Welding Aluminum Bicycle Frames
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2016
- This video shows the details of how a high-end aluminum bicycle frame is fabricated and welded.
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I used to weld aluminum bike frame parts for Trek bikes when they had a plant in Chehalis WA. Was originally Kleine bikes till Trek bought them out. We used tig welding with argon gas. the parts had to be meticulously clean to get best results. All parts were given a detergent bath and rinse to remove any grease or oil followed by a dip in an acid bath and neutralizer to remove oxidation. Then, the components were tack welded in sturdy jigs, adjustable for specific frame sizes.
An aluminum part can look perfectly clean but have a thin layer of oxidation. That layer melts at 2000 degree while the base metal melts at 1200. You get blow through as well as ugly blackened welds if the oxidation layer is not removed.
Scooter, thanks for 'chiming in' - you certainly know your stuff!
I don't know, the other side of that as far as industry info is concerned is that the oxide layer forms instantly, and you get rid of it not through heat, but the HF AC of the tig welder blasts it off. Or so they say. Does have to be scrupulously clean though.
Scooter George how well does a stainless wire brush work?
All I know is, if components sat around more than a few days, they went through the acid bath again. Centralia College used big, powerful Miller machines. I found some aluminum tubing in the scrap bin, and setting up the machine as told, tried welding. Got horrible black welds. burned holes in the metal. Had argon gas flow. good tungsten tip. aluminum LOOKED CLEAN. Instructor suggested I wire brush the parts first. Made a HUGE difference.
Works great BUT as long as you reserve it just for your aluminum stuff. The welding instructor at Centralia College in Washington said stainless but out at Trek bikes, they had a bench grinder with a steel wire wheel and it worked just fine.
Hats of to you Ron. Not only a great craftsman, but impressed that you've replied almost every comment, good, bad and ugly. Nicely done :)
Thank you so much. I have really tried to answer every serious question, but my most recent video has garnered 750 comments in 24 hours. I spent three hours this morning trying to catch up, but only made it about halfway through. I may get about as many comments every day this week, so at this rate I just won't be able to keep up. I suppose people have had worse problems!
Wow this is great! I dabbled a very teeny tiny bit in welding over quarantine in 2020 and am hoping to go to school soon to learn properly. I’m also getting into bicycling as well, so this video is just all around awesome 😃
I'm delighted that you enjoyed this video!
same but the school around here is partnered up with a communist tech college and they require mandatory vaccination in order to attend the school. No thanks!
I am impressed the with the jig table, and the way the drawing is used for aliment! And PRAISE GOD!!! That I learned something new today 👍
I'm delighted that you enjoyed this video. You may like some of the other videos I have on my channel - ua-cam.com/users/covellron
@@RonCovell will do thanks Mr. Covell.
I still have an SC aluminum 26" Chameleon hardtail from 2001 when they were still made in USA. Welds are beautiful on this frame. I cracked the seatstay and sent it to Frank The Welder who repaired it and it hung in his shop for two years until I remembered he had it. Got it back and built it up deluxe, now it's my commuter. Sadly an aluminum frame is not something you want to keep beating on for years due to its relatively low fatigue life when compared to steel or Ti so in order to keep riding it I'll just have to tone it down. But the geometry is a perfect fit for my body dimensions and riding style.
Sounds like a great bike for your planned usage!
Frank is welding royalty
This guy makes welding aluminium look easy. This is not a walk in the park.
Most people find some level of challenge with welding aluminum, but the only way to get good at it is to practice - a LOT!
+Ron Covell
With good interest and steady hand, about how many inches ? or hours ?
yes, it can depend on the welder. Thnx.
Dear Ron I love the shop tours , I am looking forward to the 3rd D.V.D on the roadster build ..Thank you for taking the time to make these Video's Pete M
Pete - glad you like them! I just started shooting the next video in the roadster series today. I don't know when it will be finished, and uploaded to UA-cam, but I'm on the way, at least.
Thanks for sharing, I am not sure there was much on this video, no cleaning steps, prep, specs, etc. just a little bit of welding, but the best I got was to use the breadboard flat to set the position of the parts to start. That was a good tip.
Glad you enjoyed it! I do have other videos that go into more depth on the welding processes:
ua-cam.com/video/3sp1BP29J4E/v-deo.html
That milling table, wow.
And those welds, laying dimes man. Super nice!
Yes, the fixturing table used at Santa Cruz Bicycles is fabulous, and their welder, Mike Woods, is very, very good.
Someone really knows how to burn it in deep getting maximum performance out of those welds, nice. Brings back memories having my dad weld a slippery set of handlebars to the top of my gooseneck. He nailed it perfest and slippage was a thing of the past. Good Video.
I'm glad you liked it!
Thank you for encouraging to let you do the work!!!
Always!
I bet everything in the welders house is super neat and precise, to match his work
nice little video. very interesting. keep those videos coming! thanks.
I'm so glad you liked it, and there are more videos on the way!
Always enjoy your videos, Ron. Thanks for taking the time to show us these interesting people/processes.
I appreciate your support. I was delighted to meet Mike Woods - he's an exceptional welder and craftsman.
Encourage him for us, we have no direct link and his work is commendable
Thanks very much for this video presentation Ron.
It was very enjoyable and quite a pleasure to watch.
Thank you. Sincerely,
Matthew
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
lmao
Amazing parts and workmanship 👍 Super impressed!🙂
Thank you! Cheers!
This video is right on time bro. I've been kicking around an idea for a purpose built delivery bike. I have sketches and ideas for the geometry but going from paper to actually making it is daunting.
Go for it!
I'll get my money up and show some pictures. Hopefully we can make something great together. I was thinking about this all morning on courrier.
Track bikes have their place but they're delicate and don't hold up
@Ron Covell
Thank you very much friend. I appreciate your kind reply. In the case of small workshops that do not have heat treatment, what do you recommend for welding, what contribution ER 4043 or ER 5554?
Many greetings friend. From Mexico City.
In my work, I used 4043 filler rod mostly for welding cast material. I have never seen or used 5554, but I use 5356 for parts that need the greatest strength, or that will be heat treated.
His welding skill is high level.
looks really cool. light and strong and straight after the straitning and heat treating
Aluminum is a great material to make a bicycle frame from, as long as it's heat treated!
What is the process for heat treating it? Also what grade of aluminum is it?
I wish Commencal saw this!! I’ve had two broken frames from them, all short of warranty expiration but neither honored! They admit to over heating but keep doing it!!
I'm sorry to hear that they do not honor their warranty.
On my list of projects to make when I get my powertig welder.
Am Scout - That will be a great project!
I love to understand how it works. Thank you very much. Now I understood how my bike was made. PHANTASTIQUE 😄😯🤟👨🦳
You are welcome 😊
Great workmanship...
I'm so glad you liked it!
excellent quality of welding, you are pro!
Ever thought of drilling holes in some of the tubing and sending gas purge up the bikes internals bit like the way process pipe welds are done.... there by creating a strong internal bead and by that process seriously strengthening the whole frame... Great welding ... Five Stars...
There are many cases where purging the inside of a tube while welding is very beneficial. Food-quality stainless tubing is one very common example.My understanding is that In the world of aluminum bicycle frames, purging is not generally used.
sir if i done retrofiting my xc mtb full suspension by installing internal cable does it affects the durability of the frame?
It all depends on where you put openings in the frame, and how the openings are reinforced.
Thank you for showing us around....er....the little table.
You bet!
Wow, this is amazing. I'm so passionate about engineering.
Glad you liked it!
This is fabrication, not engineering.
Good work. new V10 is a dream bike, wondeful
Thanks for 'chiming in'!
Wow this is great, I have never seen this before. hope to be in this business 👍
Best of luck, and let me know if I can help!
Very good!! 👨🏻🏭
Thank you! Cheers!
I have a linclon mig welder that also does flux core and a shitty campbell hausefeld 115 70 amp stick welder. I want to build a small bicycle cargo trailer for a mou tain bike. Well i happend to come across 4 bicycle frames that are a youth size and are deffinently peices and parts . A magnet sticks to them . Do i have to tig weld these or will one of the welders i have mentioned work?
Welding thin-wall steel tubing is challenging with a MIG welder, but it should be possible. If you can use solid MIG wire,with a gas shield, that would be preferable to flux-core wire.
I'm not a welder but I always admire a fine weld.
I'm very glad!
My “ Handmade in USA” Cannondale mountain bike has beautiful welds.
Cannondale is well known as an excellent brand!
How much does a made in USA frame cost?
@@RonCovell Actually, when they were made in the US they were well known for snapping at the welds, earning them the name "crack n fail". Mostly due to bad design, though others blame grinding their welds smooth. New ones (made in taiwan) are done in a more conventional process - more boring to be sure, but less failure prone. None of this has to do with country of origin, just that cannondale was not an excellent brand for quality back in those days.
Thanks for the excellent background information on Cannondale!
Otherwise known as Crackandfail
In some case, why my friend has a black colour around welding area? Whats going wrong, and may u give us advise
A coating of black 'soot' around the weld area is a sign of a contaminated electrode, or insufficient shielding gas. You can see more on this here: ua-cam.com/video/Clg6e_c7Ua4/v-deo.html
Awesome video!
Thank you!
Good jigs seem to be absolutely essential for welding geometrically-critical things.
Yes, stuff moves when it's tack welded, and moves more when it's finish welded, so it's hard to get precision without rigid fixturing.
Normally they cut the copes in a milling machine, so that they are pretty perfect when assembled. Then they fixture it. Then they weld all the tubes except the seat stays, then they take it out, cold set any problems, then they weld the seat stays. That is on conventional frames. This is pretty unconventional. Of course a lot of the frames sold are not straight.
καταπληκτικό!!!
@krrrruptidsoless - Watch it again. He says they jump around to minimize distortion but it always distorts so they heat it up in the oven and move it around.
avro549B yes for most welding applications the hardest part about smaller items that aren't secured is distortion. Pipelines and such it isn't as much of an issue
gorgeous work!
Yes, Mike is an exceptional welder!
Aluminum has been used for bicycle frames for over 20 years now. I'd say it has stood the test of time fairly well.
great video! I would love a video showing the heat treat process as well
Heat treating bicycle frames is not a trivial process. Here's the short version:
ua-cam.com/video/bV4bwABlPVw/v-deo.html
Here's a more in-depth description of the process, although the video is dated, the information is still accurate.
ua-cam.com/video/yB7YoTEUbPw/v-deo.html
@@RonCovell thanks Ron! that second video is a great. I have found that those old archived videos can be a very useful resource
Beautiful
Thank you
in regards to distortion once you've tacked one side do you tack the other as well might help to have a mirror image jig and help it with a rubber mallet just to get things right might not solve the problem but might lessen the affects of the heat ?
When tacking tubing, it is good practice to alternate the locations of the tacks. It takes a minimum of 3 tack welds to really hold a joint rigidly, and more tacks is better.
Ever notice that most, not all, successful operations are neat and organized?? Our Porsche Race shop was ridiculously clean most of the time...but that's how we became a championship team.
Nice job!! Made in America!!
Yes, I like to see clean and organized working spaces. (Although what's behind my camera is not as clean as what's in front)!
1:19 How was the monocoque built? I already know how two tubes are welded together, but I'd love to know how that monocoque is made.
The monocoque in this video was probably hydroformed. You can see a more low-tech way of making a bicycle monocoque here: ua-cam.com/video/d76PFjH1SJA/v-deo.html
It looks like it's two separate halves that were stamped then welded together probably in China.
There are companies that do hydroforming all over the world, including in the United States. That frame and the monocoque halves were definitely welded in California - I was there!
The use here of the term 'monocoque' is not really correct. A monocoque is a structure where the outer surface forms the structure - the typical modern car body is sort of a monocoque, but not a pure one. This bicycle frame is part tubular, part formed sheet metal. Monocoque it is not
I agree that the entire frame is not a monocoque design, but I believe the formed upper section can be fairly called a monocoque structure.
Nice bicycle frame. I really like it.
Thanks for watching, and commenting!
Super work
I'm so glad you liked it!
Wow! Amazing
Thank you! 😊
asking questions is the best way to make discovers
Yes, that's absolutely true!
muy bueno !!!!
Beautiful welds!
Mike Woods is an exceptional welder!
ua-cam.com/users/aaronmlarsenvideos
Nice work
Thanks!
Hey Ron. Great Video. These Welds are Incredible. Would this work for small steel tubing like Mini Bike Frames, etc ?
Thank You.
Yes, steel tubing can be TIG welded together very easily. You can see some larger steel tubing being welded here: ua-cam.com/video/aSAwKLiBLMU/v-deo.html
Yes you can as it is the same principle just different material
Whats the difference in thickness between the tubing used for motorcycle frames and that of bicycle frames? Anyone know?
I would like to see the alignment process. And see how much the tempering re-distorts it. Or see how they combat the heat treatment from re-distorting it.
There are several UA-cam videos that touch on these subjects.
Good job welding!
Glad you liked it!
Its great and thank you for the detailed video,We are new to the manufacturing of Aluminium Cycle Frames.Could you please let us know whats the table name and its fixtures which you used to hold the frame rigidly
That type of table is often called a 'fixturing table' or sometimes simply a 'welding table', and there are many manufacturers worldwide. Here's one example to get you started:
www.trick-tools.com/StrongHand-Rhino-Cart-Mobile-Fixturing-Station-TDQ54830-K1-10380
@@RonCovell Thank ron :)
I need a project done replacing the drop tube for the seat post on my 83 PK ripper looptail it was broke at top where clamp goes on I got a temporary split in the center tube and a clamp on it leveled n that so I can still put a seat post on but I need it restored back to original any tips it's rare to find another one where I'm at
It should be possible to remove and replace the damaged tubing.
Awesome it's aluminum and should I remove the post entirely and get an exact tube size and everything to replace it and should I grind the welds where it was on top tube and bottom crank tube thank you for your time and advice I have an 95 elf team issue pro since I was young going to restore all the way 🙂
What was the purpose of the keyway broaching tools on the table when you were welding? Great welding by the way,what set up and settings were you using?
There were a lot of fixturing components made by the Bluco company which were used to precisely locate the bicycle frame elements on the layout table.
i there any way to contact Mike Woods for a project? Thanks
Mike Woods worked for Santa Cruz Bicycles when I made this video, which was quite a few years ago. You might contact them to see if they know how to reach Mike.
Hi Ron was wondering if you might know the best way to clean aluminum? Thanks
It depends on what's on the surface. I use acetone for oil or grease. I like the Scotch-Brite Strip & Clean discs for light or medium corrosion. Paint is best removed with a specialized striper. For deep corrosion or pits, I use whatever grit of abrasive disc is required to efficiently remove the surface crud.
man what skill! this type of weld is what I always look for on bike frames. In my eyes it's always the best
Glad you like it!
beautiful fitment
Thank you!
Thanks for the video. I was wondering what kind of testing is done after welding to ensure there are no cracks in the welds or the aluminum tubing.
Heat treatment
One method used by DIY motorcycle racers/ fabrication, is weld a small 1/4” coupling in an area on the frame that a pressure gauge is mounted.
There is a small diameter hole in all frame tubes that allow air pressure too travel a complete path to the gauge. Pressurize the frame at low psi, and spray soapy water on all welded joints.
Nice work...can you give me little info on base material and filler material of TIG welding... Thanks......
I only spent one day at Santa Cruz Bicycles, and I didn't ask what alloy of aluminum they used. It may be 6061, but I'm not sure. The filler rod is most likely 5356.
very nice my brother perfect
Thank you!
Quality to Price ration is Outstanding
Thanks!
Buenosdias, y gracias por sus videos
Me alegra que te gusten!
Thank you
You're welcome!
Hi Ron, Is this from one of your DVDs? Your videos are great and have been incredibly helpful! Thank you for the making them. Best, Tyler
Yes, this is an excerpt from my 'Advanced TIG Welding' DVD. I'm glad you have enjoyed my programs.
Top notch.
Glad you liked it!
Support sir
Nice job
God 🙏 bless you Sir
From phillipines
Thanks!
Excellent job ! Congratulations !
Thank you for watching, and commenting!
Thank you 🌹👍
I am so glad you have discovered my videos, and enjoy them!
Wow, very great MTB-Frame. I like so much aluminum frame. I don't are interested to carbon fiber frame. I thinking with the 6061-aluminum flying, we have one absolute stability, more as carbon.
I have in last time, so many bike, GT, or Cannondale, all I have buy with aluminum. I hope so much, in the next time more from this frame set see and possibility to buy one. Thanks for this great video recension. Greetings from Switzerland..
I'm very glad you liked the video! Perhaps you would like this series I made on building an aluminum bicycle frame:
ua-cam.com/video/d76PFjH1SJA/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/R6-x6M2wj1A/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/wcTkQ_Y_dBA/v-deo.html
what type of welding machine did you use? Im used to seeing those types with sparks flying
TIG welding was used on this bicycle frame. MIG and stick welding both are accompanied by a shower of sparks, but sparks of any kind are quite rare with TIG welding, and usually only happen if there are impurities on or in the metal.
which TIG welder model was used to weld this aluminium frame ?
The particular machine that Mike Woods used has slipped from my memory, but any good TIG machine can do work of that caliber.
Keep 'em coming ;)
I certainly will! If you check out my channel, you will see many more videos on welding, and metal fabrication.
Bella mujer muy huapa beatifill
I love the look of Aluminium welds and the look of bare aluminium, it used to seem like the perfect metal to me, but didn't know then how much it can be prone to salt attack, discovered that from riding motorbike in winter and dishwashing aluminium food trays...
Well, one option is to anodize the aluminum. Anodizing is quite good at protecting aluminum from salt water and many acids. The anodizing can be clear, so it looks a lot like bare aluminum, or it can be colored, which can offer an interesting 'candy' like finish. Many aluminum bicycle parts are anodized - like crank arms and stems.
@@RonCovell ah okay yeah, I've seen anodized aluminium parts before but don't know the process of getting I supposed probably through some sort of electrolysis in a solution bath, I'll have to look it, thanks! 👍
are you using straight argon ?
thanks for the info
Yes, I believe Mike was using straight argon.
The regularity of those welds, awesome!
Yes, Mike Wood is an exceptional welder!
very interesting!!
Hey - you're the first one to comment! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I promise there will be more videos to come.
i really like how he has the template and the fixture to be able to get the same result over and over again.i watched more videos from you and i had a lot to learn from you.thank you for making this awesome videos!
3Mever hi
What rods are you using and will this be the same as a specialized frame
This is 5356. I don't know what alloy Specialized uses.
Soldadura de moneda, acabo de comprar un cuadro Scott Scale 970 2018, y lo quiero repintar, sera buena idea pulir las costuras de la soldadura? Para que quede mas estético.
Podría tener más sentido utilizar masilla de plástico para carrocería para suavizar las uniones, en lugar de quitar el material de soldadura.
thank you now i know how to weld
Hey, that was easy!
Best video ever😏
I'm so glad you liked it - there will be more to come1
Hello Ron. Nice weldings you do.
I weld stick not professionally, and did some tig on steel bicycle frames. Never aluminum.
What would it be the most important feature a decent welder must have in order to make such uniform threads ?
Many thanks. José
Jose - it's more about the person welding, rather than the welding machine. If I had to pick a single most important thing, it would probably be steady hands.
+Ron Covell
Yes, I agree ! steady hands.
After a good amount og grinding by hand, my hands and arms are shaky, and welding is harder.
Thanks.
I sometimes use blocks of wood to support my arms or wrists. Try it - it can really help!
Ron which country you are and
which tig welder you using and
How many dollar what amp ac/dc please tell me the price. how I can buy thank you regard
I live in the USA. I have several TIG welders. The least-expensive welder in my shop that would be good for bicycle frames is the Miller Diversion 180. It is a 180 amp machine, which is more than enough power for this application. They are currently selling for around $2200 here.
He is a very skilled welder, not anyone can weld aluminum like that.
Yes - Mike Woods is an excellent welder, indeed!
Gonne order a puls tig machine right now...very motivating
ez lol - There are many advantages for using pulsing when TIG welding!
@@RonCovell thank you for the great info...
Wow! That's a cute artisanal way to do things, but honestly the hyper industrialized Chinese way is unbeatable in every aspect.
Yes, there is no way to custom-build a bike and be competitive with mass produced frames. Nevertheless, this is the process used to make a prototype frame like this one, or a custom design to meet the needs of a particular customer.
I have a cinelli vigorelli.with a dent / bend in the downtube ..when it was shipped..can it be fixed or replaced?
Will - I believe your frame is steel, which is TIG welded together. While this is a tricky repair, which should only be attempted by a qualified bicycle frame builder with a precision fixture - the downtube can be replaced. Of course the frame would need to be repainted afterward, so the cost of a proper repair could approach the cost of buying a new frame!
@@RonCovell I think you're right .Columbus thron oversized
It's a vigorelli pista frame
I.built it with proper campy track parts
Sold it on ebay
It got bangeg up while in transit..I shipped it with 6 inch foam core all around
Really ticked off at ebay
Global partner
Some co in Canada
So if I get the bike back
Any suggestions on who can fix it and get I back tp it's original
It's a collectible bcofvthe age and it's special Ed color for the giro
I just found this, which could possibly be a solution:
ua-cam.com/video/JTDeXG0kweA/v-deo.html
There are a LOT of qualified bicycle frame builders around. One who is well known on UA-cam is Paul Brody, who is in Vancouver BC:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodie_Bicycles
Beautiful welding. How do you stop the distortion happening to the round steering post
The more curvature a part has, the less distortion you'll see. Everything on this frame is pretty curvy.
@@RonCovell Thankyou for your reply Ron
First class skill.
Thank you for the nice comment, Tim!
Not at all. High skill should be commended. Such skill is getting rare in the US, I believe.
Ur welding seams are looking good
Thank you!
Hey man, Good video, l have question about, how l need to weld aluminium, you are using mig welder machine, but what Kinde of gas you need, and what metal of comtibution. Because l need weld motorcicle frame. Tks.
The welding used in this video is TIG welding. MIG welding can be used for aluminum, also, and straight Argon gas is used for both applications. The base metal is 6061, and the filler metal is 5356.
Ron Covell
thanks again, and greetings from torreon coahuila, mexico.
I have one V10. Nice video
Cool, thanks!
Nice work! Great beads. Keep up the great work
Thank you. I expect to be uploading another aluminum bicycle video in a week or so.
Can't wait!
Wow what kind of welding rod that? Reply ASAP pls...
I'm not the one who did the welding on this video, but I believe Mike was using 3/32" 5356 rod.
He sure used a low frequency for that; sounded like 40 Hz. Does that give a wider bead?
I'm nearly certain it was 60 Hz. Sometimes the sound captured by the mic on the camera can be deceptive.
I wanna know what brand of bikes this guy working for or brands that making frames like this one
I have lost track of Mike Woods. He worked for Santa Cruz bicycles when I shot this video, but he had his own frame-building business on the side.
Classic example of HOW TO DO AN INTERVIEW WITH A SCRIPT MEMORIZED AND REHEARSED A LOT...✌🏻️😅🤘🏻