It has already been mentioned on other videos, but it's worth repeating: it is very refreshing that you speak so highly about products from other manufacturers.
As he should have because there are other great manufacturers out there. Particularly when it comes to speakers. Paul's crew is just starting to make speakers and there have been other manufacturers that have been making speakers for 40 to 50 years so you bet he should give them credit
Yeah...probably for PS audio amps. My Yaqin tube amp choked on the LRS. Immediately pressed my trusty Musical Fidelity X-150v3 imto service. Now driving them with Bryston 3Bsst. LRS are now singing happily with a pair of RELs 🎶🤫🎶
I own 2 pairs of Magnepans that I have set up in a horizontal line array. With that being said, they are my speakers and part of my setup and my setup is important to me and part of who I am so... if you want to be my girlfriend/spouse/partner etc, the system is part of the whole package. Take it or leave it. I’m not a jerk about it, it just is what is. If your “partner“ doesn’t understand or care that something as simple as an audio system can bring a person so much joy and is important, they’re probably not the right partner for you.
I've been fortunate that my wife, while still wanting things to look OK, appreciates great musical especially with the volume turned up. We purchased our first pair of Maggies (MG1's) in 1982. We ran them for decades with first a Hafler kit (I did it) and then a NAD receiver. About a year and a half ago, we thought that our hearing was going as the speakers sounded really really soft/mushy. Turns out our hearing was OK, the Maggies were delaminating. Purchased our second pair, 1.7's with a Rel subwoofer and thought they were better. A year later, we swapped out the NAD for a Cambridge streamer and a pair of PS Audio Stellar Monoblocks.....we had an OMG experience. We are now awaiting the arrival of a BHK preamp and Rega Phono preamp in order to hook up our vintage Technics SL 1301 which has been sitting in a box, along with our old albums...because my wife wants to hear/feel vinyl. The speakers have always been a "furniture statement" in our living room.
listening to Paul, I always feel guilty that I don't own any PS Audio gear. He is a very fine gentleman. One of these days I will have to buy something from him!
My wife chose the Magnepans when I had narrowed it down to 3 speakers. Her ears are better than mine. She likes anything in the living room that is related to good music. When I suggested an indoor pool in the living room she had a problem, though.
I'm an engineer and just picked up a set of 1.7i's. My girl thinks they look super cool. They're "techy and just like you." Just as the person wrote in, we can push them out of the way easy enough (they're built like tanks!) and can move them into listening position very easily. So they DO get approval occasionally!
I often hear that Maggies are not dynamic, having owned a pair of 1.7i for 2 years I do not agree with that sentiment and do not feel I am missing out on any dynamics. Having listened to many other systems I'm always drawn back to their unmatched imaging and airy sound.
Own a pair of 1.7i's myself. If they lack dynamics, either I haven't heard better, I don't know what that even means, or it requires an extremely coordinated system/room for that to become true, because I honestly haven't noticed a lack of "dynamics." IF we're talking intensity, On my DSD of Shostakovich 7, they go from reproducing the most subtle drumbeat to the pitched battle of the Allegretto's march pretty much perfectly, and on par with any live performance of it I've heard. If we're talking frequency range, the top is a bit "hot," but with the attenuators in and my REL dialed just right, the dynamic range is awesome. The highs are clear and crisp, the mids are rich and full, and the bass is balanced and impactful, and they take over just as they need to with nothing ever sounding "recessed" or "dull." And, for me, the hologram is still compelling and everything is musical. I will concede that I lack anywhere close to a perfect listening environment, and I have exceptionally modest electronics, so maybe if I were pushing their ability to "reveal" to capacity something SOMEWHERE will start to lack and the "lack of dynamics" might start to emerge, but if there is any weakness in my system as it stands, it's my ears, not the setup, and I don't know if I'll be getting to a point where I notice such things any time soon.
@@mr.bennett108 Awesome info! I'm glad to hear you have a great setup. I've been eyeing REL to pair with the speakers but was wondering how well they integrate with the Maggies. Do they have the speed to keep up with them? Which model do you have or would recommend? Thanks!
flashhog01 I enjoyed the dual REL T/9i with my 1.7i setup, but I ultimately went with dual Rythmik L12. I slightly preferred the Rythmik in terms of speed, and they happened to be cheaper too.
@@EliasTheHunter That is great to hear! Recently I have been looking at Rythmik over the REL subs and am glad to hear they work well for you and are quick enough to keep up with your Maggies.
@@flashhog01 Great! Which ones are you thinking about? I don't think subs are 100% necessary, but I'm glad that I got them. I used a calibrated microphone and REW and the frequency response is reasonable. Not completely flat, but it's good enough to my ears that I'm not bothering with any software room correction or even EQ changes at this time.
Having loved and lived with 1.6, 2.5r and 3.6r Maggies, I would argue that they can be dynamic. Paul's sub recommendation is absolutely step one as even the largest Maggies start to taper off at 60-70 Hz (Rel or Vandy shine with IMHO). The next step is power. As they are inefficient, they eat current and turn it into improved low volume and higher volume dynamics. My 3.6s really came to life with >800 Watts per channel @4Ohm. They like high power switching class D or well controlled / regulated AB. Even with this expense, you'll come out ahead of many cone or hybrid speakers with higher efficiency and lower cost amps. Oh, and my wife recommends others listen to the speakers and stop looking at them.
I like Maggies a lot too, but the old Apogee line taught us that ribbons (with quasi-ribbon woofers) could in fact be dynamic. I think Maggies are very lightweight in accordance with their excellent value, and therefore the frames react to the music. Adding mass or additional stiffening structures to a Maggie might help. Apogees were always far heavier than the comparably sized Maggies. My Apogee Full Range speakers (the original) weight over 300 pounds each. That provides a solid anchor for the drivers and as a result they can be very dynamic, provided you drive them with enough juice.
@@andershammer9307 Mye stands fix that, though the measurements I've seen didn't show a huge difference. Re size, Maggies can reproduce a symphony orchestra in its full dimensions, which boxes are hard-pressed to do, that's one of the things I love about dipole line sources. Voices can sometimes get too big if they're miked up close. But what I've found is that if you put absorption behind them you can get very precise imaging. I don't think there's any speaker that can do it all, large spaces and small intimate ones, because of the limitations of two channel stereo.
Agree, MG are on the cheapest build quality side of all the planar speakers. You've to hear a pair of Alsyvox to realize how should sound a planar seriously built !
My wife has an issue with Magnapans but not because of the size etc but because she doesn't like the sound. I still have them and we make compromises. Thats a part of life.
Of course the dynamics of Magnepan speakers can be helped. Have an amplifier with plenty of power and current. 200 watts sounds like a lot but this needs to be full spectrum with low distortion and with plenty of current. Magnepans are open baffle and unless they are the 30.7s will roll off at the extreme low end. Any power you send to them below their useful range will be absolutely wasted and will add distortion and dynamic limitation in the range where they reproduce sound well. Add a subwoofer and only send high pass frequencies to the panels. They will then only have to reproduce the frequencies above the sub crossover point and this will result in excursions that are more within the design limits for the vibrating diaphragm (imagine trying to reproduce a 10 dB midbass peak when the panel is already pushed to its excursion limit with a 30-40Hz bass note. It's not going to happen!). Magnepans have one of the least fatiguing sounds I have ever heard from a loudspeaker. I have heard many expensive and well reviewed and "dynamic" sounding speakers that cause fatigue after a short time because what makes them sound dynamic is not necessarily the source material but a physical artifact caused by their design resulting in their own peculiar "ringing" or "honking". In my experience Magnepans sound more "real" overall period. PS. I have a pair of excellent "box" speakers in my home theater. They sound awesome with movies and a lot of music genres but I use my Magnepans for critical listening and the enjoyment of true high fidelity. Sometimes I'm taken aback even when listening to music coming from my FM tuner. Some sounds come out of nowhere that make me look or turn down the volume to see if something is actually in the room causing the sound.
I really suggest everyone check out Mikey’s videos over at “OCD HiFi Guy” He’s a audio engineer of sorts and designs and builds audio products. He modified his Maggie’s and made them sound even better than they were out of the box. Total overhaul including crossover and frame/waveguide. His progress is on his UA-cam channel. Check it out!!!
Add a PAIR, not a single sub. If you are after dynamics, the difference is amazing. I own a pair of maggie 1.7's, and added a single REL S-2(no longer available). After about 2yrs. of being sort of happy, I added another REL S-2, used, but mint). Holy crap, what a huge difference. The bass filled out and transformed a pretty good system, into one that stops you in your tracks!!
Hmmm. I just found out the speakers I have owned and loved for the last 35 years have no dynamics. And all this time I thought they did. A planar speaker, like my Sound Lab electrostatics and Magnaplanars, do indeed need to be large to produce significant bass and dynamics. The .7 is not very big, so as any other small speaker, they won't have deep bass and strong dynamics. My "other" speakers, homemade with 15" woofers and a very large (40" long) horn midrange, are indeed more dynamic than my electrostatics, but they actually take up more space than do the panel speakers. A dynamic woofer either has to be large or have a very long throw to produce it's bass and dynamics. I too love Magnapans, that like my Sound Labs, have a delicacy and transparency that box speakers cannot match. They are also both line sources, which means their imaging is amazing.
I know this is an old video but I have found that driving each of my Magnepan 3.7i speakers with a Rogue Audio M-180 Dark Mono Block tube Amp with a Rogue Audio RP-7 Preamp sounds more dynamic and open and provides plenty of power. Also for the bottom end I added a Rel T7 sub for each speaker and this combination seems to hit the sweet spot.
Something quick like a RiPole!! The most musical Subwoofer I have ever heard. They pair very well with Magnepans / Electrostats as they are an OB / Dipole setup and excite far fewer nulls than other subs.
and you can't locate them , even if they are placed right next to you . They really dissapear . Built already 2 pairs : one 2x12 inch and one 2x15 inch and starting on a 2x18 inch with 25 mm Xmax each way : should give me over 103 dB SPL mono at 20 Hz , 113 at 28 and a mind blowing 119 at 40 Hz
I switched to Maggies from Klipsch La Scalas when I moved to a much smaller listening room. I use a pair of good subwoofers and VTL deLux 140 tube amps. My impression is that they are extremely dynamic, but only within their limits, which is quite low in level. Pushed, they become less dynamic and if one tries to overcome their limitations by goosing them a bit they become even less dynamic. At low enough levels and with appropriate amplification and subwoofing they are, to my ears, MUCH more dynamic than "dynamic" speakers.
*Question:* How many audiophiles who complain about Maggie dynamics are using vinyl as a source?? Magnepan recommend Bryston amps for decent current delivery. I have no issue with the LRS&RELs dynamic delivery on acoustic music, jazz and classical. Obviously the recordings aren't compressed mush! Or tastefully compressed vinyl... I move upstairs to my 2.2 box speaker system for Reggae. Its " our house" with two music rooms arranged around the stereo systems;-)
You can mitigate a lack of dynamics with power power power! 200 watts, though it seems like a lot, can actually be inadequate for a Maggie. Depends on a number of factors, but when you overpower magnepans they can come alive in surprising ways. There are people who use 1000 watt monoblocs with magnepans for this reason. The quality of the power also matters. Magnepans can become expensive when you factor in optimal amplification, though this also depends on a number of factors.
Great review Maggie's are awesome but very tough to drive. 4 ohm load and 86 sensitivity rating on most of them. Usually powered by Macs or bryston. I used parasound, anthem, bryston , classe and rotel power amps on my 3.6r and all were good. But they all were high power amps. I've heard several models and i Owned the 3.6r Awesome speakers and one of my favorites ! they do need a sub ... 2 is always better . lol Also they should be five feet out from the front wall. ( very least 3ft. ) Which is also a tough sell for the wife. But they are fantastic. Everything has trade offs.
I am getting huge dynamics and bass out of a pair of LRS ,,,,, the secret is a large solid state amp with big caps and tons of headroom .... look for 400 watts going into 4 ohms
Yes indeed. I drive mine with a big old Crown DC300A from 1974. They sound GREAT. Like you say -- big caps, tons of headroom. In my case, direct coupled.
Well I don't have the wifey problem anymore. Thank GOD!!!!! But I just LOVE MY ACOUSTATS!!! So when a lady friend comes over and SAY WHAT ARE THOSE BIG UGLY THINGS DOING IN YOUR LIVING ROOM, I say to myself WHO U and she is BANISHED FROM MY LIFE!!!! because I am THE MAN OF MY CASTLE!!!! SHE CAN GO KICK ROCKS. 😆
@room-ten-oh-nine !- When different utility (power, cable, etc,) workers have to get in my backyard they always ask about that short/tall mound of earth with the grass growing on it, in an otherwise flat backyard. I say, that? My ex, she was short and fat! LOL!
I've owned Magnepans since 1978 when I heard my first pair, the Tympani 1d's. I currently have two audio systems based on Magnepan speakers, including a full surround Magnepan system with 1.7 mains, a CC3 center and mmg surrounds. It sounds so realistic on music. I have always used a subwoofer with my magnepans though, just to deliver that bottom octave that maggies are not ideal in producing. That sub needs to be fast though to keep up with the panels. I've found that servo based subs work best with Magnepan mains.
Heh, I had 1D's too. If you want bottom octave bass, try finding a pair of Tympani IVA's -- the 3 dB point on mine is 25 Hz. Not quite subwoofer territory, but the realism of the bass is just astounding and in my small room there's enough slam to do chest compression, which I've never felt from a planar before.
I don't know the specific amp that your correspondent mentioned, but sheer power isn't enough. In my experience, the amp needs LOTS of headroom and needs non-switching power supply. I have amazing imaging and dynamics from my MG1Bs (from 1983!) -- I drive them with recently refurbished Crown gear -- DC300A power amp and IC150 preamp, both from 1974. BTW, I enthusiastically agree with your recommendation to add a sub. I use a consumer-grade powered sub (I forget the brand) that works just fine. I think I bought it from Best Buy 20 years ago (I don't remember the specifics). It has a downward-firing cone, and I keep it in the corner behind one of the Maggies. I am fortunate that my wife of 20 years is fine with my Maggies. We have contemplated installing drapes that close in front of the speakers and 70" flat panel monitor while we're entertaining. OTOH, our guests are often so curious about the media system that they enjoy watching and listening.
I have and like to throw the little furry mofos, they would only get one chance at my speakers, after that PETA would be real angry with me. Oh calm down, just kidding, my kids and wife would try to throw me if I did all that, just a day dream I guess. I'm actually shopping around and listening to various hifi especially speakers and Magies are on my radar, and yes my cats must be considered however it troubles me!!!
@@shroud1390 LOL! LOL!... what a GREAT idea! And if you do this a couple of times, it's guaranteed your cat won't go near them. She might be a distant observer but, she will circumnavigate them to avoid another blast.
@@m.9243 yep you got it. Cats HATE loud noises. Fwiw my cats never complained about dynamics... Fwiw I helped the dynamics by modding them. Well i lowered the noise floor so it sounded more dynamic.
And.. With that much Love- I've got to fire up my Maggies- MK-IIs Which they DO and will produce a hefty amount of base if positioned correctly in the room. BTW- spouse loves them too!
when i was 15-18 we used to always have house parties at my one friends house and his dad has magneplanars in his media room, we used to always plug in to the aux and play our electronic music out of them and get wasted, funny i always knew they were very high end speakers but not that they were this special
I'd love to get Maggie 1.7i's but my space is large, some say too large: 26 x 22 x 15 ft high. One dealer told me that Maggies would be lost in my room and sound tinny without closer walls to serve as boundaries. Is this true? One reason I want them is that I like a vertical floor-to-ceiling soundstage.
If you want dynamics from Maggies, you need an amplifier with a very high-quality power supply. They can do dynamics just fine. And a lot of people don't like using subwoofers with Maggies because the incredible "quickness" of the treble is difficult to integrate with a large dynamic woofer, which significantly impacts the imaging. Deep bass can be fun in certain types of music, but if you're limited on room size and/or if you don't want to bother your neighbors, 50hz extension is fine.
in the beginning of my relation the 3.7i's where up to debate a couple times including the big 60" screen, i gave here the solution that if we could afford a house with a dedicated room to watch tv and sit down for music, it would solve the problem :) that ended the discussion for me at least.
it matters not that a recording doesn't have bass as a feature but believe me, it is there and the sense of room and imaging is always enhanced and the realism becomes evident. also, a person doesn't need to spend a fortune to get that result. i am partial to Rythmik subs which are smaller and less costly than the admittedly very good RELs. the other factor that the fellow mentioned was additional power. i am quite prone to have a tubed preamplifier of good pedigree and plenty of ss power on hand for dynamic and impact along with speaker safety. paul, you certainly are aware that passing a distorted signal through whatever voice coil that is in use is asking for voicecoil burnout. i am happiest with no less than 100wpc or more. in the affordable and refined category are Rogue electronics whereas i use an ADCOM 555II. i have heard some VERY nice sounding systems using a Rogue integrated of about 100pwc at Brian Berdan's store in Pasadena CA. ...hifitommy
Just bought the .7 Magnepans on 5/24 and use them with a Rogue Sphinx V3 at 100 WPC with a tube preamp in this excellent integrated amp and they sound fantastic. I prefer to use them with good quality vinyl with a decent table and cartridge. CDs can sound good if recorded without too much compression. My streamed music is also excellent 80% of the time depending on the source material. I love Magnepan speakers and have since the late 1970s. Mine aren't even broken in yet.
Hi Paul , I want to say first I have Always loved your talks and so Respected your candor and Truthfulness, I haven't always agreed with everything you say but I always appreciate you are helping people - and for 98% of it I do agree! - Now for the unfortunate reality, either you just haven't heard about Magneplanar Mods or because of your past love of Magneplanars you don't want to say Anything bad about the Company. And for the most part they are a Great company.... But they seem to Absolutely dislike anyone modding their Speakers! - All you have to do is track down all of what has been said on the different forums and it is plain to see how the company feels about Magnepan mods. - The Truth is that like just about everything in audio they are built to a price point. And their sales model is mostly about making their Speakers affordable, which is Absolutely great! --- - But also doesn't come close to the Real TRUTH about their potential. -- I am now going to say something that many will Not believe unless they care enough to hear it for themselves , or do the research - - - not only CAN they be Modified but if you haven't heard them after the possible Mods, then you haven't HEARD how AMAZINGLY GOOD that they Can REALLY sound!! - Once Modded they will ABSOLUTELY BLOW your Mind... and not only Will they have Great BASS, and not only will they sound GREAT playing ROCK , but once Modded you will find that the Magnepan driver is also capable of much greater resolution than anyone Ever Imagined , and once their problems are corrected they can compete with almost all other speakers, but more than that according to those who have heard them they beat most all the competition as well!!!!! - ONE CAVIET ...... the mods MUST be done on Magnepan's older models, the COMPANY so dislikes people modding their speakers that they have redesigned all the newer models and although they do sound better than they did , they still aren't even close to their potential and they basically are a waste of time and money to try and mod, and the results won't come close to what is possible with the older models. Thank you for caring about your fellow audiophiles! Kind regards, Dean --- YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH ---
There is a "relatively inexpensive" solid core speaker cable called "Anticables" that does 'Wonders' for the dynamics of Magneplanars. The "Maggie" panels are capable of producing a more extended low frequency response without the addition of a Dynamic Subwoofer once you stop trying to treat them like Dynamic Speakers.
I added a REL Stentor to my MGIIIs years ago. They made everything sound better. Even a soprano sounded better and they do give the illusion of better dynamics.
I have had "maggies" for many years powered with 200w. per channel amps -- and no sub-woofer. Depending on what I'm listening to, I move them around both forward or back and twisting them on a vertical axis. This allows me to fine tune the bass response.
Go to the magnepan group on facebook. Also I would have to disagree that Maggies dont require a lot of power. They don't require a lot of power to make noise, but to make them properly sing ample power and current are required.
Positioning is critical. I'm lucky enough to have a dedicated music room and this enables my Quad 57s to be placed according to the rule of thirds. In that quite deep room position they do have a decent amount of dynamics, though I obviously make that observation in the context of an electrostatic. I would imagine the same effect would apply to Magneplanars.
Hi, Paul, I realize you may have more queries than you can always get to, but was wondering if you could answer one quick one. I have one of those nice big, vintage Dak subwoofers from the early to mid-80's (think Scandinavian mid-century Modern as big as a piece of furniture or end table) whick I wanted to see if you thought was quick enough to power the fast ribbons in the Magnepans enough to make a perceptible difference and improvement in the bass response of my equally vintage Magneplanars? Sorry for the drawn-out question, but I trust that you get the gist of it. I would be integrating with a Harmon-Kardon 795i vintage receiver and a vintage Denon L60 turntable. If not, do you think the Rel(?) amp you suggested would be better or a Hegel 64 amp would be all that is needed as others have suggested (or maybe use both the subwoofer and amp?). Would greatly appreciate any insight and wisdom. Be well. Thomas
Adding a sub for sure adds dynamic range it will lift the speakers up to new levels And my wife loves the look of magnepans! I am the one that’s a bit less happy with the look 😂 true story !
We got to get off this foundation that music is being played from a symphony...this seems to be a recurring theme every time a topic is discussed. Maybe the guy likes music that's just not suited for those speakers. And as far as subs, again as I've often commented, you'll get low frequency but will never be in phase with a speaker like that. Crucial. Without a close phase with the mains, to me, it's just not in sync and sloppy. Phase is everything between a sub and your mains and one day I hope you'll comment on that. You don't just hook-up a sub to a bookshelf or a speaker as lean as a Mag and say problem solved...I now have low end. Doesn't work that way, especially in your pursuit for great sound.
Yes, they have a prototype called mini 30.7 where they used dipole woofers with a DSP front end. Not in production yet but a lot of people can DIY using the DSP units available and dipole woofer plans. BUT the midrange and tweeter panels need to be 5 feet away from the walls behind them. Who can do that in theor living room??
I love Maggies more than anything, but they are limited in many aspects, and you sort of just have to take the good with the bad, because the good is the BEST
I have my Magnepan set up in the spare bedroom, I’ll be looking to move them in to the study once decorated. If the wife doesn’t like the plain black panels, I have been thinking to get some fabric covers on them., maybe a canvas of a flower like the Depeche Mode violator album artwork
I have an old pair of 3.3r's with a decent 100w/ch amp and listen to rock and jazz and loud volumes. The best thing I ever did was to move my listening position as far forward as the soundstage image would allow. Per Paul's suggestion in an earlier video, I kept inching forward and at one point, the bass and mid-bass dynamics just bloomed out. Now, it took a few weeks of fiddling with toe-in and wall distances and all that other shit before I was happy, but now I am. I've found the Maggies to be very sensitive to chair position but very consistent in their reaction to changes. If I want a bit more space in the image, I move a bit (6", not more) back. If I want back row in a concert hall, I move 12-24" back. If I want to be in Ozzy's lap, I just about have the Maggies in my lap. Don't buy any equipment until you've spent allot of time on your room set-up.
That seems to me to be the audiophile equivalent of "How long is a piece of string?" What type of music will you be recording? What are the studio dimensions? What room treatments are in place? Will they be doing double duty and used for recording and mixing, or will they be used for both? What monitors are you currently using and why are you needing to upgrade? Why are you asking on a forum dominated by listeners, rather than one devoted to recording? BTW, my answer regardless is: "Fucked if I know!" Same answer as when the nurse asked me who the current prime minister of Australia was. He said: "Correct!"
Interesting view, although I never liked Maggies. I can see why people like them, but I found their portrayal of solo instruments unrealistic. But that's what's great about our hobby: we can find different things we can appreciate.
If I have a music room in my house no woman is going to dictate what speakers I listen to PERIOD! Hey fellas pick 3: a dog, a pair of MAGNEPANS, a new car, a girlfriend. GOODBYE girlfriend! LMAO!
I have 0.7 have never had Problems since I hooked them up to the kinki exm-1. Before on a cheap pioneer amp I could hear why People think they have bad Dynamics. For me amplification is the answer...
He doesn't like Martin Logan's as he has stated before for various reasons I suppose. In my opinion they are better than Maggies. I have some older rather large Martin Logan's that have a great bass down to 30 Hertz. Martin Logan's get a bad wrap because people claim that the bass does not blend well with the panel, but I don't have any issues with my sl3s. They are crossed over rather low.
@@Josh442 not with mine, some of the newer ones are crossed over a lot higher but,mine are older and are crossed over much lower. Also nothing beats the mid-range and highs of an Electrostatic speaker period. So while newer and lower end models may suffer from this, some older models, and higher-end models do not. However everyone just repeats what they hear, so they think every model sounds the same, which is false. I enjoy my Martin Logan sl3's way you more than anything magnepan is putting out... Plus I don't need a subwoofer just to actually enjoy music...
@@JohnDoe-jm5ul Well, as you say, I haven't heard them all! And I agree that the mids and highs of electrostatics have a clarity that nothing matches (short of an ionic tweeter, anyway). Not all Maggies require subs, though -- my Tympani IVA's are -3 dB at 25 Hz, and have enough slam to do chest compression, something I've never experienced with another planar woofer. The 30.7's go even lower, they're flat to 20 Hz. But it requires big panels to do that. I know someone online who has a "best of all worlds" setup -- he uses a Martin-Logan for the mids and highs, crosses over to Tympani panels for the upper bass, and then uses a rotary woofer below 30 Hz!
@@JohnDoe-jm5ul I heard the TOTL and a few rungs below from Martin Logan at the NY Audio Show and they are incredible. I didn't really pay attention to the bass much, but the midrange and treble were spooky good. The bass seemed fine to me, but I really didn't listen that intently to it.
My wife and all the woman who have ever seen my maggies love how they look. Certainly much more so than some exotic boxes. I would disagree....I think woman are for more attracted to the thin panel than many other designs.....Vacuum tube amps my wife just doesn't dig....Oh well they generally do not match my budget in order to drive maggies anyway.
No they don’t I am sorry got 4 pairs of planars including the tympani 3 panels per side. They all lack low end of you call that “good” You clearly have no idea what low end is suppose to sound like
lot of guys are push overs if your wife doesnt accept that you like/want/have large speakers, then you may want to consider finding another woman who accepts you.
Yeah I could not tolerate that, I think that issue should brought up right out of the gate in a relationship if audio is important to you before becoming invested in a woman too long.
Right on the money, there always will be factors in any relationship, don't spend time with non approval, it only frustrates both parties. There are ladies that are cool, just find her.
Dynamics equals bass slam? Bass without box coloration, like open baffle design, like Maggies? Is this what most of you mean by dynamics? Magnepans offer natural bass (although quite weak) where you tune most of the bass response by distance between speaker to front wall. If you put them less than 3 feet you will have more bass slam/dynamics, but everything else will suffer. Everything else is what Magnepans stands for. It is hard to get it all and Maggies are not directly known for bass slam, but has good overall dynamics. I have experimenting with this a lot last 10 years and my Maggies 1.5+1.6 are about 6 feet from front wall and by that has a great tonality (voices & instruments sounds real) but it lacks bass slam like a typical kick drum. I have a lot of low bass but not satisfying kick drum... I have a couple of subwoofers (sealed with PEQ) and still having a hard time to get that bass slam together with natural bass (dry, fast and well defined) response in my room. Phase and time alignment is of highest importance together with heavy, heavy room treatment to get it as good as possible, but this is not an easy task to achieve... I also take off the bass load of my maggies at 80 Hz 12 dB when I use them with subwoofers. Most people are used to bass slam from ordinary dynamic box speakers mixed with a boomy room that creates a lot of bloated emphasized bass response and take this as a reference. It can sound quite good on pop/rock/trance but will lack natural tonality with mature music (live instruments, real standing bass, piano, cello etc)... I have realized that it is very hard to get "it all" in one single Hi-Fi setup where you often have to choose between fantastic 3D with natural sound that comes with Magnepans, Apogee (has actually great bass slam and has "it all") or dynamic cone speakers with more dynamic bass slam but normally with some box coloration. I have chosen the Magnepan design the last +10 years and can not go back to cone drivers (I think...). Room integration is always the key. You are listening to the room a LOT. Cheers!
Love my mg 1.5 qr. Not Magnepan's best, but very nice, and lacking nothing in the bass. They do jazz and classical perfectly. Natural balance at natural sound levels! Yes, they distort if you want too much volume. Magnepan disapproves of cone subs, because they do not mix well with a dipole. Subs are only useful you want thunder from a movie, or unnatural bass from rock.
Upgrading interconnects and speaker cables can be a HUGE improvement. I like WireWorld. They just came out with their Series 8, if they're out of your budget, great deals on used Series 7. If you are considering subs get 2 for optimal sound stage separation
Sometimes you should just say I don’t know. OCDHifiguy on UA-cam has done some nice mods including making the frame more rigid and upgrading the crossover. He definitely got more dynamics.
Don't quite understand the negative WAF (wife acceptance factor) re these speakers here. In the beginning was the Maggie---as seen in "2001 A Space Odyssey." Everyone gathered around to see what it was all about. It was the dawning of a new age---albeit monaural. A pair of monoliths (stereo) would come much later. Males AND females seemed to enjoy the original!
Those Italians are clever guys…they make their …well …mediocre sounding …speakers look good …knowing that WAF is in some (poor) cases more important than sheer sound quality
Magneplanars are not easy to drive. The more power the better. Anything under 100 watts per channel on even the LRS+ which is the cheapest, entry level Magneplanar is kind of a starting point. They are a 4 ohm speaker.
Adding a monopole sub (like a Rel ) is going to add more problems than it solves : now you have 2 different dispersion patterns in an overlapping frequency range which can easily lead to mutual destructive interference . Add a dipole sub , even better , a Ripole or W-frame sub and highpass those Maggies !
As for the bass of magnepan everyone says the same! I disagree! I have deep bass and No sub, you need an amp that doesn't bend in the low end! I have a ElectroCompaniet Eci 5 MKII ,and believe me I have a very dinamic layer that runs exactly up to 32hz on the magnepan 1.5 factory says 40hz low, but played go 8hz lower, think about this. How can it be that all types of magnepans do not or hardly give the feeling that they have really low in all those people? Answer I think most amp don't play 100% in the low frequency (in volume). And believe me it is a huge difference with the Electrocompaniet. plus of course the 3D effect that this amplifier gives in different dynamics what comes in the music, that really jumps out.
What do you mean electrostatics don't move much ! I can see my diaphragms moving quite a bit with a bass drum. I wish you would stop putting electrostatic speakers down because they are capable of amazing bass and dynamics like mine have.
Anders Hammer you have no idea what the difference is between mid bass (what your speakers do) and actual sub low .. Ohh and just in case you try to be offended ? I got magnepans , multiple sets
Just a brief mention of the WAF and all the misogynist commenters crawl out of the woodwork. Take your insecure hate somewhere else, guys - you're the unacceptable dark side of our hobby.
Misogynist? Alright cool. What kind of disrespectful buzzword you got for these intolerant ladies imposing their will on these men? Being a decent person goes both ways...
@room-ten-oh-nine ! Can't stand the stuff, but if you think giving a damn about women is some kind of radical idea then you need to get out more. It's normal. There are plenty of places on UA-cam where you can moan about women all you like. We're here for the audio.
Maggies dont image very well in my opinon? Solution to problem presented,sell the Maggies & get some klipsch there all good beyond the $300,00- $400.00.Price point Plus lots of bass!!
Umm -- if the Maggies you're listening to don't image well than something is wrong with the setup. This is particular true given your recommendation to buy Klipsch. Ouch. I've never heard any speaker image as well as my Maggies. I drive them with a Crown DC300A, BTW -- 150W per channel direct-coupled. I suspect that the amp you were listening to used a switching power supply. If so, the power supply couldn't keep up with the dynamics, hence the imaging issues.
The time i owned maggies was the late eigties i traded them for some overly modified D q tens.Both Speakers had Strong Flaws that were much less evident in The klipsch that ive owned.,Maggies dont Rock out that much for the likes of Prog rock that I listen to From EL.P. to king Crimson & so on.They do a slightly better job on vocals & folk stuff from kate bush to Richard Thompson .. .Oh well each to his own..Ps the Klipsch Rb 611 are very good for clean room filling sound on sale while they last! just dont send em off to G.R. research for upgrade they wont sound much better!
It has already been mentioned on other videos, but it's worth repeating: it is very refreshing that you speak so highly about products from other manufacturers.
As he should have because there are other great manufacturers out there. Particularly when it comes to speakers. Paul's crew is just starting to make speakers and there have been other manufacturers that have been making speakers for 40 to 50 years so you bet he should give them credit
Agree!
3:55
Paul: "Magneplanars are pretty easy loads to drive"
Magnepan LRS: "Hold my beer."
Yeah...probably for PS audio amps.
My Yaqin tube amp choked on the LRS.
Immediately pressed my trusty Musical Fidelity X-150v3 imto service.
Now driving them with Bryston 3Bsst.
LRS are now singing happily with a pair of RELs
🎶🤫🎶
I own 2 pairs of Magnepans that I have set up in a horizontal line array. With that being said, they are my speakers and part of my setup and my setup is important to me and part of who I am so... if you want to be my girlfriend/spouse/partner etc, the system is part of the whole package. Take it or leave it. I’m not a jerk about it, it just is what is.
If your “partner“ doesn’t understand or care that something as simple as an audio system can bring a person so much joy and is important, they’re probably not the right partner for you.
I could not agree more.
I got the tympani 1d in my system and the MG2 in my second and my wife loves them lol
Spouses decorate the entire house. If they see a speaker that is tall and say "not in my house", make it not her house anymore.
I've been fortunate that my wife, while still wanting things to look OK, appreciates great musical especially with the volume turned up. We purchased our first pair of Maggies (MG1's) in 1982. We ran them for decades with first a Hafler kit (I did it) and then a NAD receiver. About a year and a half ago, we thought that our hearing was going as the speakers sounded really really soft/mushy. Turns out our hearing was OK, the Maggies were delaminating. Purchased our second pair, 1.7's with a Rel subwoofer and thought they were better. A year later, we swapped out the NAD for a Cambridge streamer and a pair of PS Audio Stellar Monoblocks.....we had an OMG experience. We are now awaiting the arrival of a BHK preamp and Rega Phono preamp in order to hook up our vintage Technics SL 1301 which has been sitting in a box, along with our old albums...because my wife wants to hear/feel vinyl. The speakers have always been a "furniture statement" in our living room.
I love Paul. He reminds me of a 50s sitcom dad.
Your comment struck me with a sudden smile because it's so true! People were expected to be better natured then. And it's almost rare now.
listening to Paul, I always feel guilty that I don't own any PS Audio gear. He is a very fine gentleman. One of these days I will have to buy something from him!
I have 1.7i. Love them. Wife was not happy at first. But I took her for a demo and she really like the sound and accepted them 😀
No problem with the WAF, here.
I think they sound GREAT AT LOW VOLUME. Thanks for all the great videos
My wife chose the Magnepans when I had narrowed it down to 3 speakers. Her ears are better than mine. She likes anything in the living room that is related to good music. When I suggested an indoor pool in the living room she had a problem, though.
I'm an engineer and just picked up a set of 1.7i's. My girl thinks they look super cool. They're "techy and just like you." Just as the person wrote in, we can push them out of the way easy enough (they're built like tanks!) and can move them into listening position very easily. So they DO get approval occasionally!
I often hear that Maggies are not dynamic, having owned a pair of 1.7i for 2 years I do not agree with that sentiment and do not feel I am missing out on any dynamics. Having listened to many other systems I'm always drawn back to their unmatched imaging and airy sound.
Own a pair of 1.7i's myself. If they lack dynamics, either I haven't heard better, I don't know what that even means, or it requires an extremely coordinated system/room for that to become true, because I honestly haven't noticed a lack of "dynamics." IF we're talking intensity, On my DSD of Shostakovich 7, they go from reproducing the most subtle drumbeat to the pitched battle of the Allegretto's march pretty much perfectly, and on par with any live performance of it I've heard. If we're talking frequency range, the top is a bit "hot," but with the attenuators in and my REL dialed just right, the dynamic range is awesome. The highs are clear and crisp, the mids are rich and full, and the bass is balanced and impactful, and they take over just as they need to with nothing ever sounding "recessed" or "dull." And, for me, the hologram is still compelling and everything is musical. I will concede that I lack anywhere close to a perfect listening environment, and I have exceptionally modest electronics, so maybe if I were pushing their ability to "reveal" to capacity something SOMEWHERE will start to lack and the "lack of dynamics" might start to emerge, but if there is any weakness in my system as it stands, it's my ears, not the setup, and I don't know if I'll be getting to a point where I notice such things any time soon.
@@mr.bennett108 Awesome info! I'm glad to hear you have a great setup. I've been eyeing REL to pair with the speakers but was wondering how well they integrate with the Maggies. Do they have the speed to keep up with them? Which model do you have or would recommend? Thanks!
flashhog01 I enjoyed the dual REL T/9i with my 1.7i setup, but I ultimately went with dual Rythmik L12. I slightly preferred the Rythmik in terms of speed, and they happened to be cheaper too.
@@EliasTheHunter That is great to hear! Recently I have been looking at Rythmik over the REL subs and am glad to hear they work well for you and are quick enough to keep up with your Maggies.
@@flashhog01 Great! Which ones are you thinking about?
I don't think subs are 100% necessary, but I'm glad that I got them. I used a calibrated microphone and REW and the frequency response is reasonable. Not completely flat, but it's good enough to my ears that I'm not bothering with any software room correction or even EQ changes at this time.
Having loved and lived with 1.6, 2.5r and 3.6r Maggies, I would argue that they can be dynamic. Paul's sub recommendation is absolutely step one as even the largest Maggies start to taper off at 60-70 Hz (Rel or Vandy shine with IMHO). The next step is power. As they are inefficient, they eat current and turn it into improved low volume and higher volume dynamics. My 3.6s really came to life with >800 Watts per channel @4Ohm. They like high power switching class D or well controlled / regulated AB. Even with this expense, you'll come out ahead of many cone or hybrid speakers with higher efficiency and lower cost amps. Oh, and my wife recommends others listen to the speakers and stop looking at them.
I like Maggies a lot too, but the old Apogee line taught us that ribbons (with quasi-ribbon woofers) could in fact be dynamic. I think Maggies are very lightweight in accordance with their excellent value, and therefore the frames react to the music. Adding mass or additional stiffening structures to a Maggie might help. Apogees were always far heavier than the comparably sized Maggies. My Apogee Full Range speakers (the original) weight over 300 pounds each. That provides a solid anchor for the drivers and as a result they can be very dynamic, provided you drive them with enough juice.
You can add Mye stands to the Maggies to similar effect, supposedly they improve bass response.
Maggies have poor support so they flop in the breeze with bass notes. One reason I never owned any and they sound too big.
@@andershammer9307 Mye stands fix that, though the measurements I've seen didn't show a huge difference. Re size, Maggies can reproduce a symphony orchestra in its full dimensions, which boxes are hard-pressed to do, that's one of the things I love about dipole line sources. Voices can sometimes get too big if they're miked up close. But what I've found is that if you put absorption behind them you can get very precise imaging. I don't think there's any speaker that can do it all, large spaces and small intimate ones, because of the limitations of two channel stereo.
Agree, MG are on the cheapest build quality side of all the planar speakers. You've to hear a pair of Alsyvox to realize how should sound a planar seriously built !
My wife has an issue with Magnapans but not because of the size etc but because she doesn't like the sound. I still have them and we make compromises. Thats a part of life.
Of course the dynamics of Magnepan speakers can be helped. Have an amplifier with plenty of power and current. 200 watts sounds like a lot but this needs to be full spectrum with low distortion and with plenty of current. Magnepans are open baffle and unless they are the 30.7s will roll off at the extreme low end. Any power you send to them below their useful range will be absolutely wasted and will add distortion and dynamic limitation in the range where they reproduce sound well. Add a subwoofer and only send high pass frequencies to the panels. They will then only have to reproduce the frequencies above the sub crossover point and this will result in excursions that are more within the design limits for the vibrating diaphragm (imagine trying to reproduce a 10 dB midbass peak when the panel is already pushed to its excursion limit with a 30-40Hz bass note. It's not going to happen!). Magnepans have one of the least fatiguing sounds I have ever heard from a loudspeaker. I have heard many expensive and well reviewed and "dynamic" sounding speakers that cause fatigue after a short time because what makes them sound dynamic is not necessarily the source material but a physical artifact caused by their design resulting in their own peculiar "ringing" or "honking". In my experience Magnepans sound more "real" overall period.
PS. I have a pair of excellent "box" speakers in my home theater. They sound awesome with movies and a lot of music genres but I use my Magnepans for critical listening and the enjoyment of true high fidelity. Sometimes I'm taken aback even when listening to music coming from my FM tuner. Some sounds come out of nowhere that make me look or turn down the volume to see if something is actually in the room causing the sound.
Without dynamics music can't sound live. So when I built my plainars, I built a verticle row of cone drivers that go along side. Very convincing.
What dynamic drivers did you use?
@@Josh442 10" paper, parts express. Ill get back to you on the #'s. 4 per side + 10" circular wave guide with 1" compression driver.
@@porkchopspapi5757 Thanks
I really suggest everyone check out Mikey’s videos over at “OCD HiFi Guy”
He’s a audio engineer of sorts and designs and builds audio products. He modified his Maggie’s and made them sound even better than they were out of the box. Total overhaul including crossover and frame/waveguide. His progress is on his UA-cam channel. Check it out!!!
The same guy that claims cables make a huge difference, no thanks.
Ryan Schipp to each their own
@@ryanschipp8513
Same guy who claims "round conductors cause distortion" 😆🤣😂😆
@@poserwannabe1Of course they do -- everyone knows that electrons are square. :-)
@@Josh442 aah shit...I must have missed that class...who knew ?? 🤣
Add a PAIR, not a single sub. If you are after dynamics, the difference is amazing. I own a pair of maggie 1.7's, and added a single REL S-2(no longer available). After about 2yrs. of being sort of happy, I added another REL S-2, used, but mint). Holy crap, what a huge difference. The bass filled out and transformed a pretty good system, into one that stops you in your tracks!!
Hmmm. I just found out the speakers I have owned and loved for the last 35 years have no dynamics. And all this time I thought they did. A planar speaker, like my Sound Lab electrostatics and Magnaplanars, do indeed need to be large to produce significant bass and dynamics. The .7 is not very big, so as any other small speaker, they won't have deep bass and strong dynamics. My "other" speakers, homemade with 15" woofers and a very large (40" long) horn midrange, are indeed more dynamic than my electrostatics, but they actually take up more space than do the panel speakers. A dynamic woofer either has to be large or have a very long throw to produce it's bass and dynamics. I too love Magnapans, that like my Sound Labs, have a delicacy and transparency that box speakers cannot match. They are also both line sources, which means their imaging is amazing.
I know this is an old video but I have found that driving each of my Magnepan 3.7i speakers with a Rogue Audio M-180 Dark Mono Block tube Amp with a Rogue Audio RP-7 Preamp sounds more dynamic and open and provides plenty of power. Also for the bottom end I added a Rel T7 sub for each speaker and this combination seems to hit the sweet spot.
Wife: not in my house.
Me: Buy your gear before you get a wife.
Something quick like a RiPole!! The most musical Subwoofer I have ever heard. They pair very well with Magnepans / Electrostats as they are an OB / Dipole setup and excite far fewer nulls than other subs.
and you can't locate them , even if they are placed right next to you . They really dissapear . Built already 2 pairs : one 2x12 inch and one 2x15 inch and starting on a 2x18 inch with 25 mm Xmax each way : should give me over 103 dB SPL mono at 20 Hz , 113 at 28 and a mind blowing 119 at 40 Hz
I switched to Maggies from Klipsch La Scalas when I moved to a much smaller listening room. I use a pair of good subwoofers and VTL deLux 140 tube amps. My impression is that they are extremely dynamic, but only within their limits, which is quite low in level. Pushed, they become less dynamic and if one tries to overcome their limitations by goosing them a bit they become even less dynamic.
At low enough levels and with appropriate amplification and subwoofing they are, to my ears, MUCH more dynamic than "dynamic" speakers.
*Question:* How many audiophiles who complain about Maggie dynamics are using vinyl as a source??
Magnepan recommend Bryston amps for decent current delivery.
I have no issue with the LRS&RELs dynamic delivery on acoustic music, jazz and classical. Obviously the recordings aren't compressed mush! Or tastefully compressed vinyl...
I move upstairs to my 2.2 box speaker system for Reggae.
Its " our house" with two music rooms arranged around the stereo systems;-)
You can mitigate a lack of dynamics with power power power! 200 watts, though it seems like a lot, can actually be inadequate for a Maggie. Depends on a number of factors, but when you overpower magnepans they can come alive in surprising ways. There are people who use 1000 watt monoblocs with magnepans for this reason. The quality of the power also matters. Magnepans can become expensive when you factor in optimal amplification, though this also depends on a number of factors.
Great review
Maggie's are awesome but very tough to drive.
4 ohm load and 86 sensitivity rating on most of them. Usually powered by Macs or bryston.
I used parasound, anthem, bryston , classe and rotel power amps on my 3.6r and all were good. But they all were high power amps.
I've heard several models and i
Owned the 3.6r Awesome speakers and one of my favorites ! they do need a sub ... 2 is always better . lol
Also they should be five feet out from the front wall. ( very least 3ft. ) Which is also a tough sell for the wife. But they are fantastic.
Everything has trade offs.
I am getting huge dynamics and bass out of a pair of LRS ,,,,, the secret is a large solid state amp with big caps and tons of headroom .... look for 400 watts going into 4 ohms
Yes indeed. I drive mine with a big old Crown DC300A from 1974. They sound GREAT. Like you say -- big caps, tons of headroom. In my case, direct coupled.
Well I don't have the wifey problem anymore. Thank GOD!!!!! But I just LOVE MY ACOUSTATS!!! So when a lady friend comes over and SAY WHAT ARE THOSE BIG UGLY THINGS DOING IN YOUR LIVING ROOM, I say to myself WHO U and she is BANISHED FROM MY LIFE!!!! because I am THE MAN OF MY CASTLE!!!! SHE CAN GO KICK ROCKS. 😆
@room-ten-oh-nine !- When different utility (power, cable, etc,) workers have to get in my backyard they always ask about that short/tall mound of earth with the grass growing on it, in an otherwise flat backyard. I say, that? My ex, she was short and fat! LOL!
@room-ten-oh-nine !- Great advice! The current girlfriend is a little tall, lol!
I've owned Magnepans since 1978 when I heard my first pair, the Tympani 1d's. I currently have two audio systems based on Magnepan speakers, including a full surround Magnepan system with 1.7 mains, a CC3 center and mmg surrounds. It sounds so realistic on music. I have always used a subwoofer with my magnepans though, just to deliver that bottom octave that maggies are not ideal in producing. That sub needs to be fast though to keep up with the panels. I've found that servo based subs work best with Magnepan mains.
Heh, I had 1D's too. If you want bottom octave bass, try finding a pair of Tympani IVA's -- the 3 dB point on mine is 25 Hz. Not quite subwoofer territory, but the realism of the bass is just astounding and in my small room there's enough slam to do chest compression, which I've never felt from a planar before.
Josh Hill I use 4 subs with my tympani .. no need for panel upgrades trust me lol
The best thing you can do, is offer the Speaker all the Current it wants, which means big & hi Quality Elektrolytics in your Amplifier PSU.
I don't know the specific amp that your correspondent mentioned, but sheer power isn't enough. In my experience, the amp needs LOTS of headroom and needs non-switching power supply. I have amazing imaging and dynamics from my MG1Bs (from 1983!) -- I drive them with recently refurbished Crown gear -- DC300A power amp and IC150 preamp, both from 1974.
BTW, I enthusiastically agree with your recommendation to add a sub. I use a consumer-grade powered sub (I forget the brand) that works just fine. I think I bought it from Best Buy 20 years ago (I don't remember the specifics). It has a downward-firing cone, and I keep it in the corner behind one of the Maggies.
I am fortunate that my wife of 20 years is fine with my Maggies. We have contemplated installing drapes that close in front of the speakers and 70" flat panel monitor while we're entertaining. OTOH, our guests are often so curious about the media system that they enjoy watching and listening.
Cats love maggies too!
They think is a gift for them to use as scratching pads.
If you have a cat magnepans are a big no-no.
I have and like to throw the little furry mofos, they would only get one chance at my speakers, after that PETA would be real angry with me. Oh calm down, just kidding, my kids and wife would try to throw me if I did all that, just a day dream I guess. I'm actually shopping around and listening to various hifi especially speakers and Magies are on my radar, and yes my cats must be considered however it troubles me!!!
Easy fix. Mute the system at a high volume. Wait till the cat zeroes in on the maggie. The moment they touch it, unmute. Problem solved
@@shroud1390
LOL! LOL!... what a GREAT idea!
And if you do this a couple of times, it's guaranteed your cat won't go near them. She might be a distant observer but, she will circumnavigate them to avoid another blast.
@@m.9243 yep you got it. Cats HATE loud noises. Fwiw my cats never complained about dynamics...
Fwiw I helped the dynamics by modding them. Well i lowered the noise floor so it sounded more dynamic.
And.. With that much Love- I've got to fire up my Maggies- MK-IIs Which they DO and will produce a hefty amount of base if positioned correctly in the room. BTW- spouse loves them too!
when i was 15-18 we used to always have house parties at my one friends house and his dad has magneplanars in his media room, we used to always plug in to the aux and play our electronic music out of them and get wasted, funny i always knew they were very high end speakers but not that they were this special
I'd love to get Maggie 1.7i's but my space is large, some say too large: 26 x 22 x 15 ft high. One dealer told me that Maggies would be lost in my room and sound tinny without closer walls to serve as boundaries. Is this true? One reason I want them is that I like a vertical floor-to-ceiling soundstage.
If you want dynamics from Maggies, you need an amplifier with a very high-quality power supply. They can do dynamics just fine. And a lot of people don't like using subwoofers with Maggies because the incredible "quickness" of the treble is difficult to integrate with a large dynamic woofer, which significantly impacts the imaging. Deep bass can be fun in certain types of music, but if you're limited on room size and/or if you don't want to bother your neighbors, 50hz extension is fine.
in the beginning of my relation the 3.7i's where up to debate a couple times including the big 60" screen, i gave here the solution that if we could afford a house with a dedicated room to watch tv and sit down for music, it would solve the problem :) that ended the discussion for me at least.
My gf loves my Maggies .7 and how they look in the living room. She is a keeper. For the sub, Gallo TR3D is a great match
best non purchase decision ever made.
it matters not that a recording doesn't have bass as a feature but believe me, it is there and the sense of room and imaging is always enhanced and the realism becomes evident. also, a person doesn't need to spend a fortune to get that result. i am partial to Rythmik subs which are smaller and less costly than the admittedly very good RELs. the other factor that the fellow mentioned was additional power. i am quite prone to have a tubed preamplifier of good pedigree and plenty of ss power on hand for dynamic and impact along with speaker safety.
paul, you certainly are aware that passing a distorted signal through whatever voice coil that is in use is asking for voicecoil burnout. i am happiest with no less than 100wpc or more. in the affordable and refined category are Rogue electronics whereas i use an ADCOM 555II. i have heard some VERY nice sounding systems using a Rogue integrated of about 100pwc at Brian Berdan's store in Pasadena CA.
...hifitommy
Just bought the .7 Magnepans on 5/24 and use them with a Rogue Sphinx V3 at 100 WPC with a tube preamp in this excellent integrated amp and they sound fantastic. I prefer to use them with good quality vinyl with a decent table and cartridge. CDs can sound good if recorded without too much compression. My streamed music is also excellent 80% of the time depending on the source material. I love Magnepan speakers and have since the late 1970s. Mine aren't even broken in yet.
Hi Paul , I want to say first I have Always loved your talks and so Respected your candor and Truthfulness, I haven't always agreed with everything you say but I always appreciate you are helping people - and for 98% of it I do agree!
- Now for the unfortunate reality, either you just haven't heard about Magneplanar Mods or because of your past love of Magneplanars you don't want to say Anything bad about the Company. And for the most part they are a Great company.... But they seem to Absolutely dislike anyone modding their Speakers! - All you have to do is track down all of what has been said on the different forums and it is plain to see how the company feels about Magnepan mods.
- The Truth is that like just about everything in audio they are built to a price point. And their sales model is mostly about making their Speakers affordable, which is Absolutely great! --- - But also doesn't come close to the Real TRUTH about their potential.
-- I am now going to say something that many will Not believe unless they care enough to hear it for themselves , or do the research - - - not only CAN they be Modified but if you haven't heard them after the possible Mods, then you haven't HEARD how AMAZINGLY GOOD that they Can REALLY sound!!
- Once Modded they will ABSOLUTELY BLOW your Mind... and not only Will they have Great BASS, and not only will they sound GREAT playing ROCK , but once Modded you will find that the Magnepan driver is also capable of much greater resolution than anyone Ever Imagined , and once their problems are corrected they can compete with almost all other speakers, but more than that according to those who have heard them they beat most all the competition as well!!!!!
- ONE CAVIET ...... the mods MUST be done on Magnepan's older models, the COMPANY so dislikes people modding their speakers that they have redesigned all the newer models and although they do sound better than they did , they still aren't even close to their potential and they basically are a waste of time and money to try and mod, and the results won't come close to what is possible with the older models.
Thank you for caring about your fellow audiophiles!
Kind regards, Dean
--- YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH ---
Thanks, Dean. Who does these mods and what do they entail? I can believe everything you wrote here.
There is a "relatively inexpensive" solid core speaker cable called "Anticables" that does 'Wonders' for the dynamics of Magneplanars. The "Maggie" panels are capable of producing a more extended low frequency response without the addition of a Dynamic Subwoofer once you stop trying to treat them like Dynamic Speakers.
which Anticable model you tried ? and thanks for the advise.
I added a REL Stentor to my MGIIIs years ago. They made everything sound better. Even a soprano sounded better and they do give the illusion of better dynamics.
dalton knox it’s no illusion it does
I have had "maggies" for many years powered with 200w. per channel amps -- and no sub-woofer. Depending on what I'm listening to, I move them around both forward or back and twisting them on a vertical axis. This allows me to fine tune the bass response.
Magnepan speakers have bass when hooked up to Pass Labs amps.
Go to the magnepan group on facebook. Also I would have to disagree that Maggies dont require a lot of power. They don't require a lot of power to make noise, but to make them properly sing ample power and current are required.
That's what I've heard from numerous sources even Steve Guttenberg has said so that's why I avoid them.
This was a great talk! Thanks. By the way, I live alone and proudly live with giant magnepans in my living room. Oh and no cats.
Positioning is critical. I'm lucky enough to have a dedicated music room and this enables my Quad 57s to be placed according to the rule of thirds. In that quite deep room position they do have a decent amount of dynamics, though I obviously make that observation in the context of an electrostatic. I would imagine the same effect would apply to Magneplanars.
Hi, Paul, I realize you may have more queries than you can always get to, but was wondering if you could answer one quick one. I have one of those nice big, vintage Dak subwoofers from the early to mid-80's (think Scandinavian mid-century Modern as big as a piece of furniture or end table) whick I wanted to see if you thought was quick enough to power the fast ribbons in the Magnepans enough to make a perceptible difference and improvement in the bass response of my equally vintage Magneplanars? Sorry for the drawn-out question, but I trust that you get the gist of it. I would be integrating with a Harmon-Kardon 795i vintage receiver and a vintage Denon L60 turntable. If not, do you think the Rel(?) amp you suggested would be better or a Hegel 64 amp would be all that is needed as others have suggested (or maybe use both the subwoofer and amp?). Would greatly appreciate any insight and wisdom. Be well. Thomas
Adding a sub for sure adds dynamic range it will lift the speakers up to new levels
And my wife loves the look of magnepans! I am the one that’s a bit less happy with the look 😂 true story !
We got to get off this foundation that music is being played from a symphony...this seems to be a recurring theme every time a topic is discussed. Maybe the guy likes music that's just not suited for those speakers. And as far as subs, again as I've often commented, you'll get low frequency but will never be in phase with a speaker like that. Crucial. Without a close phase with the mains, to me, it's just not in sync and sloppy. Phase is everything between a sub and your mains and one day I hope you'll comment on that. You don't just hook-up a sub to a bookshelf or a speaker as lean as a Mag and say problem solved...I now have low end. Doesn't work that way, especially in your pursuit for great sound.
Yes, they have a prototype called mini 30.7 where they used dipole woofers with a DSP front end. Not in production yet but a lot of people can DIY using the DSP units available and dipole woofer plans. BUT the midrange and tweeter panels need to be 5 feet away from the walls behind them. Who can do that in theor living room??
I love Maggies more than anything, but they are limited in many aspects, and you sort of just have to take the good with the bad, because the good is the BEST
My 1.7s are actually the first speaker I've owned whose looks received COMPLIMENTS from my wife (of 35 years). Go figure!
I have my Magnepan set up in the spare bedroom, I’ll be looking to move them in to the study once decorated. If the wife doesn’t like the plain black panels, I have been thinking to get some fabric covers on them., maybe a canvas of a flower like the Depeche Mode violator album artwork
I have an old pair of 3.3r's with a decent 100w/ch amp and listen to rock and jazz and loud volumes. The best thing I ever did was to move my listening position as far forward as the soundstage image would allow. Per Paul's suggestion in an earlier video, I kept inching forward and at one point, the bass and mid-bass dynamics just bloomed out. Now, it took a few weeks of fiddling with toe-in and wall distances and all that other shit before I was happy, but now I am. I've found the Maggies to be very sensitive to chair position but very consistent in their reaction to changes. If I want a bit more space in the image, I move a bit (6", not more) back. If I want back row in a concert hall, I move 12-24" back. If I want to be in Ozzy's lap, I just about have the Maggies in my lap. Don't buy any equipment until you've spent allot of time on your room set-up.
Again, excellent points Paul....
Magnepans are beautiful. The 1.7 are max size though. Simpler the better. LRS are quite good looking
For my home music studio, I am about to upgrade monitors. Which is better, the Adam Audio T5V/T7V or Presonus R65 AMT?
That seems to me to be the audiophile equivalent of "How long is a piece of string?" What type of music will you be recording? What are the studio dimensions? What room treatments are in place? Will they be doing double duty and used for recording and mixing, or will they be used for both? What monitors are you currently using and why are you needing to upgrade? Why are you asking on a forum dominated by listeners, rather than one devoted to recording?
BTW, my answer regardless is: "Fucked if I know!" Same answer as when the nurse asked me who the current prime minister of Australia was. He said: "Correct!"
Interesting view, although I never liked Maggies. I can see why people like them, but I found their portrayal of solo instruments unrealistic. But that's what's great about our hobby: we can find different things we can appreciate.
Short answer ... yes, how? Good subwoofer or multiple subs
If I have a music room in my house no woman is going to dictate what speakers I listen to PERIOD! Hey fellas pick 3: a dog, a pair of MAGNEPANS, a new car, a girlfriend. GOODBYE girlfriend! LMAO!
Good one Paul, thanks again!
According to specs the mINT integrated amp is rated at 187 watts into 4 ohms.
I have 0.7 have never had Problems since I hooked them up to the kinki exm-1. Before on a cheap pioneer amp I could hear why People think they have bad Dynamics. For me amplification is the answer...
Hi Paul!
How about the Martin Logans, which use a hybrid design?
He doesn't like Martin Logan's as he has stated before for various reasons I suppose. In my opinion they are better than Maggies. I have some older rather large Martin Logan's that have a great bass down to 30 Hertz. Martin Logan's get a bad wrap because people claim that the bass does not blend well with the panel, but I don't have any issues with my sl3s. They are crossed over rather low.
The problem with hybrids is that you can hear the woofer, it lacks the transparency of the planar panels.
@@Josh442 not with mine, some of the newer ones are crossed over a lot higher but,mine are older and are crossed over much lower. Also nothing beats the mid-range and highs of an Electrostatic speaker period. So while newer and lower end models may suffer from this, some older models, and higher-end models do not. However everyone just repeats what they hear, so they think every model sounds the same, which is false. I enjoy my Martin Logan sl3's way you more than anything magnepan is putting out... Plus I don't need a subwoofer just to actually enjoy music...
@@JohnDoe-jm5ul Well, as you say, I haven't heard them all! And I agree that the mids and highs of electrostatics have a clarity that nothing matches (short of an ionic tweeter, anyway).
Not all Maggies require subs, though -- my Tympani IVA's are -3 dB at 25 Hz, and have enough slam to do chest compression, something I've never experienced with another planar woofer. The 30.7's go even lower, they're flat to 20 Hz. But it requires big panels to do that.
I know someone online who has a "best of all worlds" setup -- he uses a Martin-Logan for the mids and highs, crosses over to Tympani panels for the upper bass, and then uses a rotary woofer below 30 Hz!
@@JohnDoe-jm5ul I heard the TOTL and a few rungs below from Martin Logan at the NY Audio Show and they are incredible. I didn't really pay attention to the bass much, but the midrange and treble were spooky good. The bass seemed fine to me, but I really didn't listen that intently to it.
The next step up is a soundlab speaker.
Buy the DWM Bass Panel
My wife and all the woman who have ever seen my maggies love how they look. Certainly much more so than some exotic boxes. I would disagree....I think woman are for more attracted to the thin panel than many other designs.....Vacuum tube amps my wife just doesn't dig....Oh well they generally do not match my budget in order to drive maggies anyway.
Magneplanars, 2.7, 3.6, do have bass. Correct bass, not overdone bass.
No they don’t I am sorry got 4 pairs of planars including the tympani 3 panels per side. They all lack low end of you call that “good”
You clearly have no idea what low end is suppose to sound like
lot of guys are push overs
if your wife doesnt accept that you like/want/have large speakers, then you may want to consider finding another woman who accepts you.
Yeah I could not tolerate that, I think that issue should brought up right out of the gate in a relationship if audio is important to you before becoming invested in a woman too long.
Right on the money, there always will be factors in any relationship, don't spend time with non approval, it only frustrates both parties. There are ladies that are cool, just find her.
Dynamics equals bass slam? Bass without box coloration, like open baffle design, like Maggies? Is this what most of you mean by dynamics? Magnepans offer natural bass (although quite weak) where you tune most of the bass response by distance between speaker to front wall. If you put them less than 3 feet you will have more bass slam/dynamics, but everything else will suffer. Everything else is what Magnepans stands for. It is hard to get it all and Maggies are not directly known for bass slam, but has good overall dynamics. I have experimenting with this a lot last 10 years and my Maggies 1.5+1.6 are about 6 feet from front wall and by that has a great tonality (voices & instruments sounds real) but it lacks bass slam like a typical kick drum. I have a lot of low bass but not satisfying kick drum... I have a couple of subwoofers (sealed with PEQ) and still having a hard time to get that bass slam together with natural bass (dry, fast and well defined) response in my room. Phase and time alignment is of highest importance together with heavy, heavy room treatment to get it as good as possible, but this is not an easy task to achieve... I also take off the bass load of my maggies at 80 Hz 12 dB when I use them with subwoofers.
Most people are used to bass slam from ordinary dynamic box speakers mixed with a boomy room that creates a lot of bloated emphasized bass response and take this as a reference. It can sound quite good on pop/rock/trance but will lack natural tonality with mature music (live instruments, real standing bass, piano, cello etc)... I have realized that it is very hard to get "it all" in one single Hi-Fi setup where you often have to choose between fantastic 3D with natural sound that comes with Magnepans, Apogee (has actually great bass slam and has "it all") or dynamic cone speakers with more dynamic bass slam but normally with some box coloration. I have chosen the Magnepan design the last +10 years and can not go back to cone drivers (I think...). Room integration is always the key. You are listening to the room a LOT. Cheers!
Love my mg 1.5 qr. Not Magnepan's best, but very nice, and lacking nothing in the bass. They do jazz and classical perfectly. Natural balance at natural sound levels! Yes, they distort if you want too much volume. Magnepan disapproves of cone subs, because they do not mix well with a dipole. Subs are only useful you want thunder from a movie, or unnatural bass from rock.
You did not give your son your speakers ????????
If she couldn't handle Maggies, what chance do you think it is that his wife would want those monsters?
Upgrading interconnects and speaker cables can be a HUGE improvement. I like WireWorld. They just came out with their Series 8, if they're out of your budget, great deals on used Series 7. If you are considering subs get 2 for optimal sound stage separation
Snake oil never fails to shine...🤦♂️
Sometimes you should just say I don’t know. OCDHifiguy on UA-cam has done some nice mods including making the frame more rigid and upgrading the crossover. He definitely got more dynamics.
Don't quite understand the negative WAF (wife acceptance factor) re these speakers here. In the beginning was the Maggie---as seen in "2001 A Space Odyssey." Everyone gathered around to see what it was all about. It was the dawning of a new age---albeit monaural. A pair of monoliths (stereo) would come much later. Males AND females seemed to enjoy the original!
Those Italians are clever guys…they make their …well …mediocre sounding …speakers look good …knowing that WAF is in some (poor) cases more important than sheer sound quality
Magneplanars are not easy to drive. The more power the better. Anything under 100 watts per channel on even the LRS+ which is the cheapest, entry level Magneplanar is kind of a starting point. They are a 4 ohm speaker.
Magneplanars are a pretty easy load to drive :-)))))))))))))))))))))))
Adding a monopole sub (like a Rel ) is going to add more problems than it solves : now you have 2 different dispersion patterns in an overlapping frequency range which can easily lead to mutual destructive interference . Add a dipole sub , even better , a Ripole or W-frame sub and highpass those Maggies !
That's what man caves and she sheds are for.
As for the bass of magnepan everyone says the same! I disagree! I have deep bass and No sub, you need an amp that doesn't bend in the low end! I have a ElectroCompaniet Eci 5 MKII ,and believe me I have a very dinamic layer that runs exactly up to 32hz on the magnepan 1.5 factory says 40hz low, but played go 8hz lower, think about this. How can it be that all types of magnepans do not or hardly give the feeling that they have really low in all those people? Answer I think most amp don't play 100% in the low frequency (in volume). And believe me it is a huge difference with the Electrocompaniet. plus of course the 3D effect that this amplifier gives in different dynamics what comes in the music, that really jumps out.
What do you mean electrostatics don't move much ! I can see my diaphragms moving quite a bit with a bass drum. I wish you would stop putting electrostatic speakers down because they are capable of amazing bass and dynamics like mine have.
Anders Hammer you have no idea what the difference is between mid bass (what your speakers do) and actual sub low ..
Ohh and just in case you try to be offended ? I got magnepans , multiple sets
Need subs!!!!!!!
No good subwoofer in a box!!!!!
And your world will change 😁
Just a brief mention of the WAF and all the misogynist commenters crawl out of the woodwork. Take your insecure hate somewhere else, guys - you're the unacceptable dark side of our hobby.
Misogynist? Alright cool. What kind of disrespectful buzzword you got for these intolerant ladies imposing their will on these men? Being a decent person goes both ways...
@@wesw9586 If you love someone, you compromise. As Paul says, find speakers which are acceptable to both of you.
@room-ten-oh-nine ! Can't stand the stuff, but if you think giving a damn about women is some kind of radical idea then you need to get out more. It's normal. There are plenty of places on UA-cam where you can moan about women all you like. We're here for the audio.
Then you haven't followed Paul for long. Or did you just come here to be a troll?
@@thisisnev if they love you, they can put up with a pair of speakers.
Maggies dont image very well in my opinon? Solution to problem presented,sell the Maggies & get some klipsch there all good beyond the $300,00- $400.00.Price point Plus lots of bass!!
Umm -- if the Maggies you're listening to don't image well than something is wrong with the setup. This is particular true given your recommendation to buy Klipsch. Ouch. I've never heard any speaker image as well as my Maggies. I drive them with a Crown DC300A, BTW -- 150W per channel direct-coupled. I suspect that the amp you were listening to used a switching power supply. If so, the power supply couldn't keep up with the dynamics, hence the imaging issues.
The time i owned maggies was the late eigties i traded them for some overly modified D q tens.Both Speakers had Strong Flaws that were much less evident in The klipsch that ive owned.,Maggies dont Rock out that much for the likes of Prog rock that I listen to From EL.P. to king Crimson & so on.They do a slightly better job on vocals & folk stuff from kate bush to Richard Thompson .. .Oh well each to his own..Ps the Klipsch Rb 611 are very good for clean room filling sound on sale while they last! just dont send em off to G.R. research for upgrade they wont sound much better!