Dear All, If you liked this episode do please subscribe to the channel & check out our related episodes on Islam. 👇 📚 Book: Allah - God In The Qur'an ✍️ Author: Gabriel Said Reynolds 🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/-N2ROzB9ZPE/v-deo.htmlsi=m4Tc_fZxQqz8Wxrz 📚 Book: The Qur'an And The Aramaic Gospel Traditions ✍️ Author: Emran El-Badawi 🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/pe6gQxaE18k/v-deo.htmlsi=SdncVcE_qUPnbpem 📚 Book: The Humanity Of Muhammad ✍️ Author: Craig Considine 🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/GKUSf1eEnOg/v-deo.htmlsi=c_6QF-wOHlTMIdUR 📚 Book: American Muslim Agenda ✍️ Author: Mike Ghouse 🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/on5WWW8DMUU/v-deo.htmlsi=yr0tPcMiUwh_r0Zc 📚 Book: Solomon And The Ant ✍️ Author: David Penchansky 🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/xp7MrPncXdU/v-deo.htmlsi=3lQ2nUDddY3allFo 📘 Avid Reader: Javad T. Hashmi 🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/xeWx7M_HJY4/v-deo.htmlsi=Escydzz0dErlnzXb 📚 Book: The Emergence Of Islam ✍️ Author: Gabriel Said Reynolds 🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/Rg61JQgusys/v-deo.htmlsi=TStyRmOxuNPHxOiI Regards, Omar
Great video and I am a huge fan of Dr Hashmi. A point I'd make is, with the idea of theologising a narrative is that there seems to be an underlying assumption of the traditional reading of the Quran as being correct but I feel there there's a lot of nuance being missed and some references which seem to be glossed over in favour of the overall theme being theological. So for example, the story of Jesus's birth and Mary. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but the theologising narrative approach would be to take the simple reading and see it as addressing particular points raised at the time or in the past such as the Talmudic references. While I do not disagree that is what is happening, I think within the story Joseph's marriage to Mary is alluded to through very specific references to casting lots to see who would marry Mary (Quran 3:44) which parallels lots being cast in Protoevangelium Jacobi to see who would marry Mary. There are many other references such as in both narratives Mary's mother dedicating what is in her womb to God and so on. So if the Qur'an is read with this in mind, I feel like it would maybe alter the reading since someone familiar with proto evangellium will see that the Quran is hinting towards this but has removed all mention of Joseph. I think that could have a different theological implication. Perhaps it's a case of two birds with one stones since it's exhonerating Mary from the Jews by saying she's married and hinting at marriage which refutes Christians. I think this may seem strange to us but if there was a Christian audience, I feel they would recognise Mary narrative as beings influenced by it heavily and there are very specific references such as lots being cast, in fact, the traditional narrative of it being Zechariah makes less sense since he already was in charge of her. So what I would say is, the idea of theologising narrative is correct but the Quran may actually be theologising a different narrative
Thank you! Do please be sure to check out some of our other videos with Historical Critical Islamic Scholars. 📚 Book: "Allah: God In The Qur'an" ✍️ Author: Gabriel Said Reynolds ▶️ Episode 4: ua-cam.com/video/-N2ROzB9ZPE/v-deo.html 📚 Book: "The Qur'an And The Aramaic Gospel Traditions" ✍️ Author: Emran El-Badawi ▶️ Episode 11: ua-cam.com/video/pe6gQxaE18k/v-deo.html 📚 Book: "Solomon And The Ant" ✍️ Author: David Penchansky ▶️ Episode 18: ua-cam.com/video/xp7MrPncXdU/v-deo.html -Omar
Great, compelling conversation, fascinating all the way throughout. There is a leap from Quran-centric focus and ‘allegorizing’ in relation to miracles and other non-natural things recounted in the Quran. The revelations were uttered to an audience of avid listeners and has to be understood as such. It limits the twisted contortions in apologetic arguments. And isn’t the HCM axiomatically opposed to the assumption of supernatural entities and causes?
Hi, Thank you so much for this feedback. 🙏 You are correct that HCM does not allow for miracles; they get bracketed off and are stated to be "mythical". So for example, it is not "The Resurrection of Jesus" that gave birth to Christianity, but rather "The BELIEF in the Resurrection of Jesus" that gave birth to Christianity. And as Dr. Hashmi explained during the episode, scholars don't use the word 'mythical' to mean anything negative; it's just a descriptor. You are also correct that the Qur'an was uttered to an audience that was very familiar with the backstories of all the events and characters, which shows that the milieu was heavily Judaized / Christianized. You may enjoy our other videos that relate to HCM / Islamic History. Feel free to check them out.👇 📚 Book: "Allah: God In The Qur'an" ✍️ Author: Gabriel Said Reynolds Episode 4: ua-cam.com/video/-N2ROzB9ZPE/v-deo.htmlsi=8VDX_82JyPIcZbik 📚 Book: "The Qur'an And The Aramaic Gospel Traditions" ✍️ Author: Emran El-Badawi Episode 11: ua-cam.com/video/pe6gQxaE18k/v-deo.htmlsi=TLWekyYX_EF6s0OR 📚 Book: "Solomon And The Ant" ✍️ Author: David Penchansky Episode 18: ua-cam.com/video/xp7MrPncXdU/v-deo.htmlsi=BCkHUwa8fH1P8Vwe Regards, Omar
Dear All,
If you liked this episode do please subscribe to the channel & check out our related episodes on Islam. 👇
📚 Book: Allah - God In The Qur'an
✍️ Author: Gabriel Said Reynolds
🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/-N2ROzB9ZPE/v-deo.htmlsi=m4Tc_fZxQqz8Wxrz
📚 Book: The Qur'an And The Aramaic Gospel Traditions
✍️ Author: Emran El-Badawi
🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/pe6gQxaE18k/v-deo.htmlsi=SdncVcE_qUPnbpem
📚 Book: The Humanity Of Muhammad
✍️ Author: Craig Considine
🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/GKUSf1eEnOg/v-deo.htmlsi=c_6QF-wOHlTMIdUR
📚 Book: American Muslim Agenda
✍️ Author: Mike Ghouse
🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/on5WWW8DMUU/v-deo.htmlsi=yr0tPcMiUwh_r0Zc
📚 Book: Solomon And The Ant
✍️ Author: David Penchansky
🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/xp7MrPncXdU/v-deo.htmlsi=3lQ2nUDddY3allFo
📘 Avid Reader: Javad T. Hashmi
🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/xeWx7M_HJY4/v-deo.htmlsi=Escydzz0dErlnzXb
📚 Book: The Emergence Of Islam
✍️ Author: Gabriel Said Reynolds
🎧 Podcast: ua-cam.com/video/Rg61JQgusys/v-deo.htmlsi=TStyRmOxuNPHxOiI
Regards,
Omar
Thanks for this Interview session.
Thank you for watching 🙏
Great video and I am a huge fan of Dr Hashmi. A point I'd make is, with the idea of theologising a narrative is that there seems to be an underlying assumption of the traditional reading of the Quran as being correct but I feel there there's a lot of nuance being missed and some references which seem to be glossed over in favour of the overall theme being theological. So for example, the story of Jesus's birth and Mary.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong but the theologising narrative approach would be to take the simple reading and see it as addressing particular points raised at the time or in the past such as the Talmudic references. While I do not disagree that is what is happening, I think within the story Joseph's marriage to Mary is alluded to through very specific references to casting lots to see who would marry Mary (Quran 3:44) which parallels lots being cast in Protoevangelium Jacobi to see who would marry Mary. There are many other references such as in both narratives Mary's mother dedicating what is in her womb to God and so on.
So if the Qur'an is read with this in mind, I feel like it would maybe alter the reading since someone familiar with proto evangellium will see that the Quran is hinting towards this but has removed all mention of Joseph. I think that could have a different theological implication. Perhaps it's a case of two birds with one stones since it's exhonerating Mary from the Jews by saying she's married and hinting at marriage which refutes Christians. I think this may seem strange to us but if there was a Christian audience, I feel they would recognise Mary narrative as beings influenced by it heavily and there are very specific references such as lots being cast, in fact, the traditional narrative of it being Zechariah makes less sense since he already was in charge of her.
So what I would say is, the idea of theologising narrative is correct but the Quran may actually be theologising a different narrative
Thank you!
Do please be sure to check out some of our other videos with Historical Critical Islamic Scholars.
📚 Book: "Allah: God In The Qur'an"
✍️ Author: Gabriel Said Reynolds
▶️ Episode 4: ua-cam.com/video/-N2ROzB9ZPE/v-deo.html
📚 Book: "The Qur'an And The Aramaic Gospel Traditions"
✍️ Author: Emran El-Badawi
▶️ Episode 11: ua-cam.com/video/pe6gQxaE18k/v-deo.html
📚 Book: "Solomon And The Ant"
✍️ Author: David Penchansky
▶️ Episode 18: ua-cam.com/video/xp7MrPncXdU/v-deo.html
-Omar
Is he bringing out a book??
Hi, thank you for the question.
Dr. Hashmi is currently not working on a book as far as we can tell.
-Omar
@@bookcafepodcast hi, I heard that he was translating Muhammad kalafallahs work?
No clue. My guess is as good as yours. 🙂
Great, compelling conversation, fascinating all the way throughout. There is a leap from Quran-centric focus and ‘allegorizing’ in relation to miracles and other non-natural things recounted in the Quran. The revelations were uttered to an audience of avid listeners and has to be understood as such. It limits the twisted contortions in apologetic arguments. And isn’t the HCM axiomatically opposed to the assumption of supernatural entities and causes?
Hi,
Thank you so much for this feedback. 🙏
You are correct that HCM does not allow for miracles; they get bracketed off and are stated to be "mythical".
So for example, it is not "The Resurrection of Jesus" that gave birth to Christianity, but rather "The BELIEF in the Resurrection of Jesus" that gave birth to Christianity.
And as Dr. Hashmi explained during the episode, scholars don't use the word 'mythical' to mean anything negative; it's just a descriptor.
You are also correct that the Qur'an was uttered to an audience that was very familiar with the backstories of all the events and characters, which shows that the milieu was heavily Judaized / Christianized.
You may enjoy our other videos that relate to HCM / Islamic History. Feel free to check them out.👇
📚 Book: "Allah: God In The Qur'an"
✍️ Author: Gabriel Said Reynolds
Episode 4: ua-cam.com/video/-N2ROzB9ZPE/v-deo.htmlsi=8VDX_82JyPIcZbik
📚 Book: "The Qur'an And The Aramaic Gospel Traditions"
✍️ Author: Emran El-Badawi
Episode 11: ua-cam.com/video/pe6gQxaE18k/v-deo.htmlsi=TLWekyYX_EF6s0OR
📚 Book: "Solomon And The Ant"
✍️ Author: David Penchansky
Episode 18: ua-cam.com/video/xp7MrPncXdU/v-deo.htmlsi=BCkHUwa8fH1P8Vwe
Regards,
Omar
'promosm'