Lila Reacts to Why VTubers Are Blowing Up (Asmongold)
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- Опубліковано 22 гру 2023
- Why are VTubers growing more than "real" girls? Today, I react to Why VTubers Are Blowing Up by Asmongold. I'm Lilaofthewind, a VTuber on UA-cam and Twitch. Subscribe for more reaction videos! ✨
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LilaoftheWind is an American VTuber that started streaming on Twitch on August 22, 2022 and starting taking UA-cam seriously in February 2023. Her fans consider her chill, wholesome, funny, and wise... with some ADHD to boot! She loves making reaction content, playing video games, and producing creative projects like voice overs, animation, and music.
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I think the men only care about looks thing is simultaneously reductive yet true.
If you want to attract a man, you need to be physically attractive; however, if you want to keep a man, you need to have a good personality.
So the idea that men ONLY care about looks is wrong, but it is definitely an easy inroad to a man, but it does not guarantee longevity, only initial interest.
Fun fact. That one vtuber that was revealed due to a technical glitch ended up becoming even more popular afterwards.
Also, wasn't it known beforehand that it was a guy behind the avatar to his fanbase, it was just clipped and went far outside his normal reach.
@@M_SRC Yeah, it was a running inside joke, he never intended to hide it or anything, so his audience grew afterwards since his regular viewers all stayed (because it was nothing to them)
I watch Vtubers because they're entertaining. It doesn't matter who they are.
In what way do you think most people find them entertaining😏lol. Just kidding. Some are actually talented and are not just trying to act like they’re cute. Gamers regardless what type of UA-camr they are. Some people also like wear a mask or do something because they don’t want to appeal with their real faces. Aka The UA-camr The Knights of Melvin. At least most of V tuber’s subs are nice people and not stalkers. As much as I would like to be popular. There is a bigger bs algorithm. Somehow I got thousands of views on a video that wasn’t even good and the videos I put effort in get like 50 views. The reaction UA-camrs most of the time do the least amount of work. They just react. While some people edit stuff really well and they are portrayed as trash. I would like to talk about more in my opinion but I am tired of typing this.
Same lol
I know pastaroniravioli from wildcat and fourzer0seven i saw what she looklike and am still watching her the little gremlin
I think its better if Asmond said this..
"I came because of the looks, stayed because of the personality"
i love it!
I actually got into Vtubers via Neurosama. I was riding the news edge of what was happening with AI and Neuro cropped up in the algorithm. I got hooked. Then the collabs and I started falling down the hole of watching Vtubers in general. In some ways I think Vtubers are like bringing a puppet to a therapy session, there's more of an openness about them, be it silly or serious, which I find endearing.
Exact same deal here
When I first heard about vtubers, I thought they were kind of weird. I got the impression they were roleplaying as anime characters come to life, and I guess I sort of assumed there was some delusion going on either on the vtuber side or their audience or both. But it wasn't until Gigguk made a video about Hololive and I started watching Gawr Gura that I realized it's just normal people streaming with an avatar.
Pretty much the same. I believe content creators can express themselves much more having a Digital Avatar.(Or even an AI on screen^^)
i got into vtubers because of Baacharu, youtube randomly dragged me down that rabbit hole in 2017 and it was like i encountered a cryptid guy moving around and speaking very quickly with a 3d avatar with a horse head wearing a suit, baffled me enough i ended up looking for other people doing something similar and found Kizuna AI, been watching various vtubers since.
my Favorite Female streamer... Vedal...
Same
Same.
I think a lot of Asmon's point was that since the audience on Twitch is heavily guys, mostly straight guys, appearance goes farther for female creators than personality and vice/versa for male creators. If Twitch's main audience was girls, he would probably say that appearance matters more than personality for male creators in that case. He seems to believe that opposite sex viewership heavily depends on attraction.
The all vtubers are men with voice-changers thing is mostly just an evolution of the ancient meme "There are no girls on the internet". Some just take that adage as gospel and refuse to believe real women are on the internet and like to do nerdy/niche things.
That whole "meme" is also such a spit in the face to anyone interested in the media for any sort of gender/sexuality experimentation. Which, there is quite a bit of in this sphere. The ability to "play a role", can really help people figure themselves out, by trying things in a safer manner.
Hell, this doesn't even just affect queer folk. Everyone needs outlets.
If Asmon goes Vtubing his model would be just him but even more bald
On the looks argument - It's hard to put it into a scale like Asmon did, but I think it's reasonable.
Looks are like a minimum requirement, a screening. Guys more often than not will not click on an ugly woman. Sure there's exceptions, but for the most part it's true. You need the looks / good model to get people in the door. The personality and skills part comes after to keep them there.
The vtuber stereotype of oh its a guy must be a trauma response to being catfished
I watch vtubers because a lot of models I see are really really creative. The designs of the models are cool and the overall lore to them are just top notch for me. Like I can’t hate vtubers because they just are creative with their models and designs.
I love Lila, she's very interesting talking about what she's reacting & the subject, amazing
I recently subscribed to your channel because I liked how genuine and eloquent you are when you speak about things. This video was no exception 👍 Also, thanks for understanding and touching on the mental health issues men face. The struggle is real.
tried something different today. nearly scraped this video cause i wasn't 100% happy with it, but you know what? i wanted to give YOU GUYS the opportunity to tell me what you think FIRST... and then i'll improve from there, with your input. thanks for listening. ❤
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I've been seeing a lot of vtuber reacts to X recently and as a concept I dont care for reaction channels or content of that nature as a whole as a lot of people just use it as a way to get views on other peoples hard work. Despite this I keep coming back to your content as you actually bring your own commentary and actually discuss the video and add to it, you turned a 16 min video into almost an hour for example. Another big plus is you actually credit the original creater and the video source, amazing how little people do this -_- Its a refreshing take on the reaction genre and I look forward to your content going forward and watching your growth.
Pulling up graphs and numbers, making a reaction video several times longer than original - Asmon would be proud :)
26:45 I don't understand how you came to that conclusion. Why men are powerless if they aren't pretty and have no boobs, when it's not what they are supposed to offer in the first place, according to chart?
On the whole topic, my own preferences:
1) Appearance is very situational. Pretty girl/model are more likely to get a click from me, but so are streams without a camera or avatar. It's not so much about looking at someone pretty, although it's obviously a bonus, but more about not looking at someone I find unpleasant for hours.
2) Personality or content is what I stay for. If I just wanted boobs, real or anime, there are much better sites than yt or twitch for that, I want some actual substance or entertainment.
3) Voice. Not part of original topic, but a very big deal for me. If it's a voice that I don't like, it's a literal suffering to watch those videos, even if both looks and content are very good. And for the opposite, a good voice might make me stay for content I'd usually would have no interest in.
thank you for this thorough comment! i love when people share the beeg thoughts!!!
re: Why men are powerless if they aren't pretty and have no boobs, when it's not what they are supposed to offer in the first place, according to chart? ... i have two responses to this!
1. male vtubers that have struggled to grow, in the past, have told me something to the effect of "you're growing because you're pretty, and i'm not growing because i'm not." it's an easy way for anyone to victimize themselves, to say "you can do that, but i never can," and it effects performance. for example, i've met male vtubers who simply give up, or stream for several hours and barely saying a word, cause they don't think they have a chance anyway, so they stop putting in effort altogether. that's why i say it creates powerlessness... if you can't grow, cause you're a guy, then what's the point of investing effort? with this logic, there isn't, and if you make it, "you're just lucky."
2. i think men can be "pretty" because beauty is such a subjective thing. there are beautiful male vtubers out there, that attract male and female attention (i think of Lord Aethelstan, for example, some of my male friends watch him). now, male vtubers may not have boobs, but i've encountered some that do, which is interesting (there's increasing body diversity in the vtuber community).
all that to say... i think there's a binary view of what men vs women can offer, which limits people's perception of what they can and can't do. i went a different route with vtubing, because i wasn't concerned with these "boxes" people put themselves in, and that's what brought me to where i am today. i think more people could find happiness, friendship, and success (whatever that means to the individual), if they thought more openly about things.
I see, it wasn't clear for me from your reaction that it wasn't a direct response to the original video.
It's kinda weird to hear about vtubers complaining about not being pretty enough. Didn't they themselves choose their avatar? I doubt anyone would pick something ugly, unless they specifically go for a theme. And they can always change it later.
You mentioned something briefly that I want to talk about. It has to do with men finding it difficult to share their feelings.
That has always been an issue for me. I don't know why but I've always been "the dad" in every group I've ever been in. So I've always felt a pressure to keep it bottled up, or hide my feelings. I literally had an emotional breakdown last week because taking up that role was starting to feel suffocating for me.
Another thing you talked about I want to touch on.
Not sure if you remember when I first came across your channel, but I treated you as just another UA-camr, rather than a Vtuber. I still go by that standard even now. You're a person beyond that avatar. You're a person, a dang good one. You matter.
This may be beating a dead horse but society and rather, nature as a whole, usually expects the males to take on that role. The higher our intelligence and awareness, the worse it is to deal with because we truly aren't meant to not actually think about those roles so deeply which makes it a human only problem that we suffer from. Society dictates that everything falls to men and that includes the blame. You finding it difficult to share your feelings isn't a you problem because men in general are chastised for it. Even if you specifically aren't chastised for it, its a ingrained thing into our very being. We all take it on the chin and its selective for when we're blamed for not sharing our feelings. The struggle is very much real and the more modern we get, the more it seems this problem continues to get worse for us. All I can say is to stay strong brother. We all know these problems plague us but we're very resilient to these things. Its important to find a balance for self expression and stoicism. Its why a lot of escapist things like gaming, other nerd stuff and even vtubers are usually dominated by a male demographic. Its our way of finding that outlet to express those emotions in a healthy way compared to simply letting everything fester
I think something that doesn't help is you see women who genuinely want to help and want men to be open with their feelings, but another group of women who would shame men if they do, often men do not differentiate and a small demographic of women sometimes do both and that has only thrown fuel on the fire
UA-cam constantly gives me ads for 50+ women in my area. Make it stop.
With vtubers I kinda like how I don’t have to focus as hard on the reactor or player, and can view whatever is happening on the screen more fixedly. I don’t have to focus on a vtubers face and body language as much because the avatar’s expressions are easier to read I suppose, I think so anyway. Also, it’s always fun watching people react to Asmon, don’t catch his streams, just his yt videos, but he is one of my other favorite creators.
Also I just find a lot of vtubers at least somewhat more entertaining, or with objectively “better” takes than a lot of other channels/streamers now.
Yeah that's a good difference. With regular people I watch the gameplay more than the gameplayers. But with Vtuber's it's much more enjoyable to look at the Vtuber Model. Sometimes more than the gameplay itself.
“Flesh-tuber”. We truly live in prequel for cyberpunk lol
Loving the recent uploads Lila!
I like this video. Your points are really well thought out and very encouraging, too. Also, I love that robots reference in the end😂
Not really sure how to say this politely but I wish you would talk after Asmongold makes his points not before
Loved the whole conversation and really appreciated the perspective you brought into it. Liked how you expanded on the topic and not just directly reacted to what the video was saying.
Personality is more important than Looks. Sure, Looks IS an important factor to determine if you want to... have fun.... with a person. But to learn about them, about their Character... you dont need to know how they look like.
Watching VTubers reminds me of the Time when i actively connected with others in online games. Spending time with each other, learning their personality and behaviour... without knowing how they look like and by the point you see them, you finally have a Frame to put all that personal traits in, that you hoarded for months xD
My first Crush was a Girl that i befriended in a MMO. Played together for Weeks, talked, made jokes,... typical friends stuff. Charming person, good humor.
At some point we revealed how we look like to each other. Turned out she could have been a Model with her Looks, completely stunning. She made it clear that a relationship with an online-friend was not what she wanted. Still played the MMO together until we both lost interest in the game. Still had contact for several months after that.
Found my best female friend in the same MMO. Same process. Met by chance, learned each others personality over weeks and months - still my best Friend for ....i think 15 years now.
For me personally, meeting someone in an online game seems to be the best chance to find friends and Partner. My best memories are from Girls that i met in a Game :3
3 Girls (and their closest Friends) have a special Place in my Heart.
I started watching vtubers with Kizuna AI back in like 2016 or something and it was because she presented herself as an AI UA-camr (boy how far we've come) and I was hooked, my favorite part about vtubers is the persona they put on and how they make the most use out of it, that's not to say I dislike vtubers like you who present themselves with no persona I really like your content, however Japanese vtubers play into their character harder than western vtubers while at the same time injecting them with their own personality, for example Pekora rarely breaks character, she's always saying Peko and keeping up her "pekoland" lore, but what made her so popular was her inherit chaotic personality, witty comments, unique voice and overall talent.
the energy you gals bring is why i've migrated to watching vtubers often now a days. the cute models help but it helps when you mesh the cute model with someone that can bring so much energy to the front.
I was into Vtubers since the start of shirakami. I don't watch any gameplay videos really but a ASMR video? I'll watch all of them. The comfort and cuteness and just pure relaxation and stress relief is unrivaled.
just subscribed because of how insightful you are
Don’t really watch any Vtubers except Lila here on UA-cam, have never enjoyed livestreams. However, from the few I have seen, it’s not as much about the Vtuber model as it is their personality. I personally find it kind of strange still, but I’m getting progressively more used to it, along with the internet entire. I enjoy how down to earth Lila is and the commentary she brings to the table, I just wish she did a larger variety of things.
I dont know if it is related to the boom in vtubers and the relevant creators just werent suggested to me before but I feel like in the gaming space there are now so many more female vtubers that make gaming content which is my primary interest then before. Like before Vtubers I can remember watching Dodger, KatherineofSky and Materwelonz as female gaming creators and that was kind of it. So I feel like I watch more Vtubers because they make the content I want an not specifically because they are Vtubers. This of course begs the question why female creators that were making content in that space (because I am sure they existed and exist) dont really take of or get reccomended to people. Like why do they not show up in my recommended?
Because I was interested I checked online some of the bigger female gaming channels and I have literally never heard of most of them even though they have signifcant subscriber numbers and seem to cover games I am or was interested in in the past yet I cant remember some of them ever showing up in my recommended or even search results. Why does youtube have this bias? Does it just asume because I have been watching mostly male creators that I dont want to watch female ones? Because that would be stupid to asume if it never recommends them to me....
I watch a lot of content about weird and niche games but I also watch a lot of vtubers, you would think the algorithm would be smart to put two and two together and show me a combo of both, but I often have to stumble onto a vtuber playing a weird and niche game I like when going through their backlogs or I have to go out of my way to find it
Thank you for talking seriously about these things!
I should point out that "antisocial behaviours" in this highlighted part 17:15 is not talking about how social someone is. It's talking about propensity for criminality. For those that don't know, the clinical term is ASPD or antisocial personality disorder. Something like 80% of the prison population has it.
As to men not being as social... some of it is learned sure. But most of it is genetic. Throughout history men have almost always been soldiers or in other unpleasant occupations. It's little wonder then that we don't tend to be as openly emotional.
1:06 this aged like a good wine 😅 nijisanji
47:04 - I know one russian vtuber , Orc Podcaster. He's vtuber since 2011 (his avatar was WoW orc)
I like Vtubers for a couple of reasons:
-As an artist in training, I strive to make art as pretty as most Vtuber models
-Vtubers tend to be affiliated with anime culture overall, which I'm also personally invested in
-Vtubers are chaotic, unhinged and I love them for being so in a world where most streamers are very safe
-Vtuber communities are also REALLY nice. No joke, the nicest Twitch chats I've seen are specifically from Vtubers.
REally great analisys, I enjoied your video very much ( learned a lot). I agree with many of your points.
When a male say femininity, they mean that your avatar comes across as more feminine because men really really like
cuteness, they just don't say it.
You look cute, you act more yourself and girly. Basically cuteness.
Fat shaming is a thing | So is Skinny Shaming. I get told I need a burger so many times.
Thanks for taking my reaction request!
I ended up agreeing with so much of what you said and I appreciate the contrary nuanced perspective to Asmon's.
Here are some of the thoughts I wanted to leave:
1. (9:34) That one instance of a Vtuber posing as a female (I think called Nora Cat) was apparently actually known in their community as a man and their following only grew after the incident. I think it's funny that instance gets often cited and it isn't even in full defense of their point.
2. (15:18) I think it's true there aren't many male Vtuber role models out there. The only majorly successful ones I know are from Nijisanji where they are anamolously more popular than their female gens. The fewer role models point is a good counter perspective on why male vtubers can't thrive as much. As it stands now with few role models to learn from, it seems it's more viable to be a fleshtuber with no face cam vs a male Vtuber (in my opinion), though maybe if the industry changes that won't always be the case. As a man, I think it's hard to tell the full breadth of a male vtuber's appeal.
3. (23:42) I think a counter to your point where you don't think looks actually mattered as much has to do with first impressions. I think unfortunately it's true when watching a Vtuber the first thing that determines if I click is if their model is appealing in some way (not provocatively but in terms of quality), but you are right that it gets followers but it doesn't get *actual viewers*. I may click on a stream with a good model *but a good personality is 80% of why I would stay*. That initial physicality I don't know a way to fix, but I think your statements throughout about how fixing men's mentalities can help emerge empathy has a lot of validity to it.
4. (30:30) I think the point of garnering a viewership of respect is important and validated by people's experience in the adult entertainment industry. One Vtuber I know talked about their past experience needing to be in the adult industry and their frustrations on how nobody cared about their personality and just wanted to see physicality. For many that can be extremely draining and it shows you attract what you put out in those kinds of spaces. The successful "lewd tubers" I've seen like Shylilly, Annytf, Nekrolina, etc seem to be the ones who teach chat to accept their boundaries and make sure at the end of the day chat respects them. That's probably why they have longevity.
5. (38:16) I *really* appreciate your nuanced and psychological approach towards why men supposedly are shallow. I think it's very true and something I even overlooked. (Also, based Dr. K viewer 👍)
6. (50:58) I am curious about what you have to say about parasociality because that is an important and not well-discussed factor that I think is rampant in online platforms.
7. (52:22) I think Asmon's point about OnlyFans creators being degens too was meant to be in an endearing way humanizing them to be just like Twitch viewers, not necessarily trashing on them.
Extra:
(42:38) Asmon Papa is a meme in Asmon's chat because he reacted to a Japanese vtuber briefly and got known by her as Asmon Papa. It's a funny saga to watch if you're interested
_I realized while writing this that I had a lot more to say than I initially thought and that I might've come off a bit parasocial at times, but I couldn't really word it any other way. Oh well._
Tldr: Getting to see the genuine nature of a content creator and Vtuber appear from behind the model over time is very fun to me.
One of my favorite aspects of watching Vtubers is, over time, getting to see how the character they play falls away and the personality of the person behind the model emerges more and more. Don't get me wrong, when a Vtubers puts a TON of work into lore and character creation before and immediately after debut, it's enjoyable. It can lead to some truly amazing content and introductions to new creators, and many they do this because it's fun for both them and their community.
But watching a creator slowly break away bit by bit from the character and get more comfortable just being themselves while streaming is one of my favorite things to witness. Finding out what makes streamer genuinely laugh to the point of having stop stream to catch their breath, what games or movies scare them bad enough their mic gives out, the rapport and relationship they build with their community and chat. Being able to joke around in ways they wouldn't've been able to earlier on because they were keeping up a character. Those moments of... authenticity makes it sound like they were being fake, maybe vulnerability? Genuineness? Not sure. Those are my favorites.
Take Calli and Kiara for example. At debut, they had this...honestly kinda awkward for everyone, ship that they (or at least Cover) seemed to be pushing for a bit that Calli very clearly didn't seem all that comfortable with. It didn't feel genuine but the idea was fun for many viewers. Once the manufactured ship was through with, it became a lot more fun for me to watch both of their content as they evolved in their own ways and it seems they got closer as friends once they weren't being made to do...whatever the first minecraft stream was lol
I agree. As if I read it all.
That vtuber was Noraneko. I'm pretty sure the stereotype was around even before that incident. There are other vtuber openly doing that too which definately doesn't help xD
Wait has Lila not heard the story behind the Asmonpapa nickname? Think someone needs to watch the clips from the Asmonpapa and Kasii saga :D
The voice actor for Michael from gta5 got swatted recently while playing gta5 for the 10 year anniversary
When it comes to male mental health, it is what it is i guess. When my sisters had issues, my dad and mom would do anything to help them out.
When my brother and I would start crying or fighting over some random $hit, we would get the belt. 😂😂
My introduction to female streamers were Vtubers. I kinda agree to what Aasmond said that we often judge flesh streamers and Vtubers differently. Although i do judge vtubers based on their personality i often noticed my self judging female streamers in different standards and i do think looks play apart. Idk why tbh.. maybe bc already vtubers are cute by default and so i dont think of that?? Maybe..idk
I personally have an aversion to things on the internet that seem like they are only trying to be cute, I literally just want to feel like I can interact with a person or learn something from the person I watch. I only ended up actually watching any Vtubers because of Vedal and his interactions with his AI Neuro as well as being a part of the Linux community and finding Asahi Lina developing kernel drivers for the M1, M2, and M3 Macs. I see the people behind these things as people and had just not been interested in anything until I saw stuff like that.
As for the society part I think society should be more kind in general because I see so many problems that to me could have been very easily avoided given that you treated every person with a similar level of empathy. I had a bunch of issues with mental health and probably still do but it is less visible to me now that I have interacted with people about the things I feel and I saw other people on the internet that had similar experiences and heard about how they cope with things.
Ok, but for real, I like having a 2D avatar so I can just be myself and the outside/physical perception of myself is not a part of the equation. It was also a health and safety thing because I was being stalked when I started and vtubing was a way I could regain my identity and keep myself safe.
Imo Asmon didn't take the male streamer as the victim here. I take it in comparison as in the situation that both a male and a female streamer performing well, gaming well, the male viewers will watch the male streamers no matter how he looks. But the female streamer, there's more chance that the male viewers will change channel just because the female streamer doesn't looks attractive. I didn't say it's a good thing. It''s sad. But it happened. I think i even one of the ashole because i literally watch a male streamer with hairy chest no shirt looking ragged playing YuGiOh while i choose to watch a less pro (?) female streamer just because she's lookin more cute than the one who's actually playing better (heck, i copy some of her decks).
By becoming vtuber, female streamer could take that burden away. No need to wear good lookin shirts.Applying make up God knows how long just for the stream (my mom is a streamer too, so i kinda know how long it takes to prepare). In a sense it's easier for male game streamer to appeal than a female streamer that's not a vtuber because female vtuber can smile and looking good everytime. That's why female vtubers are dominating the popularity chart. Because the the viewers can get to watch well performing streamers who looks cute everytime.
Again, it's not something good. It just what happened.
Edit: Btw there's this vtuber called Janken. He looks like Randon but human for me Lmao
Dang, i wish Randon and Janken would collab one day...
I think vtubing is also great because it breaks the language barrier even if you don't understand everything you can follow because the models are super expressive
I have so many audio files of Neuro Sama & people who interact with Vedal & Neuro Sama etc
I like vtubers because I want the distance myself. I like the fantasy aspect and I want it to stay a fantasy.
Thanks for introducing me to 3 new people to consider looking at. The orc guy is a new and interesting one to me. I am kinda aware of more people like that, like kobold vtubers and such but they are harder to show up in recommended.
It could also be that VTubers in general are treated better by commenters because of a kind of disconnect. With a real person, it feels maybe more real. And a real person is easier to judge. But with a VTuber, all you got is the model and a voice. So it might be easier for a lot of people to realize that this is not the actual person.
It might also be darker. That people have an easier time being nice to an anime girl, then to a real girl. Potentially because at some point in their life, a real girl might have hurt their feelings.
Everyone is different, it's not really realistic to decide something for an entire sex when there's so many differences in everyone's lives and genetics. And yeah, looks don't determine how successful someone is either, Asmongold can't speak for everyone.
I got into watching vtubers in early 2021, I've also jumped between communities a bunch because there's more that comes into play like finding someone relatable, and a community of people who click with you. It also can depend where you feel comfortable or feel like you fit in. But at the end of the day there's a variety of stuff people might be looking for in a streamer/streamer's community and it's impossible to tie it down to a few simple things.
NGL ive follow and watch vtubers due to their models.
Vtubers are all about content and personality, not looks. Not all of them made it, but vtubers can find a spot when they feel comfortable with themselves. I watch vtubers like any other streamer because they are streamers like everyone else, people should not judge their appereance.
Happy Holidays, Lila.
I'd like to add that female vtubers may also have a baked in audience from a long while back. Vocaloids like Hatsune Miku were big for a while, and the evolution of the tech into Kitzuna Ai made it mainstream. We're basically seeing a whole new market which was originally penned in just explode. Appreciate the take on mental health as well. I also do agree charisma has a strong impact on a creators staying power, but attractiveness is a pivotal part of initial engagement for that first click. Love Gillie's content, so cute.
As a male who suffers from anxiety and struggles with being social, as well as streams with a vtuber model (my profile pic is the initial draft for the base of what i wanted my model to look like. It's just me, minus my beard lol) I felt this one in my soul lol. I don't really mind though. I stream because I find it fun. Even if I don't have may people watching it's still fun. When I streamed as myself, it was significantly less fun. For me, streaming as myself makes my anxiety go nuts and I can't be entertaining. It's easier when I'm playing as a character, although my character is just me being myself as an avatar. I don't want to turn it into a job or have to rely on it though, so I refuse to advertise myself. This keeps my view count down. I can talk to 10 people WAY easier than I can talk to 50. I was streaming while writing a song and I was raided by a friend of mine who had 150 viewers drop in, and I froze up lol. Being a vtuber has made it possible for me to stream at all though, and thats worth it! My point was just to point out that mental health is a huge crutch, at least for me, to do this. I know I can't be alone, and this kind of supports that, which makes me feel a little better for feeling this way.
Personally I like the vtuber scene cause its a return to the original form of the internet.
The internet shouldnt be real life, just look at the damage to social norms and mental health that have become the norm.
It was always the trash of the net that wanted it to be real, psychos, catfishes, and identity thieves... and with the advent of social media those people won and society is slowly becoming lost.
I think if you are a good looking girl that shows booba you will get more initial attention because guys are more willing to give you a shot but if you don't have anything beside that like being funny, a gamer, entertainer or anything else you will not retain much of that initial attention and nit grow your audience. Even with vtubers a good looking model helps but there is a reason one of my favourites is Ina, one of the flatest members in hololive en. She is just comfy vibes personified as well as a good artist.
When vtubing first started getting big in korea, lot of the bigger ones at the start before isegye idol was just no cam streamers on twitch that turn their characters into vtuber models and that was interesting to see as a regular vtube viewer
spoke alot of facts in this one.
When it comes to attractiveness, I've seen male/female content creators with drama have their channel slowly die and others that continued on. "Unattractive" content creators can build an audience, but only have their personality to go on. If their audience learns that the creator isn't as nice as they style themselves as, their audience will leave, and if they change no one will know. "Attractive" creators retain their audience for longer after drama, and if they rebrand the drama will be forgotten instead the creator being forgotten.
So while what is more attractive or who values attractiveness more can be argued, I think overall it plays a role for both genders. But as you said, there are hansom and pretty faces on the internet that get no traction. What keeps people watching is the creator's personality.
You are doing the comment content much more entertaining than the average "uh oh "soy face" andy"
Keep up the good work Lila!
People in the vtuber community are a lot nicer since it attracts a different type of audience. It's the ones that grew up with anime and now they are old enough to be wiser and smarter than the kids that just seek boobs anywhere on the internet. So a combination between an older audience and people that also enjoy personality as well as a cute avatar creates a better community in the vtuber space than the horny 14y old kids who just discovered Amoranth on Twitch and compared to the Hub, here they can actually talk to a real woman.
As one of my favorite yotubers (Logicked) pointed out, because he has a cartoon avatar or is usually a masked real life persona, it makes it a lot easier for people to focus on what he is saying that on who he is or what he looks like. And I think vtubers have it even better than that. Because an anime avatar jumps both hurdles at once. It makes it easier for people to enjoy the entertainment and the discussion but also provides entertainment and eye candy with the avatar itself. But since it is a not "real" woman, it's never distracting or boring enough to take away from the personality and the things the person behind the avatar is saying.
In the end, Asmongold is not entirely correct in his analysis but does make a few good points. The best part of the video was the fact that you picked up on the things he got wrong and brought a different perspective.
I watch vtubers bc they actually put an effort into bein funny, entartaining, etc. You don't feel like they are just using their "beauty" to get viewers. like they feel more real in a way. and some vtubers are just down to earth and i enjoy that more.
That pole that Asmongold put on 24:14 is about regular streamers, not vtubers
I truly feel like the algorithm plays more of a role then everything else. One person might get there content pushed more for less.
Personality keeps people there but it's a challenge trying to grow in the first place.
The random sexualization is really ridiculous, especially with ones like Ina who are amongst the most wholesome. What makes it worse is when that's done despite a clear boundary saying not to do so. There's a reason behind special art tags for such things; the person isn't comfortable with those things and so wants to block them. I don't like it when people don't respect the wishes of others despite being able to. I will admit that I'm not the best at reading the room, but even so I know enough to get a vague idea of whether or not someone is okay with it. And anyways, it's usually best to play it safe and not do so on stream or in comments on their channels or those of their friends. If you decide to make such art then make sure you use the appropriate tags. I know that I might be hypocritical in some cases, but everybody is at one time or another.
14:08 to be honest for me the reasons why i watch certain vtubers differ quite a lot. There are vtubers that i mainly watch for the looks and don't really pay attention to what is going on with the content. But there are also vtubers where i don't like the looks that much but i stumbled across their content and liked what i saw. And then there is the middle ground wich i do watch the most being a nice looking model and good content
i totally agree with you btw
Great comments!
It's silly, but in a way I do feel kind of called out. I like the idea of having a channel or streaming, but these among other opportunities I've not pursued because one- social anxiety, and two- it'd be a lot of work. I've also got a different passion project I'm working on along with school and some other excuses, but yeah.
I do agree that Asmongold's idea of Vtubers is very incomplete- maybe not fully off-base, but honestly if his views were expressed by women we'd probably consider them misandrists.
I'm no expert but someone brought up that to attract a man looks matter, to keep a man you need personality, the way I see it in my uneducated opinion is that vtuber models is an equalizer for women and the women who managed to stay on top with looks alone now has to compete with women who are more entertaining
ooo this is a good way of framing and explaining it. that's what i was trying to say -- models are important for getting the initial "view," but long-term retention of viewers requires more. this also explains why just having a high-quality / attractive model isn't enough if you want to grow as a vtuber, so counting yourself out because of low budget / a cheaper model is a mistake. thanks for commenting!
The first vtuber i watched was Silvervale. Through her I found Ironmouse, Projekt Melody, then Takahata. I create content and stream here on UA-cam. I am interested in being a vtuber. But I am unsure where to begin. 🤔
Out of interest, would the people here consider Porcelain Maid (Jowol) as a male vtuber or a female vtuber?
Knee jerk response with no knowledge of what they've said on the subject and only a few experiences with his content, male.
There's an ancient internet meme (back before we even called them memes!) that describes the internet as a place where "the men are men, the women are men, and the children are F.B.I. agents".
The idea of the meme was the assumption (I don't know how substantiated it was) that a lot of the female personas you would see were men that wanted the attention, or special treatment, or even that it was just a role to play: disassociating your online presence from your real one was way more common back then, I think.
There's also the phenomenon that many gamers prefer to play characters they find attractive, so males would prefer to play as pretty female characters. So when online multiplayer started becoming more of a thing, many female characters you'd see would be male players.
Yea, i agree with you. A nice Vtuber model might get you some clicks, but if you are boring no one will stay..
Leave it to Asmon to turn a graph into a 16 minute video, then Lila to turn that into a 54 minute video
People will watch, listen, etc something they hate just because they want to then comment, post, etc how bad, hate, etc it. To either get others angry as they love it, to cause drama (as they love it again) or just to get the views, replies, etc. As it is basically what they want. Even if it takes more to go out of their way to do all that, they would rather do it just because it's what they love to do. Its annoying but sadly that's really what a lot of the internet is. People just doing something so they can in turn complain, rage, etc about it and watch internet drama start. Even if pointless thing to do as just wastes their own time but some just love to do that.
To me vtubing is just the same as "fleshtubers" in the end. Don't matter what is there for 'picture' as its the personality/etc that is what makes the stream, youtube, etc worth it. I never really watched vtubers but one day long back I was suggested a reaction video to a "letsgameitout" video because I watch his videos all the time and it was a shylily reaction. Was really first 'vtubing' watched and just led to watching the rest of her reactions to his stuff, then other things, leading to more and more vtubers being recommended, leading to more found that are cool/etc. And really now I watch multiple ones not because of "sexy" or etc models but due to their content is just great. Heck that was how ran into lila here too, Josh's videos and reactions led to her reactions too, which in turn led to looking into more things leading to watching more/subscribing/etc.
As long as their content is cool, fun, etc, no matter who(flesh person) or what(vtuber characters male or female) is doing it, it's worth watching :). As behind that image is a flesh tuber in the end, just instead of face cam, its an avatar.
for some reason this just reminds me of Zoro and Kuina from one piece
9:54 and if i remember correctly, apparently it wasnt even a real thing, it was a troll
Lila you should watch Camila talking to AI version of herself made by Vedal, it was amazing
I don't want anime girls...
I want inanimate objects!
I also watch a lot of niche content based on science and some political stuff.
I can "out cute" an anime girl, I'm ready to win
Just wanted to say I appreciate hearing your deep insights.
I think between the two of you, really, you are debating Nature VS Nurture.
*Sorry, it turned into a essay, read at your own peril.
You definitely can do some of the things you suggested, such as listening and being more understanding to men's mental health issues or promoting more healthy ways of interacting- all that good stuff.
However.....
It's always going to be limited between the confines of our nature's, both as humans and biologically by what gender we were born.
Evolution has also played an incredible large role in why we are the way we are.
Women build support support networks because historical the Women in tribes who had more friends would have other women to help raise children, it was essentially a collaborative effort.
Meanwhile the Men would typically go in small hunting parties or even solo to go hunt and these could be prolonged periods of time.
Bringing in forwards from there, up until the advent of the Pill, which basically revolutionised the world for women, broadly speaking prior to it's invention, Women were stay at home mothers with support networks ranging from their neighbours to parent/child groups and so on, Meanwhile men would be the sole provider but work insane hours, basically having only his work friends.
All of the above to say, for a very long time Men and Women have lived very different existences until recently and Evolution is a slow thing to change.
Therefore, we are still hardwired the above manners, even if we no longer live that way or even if society has changed.
And whilst we like to think we are fully in control of ourselves the reality is that we aren't.
A lot of what drives us is in-effect, a type of "programming" psychologically speaking and it's incorrect to think it's source is the society you live or grew up in although society obviously has a limited effect.
For example the color Pink, we'd consider it a "girls color"
Is that true? No, it's a social construct.
Centuries ago, Pink dyes were easier to make (just red with the white Linen, combined with Red dye from berries) but Blue (a masculine color) was much harder wnd more expensive hence why Royalty would wear Capes etc that were deep Blue colors, we even have the term "Blue blood" to refer to nobles and the term "Royal blue" as a pigment of color.
However, the big things don't change regardless of the society; Are Men more aggressive? Yes
Are Men more likely to operate in smaller social groups? Yes
Are they hardwired to think about "spreading their seed?" Yes
Because these deep-seated things are true it sadly DOES deeply impact the choices we make or how we feel.
I'm not saying we are 100% slaves to our nature's, we definitely can defy or deny SOME of it.....but only SOME of it.
Nature VS Nurture is the eternal tug of war we all have to suffer through and at a individual level, some of us are more in control, others less so.
So my opinion is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of you and Asmongold.
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As for me, the cute factor thing helps but the biggest draw for me is gaming.
I'm Autistic and Autistic people often have a "focus"
Mines always been gaming or anything tangentially related.
Anime, whilst not gaming, has intersected with the "geekdom" for decades and is at this point intertwined with gaming, often using the art style in gaming too.
But for me, it's usually about the games and whether you are interesting.
I watched Vox Akuma at times despite his following being mostly girls and gay guys and it can be fun.
Equally I swap between all manner of Vtubers, provided they are playing a game I like and are interesting people.
But I am not a typical viewer, i'm on the older side, in my 40s, got a kid and I'm a widower.
I would imagine most viewers are in the 13-24 demographic and it's just a fact of life they are thinking about "doing it" s lot more.
Inevitably they are going to be drawn to personal, cute voices and good looks, whether that's "fleshtubers" or "Vtubers"
I bring age into this because it's a big factor imo.
I remember a world pre-internet so how we lived grew up and interacted with people was VERY different.
In some ways the modern day youth have it easier but others much harder.
So much of their interactions are digital in nature that I imagine some of the "vtuber hate" is partially age related or partially coming from the less online guys.
Anyways I could ramble all day, apologies for the essay.
I watched this whole video and it was based af. First time I've seen any of your content and it's an EASY subscription. I don't think I've ever seen a vtuber talk about the issue of men's mental health like you did here. Once again I feel inspired to become a vtuber like I wanted to. I already have a model... guess it's time to make use of it.
I know its ten days past when this went up, and I know you likely won't see this comment but I had to get a lot of it off my chest.
around the... like.. 14:00 or 16:00 minute mark, I saw another take on this on a different video here on YT, and I think it hits really hard at a core point - men get told they're ugly and shrug it off because that's not what they bring to the table. That's not what they're offering. Tell asmon he's bad at the game, or has a shitty personality, and watch him go off. That's the primary thing he brings to the table- his personality, his entertainment, his gameplay. Call him bald and ugly and he just laughs it off.
However: Tell a woman she's ugly and wrinkly and she loses it because that's what she brings to the table; her looks. And in more and more cases with flesh-tubers... that's ALL they bring to the table. You're not here for the gameplay, so she won't care if you say she's bad. She knows why you're here and it's not what's on 50% of the monitor. personality and entertainment don't even enter into it because that's not why you're there. And when the tiddy no longer appeals, or her grating voice or annoying personality outweigh the benefits of why you're there... you leave.
Case in point- I walked into a female twitch stream once just 'cause I was tired of watching guy after guy get mad at games and screaming my headphones off. She was sitting there, writing donators names on her chest, with links to her throne, amazon wishlist, and onlyfans prominently displayed on her profile, stream description and info page. There was nothing there that I would even REMOTELY describe as anything other than "you're here to give me money and look at me, and we both know it."
A comment on the video I referenced above said something super poignant- "I stopped watching fleshtubers because they insisted and acted entitled to your money, time, and subs by virtue of the fact that they leaned forward and inhaled. I watch V-tubers because they make me laugh and feel wanted as a part of the community." and after that twitch stream, I gotta agree.
So when you have a V-tuber who comes in and is entertaining, thoughtful, intriguing, and well-spoken, you might get first-click for the tiddy but you stay and come back over and over because you've got someone who is entertaining to watch, fun to listen to, has a soothing voice, or just in general is more humble. They give the guys who watch what they seem to value a lot more (as evidenced by the success and income of vtubers vs people) - fun, entertainment, a sense of belonging, and a touch of humility."
And the point is further proven at 6:45 as he says (and as you prettymuch allude to like a minute later) - amouranth is the only 'naughty' streamer with more than 10k views. Asmon's plain wrong when he says that's what they're there for. It's what they come for (pun hardly intended) but it's not what they stay for. And Vtubers dominating the scene with having no physical body for people to simp over and having to rely on being personable, humble and entertaining is what makes the guys stick around and follow for months or years.
Now, something you mentioned at 16:30 - women have higher rates of depression, but men have higher rates of ... shall we say... removing your spawnpoint in minecraft. women attempt more, sure, but men succeed an order of MAGNITUDE more. (And if you REALLY wanna be uncharitable, you could make the [terrible] argument that one group does it for attention and one does it to solve a problem.) I fully believe men have higher rates of depression but are straight-up told that their feelings are a burden, unneeded, and should be kept under wraps.
You directly reference it at 19:10 - and I agree. They're told "nobody gives a flying dutchman how you feel. Bottle it up, don't talk about it, and get out of my face. We care ONLY about what you do." - and they will. They'll go back to doing, go back to streaming, until it's too much to handle and they either fly off the handle and go psychotic or... Alt-F4.
And it ties back into streaming: we care about what men (and subsequently, male streamers) DO, what they PROVIDE, not how they look. Nobody gives a flying dutchman how they look. Even in our insults for women, we'll say "wow, she's pretty AND she plays games?" - for men, we don't go "wow, he's a gamer AND looks good?" it's literally not even on our radar how he looks aside from being tall. It's so much of a point of non-care that it's the same as commenting on the fact that he has five fingers and toes, to the point that it's almost odd to bring it up. For evidence, look no further than asmon himself. I would be shocked if anyone watches him because they think he's attractive.
Also at 28:30 - I wanted to say thank you. My (male) friend linked me this video specifically because of this point and I watched it up to this point not knowing what you were going to say. He says that it prettymuch nearly brought him to tears, and I thought for the longest point he meant 'brought to tears from laughter' that I was shocked to realize what he meant.
Interesting take
Its ironic that the ratio applies to majority of the Vtubers especially girls in Hololive. I love Azuki so much even before her 3rd makeover which really skyrocketed her popularity, but its a thing when you are competing against your own agency co-workers. Its not just a Japanese mentality as well. IRyS suffered a similar situation that her popularity increased after her 2.0 debut (aka Tofu Vtuber).
IRyS and Azuki are great on their own, I was not bothered how they look like at all. But management had to really help and cater towards the looks to amplify their talents to shine even more.
Considering the topics that were being brought up I guess I could say that I’m part of a minority of guys that look for personality in everyone I watch whether it’s guys, girls, IRL Streamers or VTubers. I agree that Women are better at communicating than Men are, in a general term, but there are exceptions in certain fields where communication is a necessity in order to survive…like construction. Thankfully there are countermeasures to the Male Isolation mentality that are being implemented in major construction sites (as far as I know) throughout NA in the form anonymous call centres so men can get the help they need without feeling ridiculed for not “Dealing with it like a man”.
And you’re playing it smart.
Asmon's argument of looks above personality in content creators is just an assumption at the end of the day, based on his own limited experience. Like he was saying about weather forecasters - there's actually been a study in 2020 that concluded that 2/3 of weather forecasters in US are men. Same or even more so in other countries. So take all of Asmons arguments with a big bunch of salt, most of the time he operates on the same old prejudices.
I don't think it's entirely fair to assume people value overweight people less. I think it's more a matter of not respecting people that don't respect themselves.
Looks bring them in game play and personality keep them coming back
54 minute reaction to a 16 minute video? A true asmongol experience.
edit 1:
20:10 So True lol. If men have less depression and anxiety, explain the suicide rate?
I am not fond of this guy but since it is a video on your channel I think it is worth watching. I don't watch most of the popular streamers/youtubers. I prefer to watch the lesser known ones who are not so bold in putting out their views as revealed truth. I always preferred something more ambitious.
That's why channels like Internet Historian or your channel and many, many more are intresting for me. It's just that we people from abroad have always been inundated with American or American-style content through television, radio and for some time now through the Internet. It's been with us forever whether we want it or not. And when I, a European, have to listen to a typical American teenager or young adult who shouts into a microphone and doesn't even know how to use it, I'd rather jump out the window.
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And dude is probably partly right that many women we watch for looks. I just don't do that. It's like with graphics in games. Why do I need a good-looking game that is boring? Personality and voice when it comes to women vtubers and personality when it comes to women youtubers. And that's it.
I also don't watch many vtubers. I look for new ones, check out someone coming up but most don't interest me. I choose for myself. Why? Because I prefer to watch fewer vtubers who are original and interesting than most who are very similar to each other only with a different character model.
In fact, popular vtubers are not much different from typical popular non-vtubers. They curse, shout into microphones and talk about stupid things. That's why so many I don't watch. And that's why independent vtubers like Lilia and the whole already I think platoon or Hololive horde are so interesting. This simply means that I am getting older and selecting creators for my taste. That's why I'm here. It's not about age actually. It's more about behavior.
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These may be false impressions, but it seems to me that vtubers are divided into two groups. Some people still remain themselves to some extent and others play a role.
This is visible in women. Some women seem to be more mature than men. It was a famous text that I heard for many years at school. Women mature faster and become more serious.
When women "put on vtuber's clothes" they change. We know that we sometimes put on a mask when a person becomes a creator on UA-cam, but here I mean something else. Of course, everyone is different, but I have the impression that the camera embarrasses a person (which is a fact) and when such a person puts on vtuber's clothes, maybe they become more real? The camera is no longer so embarrassing and you can behave differently than what this so-called world requires.
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When you want to be popular, let's be honest, you try to play a role. Because something is trendy and you become part of the whole. Lots of people do this and there are many of them.
And this is also happening in the world of fairly new thing - vtubing. I still think the most important thing is to be yourself. It's easy for me to say because I'm an introvert and an observer. I don't have my own channel, so my words may sound like a smartass.
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Where is the golden mean? How to reconcile this? Pretend or be yourself? I want to make money, I want to be liked, I want to be myself. This just shows how we can pigeonhole ourselves. Slaves of trends. I don't think UA-cam is to blame here. Not from the beginning, anyway. We have set some standards and trends for ourselves and now we have to do it to be successful. That's why books and music are a better medium than UA-cam when it comes to the achievements of a single individual. In music and writing, the author/creator is able to express himself completely.
In the upcoming new year, I wish all UA-cam creators to be themselves and achieve success.Lila, health and joy of life in the coming year and all the years to come. Peace!
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Edit: I wrote this comment after watching the first 15 minutes. After that, you started talking a lot about it. I have been watching you for a short time. This is actually the first video in which I can listen to you longer. And goodness gracious, I'm glad I ended up here. I agree with you. You have big heart Lily.
I wanted to add regarding the objectification of women. I mentioned earlier about being part of the whole. And that ties in with the trends. Many men treat women and women vtubers not as a human being but something to satisfy his urges. Unfortunately, I don't have much knowledge about how many vtubers there are and how many of them take advantage of this, but it is partly a business. Women see money in this business and some vtubers have huge breasts and behavior that is perverted to say the least. And they have the right to do so only that they don't know that it can reflect negatively on other vtubers who don't want to be like that. They don't want to be part of a group that plays the way trends play them.
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It's not just about lustful men. It's also about culture. The look of vtubers didn't come out of nowhere. Some of them are characters that look like from anime. So a culture filled with eroticism. Even among young audiences due to cultural differences. In anime for 12-14 year olds you will see girls' panties, but in cartoons from other countries you won't. But it is not only a matter of culture and country but also of times. In American animations from the 1940s and later, we see our cartoon idols joking about Nazism, smoking cigarettes, mocking depression. How much has it changed over the years, right?
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I think that eroticism sells better is not true. It partly is. But the world is not black and white. The very existence of Hololive shows that diverse personalities sell well. From what I know, there aren't many lustful women there. And even if they are, they can integrate it nicely into their personality and do not give the impression of simply perverted women. E.g.: Marine senchou. But they have guidelines because it is their profession. They have a company and a boss over them.
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Currently, anime and manga are hot topic. Literally and figuratively. Not only among young people. And people watching vtubers may be people who require certain behaviors from vtubers. There are also vtubers who use that strategy. Its charm, lewdness and the fact that most of the viewers are men also anime fans. They fell into this cycle. But that's the way it is with everything in the world. Throughout the world, people will be guided by simple instincts and money, which we invented only in the 7th century BC. I don't want to mention the names of the creators here, but many famous vtubers use the fact that they are women, not their natural personality. Of course, some people are like that (perverted) because of growing up among certain people and neighborhoods. They have become immersed in the worse part of pop culture and will never get out of it. When I started meeting other non-hololive vtubers, I had a moment of disappointment. I watched a certain vtuber and she was very nice to listen to. It turned out to be a very specific video. She was talking to Neuro-sama and she was acting a differently than usual. I did not know that. I just came across her channel. After a few months, I saw her collab with another popular vtuber and I decided it was time to get going. I didn't watch it for erotic reasons. Some people are sometimes too open about their intimate lives.
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They all have their big breasts, they talk in a perverted way, they make sounds like excited anime girls, they swear, of course, because it's necessary. And I don't want to sound like an ideal person who goes to operas, plays the piano and visits vernissages. There are probably many vtubers who aren't like that, but I assume they are less popular and that's why it's hard for me to find them. The youtube search engine doesn't help with this at all. The longer I use YT and Google, and I have been using them since they existed, the more and more difficult it is for them to perform the basic function that they should do perfectly - search for what I want.
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But maybe I'm the weird one. I like writing long comments, which is also not popular. My friends tell me that I should be a UA-camr since I have so much to say or a vtuber. The latter would even suit me because I am an introvert. However, when I asked one vtuber how much something like this costs, I don't think I can afford it. This is not a cheap thing. Maybe it's a matter of who I ask. Idk.
Today I will try to look for interesting vtubers who are not popular again. As long as the algorithm is favorable. 47:00 - that's helpful.
This might be a hot take but i honestly don't think men have less often depression and anxiety then women. My theory is based on 1: my personal experience as a man, 2: my personal experience in working with mainly men, 3: the social conditioning men go through as kids. I'm a man who is diagnosed with depression. It took a lot of time (around 4 years) to finally open up to my doctor that i do struggle with mental health. The reason for it was mainly feeling shame for not being able to handle it without help as a man because society says men aren't supposed to show feelings. Seeing that i am diagnosed with depression and am aware of my symptoms i do see the same symptoms with a lot of other men who just stop talking when the topic of mental health comes up. Ofcause i'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist so i can't be certain but it does seem likely to me that people with the same symptoms like mine also have a similar problem. And while i'm nowadays able to talk freely about my mental health and am happy to talk to people that are interested in getting to know what it is like to have these problems, most people just can't talk about it. The reason why i'm so open about my mental health is that i'm of the opinnion that society can only learn how to behave around/talk to people like me if we start to talk with them and try to explain how it is to live with mental illnesses.
So yeah i think if we'd normalize men talking about problems i think the statistic would look drasticly different
now react to Vedal going into debt
Guys don't learn to care about looks, they are preprogrammed to do so by our genetics because there are benefits to do so, doubly so if you one's life span expectancy is short. They have to learn NOT to care as much, it is not complicated to change these minds sets but extremely difficult in a societal level. One aspect of it is in the K and R offspring ratios, and economic realities behind that.
I think people see an overweight person and thinks "oh he must be super wealthy and greedy, he probably doesn't care about sharing food with others" which is similar to the concept of gluttony as a sin. In reality, they may have bad genetics and may just be dealing with a lot of health and mental issues. You looking down on them probably makes it even worse
I like how you said you like streamers who are just real people with a vtuber model, those are usually my favorites. If you never checked out yuukina, Kiiminy, or imagin3_r3d I think you'd like them. They all have models but don't really consider themselves vtubers.
Talking from my experience here I think men don't want to ask for help or kept a lot to themselves not because they don't want people think they're weak but we want to find a solution first then we talk, we hate when something is unclear and unpredictable. Also I think men love to share about their problems in the past because it's a funny topic when we already got through it, but if it's a current problem without a solution yet, we don't want to talk about it.