No Code App Development is a Trap

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  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,2 тис.

  • @pythonantole9892
    @pythonantole9892 5 місяців тому +356

    One advantage of no code tools is that it has created many jobs. I'm a freelancer and about 20% of my gigs todays are in fixing or rebuilding apps that were built using no code tools. It's either it doesnt work as expected, or some function stops working because the client forgot to renew some subscription or that the no code provider no longer exists. The more no code tools they release the happier i am.

    • @kelvinleigh
      @kelvinleigh 4 місяці тому +6

      I suspect that is the case with many (most?) no-code platforms. To really do something meaningful you need to pay for "special" components.

    • @theconsul8452
      @theconsul8452 4 місяці тому

      @pythonantole9892 I am a freelance Social Media Manager and I was thinking of learning a No Code development tool called "Webflow" to increase my range of services and get some projects in this domain.......Any advice ?

    • @general_paul
      @general_paul 4 місяці тому +19

      ​@@kelvinleigh fun fact: most of the special components can be recreated by fully functional human fingers with fully functional keyboards

    • @laconsultant
      @laconsultant 3 місяці тому +3

      How do I find you.

    • @fontomfrom
      @fontomfrom 3 місяці тому +2

      😂

  • @xtactic
    @xtactic 5 місяців тому +483

    I have NEVER, in 18 years developing products, found a no code platform that we didn't have to go and develop components, customisation, special parameters, you name it. PoC? OK. Go ahead with no code. Simple landing page or personal site? OK as well. My personal experience with any use case other than these ones is bad!

    • @PhilLesh69
      @PhilLesh69 5 місяців тому +21

      No code is like foam board, an exact knife and elmers glue for architects. I
      You build scale modeks, not production code with it. Nobody builds a building using the same materials and techniques they used to build the demo model. No code is for a rapidly developed mock up.

    • @dvhh
      @dvhh 5 місяців тому +6

      Slightly longer career, but a lots of IDE a very close to no-code experience, I think the closest I got was with MS Access, of course as mentioned customization is non existent.
      Moving forward, Dreamweaver generated rather ok code, and from a very superficial point of view, a good no-code experience (but still flawed and open to a lot of vulnerabilities).
      Of course these are rather old experience, web and application landscape have vastly changed, and expectations have also changed (for the better).
      My take would be that no-code/low code should help get you kickstated in learning more code, reducing the amount of boilerplate code.
      The problem pointed out in this video, is that these no-code platform did not account for some degree of play nor customization, or customization that is so obscure that it requires a very high level of skill.
      I have some interest in low-code platform that help you with the boilerplate code and offer a way to connect your interface and your customized logic.

    • @BillClinton228
      @BillClinton228 5 місяців тому +16

      This is also why AI will not replace programmers, it can generate some simple code but enterprise grade applications are pretty complex with a lot of business focused nuances.
      I know everyone has bought into the AI hype, just like they bought into the Blockchain and Big Data hype. But crypto hasnt replaced world wide fiat currencies and AI will not replace complex programming jobs as easily as our corporate overlords want to believe.

    • @hopelessdecoy
      @hopelessdecoy 5 місяців тому +2

      I think the real issue with no code is the spaghetti. I mean sometimes with libraries you still have to make custom components because it just doesn't do exactly what you need but libraries are not generating custom code behind them.

    • @quantum5768
      @quantum5768 5 місяців тому +8

      @@BillClinton228I'm glad I've finally found someone else that sees AI the same way as me. It all stems for the 80/20 rule, you spent 20% of the time getting something to 80% ready, then 80% of the time to get that last 20%. It's super easy to make a prototype, it's really difficult to make it work 99.9% of the time. Coding isn't hard, problem solving is, most of what software engineers do is the problem solving part, which AI/no code can't do for you.

  • @KenSakal
    @KenSakal 3 місяці тому +244

    As a “founder” the goal is to validate there is demand for the idea or solution as quickly and as inexpensively as possible. This can and should be accomplished with no code tools. If 90% of all the functionality was complete, and there was a true demand for the product, there should be no problem onboarding the first 15% of the target market. This 15% will be enough to validate the idea and raise your first round of funding. Then you will have the money to pay for a scalable version of the application. Don’t fall into the trap of building a scalable version of an app for an idea that has not been validated. Good luck!

    • @zuest696
      @zuest696 3 місяці тому +4

      Much agreed, im a big fan fan flutterflow and i can tell, they are moving in correct direction and they really care about making their platform solve the "no code platform issue". i beleive in the coming years flutterflow will become even better then what it is at the moment.

    • @gagansuie
      @gagansuie 3 місяці тому

      by far the best answer here. FlutterFlow is a brilliant option for majority of the types of apps on the market (e-commerce, social media, chat, etc). I wouldnt recommend it if your needs are very specific (video streaming, AR/VR, etc).

    • @illuviumgamer
      @illuviumgamer 3 місяці тому +1

      great advice

    • @boombustinvest
      @boombustinvest 3 місяці тому +1

      FF is not even useable in an effiecient way in any case... the web version is cumbersome in the extreme and the new Local Run/Test feature is paid version only... #FAIL

    • @gagansuie
      @gagansuie 3 місяці тому

      @@boombustinvest they created a service that expedites development. If you don't want to pay, just use flutter manually. 🙂

  • @patrickpuma
    @patrickpuma 5 місяців тому +613

    The problem with nocode is you absolutely need to know what you need to do before you start and you need to determine which nocode tool will actually fit your needs. Each tool has different abilities and shortfalls. No code has made me a king in my career. When I need something custom I just code it myself. No code can take 5 minutes to do what code takes a week.

    • @mansgotjokes
      @mansgotjokes 5 місяців тому +39

      Exaclty bro no code is here changing lives 😊😊

    • @dumdum407
      @dumdum407 5 місяців тому +70

      It also requires the app to never require custom modifications for it's entire lifetime

    • @PetrandoRichard
      @PetrandoRichard 5 місяців тому +47

      Agree with dumdum above 👆 if you thrive with no code platform, you must be able to negotiate with the client to never use customized components that you can not build

    • @pcnerd5994
      @pcnerd5994 5 місяців тому +16

      Yeah, the same for me too. I work for agency team that create Enterprise application for small to medium company in my local area. the no code tool helps us a lot but the only reason it works for us is because our boss has 12 years' experience in software development.

    • @promisenwanno5969
      @promisenwanno5969 5 місяців тому +45

      If you really know what you are doing, why would you want to not code. The fact that you are considering no code simply tells us you have no idea what you are doing. I can bet it's faster to code than the drag and drop on a long run, so why waste your time. Drag and drop are for businesses that don't want to hire a developer and do things themselves. Why would you call yourself a developer if you don't want to code? Are we joking here!?

  • @danielgriffiths5901
    @danielgriffiths5901 5 місяців тому +188

    Agreed. Senior engineer here - would never encourage a no code solution. Props to you for exploring and trying to figure it out - it’s a valuable lesson for everyone

    • @lazymass
      @lazymass 5 місяців тому +7

      Senior here, today is first day I saw "no ode" for something more advanced like mobile apps... And why am I not surprised it's basically just templates... With bad code as output...

    • @akirathedog777
      @akirathedog777 4 місяці тому

      Code-monkeys everywhere loosing their minds lmao
      Cry more, youre not special, learn to no-code.

    • @ivanpulispangkalawakan
      @ivanpulispangkalawakan 2 дні тому

      @@akirathedog777 only none smart individuals who don't have the learning capacity who will glorify no-code lmao get smart and get good in life bozo

  • @GregoryMichaelKlein
    @GregoryMichaelKlein 4 місяці тому +61

    I think everyone commenting here must be really young. I'm nearly 60. I've built websites (off and on) for 30 years.
    Back in the day, you had to code to develop a website. When the first rudimentary tools came out that would "allow anyone to build a website", many programmer/developer types said the same things folks are saying here. Slowly they were proved wrong and now, 30 years later, you can make a wordpress site do almost anything you can imagine without touching a line of code.
    Sure, when really serious issues develop (and they will), you'll still need to hire a developer, but locking onto wordpress 20 years ago, after coming from dreamweaver and front page, and geocities before that, was hardly a trap. If you stuck with wordpress, you're now an amazing website builder in high demand making a great living -- and still not coding.
    I expect the app world to follow the same trajectory but, of course, true developers will always be in demand.

    • @pragmatedev
      @pragmatedev 21 день тому +7

      Interesting perspective about web development evolution.
      It's worth to mention one more thing when comparing WordPress to modern no-code tools: The fundamental difference between WordPress and no-code platforms isn't about whether you need to code or not - it's about freedom and control over your business's digital presence.
      With WordPress, you're not locked into someone else's ecosystem. No-code platforms often have hard limits you can't overcome, while with WordPress if you need a custom feature, you can simply add it through plugins or custom development. Your data is truly yours - want to move hosting providers or export your data? No problem. That's not always possible with no-code platforms where your data lives in their ecosystem.
      Cost is another big factor. While no-code SaaS platforms typically increase their prices as you grow, WordPress platform costs stay more stable. We've seen cases where no-code platforms doubled their prices overnight or even shut down, leaving businesses stranded. With WordPress being open-source, this simply can't happen - your website keeps running because you own the platform and the only cost that could go up is the server price.
      In my opinion WordPress which can be used as a no-code platform has much more advantages than other no-code solutions. We've written an in-depth article exploring these differences coditive.com/blog/is-wordpress-the-right-tool-for-building-mvp-a-comprehensive-guide/
      What are your thoughts on this perspective, especially regarding data portability and vendor lock-in?

    • @Tay-ho6sg
      @Tay-ho6sg 7 днів тому

      @@pragmatedevwhat is anyone’s thoughts on integrating micro saas AI product on Wordpress then?
      I’m saying this as a web dev who wants to integrate logic, backend but isn’t trying anything too front end fancy but presentable enough to display the results

    • @thedockforlearning
      @thedockforlearning День тому

      Well said.

  • @juangutierrez163
    @juangutierrez163 4 місяці тому +30

    Low code is powerful when leveraged correctly. As a developer, it is a fast way to build and get experience gathering requirements, managing projects, and establishing clients. This experience is valuable as you move to the next step of coding in languages like Javascript and html or platforms such as React, Django, etc.... As a consumer, the reality is that no platform is perfect. Advanced code platforms are costly and slow to deliver and upgrade. They tend to focus on major projects also. This is why Low code rapid application development exists and is valuable. Apps are built faster, centralizing data inputs and automating reporting. These apps typically fulfill a small departmental need and eventually become so valuable that they graduate to big-time platforms and languages. Smart companies recognize this natural need and hire both no code and advanced code developers. If you are just learning to code and want a lowcode job to get experience, the key is to pick the right low code platform. My recommendation would be the Power platform. Thrive!

    • @RaveKev
      @RaveKev 4 місяці тому

      To be honest, the recommendation for a LowCode Plattform is OutSystems IMHO. We build huge applications with it and barely need to extend it with JavaScript or .Net (both is supported by OutSystems)
      For Companies that already own a Microsoft license where Power Platform is already bought, they could test and try to accomplish their needs.
      But in my opinion, many LowCode Plattforms ruin the reputation of LowCode :)

    • @GreatTaiwan
      @GreatTaiwan 4 місяці тому

      platforms such as React or Django ??? what in the world ?
      the first is a library second is a backend python framework
      for the front ned drag and drop in webflow or use a template for backend quickly you can build something with flask or Spring there's literely zero place for no code
      i can quickly scafold an MVP in 2 hours if i have a template ready written in Vue or Astro modify it a bit call some end points for my Spring backend that literely have everything pre-config and all batteries included (same thing with Lareval or .Net)
      really don't see why a developer should use it and waste it time with learning curve, customizing it and fighting with it
      after the MVP you will not leverage it so all what you did with your no code solution will be thrown out

    • @fablewalls
      @fablewalls Місяць тому

      Sorry - I've had to work with the Power Platform Apps and it is horrible. It's also a nightmare dependent on the goodwill of others - usually corporate ICT admins running whatever security policy any head of security chooses to impose.
      I guess if you run your own enterprise business and want to use Power Platform (remember you're not allowed to actually deploy anything you make outside of the business you own) then go for it, I would rather use a low code alternative where I might have the chance to put whatever I have created onto the App store or Play Store and get some return for my money.

  • @gaiustacitus4242
    @gaiustacitus4242 5 місяців тому +117

    IBM Visual Age was a 98% completion product. The missing 2% would take a team of programmers many years to complete. Every time IBM was asked when the missing features would be added and critical issues resolved, the answer was always 18 to 24 months.

    • @wajeehulhassan_vii
      @wajeehulhassan_vii 5 місяців тому +4

      They will abandon it like Apple car.

    • @scharlesworth93
      @scharlesworth93 4 місяці тому +1

      I knew a guy who worked on Visual Age. He was NOT having a good time....

    • @albirtarsha5370
      @albirtarsha5370 4 місяці тому

      Was that like 20+ years ago? I remember installing it and only using the C compiler. Lol.

    • @gaiustacitus4242
      @gaiustacitus4242 4 місяці тому

      @@albirtarsha5370 Yes, it was. Visual Age had great potential but too many missing features to make it truly useful.

    • @llothar68
      @llothar68 4 місяці тому +1

      Was this Visual Age C++ or the original Visual Age Smalltalk.
      Always wanted to use the Smalltalk to write OS/2 and WinNT but the price tag of IBM was more insane then the bugs and killed the project.

  • @ldandco
    @ldandco 5 місяців тому +136

    No code platforms provide a limited set of functionality predefined.
    Is pretty much a template.
    The moment you step out of the "template", your run into customizations which can rapidly become chaos integrating with the said "template"

    • @paulscottrobson
      @paulscottrobson 5 місяців тому +9

      Every time. I remember the first of these in 1981 ! "the last program you'll ever need" .... it wasn't.

    • @8colly8
      @8colly8 5 місяців тому

      yesssss

    • @ldandco
      @ldandco 4 місяці тому

      @@paulscottrobson Exactly right ... the first No code app development tool I've ever used was Visual Basic in Windows 95. I remember devs saying "oh, with this you may not need to code for much longer"

    • @paulscottrobson
      @paulscottrobson 4 місяці тому +2

      @@ldandco At best it moves it. I (you may also) remember designing dialogue boxes and windows manually or with a very simple tool on Windows 3.x This is now much easier from a prototyping POV

    • @tomacaroni
      @tomacaroni 2 місяці тому

      @@paulscottrobsonthere is another threat for coders right around the corner, AI😂 I’m a coder myself and I see some limitations but duh in 2 years, chatgpt or another llm and their increasing contextuality will make some juniors jobless lol

  • @TacoTacoYum
    @TacoTacoYum 4 місяці тому +53

    To save you time, summary of the "trap": "I can't do this one specific function(s) so the whole no-code platform is trash cuz I didn't understand what the no-code platform was actually capable of when I planned my app."
    This video was the real trap. 😒

    • @michaelderobio5256
      @michaelderobio5256 Місяць тому +3

      On every project it seems like there is that one function though.

    • @TacoTacoYum
      @TacoTacoYum Місяць тому +1

      @@michaelderobio5256 sounds like a problem w/researching the no code platform *prior* to starting the project

    • @sigma_z
      @sigma_z Місяць тому +1

      Yes and no. You will never be able to do everything you need in FF. It's a backwards model.
      You still have to understand technology but now you're layering the code with a drag and drop UI which causes additional headaches like remember what things do and how a widget is made etc...
      Better just learn to code and have full control. Even if the code is janky, it will work better and you will be able to modify as you need.
      FF is a layer of abstraction that is not a transferable skill.

    • @TacoTacoYum
      @TacoTacoYum Місяць тому +1

      @@sigma_z sounds like another way to say "i dont know to properly plan my project"

  • @SahilShirazee
    @SahilShirazee 3 місяці тому +102

    She didn’t even say what she couldn’t do. I feel like this video was more emotional that actually providing a logical argument. Flutterflow to my startup has been amazing we are able to build something super basic and gives us the foundation to scale in the future. You have to know exactly how you want the app / product to function . When I went to my CTO I had a massive PowerPoint deck and flow charts and a basic UI that I had made. No code is not bad it just requires a different skill set

    • @LogicTech45
      @LogicTech45 3 місяці тому +5

      Exactly 💯

    • @diegogomes5912
      @diegogomes5912 2 місяці тому +4

      🎯

    • @ShannonLewis-ti7ft
      @ShannonLewis-ti7ft 2 місяці тому +6

      Facts I think people are mad that tech can do it

    • @Uflbrasil
      @Uflbrasil 2 місяці тому

      She is dummy. I work for this digital bank and your app is dev on FlutterFlow. A bank. Again, a bank. So sorry, but this video is a argument for people that don't want to study and think that no code is simple. And FlutterFlow is LOW code. Ok.

    • @owlel888
      @owlel888 Місяць тому +9

      She did say it you just weren’t listening - she mentions she had a roadblock at creating widgets and couldn’t add them. The code was broken, and not doing its job at that point. When she downloaded the code base she was able to see where it went wrong. She states many others had this issue, and only those who have knowledge in coding would’ve known this. Those who are new to coding in general or app making won’t find this to be an issue, so of course it’ll feel like sunshine for you. Nothing emotional, she’s talking from a developers point of view and she’s 100% right. Any newbie would think this is amazing. It’s not lol.

  • @glidegrid394
    @glidegrid394 5 місяців тому +234

    I've always wanted to hear someone speaking about this.

    • @johnyepthomi892
      @johnyepthomi892 5 місяців тому +2

      No code that works for specific limited role should not be taken as no code for everything. It can work for simple apis but in most cases would require custom code to make it work.

    • @syvalis
      @syvalis 4 місяці тому

      ​@@johnyepthomi892 do you want some real usecase or fundable startup that only run with no-code ?
      Like : Closify, Synthflow, Beev, Prello, Cuure, Betterlegal, ...

  • @hermes6910
    @hermes6910 5 місяців тому +154

    0:58 Flutter is a framework, Dart is the language.
    Apart from that, yes, no code is a trap.
    It always has been, and probably will be for many years to come.

    • @SufianBabri
      @SufianBabri 4 місяці тому +4

      No code is basically the modern snake oil.

    • @Ziko2687s8
      @Ziko2687s8 4 місяці тому +3

      I think its meant like saying you code in react, when really its JS or jsx. Just semantics I think, but I see your point.

    • @littledovecitydust
      @littledovecitydust 3 місяці тому

      but, you can code with claude now.

    • @somedude6420
      @somedude6420 3 місяці тому +1

      ​@@littledovecitydust true, with AI, anyone can build apps. They can learn through the AI if they lack the knowledge as well

    • @littledovecitydust
      @littledovecitydust 3 місяці тому +3

      @@somedude6420 when you say anyone can build with AI, traditional software developers still have the upper hand since they can understand the code and correct and guide the AI. but yes, the democratization process of knowledge is insane.

  • @dera_ng
    @dera_ng 5 місяців тому +122

    Hi, informative video.....
    Just a very (probably insignificant pick)...
    The language is *Dart*
    The app development framework is *Flutter*

    • @mitigamespro8757
      @mitigamespro8757 5 місяців тому +11

      Would've been nice if she mentioned what kind of developer she is, and what programming languages she knows. Maybe i'll take a look at some of her videos for an answer...

    • @IStMl
      @IStMl 5 місяців тому

      @@mitigamespro8757 bam, she got you engaged in her channel

  • @waltermelo1033
    @waltermelo1033 5 місяців тому +67

    The problem with no-code is that they sell it for non-technical people and each of them have their own learning curve. and other problem is that. no-code actually doesn' t exists. it's all low-code.
    I work with Webflow, and everytime I'm doing some simple javascript. Low code has their merits and it's a powerful tool in the hands of a specialist. but you need to learn how to deal with each one limitations.

    • @kevinsedwards
      @kevinsedwards 5 місяців тому +2

      If you're using webflow you should feel shame

    • @waltermelo1033
      @waltermelo1033 5 місяців тому +12

      @@kevinsedwards I'm not using Webflow because of lack of skill to code, I can do a website with code anytime I need to.
      It's just that I did not choose Webflow, Webflow choose me and it pay my bills.

    • @daphenomenalz4100
      @daphenomenalz4100 5 місяців тому

      @@kevinsedwards It's good when you want to make animations that would probably take a lot of time if done manually, it's better to save time when it comes to something like html css lmao

    • @kevinsedwards
      @kevinsedwards 5 місяців тому

      @@daphenomenalz4100 if you're skilled and have a good framework, you're much faster than webflow and better.

    • @kevinsedwards
      @kevinsedwards 5 місяців тому

      @@waltermelo1033 it only pays the bills because webflow has good marketing. There's always some potato head client who falls for marketing then wants you to use it

  • @kinsondigital
    @kinsondigital 5 місяців тому +138

    I am a very experienced developer, and my advice to people is to avoid no-code solutions. I think they are a fallacy. If you are serious about creating software, you are much better off putting in the time and learning how to code and other related development processes.

    • @deechonada
      @deechonada 5 місяців тому +6

      What about someone coming from a strictly design based background with little programming knowledge (the very basics). Isnt there some merit to producing the front end and then fix it up towards the end? I don't expect to never learn code but I've always build visually.
      Also from your experience, could you explain to me some examples of customisations that are limited with no code builders? What kind of scope are we talking here. What kind of features would you say make it practically impossible to work with no code?

    • @attilaguba856
      @attilaguba856 5 місяців тому

      I totally agree with you! I'm working with .Net , C# ! I've just got recently got a new client because the client tried use WordPress and it failed with many plugins! I can see people are struggling with Wix too! Avoid drag-drop stuff to build app.

    • @iamnoone3588
      @iamnoone3588 4 місяці тому

      @@deechonadaive worked with webflow, once you move away from its built in features youll start having a bad time tm. An example would be numbered pagination/cms filtering would only take 1 day for a good developer to implement from scratch but with low code it would take a lot of jumping hoops
      i see the value tho, for very simple sites and designs nocode/low code is really good just dont use it on projects that get scope creeped hard

    • @TheSilverGlow
      @TheSilverGlow 4 місяці тому +13

      @@deechonada, yes there are use cases for low code, regardless of what "experienced" and "senior" developers tell you. Many low code apps have hooks and other optional ways to augment them, add customize behavior, allow changes to their internal DB to further customize. I've got 45 years as a true senior and experienced developer, so I know. To be fair though, the number of use cases is small. But to make the blanket statement "no code is all bad", is just showing one's lack of experience.

    • @deechonada
      @deechonada 4 місяці тому

      @TheSilverGlow Thanks for your advice! ive actually decided to learn how to program using dart and flutter. I like the idea of drag and drop, but I honestly think for the scope of my app (lottie animation heavy, and highly reliant on unique UI), i thought it be best to just bite the bullet and learn how to program. I don't think it will be easy, but as far as I have learned since I did my last message i am actually able to execute short blocs of code! I'm starting to understand the syntax and the purpose of each tool.
      On top of that, I was planning to leverage packages for the app when i wanted to use flutterflow, but that would require me going into the source code and manipulating it, which I think I would need to know how to code for anyways. And again, so Ive heard from developers, the code flutterflow produces makes animation heavy apps noticeably slow. I still think FF and other low code builders are worth their salt, but since im already design minded, I just feel like low code is too restrictive for what I want to build.
      As far as I can see it, and please tell me if I'm wrong, low code is good at providing services with quite boilerplate UI, and I think i just need to learn how to code. I've been putting it off for ages, and saw low code as a get out. It taught me that I might aswell try seeing as I'm going so far as to be willing to pay a service to essentially code for me. I just have to do it. Wish me luck!!

  • @kasparskalnins4296
    @kasparskalnins4296 5 місяців тому +9

    I've worked with Power Automate that is another low code/no code platform and while it is quite powerful and allows you to do A LOT there were still close to zero use -cases where we didn't need to build our own custom APIs to automate the things our client needed and we automated more than 60 different business processes with a bunch of systems involved so it was a wide range of things that had to be solved. Version control is also an issue with low code platforms. Also- you should still get experienced software developers to do the low/no code projects of you want to make them more or less maintainable. Non-technical users will make spaghetti almost every time.

  • @jexenwebx
    @jexenwebx 5 місяців тому +9

    Every programming language has some limitations too and depending on the dev skills it can still be difficult to scale or not secured.
    In no code, it just have a lot more limitation and needs a know how to make it more scalable and secured.

  • @tibuigerard1564
    @tibuigerard1564 5 місяців тому +39

    I have basic idea of coding and I've been using bubble for well over 5 years. I think it depends on what u are building. I have had some hurdles to overcome when customizing but overall my experience has been good.I have built at least 15 apps both for clients and myself.

    • @anantghere1
      @anantghere1 5 місяців тому

      dear sir ..can i go for bubble for my some basic apps?plz tell me to save my time....waiting for your reply

    • @tibuigerard1564
      @tibuigerard1564 5 місяців тому

      @@anantghere1 One thing I can say is that if you've never ever built an app before on any nocode platform or on wordpress, and you are not tech savvy, hire someone, because the learning curve might be high for u. Otherwise go for it It is one of the best, when it comes to customization. You can look up some apps that some people have done to confirm

    • @brainbowlofi
      @brainbowlofi 5 місяців тому

      @@anantghere1 i can answer on behalf as i am a bubble user(3 yrs) as well, basic apps shoudnt be a problem i wud say,

    • @galdx_
      @galdx_ 4 місяці тому

      ​@anantghere1 it depends on what you intend to perform in your app. For most CRUD apps, Bubble will suit you. However, if you grow over time, you might need to switch database, to plug to apis and/or to run custom scripts.

  • @georgy.design
    @georgy.design 5 місяців тому +12

    As a seasoned Webflow developer, I saw this video in my feed and immediately was upset by the clickbaity title - I decided to watch the full video and here are my thoughts:
    1. The video should be renamed “No Code MOBILE App Development is a Trap” - you can build web apps and even scalable ones. The title is a clickbait and I really hate it. Some people might call me “nitpicky”, but Dee never mentions “mobile” in the description and title - even in the video, for the most part. She makes no-code look bad in general. I believe it’s a really bad thing to do.
    2. While I didn’t have personal experience with building mobile apps, I do agree with Dee on one point - these platforms aren't that much honest in their marketing. I think it’s the issue even with non-mobile no-code related platforms, sadly. That being said, it’s not like they are blatantly lying - you can, in fact, build production-ready apps with these mobile app no-code development platforms. However, they do not tell you about all the nuances you might encounter such as lack of customization (which is fine, even Dee admits it). So calling “no-code mobile app development” a trap is a stretch.
    3. No-code in general isn’t bad as Dee tries to make it look like - moreover, as I’ve mentioned before, she talks SPECIFICALLY ABOUT MOBILE APPS. I use Webflow and it is amazing! Does it have limitations? Obviously, as any other platform, but you can build so much with it - by utilizing 3rd party and integrated apps too, you can build web-apps even. A popular combo stack is WWX - Webflow + Wized + Xano. You can build production and scalable apps. Sure, not everything can be built with this stack or no-code platforms in general, and it makes sense. It’s not a panacea.
    4. Anyway, people must do prior research and learn about limitations of tools they use. It’s hilarious to see people coming expecting a panacea from every tool they use - then they go to Reddit and Twtiter and start shitting on a tool. I’m not saying that Dee lies about stuff in the video - she does not, and I believe here, I’ve heard about no-code mobile app dev platforms, they aren’t astoundingly great, but they do the job for the most part. Many apps can be built with them. Not all, not super custom, yes. But still many. And I believe it’s amazing. Sure, these companies kinda lie in their marketing about possibilities, but it’s not like these tools are garbage or a TRAP.
    5. I’ve seen many people complain about Webflow on Reddit and (a few times) in Telegram group chats related to the tool, that it is bad, trash, garbage, and so on. Turns out, in 99% of cases, that these people didn’t learn about the tool, didn’t do prior research, just deep dived into it and expected everything on a platter without moving a muscle - hilarious! These tools, Webflow too, aren’t ideal, but the amount of possibilities they give to the users is really empowering.
    I have way more thoughts about this video and similar ones - maybe I’ll make a video addressing them one day, but for now I think this long-ass reply is enough.
    I just want to add that coders should stop gatekeeping development from other people - no one is stealing your jobs, and even if they do, then you need to step up your game and adapt. Gosh, the amount of elitism is insane. The comments just reek of it. Disgusting, honestly.
    P.S: Keep in mind, that I’ve talked only about APP DEVELOPMENT here - there are so many other things like websites/frontend development, automation/integrations (n8n is amazing!), etc.

    • @vitormello3807
      @vitormello3807 2 місяці тому

      best comment so far. Totally agreed

  • @jeteloriaga
    @jeteloriaga 5 місяців тому +25

    Thanks a bunch for this! You confirm my suspicions without me having to suffer thru the process.

  • @DrLightMDDJ
    @DrLightMDDJ 5 місяців тому +43

    Don't let anyone tell you 'no-code'. Low code yes, I've been working with Microsoft Power Apps (canvas apps) for several years now and have had great success. No issues scaling, but it does take code! To do anything more complex than a basic CRUD app you will need (or need to learn) development experience.

    • @kidd32888
      @kidd32888 4 місяці тому

      Same here!!

    • @henrikbergman4055
      @henrikbergman4055 4 місяці тому

      As someone maybe getting into Microsoft Power Apps. How is the data input validation? Ex. I want the user to input a correct formatted email address. Needs coding?

    • @DrLightMDDJ
      @DrLightMDDJ 4 місяці тому

      @@henrikbergman4055 Plan to do coding for validation. If you're working with Dataverse on the back end some of the validation is easier - but just plan on coding for everything you want beyond the very basic and don't make too many assumptions. Code/test/code/test to be sure it all works like you expect.

    • @Rand0081
      @Rand0081 4 місяці тому

      Man, I despise the scripting language so much. But that's just me.

    • @abulhasan923
      @abulhasan923 3 місяці тому

      Which low code platform do you use?

  • @TheBendixSA
    @TheBendixSA 5 місяців тому +9

    No-Code just can't cover all use cases. It's like borrowing someone else's toolbox. Writing the code yourself removes these limits. Edit: Great video by the way, been wondering when someone would discuss this.

  • @mattsmartin
    @mattsmartin 5 місяців тому +41

    No offense but this is a gather point for insecure developers.
    Being both a person that is a developer and commissions software devs …thank god for no-code. To be able to Prototype working software in days is the best way to get the developer and client on the same page.
    I think I have lost way more time and money on software developers not delivering what is scoped. Please don’t lecture me on how to scope.
    Our days are numbed anyway, which is cool by me.

    • @akirathedog777
      @akirathedog777 4 місяці тому +10

      Thank you, all of these comments seem to be coming from insecurity
      The idea that any profession is going to withstand progress of tech indefinitively is absurd

    • @flaviaoliveira5949
      @flaviaoliveira5949 4 місяці тому +12

      "To be able to Prototype working software in days is the best way to get the developer and client on the same page." She literally said no-code platforms are good for that

    • @mattsmartin
      @mattsmartin 2 місяці тому +4

      @@flaviaoliveira5949 just noticed your comment. I didn’t say that she was wrong i was referring to several people making comments. I think she is great and it takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there.
      Ill be more careful in my wording.

    • @sigma_z
      @sigma_z Місяць тому

      If you just want to prototype, use Figma. It can deploy to mobile and will allow anyone to build UI/UX.
      When coding something more than a Hello World, then it's better to code by hand than to use a WYSIWYG because FF will have limitations and in your project, the trouble is, when you find these limitations with FF for your project, you'll be too invested so you're either going to get fired, lose the market opportunity or start again from scratch using real coding.
      moral, don't waste your time with FF.
      It's like the saying goes, if you think hiring a professional is expensive, try hiring an amateur

    • @analuiza2677
      @analuiza2677 Місяць тому

      It definetly is... at least no code web tecnology is going waaaayyy far... so far I honestly decided to stop fighting it and learn it, as Devs we can do so much more than people with no coding experience in these platforms, we just need to take our time and LEARN the tools.

  • @timondalton8731
    @timondalton8731 4 місяці тому +9

    As someone developing from scratch on web and mobile, I agree and disagree. I use flutter flow to turn my figma design into the code for my UI and it saves an inordinate amount of time compared to coding it up by hand. I also love using wordpress for building static sites as I can do in a day what would take me a week or longer otherwise. Does that mean you mean you should build the whole of a fully featured app in them? Obviously not. They might have obvious limitations, but the nature of their shortcomings is exactly that. Obvious. Some wisdom on when to apply them will help you much more than scrapping them completely.

  • @mind_of_a_darkhorse
    @mind_of_a_darkhorse 5 місяців тому +46

    It kind of reminds me of the drag-and-drop Web Builders that were pushed Years ago! They would get you started, but required you to have to go through the code to fix the bad spots! And there were a plethora of issues! While they have gotten somewhat better, you still need to know the code. Programming Code is more intense and there are so many paths one can go down that drag and drop would automatically be limiting and if the code is bad so will the app be bad!

    • @codingwithdee
      @codingwithdee  5 місяців тому +6

      Yes exactly! Those web builders were horrible. Definitely learned my lesson ☠️

    • @Pensandoci9
      @Pensandoci9 5 місяців тому +7

      Drag-n-drop web builders are used by enterprise companies all over the world on a daily basis. There are agencies, freelancers, and an ecosystem of plugins and add-ons for website builders like Webflow and Framer. All websites on these platforms are hosted on secure servers, deploy similar code, and follow best practices. In some cases, a website on Webflow is more stable and performant than a website you commission to a random developer. Not all platforms are the same, and the idea of "limitations" is quite abstract. There are limits in everything you choose, including hiring a developer. Cost limits are real limits, the dev skillset is a real limit, etc.

    • @mind_of_a_darkhorse
      @mind_of_a_darkhorse 5 місяців тому

      @@Pensandoci9 True! But I was talking about the Web Builders in their infancy and I know they have gotten a lot better, but they still are not perfect, and knowing how to code, is still a good idea.

    • @InternationalScholars
      @InternationalScholars 5 місяців тому

      ​@@Pensandoci9I agree with you 💯

  • @ian-tumulak
    @ian-tumulak 5 місяців тому +12

    WordPress also suffer from this. As a WordPress developer, I have built many websites app using WordPress but always fall short into scalability issues and limitation. Another problem with this is that your are enforce to learn the page builder of their choice. It can either be gutenburg, elementor, divi, newspaper, or so many too mentions. You are forced to learn it but they are technically not transferable to any other programming language or migrating from another platform.
    No code solutions are not inherently bad; You just have to understand their limitation. Before committing to building an app with no-code tools, your client and team should identify these limitations and agree on the terms.

    • @juanamillo
      @juanamillo 5 місяців тому

      WordPress "developer"? 😂😂😂😂 That was a good one.

    • @ian-tumulak
      @ian-tumulak 5 місяців тому +7

      @@juanamillo You never heard of WordPress developer was a thing? You are probably still in college when that role sprung up. Let me lecture you. WordPress devs don't just deal with no-code, we fill the roles for Theme/Plugin customization or creating one from scratch. We also create or extend widgets to these page builder so that we meet client specification. We also incorporate WP CLI and REST API. These things involves coding and a lot of WordPress shenanigans to account for. Working and mastering a page builders is one the biggest thorn of my career. It is hard to negotiate a client and tell them to build everything in code because they will think it is an expensive route and they will have hard time with maintenance or making enhancements since most clients has no coding experience.
      We sometime laugh at something we don't understand, I feel you. Even myself laugh the hell out when I first heard "prompt engineering" was a thing.

    • @Arjun44598
      @Arjun44598 5 місяців тому +7

      @@juanamillo Lol who do you thinks builds the plugins? Writes the themes? Tell me you're inexperienced without telling me, also immature and condescending.

    • @ceofidetv
      @ceofidetv 3 місяці тому

      😂😂​@@juanamillo

    • @ceofidetv
      @ceofidetv 3 місяці тому

      😂 easy​@@Arjun44598

  • @janbarsk3077
    @janbarsk3077 5 місяців тому +9

    I am a computer teacher for students in a British international secondary school. Next school year I will teach the basics of how to make apps. Since it is going to be one of these no-coding alternatives, I am grateful that I saw your presentation.

    • @paulscottrobson
      @paulscottrobson 5 місяців тому

      Twas ever thus. Years ago they used to usual Visual BASIC 3.0 drag and drop ; that's pretty much all they did, but the "wow he/she wrote a windows app" fooled examiners.

    • @doobybrother21
      @doobybrother21 5 місяців тому +2

      Maybe look into MIT''s App Inventor. It's geared towards education.

    • @Arekadiusz
      @Arekadiusz 4 місяці тому

      As a dev, please teach them to use chat bots. And to use them only after unsuccesful trying doing it manually or asking for help/suggestions. And teach about process, not just the final result. Or just for simple, repeatable tasks. Or data summary or further explanation.

  • @bzouchir
    @bzouchir 5 місяців тому +42

    Great and honest review ... No code is like:
    Make a cake... without learning how to cook
    Go places... without learning how to walk
    Build a house.. without touching a brick
    Bring ideas to life... without learning how to do nor think
    a get-code-quick scheme sounds alarmingly similar to get-rich-quick scheme... they all get you 10% of the way and leave you there..

    • @paulscottrobson
      @paulscottrobson 5 місяців тому +2

      As an oldie I remember one of these that ran on a tape drive on the PET (1981) which claimed to be the last program you'll ever need. There've been many panacea since. I can't think of an older one than that.

    • @BoysSilent
      @BoysSilent 15 днів тому

      It depends on the user. If you have code knowledge - transitioning to low-code is like having a superpower.
      Low code with traditional code knowledge is like this:
      Go places... knowing how to walk - but you have a bike

  • @adirnoyman2231
    @adirnoyman2231 Місяць тому +2

    You are exactly right. I would also add that on many of this No Code platforms you are vendor locked and you can’t migrate your app to another platform, so you find your self trapped and have to pay for it.

  • @Pekz00r
    @Pekz00r 5 місяців тому +7

    The thing with no code solutions is that you need to be very willing to adapt your business/project to the platform, and not the other way around that is the normal approach when developing apps with code. You always need to settle for 90 - 95 % in the best case where you have picked the best platform for your project. For most projects there is no way to know exactly what you want ahead of time, and definitely not where you are going to end up after you talk to your actual users. The chance that you will able able to get anywhere near 90 % is therefore pretty low.
    The only way to make good apps is to develop them iteratively while you gather as much info and data as possible from user users and target audience. That is pretty much impossible with no code platforms and is the largest flaw with no code platforms in my experience. You will end up when a pretty bad app that will be really hard to sell, so it is probably hard to use even as a PoC or MVP. It's usnually way better to try to make a pretty polished a PoC or MVP with a very limited feature set and let real users use it.

  • @axeo123
    @axeo123 5 місяців тому +24

    The main use case for no/low code is the "citizen developer" that wants to put forms and lists over a spreadsheet and create more of an "app" for internal use.

    • @Skibbi198
      @Skibbi198 4 місяці тому +4

      Absolute game changer for someone who wants something more robust than a convoluted over-sized spreadsheet.

    • @axeo123
      @axeo123 4 місяці тому +3

      Yes. The limitations are scalability which is unlikely to impact most internal apps. The next issue though is multi-tenant, multi-user, the My Account subsystem needed for a classic SaaS. Should not be that hard to do, but just a few of the many no/low code tools appear to be giving it a go.

    • @chpsilva
      @chpsilva 4 місяці тому +1

      And that's how a lot of corporate applications are born and later become huge problems to mantain and evolve.

    • @RaveKev
      @RaveKev 4 місяці тому +1

      As a Developer (Java since 2009, LowCode since 2021) i can disagree. We build huge Applications with OutSystems (LowCode) that are much much more than just a Spreadsheet or internal use.

    • @RaveKev
      @RaveKev 4 місяці тому +1

      @@axeo123 Maybe you picked the wrong LowCode Platform. We handle multi-tennant, multi-user with ease.

  • @theradstream
    @theradstream 5 місяців тому +11

    I think the point is that you can iterate faster on no code so you learn more about the problem that you’re solving in a shorter amount of time.
    If you know exactly what you’re building and you know how to code…..sure, use code.
    On scalability, you’re going to rebuild your app a bunch as you scale regardless of what stack you use…again unless you know exactly what you’re building from the jump.
    All of these are tools at the end of the day, you need to choose the right one for the job.
    But I also agree with you that No Code marketing makes it seem like it solves all the world's problems.

  • @MarkBetterDev
    @MarkBetterDev 5 місяців тому +14

    No code is pretty much one evidence that “devin” or whatever these AI developers are called will not replace developers anytime soon. They either write horrible code that’s not customizable or it’s buggy code that still needs knowledgable people to debug it. I’d say, give it about 5 decades before it’s truly a thread to us engineers

    • @mousepotatodoesstuff
      @mousepotatodoesstuff 5 місяців тому +2

      And by that time it will be a threat to the system as we know it anyway so we'll either be set or cooked anyway.

    • @chrisc9725
      @chrisc9725 5 місяців тому +4

      5 decades??? More like 5 years.

    • @MarkBetterDev
      @MarkBetterDev 5 місяців тому +1

      @@chrisc9725 I see why you would think that but remember news about not having data anymore to train these models?, that's why I'm expecting decades.

    • @judeonukogu3977
      @judeonukogu3977 5 місяців тому +2

      This will happen within 2 years.

    • @YaBoyfelipe
      @YaBoyfelipe 5 місяців тому +1

      @@MarkBetterDevYoooo you right about the running out of data thing. Dayum

  • @dialconnex
    @dialconnex 5 місяців тому +6

    Thanks for this honest feedback. I'll still keep using FF though to test and validate my concepts. I think we shouldn't forget a very important point: these tools have existed for a very short time, and FF is improving extremely fast. If the progression goes along with AI's (which btw is becoming incredibly good at coding), I guess we could soon (under 3 years) have revolutionary ways to build apps. Maybe could you make a feedback video about these no-code tools each year to see if you progressively change your mind 😜

    • @amadiclement6004
      @amadiclement6004 4 місяці тому

      I love your response bro. She needs to make her research on FF solid enough.

    • @SophiaCoffee_Mindest
      @SophiaCoffee_Mindest Місяць тому

      I totally agree, I am doing the same

  • @MichaelHigdon-exodus
    @MichaelHigdon-exodus 5 місяців тому +6

    Flutterflow's no code is mostly in the UI side. Still have to jump into the dart file often to get custom functions to work properly. Good thing is that many of the AI's out there are semi-decent at writing the solutions you need.

  • @jameshickman5401
    @jameshickman5401 5 місяців тому +4

    In my evaluation, most "no code" are garbage that leaves out the critical parts of actual software development like proper debugging and testing support, or even version tracking. Avoid at all cost.
    But, there are some "low code" platforms that are more similar to Rapid Application Development from the 90's that don't pretend that actual coding and debugging is not needed. In my evalulations, so far, AppSmith seems to be the best balance and is under an Open Source license.

  • @dolzi5392
    @dolzi5392 5 місяців тому +12

    Flutter isn't a language, its a framework. Dart is the programming language Flutter is based on.

    • @lavenduct2001
      @lavenduct2001 3 місяці тому

      If one says it was written in React, is it also wrong to say or must it be JavaScript? Ever heard of the flutter IDE?

    • @dolzi5392
      @dolzi5392 3 місяці тому +1

      ​@@lavenduct2001 cool story.

  • @kanaalmarc
    @kanaalmarc 3 місяці тому +3

    Problem is that managers think that AI and No-Code are the future of programming, and if you try to convince them otherwise then they tell you that you're old and not *want* to move to modern techniques. They tell you maybe it's better to hire young "developers" that have more knowledge of the modern "revolution".
    Let's face it after 100 years we still have rubber tires. Old can be good for a long time ....

  • @IStMl
    @IStMl 5 місяців тому +2

    That's why Framer is quite special. They nailed the "no-code but with decent low-level access" thing. Your custom React components just work.

  • @emcquesten
    @emcquesten 5 місяців тому +8

    Have you tried the WWX stack? Webflow, Wized, and Xano or Supabase or Firebase for that matter. It's not exactly no code, more like low-code but you can build customized web apps.

  • @MrSMGun
    @MrSMGun 5 місяців тому +2

    Finally someone is speaking up. A lot of people fall for the marketing ploys of these platforms especially those gullible managers. There litttle to no voice speaking up against them. So thanks a lot for your video and keep it going ❤

  • @CodingWithAuryn
    @CodingWithAuryn 5 місяців тому +7

    Love your summary and your story telling. Thanks for your experience with flutter flow, this probably saves me some headache.

    • @LogicTech45
      @LogicTech45 3 місяці тому

      Are you looking to build a web application anytime soon

  • @ElectroRestore
    @ElectroRestore 4 місяці тому +1

    This is the same issue that came about in website design about 10 years back with no code designers like Wix and WordPress. Stay away from these crazy companies. If you download your WordPress code, you will see that it uses 1,000s of lines of code just to draw a simple block layout, that a web developer could do with Javascript, CSS, and PHP or other basic scripting languages (or real programming like Python, Java and C++/C#) in less than a day! Kudos to you for taking on such ripoff technology, wanna be, programming companies!

  • @jordigirvent9250
    @jordigirvent9250 5 місяців тому +3

    Really apreciate the advice, im learning to code and have plan to learn no code tools also, I was specting no code tools to be insuficient, but It surprises me they have the isues you have mentioned, everione wants to sell the new magic money maker but I hear no body talk about the limitations, thank you for sharing your expirience, Is encouraging to hear hard working and honest people.

  • @MartinMaat
    @MartinMaat 4 місяці тому +3

    This goes for any third party library or component, tools that allow you to do things more quickly. They get you 90% of what you want and have you spend the rest of the life cycle time of the application working around its limitations and dealing with its side effects.

  • @liammcgarrigle
    @liammcgarrigle 5 місяців тому +14

    I have never had practical experience with these issues but ALWAYS preached this to people that would ask me about no code platforms.
    Btw, you said you're a dev, what kind? Dart is super easy to pickup and flutter can be a joy once you get used to the widget tree.
    I am faster with coding flutter than i would be in flutter flow (with the + of it being good scalable code)

    • @sateIIitepilot
      @sateIIitepilot 4 місяці тому

      She's in data analytics so probably python and sql or R, etc.

  • @maxbarbul
    @maxbarbul 5 місяців тому +4

    I’m glad you talked about that. What those platforms say about themselves is a wishful thinking or rather straight lying. I’m a developer, and I participated several times extending applications that someone like yourself created with “no code” tools and hit the wall. I can say, it’s always a huge pain for developers and it takes times more time than actually rewriting from scratch.
    As a developer and a startup partner I continue hoping for some tool that would help building faster, but nothing so far. They all barely maintainable, no proper tools for testing nor debugging, they’re opaque so, they just not working sometimes as expected and you don’t have straightforward way to fix it. Just trying something differently and hoping they would regenerate the app fixed.
    You will always end up hiring the best developers (expensive) to dig out of that trap 😢

  • @dev_ression
    @dev_ression 5 місяців тому +5

    Great video Dee, very well explained. No code app dev is full of holes

  • @MelwynTurbant
    @MelwynTurbant 5 місяців тому +19

    Can you show us the features you couldn't create with nocode?

    • @silentwater79
      @silentwater79 5 місяців тому +1

      Anything that needs some customisation or more than basic business logic above stupidly read and write data to a database.

    • @AvgJane19
      @AvgJane19 4 місяці тому

      Like what...​@@silentwater79

    • @userer23hhccyiyfiugiutf
      @userer23hhccyiyfiugiutf 4 місяці тому +1

      ​@@silentwater79 lies everything you can do with flutter you can do it with flutterflow

    • @Dav-jj2jb
      @Dav-jj2jb 4 місяці тому +9

      I wonder as well. 99% of all IT solutions are just basic CRUD stuff. No idea what people are building that requires all this "customisation". The real downfall of no code are licensing issues and vendor lock-ins, but that wasn't even mentioned.

    • @nakaiwilliams1704
      @nakaiwilliams1704 3 місяці тому

      @@Dav-jj2jb Exactly, flutter-flow rocks for fast and decent development

  • @kenneencail
    @kenneencail 4 місяці тому +11

    Saying no code app will fail is like saying cloud networking will fail. Everything has its place and niche

    • @TOTTP
      @TOTTP Місяць тому

      Just people mad they spent so much time doing something , now it’s easier but a learning curve to what they already know

  • @StartupCaptain
    @StartupCaptain 5 місяців тому +13

    Here's a different question though: Do you think you could have an MVP **without** those missing 10%?
    i.e. Could you validate the market demand with only 90% finished?
    Or were those missing 10% so vital that it wouldn't even make the whole thing into an MVP?
    Could you have done a few tweaks to get a functioning MVP with just 90%?

    • @MiguelSeabraMelo
      @MiguelSeabraMelo 5 місяців тому +7

      This is the absolute right question. I'm not a no-coder, but I hate strawmen arguments, so it's important to know what ended up on these 10%. If it's some snazzy CSS animation that really won't make an iota of functional difference, it is quite different from not being able to pull data from a system of record.

    • @KentKnightsHighlight
      @KentKnightsHighlight 5 місяців тому +3

      I was just asking myself the exact same question. Could you attract financial and dev partners with an MVP that was 90% of what the final launch product would be? The biggest issue is that there is no way to really know where the 90% lies. Is it just before those features that really set your product apart, or after they're in and working?

    • @mixartg
      @mixartg 2 місяці тому +1

      I have 13K installs and have had no problems and estimate I won’t pull away from this nocode platform until 50-100K.

  • @dmihai91
    @dmihai91 5 місяців тому +9

    I think a low code platform with an AI copilot could be a better solution in the future than a no code platform

    • @gaiustacitus4242
      @gaiustacitus4242 5 місяців тому +4

      AI writes VERY BAD CODE. Barring insertion of simple functions, it typically takes longer to fix the issues with AI generated code than to just write the code by hand.
      If you aren't proficient at writing code, then you either won't see the flaws in AI generated code or won't be able to fix them.

    • @ubitubee
      @ubitubee 5 місяців тому

      @@gaiustacitus4242on the other hand, ChatGPT seems to be more knowledgeable about React esoterica than 95% of devs out there, including myself, so that’s a plus

  • @moritz_p
    @moritz_p 4 місяці тому +1

    I work at a very big non-tech company. We have at least 5 no code platforms for our internal tools that I know of. It is always the same. They buy a platform for huge amounts of money. Then they realize it has the same problems as all the others. Then they end the contract and buy a new one. And the best thing is that every time they do this, everybody who used the platform has to redo everything on the new platform because you can't just migrate your projects from one to another. None of these platforms are focused on developers - they are made for non technical people. However, developers are the ones who end up using them and it always blows up in their face.

  • @woy8
    @woy8 5 місяців тому +3

    One other BIG problem you did not mention, I think, is that you are completely dependent on this platform for the future. Apps regularly need updates, because requirements for the app store change (and many other reasons), now you have to HOPE they have this new requirement available and it still plays nice with the rest of your app.
    I am a 15+year unity3D dev, and I hardly use plugins at all for this specific reason. You are now reliant on it, I update the plugin and the app breaks (since they changed too much), or they just stopped updating it and it doesn't work anymore etc. No this is just one plugin, with these tools your whole app would rely on a third party.. that is a major red flag for me.

    • @mixartg
      @mixartg 2 місяці тому

      Not true, flutterflow can push to GitHub and all code is available and you can continue off platform if you like.

  • @arkimphiri
    @arkimphiri 5 місяців тому +10

    Great analysis once more Dee. At the moment, no code is not mature enough for high grade, highly customizable applications.

    • @codingwithdee
      @codingwithdee  5 місяців тому +4

      Definitely. I’m sure it will get better in future but I don’t think it will be anytime soon. Thanks for watching!

    • @arkimphiri
      @arkimphiri 5 місяців тому

      @@codingwithdee That's why I have stayed away from no-code, when the time is right if ever, will jump in

  • @cmoullasnet
    @cmoullasnet 5 місяців тому +3

    Every time I’ve tried low/no code platforms, you always hit a wall. Trying to get past that dead end is a complete waste of time and it makes you wish you’d just have done it properly from scratch. The problem is that it’s impossible to know what the limitations are until you get there and are backed into a corner.
    Don’t do it.

    • @paulscottrobson
      @paulscottrobson 5 місяців тому

      Could be useful for prototyping, maybe ?

  • @Miho_13
    @Miho_13 4 місяці тому +1

    If anyone is still considering no-code solutions after this video and is looking for an assurance to continue with them anyway, don't. You will just waste your time.
    When I started working on my side project (as a person coming from Sales and Marketing), I thought that no-code was great. Then I started using one of them and it was so complicated and so rigid in the way it worked, that I gave up on it in a few weeks and decided to learn how to code instead. It took me several months to get the basics and to start to code full-stack apps but now I can practically make anything (as long as I put the effort in it). Other benefits of doing it yourself: You own the product, you have control over deployment, which makes it times cheaper when you start having real users.

  • @VicentL
    @VicentL 5 місяців тому +3

    Adding my 2 cents here.
    I've been a web developer for 15 years but, due to greater forces (media hype), I needed to carry out some projects on low-code platforms, such as Microsoft Power Apps. I can also prove that no-code/low-code only works for simple projects.
    No-code/low-code is REALLY a trap.
    But one thing we can't deny here: their marketing is very strong.

  • @deepakfialok
    @deepakfialok 4 місяці тому +1

    Thanks for the video! I'd love to see the complete story of your journey in developing the app natively as well, because getting things right on the first try is hype as well

  • @ELPULANTO
    @ELPULANTO 5 місяців тому +7

    You didn't even explained what your problem is. It could be that you were wrong with your implementation of flutter flow.
    No code is definitely a solution that saves a lot of money if you know how to do it right :)

  • @imbafolk2203
    @imbafolk2203 26 днів тому +2

    Being 100% dependant on one framework or 3rd party environment is a dumb move if you're trying to establish a business or in this case create an app.

  • @LeonardLeon
    @LeonardLeon 5 місяців тому +11

    There are plenty of good no code systems. Geometry Nodes in Blender, Blueprints in Unreal, Bifrost in Maya....

    • @scharlesworth93
      @scharlesworth93 4 місяці тому

      there aren't

    • @LeonardLeon
      @LeonardLeon 4 місяці тому

      @@scharlesworth93 ok…what is wrong with the examples I mentioned?

  • @JayMaverick
    @JayMaverick 4 місяці тому +1

    No code of yesterday is AI of today.
    The experts will roll their eyes, while the mindless equity investors will throw their money at every startup using the right hype terms.

  • @avicamhi5311
    @avicamhi5311 5 місяців тому +16

    No-code is definitely work in progress, but also definitely the future of development. Customization and integration limitations are being sorted out gradually, and AI won't but boost this revolution of coding from a visual or natural language interface. The article on Bubble is from 2021, a lot has changed since. I don't think it's a trap, although it might not yet be good enough for your project.

    • @mudi2000a
      @mudi2000a 5 місяців тому +3

      They have been telling this to us under various names for at least 30 years…

    • @maphuthumanemasilela8934
      @maphuthumanemasilela8934 5 місяців тому +4

      Fully agree, I've built a whole document management system using no code (focus on UI is no code but back end is Linux) and it's integrating nicely using no code API connectors.... so yes they shouldn't shoot it down because it didn't work for their particular use case. There is no time for learning how to code now... AI is taking over and people still want to learn how to code....

    • @CaptRespect
      @CaptRespect 5 місяців тому +1

      It will never be the future of development. Companies have been trying to sell this kind of thing forever with it never really working out.

    • @yogesh.asthana
      @yogesh.asthana 4 місяці тому

      @@maphuthumanemasilela8934exactly the point. If AI is to take over the code, why would you even need a low code platform when AI can write the code? Low code platform just doesn’t work. You will end up writing more code just to label your product as “low code”

    • @varungehlot5221
      @varungehlot5221 4 місяці тому

      @@CaptRespect But back then AI was not well developed right? Maybe things will be different in future. No code could be the future no?

  • @Chalisque
    @Chalisque 5 місяців тому +2

    The "no code" philosophy: there's no point learning to drive because everybody can simply catch a taxi.

  • @alexale5488
    @alexale5488 5 місяців тому +18

    Literally I don't understand why it is so hard for people who want to do "programmers stuff" to actually learn programming.
    It's really not that hard.
    No one asks people to play with memory allocation, pointers and low level C stuff.
    And there are great libraries for Python, Java and much more.
    Also, it was a time I was obsessed with abstractions. But I simply realized that the more abstraction you add to code, the less it can do. While it serves you good for a starting point, when you try to do more fancy stuff, you'll fight the abstractions 100x worse than if you wrote a little more complex code.
    That's one reason why I use vanilla CSS and I've never even tried CSS frameworks.
    Vanilla CSS is a bit more tedious in the beginning but it rewards you later if you're building a complex web application.
    Also, sometimes when I need to build GUIs (and the design matters) I use 2D libraries where I create my own widgets.And it's not really that hard.

    • @gaiustacitus4242
      @gaiustacitus4242 5 місяців тому +4

      Not everyone has the intelligence and/or dedication required to learn how to write software.

    • @alexale5488
      @alexale5488 5 місяців тому +2

      @@gaiustacitus4242 Then don't expect to be able to make software.

    • @gaiustacitus4242
      @gaiustacitus4242 5 місяців тому +4

      @@alexale5488 I'm explaining why not everyone learns to program. I've been writing software since 1976 when I started by writing in machine language.

    • @guillermosanchez1224
      @guillermosanchez1224 5 місяців тому

      bro is it still worth learning to code today with Ai around? I just made an extension with gpt 4o and it actually worked O.O

    • @gaiustacitus4242
      @gaiustacitus4242 5 місяців тому

      @@guillermosanchez1224 Does it? And does it work efficiently? Will it scale under higher user load? Does it actually do 100% of what you intended it to do?
      The closest I've had AI come to generating usable code included a bug that caused data corruption. This bug was difficult to detect.
      Most of the code generated by AI looks like the garbage produced by a programmer with a shiny new master's degree in computer science but lacking real world experience in a professional setting. If the code works, then the approach taken is very inefficient (especially when it comes to operations against a relational database management system).

  • @donparkison4617
    @donparkison4617 3 місяці тому +2

    I hate no code apps with a passion. And I cant stand managers, who have never written a line of code in their lives, pushing this stuff because they bought the hype and think us devs are just complaining for no reason.

  • @GrantSimplyNow
    @GrantSimplyNow 5 місяців тому +5

    Perfect for building internal tools in businesses up to 1,000 employees using them as web-Apps. They enable quicker faster decision making, a robust relational database and ease of automation. This gives you visibility, collaboration and efficiency. You just leverage the functionality they give.
    But I agree for some Apps it’s not going to work. The right tool…

  • @farahal8928
    @farahal8928 3 місяці тому +2

    Great review and loved the storytelling. What's an alternative for those who want to develop an APP without taking years to learn how to code tho? I was looking forward to the solution

  • @eliodrallag4806
    @eliodrallag4806 5 місяців тому +9

    Totally right, for MVP. these no code platforms are great.
    But the misconception about no code is that it there's few ways to build the app.
    But unfortunately, like the conventional coding you can create apps without error handling, having spaghetti code, unreadable layers of class or function.
    same with these no code platforms, you can do anything from scratch but scaling it will depends on how you built it.

  • @sanjaybhatikar
    @sanjaybhatikar 5 місяців тому +1

    These "no code" platforms are only good for the simplest, cookie-cutter use cases. They are a rip-off at best and a racket at worst. Great video, thanks!

  • @glamoagency5642
    @glamoagency5642 5 місяців тому +3

    Not to take from the validity of her overarching point, but to spend over a year with Flutter Flow and not learn the difference between Flutter the framework vs Dart the underlying language, and call Flutter "the backend", reflects poorly on her comprehension.

    • @glamoagency5642
      @glamoagency5642 5 місяців тому

      At no point did she argue against Flutter the framework or Dart the language, only against Flutter Flow the RAD tool (and possibly its default integration with the Firebase backend), so if we code in Dart/Flutter using VS Code we're good to go Dee? RAD tools have generated spaghetti code since their inception 30 years ago, with Motif/C toolkits on Unix. This is a story of no skills meets no code. I do agree on her point though, as one is largely sold a lie, which can still work if one stays inside the limited scope of the box.

  • @DQ940
    @DQ940 3 місяці тому +2

    It depends on what you're trying to build. For enterprise level highly custom apps, no-code platforms are terrible. But Ive had plenty of small business clients who have found them ideal for their needs.

  • @ShootingUtah
    @ShootingUtah 5 місяців тому +17

    As a computer scientist I can't help but think if you are thinking a no code solution can be a backbone of a startup of any kind you aren't technically skilled enough to be running a startup to begin with.

    • @johnpettiford6547
      @johnpettiford6547 5 місяців тому +19

      That’s because you fallaciously believe that startups are about knowing technology and not about knowing how to run a business.

    • @NoCodeProCode
      @NoCodeProCode 5 місяців тому +5

      The future of NoCode is Code + AI

    • @akejron1
      @akejron1 4 місяці тому +2

      Her mistake was knowing how to code. If she didn't, she would have hired coders and did what needs to be done and got on with the business.
      Instead, fell into a trap.
      Sometimes not knowing is better than knowing something.
      Wouldn't you agree dear Scientist?

  • @laxya7933
    @laxya7933 3 місяці тому +1

    I have been researching the same pain point might get revealed half way through the project, yes you made it clear thank you so much for saving my time and money on FF.

  • @michaelz8235
    @michaelz8235 5 місяців тому +5

    Just because YOU see it as a roadblock doesn't mean it is. It just means that YOU are not a good troubleshooter. I've been using No Code for about a decade without too many problems. And I know a bit of coding, too.

    • @bitcoinisfreedommoney.fckt2663
      @bitcoinisfreedommoney.fckt2663 4 місяці тому

      exactly

    • @Arekadiusz
      @Arekadiusz 4 місяці тому

      Just admit that you're doing apps with 2 view - one for login/register and second one with a big button, that does nothing :V And never needs to be updated.

  • @robgreene3956
    @robgreene3956 3 місяці тому +1

    No code just means you are following someone else's way of processing, living within their process, and limited by their ability to provide drag and drop services to limited experience people.
    For example: Excel is a no-code solution. It lets you input data, apply formulars, set presentation options. If provides charts and pivot tables at the click of a button. But if you want a business accounting system connected to your bank and inventory system, you can't use the no-code options of Excel.
    My point is, 'no-code' has been around in various names for over 25 years. Software engineers are still needed to create real business and game software.

  • @jonloi3794
    @jonloi3794 5 місяців тому +18

    Disagree. FF has been phenomenal for me for visual frontend ui development. I use APIs, cloud functions and firebase for the rest of my App's functionality. You have to know what you're doing and adapt to the tool you are using. If you want to use an Axe to cut paper, well sure you're going to have problems

    • @b_31_mohitkumarlavatre11
      @b_31_mohitkumarlavatre11 4 місяці тому +1

      But the issue was marketing I guess. Those who are new to development would get stuck.

  • @SoftwareSimian_
    @SoftwareSimian_ 4 місяці тому +1

    As an architect, when I'm interviewing clients, if I find no-code anywhere near a real product, it will cost them twice my normal rate if I'm feeling nice.

  • @gopiraj5
    @gopiraj5 5 місяців тому +11

    In short, NO CODE app development is still a work in progress. But they are going to rule this segment in the near future as they are investing a lot in streamlining these gaps.

    • @reasondro
      @reasondro 5 місяців тому +5

      Nah don't think so, No code will struggle in large scale apps

    • @Masterhunter325
      @Masterhunter325 5 місяців тому +2

      Bubble was launched in 2016. And it mostly did not change since then.

    • @Real-Name..Maqavoy
      @Real-Name..Maqavoy 5 місяців тому

      Not good enough.

  • @SuperDanielHUN
    @SuperDanielHUN 4 місяці тому +2

    Low code / no code is only as good as the actual code behind it. It either works for you 100%, or you will never get it to work the exact way you want and need compromises. Reality is, if you want customisation, you must go down to the programming language.

  • @mikewiendels2589
    @mikewiendels2589 5 місяців тому +4

    FYI for people watching this - The Bubble section here is complete bullshit & based on a random Medium article. I'd recommend talking to a few pro Bubble devs & asking them to show what they've built.

  • @breezycodes
    @breezycodes 3 місяці тому +1

    I say it to clients and devs all the time, unless what you are doing is super super simple( just displaying static data), don't use a no code tool. I see ppl regret it every single time

  • @zelli840
    @zelli840 5 місяців тому +5

    I feel like half the enjoyment of being a software engineer or having a great idea is making it a reality with your own two hands.
    yeah if these services worked perfectly that would be great but even then it would take away the enjoyment. Learning, building and finishing your ideas.
    For all the gamers out there it like starting your minecraft survival world in creative only to switch it to survival later. Yeah you got head start but now there is no point because you didn't go through the stuggle. The journey is the rewarding part not the finish line.
    Shortcuts rarely pay off. But idk thats just how i feel. Maybe I am wrong.
    -edit : Great video tho

    • @T1Oracle
      @T1Oracle 5 місяців тому +1

      Fun and earning and income are very different things.

    • @zelli840
      @zelli840 5 місяців тому

      @@T1Oracle True. Usually though the easier it to make the money the easier it is to lose it. But your still right, if it worked perfectly it would be a good way to start a business fast.

    • @xybersurfer
      @xybersurfer 5 місяців тому

      @@zelli840 even if you didn't need the money. time is a valuable resource. just like you don't do everything in code the hard way now. you would probably would the monotonous work at some point. it's probably just hard to see it now. there is value in coding because when these things are a service (SaaS). because you wouldn't a few companies in control of that. i would be more comfortable with these perfectly working services to be open sourced first, so that it's common knowledge

  • @MissMyMusicAddiction
    @MissMyMusicAddiction 3 місяці тому +1

    No code has been a scam that has been perpetrated for 30 years.
    Even "low code" is a misleading scam. Eventually the devs of these tools eventually realize this, and abandon the illusion.
    Primarily, these tools allow n00bs to make mini-prototypes that we, as devs, can then use as models to take to build real apps.

  • @mrfifty434
    @mrfifty434 5 місяців тому +17

    You talk a lot of not being able to complete it and being restricted, but not a lot of the actual issue you was facing. What couldn't you do in FF?

    • @pathumwijayasooriya4302
      @pathumwijayasooriya4302 4 місяці тому

      exactly.

    • @beavenjnr4187
      @beavenjnr4187 4 місяці тому +2

      I think this is a circljrk of seasoned engineers who are discouraging the new tool on the block. A tool not meant for them. Its like a premier pro power user bashing capcut or the basic phome video editor for its lack of features.

    • @sateIIitepilot
      @sateIIitepilot 4 місяці тому

      @@beavenjnr4187 Not even close, capcut actually makes videos and pros use it too, genius, if you want to use nocode go for it.

    • @sateIIitepilot
      @sateIIitepilot 4 місяці тому

      She explained exactly the problem, she got most of the way there and couldn't complete the app because of code errors knucklehead

    • @funloverdavis1796
      @funloverdavis1796 3 місяці тому

      I'm not a premiere pro guru, but I'm decent. I tried Capcut and haven't really gone back since. For what I need, it can output good enough quality In a fraction of the time and computing resources.
      The democratization of different fields in the past 20 years has made a lot of the old guard gatekeepers really annoyed. Because for a lot of average practitioners, they found themselves being out competed by relative newcomers with really good tools.

  • @jsimmonstx
    @jsimmonstx 20 днів тому

    Low/no-code dev has ruined more projects than I can count. The reason is that once management has decided to use it, and subsequently sunk so much money into it that they won't admit their mistake and make the necessary pivot to real code development. I've experienced the low-no code paradigm three times, and on my last job, they asked for opinions, I gave them tangible proof that it was a bad idea, and they went ahead anyway. I simply quit the position because I didn't want any part of it.

  • @gianlucamb9
    @gianlucamb9 5 місяців тому +14

    No-code is not a trap, it's just new. With time it will become quite powerful but obviously not to the extent of a fully coded app. Choose your type of development based on the use case. Comparing both head to head is just dumb.

    • @Oncopoda
      @Oncopoda 5 місяців тому +11

      It's not that new, and almost by definition, it can never be that powerful. The whole point of a high level abstraction like no code is that you're trading control for convenience.

    • @rogimx
      @rogimx 5 місяців тому +12

      No-code is as old as code itself. Definitely is not new. It's just unrealistic. For anyone who have worked on any company that has more than a few clients knows how fast everything changes. Clients require new features or changing in the existing ones all the time. Libraries get updated, platforms changes their APIs. It's just too fluid for any no-code promise to catch up.

    • @portlyoldman
      @portlyoldman 5 місяців тому +3

      We tried a no code product back in the late seventies, it was awful! Tried them several times since and every time one very quickly runs out of functionality as soon as you get deep into the requirements. I’d REALLY like it to be a thing, but there comes a point in every app where you exceed the capabilities of the no code platform and then you are down a deep rabbit hole bridging the gap between what is needed and what is possible 😵‍💫

    • @unfortunatewitnessX
      @unfortunatewitnessX 5 місяців тому

      Uh oh! All the same, I wouldn't be giving up on my dream of learning to code my own apps anytime soon, because I would love to learn to solve problems.

    • @mudi2000a
      @mudi2000a 5 місяців тому +1

      If you think no code is new then it just means that you are young.

  • @MartinRojas
    @MartinRojas 3 місяці тому +2

    No code is for proof of concept or to validate a business idea. It will never go further than that. If it could they would be doing your business

  • @arnbrandy
    @arnbrandy 4 місяці тому +3

    As a software engineer with almost two decades of experience, I would happily recommend no code. Why? Well, my employer sells one of these solutions. Daddy needs these EoY bonuses, baby 😂
    Jokes aside, yeah, no code stops helping really fast. But it can be very useful for prototyping and PoCs. You don’t have a humongous spreadsheet because you did something wrong, you have it because you outgrow the spreadsheet.
    That said… I REALLY doubt that startup from the Reddit comment failed due to no code. Didn’t they just rewrite all of it in one week? You have to have serious problems to a SUCCESSFUL two-week rewrite ground you.

  • @bit_Jon_Trader
    @bit_Jon_Trader 5 місяців тому +1

    This video saved me tons of time. They feel confused for a reason. Thank you.

  • @ManuelBasiri
    @ManuelBasiri 5 місяців тому +7

    I absolutely LOVE No code platforms. They are extremely useful for the real purpose they serve. They are best at distracting and consuming wanna be excited butterfly people who want to pretend to be developers and take them out of the way of real developers who go deep in the code and actually deliver working products.

  • @bellissimo4520
    @bellissimo4520 4 місяці тому +1

    Just a small detail - "Flutter" is not a language, but a UI framework, based on the programming language "Dart". I tried it once and found it quite cool - got something nice running with very little code (compared to horribly cluttered coding in good old Java). But then when I re-opened that project 3 months later, a lot was broken and did not build anymore, once my IDE had updated Flutter. After looking at the release notes for Flutter, I realized that they seem to introduce breaking changes all the time... and this is a no-go for me. I guess I will keep looking for a better alternative.

  • @skayu2000
    @skayu2000 5 місяців тому +3

    FlutterFlow is like buying a ticket to a supposedly luxurious cruise only to find out you’re stuck on a leaky boat with a guide who only speaks Klingon. Stick to more reliable way of full code, be it native, react native, flutter unless you enjoy a good challenge and have a tech wizard on standby!

  • @freddiechipres
    @freddiechipres 5 місяців тому +1

    100% agreed. I started building on bubble, but once i heard about issues with scaling. I backed out right away. Now developing my project with code with the help of AI and no looking back 😎

  • @TheTechnoTuber
    @TheTechnoTuber 5 місяців тому +40

    Summary of video: if you know what MVP *really* means and you need to validate an idea, no code is the tool. For an MMP, go standalone.
    In other words, no code is not a trap if you know what your objective is. So of course title is misleading and is based on a false premise. (Sorry)

    • @codingwithdee
      @codingwithdee  5 місяців тому +32

      Yo thanks for watching and giving your opinion. I appreciate all feedback.🫡 FYI No where on flutterflow or bubble do they mention MVP, it’s all “full scalable, production ready” app creation, so I do disagree with you. (Sorry)
      but thanks for watching (and please come back)

    • @flagger1
      @flagger1 5 місяців тому +22

      She's not wrong. The thing is, these no code platforms advertise themselves like that, and she's just clearing it out for people that isn't always the case
      That isn't misleading or false in any way

    • @Many_paths_one_life
      @Many_paths_one_life 5 місяців тому

      Thanks for the great vid. I have been looking for a video that helped me understand why I need to just jump in and write the code instead of trying to struggle with a “do it all” platform. I like the “proof of concept” use case much better now. Cheers!

    • @abx_egamer4874
      @abx_egamer4874 5 місяців тому

      She is ryt man. No code development is simply not development at all.

    • @gweltazlemartret6760
      @gweltazlemartret6760 5 місяців тому +2

      1:30 is the timecode of the begining of the end.
      No code "just works", and any personalization is doomed to fail or require an insane amount of energy and/or knowledge, that starting with code might have been better.
      One can’t know that beforehand just looking at ads, so this vid is here to inform others that "no code" isn’t magic.
      And as said by the comment, if you *know* what an MVP (minimal viable product) implies, no code can be the right tool.

  • @iannyanes
    @iannyanes 4 місяці тому +1

    IMO no code tools are for early stage products when their UI features are actually an Advantage. My rule of thumb: you can pitch, search investors, showcase and give guidance to a development team with no code tools… you can’t go to production with no code. Now, I would really doubt any “coder” or “programmer” that does not know that in advance…

  • @ignasgs8005
    @ignasgs8005 5 місяців тому +6

    Just for views 👎

  • @spencerjones3591
    @spencerjones3591 Місяць тому +1

    No code developer here. I've worked with over 20 companies where I have told them, no code is best to explore and then you full code your legacy product...
    To date, none of those companies have moved off of the No-Code apps we've built.
    #AppsheetsLiveForever