"Let me tell you something. If he's Mars, then abadangos pluto cuz THAT WAS COLD AS HELL" Mewtwo in smash 4 should be the prime example on how to go about buffing a character. And it absolutely angers the piss out of me that they put the tail hurt on back. Hey Nintendo. Being a high tiered character in a previous game doesn't mean you should gut the character to the freaking ground like that
Absolutely! Moreover, Mewtwo wasn't even a broken top tier character in Smash 4 like Bayo or Cloud for exemple. He was simply good, the best he could be. And now Nintendo continues to lower him down, preventing him for reaching high tier. They even incredibly nerfed his up Smash which has now a clanky horizontal hitbox and is laggy as hell.
This video and most people in general overstate the problem with his tail hurt box. A bigger reason why Mewtwo is less effective now is due to the nerf of his Nair follow ups, and yes, the new air dodge mechanics hurt him as well
Melee: Has amazing combo potential, amazing edge guarding, and a decent projectile. Unfortunately it's weight and tail hurtbox make Mewtwo worse but overall Mewtwo is a semi-decent character if you know how to properly play it. 4: Basically got the same treatment as Marth/Lucina. Started out as a bad character but overtime got some big buffs and became one of the top 10 best characters in the game. Unfortunately it became worse after Cloud and Bayo got released but Mewtwo was and still is a really good and viable character. Ultimate: Had amazing potential at first but then the tail hurtbox came back...Mewtwo was then widely considered a low tier/low mid tier character afterwards. Mewtwo has since then got some decent buffs from 3.0/8.0 updates and Mewtwo could potentially be on the climb of becoming an amazing character again. Biased opinion: I myself am a Mewtwo main and I have mained Mewtwo in every game it appears in (yes, Mewtwo was my main in Melee as well). I personally think people severely under rate Mewtwo in both Melee and Ultimate but I'll just be talking about Ultimate Mewtwo for now. Mewtwo has got amazing combos and it's really good at edge guarding as well, unfortunately the tail is a problem but I feel people who don't play Mewtwo severely over rate how bad the tail is. The tail isn't as bad as you think. The tail is currently not as bad as Melee or pre-buffed Ultimate Mewtwo in my honest opinion. The buff to his grab combos are really good, shadow ball is now a pretty good projectile (it was always a good projectile but now it's even better), all of Mewtwo's arieals are really good, confusion is a decent reflector and combo tool, Mewtwo's smash attacks are very powerful, its recovery is extremely good and is a useful movement option, and disable is actually not that bad of a move if you can properly land it. Mewtwo's weaknesses are its tail, lack of options to get out of the air, and lightweight. Mewtwo's strengths in my opinion are too great to be a low tier/low mid tier so I would go as far as to say that Mewtwo is a top mid tier character or a bottom high tier character (I personally lean more towards Mewtwo being a bottom high tier character). This is just my opinion tho so I'm obviously gonna get a lot of people to disagree with me but that's fine. We all play our own characters in this game, mine just so happens to be Mewtwo
I don't think his hurtbox should be changed, he's very balanced imo. I think he does need buffs to his up smash so it can scoop people right next to him and maybe give his forward smash a little more range to match the animation, and make his teleport harder to 2 frame. I I think the last buff to landing teleport was in the right direction. Also he has really good throws. Forward throw deals a lot of damage, down throw leads to disable tech chase and forward air. Back throw and up throw are kill throws.
VnoMercy he's not balanced, his tail hurtbox is an OBVIOUS issue but as a mewtwo main his biggest issue is neutral and apporaching. The tail buffs actually broke a lot of mewtwos combos, their constant buffing of shadowball is disheartening as it seems theyre trying to make him more reliant than he already is.
ANDY MIAMI Mewtwos neutral and advantage is very strong and optimized he’s a real threat for bait and punishing. Best jab, best up throw, best double jump, one of the best projectiles. His disadvantage is enormous but not because of his tail, it’s because he’s light and just big which isn’t a great combo. Look up Notbae on UA-cam, He’s a very skilled Mewtwo main that’s soaked 100s of hours into perfecting the character. Yeah i know what you mean about his tail buffs, his stronger back air sends opponents father which makes it harder to string them together. IMO he’s at least upper mid tier.
The tail isn't Mewtwo's only problem in Ultimate, it's his disadvantage in general... His busted airdodge was his only saving grace in S4, now he's stuck with absolutely 0 option to get out, his double jump is way too slow and won't get you out of any combo, combine that with no really quick move to use as a combo breaker & his huge hurtbox and it's just painful. His shield is also very easy to pressure as he doesn't have any good OOS option (shieldgrab isn't good anymore, his fastest options are Nair & Usmash but they whiff all the time and aren't even that fast) Getting out of the ledge is also a huge struggle, although he has some mixups they're gimmicks that are countered by the same options most of the time, and his ledge roll is atrocious because of the tail staying behind for a long time. A lot of Ultimate characters can abuse these flaws very well, and the game being more about mashing into your opponent's face instead of a slow/methodical neutral hurts Mewtwo a lot. On top of that, most of the moves that made him really good in s4 (fair, nair, dtilt) were nerfed, so even his combo game/advantage state, while still very good (especially with edgeguarding being more important in Ultimate) isn't what it once was.
Mewtwo's tail hurtbox is just the same weakness as Bowser's size, a weakness it could be compensated. Mewtwo is a glass cannon who is too glass and not enough cannon to put it in some way. I like to compare Mewtwo with Game & Watch, since the former is a low-mid tier glass cannon without defensive options, and the latter is an arguably top tier glass cannon with a busted defensive option.
@@N12015 Lol yeah for Bowser it's fine because he's one of the heaviest characters in the game and also has a very good OOS option, Mewtwo is the opposite (and having the tail makes it even worse than just being tall) he's supposed to compensate with his high mobility, combo game & kill power but it's just not enough. I still think he's a decent mid tier and could be top mid tier/bottom of high tier but still probably not viable as a solo main at high level
This is a much significant problem than his tail hurt box. people think that the reason he struggles the most is because of his hurt box but it’s the loss of his combo potential
@@SteelTiamat Don't forget the Nerf to his Down tilt, F-air, airdodge, Up-Smash (Well, the game physics made that move much worse but still counts) and how his combo and defensive game was so hindered in general. Kirby also has a small hurtbox btw, with intangible feets on some of his moves, and is still terrible.
Mewtwo is one of those characters with a great kit, but he has a single flaw that is abused to the MAX and that is THE TAIL!! He is automatically high tier if the tail hurtbox didn't exist
There is an easy fix for Mewtwo and I never understood why it doesn't get done: Keep the big hurt box on the tail, but remove it when he is doing tilts and aerials. There... No trades any more. Fixed.
@@AceDice Yes, but a more fair one. Giving him a sword like that means he is no longer outranged as much and he could now challenge a lot of things with his tail. His up tilt would become a great anti air and his back air an extremely good edgeguard tool.
@@lycanzone Of course. That's called a weakness, in this case he is prone to trade due to the lack of disjoint and mediocre frame data despite having good range. It's like people forgot that Mewtwo had the best airdodge in smash 4 or an insane combo potential due to N-air and D-tilt. But I guess Mewtwo is bad due to having a hurtbox in its tail, much like Squirtle is a terrible fighter or Charizard is great because his disjointed tail.
Yeah, removing the tail hitbox wouldn't makes sense with the "I grabbed his tail" situations, so heavy armor on the tail will make it more likely that running is more forgiving when spacing. Mewtwo has to run 2 extra feet because of how long his tail is.
I feel like the tail could also get some Heavy Armor, since it's clearly here to stay Maybe have it work against moves that deal 10% or less, then stop working at around 80%, so he can live a bit longer
As for the Tail Hurtbox: My first thought honestly, would be to give it invulnerability frames *when you attack.* Seeing as Mewtwo likes to quote "Whip it, whip it good". Balance? Keep the hurtbox *when idle or not attacking.* Either that or thinnen the hurt box itself so you have to be pretty much up in its grille to hit it. Leaving opponents vulnerable to baits into grabs or disable.
At least it's not as bad as the Mario analysis were they basically said "Mario in smash 4 was not great because their greatest users were terrible people" which is baffling.
Unpopular opinion: Yes the tail hurtbox is annoying, but I’ve honestly gotten used to it by now as the only times it’s ever really a problem for me anymore are when I’m either dashing away or using Utilt at the wrong time. All of Mewtwo’s other tail attacks work very well for me. Especially after 8.0.0. Mewtwo isn’t supposed to be a swordie, but rather a character who leads with Shadow Ball and condition your opponent to make a mistake. It’s a move that lacks any hurtbox and has a ton of versatility. You save the tail for when you find an opening for a combo
Honestly I am still a massive mewtwo fan, and this evolution is depressing. I always feel so sad when I see every other pokemon go over him in player base. Someday he will hopefully rise to his potential, but it wont happen if people never pick him up.
Pikachu weight in pokemon: 6kg. Weight in SmashU: 79 Squirtle weight in pokemon: 9kg. Weight in SSBU: 75 Greninja weight in pokemon: 40kg Weight in SSBU: 88. Okey, that is strange, but no matter Ivysaur weight in pokemon: 13kg Weight in SSBU: 96. What? Incineroar weight in pokemon: 83kg Weight in SSBU: 116 Alright, chonky boi, seems right he is tied with Charizard at 90kg for 6th heaviest in the game Mewtwo, the original endboss, arguably the best pokemon in the entire series history, weighs in at a MASSIVE 122kg. And where does SSBU rank his weight? 79 THE SAME AS FUCKING PIKACHU. #MakeMewtwoAHeavy
Heavy Mewtwo would be so scary. The only floaty heavies we've ever seen are D3 and Samus. D3 has just always been too big and slow, and Samus has been good in Melee and Ult but has multi hit issues. Heavy Mewtwo would get hit by everything and be absolutely combo food even worse then now, but he could also afford to trade so he would swing a lot more. If they upped his damage and hitstun in a couple key attacks to go with him being a heavy then he would get even more powerful combos and traps then he already has.
@@Saskaruto16 I agree. I just want him to feel scary. Like he did in the RBY or the first movie. Keep his speed, his floatiness, his projectile, and the hurtbox on his tail. Just make him a heavy, and get ready for the most unique character in the game
@@moralombudsman Well he's already one of the most unique characters in the game as is. I think if you made him a heavy it would definitely make him stronger. Idk if it would be broken but he would certainly give charactsrs with weaker kill power a lot of trouble because you can't really gimp him either.
Yeeah! Finally my main. :D Mewtwo is certainly the most frustrating character to play because he always gives you the feeling of playing a high tier which can't be high tier just because of this fricking tail hurtbox!!! The reason why many players just give up on him because he isn't rewarding despite having many good tools. He did receive a weight buff actually and he is now as heavy as Pikachu. lol
I'm glad you mentioned that most people don't understand just how bad M2's tail hurtbox is. So many people dismiss it as not a big issue when it really is. It affects everything about the character. So many people say he's underrated but he's got no results despite some very talented players attempting to play him.
i just picked him up as a main and yeah the tail hitbox being reduced would solve a lot of the characters problems IMO. hes fun has some cool moves and has some interesting combos. That damn tail though makes him really tough to handle with hes in disadvantage
As someone who plays a lot of mewtwo i feel like his tail hurtbox isn't that big of a problem, it's huge, but you always know its there and can manuveur around it. Having his grab fixed would be way more important to me, he already has pretty nice throws, but the grab hitbox is inside his body and barely reaches his elbow, it's a joke :/
yes making the tail hurtbox like s4 would def help a ton but i think making him a bit heavier and or help him teleport cancel more reliably would help more! escaping disadvantage state is more important than to not get hit in specific moments. Mew2 dmg output is insane, and when optimized, he's scary, i secondary him with my main Pika to cover pikas only obscure and bad mu like GnW or Ness, and characters like Pacman.
The problem with balancing Mewtwo is that the status of his tail hurtbox makes or breaks the character, leaving very little even ground. Give him a tail hurtbox? He gets knocked around like a bitch from the slightest clip from the smallest of attacks. Strip the tail hurtbox altogether? Mewtwo basically has a sword now, which makes no sense considering the tail is a part of his body and thus should be tangable. You COULD remove the tail hurtbox and have him not use his tail as an attack to compensate, but that would be poor character design since the tail is one of Mewtwo's defining characteristics and not having him use it as an attack would feel wrong. And you also COULD strip the tail hurtbox up to a certain point, then leave the rest, to try and have a nice balance, but I'm sure that would garner complaints from players about "hitbox dissonance" or what-have-you. Mewtwo's character design as a whole is so polarising that I find it difficult to imagine a perfect world where he was good, but balanced. He's either been top tier or low tier, and it all comes down to the tail.
There are plenty of characters that turn their body parts into disjoints. Terry's leg, Bowser's fist, and GnW's head are a few of many examples of body parts having invulnerability or intangibility during attacks. Even Charizard's tail is more disjointed than Mewtwo's, and you don't hear people complain about Charizard's bair. Mewtwoo's tail not having a hurtbox wouldn't "feel wrong" to me since it makes sense from a balancing standpoint
Give him his djc aerials in melee back and he would be insane. You know how absurd his djc fair would be in neutral in ultimate? That would compensate for the tail.
Mew Two's air game is still oppressive His tail hitbox got reduced a few patches ago Downtilt uptilt nuteral air Uptilt uptilt up air Down tilt shorthop shadowclaw
I felt like people overexaggerate the Tail as Mewtwo's weakness. Mewtwo's problem is basically the same as a heavy, mediocre frame data, big hurtbox (which includes that pesky tail) and bad movility with the lack of proper defensive options, but also absurdly light. Mewtwo in smash 4 had the best airdodge, got a smaller hurtbox and became one of the fastest on the cast, reason why it became top tier. In Ultimate he lost that airdodge and his hurtbox became a bit bigger (not as bad as Melee). Smash is not only about offense, but defense as well, and Mewtwo had a really bad one in melee and ultimate; that's the reason why the best characters in history tend to have the most broken defensive options (Quick Attack, Shine, Glide, Witch time, Rebeld Guard) PS: STOP CENSORING THE PAST!
I couldn't agree with this statement more. Though I think people seem to forget that Mewtwo also had his frame data and also consequently his (still strong) combo game nerfed in return for some K.O power.
@@kyeCalibur I mean, Fox has a tail hurtbox, as well as Diddy Kong in Brawl and Smash 4. Is it a weakness? Yeah, bigger hurtbox is always a bad thing. It'll ruin the character? No unless he has other glaring issues. Just look at Game & Watch, an arguably top tier with three big problems, frame data, weight and range, but still has strenghts so huge that the weakness don't hold it a lot in practice. PS: Charizard has a disjointed tail and is the worst of the pokemon the trainer has. Squirtle has a hitbox in his tail and is still the best pokemon of the trainer. Altough I was expecting a somewhat lackluster analysis from proguides (The competitive story of Pikachu was far worse than the FSG one for example, and the latter does not even analize smash regularly).
Many people have point this out already. But Mew2 is held by his major nair revant in ult. Upsmash lacks an scoop hitbox and the slow double. Altho double jump allows mew2 to chase his opponent to hell and back off stage. Personally i feel they will keep buffong mew2 as the dlc comes out. Lets be positive. Regardless i love playing as him Regardless.
My top 15 fighters in smash are bowser, captain falcon, dark Samus, pit, bayonetta, young link, ryu, sonic ,pacman, meta knight, banjo Kazooie, cloud, sepheroth, mewtwo, and sora
As Palu, I almost JV4'd my one friend who was playing as Mewtwo. Like two full stocks no damage taken, maybe a little chip on the third before getting hit, and I closed it out with a single-digits 3-stock. This was in Ultimate, by the way.
Smash really did do my boy dirty, I'm not even mad about the tail hurtbox. I just want to know why'd they removed the Shadowball damage while charging it. It's not like it's a copy of a certain move, if anything that move is a copy of Shadowball since Mewtwo did it first.
I'll happily admit Pro Gaming and Esports isn't for me: *However* with the respect I have for the dedication needed. I'll also happily admit if I had to go pro with a character. *ITS GOTTA BE MEWTWO!*
I’m a Mewtwo main and yeah, his tail is an issue but not his biggest issue. His biggest problem is that in terms of attack speed he’s really slow. I like him because, c’mon he’s Mewtwo, His dash/run/air speed I can deal with- but with a bait and punish style game play he lacks fast enough tools to deal with opponents.
Such a shame to have such a cool character so incredibly frustrating to play. No other character is even in the same ball park when comparing the combination of incredibly light and incredibly easy to hit. What makes it more frustrating is how simple the problem is to fix. It’s upsetting that Nintendo won’t be releasing any more patches and this glaring issue wasn’t addressed. It sucks because Ultimate overall is a fairly well balanced game (excluding some dlc characters) and they left this obvious bit of unbalance in even after years when they could’ve done something about.
if they got rid of that big hecking tail hurtbox, and make mewtwo more heavy, mewtwo would be better. i think mewtwo is around mid tier in ultimate, but could be high tier with a few buffs
What are these psychic shenanigans in melee you speak of? Where you can pull people thru the stage?! (Its been so long I forget his melee moveset) And why is MewtwoKing named MewtwoKing?! 😂😂😂 I love SSBU MEWTWO!!! I wanna know! I've a pocket Alien-Cat-Monster. 😎
tbh with just a few minor hitbox and frame data adjustments and a buff to his weight, he'd be really good but not broken in Smash Ultimate and still be sick as hell to watch and play. as is, it's really fuckin underwhelming and just looks wrong and off to see Mewtwo, the original OP Legendary Pokemon, die to an Ike dash attack at 70%, or to die to like, idk, Cloud nair or something.
I think it was only a few weeks ago I was bored with my mains and decided to pick up Mewtwo. Super fun character, flashy af, and great mobility.... but goddamn the mf TAIL..... It's sad because Mewtwo has everything I want in a character, but that damn tail. :(
Because of his airdodge in smash4, mewtwo could always escape. Because his airdodge in Smash Ultimate, he can never escape. Just teleport away..... People will wait and see where u land. Not even a 5050, just wait and punish.
"Let me tell you something. If he's Mars, then abadangos pluto cuz THAT WAS COLD AS HELL"
Mewtwo in smash 4 should be the prime example on how to go about buffing a character. And it absolutely angers the piss out of me that they put the tail hurt on back.
Hey Nintendo. Being a high tiered character in a previous game doesn't mean you should gut the character to the freaking ground like that
Straight facts
Absolutely! Moreover, Mewtwo wasn't even a broken top tier character in Smash 4 like Bayo or Cloud for exemple. He was simply good, the best he could be. And now Nintendo continues to lower him down, preventing him for reaching high tier. They even incredibly nerfed his up Smash which has now a clanky horizontal hitbox and is laggy as hell.
Jigglypuff in brawl and 4 was absolutely fucking horrendous I wanted to fucking game over myself
True, another more extreme example being bayo
This video and most people in general overstate the problem with his tail hurt box. A bigger reason why Mewtwo is less effective now is due to the nerf of his Nair follow ups, and yes, the new air dodge mechanics hurt him as well
Wasn’t expecting mewtwo
Same
Nobody expects Mewtwo. That's how he gets ya.
Melee: Has amazing combo potential, amazing edge guarding, and a decent projectile. Unfortunately it's weight and tail hurtbox make Mewtwo worse but overall Mewtwo is a semi-decent character if you know how to properly play it.
4: Basically got the same treatment as Marth/Lucina. Started out as a bad character but overtime got some big buffs and became one of the top 10 best characters in the game. Unfortunately it became worse after Cloud and Bayo got released but Mewtwo was and still is a really good and viable character.
Ultimate: Had amazing potential at first but then the tail hurtbox came back...Mewtwo was then widely considered a low tier/low mid tier character afterwards. Mewtwo has since then got some decent buffs from 3.0/8.0 updates and Mewtwo could potentially be on the climb of becoming an amazing character again.
Biased opinion: I myself am a Mewtwo main and I have mained Mewtwo in every game it appears in (yes, Mewtwo was my main in Melee as well). I personally think people severely under rate Mewtwo in both Melee and Ultimate but I'll just be talking about Ultimate Mewtwo for now. Mewtwo has got amazing combos and it's really good at edge guarding as well, unfortunately the tail is a problem but I feel people who don't play Mewtwo severely over rate how bad the tail is. The tail isn't as bad as you think. The tail is currently not as bad as Melee or pre-buffed Ultimate Mewtwo in my honest opinion. The buff to his grab combos are really good, shadow ball is now a pretty good projectile (it was always a good projectile but now it's even better), all of Mewtwo's arieals are really good, confusion is a decent reflector and combo tool, Mewtwo's smash attacks are very powerful, its recovery is extremely good and is a useful movement option, and disable is actually not that bad of a move if you can properly land it. Mewtwo's weaknesses are its tail, lack of options to get out of the air, and lightweight. Mewtwo's strengths in my opinion are too great to be a low tier/low mid tier so I would go as far as to say that Mewtwo is a top mid tier character or a bottom high tier character (I personally lean more towards Mewtwo being a bottom high tier character). This is just my opinion tho so I'm obviously gonna get a lot of people to disagree with me but that's fine. We all play our own characters in this game, mine just so happens to be Mewtwo
I don't think his hurtbox should be changed, he's very balanced imo. I think he does need buffs to his up smash so it can scoop people right next to him and maybe give his forward smash a little more range to match the animation, and make his teleport harder to 2 frame. I I think the last buff to landing teleport was in the right direction. Also he has really good throws. Forward throw deals a lot of damage, down throw leads to disable tech chase and forward air. Back throw and up throw are kill throws.
Mew2 main here. Couldn't agree more!!
VnoMercy he's not balanced, his tail hurtbox is an OBVIOUS issue but as a mewtwo main his biggest issue is neutral and apporaching. The tail buffs actually broke a lot of mewtwos combos, their constant buffing of shadowball is disheartening as it seems theyre trying to make him more reliant than he already is.
ANDY MIAMI Mewtwos neutral and advantage is very strong and optimized he’s a real threat for bait and punishing. Best jab, best up throw, best double jump, one of the best projectiles. His disadvantage is enormous but not because of his tail, it’s because he’s light and just big which isn’t a great combo. Look up Notbae on UA-cam, He’s a very skilled Mewtwo main that’s soaked 100s of hours into perfecting the character. Yeah i know what you mean about his tail buffs, his stronger back air sends opponents father which makes it harder to string them together. IMO he’s at least upper mid tier.
I'm a Mewtwo main too and I 100% agree. People over exaggerate how bad the tail hurtbox is
The tail isn't Mewtwo's only problem in Ultimate, it's his disadvantage in general... His busted airdodge was his only saving grace in S4, now he's stuck with absolutely 0 option to get out, his double jump is way too slow and won't get you out of any combo, combine that with no really quick move to use as a combo breaker & his huge hurtbox and it's just painful. His shield is also very easy to pressure as he doesn't have any good OOS option (shieldgrab isn't good anymore, his fastest options are Nair & Usmash but they whiff all the time and aren't even that fast) Getting out of the ledge is also a huge struggle, although he has some mixups they're gimmicks that are countered by the same options most of the time, and his ledge roll is atrocious because of the tail staying behind for a long time. A lot of Ultimate characters can abuse these flaws very well, and the game being more about mashing into your opponent's face instead of a slow/methodical neutral hurts Mewtwo a lot.
On top of that, most of the moves that made him really good in s4 (fair, nair, dtilt) were nerfed, so even his combo game/advantage state, while still very good (especially with edgeguarding being more important in Ultimate) isn't what it once was.
Mewtwo's tail hurtbox is just the same weakness as Bowser's size, a weakness it could be compensated. Mewtwo is a glass cannon who is too glass and not enough cannon to put it in some way. I like to compare Mewtwo with Game & Watch, since the former is a low-mid tier glass cannon without defensive options, and the latter is an arguably top tier glass cannon with a busted defensive option.
@@N12015 Lol yeah for Bowser it's fine because he's one of the heaviest characters in the game and also has a very good OOS option, Mewtwo is the opposite (and having the tail makes it even worse than just being tall) he's supposed to compensate with his high mobility, combo game & kill power but it's just not enough. I still think he's a decent mid tier and could be top mid tier/bottom of high tier but still probably not viable as a solo main at high level
@@N12015 Mr G&W is in contest with Hero for the worst-designed character in Ultimate
@@marsupialmole3926 no where near
At least Mewtwo’s matchup spread is decent
Mewtwo also had his Nair completely gutted. Used to have 9 hits and almost no endlag in Smash 4. Now it's 6 hits and doesn't combo into anything
This is a much significant problem than his tail hurt box. people think that the reason he struggles the most is because of his hurt box but it’s the loss of his combo potential
It also seems to completely miss scooping up shorter characters too. Making his nair bigger and combo better would make him so much better imo
@@SteelTiamat Don't forget the Nerf to his Down tilt, F-air, airdodge, Up-Smash (Well, the game physics made that move much worse but still counts) and how his combo and defensive game was so hindered in general. Kirby also has a small hurtbox btw, with intangible feets on some of his moves, and is still terrible.
Nair can still combo but its inconsistent and you need to grind alot if you wanna master this
Mewtwo is one of those characters with a great kit, but he has a single flaw that is abused to the MAX and that is THE TAIL!!
He is automatically high tier if the tail hurtbox didn't exist
There is an easy fix for Mewtwo and I never understood why it doesn't get done:
Keep the big hurt box on the tail, but remove it when he is doing tilts and aerials. There... No trades any more. Fixed.
Still during regular gameplay and he’s moving around I’ll be there
Still a problem
@@AceDice Yes, but a more fair one. Giving him a sword like that means he is no longer outranged as much and he could now challenge a lot of things with his tail. His up tilt would become a great anti air and his back air an extremely good edgeguard tool.
@@lycanzone Of course. That's called a weakness, in this case he is prone to trade due to the lack of disjoint and mediocre frame data despite having good range. It's like people forgot that Mewtwo had the best airdodge in smash 4 or an insane combo potential due to N-air and D-tilt. But I guess Mewtwo is bad due to having a hurtbox in its tail, much like Squirtle is a terrible fighter or Charizard is great because his disjointed tail.
Would simply shortening his tail hurtbox like in Smash 4 be a problem?
One of my favorite Smash characters and Pokemon. Love Mewtwo.
The only tail fix I can think of is giving the tail heavy armor, making the hurtbox smaller, or changing the animations for the tail.
I think the first
Yeah, removing the tail hitbox wouldn't makes sense with the "I grabbed his tail" situations, so heavy armor on the tail will make it more likely that running is more forgiving when spacing. Mewtwo has to run 2 extra feet because of how long his tail is.
I feel like the tail could also get some Heavy Armor, since it's clearly here to stay
Maybe have it work against moves that deal 10% or less, then stop working at around 80%, so he can live a bit longer
As for the Tail Hurtbox: My first thought honestly, would be to give it invulnerability frames *when you attack.* Seeing as Mewtwo likes to quote "Whip it, whip it good". Balance? Keep the hurtbox *when idle or not attacking.*
Either that or thinnen the hurt box itself so you have to be pretty much up in its grille to hit it. Leaving opponents vulnerable to baits into grabs or disable.
Instead of trying to fix Mewtwo's tail hitbox, Sakurai should just remove it entirely
If you're going to censor the smash 4 players for "you-know-what" you should also censor overtriforce, as he's also banned from the scene.
What's the "you know what"
At least it's not as bad as the Mario analysis were they basically said "Mario in smash 4 was not great because their greatest users were terrible people" which is baffling.
Unpopular opinion: Yes the tail hurtbox is annoying, but I’ve honestly gotten used to it by now as the only times it’s ever really a problem for me anymore are when I’m either dashing away or using Utilt at the wrong time. All of Mewtwo’s other tail attacks work very well for me. Especially after 8.0.0.
Mewtwo isn’t supposed to be a swordie, but rather a character who leads with Shadow Ball and condition your opponent to make a mistake. It’s a move that lacks any hurtbox and has a ton of versatility. You save the tail for when you find an opening for a combo
Honestly I am still a massive mewtwo fan, and this evolution is depressing. I always feel so sad when I see every other pokemon go over him in player base. Someday he will hopefully rise to his potential, but it wont happen if people never pick him up.
DK ? I want to see you speak about Green Ranger, the guy clearly deserves it
Put invincibility frames on or remove specifically the last hurtbox of his tail when he is using moves. That’d be easy enough I think
Pikachu weight in pokemon: 6kg. Weight in SmashU: 79
Squirtle weight in pokemon: 9kg. Weight in SSBU: 75
Greninja weight in pokemon: 40kg Weight in SSBU: 88.
Okey, that is strange, but no matter
Ivysaur weight in pokemon: 13kg Weight in SSBU: 96.
What?
Incineroar weight in pokemon: 83kg Weight in SSBU: 116
Alright, chonky boi, seems right he is tied with Charizard at 90kg for 6th heaviest in the game
Mewtwo, the original endboss, arguably the best pokemon in the entire series history, weighs in at a MASSIVE 122kg.
And where does SSBU rank his weight? 79
THE SAME AS FUCKING PIKACHU.
#MakeMewtwoAHeavy
Heavy Mewtwo would be so scary. The only floaty heavies we've ever seen are D3 and Samus. D3 has just always been too big and slow, and Samus has been good in Melee and Ult but has multi hit issues.
Heavy Mewtwo would get hit by everything and be absolutely combo food even worse then now, but he could also afford to trade so he would swing a lot more.
If they upped his damage and hitstun in a couple key attacks to go with him being a heavy then he would get even more powerful combos and traps then he already has.
@@Saskaruto16 I agree. I just want him to feel scary. Like he did in the RBY or the first movie. Keep his speed, his floatiness, his projectile, and the hurtbox on his tail. Just make him a heavy, and get ready for the most unique character in the game
@@moralombudsman Well he's already one of the most unique characters in the game as is.
I think if you made him a heavy it would definitely make him stronger. Idk if it would be broken but he would certainly give charactsrs with weaker kill power a lot of trouble because you can't really gimp him either.
@@Saskaruto16 oh wow, finally a character that can't be edgeguarded by the top tiers lul
@@moralombudsman In my opinion everyone should be edgegaurdable. That's one of my favorite parts of Melee and Rivals.
Mewtwo is canonically heavy right?
Yes, but canon doesn’t apply too well to smash
True
Yeeah! Finally my main. :D Mewtwo is certainly the most frustrating character to play because he always gives you the feeling of playing a high tier which can't be high tier just because of this fricking tail hurtbox!!! The reason why many players just give up on him because he isn't rewarding despite having many good tools. He did receive a weight buff actually and he is now as heavy as Pikachu. lol
“Smash 4 was Mewtwo’s best game” yes... if you’re not considering PM, especially the old 3.0 version;)
But he is not, that's why.
He is not overpowered in PM anymore, but many players still put him in top tier on P+ 2.15 tier list, along with Sonic, Meta Knight and Wolf.
@@mrcrumpet3915 He's still pretty OP. They didn't nerf him near enough IMO.
@@mrcrumpet3915 Never called him OP in P+, just said PM overall has been his best incarnation.
I'm glad you mentioned that most people don't understand just how bad M2's tail hurtbox is. So many people dismiss it as not a big issue when it really is. It affects everything about the character. So many people say he's underrated but he's got no results despite some very talented players attempting to play him.
You know Which video was I watching when I got the notification?
How GOOD was Mewtwo ACTUALLY, that's the most psychich type thing ever
i just picked him up as a main and yeah the tail hitbox being reduced would solve a lot of the characters problems IMO. hes fun has some cool moves and has some interesting combos. That damn tail though makes him really tough to handle with hes in disadvantage
As someone who plays a lot of mewtwo i feel like his tail hurtbox isn't that big of a problem, it's huge, but you always know its there and can manuveur around it. Having his grab fixed would be way more important to me, he already has pretty nice throws, but the grab hitbox is inside his body and barely reaches his elbow, it's a joke :/
I wouldn't mind if they don't change it but i've always find it pitiful that a legendary pokemon using telekninesis can't reach further than that lol
Mewtwo did have a tail hurtbox adjustment
Mewtwo just needs a few more changes and i think we could have a solid top tier in mewtwo
yes making the tail hurtbox like s4 would def help a ton but i think making him a bit heavier and or help him teleport cancel more reliably would help more! escaping disadvantage state is more important than to not get hit in specific moments. Mew2 dmg output is insane, and when optimized, he's scary, i secondary him with my main Pika to cover pikas only obscure and bad mu like GnW or Ness, and characters like Pacman.
The problem with balancing Mewtwo is that the status of his tail hurtbox makes or breaks the character, leaving very little even ground. Give him a tail hurtbox? He gets knocked around like a bitch from the slightest clip from the smallest of attacks. Strip the tail hurtbox altogether? Mewtwo basically has a sword now, which makes no sense considering the tail is a part of his body and thus should be tangable.
You COULD remove the tail hurtbox and have him not use his tail as an attack to compensate, but that would be poor character design since the tail is one of Mewtwo's defining characteristics and not having him use it as an attack would feel wrong.
And you also COULD strip the tail hurtbox up to a certain point, then leave the rest, to try and have a nice balance, but I'm sure that would garner complaints from players about "hitbox dissonance" or what-have-you.
Mewtwo's character design as a whole is so polarising that I find it difficult to imagine a perfect world where he was good, but balanced. He's either been top tier or low tier, and it all comes down to the tail.
There are plenty of characters that turn their body parts into disjoints. Terry's leg, Bowser's fist, and GnW's head are a few of many examples of body parts having invulnerability or intangibility during attacks. Even Charizard's tail is more disjointed than Mewtwo's, and you don't hear people complain about Charizard's bair. Mewtwoo's tail not having a hurtbox wouldn't "feel wrong" to me since it makes sense from a balancing standpoint
Mewtwo main here, yeah he's not the best in ultimate, but damned it's good to win with !
When you win, you earned it, well and clean.
Only way you get lucky to unlock Mewtwo is to unlock him during a mission of a l Foe has appeared
Give him his djc aerials in melee back and he would be insane. You know how absurd his djc fair would be in neutral in ultimate? That would compensate for the tail.
I main Mewtwo in Ultimate and looking at Smash 4 Mewtwo made me feel like im playing a shell of a character and not the character itself
I like the fact that according to Google, Mewtwo weighs more than Bowser,
It proves that the Smash Universe is truly a warped reality,
Mew Two's air game is still oppressive
His tail hitbox got reduced a few patches ago
Downtilt uptilt nuteral air
Uptilt uptilt up air
Down tilt shorthop shadowclaw
That’s sad 😢 he should be the master player character
I felt like people overexaggerate the Tail as Mewtwo's weakness. Mewtwo's problem is basically the same as a heavy, mediocre frame data, big hurtbox (which includes that pesky tail) and bad movility with the lack of proper defensive options, but also absurdly light. Mewtwo in smash 4 had the best airdodge, got a smaller hurtbox and became one of the fastest on the cast, reason why it became top tier. In Ultimate he lost that airdodge and his hurtbox became a bit bigger (not as bad as Melee).
Smash is not only about offense, but defense as well, and Mewtwo had a really bad one in melee and ultimate; that's the reason why the best characters in history tend to have the most broken defensive options (Quick Attack, Shine, Glide, Witch time, Rebeld Guard)
PS: STOP CENSORING THE PAST!
I couldn't agree with this statement more. Though I think people seem to forget that Mewtwo also had his frame data and also consequently his (still strong) combo game nerfed in return for some K.O power.
@@kyeCalibur I mean, Fox has a tail hurtbox, as well as Diddy Kong in Brawl and Smash 4. Is it a weakness? Yeah, bigger hurtbox is always a bad thing. It'll ruin the character? No unless he has other glaring issues. Just look at Game & Watch, an arguably top tier with three big problems, frame data, weight and range, but still has strenghts so huge that the weakness don't hold it a lot in practice.
PS: Charizard has a disjointed tail and is the worst of the pokemon the trainer has. Squirtle has a hitbox in his tail and is still the best pokemon of the trainer. Altough I was expecting a somewhat lackluster analysis from proguides (The competitive story of Pikachu was far worse than the FSG one for example, and the latter does not even analize smash regularly).
Many people have point this out already. But Mew2 is held by his major nair revant in ult. Upsmash lacks an scoop hitbox and the slow double. Altho double jump allows mew2 to chase his opponent to hell and back off stage. Personally i feel they will keep buffong mew2 as the dlc comes out. Lets be positive. Regardless i love playing as him Regardless.
Zenkai is one of the few Mewtwo mains I watch that makes Mewtwo look op.
That damn tail hurtbox gotta be the only thimg keeping him from top tier
Mewtwo main. The fact that this video is one of the first of them, before even the 64 cast was finished, makes me a happy Trainer.
My top 15 fighters in smash are bowser, captain falcon, dark Samus, pit, bayonetta, young link, ryu, sonic ,pacman, meta knight, banjo Kazooie, cloud, sepheroth, mewtwo, and sora
Mewtwo is still fun as a pocket but yeah his tail gets in the way much like ridley's wings do
The meta knight king himself
UNFORTUNATELY Mewtwo is not top tier. Thats because this isn't a False Swipe Video, the meta is way more kind to him there.
@BonkMK is elite.
BONK gonna tell us about chungus
As Palu, I almost JV4'd my one friend who was playing as Mewtwo. Like two full stocks no damage taken, maybe a little chip on the third before getting hit, and I closed it out with a single-digits 3-stock. This was in Ultimate, by the way.
I feel that Mewtwo would be better if its tail was intangible on all the moves that use it
As someone who mains mewtwo in 2024, he is rewarding he just folds to faster characters
Smash really did do my boy dirty, I'm not even mad about the tail hurtbox. I just want to know why'd they removed the Shadowball damage while charging it. It's not like it's a copy of a certain move, if anything that move is a copy of Shadowball since Mewtwo did it first.
I'll happily admit Pro Gaming and Esports isn't for me: *However* with the respect I have for the dedication needed. I'll also happily admit if I had to go pro with a character.
*ITS GOTTA BE MEWTWO!*
I main mewtwo and have him in elite smash but if you use him in tournament pick up a secondary, some matchups aren’t even funny on how much i lose lol
I’m here after final patch and he got only a couple of small buffs, decent ones I guess but doesn’t solve his problems in the slightest
Me: You guys should do the competitive history of Jigglypuff.
Everyone: NO GOD PLEASE NO!
This is my favourite legendary
@Sean Moriarty didnt ask
@Sean Moriarty you got owned by Obama, how does that feel sean?
Shoutout to Taj who is most notable to me for wearing suits to tournaments and absolutely DESTROYING spacies.
Competitive history of ice climbers!!!
I’m a Mewtwo main and yeah, his tail is an issue but not his biggest issue. His biggest problem is that in terms of attack speed he’s really slow. I like him because, c’mon he’s Mewtwo, His dash/run/air speed I can deal with- but with a bait and punish style game play he lacks fast enough tools to deal with opponents.
Wtf mewtwo is fast af his problems are No disjoints and He gets juggelt
Such a shame to have such a cool character so incredibly frustrating to play. No other character is even in the same ball park when comparing the combination of incredibly light and incredibly easy to hit. What makes it more frustrating is how simple the problem is to fix. It’s upsetting that Nintendo won’t be releasing any more patches and this glaring issue wasn’t addressed. It sucks because Ultimate overall is a fairly well balanced game (excluding some dlc characters) and they left this obvious bit of unbalance in even after years when they could’ve done something about.
It
if they got rid of that big hecking tail hurtbox, and make mewtwo more heavy, mewtwo would be better. i think mewtwo is around mid tier in ultimate, but could be high tier with a few buffs
What are these psychic shenanigans in melee you speak of? Where you can pull people thru the stage?! (Its been so long I forget his melee moveset)
And why is MewtwoKing named MewtwoKing?! 😂😂😂
I love SSBU MEWTWO!!! I wanna know! I've a pocket Alien-Cat-Monster. 😎
I never had Mewtwo ever sadly I don’t think I am lucky
I feel like in these you should start talking about PM if it's notable for the character like mewtwo
Could you do the competitive history of the better round pink thing Jigglypuff next!!
Mewtwo is still one of my secondary mains
Him the legendary of legendary mewtwo
The legendary of space and time over here
Okay but I’m shook I’ve never seen this dudes face but I’ve listened to his voice for hours it’s so weird🤣🤣
But can he smash-dash
Mewtwo is one of my strongest characters in flow state but when im victim to slower response i will lose eh.
tbh with just a few minor hitbox and frame data adjustments and a buff to his weight, he'd be really good but not broken in Smash Ultimate and still be sick as hell to watch and play. as is, it's really fuckin underwhelming and just looks wrong and off to see Mewtwo, the original OP Legendary Pokemon, die to an Ike dash attack at 70%, or to die to like, idk, Cloud nair or something.
I main mewtwo and I think the buffs are significant enough to take mewtwo to high mid
Horray!! Mewtwo!!
Leffen put melee m2 in mid tier 😱
That's because Mewtwo have incredible grab game, combos and an amazing recovery, that's why he was considered midtier
Lycantube :V [ES] ik I agree I was just commenting it
Yeah I wrote the script like 2 weeks or so before he put out that tier list. Wished I could've touched on it!
They should just give invincibility on the tail on all moves that use it
Why is melee mewtwo in the thumbnail twice
It is kinda weird that ProGuides censored Ally but they didn't censored Overtriforce...
> crop out Ally’s video in order to hide his name in the video
> his name shows up with the player tag anyway
They did not change the intro but mewtwo is not getting up aired by cloud so I guess they changed the intro lol probably for this one video.
Pm mewtwo was nutty
If you dont call the blue alt bluetwo you are not alive
Just make his tail a disjoint.
Mewtwo is my secondary he's just so much fun!! I love him
I wanted Mewtwo sooooooo Bad
He will always be the strongest Pokemon in my hearts...
Up next, I wanna see jigglypuff’s competitive history. That will be a fun vid.
Do History of Peach!
Seriously nintendo what the hell
How is Mewtwo lighter than Olimar?
Olimar is literally miniature
I think it was only a few weeks ago I was bored with my mains and decided to pick up Mewtwo. Super fun character, flashy af, and great mobility.... but goddamn the mf TAIL..... It's sad because Mewtwo has everything I want in a character, but that damn tail. :(
Can we have competitive history of link please
As a corrin main i felt bad that for 2 tables corrin was always on the bottom
I main mewtwo, tail hurtbox hurts my soul
Because of his airdodge in smash4, mewtwo could always escape. Because his airdodge in Smash Ultimate, he can never escape.
Just teleport away.....
People will wait and see where u land. Not even a 5050, just wait and punish.
I wish y'all would cover PM/P+ as well!
Hey, at least he's more popular than Corrin.
That's...not saying much, but I'm a Corn main and that still hurts.
Mewtwo was nerfed in Ultimate... Wait til he sees Marth. Lol
Is this on a Wii
Mewtwo is High Tier in Ultimate.
Tier list don’t mean nothing .. is the person behind the controller that does
BOWSER COMPETITIVE HISTORY PLEASE