Tollense - a bronze age battle?
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2017
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Archaeologists may have unearthed the first good evidence for a battle in the bronze age, in north-east Germany.
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Yes, I do look a bit glistening in this one. It was a warm day. This may hold the record for the longest sidetrack in any of my videos. Still, after a wander off into talk about Steven Pinker, and one of my old videos, I do eventually steer it back to the task in hand.
Buy the music - the music played at the end of my videos is now available here: lindybeige.bandcamp.com/track...
A Bronze Age battlefield? Weapons and trauma in the Tollense Valley, north-eastern Germany. Detlef Jantzen1, Ute Brinker1, J¨org Orschiedt2, Jan Heinemeier3,J¨urgen Piek4, Karlheinz Hauenstein5, Joachim Kr¨uger6, Gundula Lidke9, Harald L¨ubke7, Reinhard Lampe8, Sebastian Lorenz8, Manuela Schult8 & Thomas Terberger ANTIQUITY 85 (2011): 417-433.
More weapons and armour videos here: • Weapons and armour
Lindybeige: a channel of archaeology, ancient and medieval warfare, rants, swing dance, travelogues, evolution, and whatever else occurs to me to make.
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I was going to say that the mallet-like club reminded me of a shillelagh, but I forgot. I forgot to talk about hillforts as well. Consider yourselves lucky.
Lindybeige lol you great man :)
i do...
Battlefield, or graveyard of a highly warlike society?
Side note, this is what happens when I add a comment before watching the whole video. Thank you for reading this, traveling back in time, and telling your past self to address this question before I ask it.
Lindybeige what you talk about in interesting to me..and the mallets too.do what is the iron and bronze medals? at the same era??
Lucky? I would have loved to hear about hillforts and the nature of weapon evolution.
Breaks your heart knowing these poor men were slaughtering each other, when there were perfectly good frenchmen they could have been slaughtering.
Makes you wonder if there were bankers with little hats funding both sides as there has been the last three centuries of war.
bashpr0mpt Woah woah woah, we don’t talk about that in public
France had not been invented yet in the Bronze Age; and what happy times those were.
@@TheSecondVersion I bet they ate frogs all the way back then.
@Sage Brignac not really, because everyone eventually gets tired of their games and kicks them out. 109 and counting...
I'm eagerly awaiting the release of Call of Duty: Possible Warfare.
Call of Duty: Primal Warfare
Melchiah The Obscene imagine if battlefield beat them it
no no it must be Assassin's Creed: Bronzed
Battlefield 1200B.C. ?
yes and they'll have DLC like Fire and Ice
"You would be lying on your back, shouting , only in Bronze Age German."
Got me chuckling.
I'd like to propose that instead of a battle, there was a controversy at a bronze-age croquet or polo match and a violent fight broke out.
Hooligans
Growing up in my suburban neighborhood, we played touch football, basketball, and OTL/Indian Ball. The longest and loudest arguments involved croquet.
The upper sixth annual sports day was marked by violence when parents were involved in an altercation...
😂😂👏👏. Bronze Age croquet hooligans. Brilliant. I wonder if they had their chants “you’re going home in a red and white chariot”
Check out the poem: 'The Geebung Polo Club' - an Australian classic about just such a scenario.
"... he had 3 head wounds that had previously healed, what does this mean?"
-He never learned to duck, and helmets are extremely important pieces of equipment.
caveymoley could have been evidence of trepanning
Maybe he was a precursor to the British officer, and therefore, never ducked.
Maybe people tripple-tapped and they were bad at it?
Just goes to show the philosophy, "two in the head and you know they're dead" didn't come into use until after the advent of firearms.
maybe he had a helmet, ducked everytime, got hit anyway, because, you know, battles and stuff, and otherwise would've been dead on the first blow
After the third rock falling on my head I would quit mining and start a new career, maybe in the military.
Maybe that's what he did.
But then you dishonour your ancestors and anger the gods! Can't have that in your primitive mind! Have to be strong, like a horse! :D
You'd likely have the mental capacity of Forest Gump at that point, so you'd be perfect!
Made me laugh hearing some poor dude had 3 huge head injuries and survived them 😂
I've been hit in the head by more then 3 rocks and ive never even been in a mine... I'm just not very lucky
Don't use a magnet to rob an iron age museum, sounds like wisdom gained from experience.
Lool good one
That was a very specific example.
In Germany, arrows penetrate in metric! Good stuff!
Mackon, in USSR metric penetrates you.
@Tiny mod The Meter was adopted by the National Convention.Not Bonaparte.
@@arthurpozner7701 in France it was, yes. In Germany, to which the first comment referred, it was brought in by Bonaparte, at least into the confederation of the rhine.
And centuries later humans using feet landed on the moon. The measure used by navigation isn't metric either.
@@stevek8829 pretty sure NASA uses the metric system, as does the rest of the scientific community
A drunken horse fell on him from the roof. That's what really happened to him.
A drunken horse carrying a sack of flint arrow heads.
I though this was in germany not in poland.
I am just waiting for someone to get the reference
...next to a rocky riverbank
A drunk bull kicked a horse carrying a sack of flint arrowheads off a roof
We had a talk at school (about 20 years ago now) from an army engineer for careers day. He was in Papua New Guinea working on some humanitarian project and almost got to experience tribal warfare. About twenty young men from each tribe turned up on the football oval with spears ready to defend their honour, but then it rained so they all went home. For some reason that story stuck with me.
That's very interesting though because i think further ancient groups in PreEuropeans zones there had modes fighting like in some ways as the peoples that had been settled long ago in remote jungles !
Mostly it's all for show in new Guinea ..a bluff of sorts to demonstrate manliness
"Before the dark times." This had me actually laugh out loud alone at home.
Before the Empire?
lol .. "im gonna hit u so hard Even the archaeologists thousands of years from now will know what hit you.. " lol
Consider that lovingly ripped off
Boom roasted!
@@sarge-cp8yq eat shit
@@sarge-cp8yq only thing roasting are pigs on a blue line
@@BeeBait by pigs do you mean police?
A rounders bat and a croquet mallet? Perhaps it was a game of Brockian Ultra-Cricket.
Base Imperial perhaps indeed
that fellow with the triple head trauma must've been the ref
isn´t that played in higher dimentions only? :D
Base Imperial I think it was made from a y-shaped branch with the thinner part as the handle (probably bent).
Perhaps the mice got bored waiting to for humanity to think they'd invented maze experiments?
No swords - How about swords were valuable and were scavanged by the winners of the battle.
That's a real good point. If I'd knocked a swordsman dead with my grandfather's walking stick, I'd definitely take his sword.
spears and axes were most likely the most common weapons in this timeperiod (spears first and foremost). you naturally had a axe to chop your firewood among other things and spears were basicly a pole with a small pointy thingy made outta bronze at one end while swords were made out of a big chunk of bronze with the non-pointy part of the sword wrapped in small piece of wood and bronze was not cheap.
Or maybe this particular Bronze age people weren't advance enough to cast a sword, swords were only common then after 10th century BC -and they seem only be used by relatively advanced civilisation like the egypt's kopesh, indicating that they seem to be the one possesing the metalurgy and casting technology to make a proper sword, now bear in mind this happened in north germany in 12 Century BC, nowhere near any advanced civilisation.
@@pinochets1fan177 casting swords and smithing swords were very different processes
@@siliciaveerah9327 That is true, however due to the low melting temperature of bronze, swords of that material are cast, and then hammered afterward to forge harden the material. Iron and steel swords are forged to shaped due to the much higher melting temperature.
In contrary to what you‘ve said: Cut(marks) from Swords were discovered on the bones, but no swords. It is likely that the swords were collected after the battle, which is not that unusual.
Well of course why wouldn't you scavenge a battlefield
Actually, i assume that the chap with three headwounds WON those fights wherein he suffered them. You get wounded and your side loses, that's it, you're dead. Either finished by the victor as you lay bleeding on the battlefield, or left to die as all your friends are killed or routed. If you get wounded and your side WINS, now you've got a decent chance at getting the help you need. Hell, if you survive, you'll probably get good battlefield credits, too!
SmithMaximus - Actually, that's pretty much a myth. The times that it happened, like the killing of the French prisoners at Agincourt, it was recorded as an anomaly.
They may have been taken as slaves, but the wholesale slaughter of defeated armies? Doesn't do anyone any good.
Or it means he lost, but it was just a friendly brawl.
If you take a blow to the head sufficient to crack your skull, you've lost the fight. It doesn't matter how you spin it.
Sure maybe he was in the army and his fellows won and saved him. Or he was spared or it was rocks or a brawl. But he still lost.
If not comatose that guy would be a total idiot. Maybe they dragt him to the battle hoping it would wake him up.
@@amandasaint8513 sand peoples do it even today so why not
what if it was one guy and 37 skulls from his collection?
highlandrab19 well we can't rule that out
Skulls for the skull throne!
Blood for the blood god
Milk for the Khornflakes!
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
3:47 The 'mallet' club was most likely made in the same way the irish shillelagh was. You cut a blackthorn tree [or other hard durable wood] the trunk forms the head of the mallet and a branch you've cleverly cut the trunk either side of forms a handle that is organically part of the head and therefore way stronger than a carpentry joined one. Also blackthorn is very durable and hard... perfect for bashing things with ^^
The wooden club that he suggested was a Croquet mallet is actually a shillelagh, so this battle was between the home team Germany and the away teem the Irish.
You're telling me about Pinker's book (The Better Angles of our Nature) The print is minuscule and over 1000 pages.
My favourite piece of info in the book was the trick that nations use to recruit soldiers for a war.
Just tell everyone that it will just be a skirmish and all over before Christmas.
Just once I want them to find an ancient battle in Canada and they dig up primitive hockey sticks.
boiling maple syrup would be nasty actually thats stuffs like tar or pitch
Ahaha 'xaaaactly! :)
Give it a few thousand years. Archaeologists will dig up a hockey rink to curiously shaped clubs helmets and protective padding and, wrongfully, assume this must be some sort of gladiatorial arena where men beat each other with clubs whilst sliding on ice. So basically, a normal game of ice hockey.
I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out.
Underappreciated comment from Mr. Beagle.
20:35 "As for dating.." - Aren't they a little far gone for that?
SteveM you're never too old ...
Age is just a five-digit number.
nyuck nyuck...
Mistah Susan your only as old as you feel
oh very good
I'm actually really impressed with the way a reference gracefully segued into an advertisement.
"Tribal warfare is really nasty."
Explains quite a bit of what's going on nowadays.
Even more so now...
It's all tribal if you break it down enough
If you see this post would you be willing to muse that even in very old Mesopotamia there were forms of tribal patterned like head hunting of trophy skulls way back ..?
"perhaps his horse fell on him" - lindybeige 2017
Yeah he said it like 5 times. He must really believe firmly in this horse theory, and want us to also believe.
It could happen, let's say he's leading his horse on slippery terrain and the horse loses its footing and falls on him
Henry VIII’s horse fell on HIM.
@@gfoog3911 or he falls in battle by his horse dying on top of him (although if I remember correctly horses weren't used that much in combat back then)
When horses were used in battle or ridden hard in difficult terrain, this was not exactly uncommon. It was sort-of like death or serious injury in a car accident before cars had the safety features they have today.
"They're embedded in metric over there"
Oh, Loyd ^^
Yet the lengths of the clubs are still in inches...
Clearly then, the clubs must have been imported from Britain. Quite the trade back then!
Whether it's embedded in metric or inches, it still hurts like the dickens.
8:08 my future archaeologist would spot my broken toebones wich healed wrong, my broken teeth and probably sigs of a broken wrist
i hope they go "he must have been a fighter" and not realise that i was just too drunk in my twenties
I'm sorry to hear that you fell off your horseless-carriage
Holy shit...
Posting from an excavation in Israel - this stuff is great! Having spent the last three weeks digging down to - and articulating - a Roman plaster floor, this is fascinating stuff.
Did not see that audible plug coming till it was too late.
it was the most smooth transition to a advertisement that i said...."well lets hear him out."
Boofy my nigga got me too!!! Was about to exit the video too lol
He needs to be careful there. The UK Advertising Standards Authority say that adverts must be clearly distinguishable from editorial content.
He really got me.
As Ralphie from the Christmas Story would say... "A crummy commercial?!?! .... Son of a Bitch!"
You are genuinely my favourite UA-cam, no drama no dumb stuff you're just polite, well read and make great content
Genetically - the victims at Tollense were like modern Germanics Celtic and Slavic peoples. Indicates travel from afar
It was Nordic, Poles and Italians. No Germans blood there, thats why after taking 10% of all what is there, they stopt hehe. But its not unusual, coz till Chroby lands what is calling now Bawaria and Saksonia was belong to Polish ppl.
@@bard8689 It was like i wrote. Coz moste those Germans came in big migration 400-600+. So the wasnt here and those lands till Chrobry was belong to Polish ppl. Berlin was build by Poles. So those was Nords :)
@@bard8689 But Gots came from lands what are calling now Maroco and no one know what they was doing there. Coz they didnt know how to write. This gens show clyrly it was Poles, Nordic and Italians.
@@kacperkaminki2015 italians germans and poles? Are we talking about time travellers? since none of exstided yet.
@@Kenshiroit Names, but same ppl.
In my geezerhood I want the recipe for "Good Sustaining Soup".
24min talking in one take with no hickups or anything. You, Sir, are really really good at this.
That was the best, least-cringy segway into a sponsorship I've ever seen. I love it.
I found you a couple of weeks ago as a result of the Quarantine and I’m such a fan. Can’t stop watching! You’re awesome. Thank you for being you!
I came here to hear you pronounce Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and you never did it...
Can you pronounce that???
@@Kenshiroit its easy
@@Kenshiroit Mecklenburg-Vorpommern it's not that hard
Obviously they found an awesome old club at the river, and 5 people said:"I saw it first!"
Those with partially healed injuries might have been wounded prisoners who were just killed after a few days, as well.
or the marauders came back and killed them in their huts while they were healing.
Or enemy soldiers finally prevailed some time after the 1st battle and killed the wounded - probably, they weren't fit to be taken as slaves
That one is less likely since a slave would probably deserve no more than a knife in a throat/belly/heart. No one would bother crushing his bones like that to ensure his death.
Most likely they died of infection perhaps a few days later after recieving the injury.
Generally speaking, unless you were known to be of any value, you would not be spared. That practice persisted to about the 17th century A.D. It does cost to keep prisoners.
Almost 600k subscribers, good for you man. Keep the good content up!
You make learning and listening so much fun. Thank you Lindybeige!
Clothes are just boneless armor
David Schmidt or he's from a nation where the u has been dropped, like the US.
David Schmidt Aha, you almost fooled me into making an I'll advised decision by replying angrily to your obviously humorous jab at American English ( of which I am a native speaker ).
Can I get a uuuuhh 🅱️oneless armour
Cnt makes no sense?
Eduardo Moreno where u from that uses bone as amour u damn Neanderthal!
Slightly healed injuries: The winner of a knife fight gets to die in hospital.
Never make the mistake of bringing a knife to a knife fight
the first ever Lindybeige Video I ever watched. liked the academic feel of it and subscribed. since then I learned a thing or two. thanks, great channel.
Never fails to amuse as well as inform. Love this channel...
Thats probs the best ad in a youtube video ever.
A couple of worse possibilities that should have been considered about partially healed wounds mixed with unhealed ones:
Torture and human sacrifice.
Best comment
Human sacrifice gets such a poor shake. Have you me the Jims? I work with them and they are just the worst. They heat tuna in the microwave, always fail to return borrowed pens and insist on talking to me about their children! Honestly life with them was terrible, but then I read about human sacrifice and how the gods could help. So now my work life is much less distressing. Over all I’d recommend giving it the old college try before you knock it!
Yes because warriors only fight one time???
Informative and highly entertaining. I look forward to your videos.
that was probably the best audible ad ever created. kudos to you
The German farmers were trying out the deadly iro- i mean, bronze lotus technique for the annual Morris dancing competition.
Dark times?? Your head is shining more than ever!!
metric times.
I interpret this as a bald joke.
HERESY you imposter
I love the ending. He has such a brilliant comedic timing, with that short pause, giving the face and "that'll do the job".
For some reason in my head when im hearing you is almost like im hearing John Cleese, maybe its the english accent or the subtle humor, in any case its very captivating. Thank you for all the effort and hard work you place in all your presentations.
I think that bronze swords are more likely to be found in graves than on a battlefield. Especially in bronze age central and north europe. I mostly saw them in rather "wealthy" grave context. Probably just a limited number of people had them. If someone with a bronze sword fought in a battle and died than its very likely that he is taken with his sword from the battlefield or someone took his sword because it was very valuable.
Probably sword were just a sign of status and the wealthy fought mostly with spears and axes. At least that is what you can find in their graves.
honestly im surprised we find as many swords as we do, considering their value as weapons and status symbles i'd find it likely that even their own kin would likely steal a sword from ole badass king grandpa's grave
also fact about bronze if your bronze sword breaks you can have it reforged(aka recast) with no loss of metal not so much with iron infact its not so much that iron is better(early iron was the same as bronze) its the fact that iron is more common and well yeah you only need iron to make iron weapons and tools, whereas with bronze you need copper and tin and tins the real bitch to get
@@noahmiller8042 casting and forging are two different things
@@tecraman8100 im aware and i even made that disctinction
i don't agree with the swords "were just a sign of status and the wealthy fought mostly with spears" is nonsense. If swords were just fancy decoration that would not have been as common in the Bronze age across cultures. Most likely they were not common enough to that every soldier could have them so most had clubs, spears, axes etc.
your audible sponsorship techniques are getting better every video
one of the few UA-camrs I'm happy to listen to the sponsor sections
This video has ( and I say this in a world where advertising is ever present and usually terrible ) quite possibly the greatest and most seamless use of advertising I’ve come across in a very long time.
Well done Beigy! Top class material as always!
Love your channel. I think the levels of violence is really unknown and probably varies incredibly by tome and place.
Incidentally we talked about the findings at Tollense in our Bronze Age lecture today. The research from 2015 (which I haven't looked at personally...) seems to indicate, that the combatants weren't just locals, but from the south and east too. Maybe the around Poland or the Czech Republic if you go by the type of bronze arrowheads that were found.
Good stuff!
Now that makes one wonder. Could be signs of long distance tribal raiding (the logistics would be nightmarish) or possibly signs of a bronze age trade network. I could be wrong though.
Thing is many dont realize that slavs inhabited germany in those times and germans were in fact west of the slavs, who they then systematicaly pushed out over time. The idea I heard was that there was some sort of major conflict and that slavs from the lechite kingdom, which should be in air quotes because this is a MASSIVE speculation to have existed, came in as mercanaries to fight a battle, which is not unheard of in the past. Or possibly to cooperate defensively somehow. The size of the battle demonstrates that this was no simple raid or a raid at all but rather two relatively massive forces clashing with each other. (Avars also used slavic mercanaries when they were still in europe).
Generally speaking this confirms the idea of early slavic and germanic settlement across germany, east being slavic and west being german, it also confirms that these were not any stone age primitives and I dont think those were clubs... that were shown there. Rather they had the capacity and did colonize and had some sort of civilization and structure allowing them to field that many men, and to fathom the logistics of it. Its quite amazing really, getting anything done with 100 people is a nightmare, imagine in the past with little to no instant communication!
@@MsMi321We don't really know anything about the ethnicity of the cultures that lived there back then. Slavs are proven to have lived there much, much later, but 1230 BC? No one has the slightest idea how those people were related to the various ethnicities of later periods.
And/or mercenaries. We know the people at the same time with writing hired people from remarkably far away to fight for them. Pharoah's took mercs from the modern Sudan to fight in modern Syria. @@brianhowe1982
I have the explanation: Between the times when the Oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!
too true, too true
I re-watched that movie like 3 hours before I read this comment ^^
Conan's way leading him from Aquilonia to eastern Germany? Quite a setback for a wandering warrior is it not?
@@phreakazoith2237 Looking at Howard's maps, Aquilonia may well BE eastern Germany.
The more you know. Thanks. I did not know about Howard's deep thoughts concerning the geography of his stories.
Fantastic transition to Audible, congratulations
I like your style...very quick and interesting and to the point.
Lloyd! Your skin is turning darker! :O
Are you now finally transforming from brittish to greek? XD
"Hoplitebeige"
I hate myself for laughing at this -_-
Have to agree this is funny...
AARG! (Except in Bronze Age German)
This is well done! I'm an archaeologist, and really enjoyed the talk
Very good job: interesting, entertaining, upbeat and too the point.
Maybe not a battle, but a keg party that got out of hand?
I've been to some shindigs that have turned out pretty great like that.
that reminds me of the Battle of Karánsebes, where Habsburg troops fought one another resulting in 1200 casualties, and it was all started with a keg party
@@Dylfunkle It was an ancient orgy where they bashed their heads and continued to scull fuck each other.
Very interesting. I happen to live not that far away from the Tollense river in the town of Greifswald. And I think in the local museum called Vorpommersches Landesmuseum are some some of the bronze items found there. When I have some free time I definetly go to check it out. Keep up the good work!
I have watched your pilot good Lindy and have to say even then ye had the charm of an orator. 👍👍 :)
@10:06 "well we dont know that he could have got drunk and fell off a roof"
I like that the first thing that comes to mind is drunken buffoonery.
I thought German clubs just went 'oonz oonz oonz oonz tiss oonz tiss oonz"
Not the bronze age ones, though.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. They've just switched real percussion for synthesizers.
boots an' pants an' boots an' pants an' boots an' pants
"I'm not a man to use the word like oodles lightly."
Well, I'am very glad I sat down and listened to you. Very happy I viewed your work (well done Sir.). Sounds like it was a battle to me!
What did you say Lindybeige? Bashed each other in the face with wooded clubs?
OH I"am hiding my face with my hands now. Oh dear, OH DEAR!!!!!
I really appreciate your style of advertisements!
Are you alright lindy? having to use the metric system like that must have been traumatizing.
bearlyrandom
He's English and we use the metric system?
He was probably talking about when the studies were conducted but the thing is we adopted the metric system in 1965?
Probably still in shock from the recent armour fitting.
Turns out the armourer works in metric.
TGpoppins while that is true quite a lot of the time (tending towards most) we don't actually use it.
How the fuck is the imperial system more useful for physics when you can convert units in metric?
In metric, one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade-which is 1 percent of the difference between its freezing point and its boiling point. An amount of hydrogen weighing the same amount has exactly one mole of atoms in it.
Now tell me how the inferior imperial system is better for anything.
3:50 right one is analog to Irish Shilkelagh
Yes, I was going to say that and forgot.
From what i understand that style of club was common in a lot of europe untill quite recently, for example a similar style of club can be seen in roman mosaics
All this talk of head wounds must have left you with some psychosomatic memory loss, eh Lloyd?
Honestly that style of shillelagh is mainly a tourist thing. The ones from the old faction fighting era seem to just be sticks or sticks with a knob on the end, not mallet shaped.
HAH! I heard about the event elsewhere and dug up this very paper. It wasn't until I got a bit deeper into the research when I found your video. good video, thanks.
15min in and I laughed so hard. Love the content!!! Never stop please!!!
i love the transition to the advertisement
A point about "Built for the Stone Age" pilot series: It's freaken awesome!
Used your link on Audible, and have recommended friends over the years. Thank you, interestingly most of the titles I've bought are from the Great Courses series.
This is a great video. You're a fantastic educator. Thank you.
It wasn't specifically the climate getting colder, which directly caused sudden spikes in resource scarcity (i.e. food) for ancient populations, driving them elsewhere into others' territory. The cold caused swaths of dryer climate which, in turn, meant less rainfall. More cold = drought.
I recall seeing such cold-induced dry spells being cited as the primary cause for numerous past societal migrations, upheavals, and waves of invaders. The pre-historical expansion of the Sahara desert due to such long-term continental scale drought. Which ended up pushing north african people to the coast, and especially into the Nile river valley, thus creating the population density needed to start the ancient Egyptian empire.
As another example, it's also been cited as the cause for the collapse of the Mayan civilization from it's long drought. There are other examples of such increasingly dry weather, due to colder regional climates in the "mini ice ages", causing swaths of people to pick up and move. Sometimes resorting to violent migrations (quite possibly the reason for the Sea People invasions of the Bronze Age Fall).
Food supply was all; both wealth & weakness. Being far more violent times, it makes perfect sense that tribes would go where the food is, if their current location didn't have any. Doing so by force if need be. Sometimes causing a chain reaction of violent migrations.
You should make a Podcast
Lind the sarcasm and roasting ability is admirable
Lindy can do his sponsor trasitions so good that I couldn't notice that it would start until the last possible moment
Nice how you fit the audible ad in ^^
I enjoyed this discussion about audible, sponsored by an ancient battlefield
That has got to be the smoothest transition into a commercial rant I've ever seen 😄
You are one of these people that can make history (a topic some might presume to be somewhat boring) sound exciting. It’s the weird kind of English humour that does it I think. You are a natural teacher. I wish there were more people teaching children in this way. Making the subject interesting and fun. It is probably your immense love for all things ancient that makes you you 😄. I’m so glad I found your channel and have been learning about tennis last video.
I have enough marks on my bones that an archeologist who may uncover me in a thousand years will know I'm an idiot.
Tim, the 'toolman' Taylor ?
There is also the book "War Before Civilization," that makes some of these points. First that war was quite common in ancient times, to the point that it was a constant threat. Secondly that deaths in combat were a much higher proportion of the population than today. Indeed if a tribe were to handily lose just a few battles they might be too weakened to survive as a unit. There are other points as well, just that for every skeletal wound we see there were likely many more soft tissue wounds, especially to the gut, that would leave no trace, so the number of violent deaths are probably undercounted.
It also makes the point that some scholars in the early 1900s set the bar high for what counted as "war." Essentially they applied them modern methods of war to primitive societies and if they didn't measure up, it wasn't really war. That is they considered that if a people didn't have a dedicated command and control group, logistics capable of extended campaigns, a medical corps, maybe cavalry, then they weren't a real military and they weren't engaging in war. Sure. Tell that to all the tribesmen going out on raids against their neighbors who were poaching on your turf, something that happened quite often, that they aren't engaged in war activities.
I have a book, called "Krieg im Mittelalter", or "War in the Middle Ages" or something like that in english, I don't know, mine is in german. The germans had no word for war until the 30 years war. The word itself comes from "kriegen", meaning to get something. You could say that the looting was so bad in that conflict, that they named war after looting. But it was concluded that war could only happen between nation states and professional troops. Every other kind of conflict was called Fehde, the german word for feud. In the middle ages they made a difference between the feud between kings who called their sworn subjects for help, and the feud between two knights. The smal and the big feud.
Perhaps that's the same with england. I don't know. But on that base, I could argue that there was no war in germany during the middle ages. Because it was personal conflict. Even if the persons were kings.
Even though it would just seem later but if with a shorter altered chronology 2200 bc was ancient enough . Then in early bronze age Mesopotamia there was the great battle long lssting involved between city of Uruk and a legendary place called by the Sumerians Aratta mentioned as in their texts on tablets . This battle in theory would help define what later weapons would be invented or just used when people were spreading out or migrating further out in several directions with the Middle East being the 'capitol' zone of civilization basically..
@@joemeyers4131 By ancient times I meant even further back, such as hunter gatherer times. The book talked about evidence of wounds on skeletons from far back as well as modern evidence from hunter gatherer tribes that existed up into the 1900s. War in terms of raids, ambushes, and encounters seemed to happen a few times per years with larger battles less frequently.
@@Thane36425 if you are not wanting to or just not the thing . If you dropped your box for a bit ss not in that box figuratively.. follow me .. prejudices and biases aside can you read in bible Job 30: 1 to 8 . I know people staunchly think it's mythical or made up but if you hesrd Job was written not in around 300 bc if claimed but at least by 4500 bc or bce and so if u read the 8 vs passage and none can see that anyway of course your business there .. read the verses slowly and carefully . Put aside your college degreed know how enouth tonhave an open mind ( i know basic college teach evolution so i got that ! ) but entertain the vss a bit . Based from civilized ancient society as you look at it enough . There was an old sociery by 2300 BC and earlier as known . So start from there at Job 30 verse one ..
@@Thane36425 I add that to view it comparing how the most primitive like bands or clans live in any far off wilderness / word there is 'wilderness ' a tractless or uncultivated or barren or endless tree filled land ..can be in Hebrew . Places off from ancient communities further outwards in formerly unsettled regions with raw simplified resources .. caves or dry valley or rain washes . Or older remoter WADIS . Potential shelters or hide aways or oases or edges of wet tropical monsoonal regions ..
Quality Work... Sir.
That intro. Best 10 seconds of UA-cam in a while.
The world has come to a new low, when someone tells you "You can even share a book with a friend!" ...
I'd like to see Lindybeige and Dan Carlin have a chat with each other.
I would like to see it, but not sure if i have that much time.
Lloyd, I watched your stone age video a few years back. Now you know, someone has seen it. Huzzah!
The smoothest audible plug ever
The question of where swords would've gone after the battle may lie in the fact they would've been a commodity probably a rare one if I were the commander of the winning side I'd order them to be collected
GOOD VIDEO WELL PRESENTED EVENTS AT THE PEAK OF THE MINOAN WARM PERIOD WHEN TEMPERATURES STARTED TO FALL AND EMPIRES FELL ALL OVER THE WORLD
An interesting video. Well explained information!
Another excellent video... Many thanks for posting such interesting , entertaining and informative content....and damn funny at times ;)