Fixing LED Light RFI
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- I recently turned on my IC-7300 to find repeating noise across all HF bands. It turned out to be from some cheap WiFi LED lights that I had installed. This is a quick look at my journey to try to fix it.
Here are links to some different clip on ferrite choke assortments:
(Note these are affiliate links)
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Also check out the companion website for this channel at: a-2-z.tech/
I couldn't help but notice on your kitchen counter top, you have but another RFI Generator !
That being the Keurig coffee maker !
I discovered this one morning as I was working some fellows about 65 miles away, on Six Meters !
Listening to their conversation from the kitchen, I happened to notice an electrical noise on my receiver, that seemed to coincide with my using the Keurig coffee maker !
Not sure of its method of transmission, rather via the Airwaves, or coupling to the electrical service, I can't say !
Finding the source of noise, was enough for me !
At first, I really couldn't believe what I was hearing !
And more what I had discovered, after investigating a little further !
That being, that the coffee maker made noise as it was actively making coffee, but also was producing noise as it was setting idle, but plugged in to the power outlet !
I must admit, the interference on Six, was enough for me, that I don't recall researching other bands, but told myself it would likely be a noise maker on other Amateur Radio frequencies, so I stopped there !
But I have made mention to other local Amateur's that also claimed to have the Keurigs, with similar, if not the same results !
But trust me, they too are noise makers, unfortunately !
And must be totally unplugged from their power source, to stop the noise generating !
Didn't mean to Pile on, but since seeing your countertop, I am now wondering if it really was just the lighting, or if they became a partner in crime, if you will ?
Sorry, but this may have you going back for some more experimenting yourself ?
Hope you found this helpful !
Noise, any noise being an enemy of the Radio Amateur !
'73 !
So, fun story. We got rid of cable TV a long time ago and now use a gang of outdoor antennas, going through an active head end (programmable active filter, amplifier). We record shows with our DVR which is how we discovered that at times, certain channels (VHF) were getting obliterated. I discovered the source of this problem and many will not believe it! It turned out to be the new Waterpik we bought! The old one never did this, but I quickly realized why this one did. The old one used a brushless motor and the new one now uses a cheap, 120V AC brushed motor.... AND NO FILTERING AT ALL!
I too tried the usual adding ferrite chokes, but to no real avail. Only minor. What I ended up having to do to solve this was a multi-step process. I had to add a dual layer foil wrap around the motor (with an airspace between them), 2 coils on both live and neutral, several HV Ceramic capacitors (AC) and finally, change the power cord from the 2 wire to 3 wire. That helped a lot. But still, not 100%. Finally, the resolution was to build a small isolation transformer with suppression circuitry on input and output. LOL I also added extra shielding. That worked! All this for a stupid Waterpik to keep our teeth clean. LOL
Thanks for the info and the great story. More & more, modern electronics seem to have crap for filtering. I suspect many new items don’t meet the FCC EMI requirements and figure forgiveness is cheaper than testing if the manufacturer ever gets called out on it.
It cleared up the RFI completely when I used ferrite on all my LED lights and wall watts that I power several Raspberry Pi’s with. I tinker with digital modes with Windows and Raspberry Pi. It also cleared up the noise generated by the next door neighbor’s electric dog fence. As long as electronic a manufactured in China a prodigious amount of ferrite being used is a must. Should have voted for Ross Perot back then.
Thanks Tom good to here from you, I’ve noticed on some bands I have RFI will try this. Thanks again.
Also, if you run any kind of CAT Cable Hubs, these are a significant noise source. Just something else to try.
I would put a cap on the Input power. It looks like the inductor on the input made a change. Many of the little wall worts are noisy and unfiltered. I would try a small cap where the power supply connects the wire you added. It is low voltage so it will not be very big of a cap and only needs to be a short for RF.
Ok Tom good video again. Also, watch out for those magnetic chargers for charging flashlights, cell phones, and other stuff. WB8BRA. Oh yes, once again Tom; it is your fault for me buying the 7300. Thank you very much...
Go down into the basement and place a ferrite immediately upon the power output side, as close to the wall wart as feasible.
That's a great suggestion. I had dismissed the wall wart early on since the WiFi controller is always powered and the noise disappears with the lights off. However, it could be that noise generated by the wall wart gets worse as the output current increases. I'll post something here in the comments if it makes any difference.
@@HamRadioA2Z The other thing that I would recommend use a shielded cable to convey the power from the basement and ensure that the shield is grounded. I've had awful problems with wall warts that don't include a ground pin (e.g. they only have prongs for hot and neutral). Those are terrible and almost always guilty of EMI. 73 W6MGV
Find an old school big and heavy 5v DC wall wart with a transformer in it instead of switch mode type and splice to USB . 73
Good demo on how to deal with RFI
Istarted suffering bad interference on Top Band 80, 40 and 20 in December. I thought it was Chritmas lights, but it persisted after Chritmas. Some recently acquired scart to HDMI converter leads were part of the problem. Their mains adaptors were noisy. Buying a better mains to USB adaptor partially cured it. Unplugging the adaptor when I m on the radio helped further. Top Band and 20 are ok ow, but 80 is still very noisy. Lots of ferrite clip ons have not helped. Will keep t it.
Try and old school 5vDC wall wart power supply .73
I bought some Ever Ready led bulbs and they are fine with no radio frequency interference.
My gas boiler affects the low end of medium and long wave and I guess a neighbour has one as there's always noise present, at least I can turn my boiler off.
My worst problem is broadband QRM from the internet, S 8 on 160m to 20m with the exception of 60m.
G4GHB
Tom, without making an Addendum to my other comment here, I had made without watching your video through it's entirety !
But when I heard you say,
" Wall Wart " it made me want to tell you, that those miniature Switching power supplies, aka.
" Wall Warts ", too are known noise generators themselves !
So I wonder if you might experiment with another power source ?
Just a thought !
'73 !
Fingers crossed !🤞
Hi. I never did do a follow-up video on this. You're right about the Keurig, and unfortunately, almost everything else electronic we have in our houses these days. I did do some additional testing, including running the lights on a separate lab DC power supply. The wall wart is putting out about 19 volts (a little scary, since it has what appears to be a micro-USB plug. As near as I can tell, most of the noise is coming from the LED control module. I guess this makes sense, since it is outputting the variable (likely PWM) output to the LEDs.
@@HamRadioA2Z
Indeed !
Well my health went sideways on me a couple years ago, so anything Radio kinda got put on the back burner, so to speak, and not even on simmer !
Hi...!
But before I was very active, along with a fellow from the Power company, in tracking various electrical noises !
But the Keurig was a lucky find for me !
Right place, right time !
And as I said, it wasn't enough to turn it off, it had to be unplugged !
I may be preaching to the choir, so forgive me, but another noise maker many overlook are these goofy touch lamps !
Another horrible noise maker across the Ham Bands !
I knew a local Ham that said he hadn't run any HF for years because of noise !
When I asked him if he had one of those lamps !
He did, and unplugged it, and it was the source that kept him from operating for years, mind you !
Another noise makers are Grow Lights people use to grow marijuana, and who knows what else ?
But the Power guy told me about that one !
And the last one I'll throw at you, is one that unbelievably covered Six meters end to end, was a cordless screwdriver, I believe sold thru Harbor Freight ?
My nextdoor neighbor had one plugged in, and when he unplugged it, the noise was gone !
But it was probably for me, the worst offender !
But you're correct, just so much of this stuff, especially from China just eats up the spectrum !
I have to think intentionally !
But here we are !
Good luck with the ongoing battle, as I'm sure it will continue , either with contraptions we ourselves purchase, or sadly our neighbors !
Hi !
Thanks for sharing, and if nothing else, I hope I gave you some ideas ?
'73 & Good DX !
Find your self an old power pack (not a switcher) of the correct voltage and swap it out I think that will eliminate all your RFI from the lights. I found that the cheep switchers are incredibly noisy.
I have done some other testing, but haven’t put a video together yet. I did get some surprising results.
Great tip thanks.
Would it work as well if I put ferrite on power cables of lamps we use with WiFi bulbs?
Cheers!
73 de 2E0HJN
New project idea:
How about a CAT circuit to detect when you switch to 40 meters, and automatically switch off the lights.
I read the amazon listing and if I am not mistaken there was no indication of the mix type. Mix type is critical. Plus, do you really trust cheap snap-on cores from china? I get all my USA made known mix ferrite cores and snap-ons from Palomer Engineers in California. I think if you try their products you will find there will be a huge difference.
Yes, you are right. He should be knowing about the existence of different mix of ferrites and the specific frequency response etc. He has not found out anything new here; probably he might do one day I think 🤔
De VU2RZA
Hi Rick. You are correct, mix is important. If I was making an impedance transformer or a band pass filter for specific bands, I would be much more concerned about a specific mix. If you check the data sheets for EMI filter, snap on ferrites from companies like Wurth and Kemet, they usually list impedances for a range of frequencies. If they say anything about the mix it is usually “proprietary”. I believe most of the EMI snap ons are designed to provide some blocking impedance from a few hundred kHz to a few tens of MHz. That’s where most switching power supplies and “typical” electronics make most of their noise and it’s also where many of the EMI regulations have the most scrutiny.
@@HamRadioA2Z hi, AtoZ, the reference to the Amazon vendor(s) don't have an honest answer to the mix type, though the second reference mentions Ni-Zn in one place. They are surplus products from China and you are not the one who got deceived to buy these junks.
One person (must be an amateur radio operator) specifically asks if they are of any mix like 43,61 and 31. Guess what, the answer is to contact the seller.
These have no names or anything associated, hi..hi.
At any one point in time you can buy tons of such ferrites and not a single piece would be good for the specific problem you wanted to solve in this video.
These would be fine from less than few hundreds of KHz to less than 1-2 MHz.
You may want to read K9YC's ferrite cook book and G3TXQ (a silent key) who have done a great job in the field.
My suggestion is to use #31, a Ni-Mn, all rounder for the HF, VHF and UHF bands.
Try any number of turns that works for you. And you mentioned other ways to alleviate the problem that I don't have to reiterate.
Most of the white noise, whines are of less than 10 MHz and are vertically polarized; hence the "vertical noise antenna" in the"noise eliminator" scheme.
The noise is a problem only on the 160,80&40 meter bands. There's no much noise on the 20 meter and above; even a 5,5-5,7 signal would be great to work on these bands. S/N ratio would be good too.
I hope you will succeed and make a video to that effect.
De VU2RZA
Would be interested to see if the rfi is worse when the led's dim?
I get rfi from my sons strip LED lights only when they are dim. Still looking for a solution 80m-10m
Paul
VK2LN
Hi Paul. I didn't include it on the video, but I did try the lights a several different dimming levels. The nature of the noise changed very slightly, but no real effective difference between 25% and 100% brightness.
Tom what about the wall wart that supplies the lights with power? Did ya try a different one?
The AC adapter came with the lights. The plug looks like a USB mini (not micro) plug, but I haven't checked to confirm that it supplies 5V and on the same pins as a USB cable. So not sure I can easily swap in a standard USB power supply.
@@HamRadioA2Z I had a buzz in my FT-710. I put the radio on a battery and opened the main breaker to the house and buzz went away. After tearing the house apart I found the buzz was some similar lights I put in the bathroom. The power adapter was the culprit.
@@HamRadioA2ZIf your speaker wire extension were instead a twisted pair, most of the noise on 40MHz would go away.
sell the radio or the house
Or get some new lights?... I'm dealing with a similar RFI issue with some automotive LED's messing with keyless entry remote signal. Chokes and shielding have not worked well enough but more expensive bulbs may help (supposedly). For now, I lock my doors manually or just outside the cab since the RFI kills the range of the remote/key fob.
Yeah, new lights was a thought. Unfortunately, it seems that virtually all of the "fancy" color control/WiFi type LED light sets are pretty similar w/ regard to RFI. Stay tuned, I've been doing more playing and will be posting a follow up video on this.
Did you think about trying to use a portable HF receiver to isolate it to a certain lead or wire? Just a thought. 73
I hadn’t, but that’s a good idea. I’ve received enough comments on this one that I will be going a follow up.
Return the lights and get your money back. You are only passing the same problem on to other people.
Disable , then return . No pass on problem .
Like and comment to help the channel.
Hi Tom, I have an RFI problem in my Shack only 10m from sunrise to sunset. I think it must be related to some solar system, possibly some Chinese inverter from a neighbor. I have many neighbors with solar panel systems. Is there any solution to eliminate that RFI in my radio during the day, since the 10M band is totally useless during sunrise to sunset? Thanks WP4QIB
That would be coming from their inverter(s) which are known to almost always be noisy.
100% GUARANTEED way to eliminate that noise.....move your station to Mars and remove all wordly noises in one deft move. Simples...
Your chokes are not installed correctly for 40MHz. Choking both power leads in the same direction does nothing. Separate the two power conductors and run each conductor through the core in opposite directions. Also, many low voltage electronics these days have a bridge rectifier up front so they can be powered from DC either polarity, or from AC. If this is the case, try replacing your power supply downstairs (wall wart) with an AC output wall wart.
Give a Hoot Don't Pollute ! , The right thing to do is fix it all the way or scrap it . I would like it very much if you didn't add to the noise floor on 40 I cant turn those lights off whenever I want like you can , thanks ! ⚡⚡⚡📻‼ Try Using an old school 5v DC Wall wart that has a transformer instead of the switch-mode junk . Splice it to the USB . 73