BETTER Than Warhammer?! Zweihander & Warlock! (Ep. 372)
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Professor DM reviews Zweihander and Warlock!, two RPGs inspired by Warhammer FRP.
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Oh hey! Those are my maps in the Zweihander box! Cheers, Prof!!
GREAT maps! Hit me up on Twitter. W should talk.
Wow I'm fan of your art! Didn't know though, very cool!!
Hey Map Crow! Love your maps dude!
great stuff!
dude, you're talented. Is there more material from you out there?
I bought Zweihander in the hopes it was an improvement over WHFRP 1e and 2e. It looked promising at first, but the more I read, the more I realized it added a lot of unnecessary complications.
I agree, I think Zweihander is a good source of house rules to make your current WFRP 1/2e or 4e more interesting/better. Even then, it is hard to justify that purchase.
Yes, not an improvement over the original
I hear the second edition cuts the fat, but the guy who was telling me about was wearing a lot of fun makeup and had found ruin playing with fireworks so grain of salt.
Doesn't even touch old school Warhammer Fantasy. Good Attempt, but not quite.
Was the same. Didn't buy into it but had tried it out during its early testing phases; it really had some odd systems that added unnecessary complications. I've moved onto 4th edition WFRP from 2nd and I'm enjoying that.
"May all of your rolls be 20s." That's not a half-bad roll in a percentile system.
Indeed!
I don't like Zweihander but I love this review ^_^
I've heard nothing but bad things about the author. It's enough to keep me away.
@@dirigoallagash3464Same.
@@dirigoallagash3464 same.
Same@@dirigoallagash3464
@@dirigoallagash3464 Same here
The other clear inspiration for Warlock is obviously the Fighting Fantasy game books from Britain, including The Warlock of Firetop Mountain. As soon as I saw those Stamina and Luck ability scores, and that art style, I instantly flashed back.
Forest of Doom was my first.
@@bluecarpettiles Mine too, and City of Thieves.
After playing both, i do have to say whfrpg 1e is still the best option, 4e is also good.
4e is the best. Just hate setting lol
@@coldstream11Like with any setting, I just take what I like and mold into what I want to be. My brain can't handle learning every detail of the lore and history. Give me a vibe and some cool monsters, and im good to go.
4e is a hot mess...
WF2E Forever
WFRP 4E is fine except for having four versions of Fate Pts.
Both WFRP 2E and Zweihander beats WFRP 4E on that, as well as Zweihander having clearer character sheets.
Other than that, both systems are great and quite similar.
WFRP 4E is tied to The Old World setting, and has heaps of supplements and resources.
Zweihander is much more indie, but ideal for making up your own grimdark renaissance setting
The genuine excitement on “Oh look, I rolled a one” is terrific.
I really enjoy learning about TTRPG’s that aren’t D&D on this channel 😊
Glad you like them!
Being German I have to patronize people, else my citizenship gets revoked: just pronounce the 'händ' in 'Zweihänder' like the English word 'hand'. Besides that, your German is pretty good and I enjoy the names in your szenarios.
Thank for educating me. I'll try to correct my pronounciation in future videos!
I agree! Try to pronounce it like „Tsweihander“. The Z in German is also different then in English.
More like
“Ts-vy-handuh” eh, given the ä
@@michaelwelker8759 9/10 Amis würden jetzt "hinder" sagen
@@michaelwelker8759I think he is already pronouncing the ä correctly thus no change is needed.
Warlock is great. And shares a lot with Deathbringer. Abstract ranges/zoned combat, basically sided initiative, and the good old roll a d20 and add. And the various supplements for it add a lot.
You piqued my interest with the deathbringer comparison.
Rules light rules!
One important thing to note is that they're running a kickstarter THIS MONTH to fund the next edition that will replace all the Zweihander stuff (Revised Core Rulebook and even the starter that is only a year and a half old) so caveat emptor. Supposedly they're coming out with a compatibility update/document but I still wouldn't recommend getting something that is already announced to be replaced soon. And I say that as someone who bought the starter just a few weeks before they announced the new edition... :(
one of the core design principles is to be backwards compatible, though. i wouldn’t recommend getting the core book but the starter set will basically be good to use i think
Warlock! is magnificent and already has a ton of great supplements.
I helped with " Earn your Crust ". More classes/ professions.
Thrilled to see you cover this! I'm currently using Warlock! to play the Enemy Within campaign. Half way through the first book now and it's great! And I've never owned or read WHRP core rules.
Glad I could help!
Thanks for the review PDM.
Thanks for commenting!
Brotherhood of the Wolf--nice! An interesting film that I don't think got the attention it deserved...
I saw it in an empty theater with 3 people total and was blown away. Such a cool movie.
Hi Prof. DM! Thanks for covering these other games. I'm always looking for something interesting to try.
You are welcome.
I picked up the Zweihander box set and love it, but I don't have Warlock. I'm going to have to correct that oversight. Fantastic video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I love how the idol only has one eye left. lol
I really wanted to like OG Zwei, ran a campaign for several months. There were things I liked, like the damage threshold and critical hits. But I felt it had too many little subsystems, the weapons were kind of confusing, and we ended switching over to Renaissance Deluxe, a more traditional D100 system. Zwei was also big; 1,200 pages of rules between the core book and 1st supplement. I'll stick with my OG 1E WHFRP for that kind of play.
Warlock looks fun, but I have so many systems already. :)
Renaissance is excellent. As is Clockwork And Chivalry (basically Renaissance engine with clockwork war machines and magic in the 1600s...Great fun).
I really like Warlock I need to read my copy instead of just skimming it. Might convince my group to play it sometime!
I just picked up Warlock. I kind of like Zweihander a little better but warlock is really cool too I'm glad I ended up grabbing both. I feel like Warlock will be easier to talk D&D players into like you mentioned. Those damn d20 people *shakes fist*
Zweihander - when Warhammer is too rules light for you
Zweihänder, when you steal another game's rules.
@nerzenjaeger Except it's not theft.
Even if it was, good artists create, great artists steal.
@@douglascolquhoun8502 It kinda is, especially if you're then alluding to the same setting that's the brainchild of some cool chaps like Rick Priestley. And even though that's a nice saying you have there, you will find it doesn't apply nearly as often in real life.
@@nerzenjaeger it applies to game rules, though (not positioning here, just stating)
@@nerzenjaeger GW: "You're trying to kidnap what I rightfully stolen."
Warhammer fantasy RPG was my first love in tabletop scene. We moved to 2ed and played many great campaigns. I still have my old beat-up 1ed book. I knew the system had its flaws, but the setting...oh wow so awesome and rich. Thanks for this review, happy the setting and grim dark style continues on
I like the old school approach these games are taking.
It is nice to see a resurgence.
Rules leaving things up to GM's discretion is something I enjoy, because even the same thing can have a different outcome or function different in various situations. That is a bit harder to do with exact & detailed rulings.
Your videos, most-best to least-best:
Adventure talk-throughs, Game reviews, (big gap), WotC Goss.
I like all your stuff, but you seem most animated - and therefore most engaging and watchable - when you do videos like this one that you are clearly happy to talk about.
Thanks. You are correct. These videos don't get many views, though. To see why, watch Monday's video. Even though it's click-baity.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Maybe try this title:
BETTER Than Warhammer?! Zweihander & Warlock! (Ep. 372), plus HOTT WotC GOSS!
Then add thirty seconds at the end of the video saying something ludicrously scurrilous about WotC execs.
It would be an inside joke to the big-brained, and clickbait for the small!
Good review. I remember some friends were so upset with Warhammer 3rd edition.
I was too. Although the art was great.
I'm looking forward to running Warhammer soon, hope my players are ready 😆
11:36 that artwork is a wonderful omage to the Darkest Dungeon games. Hard not to recognize helion!
Not sure about Warlock, but the creator of Zweihänder (Ä = A and E at the same time, not A and O) has the worst reputation for being a nobb end.
Have both… tweaking Warlock! atm to make it more in line with WHFP buuuut keeping the simplicity of Warlock!
Thank you for watching!
What kind of changes did you make? I'd like to see that.
@@n4tune8 Google Warlock RPG house rules. I took liberally from that person's page, notably the willpower stat idea for both sanity/additional casting stat points. I am also adding talents from the whfrp but modified so that each profession opens meaningful options beyond skill purchases... Finally I took ALL the supplements and their professions and made it into a D6 set of tables for character creation. If you keep the random roll results you start with bonus xp
Good review- excellent breakdown on the mechanics (with examples) - players need to know there are more games to play besides 5e -
Thank you for the recommendations I think one my friends gonna love Zweihãnder and Warlock!.
Don't think characters have hit points in zweihander. I was under the impression armor did not absorb damage but made your damage threshold higher.
It's "Tsvi-hender", by the way. The "i" like in "Twilight".
Will correct in future videos.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I remembered how happy you were about knowing the correct pronunciation of "Mörk Börg". :)
A "Z" in German is almost always a "Ts" sound. As hard as you can expect from our language. :D
Warlock! Favorite UK gritty wacky grimdark jobbased fantasy i own ^^
Impossible
Okay I wanna get Zweihander just to add the classes to my warhammer 4e games.
Could you please take a look at Streets of Peril? It is Warhammer D6 dice pool
i wrote for the zine! awesome game, super excited for storms over sturmburgh.
Jeez, $25 for a pdf?
@@daniell7439 me too, it looks so great. Sadly I do not have a group to play it with at the moment
I've seen a lot of videos in my lifetime and THIS was one of them.
Lol. Good one.
Cool review! I love it when you talk about Warhammer on your channel. I recommend taking a look at Kobayashi's Fleaux, a WFRP-inspired hack with similar rules to the Black Sword Hack.
That's on my list. I LOVE his games.
The Warlock page layout reminds me of Shadowdark.
We played a short campaign of Zweihander and the Fire Ruby Design Warlock! books for the core of my homebrew setting. Love both!
I'll have to try this out some day.
I am a big fan of WFRP so thank you for this. I am always looking to other alternatives. I would like to learn more about the setting.
I have the Warlock ... like it. Haven't seen/purchased Zweihander (yet)
.
Don't fall for it.
So great to see some other games, Nice work, love it.
I will say, much like D&D 4e, WFRP3 lost people but was still something of a commercial success - D&D 4e was way more of a success than its critics often consider...
3rd had GREAT art.
I've owned the original Zweihander book for a while now. Is this a new edition or just a reprint with new art?
That is the starter set.
What is the difference between this Zweihander, and the previous edition?
The character sheet was the thing I noticed. I cannot fully remember.
My impression...
Warhammer: PCs are incompetent and die quickly.
DnD: PCs are overcompetent and invincible.
I like players to be competent yet vulnerable.
Not sure if Zweihander of Warlock fit that space since I haven't played either.
Warhammer characters are WAY more resilient than AD&D characters because of Fate Points. I'd say they are competent but the power levels are toned down and progress in Warhammer is slower.
The average stat in WH is 30% and progression is very slow. That's why I find WH PCs incompetent. It's like being stuck at level 0 for a very long time. Success rate should be higher than 30%. It should be around 50% and even higher for something you re supposed to be good at.
Elves had higher stats, making everyone wanna be an elf.
Magic users started with one petty spell and suffered even more from slow progression (they get either an extra spell or higher stat but not both).
Other than that, I like d100, inverting fice results, rolling doubles, fate and fortune points, corruption and insanity, lasting injuries and slow healing, social standing... but not the low stat block and stagnant progression.
Nice review! I had heard of these, but it's great to see what you're getting!
THANK you for watching.
Sold out! Zwiehander ist kaput! Not really you can get it other places. The starter kit apparently came out in 2022?
We have restocks on the shop for the remaining inventory we have for Starter Kits. This begins the reprint to get Core Books back on shelves.
@@WorldofGameDesign Thanks. I purchased a copy from Amazon while you were temporarily out.
Zweihander is literally the only RPG book that I regret purchasing. There are plenty of books on my shelves that haven't been played but I don't regret buying. Zweihander, on the other hand.. Now that WFRP is back in print and supported, there is no reason to pick up Zweihander. None. Daniel Fox acts like his farts smell like roses but he's been a jerk all over the RPG community.
Fox is a scourge on the hobby. You're right.
yup
Warlock fine, Zwei - no thanks.
yeah, I like my games without being force fed someone else's politics
Wow what an incredible helpful video I really hope to stay up to date on this kind of TTRPG content
It's funny how much Fox used to absolutely hate when folks compared his game to Warhammer, to the point I won't purchase anything made with his involvement. Warlock! on the other hand is like if we had a B/X version of Warhammer, it's great. I know 4E Warhammer has a lot of classes, but it does let you play those politics games rather than combat heavy ones, so that's fun and I'll probably stick to it.
Profesor Dungeon Master, I do recommend you to take a look to a module for OSE titled "Escape from Miklagard". I played it a month ago and had a blast. Is about surviving the riots of a Constantinople-like city as if was a mega dungeon.
Noted. Will have to check it out.
Zweihander is pretty cool, but much as I love the career system in the Warhammer family, EZD6 really spoiled both me and my players when it comes to rules 😅
I love EZd6, it’s so much fun to run.
The Zweihänder Starter Kit has been in FLGS’ for quite a while - so what exactly is it that is coming for Kickstarter?
The Core rulebook is no longer in print so this is Zweihander Reforged - the new Core Book
Professor, you should really take a look at Dark Albion and Lion & Dragon. The first is a setting, the second a version of D&D that is as medieval-authentic as it gets... Seems right down your alley! :-D
And there's a new edition (of sorts) about to be published, set in 12-13th century Poland, so Witcher vibes, smaller settlements and a more grim world, compared to L&D medieval setting.
Professor, I really wish you dug a little deeper into the the differences between Warlock! and WFRP. It’s a significantly more streamlined game, and takes quite a few concepts from Fighting Fantasy like the luck attribute.
All true. Time constraints.
Thanks for the reviews-- been curious about these
Glad you like them!
Thanks for the reviews! You're awsome for sharing this stuff. Warlock looks cool. I wonder about Warpstar, Warlock's sci-fi brother. A review on that would be nice. Still, dependeing on the content, a review on that might be redundant. I know you dont cover much sci-fi but I remeber your review of Vast Grimm. My wife hates tha cover of that book and she calles the game "Thumping Guts". Its a nice rpg in my collectuon I keep hidden from her! :) Ha! Oh well.
I think Warpstar runs best looking at it from a 1st edition 40k setting; chaotic and 80s punk w/out Chaos destroying everything. The empire is 'evil' enough to give you grim dark.
Zweihander is _almost_ an excellent game. In practice, any game system is fine for the mundane parts, they live and die by how they respond when pushed. Zweihander breaks under stress, badly. Characters are _not_ easily killed, exactly the opposite. Try hunting a rabbit. You need to do 24 pts of damage to kill it in a single hit, assuming a damage threshold of 0. This is a problem that cannot be avoided by simple _choosing_ not to exploit broken parts of the system. If you don't want your players to have to hold back, then the synergies in the magic system make a party of 3-4 casters basically unstoppable (like, chained crit-successes from 2 minutes after they wake up till the end of the day, every day). And no, corruption isn't really a risk, since there are ways to mitigate that risk.
The way Zweihänder handles corruption and alignment is sublime, a great mechanic to actually represent moral grayness and the influence of a violent and dark world on an individual. Never liked Warhammer, mostly the lore but also mechanics-wise, but I'm actually finding it enjoyable to run Zweihänder. My players otoh are ZH 1&2 veterans and they also seem to prefer the ZH mechanics (they are actually way less clunky and more streamlined than it seems), and it's easier for me to diverge from their expectations of dark fantasy and for them to follow when the GW serial numbers have been filed off, so to speak.
As for Warlock - read the rules, seems simple, but didn't click. Maybe I'll give it a chance one day, but definitely keeping ZH's Alignment.
I feel like Warlock really should have gone the Dragonbane route of updating a d100 system to modern day and just swapped the d100 for a d20 and kept the roll under. :shrug:
Is it just me, or wearing metal armor should decrease damage from a lightning spell instead of increasing it? At least if you're wearing full plate armor electricity should go directly to the ground without harming you too much (except for your armor getting hotter, but yoy're also wearing plenty of thermal insulation and all the sweat will prevent it from catching on fire)
Another Monday. 😒 Oh wait, that means Professor DM is going to drop a new video. 🤩
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your viewership.
Another great video. Warlock looks right up my alley.
Wow! Those games sound fun!
Thanks for giving us a look see.
Thanks for watching!
I can confidently say "nah."
Yeah I cannot support Daniel Fox and his Warhammer ripoff.
@@Ravenclaw74 Motherfuckers can make 8,023 Apocalypse World rip offs (which any partially trained ape with a word processor can do) and you dorks eat it up, but for some reason the spinning off Warhammer is just too much. Absolute clownshoes of a subculture.
I can, considering fans had been begging since GW screwed Green Ronin and Fantasy Flight over, and before, as well as after. Long story short, GW hates it's fans and if you are a fan, you're just a pay pig to them. They are not the cool, fun, punk rock company they were. Seems that company died in 92.
I'd much rather play Warlock! than WFRP because I like my systems simple.
@@josephshriner2850 wfrp is made by Cubicle 7. Gw is just a licensor. They have no input in the game.
Zweihander: if Sweet Baby worked on an indie ttrpg.
Very intrigued by this. I have always liked the warhammer/Zweihander vibe, but the crunch always turned me off.
I bought the Zweihander starter set a while back. I havent played it yet, but i love how it deals with morally grey issues and not just stuff thats black and white.
I love all of professor DM’s videos!
Thank you for your kind words!
Zweihander is a hard pass. Fox is an ass.
I have raconteur on my business card! SOLD!
Cool! I want your card!
You forgot to mention Cubicle 7's new version of Warhammer Fantasy RPG, which is a great game! They also have a Warhammer Age of Sigmar RPG and Warhammer 40k RPGs!
I had never heard of Warlock, it seams like a nice system, and I love the big font in the book. I thought Zweihander had released that starter set a while ago, will keep an eye out for the Kickstarter.
I did a review. It got 120k views--my most popular review video ever. ua-cam.com/video/PUN4x7QFweE/v-deo.html
Zweihander's creator past actions make the game unappealing to me. The only cool thing about Zweihander is the artwork. Also Streets of Peril is a better Warhammer Fantasy RPG.
What did the creator of Zweihander do?
@@julesdriscoll02 He’s publicly shares strong political opinions and disinvites people who disagree with him from buying his products.
He’s a loudmouth blowhard who can’t fathom people have different views.
@@julesdriscoll02 Acted like a pretentious jerk multiple times, allegedly did some algorithm abusing shenanigans to make his game be more visible and better rated on DrivethruRPG, by his own admission got The Trove shut down because people were sharing his not-plagiarized version of Warhammer Fantasy. I don't know how he did it, but his biggest accomplishment is making people in the P&P hobby that usually despise each other despise him. He's the embodiment of "That guy".
Killing The Trove is enough to justify any amount of ire. Getting to read everything I saw on the shelves but couldn't afford growing up was priceless. I was inspired to buy so many PDFs and books because I liked the PDF that I read there first.
Zweihander is the one book I think everyone, regardless of interest, should pirate.
You can do what the Professor has (more or less) done: play D&D lite (or Warlock, for that matter) in the Warhammer Fantasy *setting*.
Oh no...now, I have to buy more ...things. These look great
Sorry. But games are fun!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 guess I gotta build some more shelf space for my games...
I've seen Zweihander in the local bookstore but never heard anyone playing it.
Be the first!
Hey, hold up a second is this one of those non-DnD videos you keep hearing you don't make? 😅
It is. And its getting buried by UA-cam. On Monday I'll tell you why.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I'll be watching. Dungeons and Discourse has an interesting video up that I suspect is on the topic as well, so it will be fun to compare and contrast theories. Sorry the video is getting buried, both games sound like fun. Zweihander is hard of but the other was new to me, though I didn't know they were built on Warhammer Fantasy. I love this hobby
I love all Dungeon Craft videos! ❤
Thank you.
All these resemble Mordheim if Mordheim were an rpg.
Which is what Dungeons of Drakkenheim is.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I didn’t know of this, thanks for mentioning it. I’m a definite fan of Mordheim.
The zweihander game is great love the map made by Kyle aka map crow and warlock is good fun too
Great video, thanks Dan!
After what I have read about the Zweihander guy I think I will pass.
Have Warlock though wish I could find some one to play. Or Warhammer for that matter.
What did you read? That he contributed to close The Trove website? That's the reason lot of people are blaming him?
Be serious please
@@Zotob1975 that and he's an obnoxious jerk. Finally, he's using the fact that he trimmed 250 pages out of this version of Zweihander as a selling point. Nothing says "I have a coherent vision and know where to take the game to fulfill it" like having to shrink the second iteration of your game. That's certainly the way new editions usually work.
Shrieking about people on the Trove “stealing HIS game” which is WHFRP with the serial number filed off.
@@gulfharmony more like "people downloaded and saw what a mess his game is, thus decided not to buy it". The only ones that should fear piracy are those that make a shitty product. Nothing says "that thing is VERY good" like having pirates spend money to own it legally in a physical and digital format.
Daniel Fox, creator of Zweihander, was fired from Eldritch Automata for a reason... he's a horrible person at a whole, look up the thread
ZH has a Kickstarter going for its "Reforged" edition, which will cut about 200 pages of fluff. It looks like it will be super tight
No zweihander dev is a hack and I dislike him in general. Also he obviously stole from warhammer.
you could give the name a slightly more German pronunciation: tsvaihender. (The terminal R sounds almost like an H.) -Toby
I have been educated by several commenters. I really should have looked up the pronunciation, but I though I had been pronouncing it correctly!
I love Warlock!, but you have to get past the formatting problems and the bestiary is under-tuned as written. Is that a dragon or a large dog moment. But you can make more challenging foes if you prefer a more gritty game.
Thanks for the vid! Commenting for the algorithm 😎
Thank you.
Zweihander is made by a bully, so I have no interest in it. I have Warlock from a bundle and I didn't think it had grim dark aesthetics, should read through it.
What's the deal?
great info.....thanks
Love this video!
Love you taking the time to comment!
Looks very similar to The Witcher TRPG if we talking about mechanics.
great video, thx!
i want a hoodie, they can be send to méxico?
I do not know. I don't handle fulfillment.
Another great episode
Thanks!
Do these adventures take place in the Warhammer universe pre-Age of Sigmar or during? (I stopped playing Warhammer once AoS was released)
well done