As usual, great job on your observations. As many of my buddies want to rush into buying this bike, I think it may be wise to sit back and see what manufacturers take to this motor. It does have the potential to fit two styles like you mention, a powerful super light trail bike, OR a burly enduro bike in the 50lb category, but with tons of power. My conclusion it to stay with the Levo Gen 3 for now, and await what Gen 4 will bring. There is no doubt that Specialized was delayed by this bike. Imagine a Levo SL with this motor., OMG! But in lies the issue with this changing tech, no much change for 8-10k bikes. This does have the potential to wipe many brands off the map. Oh my.
You have a great bike and rumor has it Specialized has something in the works that is really going to upend the industry. I'm a Trek guy myself but considering all brands.
@@EMTBReview Where is the dealer and support then? Not even available in North America. To me the weak points of this bike are unproven dealer network and warranty service, and unproven frame. It's all fine and well "licensing" the motor or what have you, but actually the industry seems to be shifting away with that as vertical integration as key. Example how much longer you think Shimano will be in the game with no bike on offer?
@@EMTBReview Do you have a plan to test the new EP801? I saw some data somewhere EP801 with the latest FW is actually faster than Bosch with the same amount of rider input. Or it takes less rider input to maintain the same speed...I don't remember all the details....
Thanks for this Francis. Question, what law are you referring to when you mention the 250W limit? I see Federal CFR title 16, chapter 2.C,1512 states 750W maximum, and EU Union laws stating 250W average, but nothing like that in US.
I think you are right. Class 1, 2, 3 are all limited to 750watts, not 250watts. 250 watts is a European limit. That being said, DJI Avinox, Bosch, Brose, Shimano are all 250 watt motors by definition and virtue that they all pass European 250 watt limit.
As far as I know there is a new law in California saying max power 750 so the word "nominell" is not used therfore Amflow will most lightly be banned in California.
@@EMTBReview Perhaps difficult to interpret the rules of Senatet Bill no. 1271 chapter 79, and many people from California I have spoken to are now convinced that Amflow will become illegal in California. Maybe you could check this out so it is 100% clarified?
Ahh, I wonder if they'll set up the dealer and support infrastructure in New Zealand. As fas additional wear on the drivetrain, yes definitely it will occur. It essential to have the latest ebike optimized drivetrain with steel rings and sturdy chain. And keep that chain lubed with a robust, wet lube. And be very careful about shifting under power. Tire wear, especially on the rear is likely as well. Use robust knobs and ebike optimized tires.
@@rawmancemtb Actually that’s exactly what they did with the gen 3 motor. Mid life update added torque. Fazua have done this as well. Usually the motors can run higher than set by firmware. I think it’s highly likely another 5-10nM of torque is unlocked.
I guess I'm just so spoiled with my D limited levo. I really enjoy using my motor in Turbo when I'm going 25 miles an hour. When it's safe of course. I would buy this in a heartbeat if I could de-limit the motor.
I wonder if DJI picked a bolt pattern that might be more easily compatible with certain brands. Obviously not direct plug and play, but wonder if that had some influence on their design.
@@andrewwood4013 I use a 2000w Bluetti system to charge my eMTB in my van, which is charged with solar. I have charged exclusively this way for over a year. Great for a lunchtime top up as well.
Very nice review. It's expected this thing will be on top given the power it has. Would you be doing a range test to see the efficiency of the system? And compare it with other bikes?
as much as i like emtbs and what dji is doing the MTB industry pricing for bikes is still too high. My next bike will probably be a stark varg ex. dirt bike performance without the maintenance and road legal.
I don't understand the concern about "legal" 250w output. Has... ANYONE...EVER... even been asked whether or not their bike exceeds the legal power? How could power even be tested in the field & by who & with what equipment? Have any (Federal, state or local) gov't agencies even written any testing protocols...have any personnel been trained? Europeans tend to obey authority unquestioningly, no matter how foolish or misplaced the rules may be and these nonsensical restrictions have taken root here. Whatever conflicts exist between trail users have nothing to do with whether an ebike has 250w or 2500w; arbitrary power limitations won't change anything.
It will never happen with testing on the trailhead. What's likely to happen is some verification that a 'Class 1' factory sticker exists on the emtb. Class 1 certification may evolve and change in the future.
Let shelf that legality issues. We don’t need the nanny government telling us what we can and can’t do. It’s a bicycle for crying put loud. No baby animals were harmed!
@@bfranco1519I agree with this. And any concerns about ebike or "power" on the trails is mostly relegated to online punks. That, and Californians are like Europeans they follow the law to a T and love daddy government getting involved with everything.
Like most stuff, as long as you’re not being a dick, most people don’t care and don’t know. Now if you are a dick and cause an injury or do something to cause potential harm to others then there are laws that could be used against you for prosecution. So, first rule of ebiking. Don’t be a dick.
I've ridden eMTBs for well over 30,000 kms now. I can count the times I have used 'TURBO' on my left hand I guess it depends where you ride and how much of a --------------------------- you really are... That said, I've owned DJI products (early years) bee interested to see if it can survive this old man's regular riding regime...
If you want to see that how strong is this motor, you need to see this video: ua-cam.com/video/T1C-78AhA1I/v-deo.html . I really hope, that Bosch will give us update for the "Gen5" because it gives only 306 watts of power when i give 100 watts. I want like 450-500 watts. Who cares for battery consumption, if you want to save battery you will use weaker mode, or get another battery, or a fast charger. It's not about that i want to go uphill really fast, but i want to save my leg energy for a 4-5 hours up and downhill one day riding. I wish for this DJI system in a burly enduro bike.
I would buy this bike but I would want a range extender on it. This is so light it could run a 450Wh range extender. So going to wait for someone to come out with those. Range is really the only downside of this. Doing range tests?
These motor manufacturers like Shimano and Bosch aren't exactly bleeding edge risk takers. Drones are a massive business that apply to consumer and commercial applications. They need the state of the art because high power and low weight, long range are the key to success in this product category. It is stll shocking that DJI nailed it on their first attempt at a bike motor.
@@EMTBReviewI think it is more they sandbagged the motor development. No one else was coming up with anything innovative so why should they. Now with ZF and DJI throwing down they have to up their game significantly. They got left in the dust and need to do something revolutionary. We will see if they can…
That thing is illegal California with the new e bike law. The old law had the limit of 750w continuous power, the new law limits power to 750 watt........the dji can hit 800 watts in boost.
As I mentioned in the last part of the video, this is a Class 1 ebike because it has a rated nominal power of 250 watts. Nominal wattage (where the motor temp does not go up) is how all ebikes are rated. A bit of a loophole but that's the state of industry.
No doubt. The other factors are weight, battery size motor noise, motor rattle, durability, display, charging, phone app and programmability, and most important is responsiveness/smoothness of motor. In all these areas, the DJI motor system seems to score A or A+.
@@EMTBReview How does it compare to Bosch gen4 and Race in responsiveness? Bosch really had it right with their instant power when touching the pedal. This "natural" feel only means a lazy response in the first cam pull thus making many bikes bad for technical riding. For technical trails the Bosch gen4 and Race are the only options.
@@rawmancemtb it is more responsive than the Bosch Gen4 Race or Bosch Gen 5. It is shocking. Quick but not too strong or aggressive unless you tune it that way. Makes the bike feel responsive and light. The magnet alone is a marvel. Instead of 1 data point during one wheel revolution, it has 48. See the magnet ring mounted on the brake rotor. And that's what helps in the responsiveness.
@@EMTBReview I mean the speed at which you get high assist from the motor when you touch the pedal. It sounds like you are referring to the overall response speed to changing input. Gen5 is supposed to be natural feel meaning it will not give you full assist when touching the pedal like Gen4.
Dude. You are my new favorite reviewer.
Rrrrrright? I'm starting to be able to watch myself too. lol, true story
The testing i've been waiting for! Thanks for doing all the leg work.
Glad I could help!
Thank you this is real life testing to give you an idea how the motors perform.
That’s my goal for sure
Can't wait for them to be avaliable in the US, just notice you did the test in the bay area! i usually ride that trial with my levo sl
Yes, I am super happy to be able to ride the local trails with the Amflow, the Bay Area is such a great riding region. Loop
Impressive. Looking forward to seeing the upgrades done, thx for the review.
Yeah, I'm very encouraged so far. Put, coil front and coil rear and this bike is supple and buttery! Need a longer dropper for sure.
@@EMTBReviewFox coil is listed as not compatible. RS or Ohlins
Killer video! Thanks
Appreciate the feedback!
Rattle is from cables. As soon as I removed the dropper cable (AXS seat post) any rattle stopped. Bike is quieter than my Gen 3 Levo by some margin.
That makes sense. Thank you for the heads-up on the cable rattle!
As usual, great job on your observations. As many of my buddies want to rush into buying this bike, I think it may be wise to sit back and see what manufacturers take to this motor. It does have the potential to fit two styles like you mention, a powerful super light trail bike, OR a burly enduro bike in the 50lb category, but with tons of power. My conclusion it to stay with the Levo Gen 3 for now, and await what Gen 4 will bring. There is no doubt that Specialized was delayed by this bike. Imagine a Levo SL with this motor., OMG! But in lies the issue with this changing tech, no much change for 8-10k bikes. This does have the potential to wipe many brands off the map. Oh my.
You have a great bike and rumor has it Specialized has something in the works that is really going to upend the industry. I'm a Trek guy myself but considering all brands.
As long as their (Specialized's) motor is competitive, they'll do well. Their bikes are way ahead and their dealer and support network is massive.
@@EMTBReview Where is the dealer and support then? Not even available in North America. To me the weak points of this bike are unproven dealer network and warranty service, and unproven frame.
It's all fine and well "licensing" the motor or what have you, but actually the industry seems to be shifting away with that as vertical integration as key. Example how much longer you think Shimano will be in the game with no bike on offer?
@@sd5458I think he meant Specialized, not DJI.
@@sd5458 i meant Specialized
That stem tho 😱 otherwise thanks for the great vid as always! 🤘
Yeah, that stem has got to go!!!
Looking forward on muddy rainy trail like here in UK.
Excellent review THX Francis!
Glad you liked it!
Looks pretty sick FC
Soooo sick
When you mention Shimano EP8 motor data is it from older gen EP8 motor or EP801 with the latest FW update?
This is an older EP8. I tested in a Canyon CF8 and Fezzari Timp. Maybe 2 years old
@@EMTBReview Do you have a plan to test the new EP801? I saw some data somewhere EP801 with the latest FW is actually faster than Bosch with the same amount of rider input. Or it takes less rider input to maintain the same speed...I don't remember all the details....
Great review keep em coming 🤘🏽
You're welcome, thanks for watching.
Love the video reviews 👌 ❤️
Thank you very much!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for this Francis. Question, what law are you referring to when you mention the 250W limit? I see Federal CFR title 16, chapter 2.C,1512 states 750W maximum, and EU Union laws stating 250W average, but nothing like that in US.
I think you are right. Class 1, 2, 3 are all limited to 750watts, not 250watts. 250 watts is a European limit.
That being said, DJI Avinox, Bosch, Brose, Shimano are all 250 watt motors by definition and virtue that they all pass European 250 watt limit.
Nice Review!
Not my worst work.
As far as I know there is a new law in California saying max power 750 so the word "nominell" is not used therfore Amflow will most lightly be banned in California.
By standard rating and definition, this is a 250 watt bike. That’s how it is legal in Europe which has a strict 250watt max
@@EMTBReview Perhaps difficult to interpret the rules of Senatet Bill no. 1271 chapter 79, and many people from California I have spoken to are now convinced that Amflow will become illegal in California.
Maybe you could check this out so it is 100% clarified?
Would love to be able to buy one .. not available in NZ as far as I can understand.
Wonder about the additional wear on the drivetrain / tyres ..
Ahh, I wonder if they'll set up the dealer and support infrastructure in New Zealand.
As fas additional wear on the drivetrain, yes definitely it will occur. It essential to have the latest ebike optimized drivetrain with steel rings and sturdy chain. And keep that chain lubed with a robust, wet lube.
And be very careful about shifting under power.
Tire wear, especially on the rear is likely as well. Use robust knobs and ebike optimized tires.
I'm wondering if Bosche will come up with an update to make all CX5 motors output more torque? New race CX5?
I don’t see how they can more torque without adding more, better, stronger magnets and coils
That is absolute copium. A software update isn't going to make the motor more powerful. They would have done it when the motor released not now.
@@rawmancemtb Actually that’s exactly what they did with the gen 3 motor. Mid life update added torque. Fazua have done this as well. Usually the motors can run higher than set by firmware. I think it’s highly likely another 5-10nM of torque is unlocked.
I guess I'm just so spoiled with my D limited levo. I really enjoy using my motor in Turbo when I'm going 25 miles an hour. When it's safe of course. I would buy this in a heartbeat if I could de-limit the motor.
This will be hard to delimit imho
I wonder if DJI picked a bolt pattern that might be more easily compatible with certain brands. Obviously not direct plug and play, but wonder if that had some influence on their design.
One manufacturer told me it was an easy fit.
What your experience using batteries to charge your emtb? I spend a lot of time off the grid and would like a system to keep my bike charged. thanks.
@@andrewwood4013 I use a 2000w Bluetti system to charge my eMTB in my van, which is charged with solar. I have charged exclusively this way for over a year. Great for a lunchtime top up as well.
Need a battery power station that is at least 1000wh in capacity.
@@gordoncahill1170 Thanks for the help
@ Thanks. Love your content.
Very nice review. It's expected this thing will be on top given the power it has. Would you be doing a range test to see the efficiency of the system? And compare it with other bikes?
Yes, and it's not just the power. Pretty much every aspect of the motor/battery system. They are on top.
Waiting dji to hit US market
Good to hear. It will be in high demand, short supply for a long while, I fear.
I understand it innovative and has mostly high end components but that price😢 gonna be well above the average riders budget and a target for numpties.
This is going to probably be the final piece of content I watch on this bike. I know what I need to know. Still don't like the paint jobs either.
You're/We're not ready :)
How many drivetrains will this motor go through in a year
Need religious chain cleaning and lubing routine. Don’t shift under load either
What park and trail system is this in NorCal?
Stevens Creek County Park by the reservoir.
@@EMTBReview thank you so much. Another great video review and look forward to all new things coming out. Heard new Levo is coming soon
You didn't see the map at 4:17 ?
@@vashon100saw the map, but doesn’t show the name of the park
@@BryantKHill There's enough info to pull it up on Google and see the park name and even trail name. And I'm in WA.
Fox state that their coil shock isn’t compatible with the Amflow as the shaft will bend.
Well check it out. We are very light folks though :)
as much as i like emtbs and what dji is doing the MTB industry pricing for bikes is still too high. My next bike will probably be a stark varg ex. dirt bike performance without the maintenance and road legal.
True. This pricing structure will take a while to unravel
I don't understand the concern about "legal" 250w output. Has... ANYONE...EVER... even been asked whether or not their bike exceeds the legal power? How could power even be tested in the field & by who & with what equipment?
Have any (Federal, state or local) gov't agencies even written any testing protocols...have any personnel been trained? Europeans tend to obey authority unquestioningly, no matter how foolish or misplaced the rules may be and these nonsensical restrictions have taken root here. Whatever conflicts exist between trail users have nothing to do with whether an ebike has 250w or 2500w; arbitrary power limitations won't change anything.
It will never happen with testing on the trailhead. What's likely to happen is some verification that a 'Class 1' factory sticker exists on the emtb.
Class 1 certification may evolve and change in the future.
Let shelf that legality issues. We don’t need the nanny government telling us what we can and can’t do. It’s a bicycle for crying put loud. No baby animals were harmed!
@@bfranco1519I agree with this. And any concerns about ebike or "power" on the trails is mostly relegated to online punks. That, and Californians are like Europeans they follow the law to a T and love daddy government getting involved with everything.
Probably as long as jerks aren't wheelieing in and out of cars and doing 40mph on the sidewalk, they'd probably not be bothered.
Like most stuff, as long as you’re not being a dick, most people don’t care and don’t know. Now if you are a dick and cause an injury or do something to cause potential harm to others then there are laws that could be used against you for prosecution. So, first rule of ebiking. Don’t be a dick.
I've ridden eMTBs for well over 30,000 kms now. I can count the times I have used 'TURBO' on my left hand
I guess it depends where you ride and how much of a --------------------------- you really are...
That said, I've owned DJI products (early years) bee interested to see if it can survive this old man's regular riding regime...
If you don’t use Turbo currently, the DJI motor is not ideal.
You don't use turbo? Wow you're so special!
If you want to see that how strong is this motor, you need to see this video: ua-cam.com/video/T1C-78AhA1I/v-deo.html . I really hope, that Bosch will give us update for the "Gen5" because it gives only 306 watts of power when i give 100 watts. I want like 450-500 watts. Who cares for battery consumption, if you want to save battery you will use weaker mode, or get another battery, or a fast charger. It's not about that i want to go uphill really fast, but i want to save my leg energy for a 4-5 hours up and downhill one day riding. I wish for this DJI system in a burly enduro bike.
I would buy this bike but I would want a range extender on it. This is so light it could run a 450Wh range extender. So going to wait for someone to come out with those. Range is really the only downside of this. Doing range tests?
That is really its biggest missing piece now
When a drone company makes a better motor than the well established bike industry is a sad statement about the “major players” in the sport…
These motor manufacturers like Shimano and Bosch aren't exactly bleeding edge risk takers.
Drones are a massive business that apply to consumer and commercial applications. They need the state of the art because high power and low weight, long range are the key to success in this product category.
It is stll shocking that DJI nailed it on their first attempt at a bike motor.
@@EMTBReviewI think it is more they sandbagged the motor development. No one else was coming up with anything innovative so why should they.
Now with ZF and DJI throwing down they have to up their game significantly. They got left in the dust and need to do something revolutionary. We will see if they can…
Where are you riding ?
Too much power? Going up hill at 15mph? Not a good look.
It's a lot of power for a busy trail. Must use responsibly. It is now faster than a Cross Country World Cup racer going uphill.
Be fun when this motor gets to other bikes. Till then, pass.
Unno and Forbidden have leaked their upcoming bikes. Many, many brands are working on their version
@@EMTBReview I'm holding out for the Forbidden release
That thing is illegal California with the new e bike law. The old law had the limit of 750w continuous power, the new law limits power to 750 watt........the dji can hit 800 watts in boost.
As I mentioned in the last part of the video, this is a Class 1 ebike because it has a rated nominal power of 250 watts. Nominal wattage (where the motor temp does not go up) is how all ebikes are rated. A bit of a loophole but that's the state of industry.
Speed and torque aren’t everything.
No doubt. The other factors are weight, battery size motor noise, motor rattle, durability, display, charging, phone app and programmability, and most important is responsiveness/smoothness of motor.
In all these areas, the DJI motor system seems to score A or A+.
@@EMTBReview How does it compare to Bosch gen4 and Race in responsiveness? Bosch really had it right with their instant power when touching the pedal. This "natural" feel only means a lazy response in the first cam pull thus making many bikes bad for technical riding. For technical trails the Bosch gen4 and Race are the only options.
@@michaelmann3636 Yes they are🙂
@@rawmancemtb it is more responsive than the Bosch Gen4 Race or Bosch Gen 5. It is shocking. Quick but not too strong or aggressive unless you tune it that way. Makes the bike feel responsive and light.
The magnet alone is a marvel. Instead of 1 data point during one wheel revolution, it has 48. See the magnet ring mounted on the brake rotor. And that's what helps in the responsiveness.
@@EMTBReview I mean the speed at which you get high assist from the motor when you touch the pedal. It sounds like you are referring to the overall response speed to changing input. Gen5 is supposed to be natural feel meaning it will not give you full assist when touching the pedal like Gen4.