Massad Ayoob - Fit vs Feel - Finding the best gun for your hands. - Critical Mas Ep 65
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- Опубліковано 18 лип 2023
- Massad Ayoob shares the difference between fit and feel. What feels great in the gun store, might not perform well in the field. He also offers a few tips along the way. Massad shares his personal journey of to find the right fit.
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Critical Mas(s) with Massad Ayoob is a show that provides expert analysis over a wide range of contemporaneous topics related to civilian and law enforcement self-defense, the use of force, and second amendment issues, provided by a renowned and established author with a career spanning decades in training law enforcement officers and the public at large, who is frequently called upon to provide expert witness testimony.
ABOUT MASSAD AYOOB:
Massad Ayoob has been handgun editor of GUNS magazine and law enforcement columnist for AMERICAN HANDGUNNER since the 1970s and has published thousands of articles in gun magazines, martial arts publications, and law enforcement journals. He is the author of some twenty books on firearms, self-defense, and related topics, including “In the Gravest Extreme” and “Deadly Force,” widely considered to be authoritative texts on the topic of the use of lethal force.
The winner of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award in 1998, Mas has won several state and regional handgun shooting championships. Ayoob was the first person to earn the title of Five Gun Master in the International Defensive Pistol Association. He is the current President of the Second Amendment Foundation. He served 19 years as chair of the Firearms Committee of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers, and several years as a member of the Advisory Board of the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association. In addition to teaching for those groups, he has also taught
for the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors and the International Homicide Investigators seminars.
Mas has received judicial recognition as an expert witness for the courts in weapons and shooting cases since 1979, and served as a fully sworn and empowered, part-time police officer for 43 years, mostly at supervisor rank. Ayoob founded the Lethal Force Institute in 1981 and served as its director until 2009, and now trains through Massad Ayoob Group. He has
appeared on CLE-TV delivering continuing legal education for attorneys, through the American Law Institute and American Bar Association, and has been retained to train attorneys to handle deadly force cases through the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Ayoob served for two
years as co-vice chair of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He also appeared in each episode of Personal Defense TV (Sportsman’s Channel).
#MassadAyoob #WilsonCombat #CriticalMas - Спорт
Massad Ayoob is a national treasure
Yep.
Thanks, and that Glack 30 was replaced by a Springfield Ronin. Kept the 45 ACP cal. over 9mm just cause I like it. 9 45's instead of 13.
We need to archive all of his videos to make sure they don't disappear forever once some crazy lunatic declares him a gun terrorist or a racist for no reason and spams reports. Or UA-cam adds another insane anti-gun policy.
Please notice me senpai
As are his distal joints.
Mr. Ayoob, I remember reading your articles as a teen back in the '80s. I'm glad to see you looking healthy and fit. Thank you for the many decades of fine content.
Ayoob is the Man...
He does look very fit for a legend of his age. I wonder how old he is.
@@gokuryu Hes 75.
That arthritis on his hand though.....😲☹
Dont catch him without a hat on a windy day 😅
For years, this man was pure to the point info and no nonsense.
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Another lesson from the master teacher.. more please
Retired Army (31yrs combat arms), I agree 100%. For soldiers, they have to adapt. For a civilian, you need to be comfortable.
Agreed sir, and thanks for your service ✊🏿
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The old commercial… When E.F. Hutton speaks people listen.
When Massad Ayoob speaks
shooters listen. Videos are always good, but in my opinion I think this is the best one to date.
Thank you Massad.
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Thanks Mas. Very true words. Feels good at the store, shooting is quite different. The first joint. Yes, for some people. I am one. I learned about this back about 1982. A friend who was a competitive shooter said let's go to the range. I had had some shooting issues, not doing what I thought I could. He suggested I try that first joint on the trigger finger. I have never changed since! It made a HUGE difference. I was in the Army and went through the change over to the M9. Wow. I could not get the weapon into the webbing of the hand right and get my index finger to get enough trigger. The rest of my service we had the M9, so I cheated, incorrectly, by rotating my hand towards the trigger guard in order to get that joint on the trigger. I qualified expert but have never fought a gun so hard in my life. I KNEW what I was doing was wrong but through brute force made the expert qual score. It was important on many levels. Senior people need to perform in all categories. I caught a lot of grief on the firing range but after the results, it died away. It was not like I did not know what I was doing either. I grew up shooting handguns, a lot. That is a great point you made. Feel vs Fit! Yes. The old 1911A1, still and always will have a sweet spot in my safe. The G19 now is my carry gun, with an XS Big Dot set of sights.
2:20 "Leverage equals power. Power controls."
Love it.
Dude, in the military you don't have the luxury of choosing your "feel or fit", you adapt rather quickly and every other weapon afterwards is all good
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I've found ergonomics to be one of the trickiest things in gun handling because it's so personal that the best you can do is experiment or hope you can find someone with similar needs or preferences sharing specific information relevant to you. I am grateful that modularity has become so prevalent in handguns in particular; it's amazing how much impact simply changing the backstrap or using a different profile trigger shoe can have on your actual shooting performance, with only very slight changes in reach or dimensions.
I found that as one's grip technique (hopefully) evolves/changes over time instead of just sticking with habits one can outgrow a grip or having different grips based on the discipline's goals to have maybe a more bone structure involved grip e.g. quite static, zen like shooting for rings at further distance while a very aggressive friction based grip might be favoured for quick strings in dynamic, time stressed practical shooting.
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It's nice if you have friends who will let you shoot their guns. Changed the way I shoot different platforms over the years. Nicer if they're a good spotter, watch you, boom, calling it for you, rinse, repeat, and be open to suggestions
He truly is indeed a national treasure !!
This is a Man's Man.
I remeber watching massad vhs vids with my father as a little boy back in the early 90s. Now im a 40 year old man still watching him on a strange thing called youtube in 2023. Crazy! Keep giving the world gun knowledge, massad👊
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Massad is the absolute best.
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Any bodybuilder would tell you that the triggers start and end position is not the primary goal, it is how we move the trigger from the start and end position.
Bodybuilding has radically changed my understand of our physiology, and it's helping me a lot as I learn about firearms.
You rock masaad
This is the best practical explanation of fit and feel I have encountered. Excellent info.
Happy 75th Mas.
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What GREAT advice! Just because your favorite “GunTuber” uses X gun, doesn’t mean it’s the best gun for you!
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Makes 100% sense. With that said, we all should not be purchasing a firearm from Cabela’s, since they lock the trigger and you can’t size the pistol for fit.
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When the grip sleeves for Glocks started to get to be the rage, they “felt” good, but were actually responsible for changing enough grip characteristics to affect accuracy, me included. I remember one of mine, normally a mid-high 90s shooter who showed up to qualify and his scores dropped twenty points. Only thing that changed was the grip sleeve. I asked why he had installed it. He said he thought it looked cool. Took it off and performance increased back to where he’d been. Same with all the backstrap options a lot of popular double stacks now come with. You can tailor your pistol to “feel” good but range performance is final. My current carry, a P365 is taking some adjustment. I’m going to stick with it because it’s size, capacity, versatility, as well as trigger and out of the box sights are what I want in a concealed carry gun. It’s surprisingly accurate, but after a season this past week, let me know that I can’t slack off regular training. And sometimes visiting a professional, even when you’re a professional yourself is the Rx.
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30 years ago I had to decipher this information from his books alone..Where was UA-cam when I needed it.🤣🤣
Thanks for another informative and to the point video. I have been shooting for over 70 years, since my Dad taught me to shoot on the farm in the early 50s. I have acquired a very nice collection of handguns over the years and am now in the process of deciding which to pass on to my grandkids and which to simply move on to others. The topic of your video is exactly what I have been dealing with over the past couple of years. Taking each gun to the range and really analyzing how the trigger reach matches up with my hands. Due to arthritis the strength of my trigger finger has diminished and I have moved to using the distal joint just as you described. Oh what a difference that has made in which guns work well for me. Not surprisingly my Beretta 92s, of which I own six variants, have jumped to the fore. My range time is thought out to maximize practice while reducing ammo consumption. The fact that my hands tire after 50-75 rounds is a big factor. Yesterday I was able to place all the rounds in the magazine (15) of my Beretta LTT Compact into a 2 1/2 inch group in both of my last two rounds. (The first round showed my typical warmup with about three flyers to broad the group to 5 inches.). For an 80+ year old with shaky hands I felt pretty good about the day. That exemplified to me exactly what you said in this video. I have other guns I love, Sigs, Brownings, CZs etc. but the 92 just works great for me. Thanks again for a spot-on video.
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I paid class fees to get this information from captain Ayoob in person years ago....worth every penny!
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@@osbert750 I thought these scams were over.
Long time shooter and in complete agreement. I bought a couple of "mistake" guns and found out at the range I didn't shoot well with them. Find your gun based on your fit and feel and then find a rental to try that gun on the range before you buy.
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Happy Birthday Mr. Ayoob!!
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I am a power crease shooter myself. I know what you mean, I like the M&P semi auto hinged trigger because of this but also I like the feel of the pistol. Felt so good in it's stock configuration, but I wasn't that good with it. I put on the Large size backstrap insert which felt awful in my hand like a brick, but on the range I shoot it so good now.
yeah power crease on wheel guns and 1911's, but my Glock and Canik I like pad pull only because of the lighter trigger pull!
@@cigarsgunsandgasoline8032
Your Glock has a lighter trigger pull than your 1911’s?
Most production 1911’s are 3.5 to 5.0 pounds.
Massad Ayoob is a national treasure. I own a Luger, 1911's and a Beretta 92FS I find them fitting my hand best in that order and trigger control best in that order. I have a Ruger GP100. Since I put a Houge monopod grip on it I find it is the best fit for both my weak and strong hand.
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Thanks for another great lesson, Massad.
Thank you Mr Ayoob.
I've watched quite a few of Mas Ayoob's videos and this is the most practical, useful one I've watched. The points about fit, and trigger finger fit to the trigger shoe, are excellent. Some handgun triggers work well when pressed with the pad, some work better when using that "power crease." And some handguns won't let your hand and trigger finger wrap in the optimal way. Same can sometimes apply to rifle triggers, depending on the shape of the trigger shoe and type of shot intended.
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Excellent Video!
Great information as always. Thank you Mas.
So much wisdom, thank you
Thanks Mass!
One of the most knowledgeable gunners out there...Thanks.
Great advice, as usual. Thanks for sharing with everyone.
Great info, thanks
Thank you for the education.
great video as usual sir ty
Always great content, thanks
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Everything you said makes perfect sense. There's nothing like buyers' remorse after spending some time on the range!
As always words of wisdom
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Excellent video!
Thanks for that!
Exceptional,well-thought of presentation, delivered in clever and concise manner. Thank you, Critical Mas!
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I was a member/leader/trainer of military police SWAT teams. There is more to "fit" than your hand. What feels/fits me best these days is the S&W M&P 9 Shield EZ M2.0. Really. May not be the pistola du jour of SEALs and SWAT these days, but I know what works for me and how to work it. The Equalizer is the optics-ready high-capacity version. I don't need/want either of those upgrades.
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Thank you Mr Ayoob!
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Happy Birthday, Mas.
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It’s absolutely amazing, to me, that all of this content is free! Just Mr. Ayoob’s sage advice is worth so much. UA-cam and social media (plus Wilson Combat) have greatly enhanced every shooters ability to get quality instruction.
Thanks, Mas.
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Great tips! Thank you!
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I have a P95 that I have loved for years. Reliably shot everything I put through it including Winchester white box.
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Great video, great information. Thanks.
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The Best!!!
thank you so much
Excellent
Awesome!
THANK YOU !!! This is an important aspect to see when looking at purchasing a handgun, or when looking at competition performance/changing grip panels, etc.
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Nice job with the explanation. Thank you.
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well done. Form thought and feeling !
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After watching a number of your videos, especially some very old ones, I have a new respect for "gun control." No one should be allowed to have a firearm until they have watched your videos! I am frightened by how much I did not previously know even though I've used guns for more than 50 years.
I’m a small guy that grew up shooting double action revolvers. I had all my 1911’s long triggers swapped out for short triggers. Glocks fit me perfectly although I prefer the SAO trigger on my Sig Legion. All my revolvers have the Miculek grips that make all size S&W frames the same. What a brilliant idea. Nothing fits better than my Combat Commander.
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As usual, excellent info and a great presentation.
I first saw you when you gave a presentation at the Nashua Fish and Game club in Merrimack NH many, many moons ago. You had your daughter with you that night.
I don't remember anything about your subject(s), but I do remember to this day how impressed I was with your presentation and at the time, whatever your subject matter was.
All your presentations provide great content presented in the same even and measured tone as seen in this video. Some of us really, really appreciate that.
May the winds always be at your back and the sun always on your face........
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great advice.
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Had to qualify for a license- took out all six of my pistols to the range to see which I would score best with. To my surprise it was my full size steel frame .45 Beretta. Didn’t see that coming.
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For years compound bows sold with grips that felt great in the store, they were heavily contoured. Problem is that they create a lot of torque which destroys accuracy. It took decades for people to get with it, and for the companies to fit their bows with the correct grip. Up until they did, the most comfortable bow grips sold the most bows.
Thank you, Massad! It's funny -- the first training class I had, the instructor recommended the Beretta and I fell in love with the feel of that gun. I have big hands, long fingers, and it's a big, beautiful gun. But I wasn't shooting well. I switched to the Glock 19 and my shooting improved radically. It felt angular & uncomfortable, but I shoot better with it and that's the first gun I bought. Now, with your explanation, I finally understand, in detail, why.
Fit vs. Feel. It's a big deal. 🙂
Just wanted to give you an update on the video where you talked about chambered round, in handguns and ar-15.
I'm now number 32 of friends and family members on the reason you SHOULD NOT keep a round in the chamber of the AR-15. I felt it important to not only speak about this every chance I get. Back on the 4th of July/Family reunion with the mag and no round in the chamber. I showed everyone there as I Racked the empty weapon and dropped, (my AR-15), and then let them drop from around 4" off the lush grass outside or carpeting when indoors. What they found out, was the gun only has to be jarred a little to fire. "CLICK", it does not take much of a Jarring to fire a round off. The act of seeing and doing burns this into everyone's mind who heard the "Click", vs just telling them. Again Thank You for all your videos. You all have a great week. Bob Jackson Papillion, Ne.
It’s not the trigger that clicks. It’s the locked bolt moving forward.
Watch the video again.
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Love your videos kind sir! Thanks.. I'm a big Sig fan.. I worked at a range and shot many thousands of rounds and the Sig p228 which is what our local police used for a long time shot so well for me..
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God bless you guys 👍🇺🇸
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Thanks for your video !
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Very well said!
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Hey there Massad, great video sir! Good info and very educational. Concerning the trigger pull on pistols, I know for my own self that I prefer using the pad of my trigger finger when I am shooting vs. going all the way to the joint. I found that if I go to the joint then I tend to push my pistol to the side some. When I use just the pad of my finger then I find that I tend to pull the trigger straighter and my groupings are tighter too. Keep up the fine videos sir. And BTW, my edc is a 1911 Commander model that I absolutely love! It shoots plenty straight
Now the pad itself is still big. I currently prefer the area in the last third before the joint where there is less meat and a flat bone bit is pushes through.
Thank You Sir.
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@@osbert750 Good Morning Sir, I'm answering your Text. Thank You Sir.
Thank you
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right on both points
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@@osbert750 , no it's ok im good
Excelent video!! I have small hands (no really small for a guy). Double action semis just don't fit me at all. I hate the M92 - brick with a trigger!! After this video I can put words to what I've been thinking for years. Thanks!! Keep em coming!
My 2 favorite pistols are the Sig 229 and the Beretta 92. I find the feel and reliability of both to be equal. I use the 92 for 9mm and the 229 for 40S&W and 357sig. Great topic as usal 👍👍
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Thank you-and so I enjoy and seem to shoot my best with either a a Walther P99 or S&W M&P 9. The grip angle in my hands results in the sights naturally & organically lining up when I lift either one up (a little better with the S&W).
I could listen to this guy explain how to make poptarts. Thank you for the video.
IMO, a secondary consideration with a handgun, which is related to fit and feel, is whether when you have the pistol gripped in your hand it points naturally where you want it to point.
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As always Mr. Ayoob fantastic video as with all Wilson Combat videos you always learn something, thank you so much for sharing your vast knowledge, I am very much looking forward to one of your classes, stay safe Sir. And God Bless.
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Always an outstanding video and presentation
Always learn something. Thanks for sharing your knowledge 👍
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Glad to have a pistol with adjustable back straps. Until I switched over to the large, one consistent problem I had was tightening fingers. After enlarging the grip I got a lot more consistent and shot groups were tighter.
As far as the butt stock on a rifle goes, couldn't agree more. We Zeroed slick at my Basic Officers Leader's Course, but definitely had to collapse the stock wearing the IOTV. SGLs yelled at us for it, but it worked better 🤷
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As usual and expected, Massad is spot on. This man is truely the expert amoung experts in his field. If I ever found myself in a court legal battle, he would be my first choice for my defense, along with Clint Smith.
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A few years ago, I went to a DA/SA CZ75 P01 as I really loved the way that pistol feels in my hands. Before that, I was a 1911 guy, then an XD45. Both felt good in my hand and I was able to use the pad of my finger easily as the SA trigger pull made it easy.
With the DA/SA, I had some problems with that first shot being accurate because it was about double the pull weight of the followup SA shots. I just wasn't sure the pistol was right for me, if I couldn't get more accuracy. It was during dry fire practice that I tried the distal joint and had the "Hallelujah" revelation. Since then, after more practice, the first shot from DA is now as accurate as the SA follow ups. It wasn't easy undoing years of muscle memory where that pad naturally came to rest on the trigger, though.
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So true
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When I carried a S&W Mod 19, had small factory grips with a Tyler T-grip, just felt like shaking hands with a tried and true best friend...........a Glock felt really good also, but the lack of a true safety always had an uneasy feeling when carrying.........then went to 1911 9mm, did not feel as good, but the safety factor felt better.....
I found the Beretta 96 grips the best for me. I have extremely large palms and moderately large fingers. The larger fatter grip felt like a perfect match. It allowed the lateral position of the barrel to line up with my arm.
Then I noticed I couldn't operate the magazine release with my trigger hand. Perfect fit didn't allow for perfect function.
Hi! Massad: Interesting subject. I agree, fit and feel is an individual thing. To me it is up to the individual to adapt his firearms to him/herself. My first pistol was a Ruger Blackhawk. I truly hated the factory thin grip panels. I made my own. The first ones lacked some wood-metal fit. But I eventually made a truly thick pair out of walnut with good wood-metal fit. Finger grooves, and they filled my hand. And the power of the .357 mag was controlled. But looking back now, I could easily redo them into a fully acceptable better fitting pair, just by removing some wood here and there.
I adapted what I learned to later Ruger Single-sixes.
But I also eventually got into Smith & Wessons. There I took the factory target grips, and filed off the checkering, and changed the shape some, even adding finger grooves on the left panel. I started out on a M48. I think modified factory target grips, done my way, should be standard on Smith & Wessons.
Then I got a stainless M29 (629? I forget the number). I did the same thing there with the factory target grips and finger grooves.
Then back to a Ruger Security Six. I had no factory grips to fit my needs. I started out with two blocks of wood, and inlet the grip frame into the wood. I shaped the wood by feel. I ended up with a pair of grips a lot like what i did for the Smith & Wessons, including finger grooves.
When I go out to do some shooting I truly find it hard to choose between the Smith & Wesson (629?) or a Ruger Security Six. Both fit and feel perfect, and are a real pleasure to shoot.
You mentioned long arms, and I was going to skip over that. But then I remembered I have a Remington 600 .308. The factory forearm was boxy and uncomfortable. I took a file to the checkering and boxed shape. I made it a very simple rounded forearm. Much more comfortable to carry and shoot.
I can't imagine how anyone who doesn't know how to work with their hands could find satisfaction, other than by trial and error. Which is what relying on someone else's fit and feel is.
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Thank you, and yes, this was helpful for me, because double stack, or Glock, or Smith and Wesson (did not work for me). 1911s, did, and that's what I went with.
Right on.
I have small hands, and a short trigger finger, it is anoying that with every new 1911 I have to replace the trigger with a shorter one. Fortunately, that is not hard.
Maybe some of the new SIGs are better but every one I tried had a stupid long trigger reach.
You can mitigate that by rolling your hand around the grip to give you more reach to the trigger but that reduces the power of your grip. But I think, with the isosceles grip/stance (vs the Weaver stance) that may help with trigger reach and keep a good grip by using both hands to grip the pistol.
I'm no expert, but that is the way it seems and may a reason some PD's taught the isosceles stance as it gave smaller officers, with smaller hands a better chance to have a better grip on the pistols used at the time. (during the transtion to the "wonder nines")
A reason Bill Jordan could shoot the N frame S&Ws so well was he had huge hands. There is a picture of his hand with a quarter in it. It looked like a dime in our hands.
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Love my WC365 grip time will tell if it will help with accarcy but so far it carries better feels better in the hand and more recoil control helps out
A video about Mass’s duty weapons over the years would be cool.
I gravitated in 90s glock 23/19 I still love them. Carry was little bulky. When I found 365XL. It was a new love. I have smaller hands so I think this just falls into my hand perfectly.. If you hold each one out one handed. Take the other hand and put some force on the front end and push to your left. See which one firmly stays in a good grip compared to say the g23 gen2 wanting to roll slightly out of your palm. I can shoot the g23 just fine. But the XL stays firmly in Palm place. Which is needed in stressful situations in my opinion. The longer slide gives it a 1911 slide feel being longer and slim. Though 1911 doesn't really fit me. And I also have a p90 with Kurt custom stainless guide rod.
I’ve got to admit this is partially why I like Glocks. I know most people say they have a horrendous grips and all of that but with me having rheumatoid arthritis some thing about that grip and grip angle actually fits better.
I don’t mind the Glocks either! Not my favorite handgun but for me, Glock isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.
I particularly dislike the grip feel and angle on the Glock even though I am thinking of picking up a 30SF as a concealed option. One of my favorite feeling in hand is an old Ruger p-95 DC I have. The trigger finger reach is near perfect. Glocks are nice but definitely something not suited for some.
Always a pleasure getting information for Ayoob. My favorite pistol the last 2 years was the Taurus. I now have 3 G2C and 1 G3C, a single stack Slim/PT709. The thing I like the best is the striker fire that allows multiple pulls and hits on the cartridge. This only helps because during the "primer shortage" in 2020-22, the only thing I could find were rifle primers. You can only imagine: Pull the trigger - no boom! Pull again - Nope! Then the next pull BANG. Great learning experience and trigger control for those that get the pre-fire nerves. This is about learning to always have a stead hand, even if the weapon does not fire. Just thought this would help.
Do you own any other handguns besides Taurus? They do the job for what they are made to do but I can think of many other handguns much better in many other ways than a G2C.
I was fortunate to have access to an honest gunshop and not just a group of people looking to make sales. Instead of picking up a Glock that sits terribly in my hand because Glocks are just what people buy, they put multiple other pistols in front of me to handle and take out to their indoor range. One of the guys even let me try his personal carry pistol right off of his hip holster.
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