometimes I see contours or even imagine embellishments that are there where I went, not here on the page. I regard it as a high tribute to Chopin that what he left us triggers this voyaging spirit in me. My friend regarded it as "amateurism and vandalism". The entire question of improvisation throughout performance fascinates me. I would have loved more to hear Mozart or Liszt improvise - really, truly, on-the-spot improvise more than hear them perform. Or Mahler, Widor, Sant-Säens, Prokofiev, Haydn... Are these, what we heard in a wonderful recording, truly improvised? A couple of them are not really to my taste and jar a bit in their rather harsh intricacy. They do not all have the feel of emerging spontaneously from some rapture within the music.
Great JOB…! … in the past composers use to outline the music and the player would add their take … that is what keeps music alive… giving their own twist and zest
Alain Planès has recorded some of these works with the variations and they’re the definitive versions for me. Played on Chopin’s old Pleyel piano as well!
After all these years snd the countless performances Paderewsky,Hofmann,Moisewitsch,Lhevinne,Hirowitz,Rubinsteien this music still brings tears and this guy is hit nail Chopinist. I need to relisten yo DePachmann ;he was taken seriously by other highly esteemed masters so there must be something there!
I mean if Chopin did this kind of stuff, he is essentially freely improvising over a harmony with those fiorituras. I can imagine every performace being different, not only 2 possible versions. I would very much love this kind of work to continue. Edit: The summary of the video essentially talks about it.
I love it! Wish he would have done more. Unfortunately the whole “urtext” movement has ruined so many generations of conservatory musicians, turning their performances into a recitation of Latin instead of being able to speak the living language of music. Unfortunate that it has come to a “dare’ in order to do something original. I wish I would have figured that out years ago!
@@jtandy yes, it’s interesting how strong the ideology of “urtext” is on classical piano performance since WW2. Most of us are slaves to the printed note, myself included. It feels “wrong” to take liberties, even though the composer himself did in this work. My sense is that Chopin had amateur consumers of sheet music in mind when he chose the specific notes for publication in his Op9 Nocturnes - there are some written-in embellishments that we all know from the million recordings and performances of them. But in a way those are training wheels for musicians who wouldn’t have thought of them otherwise. Chopin shared these variants with his more talented students, and yet it’s the “starter” version that we spend so much time pondering over the “composer’s intentions.” Ironic.
@@benlawdy Thanks for the comment Ben! I love your channel for many reasons, but one of the great things that it does is it gets the conversation started!! When I look back on my own conservatory education, I had some really great teachers and so many wonderful memories. They were all taught to be "on the page" musicians themselves so had no desire to talk about topics like these. What I understand now though is that music is a "craft" and great craftsmanship rises to the level of art. The problem with the conservatory education is that composers are on one side of the room and performers are on the other. As pianists especially, we are not taught the craft of music. We have the pinnacles of art placed in front of us from day one with the direction to memorise and recite it. It's like asking someone to recite a beautiful poem in a language that they are not conversationally fluent in themselves. Why not teach students to say "How are you?", "Wonderful day today" before asking them to recite Dickens?
I totally disagree. I despise 19th Century liberties that interpreters took with the countless composers. There has to be consistency. Otherwise it all becomes nonsense!
@@musiclover4311 there was plenty of excess to be sure back in the day, but in my opinion we’ve been so imprisoned by the overreaction to that freer romantic style of playing that we’ve almost completely lost touch with the organic musicianship that gave rise to it. My musical skills are totally one-dimensional and stunted by the legacy os “faithfully” reproducing notes on a page that I’m more interested in the ongoing movements to renew training in improvisation in historical styles and rediscover this great music from the inside-out - as fluent and free-thinking musicians and not slavish reciters of a foreign language.
@@benlawdy There are many pianosts who chose alternatives or simplifications and got away with it even in chopin competitions. I don't know about others but of all the people who has been judges I am pretty sure Fou Tsong and Argerich would have no problem if the liberties are on the "notes" level and what they see as loyal to chopin's intensions are far beyond "playing what urtext says"
Meanwhile: When Liszt played one of his nocturnes, he said, "Keep that pig out of my garden." because Liszt added his own embellishments. Probably a little too Lisztian for his taste. But it still an undeservedly harsh words for an incredible composer such as Liszt. In my opinion, today's standard of piano playing still provides a lot of opportunities to create something unique and reflects one's individual musicianship. It may frowned upon to embellish and add new notes, but you can make your playing unique in terms of the dynamics, tempo, pedalling, the phrasing. Even within the "boundaries" of the written text, we can still have A LOT of leeway. Hence why Zimerman's Chopin sounds so different than Lugansky's. Pogorelich always has an "eccentric" interpretation that he even got booted off the competition while still playing the notes as written. I also think it depends on the type of work you're playing. If it's Waltzes, or Nocturnes, or Impromptus, then yes. Those are more open. But not for highly formal and large-scale works like his Sonatas, Ballades, or his Concertos.
I agree and that’s the tradition I’m coming from. I’m not an improviser and it would be hard for me to make embellishments like this sound organic. My channel is usually dedicated to those aspects of subtle differences in interpretation that you describe, and that I find so unique and special about the art form. But I recognize there is a limit to that pursuit of small differences in interpretation, especially when it comes at the expense of more fluent forms of musicianship.
Also I totally agree - the embellishments work well in certain nocturnes (not so the later ones!), because it’s really built into the form ( being bel canto arias, essentially). Embellishing the 4th ballade like this would be borderline sinful 😆
@@benlawdy Thank you for your response. I do appreciate this type of videos where you delve deeper on Chopin. Listening to the Golden of the Piano guys like Cortot, de Pachmann, or Paderewsky is a really good lesson, just like you said. Their sense of rubato are beautiful. Some would say they were "artists" rather than just a "performer". Koczalski certainly has that, and he had a direct pedigree to the master himself.
People get so mad about others disrupting the "Sanctity of the music", but I would say music is itself, in all forms, already sacred. Changes or embellishments is natural.
I agree with you Ben, and it's refreshing to see this in a Polish National edition by Ekiers. Personally I cannot see a jury not being charmed by any student who gave such a performance.
I’m no great pianist, but it’s so fun to take a Chopin piece and use it as a basis for improvising something unrecognisable from the original. I found you can sometimes do this with a Beethoven piece. I think they improvised when performing their own works also - we can only see the published versions, but I doubt they were ever performed as written in those days. :)
I have Chopin's notations from another source, and when I play this nocturne, I always add them in. Doing so taught me something -- this is probably just one version of additions. Chopin was known to improvise ornamentation like this on several of his pieces (but certainly not all). Undoubtedly he would have enjoyed hearing another pianist add their own thoughts to any piece. And so I have added a few of my own ornaments, and changed some of Chopin's around. By doing so, they come out much more effortlessly, partly because they my own fit my hand very well. But it's because it's an ornament that I like and feels right. In this way, Chopin was playing like jazz pianists today who make their own versions of popular songs. But yes, I have no doubt people who chide me by saying "that's not Chopin!"
Just what I have explained to people over many years. The super talented pianist/composers varied their works, Rachmaninoff another example. This is especially important for amateurs like me - do not get hung up on rigid detail, just make beautiful music.
@@th1rtyf0ur- Yes, I know this well. I learned most from Rachmaninoff on this issue over the years. I always keep in mind Oscar Peterson’s comment - It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that swing. This is just what Raoul Koczalski has in this performance, though maybe better to say ‘flow’ than ‘swing’. It’s something you feel with Arthur Rubinstein’s playing.
Surely depends on rules of the competition: if they want Urtext that's what you had better play. If you can pick and choose pieces then feel free to do so!
This clip is taken from Episode 2 of The Chopin Podcast. Check out the full 90-minute episode:
Listen on Apple ➡podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nocturnes/id1765998900?i=1000672535990
Listen on Spotify ➡open.spotify.com/episode/3rEASI329auARdFiO7Pcxz?si=0a8ec393af154131
And make sure to follow the podcast, since there's 10 more episodes to come this fall covering all of Chopin's major compositional genres.
I was recently invited to host the National Chopin Competition livestreams from Miami this January. I said yes, on one condition: that I partner with the Chopin Foundation of the United States to create an multipart series digging deep into Chopin's music and approaching it from different angles with Garrick Ohlsson and a host of other guests. I'm honored that they agreed to my proposal! We're still beginning of what will be an ongoing collaboration through the fall, in anticipation of the big Chopin year in 2025 - as the best young Chopin pianists seek entry into the International Chopin Competition in Warsaw, where they will compete for the ultimate prize in arguably the biggest classical music event in the world.
Go ahead and subscribe to the US Chopin Foundation's UA-cam channel, where the livestreams will be aired in January: www.youtube.com/@chopinfoundationoftheunite8079
To learn more about the Foundation, and the US National Chopin Competition, check out their website: chopin.org
For more on The Chopin Podcast, visit chopinpodcast.com
Ben, at 5:03, in the first set of lh triplets, he played the 3rd chord as a triad instead of the chord I am used to hearing (it repeats 2 bars later with the chord as we usually hear it). Why would he do this? Was he improvising? Or did he play a 'wrong' note? The embellishment in the rh is clearly purposeful. But that one chord sounded odd. To me 😅!
I am not a musician and I don't know how to describe it with the correct terms. Hope you know what I mean!
LOVE your podcast. I first heard you talking about Yunchan and have listened dozens of times since. I had no idea there was so much complexity to be discussed. I am enthralled.
Hey Ben, please start linking where we can buy the shirts that you wear. I already had to search for the Gould one and couldn’t find a reliable source! I think a storefront with these shirts would be great for the channel.
This is why I love Chick Corea's take on Prelude Op. 28 it's both his and Chopin's. It's lovely.
@MrGreenAKAguci00 Whoa! I just googled that...love it. Thanks
The score is not music. It is the instructions to create the musical experience. I greatly enjoyed Koczalski's interpretation.
Instructions including what notes to play. You can't add whole phrases, or the composer would write "feel free to add whatever phrases you feel in the moment" or similar.
@@kewkabeYou're just wrong. They didn't have to write it, because it was common practice. Actually weird not to. The greats played each other's music in concert and toyed around with it. Every good performer did this. It would only be necessary to write "do not change any of these notes. Play exactly what is written." Historical context matters a lot when we talk about what the score means
@@aidanmays7825 As well as the present context. Sadly, room for improvisation slowly dissipated as a common practice for classical musicians. It's normal to be authentic now, not improvisational. I wish we could renormalize the former.
@@kewkabeyou sure can add whole phrases. Try it, your piano won't light on fire and the composer won't ever know.
@@deadfisher0000 Yes, try improvising at any piano competition or music school audition and enjoy the big "REJECT" letter you get.
my mother was born in 1912. She was a very fine pianist. Chopin was her second favourite composer (after Beethoven). She played lots an lots of his works, including this Nocturne. She played with a particular type of feeling I don't hear nowadays. Maybe she inherited this tradition. Interestingly she last played it in a concert she and I gave in a church when she was 99. She died four months later. God bless her.
Do you have the recording?
@@kunikpiano Yes I do. She had also broken her hip and I wheeled her down from the hospital in a chair, so with all that the technique is not up to scratch!!! But she remembered the whole thing and only had a couple of hesitations. It was quite an experience for everyone.
@@hornerookupload it or it didn't happen...
@@ciararespect4296 Dude ... ciara not so respect. We're talking about someone's 99 years old mother playing from the heart for no other reason than love of music. Not some guy bragging he ate the hottest pepper no milk.
@@solaufein3029but we need upload regardless. No point in teasing saying he's got the recording. 🤣🤣🤣
I was prepared for something even more ornamented. That performance felt somewhat restrained and entirely in good taste. Thanks for the upload.
@@DeeCeeHaich it's an expression meaning it is "adequate and doesn't disturb conventional expectations."
@@DeeCeeHaichOur saviour whatismusic123, what are your opinions on this video?
When I was finishing listening to Koczalski's performance, I had a comment ready in my head that I wanted to write - including the statement that after the introductory story I expected bolder improvisations and modifications, and the phrase "with taste". As it happens, such a comment has already been written by someone before 🙂
greatest opera composer to never write an opera
? Unable to understand
@@yoyogie69 Chopin's nocturnes are (obviously) inspired by opera music. One could even say they are opera arias transcribed for the piano.
Bach also never wrote an opera
His teachers tried to persuade him to write one... sad he never took up their suggestion
I have an even more pithy quip - 'Schubert was the greatest opera composer never to have composed a successful opera'
The point in his playing is not only the ornamentation-he is listening even the shadows of each note and giving time.He is a true poet!
well said... you can tell the rubato is informed by the way we are supposed to "listen" to the sounds
Challenge accepted!!!...
I'm a competitor at the Miami Chopin Competition and watching your video a few weeks ago was the final inspiration that made me program the Nocturne Op. 9 nº 2 with embellishments as part of my competition repertoire in the second round. This pianist even has my name!... or the other way around...
Thank you for your work, Ben!
@@pianoimagination looking forward to meeting you and hearing you play it Raúl!
I wish the best!
😮
I agree with the comment below that competitions encourage conformity rather than overall beauty and taste. Koczalski's interpretation is wonderfully refreshing. I've read accounts of Chopin's own playing which testify that he never played a work the same way twice.
You know even in his repeats, Chopin often made small changes, which makes it more interesting to both the performer and listener.
It is well known among competition-calibre pianists that competitions discourage originality. I go for the obvious explanation - originality will usually split any good jury because normally people have different opinions. So the competitors that win are the ones who ruffle the fewest feathers, which almost always means the ones who take the least risks. That's an unstated but omnipresent criterion imposed on all competitors, perverse but nonetheless very real.
4:53 Man I need to start drilling thirds...
Chopin had a very specific fingering for them. Make sure you use it! There’s basically no other way.
hahaha i did not see that one coming, might've been a bit much imo
@@benlawdy Do you perchance have a link to a score with his fingering?
@@LukeFaulkner It's printed in the newest Polish National Edition of the Nocturnes in a footnote, but not in the older version I used in this video. I will write it out here, if this makes any sense. This is specifically for the descending RH run in minor 3rds heard in this recording:
2-3. F-Ab
1-4. E-G
2-3. Eb-Gb
1-5. D-F
2-4. C#-E
2-3. C-Eb (slide)
1-4. B-D
2-3 Bb-Db
1-5 A-C
2-4. Ab-Cb
1-3. G-Bb
2-4. F#-A
2-3. F-Ab (slide)
etc
@@benlawdy There are ten other ways that work depending on one's hand, and the 1-5s are probably unhealthy for most people.
To do well in a competition, you must have flawless technique and no less than middle of the road musicality. The art of piano playing - or music making in general - is to know how to play that which is not written. When you are always looking over your shoulder to see what other people think, you've lost your originality.
Thanks for wording it out!
Music isn't the notes on a page. Music is the soul, the vibe, the emotions you can draw out of your instrument. Technical playing is impressive. Playing with such intense emotion that it makes you or others cry is transcending.
My professor said that it was normal for performers to delay the right hand by a split second to emphasise the difference of the melody and accompaniment.
But it is not something we do, for decades now.
This is still very common. Listen to any recent recording of the op. 9 no. 2 and you'll hear it all over the place.
Do you know the name of the technique?
@@shadowninja5557 no
I feel like I must be an outlier based on other comments, but I really don't like how it sounds😢
@@LeeCanPotato I think if they do it tastefully, then it is fine, and it has to be very slight for me to no be disturbed by it.
If it is overexaggerated and the delay takes your attention away from the music, then I agree, it would be tough to listen to.
Sensational video! Wow, I've been studying these nocturnes for decades and never knew there were alternate versions. Videos like these are pure gold for music enthusiasts and students alike!
Don't forget, at the time this was popular music, everyone could input their own musicianship in the score. Something like what now cover songs are.
That was a truly beautiful interpretation of the piece. Nothing superfluous in the ornamentation.
Koczakski's version is exquisite. I'm getting that Ekier edition. Happily, I could careless about any piano competitions, but to play as Chopin might have played....? Quick send it airmail.
I HATE Kaczalski nonsense!
@@musiclover4311oh, stop it! You dare to call yourself music lover and then use “HATE” to describe an intensely musical performance of this nocturne. You are a bore…nothing more. Extract the stick from within your rectum and learn to enjoy things outside your teeny bubble.
I'm fine with the altered embellishments, but the right hand almost constantly lagging really puts me off.
@@Higgon It's actually one of the older styles of playing, meant to emphasize the melody notes. I quite like it, even if it is an extremity here.
Ekier, you mean. Enjoy!
This is the best version of this piece I have ever heard. The embellishments are never flashy to the point of detracting from the mood and never undermine the flow of the piece. Thank you for bringing this up and I am a new subscriber.
Away from the purpose of this video, listening to this renowned nocturne once again made me realize just how much of a wonder Chopin makes out of simplicity…
My girlfriend and I bought a record featuring old recordings of different vocal and instrumental artists from the shellac era. This was feautred on it and we almost brushed it off thinking we’d heard it played thousands of times before. As soon as it came on we were on the floor laughing with happiness! It was like hearing it for the first time😂❤
It's two steps removed from hearing Chopin play the piece himself...
i like that you posted the whole recording no interruption. You got taste.
This tangentially supports my contention that until recently many conservatory classically trained instrumentalist were taught to be a slave to the score. Up until the early 1950's you still had some of the older generation performers take liberties with the score and yet were revered for their performance (Maria Callas for sometimes extreme tempo fluctuations that, to her great credit, worked marvelously).
you mean "... only recently many conservatory classically trained instrumentalist are taught ..."
'Slave To The Score' sounds like a prog-rock band from Iceland in the late-1970s.
Callas wasn't an instrumentalist. Opera's performing tradition isn't as interpretation-oriented as it once was, but there's still much more of it there than in any other form of classical music.
"a slave to the score." "Slave" is a loaded, pejorative term. Say rather "faithful to what the composer actually wrote."
@@JimC No slave to the score is better from some of the interpretations I hear. Words can have literal and figurative meanings. I mean the latter. of course I could be cruel and say that the way some classical musicians are trained it seems they are no more than automatons and only a step away from a digital recording of a piece of music (one can call it mastering the art of frozen music).
Note too there are written accounts of Chopin completely playing his pieces with many differences from the score in the indications of tempi and touch. Also one must be wary of metronome markings added to scores from late Beethoven through the mid 1800's - especially Chopin. The metronome markings tended to be inaccurate as composers adapted slowly to the new fangled invention of the metronome. I am not saying composers desired obviously incorrect tempi but often it was informed by knowledge of the practices and currents of the time (in fact a knowledge of the dance forms/forms of music for royalty and some of the folk music can be more helpful in informing good tempi than Maezel's metronome which was actually a copy of the original inventor - Winkel).
Oh and if you are going to be so careful with the use of certain words, then please listen to Grace Jones "Slave To The Rhythm" pop song and offer a better alternative.
Thank you for sharing this! In college, I had to perform a collection of his works for a piano class (which I also had to analyze in music theory), and I never came across this! New perspectives are very refreshing.
Could you see a new prize for something like "Unique Interpretation" happening in future competitions?
I would like to remind Ben that Eric Lu did a crazy thing in the Chopin competition. When he played the a min mazurka op 17 no 4 he pumped up the middle section in a way that is not written. He played it like it was a rock anthem or something.
I think you are referring to a "dolce" A major section with obsessive base and crescendo until climax... I see it like if Chopin inviting a group of happy peasants to the Parisian aristocratic salons. The base indeed needs to be "pumped" almost to a degree of annoyance. Almost like if a peasant band was approaching from a distance ending up under your windows... :). This section is like a lively Oberek, which then comes back to a subtle slow Kujawiak. Eric Lu interpretation is "spot on" to me, expressing Chopin's intentions to contrast in a somewhat "shocking" way.
Well.... my few cents. I played it with a similar intention before reading this comment.
@@kriswiwatowski4697 fair enough. I am a musical peasant. Yet my favourite meal is pheasant. Do you find my comment unpleasant? No - but joking aside, I have nothing against Eric's interpretation. He played it excellently. Furthermore, he plays Schubert's d899 four impromptus on YT so he can't be all bad.
Loved this video and always thought Koczalski was underrated. I find him if not more polished, more *imaginative* than Rubinstein.
Koczalski is as Polished as Rubinstein.
Sorry, that's the worst joke. I'm having a weird day.
Overdone IMO
5:01 for the left hand its actually Ab major first, then Ab minor and resolves to Eb major which is interesting and somehow fits and sounds so good
this little addition of happy to sad chord is my favorite thing so far
Minor Plagal cadence
When I play the piece, I play Ab major for bar 17 and Ab minor for bar 18. The original is boring to me to repeat the same chord progression twice (Ab minor -> Eb major).
Yah, that Ab major jumped out at me - not at all in a good way - and I had to rewind the video to compare with the score to see if it was actually notated that way (it was not). Bravo in general, but not right there, hehe ...
Yuppppppppppp
@@DeeCeeHaich Its absolutely hilarious to scroll through the comments and seeing you have a tantrum in the replies of anybody who DARES disagree with the arbiter of true music, Whatismusic123. I hope 8th grade is treating you well
What an absolutely beautiful interpretation of this nocturn!!!!!
Thoroughly enjoyed listening to it !!!!
Thank you ❤
It's absurd how we have normalized playing romantic composers into something that would make them puke, all while claiming its to respect their score as some kind of sacred divinity.
MANY Composer's performances were very varied. It is well documented, for example, that Beethoven never played the same way twice, - ditto with Mozart and the Classical Composers. I'm not that good a piano player, but I never play the same way twice.
The same was said about Greek literature many years ago by a Greek lit professor. He went on to show how it should be done and it was unwatchable. Any art is a living thing and not some fossil for an archeologist to scrape the dust from.
Yea bad then worse 😂@@dewarfinch1
@@dewarfinch1same with Rachmaninov, which you can actually hear in his recordings
@@neiladlington912 Why unwatchable?
Imagine, just for a moment, that a performance like this would win that competition.
To the same point, but a bit different... I studied piano seriously and recall our Friday get togethers where students would critique each other. One student play a Nocturne I believe (cannot reacll the exact opus) and in it there were notations to play triplets, then perhaps a quintuplet, then another triplet, a duplet then it resolves (this is just illustrative). The student plays the 3-5-3-2-1 with metronomic prescision. When it came my turn to comment I stated "In this bar it sounded as if you were playing this melodic flourish perfectly in time with a metronome". Here response - "Thank you". I just kept my mouth shut. It was not a compliment at all and I am certain my instructor knew exactly what I was pointing out.
Notation is at times only an approximation. What might be a totally organic improvisation has to be conveyed by the constraints of notation.
One year I won a piano competition and the Gm Ballade was one of the works I played. That year I received high marks for a mature interpretation. I was anything but metronomic. The next year I did another competition and played a better rendition - but equally expressive - and got skewered for my liberties. Can't please everybody all the time.
To pull this off today, it has to be done with conviction and has to sound sincere and not as if you listened to Koczalski 100 times and are doing your best impersonation.
@@Daniel_Zalman yes but I’d like to hear some pianists try so we can have precisely that discussion about whether it worked or not.
@@benlawdy I think it works in Koczalski’s interpretation because he was a composer and, probably, a natural improviser. I suspect that most pianists from that era could improvise and compose a little. That’s why it sounds natural when Koczalski inserts these embellishments, because it is. Now, everything is very specialized. I’m guessing most conservatory students don’t regularly improvise or compose miniatures, but they’ll probably be able to play a note-perfect sub 3 minute and 30 second Feux Follet.
Minus the added embellishments, i used to sometimes play like that, but i find i bend time less dramatically these days. But i habe been told i have a strange ability to bend time and keep things hanging together in a very seemingly natural way. But maybe that is because i both write and improvise. Or maybe if you wish to believe in the 19th century nonsense of genetics it is the asiatic aspect in conflict with the the tuetonic. Beats me. I just know i detest people that think metronomes are to be scrupulously observed.
@@Daniel_ZalmanWhich they probably shouldn't as Liszt's direction for feux follets is allegretto.
@@Daniel_Zalman There's no such thing as a "natural improviser". Improvisation is a learned skill, and it's precisely for that reason that no one does it much in classical music anymore; we stopped teaching it, so it stopped being learnt. If you want to improvise you're going to have to learn how, just like Chopin, Beethoven, Brahms and Liszt did. It's ENTIRELY doable. Feux Follet is more than likely the result of one of Liszt's improvisations that he eventually wrote down. Sure it's impressive to play, but I would argue improvising is an exponentially more important skill. I have never made any money playing Feux Follet (despite loving playing it), but I've played many paid concerts of improvised classical music, jazz, klezmer, Country, Musical Theatre, Musical Comedy, and more.
In any form this Nocturne is simply one of the best pieces of music ever written. It is entirely the reason I play piano right now avidly. Lately I have been gleefully going down the Schubert rabbit hole who's music has become for me as revered as Chopin's and actually find many of Schubert's pieces more suitable for listening over and over.
This might be my favorite piece of music of all time. What an incredible performance through my phone speaker while driving and it gave me chills. Genius
Word on the street is that Chopin himself was a master improviser. So what Koczalski played would be in line with Chopin's playing. Op. 9 #2 is not one of my favorite Chopin works (overplayed) but Koczalski's interpretation was beautiful. That passage in 3rds at meas. 17a was amazing. Very enjoyable video. Thanks for posting. Also, where can I get that T-shirt???
it reminds me of a story I heard Arthur Rubinstein say about Saint Saens when he would preform. He once preformed with Francis Plante (someone who personally heard Chopin play) and they would play together during concerts, talk to each other while playing and comment on each others playing during the performance. Or the leschetizky piano rolls, where he uses a technique called dislocation where the two hands don't play together. Leschetizky hands were essentially in different time zones
Plante is wonderful, tragically obscure, and I love Rubinstein's interview in which he mentions him. But I believe he must have been very young when he heard Chopin play, if that story is true- too young for it to make a difference.
The hands in separate time is something Mozart said about slow movements, too.
@@Schubertd960 I think he was around 10 or so
@@Schubertd960 already a prodigy, so no
Where can I learn about that technique? I heard about it some time ago but didn't remember its name.
amazing video. i think about this topic so frequently. ive been getting into jazz improvisation recently and i kinda think its because of this feeling of imprisonment ill sometimes get when playing classical. I've loved "pre-war" recordings from the first time i listened to one ❤
You can do your own variations on any classical piece. That's more than enough jazzing around with. Or even better, write your own piece(s). What prevents you? Ah, yes, lack of real talent. Then it's easier "to complain." But remember that Classical music is same as the literature and the art from times past: it's an EXACT FINGERPRINT of times, remarkable testimony of people's lives, and is to be respected in that regard. It's people's authentic experience, NOT yours meddling into it and then selling it as theirs. But if you demand to "improvise on it" during all occasions rather than composing your own, then why don't you also fix Mona Lisa's smile, stitch back Van Gogh's ear and add a fresh few lines in Shakespeare's Hamlet? You surely have talent for all that?
@@zvonimirtosic6171The joy of improvising should not be put down.
@@declandougan7243 You don't have enough of know-how to "improvise" in the style of Romanticism. You don't even know how to maintain that aesthetic and philosophical idea which Chopin manages to do throughout his compositions. But if you "really want it", then you will re-compose it - not improvise it - for the "style" you are doodling in today. Which is the same as drawing moustaches to Mona Lisa, piercing her nose and dressing her up as a Brooklyn hooker.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 I am not an improviser. I do compose my own pieces. Just saying don’t put people down.
@@declandougan7243 I can't "put down" someone who is already crawling on the ground and has no idea or direction about some concepts in music.
Thanks Ben: wonderful video on that wonderful playing. As well as revolutionising piano technique and composition, it is almost as it Chopin gave a pre taste of jazz via improv. (transmitted to us via his student’s student reaching us from the early recording era: what a joyful gift across the ages). But then Mozart was a spontaneous improviser, whose wife insisted he write it down for posterity. Here’s to classical improvisation. Maybe one of the requirements of the Chopin competitions in future can be one piece, perhaps in the second or third round, in which the competitors are *required* to improvise in the spirit of Chopin!!
I'd play this version if I had the chops. Particularly liked the double thirds!
Thank you for posting this! Beautiful.
Beautiful Chopin arrangements over his own composition. It's a priviledge to get to hear them so delightfully played.
Beautiful playing, thank you for this wonderful and informative upload. I like the major-sounding harmony variant at 5:02
This just shows how composer noted for a memorable reference who ever said they way song are composed is the exact way the composer performed them. Scriabin is another perfect example of this. Especially with his live recording that survived. Excellent video BROTHER!
There are no live recordings of Scriabin playing his own music. Scriabin only recorded a number of pianorolls for Hupfeld and Welte in 1908 and 1910.
2:38 that's literally jazz, after that the movement sounds very jazz also. wow thanks for sharing
Enchanting and exciting. First Prize in the First Round !!!
Best video on UA-cam for a while. Thanks.
I have always played Chopin like this, even repeating some sections or adding chromatic passing tones even on LH chords. or playing octaves over some bass notes, etc. I also repeat some sections I like a lot, like the B theme (on his 3 repetitions) of the 1st Ballade, or the B section on Op. 3 Polonaise, etc. I read that Chopin would do this, but I never listened someone playing like this besides jazzy contexts. I love to know I was actually being genuine. My musician friends "hate" free rubato, cadenzas, adding notes or the fact that I play with the tunning system of those times, but I don't care. It's called piano "solo". Rubato and wild improvisations are almost called for piano.
I've read Chopin hated the idea of "recitals" where you mindlessly just play what's written, and that he improvised quite a lot.
I don't see how anyone can be a musician and disapprove of adding musicality to a performance.
Thanks, this was an absolute delight !
I didn't even know there were alternate versions to the chopin classics. This is incredible and super exciting
Please recognize the fact that the Paderewski includes the Mikuli (and Oxford ed.) ornaments in the addendum of the edition I have owned for decades, so it's not "new" that the ornaments have been published.
@@ddgyt50 good to know! I also wanted to drive the point home that the whole nocturne is re-engraved with variants in the edition currently recommended by the competition, so maybe a pianist will not be afraid to try them out on stage - and maybe even take other liberties. But I guess the Paderewski was the previous national edition, right? So it’s been “authorized” for a while. Maybe there are pianists who’ve tried them in competitions in decades past and just don’t know about them.
Loved his interpretation....❤Playful and creative...
Chopin used to change his own scores while giving lessons, if there is one music that shouldn’t be strictly set in stone, it’s certainly his.
Gorgeous interpretation!
What is art if not free expression? I'm enamoured by Koczalski's interpretation, and glad to have found this video. I know so many musicians that change up their compositions through time and depending on how they feel that day when playing. The thought we cannot build upon the greats, and mix ours with their work, is a sad one in my eyes
I've always thought this was probably the case. Good work pointing it out!
You endorsing Mark Ainley feels so good. Both on a high level when it comes to evangelising classical piano on UA-cam. Who's next, The Music Professor? :)
I think its important to remember that Chopin would often improvise at soirée's and then later write down what was played. He was always working on stuff write up to the point of sending it to the publisher, some even got different versions of the same piece.
It’s in the F. Tarrega transcription for classical guitar, well some of it …. Thank you for sharing this!
The Tarrega and the classical guitar tradition of playing this piece is very inspired! Pianists could learn something from it.
As a jazz player I find the concept of "authentic variants" to be amusing. Welcome to the dark side
@@alextgordon haha well it’s funny because we classical pianists have to deal with our old dead heroes, most of whom were improv wizards but lived before the recording era. So this is the closest to transcribing a Chopin solo as it gets for us!
Chopin will tear your heart to pieces then gently place the broken pieces back together.
On the topic of daring to play like in the XIX century, today Libetta released an entire recording of Chopin’s music where he plays as if he were a pupil of Mikuli. He plays short improvisations before most pieces, makes great use of rubato, and he adds notes. He plays also the nocturnes op 9 # 2, but a slightly different version of the Mikuli’s edition, one with some additional improvised notes. There are also added notes in the Waltz op 34 #2, but I couldn’t understand if he’s following some alternative version, or he’s simply adding his personal touch to the score.
Thank you Ben.
The double thirds are beautiful and I really like this alternative. However I don't care for the other extra decorative notes added. Too much of a good thing is actually bad. It takes away the freshness from the piece. It is like Chinese food with too much sauce
When competing in the Laver cup the tennis team that most faithfully mimics the playing style of Rod Laver wins.
Absolutely fascinating
Competitions enforce conformity. Everybody sounds like everybode else. 50% virtuosity, 50% pleasant sound, 0% creativity.
Robert Levin is right to advocate for improvisation to become mandatory in competitions.
This is your best video yet Ben! More like it. (grand pupil of the late Sergei Tarnowsky).
Absolutely beautiful performance. Thanks
It’s absolutely beautiful ❤
I agree wholeheartedly with the message of this video. It's a perennial argument I had with a dear old friend who was of the school that a musician sticks most utterly to the script. Like a professor I heard only recently (might have been on this channel) throwing scorn on "students who think they hear other sub-melodies in Chopin".
Thing is, I would be one of those wretched students, because I do. There's something in his lyricism that opens further doors even as I play and sometimes I see contours or even imagine embellishments that are there where I went, not here on the page. I regard it as a high tribute to Chopin that what he left us triggers this voyaging spirit in me. My friend regarded it as "amateurism and vandalism".
The entire question of improvisation throughout performance fascinates me. I would have loved more to hear Mozart or Liszt improvise - really, truly, on-the-spot improvise more than hear them perform. Or Mahler, Widor, Sant-Säens, Prokofiev, Haydn...
Are these, what we heard in a wonderful recording, truly improvised? A couple of them are not really to my taste and jar a bit in their rather harsh intricacy. They do not all have the feel of emerging spontaneously from some rapture within the music.
Even more beautiful
Great JOB…! … in the past composers use to outline the music and the player would add their take … that is what keeps music alive… giving their own twist and zest
Bruce Liu taps in a few variants on the Fazioli in his Deutsche Grammophon video of Opus 20 C#minor Nocturne.
Ok I will get right on it ,just give me 100 years or so to get the first version down
Thanks for sharing!!
My singing teacher used to say to me that the music was not the notes on the page.
Gran descubrimiento. Gracias 🙏🏼👏🏼
Excellent video!!
Classical music is highly elevated folk music!
Alain Planès has recorded some of these works with the variations and they’re the definitive versions for me. Played on Chopin’s old Pleyel piano as well!
I seem to remember that there exist some pianola recordings of Chopin's. Would be interesting to listen to.
So beautiful!
After all these years snd the countless performances Paderewsky,Hofmann,Moisewitsch,Lhevinne,Hirowitz,Rubinsteien this music still brings tears and this guy is hit nail Chopinist. I need to relisten yo DePachmann ;he was taken seriously by other highly esteemed masters so there must be something there!
I read Chopin improvised and often had trouble getting down on paper what he had played.
I mean if Chopin did this kind of stuff, he is essentially freely improvising over a harmony with those fiorituras. I can imagine every performace being different, not only 2 possible versions. I would very much love this kind of work to continue.
Edit: The summary of the video essentially talks about it.
It's been said that Chopin seldomly played the same piece twice the same.
Ben, thank you so much for these amazing podcasts.
I love it! Wish he would have done more. Unfortunately the whole “urtext” movement has ruined so many generations of conservatory musicians, turning their performances into a recitation of Latin instead of being able to speak the living language of music. Unfortunate that it has come to a “dare’ in order to do something original. I wish I would have figured that out years ago!
@@jtandy yes, it’s interesting how strong the ideology of “urtext” is on classical piano performance since WW2. Most of us are slaves to the printed note, myself included. It feels “wrong” to take liberties, even though the composer himself did in this work. My sense is that Chopin had amateur consumers of sheet music in mind when he chose the specific notes for publication in his Op9 Nocturnes - there are some written-in embellishments that we all know from the million recordings and performances of them. But in a way those are training wheels for musicians who wouldn’t have thought of them otherwise. Chopin shared these variants with his more talented students, and yet it’s the “starter” version that we spend so much time pondering over the “composer’s intentions.” Ironic.
@@benlawdy Thanks for the comment Ben! I love your channel for many reasons, but one of the great things that it does is it gets the conversation started!! When I look back on my own conservatory education, I had some really great teachers and so many wonderful memories. They were all taught to be "on the page" musicians themselves so had no desire to talk about topics like these. What I understand now though is that music is a "craft" and great craftsmanship rises to the level of art. The problem with the conservatory education is that composers are on one side of the room and performers are on the other. As pianists especially, we are not taught the craft of music. We have the pinnacles of art placed in front of us from day one with the direction to memorise and recite it. It's like asking someone to recite a beautiful poem in a language that they are not conversationally fluent in themselves. Why not teach students to say "How are you?", "Wonderful day today" before asking them to recite Dickens?
I totally disagree. I despise 19th Century liberties that interpreters took with the countless composers. There has to be consistency. Otherwise it all becomes nonsense!
@@musiclover4311 there was plenty of excess to be sure back in the day, but in my opinion we’ve been so imprisoned by the overreaction to that freer romantic style of playing that we’ve almost completely lost touch with the organic musicianship that gave rise to it. My musical skills are totally one-dimensional and stunted by the legacy os “faithfully” reproducing notes on a page that I’m more interested in the ongoing movements to renew training in improvisation in historical styles and rediscover this great music from the inside-out - as fluent and free-thinking musicians and not slavish reciters of a foreign language.
@@benlawdy There are many pianosts who chose alternatives or simplifications and got away with it even in chopin competitions. I don't know about others but of all the people who has been judges I am pretty sure Fou Tsong and Argerich would have no problem if the liberties are on the "notes" level and what they see as loyal to chopin's intensions are far beyond "playing what urtext says"
I can see the jury giggling when listening to Kozalski
Meanwhile: When Liszt played one of his nocturnes, he said, "Keep that pig out of my garden." because Liszt added his own embellishments. Probably a little too Lisztian for his taste. But it still an undeservedly harsh words for an incredible composer such as Liszt.
In my opinion, today's standard of piano playing still provides a lot of opportunities to create something unique and reflects one's individual musicianship. It may frowned upon to embellish and add new notes, but you can make your playing unique in terms of the dynamics, tempo, pedalling, the phrasing. Even within the "boundaries" of the written text, we can still have A LOT of leeway. Hence why Zimerman's Chopin sounds so different than Lugansky's. Pogorelich always has an "eccentric" interpretation that he even got booted off the competition while still playing the notes as written.
I also think it depends on the type of work you're playing. If it's Waltzes, or Nocturnes, or Impromptus, then yes. Those are more open. But not for highly formal and large-scale works like his Sonatas, Ballades, or his Concertos.
I agree and that’s the tradition I’m coming from. I’m not an improviser and it would be hard for me to make embellishments like this sound organic. My channel is usually dedicated to those aspects of subtle differences in interpretation that you describe, and that I find so unique and special about the art form. But I recognize there is a limit to that pursuit of small differences in interpretation, especially when it comes at the expense of more fluent forms of musicianship.
Also I totally agree - the embellishments work well in certain nocturnes (not so the later ones!), because it’s really built into the form (
being bel canto arias, essentially). Embellishing the 4th ballade like this would be borderline sinful 😆
@@benlawdy Thank you for your response. I do appreciate this type of videos where you delve deeper on Chopin. Listening to the Golden of the Piano guys like Cortot, de Pachmann, or Paderewsky is a really good lesson, just like you said. Their sense of rubato are beautiful. Some would say they were "artists" rather than just a "performer". Koczalski certainly has that, and he had a direct pedigree to the master himself.
People get so mad about others disrupting the "Sanctity of the music", but I would say music is itself, in all forms, already sacred. Changes or embellishments is natural.
I agree with you Ben, and it's refreshing to see this in a Polish National edition by Ekiers. Personally I cannot see a jury not being charmed by any student who gave such a performance.
Amazing video, I love this topic.
I’m no great pianist, but it’s so fun to take a Chopin piece and use it as a basis for improvising something unrecognisable from the original. I found you can sometimes do this with a Beethoven piece. I think they improvised when performing their own works also - we can only see the published versions, but I doubt they were ever performed as written in those days. :)
where was Koczalski, I never heard of him until now ! great upload.
Wow, this fills the 2set sized hole in my heart
Thankyou. Inforative. Helped me learn.
I have Chopin's notations from another source, and when I play this nocturne, I always add them in. Doing so taught me something -- this is probably just one version of additions. Chopin was known to improvise ornamentation like this on several of his pieces (but certainly not all). Undoubtedly he would have enjoyed hearing another pianist add their own thoughts to any piece. And so I have added a few of my own ornaments, and changed some of Chopin's around.
By doing so, they come out much more effortlessly, partly because they my own fit my hand very well. But it's because it's an ornament that I like and feels right. In this way, Chopin was playing like jazz pianists today who make their own versions of popular songs.
But yes, I have no doubt people who chide me by saying "that's not Chopin!"
Just what I have explained to people over many years. The super talented pianist/composers varied their works, Rachmaninoff another example. This is especially important for amateurs like me - do not get hung up on rigid detail, just make beautiful music.
THIS. Go hear Rachmaninoff's own recording of his Serenade (Op.3, No. 5), SO much more than what's written in the score (particularly toward the end).
@@th1rtyf0ur- Yes, I know this well. I learned most from Rachmaninoff on this issue over the years. I always keep in mind Oscar Peterson’s comment - It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that swing. This is just what Raoul Koczalski has in this performance, though maybe better to say ‘flow’ than ‘swing’. It’s something you feel with Arthur Rubinstein’s playing.
I’ve played these particular variations for years.
Surely depends on rules of the competition: if they want Urtext that's what you had better play. If you can pick and choose pieces then feel free to do so!
Chopin playing competition sounds like the most asian thing ever
A very inspiring performance 👌👌👌
I love this!