I’m glad to see someone view Tao with some empathy. Even though his behavior seems over the top at times, like you said, he’s an overprotective and impulsive guy - not to mention the fact he associates Nick with Harry and Harry with the people who bullied Charlie last year. It’s totally understandable, even if not entirely justifiable.
Indeed, I was the Tao in my friend group in school - loud, headstrong, self righteous. I always thought I was doing the right thing but had a really hard time just stopping and listening to my friends. I totally feel for the guy.
“everyone shut up and make snow angels.” lmfao, same. I forgot how angsty this episode was since i’d watched the last four episodes in one sitting so I got the resolution so quickly the angst of episode 7 didn’t settle properly.
The heartbreaking aspect for me is how Charlie’s low self esteem/trauma/depression (whatever it might be) is preventing him from trusting Nick. Nick is telling Charlie that he is more important than the lads, but Charlie can’t help but assume that Nick is saying that out of pity/obligation, and that it’s not really what Nick wants deep down. The ironic thing is that it takes away Nick’s agency in Charlie’s pov, but that’s the paradoxical self-centredness inherent in low self esteem.
To be fair, Nick does say in episode 3 that he doesn’t like the rugby lads and he would rather hang out with Charlie but then he keeps letting Harry “patch things up” and seems to keep spending time with them. It’s a complex problem for Nick certainly, and of course there’s different layers of pressure. They should have just seen a different movie after they found out Ben and Harry were there, but of course that would raise too many questions before Nick is comfortable coming out. What you’re saying is completely true and really sad. But I can at least partially see why Charlie might be confused, Nick is sort of saying one thing and acting in a different way. While at the same time his non-verbal communication is very clear in terms of how he feels, he’s just having difficulty catching his brain up and also his social expression to that. Charlie is really strong-willed and patient and I think he’ll end up being a wonderfully empathetic and caring person as he grows and continues to receive support from Nick, and in my experience unfortunately that sometimes comes at the cost of being susceptible to these low self-esteem issues when you eventually wind up emotionally drained or in heightened situations such as what we see here, because they are opposite expressions of a core concept. (Healthy outward empathy enabled by a strong foundation of self esteem vs. limited capacity for outward empathy and trust due to self esteem being low)
@@dreamer5377 Yeah you bring up a good point: Nick was inconsistent in his messaging, and though Nick had good reasons for it (social pressures, half-hearted attempts at repair), Charlie was likely to interpret it in the worst way. That’s what happens, we get selective with the evidence we seek out, and look for things that confirm our insecurities or negative assumptions. As you point out, there’s heaps more evidence on the side of Nick genuinely liking Charlie, but that gets blocked out in low moments. I have hope for Charlie though! Spoiler for next episode: I like that Charlie was already in a more trusting place before Nick pulled him into the corridor. Nick was prepared with his speech, but you could see that Charlie was already convinced. Obviously the encouragement from Mr. Ajayi and reconciling with Tao helped, but most of that shift came from within, and I think it crystallized when he confronted Ben and took his power back. Ben directly verbalized a lot of what Charlie was thinking about himself, and rejecting those messages on his own is important. I think it sends a better message that Charlie did it that way rather than having Nick convince him with a heartfelt speech, as lovely as it was. I think that will be important for what happens next… which I will not spoil, no worries Liam!
@@Gaydunaway yep I agree, I think there’s some really well done contrasts and similarities between quite a few characters that illuminates their journeys in parallels. Nick and Tara both teach each other and learn from each other, Darcy and Charlie have a similar base and still handle their self doubt in different ways and like you said, Ben is sort of the verbalized physical form of Charlie’s internal self talk. Ben also shows how differently Nick acts when the situations may look similar to someone on the outside (like how Tao sees Nick). It is so great that Charlie was finally able to tell Ben everything he did, and yeah the art teacher was a huge source of wisdom and guidance for Charlie as well. I think oftentimes there’s this trope of “love yourself before you love anyone else” as if everyone has to do all the work themselves before reaching out, but this show really shows that that’s only a half truth and it is quite possible and often ideal to learn to love yourself through the support of those around you, even through a blossoming romance, such as how much Nick has bolstered Charlie to be able to finally make the push to defeat his negative self-image. I agree that it was really wonderful to see Charlie move forward on his own terms, and then finally be able to open his trust up to Nick and believe what he’s saying. He can finally see that when Nick is fighting his old friend group it’s because he really is moving on from them instead of thinking he’s only doing it to appease Charlie, and I loved that the scene wasn’t a huge declaration in front of everyone, and Nick has also learned so much from Charlie and his friend group that he’s been able to process his own stuff as well, it brings me a lot of joy to see everyone supporting each other in different ways, learning together, and creating healthy relationships out of that. :)
That look Nick’s mum gives him after she says “he’s a special friend isn’t he” like she knows and wants to let him know it’s ok. I love Olivia Colman so much
You mentioned Nick controlling his language - they definitely cleaned it up for Netflix. Nick definitely has a much more colorful vocabulary in the comics.
21:30 "I'm 25, I don't have shit figured out yet." Bro, I'm 35 and yet still discovering myself. I don't think I'm "adult", if there's actually a standard of being an adult.
Your right, 8m 37 and I have never felt like a grown up I still do many of the things I enjoyed as a kid and I felt bad about it for a while, but I have come to realise that the idea that we have to live up to some kind of proper adult standard is just something we tell ourselves when we are younger as a way to cope with growing up. Just because we get older doesnt mean we have to give up the things we enjoy and change our whole personality. I sometimes wonder if my parents felt as confused, scared and unsure of themselves when they were my age, as it must of been worse for them as at least I am unattached and without children and I cant imagine having to deal with the stress of bringing up a child and having to take care of it.
Liked and shared. I am so glad you've been reacting to this show as that gave me the opportunity to discover your channel. Great stuff - thank you much.
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. - Desmond Tutu 1931 I think it's a huge accomplishment that this show calls out that type of standby behavior. A lot of people can claim to be allies but real allies are the ones who call out toxic behavior. Especially the type of behavior that seems small and not overt. Being the person who calls out/call attention to the small comments and behaviors are the real advocates. Calling out these comments/behaviors are the root of the real discussions. I love this damn show+
I will say that while I cannot condone Ben's reprehensible behaviour towards Charlie, I do feel for him a bit as I can relate somewhat with his situation. As a gay man who was unable to come out or even say the word gay until I was in my early 20s I definitely have struggled with a fair bit of internalised homophobia over the years and I do feel that Ben is hurting himself just as much as he is hurting Charlie. I'm hoping there might be some kind of future redemption for him, although for that to happen he needs to tell Charlie just how sorry he is. If he continues to get worse though and escalates things even more I will be pretty mad and my sympathy will start to run dry.
Tao was… not my favorite. “Obviously he cares more about Nick’s feelings than mine.” Well yeah Nick’s coming out is more important than your possessive friendship Tao. It seems odd that after a season of “defending”Charlie from homophobia he would totally fail to grasp why Nick and Charlie would want some discretion in their relationship.
So there is reasons behind the overly protective thing that were slightly hinted at in this episode, but was pretty blatant in the comic. Hopefully next season will dive into it 🙏
@@blackeveryseason yeah I think people are ignoring the little lines thru the season. Clearly charlie was like almost suicidal and isolated himself. Self guess never read the material. But seemed that way by those close to him words
But Tao doesn't know what Nick is going through. All he knows at that point is that Charlie and Nick are dating and told their entire friend group, even Tara and Darcy who Charlie had only met a couple of months ago, but didn't tell him. Tao doesn't know everything in their relationship
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I’m glad to see someone view Tao with some empathy. Even though his behavior seems over the top at times, like you said, he’s an overprotective and impulsive guy - not to mention the fact he associates Nick with Harry and Harry with the people who bullied Charlie last year. It’s totally understandable, even if not entirely justifiable.
Indeed, I was the Tao in my friend group in school - loud, headstrong, self righteous. I always thought I was doing the right thing but had a really hard time just stopping and listening to my friends. I totally feel for the guy.
“everyone shut up and make snow angels.” lmfao, same. I forgot how angsty this episode was since i’d watched the last four episodes in one sitting so I got the resolution so quickly the angst of episode 7 didn’t settle properly.
The heartbreaking aspect for me is how Charlie’s low self esteem/trauma/depression (whatever it might be) is preventing him from trusting Nick. Nick is telling Charlie that he is more important than the lads, but Charlie can’t help but assume that Nick is saying that out of pity/obligation, and that it’s not really what Nick wants deep down. The ironic thing is that it takes away Nick’s agency in Charlie’s pov, but that’s the paradoxical self-centredness inherent in low self esteem.
To be fair, Nick does say in episode 3 that he doesn’t like the rugby lads and he would rather hang out with Charlie but then he keeps letting Harry “patch things up” and seems to keep spending time with them. It’s a complex problem for Nick certainly, and of course there’s different layers of pressure. They should have just seen a different movie after they found out Ben and Harry were there, but of course that would raise too many questions before Nick is comfortable coming out.
What you’re saying is completely true and really sad. But I can at least partially see why Charlie might be confused, Nick is sort of saying one thing and acting in a different way. While at the same time his non-verbal communication is very clear in terms of how he feels, he’s just having difficulty catching his brain up and also his social expression to that.
Charlie is really strong-willed and patient and I think he’ll end up being a wonderfully empathetic and caring person as he grows and continues to receive support from Nick, and in my experience unfortunately that sometimes comes at the cost of being susceptible to these low self-esteem issues when you eventually wind up emotionally drained or in heightened situations such as what we see here, because they are opposite expressions of a core concept. (Healthy outward empathy enabled by a strong foundation of self esteem vs. limited capacity for outward empathy and trust due to self esteem being low)
@@dreamer5377 Yeah you bring up a good point: Nick was inconsistent in his messaging, and though Nick had good reasons for it (social pressures, half-hearted attempts at repair), Charlie was likely to interpret it in the worst way. That’s what happens, we get selective with the evidence we seek out, and look for things that confirm our insecurities or negative assumptions. As you point out, there’s heaps more evidence on the side of Nick genuinely liking Charlie, but that gets blocked out in low moments. I have hope for Charlie though!
Spoiler for next episode:
I like that Charlie was already in a more trusting place before Nick pulled him into the corridor. Nick was prepared with his speech, but you could see that Charlie was already convinced. Obviously the encouragement from Mr. Ajayi and reconciling with Tao helped, but most of that shift came from within, and I think it crystallized when he confronted Ben and took his power back. Ben directly verbalized a lot of what Charlie was thinking about himself, and rejecting those messages on his own is important. I think it sends a better message that Charlie did it that way rather than having Nick convince him with a heartfelt speech, as lovely as it was. I think that will be important for what happens next… which I will not spoil, no worries Liam!
@@Gaydunaway yep I agree, I think there’s some really well done contrasts and similarities between quite a few characters that illuminates their journeys in parallels. Nick and Tara both teach each other and learn from each other, Darcy and Charlie have a similar base and still handle their self doubt in different ways and like you said, Ben is sort of the verbalized physical form of Charlie’s internal self talk. Ben also shows how differently Nick acts when the situations may look similar to someone on the outside (like how Tao sees Nick).
It is so great that Charlie was finally able to tell Ben everything he did, and yeah the art teacher was a huge source of wisdom and guidance for Charlie as well. I think oftentimes there’s this trope of “love yourself before you love anyone else” as if everyone has to do all the work themselves before reaching out, but this show really shows that that’s only a half truth and it is quite possible and often ideal to learn to love yourself through the support of those around you, even through a blossoming romance, such as how much Nick has bolstered Charlie to be able to finally make the push to defeat his negative self-image.
I agree that it was really wonderful to see Charlie move forward on his own terms, and then finally be able to open his trust up to Nick and believe what he’s saying. He can finally see that when Nick is fighting his old friend group it’s because he really is moving on from them instead of thinking he’s only doing it to appease Charlie, and I loved that the scene wasn’t a huge declaration in front of everyone, and Nick has also learned so much from Charlie and his friend group that he’s been able to process his own stuff as well, it brings me a lot of joy to see everyone supporting each other in different ways, learning together, and creating healthy relationships out of that. :)
That look Nick’s mum gives him after she says “he’s a special friend isn’t he” like she knows and wants to let him know it’s ok. I love Olivia Colman so much
Do YOU bring a girl with you, HARRY?!? Perfect
"Everyone just shut up and make snow angels"
Love that line 😂
Needs to be on a t-shirt.
You mentioned Nick controlling his language - they definitely cleaned it up for Netflix. Nick definitely has a much more colorful vocabulary in the comics.
Charlie's lack of self-esteem breaks my heart and I too would physically fight anyone who made him feel worthless.
21:30 "I'm 25, I don't have shit figured out yet."
Bro, I'm 35 and yet still discovering myself. I don't think I'm "adult", if there's actually a standard of being an adult.
Your right, 8m 37 and I have never felt like a grown up I still do many of the things I enjoyed as a kid and I felt bad about it for a while, but I have come to realise that the idea that we have to live up to some kind of proper adult standard is just something we tell ourselves when we are younger as a way to cope with growing up.
Just because we get older doesnt mean we have to give up the things we enjoy and change our whole personality.
I sometimes wonder if my parents felt as confused, scared and unsure of themselves when they were my age, as it must of been worse for them as at least I am unattached and without children and I cant imagine having to deal with the stress of bringing up a child and having to take care of it.
"Everyone just shut up and make snow angels". Did...did you just solve world peace? lol
"Well good, cause I just thought the fish, so..." That took me a second but I snorted very loudly once I realized what you thought "Char" meant.
Liked and shared.
I am so glad you've been reacting to this show as that gave me the opportunity to discover your channel.
Great stuff - thank you much.
I’m at work watching this and just… same about the snow angels 😂
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
- Desmond Tutu 1931
I think it's a huge accomplishment that this show calls out that type of standby behavior. A lot of people can claim to be allies but real allies are the ones who call out toxic behavior. Especially the type of behavior that seems small and not overt. Being the person who calls out/call attention to the small comments and behaviors are the real advocates. Calling out these comments/behaviors are the root of the real discussions. I love this damn show+
In season 2 I need a whole episode dedicated to watching everyone beat the shit out of Harry.
Literally the best way to start my morning!
"Everyone just shut up and make snow angels!" If only the whole world would take that advice!
Love this series and love your reaction.
I will say that while I cannot condone Ben's reprehensible behaviour towards Charlie, I do feel for him a bit as I can relate somewhat with his situation.
As a gay man who was unable to come out or even say the word gay until I was in my early 20s I definitely have struggled with a fair bit of internalised homophobia over the years and I do feel that Ben is hurting himself just as much as he is hurting Charlie.
I'm hoping there might be some kind of future redemption for him, although for that to happen he needs to tell Charlie just how sorry he is. If he continues to get worse though and escalates things even more I will be pretty mad and my sympathy will start to run dry.
I just want to know who is tailoring Nick's shirts? Everyone else has regular shirts! Not complaining, but a bit on the nose.
We love to see it!
I love this show
Everyone just shut up and make snow angels!!
You've got the Harry Potter scar on your chin. You're a wizard Liam. Random thought over lol
I condone violence under certain circumstances. Sometimes someone needs to get knocked down.
Did you just go 21 minutes without using the word "wholesome"?
That doesn't sound right
Tao was… not my favorite. “Obviously he cares more about Nick’s feelings than mine.” Well yeah Nick’s coming out is more important than your possessive friendship Tao. It seems odd that after a season of “defending”Charlie from homophobia he would totally fail to grasp why Nick and Charlie would want some discretion in their relationship.
So there is reasons behind the overly protective thing that were slightly hinted at in this episode, but was pretty blatant in the comic. Hopefully next season will dive into it 🙏
@@blackeveryseason yeah I think people are ignoring the little lines thru the season. Clearly charlie was like almost suicidal and isolated himself. Self guess never read the material. But seemed that way by those close to him words
But Tao doesn't know what Nick is going through. All he knows at that point is that Charlie and Nick are dating and told their entire friend group, even Tara and Darcy who Charlie had only met a couple of months ago, but didn't tell him. Tao doesn't know everything in their relationship