Nothing will ever vibe with me harder than old school Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh but nostalgia is a big part of that. I think despite how lonely they feel, digital card games are still fun and have a lot of potential because they can get more creative with card effects like you mentioned. Having that level of creativity in deck building is what I enjoy most about card games. My meme-ass Teemo decks in Legends of Runeterra simply can't exist physically because nobody is going to keep track of 100+ mushrooms randomly sprinkled into a deck.
5:33 That’s the best part of card games, I love to grumble about my hand sucking while I set up a combo, or just making jokes and having fun, commenting on art etc.
The most fun I've ever had with a card game was in person magic with friends, just trying to outplay eachother and read eachother. I think I've played like an hour tops of Magic Arena since Corona, it just doesn't feel the same.
I thought I could enjoy Magic without another person across from me and boy was I wrong. I need to be able to play with physical cards and a person across from me.
Magic is so whack once you get into the rares and mythic rares, the online versions of magic just put you to that level almost instantly and all the magic (not intended) of the game just disappears
For a digital card game to feel right graphics, effects and sound effects have to be on point to even compare to real card games. MTG Arena just feels incredibly dull and soulless.
Bruh, I say this as someone that plays both hearthstone and mtg, both online and in person, and I can say Counterspells in both games have made me punch walls both when online and in person xD
Every time I had a thought like "oh, I could add this to the conversation" it felt like you hit that point immediately afterward. Really great video, I enjoyed this a lot.
Listening to you rant about TCGs was very interesting, the sole reason I started playing fighting games is due to the fact I was seeking something that would replicate the feeling I would get playing mtg at my local game store. It's honestly surreal how much fighting games and TCGs share in how they play out with decision making, freedom of expression and rivalry. I used to spend hours trying to goldfish and fine tune my decks for tournaments, now I basically spend that time labbing out and it feels like nothing has changed.
Man I miss being able to play MTG in person. I live in the middle of fucking NOWHERE and the one game shop we have can't even rustle up more than 3-4 people for Friday Night Magic. It is nice that we have the online version to fall back on but I ended up selling my collection (it was worth a lot tbh and the money was nice to have) and I miss sitting down and cracking open my boxes and building decks to play with. Picking all the cards I need, sleeving em up, putting them in a deck box - shit just feels right. And then a new expansion comes out and you pick up a box or whatever and just spend a couple hours cracking packs and organizing all your new shit. Or when your buddy who plays comes over and yall just spend time looking thru each other's collection, making some trades or whatever. Maybe you take your binder full of rares and valuables to the card shop and trade with some randos. Digital can't replace that.
I have a bit of a different perspective. The impersonal nature of digital games is what enables me to play them. I don't really play CCGs anymore but when I did, I couldn't really do the in-person thing with something as competitive and inherently asymmetrical as CCGs. That's what board games are for, with friends I trust. I tried to get into constructed Magic once but was still just playing with strangers that I didn't really relate to and getting my ass kicked, only in this case I had to deal with them face-to-face instead of moving on to the next matchmade session. I get why in-person games are better for people that are into them, but as a not-so-competitive person in any game including fighting games, I'm glad we're able to play so readily online these days. I just haven't had too much luck with the local gaming scene here and feel too old to spend time trying to cultivate new friendships in those spheres. I don't really want to try unless there's a reasonable chance of building a relationship that's lasting and not built around a single game, cuz then I quit playing and just have nothing to say to that Magic/Yugioh/Street Fighter friend anymore.
Most fun of recent memory has been getting together with friends to play 4 player mtg commander. The whole social aspect that comes out of it being a 4 person game just makes it hit different than most other card game experiences I've had
1:47, there used to be specific distinctions between, “mono, poly, and continuous” artifacts but that was phased out, so the old versions neglect to mention the whole “as long as it’s untapped” clause. So the Winter Orb still technically functions the same. 🤓
"Creativity is bread through limitations"...Why do I get the strangest feeling I'm not just listening to a fgc content creator and more listening to a zen master of the fgc...Just calling it like I see it.
This also true in card games. That's why different card games have different formats and play styles. Mark Rosewater, the lead designer for Magic: The Gathering, has said in his 20 years 20 lessons talk that what anchors him is the saying "Restrictions breed creativity".
I experienced this first hand. There was a format in YGO I played where monster effects and the extra were so good that spell/trap was mostly just spot removal and consistency. So I had an idea what Spell/Trap backrow would be and trying to bait it out. So my play style being able to bait out generic removal with recurring threats on board is what I liked doing. Sadly my play style would get phased years later when the best decks had their own themed spell/trap setup and removal and my way of thinking had to adapt If I was to keep up.
Vanguard just released trial decks for the new overdress format and i had a blast hanging out with my friends yesterday at the card shop. physical cards games just hit different compared to digital card games.
The winter orb example is a bit weird because it originally only worked untapped, the rules were changed later to where artifacts would always worked regardless if they were tapped or not. When they reprinted it they changed the card to where it works like it originally did before the rules change. Like a lot of magic cards its got a story behind it.
Nothing has hit the same as Legend of the Five Rings for me. I started just like you're playing Digimon, just me and a friend over the Summer, and it was so fun playing figuring the game out on our own. Once we got in deep the game had four distinct victory conditions so learning how to play around all of them made deck building a ton of fun. I still lament its demise to this day.
I don't play anymore but I understand so well that feeling, always have my Yugioh deck in my backpack if another store is open. The digimon TCG make me interest again but all the store in my town disappear thank to coronavirus.
Physical card games have always been part of my life and for me a big part of it that I enjoy is seeing the local community and I think there's almost this wrestling-like element where personalities come through both in and outside of gameplay. Some of my favorite moments playing at locals is the popoffs and reactions in the room when I'm paired against someone where there's some beef/rivalry (could be friendly rivalry or genuine dislike) and I think that really doesn't happen in a digital card game or even large tournament environment where you don't really interact with your opponent on much more than a one-time basis There's something personal that goes into building your own deck or even deciding which deck to play intertwined with interpersonal relationships between players and getting utterly demolished by those players that makes the salt magical sometimes
-Makes good points about in person social interactions and how it's different from its digital counterpart -Me still salty AF after spending 120 USD for three mobilize spell cards only for that shit to get completely banned a couple weeks later
Yugioh is just terribly designed. 99.5% of cards are literal garbage. The 0.5% are stupidly powerful and get so expensive until the point they get banned. The designers have no clue what they are doing.
@@CrowsofAcheron Actually they know EXACTLY what they're doing; terrible card design and taking advantage of the players are features in yugioh, not bugs
@@enigmaticheart666 When designers have to ban cards, that's an objectively bad thing, for the players and the business. It means people will be less likely to invest because they can't trust the value of cards. And the players are stuck with a restricted game. But people keep inexplicably playing the game, simply because it's based on an anime. Honestly, the player base and the designers deserve each other.
Definitely felt this, I originally loved dual links cuz of its accessibility but without the personal interactions, the gameplay started to get stale and feel like a grind till I eventually dropped it
Been waiting for you to drop this one and it’s an absolute banger as expected 🙏 Being from a TCG background basically all my life and only getting into fighting games a couple years ago, I was honestly surprised by all the parallels between the two: from reads to physical behavior when you’re sitting in front of (or next to) each other, it’s genuinely mad fascinating - the netplay example honestly put it best. I remember when Hearthstone first came out and all the other digital CCGs followed, there was this wave of people going “analog card games are dead, go play Hearthstone”, but especially this last year showed just how irreplaceable that social touch really is. Thanks again for the dope vid Obama, looking forward to whatever madness you and East are cooking up next
This brings me back when Yu-gi-oh was really popular during elementary school. We'd all watch the show a little, but the main thing was building your own deck and competing among ourselves. I don't really have any interest in cards nowadays, but this video reminded me of simpler times.
LMAO reminds me of card games in general early on. The mechanics seem simpler enough that invite a little bit of creativity despite no real mechanical power creep pushing stuff beyond the boundaries. At the same the power crept stuff also can invite creativity depending on what is on top and allow for some niche cards to show up just for mirror match aspects alone. Which led to overlooked cards in YGO becoming staples. For awhile Fiendish chain was a secret rare from Absolute Powerforce that was just a shiny dollar card before it exploded as a staple. Same with nonsense floodgates like Vanitys Emptiness being a dime rare from Starstrike Blast.
Before YGOPRO, Dueling Network and Duel Links I primarily played offline with Yu-Gi-Oh since the beginning. Before fighting games I played Yu-Gi-Oh almost all the time. I started to play competitively a little late however, when Tachyon Galaxy rolled around and I built Spellbooks at the time. That was when I realized the importance of really being able to tell opponents actions through body language. Though to be fair, YGO back then wasn't all negation like it is now. I think what ultimately led me to play fighting games more was when I got bodied by Rare hunters when I went to a YCS Regional with Nekroz, which at the time was a 1000 dollar deck. I spent a lot of time and money making that deck only to win my first game with them and they have them stolen from me in the same sitting. I think it was because of that terrible loss that I stopped playing offline completely with YGO and moved on to fighting games as the expense was less for the same kind of feeling. The only risk to be had was if you were at a major or a local and if you were money matching. I did return recently to duel links again and to get to the higher echelon of play, it definitely requires grinding or money to be spent, but its not nearly as much as playing physically with how Power Creep YGO had become. I do like this discussion on card games and I do think they have a lot of parallel with fighters (with less of the stress imo).
I was listening to this video during work and immediately recognized the Yu-Gi-Oh! Duelist of the Roses OST in the background. As usual, a great video and choice of music.
I just love physical card games as they allow for direct interaction with your opponent where i can talk to them and stuff unlike when I play online it almost feels as if im playing against ai for games such as duel links and mtg arena
Man who knew the side videos I'd watch then of yugitubers I liked then would find its way in an MajinObama video. But yeah it is those same videos that showed me another world of that interpersonal relationships people have who play card games on a local level. Even comes out with some yugioh match vids I enjoyed watching. Good looks O'Boomer and I enjoy the Digimon content with East. Shout outs to DifferentFight as well doing it for the CFV crowd which is another game I went deep into ages ago and I feel behaves close to the pacing and interaction of FGs (for the most part).
Even though I played Magic way before I discovered Pokémon TCG, the latter hit the hardest for me. The reason being how popular it was in my city. And thanks to that, I met a ton of people while playing at events, local competitions and the university, and also discussing the game's meta at pubs with some friends.
That’s the ultimate caveat at the end of the day. Physical TCG’s are great... provided you can afford it, have somewhere to go and play it and have people that you fuck with involved in it. If those stars align for you it’s the business for sure. Can’t say I’ve been that lucky though unfortunately. Normally at least one or two of the above has been missing. Nice vid though Obama, got me nostalgic for something that I’ve barely partaken in.
The best thing about Digital CCG are the matchmaking convenience, a different testing ground, and at some games the "autoplay" function. When the game can automate/keep track complex rulings/interaction is really a convenient thing. But I gotta agree, the social interaction in some card games offers an added depth of gameplay and fun in a round. For me there are CCGs/TCGs that I would like to play digitally and would like to play in person.
I was playing Cardfight Vanguard before, but they came out with a digital version which I play now after I quit playing the physical game. I gotta say the way of shuffling and the general motion of moving cards across the board gives out a special feeling. You can also factor in player interaction like asking the opponent's hand size, checking their drop zones, etc. When I quit playing card games I went back to playing fighting games where I discovered Tekken 7. I used to be a big Capcom kid and haven't played competitive Tekken before and it took me a long time to adjust to the system mechanics (you gotta factor in the veteran mechanics like chicken and wake up. Note: having a friend or a local that knows the game helps). I stopped going to arcades before due to my locals having a few marvel/street fighter players (they are either old and don't have that much time to play the games or they switched to a different game). Those where the times that I discovered different games like anime fighters and card games which filled the void of wanting to play 1-on-1 games.
Growing up as a kid, Yugioh was the card game me and all my friends and classmates obsessed with the most. I tried Duel Links with university friends once it was released, but the digital aspect took away a lot of the excitement the physical version had and felt more like a grind than anything before. Something about owning an uncommon or rare physical card is far more satisfying than a digital version for some odd reason. I feel the same way with basketball cards and their digital counterpart too lol
The feeling of just sitting around in the same space playing with friends and family is definitely something that’s hard to recreate with digital card games. My ex and her brothers got me into Yu-Gi-Oh, and I have some really fond memories of sitting around their kitchen table just talking and taking turns playing against each other; and I’ve yet to play a digital card game that replicate the fun of doing 2v2 battles. All that said, I’m a lazy player who hate math, so all the automation that that comes with digital card games is a big plus for me lol. I just smash card into card and game do math. And the card generation, randomization and other unique elements that can only happen in digital games like Hearthstone is really cool to me. I guess the ideal thing for me would be an IRL card game that had NFC chips in the cards that helped apply effects and keep score automatically (while still having the cards be affordable). Maybe one day the tech will be cheap enough for it to be practical.
now i see why ppl like obama, he's a master in getting his opinions out in ways that doesn't offend ppl if he wants, but 99% of the time he chooses to GET THAT SHITTALKIN, and start the conversation where it matters. Great Teacher Obama, always there to teach the kids about the boomer ways
I feel as if the scrappy beginner feeling is unmatched in real life tcgs when you start learning with your friends and everyones gathering scrap and or a couple of good cards that they become known for in the close knit circle. But that ends as soon as we get competitive and build the peak stuff, the scrappy fun goes away and it turns into an actual competition. I feel like online tcgs skip the scrappy part hella fast and also dont enable close knit circles so they ultimately feel pretty empty.
Great video man. Card games have been my main squeeze for as long as I can remember, but it's been a long while since I've had a local community to play with. A big part of the appeal of TCGs, to me, is preparing your deck week-to-week to combat local characters at your FLGS. You want to play at a regional tournament, well you better be ready to counter the meta. You want to play at Hyperlynx down the block on Saturday, you better be ready to deal with Steve and his weird ass frog deck.
Here in Japan we've powered on ahead with our own locals for MTG, in light of official events being suspended again. Even with online avaliable we wanted to support our local store, and actually interacting with people is fun. That said, MTGO has been helpful with refining my gameplay, basically allowing me to lab decks before events.
Used to play alot of MTG in person at local LGS playing Modern and legacy(boomer format) and ended up doing a bunch of traveling for it. Now i can't even get myself to play Magic Arena but i ended up playing a bunch of different games trying to scratch the same itch. Hearthstone, Shadowverse, Pokemon TCG, Runeterra couldn't do it. Funny enough though I never played in FGC locals before but im enjoying fighting games more now that i have before. thanks for coming to my TED Talk
Magic the Gathering really got me for awhile, but swapped over to digital due to covid and longed for the nostalgia. It's not the same, as playing in person. Like you said the human element gets removed, and I agree 100%.
Just found this channel a few days ago and I'm really ecstatic to see an FG player be also so into card games. Looking forward to more TCG stuff together with the FGC stuff. Bless up.
The culture is similar. I remember rolling up to locals and even regional tourneys with the guys from college for Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic. You get to make friends, hang out, and show off your pride and joy deck (kinda like how your custom arcade stick is your own). Yeah it's just a meta deck or yeah that arcade stick has a lever and 8 buttons like any other stick but there's something uniquely satisfying about it. You can't do that in an all-online tournament and show off your account with... Your decklist.
I’ve always felt that playing card games online are missing that heart of playing in person. For me I find great enjoyment out of just handling the cards and shuffling the deck. Seeing how people bling out their deck with sleeves or special editions of cards or playing an all foil deck is always fun. The social interactions in person really can’t be replaced even if you have discord playing with friends.
When I hear you talk about "personal interaction", I wonder what you would think of Netrunner? Amazing physical game, with fan-supported digital implementation called Jinteki (Rock Paper Shotgun did a good feature on it). The complexity is pretty high, but the tension and psychology is immense. Be very happy to play you, if you want an intro. Even online, people tend to use cam/mic because you need that interaction, for reads, tells, misleading. It's model (original License has expired, but fan-supported now) was not Collectible, but "LCG" - everyone buys the same expansions, with the same things inside, and goes to town with what they can create with it. Two asymmetrical sides (Runners vs impersonal Corps), you learn to play and build decks for each. Totally different mindgame. Also beautifully diverse in its artwork - a high tech future with Africa, India, and East Asia centre stage - it's a corporate dystopia with elements of a bright future.
There's very much a give and take when it comes to differences between a digital card game and physical card game. I never played physical card games because it's too expensive and from a time commitment perspective I couldn't dedicate necessary time because I have other hobbies I care about more. However, I at least will try digital card games because generally speaking they have a dedicated way to on board new players. Also, there's a path for free to play players to acquire cards which lowers the barrier of entry. So would I prefer to play physical? Sure as ultimately these are meant to be social games like board games. However, the greatest mechanics and wonderful social interactions don't matter one bit if the investment is too high. Like I guess golf is fine but I'm not spending crazy amounts for a golf club membership merely for the privilege of entering the space, let alone the necessary gear to play.
One of the best memories I had was heading to a party in HS where I was quiet for the most part. After about half of the people trickled out and left, some ppl brought out their MTG decks and after watching them play a few rounds, I asked if they could teach me. I tried before but I had an Infect deck, which made it reeeally wonky to actually learn the rules of the game. I think I ended up staying there until 1 am getting destroyed but having a lot of fun.
I think just as a general rule things become more fun and memorable when they’re done in person with other real people. It’s just that human connection that makes it special.
As a life long fighting game player and yugioh competitor, I really understand where your coming from. I feel like my love from both is so tied together by that personal interaction that you get at tournaments with others. Thanks for this videos it was so sick 👍
As somebody who used to play MtG in person at the local game store: I'm not trying to be friends with the poorly bathed men who are 20 years older than me. I would rather have the separation that the internet gives me.
This video hits hard - every time my best mate showed up at my place, the first thing we'd do was always bust out the Vanguard decks and we'd just go 2-3 hours until we got bored... and then we fired up Melty/UNIST and went at it then for a few more hours, haha. Good video as always, keep up the good work man
From someone who was addicted to physical card games and then hearthstone having to drop both due to cost, legends of runeterra(leagues card game) was perfect since there is no way to pay for rng aka card packs, great vid btw
Originally when i lived in massachusetts, my school friend group played Yu-Gi-Oh!. When my family moved to connecticut, my new school friend group played magic. A similar thing took place between games as well; my massachusetts friends played league, and my connecticut friends played dota. Between the two card games (and between the two games), I actually enjoy magic and dota more I think. the thing i don't like about ygo is that it felt like every deck was (and had to be) a combo deck to some extent. my own deck i built to bring to the tournaments we entered had a one turn kill combo. while i think tempo is also important in magic, it is a bit more freeform in how you can plan out how you want your deck to win. this is kinda how i feel about league vs dota; in earlier seasons, there were some unorthodox ways you could play the different champs in league, but now each champion is rigid in that they can only really be played in one way. this is in contrast to dota, where each hero can be played in many different roles, and as a result, there is a greater emphasis on player expression.
I always loved the idea of TCG/CCG's when I was a kid, but the barrier to entry was simply too high. My first experience was, ofcourse, pokémon cards. We were kids so we had no clue what we were doing, never played the game propperly and were just collecting them. We'd figure out all kinds of weird games to win them off each-other, like both would throw a card along the street and the one who threw the farthest would get both cards, that kind of thing. I simply never bought a pack, just got handed some random caterpie by one of my classmates and worked my way up by literally betting cards on playing at marbling and other schoolyard games. I honestly regret not continuing to collect the cards, not for the value they have now but because I enjoyed it so much, but simply didn't have the money to spend on them. The other time I nearly stepped into a TCG was with Magic the Gathering. While we were kids playing around betting with pokémon cards, there was an older kid on the block who would see what we were doing and would show us a 'real' TCG and showed us his Magic cards and give some of the worthless cards away to us kids. As a kid big into fanatasy, reading and playing games I loved those cards. I would stay up at night and simply look at the art, read the flavor text and make up my own stories about them. I'd ask my mom to buy them for me but we had to go to a city nearby and buy them there and we couldn't really afford them, so I didn't get any in the end. Years later when I had the chance to get back into them I played WoW instead so that's where all my small job money went into. Nowadays though, I would love to collect them but seeing the cost of the physical cards and the scalpers driving up the prices everywhere I just can't bring myself to do it. Because of health reasons it's hard for me to travel and I live in a village in the middle of nowhere, away from the cities these play sessions would be held so that's a factor for me aswell. You might also call it the boomer in me, but the digital card games just don't feel real to me. It's so strange spending real money on digital cards you'll never hold. Anyway, that's a big wall of text from me, thanks for the video Obama. Pleasure as always.
I like how you mention that restrictions breed creativity at around 6:00 when talking about a card game because Mark Rosewater, the head designer of MtG has this as one of his most important lessons throughout his years working on the game. I love playing magic the gathering and even though I have taken really long breaks, I always come back because that gathering aspect is just so huge. The gamer is nowhere near perfect especially when you take into consideration that the game is almost 30 years old but it is so well made and again having the ability to sit down with your homies, crack open a few beers and just play some magic is something I find really special.
Make the content you're passionate about, King. Even your shitpost content is quality but this kind of levelled-out, discussion style content is another level. Happy for you to be able to do this dude.
It really is such a shame that out of all video game genres, card games feel the least personal online. No voice chat, no text chat for any major release, no rematch functions for almost any of them and very few players will ever accept a friend request to chat afterwards. All the positives can't stop me from burning out of each one I try within a few weeks of getting into it just because it feels so monotonous and lonely queueing up against opponents with zero personality due to the lack of systems in place to interact with one another.
Great topic, my friend and I were just discussing how much the digital interface changes card games yesterday. I think the barriers to entry for physical card games can get pretty high, depending on how much cards are, or how many people in your area are available to play. But in terms of giving the best card game experience, nothing beats an in-person match with someone you enjoy playing. Makes me wish there was something that had the best of both worlds, maybe a VR option?
I agree with you on all fronts here. I've played different card games off an on for years, but I always enjoyed sitting down and teaching someone to play or just having some games with friends. I played Magic the most, probably. We had a pretty sizable playgroup in college and I loved seeing our local meta evolve over time and learning what type of player each person was and how to best exploit their weaknesses. Recently I've poured a lot into Flesh and Blood and am busting my ass to get it off the ground in my area. It's a new game and a lot of stores aren't carrying it and one dumped all of their boxes super cheap because the owner didn't foresee a community developing around it. Fast forward to now where Wizards of the Coast is killing their competitive scene and basically abandoning LGS in favor of easy money from selling direct to Amazon and this store has people banging down its door asking about it. I'm putting together starter decks to teach people the game right now, actually. I have some friends bringing friends that are interested to the shop so hopefully things go well and they decide to pick it up.
Let me offer a different perspective. I love magic the gathering. The nearest cg store is about an hour away from my house. And I live in a pretty dangerous area. Coming back home at 1 am by bus? Always a big adventure. Another problem is the hygiene in these places. It smells a lot like Jyuna's anime suit, and this is rough. Another thing that always made me uncomfortable is asking, mid match, about cards that I don't know. Even worst for me because I have fish memory and sometimes I need to ask about it multiple times. That, with the fact you said yourself about money and MTG Arena saved my life. Never played so much in my life, and I spent like 5 dollars in this in 2 years of playing.
Funny enough that asking mid match about card info to me is a norm. Until I see a card interaction/combo play out often enough, I just keep it in the back of my mind while I do my own setup/combos with my deck. I've never had anyone get angry with me with that because part of the 'gentlemans agreement' that makes the card game matches legit is keeping the game state the way both parties agree to. The moment one person feels like they are getting cheesed because they can't process the card interactions fast enough makes me feel bad and dishonest.
@@t4d0W Nobody gets angry at me for doing this, but it sure does causes a little bit of a discomfort in both me, for asking, and the other player for having to have patience. Doing this with the timer of Arena and without the other guy seeing your face makes things much easier on my end.
There’s this card game I had no idea existed until a friend of mine brought it up and bought a few decks few years ago. The game is called Exceed and it’s a very cool game that is styled and played similarly to a fighting game. Each deck is prebuilt, but it’s a different character for each and they all have different play styles. One is more rush down and aggression while some are a bit more defensive and use meter more, some can zone etc. I honestly don’t think I could ever play that game digitally. As much as I would love to play it more, playing it online just would feel so weird and the magic would be gone. Making good reads in that game feels so tied to being able to be face to face with the person you’re playing against and I feel that’s such a core part of it and online play just couldn’t do that sort of thing.
I pretty much feel the same way in-regards to physical vs digital games. My biggest gripe against both (despite digital card games slightly more forgiving money grabs, emphasis on slightly) is the paywall - you build a deck, just to think it's fine, until your friend and/or random sweaty wallet player destroys you with some deck of cards filled with things you've never seen before, other than that one card you thought was trash, but they use like it's keeping the earth on axis. Then you open your wallet again to try and build that next best deck. Its a big reason I turned towards publishers like Plaid Hat Games and Wise Wizard Games for competitive card games that are good to go and essentially balanced straight from the box with expansion decks that aren't random - you know what you're buying. They tend to keep the random factor simply down to shuffles and dice rolls. That being said, if you are down for more card games in person, I recommend Summoner Wars Second Edition from Plaid Hat Games and Star Realms from Wise Wizard Games. Both are very fun, still give you a sense of deck-building if you get a few expansions, and don't feel like nearly the money pit of other games. Neither game require two people to buy into it, one person can, and two people can play against each other. Oh, and homemade dice towers are fun to make too if you get bored and want more fair rolls. XD
Something about topping a regional offline means more than online. The online events I’ve taken part in; in Pokemon, YGO and MTG I am constantly reminded of the “this would feel so much X offline” or what have you I do believe that runeterra has bloomed as a magnificent online game during lockdown and the feelings of offline interactivity is yearned for in the playing with the delays in play, roping etc. Ultimately, now in the UK we can have locals again. I have missed offline play and appreciate it more. It is really up to the online games to try to grab me back
Made alot of valid points about the common parallels between physical card games and fighting games offline. Spent a fair portion of time on both and never really connected those dots. Great vid.
I used to go to local tournaments and play Naruto tcg back when it was super popular in my hometown during my early intermediate to late highschool years. I think it was also my first tcg where I put a lot of effort and go to tournaments every Friday. I had other tcg in the past like Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, Magic and the old Digimon tcg but Naruto tcg felt the most fun to me. After like 6 years of me playing Naruto tcg with my friends at school and other people in tournaments, the game eventually lost it's popularity. Me and my friends started university at the time that the game was starting to lose popularity + economical issues at home made me pretty much retire from tcg in general. Ever since then I haven't come back to tcg related stuff. I also heard that the tournament place eventually closed too. I've tried to get hooked on online tcg like Magic and Yu-gi-oh but it doesn't feel the same to me. I still keep the Naruto cards with me, haven't sold them. I think they have a lot of sentimental value now, every time I look at them they just remind me of those good times. Lmao I've seen some of my friends recently hyped for the new Digimon and Dragon Ball Super physical tcg but my current economy issues are gatekeeping me from trying those out. lol
Man you´re into the new Digimon card game AND use Duelist of the Roses OST in this video. Good taste right there. Me and two good friends of mine got into the Digimon TCG as well and we´re having a blast with it. Certainly helps that all of us grew up with the franchise and the artwork quality is through the roof. Nothing beats your opponent´s face when you continously leave him at 1 memory every turn lol All the CCGs I ever got into I quit after a few months because I play card games for the social aspect first and foremost. Actually, it´s the same for fighting games. Playing randoms online gives me no satisfaction whatsoever. Playing locally is the way my man. Seems like I´m a boomer in that regard as well.
Great video. I started playing MTG 13 years ago but I stopped after Dragons of Tarkir. I played Hearthstone for a long time after and recently got back in to MTG through MTG:A because the convenience and affordability for high level play is really attractive for someone who works in the office 8 hours a day and just wants to go home and play a few games after work. Totally agree about the added social element of paper though and I still miss the feeling of offline paper play even though I can never see myself getting back in to it outside of a few local draft events here and there.
It’s really cool to see you talk about card games, I’ve been playing them my whole life before FGs and there’s always a new card game to get hooked on. I absolutely agree with preferring physical, being able to forge bonds with people through playing a game in person is huge. I was at a Flesh and Blood prerelease a couple weeks ago where my first match was playing against a newbie, it gave me a chance to teach him how his cards work and how he should play, saw him later that day in top 8 out of 32 total players. I felt like a proud parent, you’ll never get those moments in digital card games. But yeah to answer your question at the end, I was hooked on Yugioh for more than a decade before it became glorified solitaire. Played Mtg casually forever and still do, but with the start of corona I’ve played Flesh and Blood and Universus/UFS more than anything. They’re both games with a cool back and forth gameplay loop that reminds me a lot of fighting games, so I’d recommend checking either out if you get a chance.
Great video. Yugioh and Vanguard were both huge for me (both physically and digitally) and it was a ton of fun meeting new people and making friends in them. Playing digital card games like Hearthstone never compared and there was always something missing although I could never explain to anyone why I preferred physical games, where I had to spend a lot money, versus digital games where costs were much lower (although they can be grindy). Your video made me realize that you just never have those moments where the whole shop is watching you play and they see you make a big brain move or top deck that one card and everyone goes wild. The social interactions just make it so much more special.
I feel the same. I played yu gi oh for 6 years and only stoped because the game became too expensive and i did not adapted very well to the link mechanics, but when i tried online card games such as heartstone and magic it's just not the same. In the end I realized that What i really liked about the game was the ambient and the interaction with the other players.
Playing yugioh in person really got me out of my social egg shell, talking to my friends more and meeting new people (good and bad). That being said i haven't looked back at the game since pandemic and I don't miss buying cards getting banned from tournament play the next day lol. the feeling of having that disconnect from digital card games also resonate with me. i think i'll always prefer playing those games in person more than digitally. great vid bro
At the end of the day card games are majority parts social. It's about going to the place to see the gang and have an activity to organize around. You don't realize it until you remove it. Digital Card Games are empty because it's just rng on a screen, may as well play slots. Most of the strategy revolves around knowing every card or at least the meta. So spend x time, spend x $, win x % more. And when you win, you win nothing. It's fun to play with people because you have conversations and other things going on around it....
IE i don't care about that new junk combo deck that just got released, but meeting that dude at locals who's hyped about it and wants to talk about how he's building it makes me interested in it.... etc. etc. The group dynamic of card games, dnd, tabletops give them their staying power. Remove that, put it online, make it cost a trillion dollars when it's literally a proxy of a physical card game, meaning all cards are proxies, utterly valueless, no scarcity, no physical tangible product.... physical cards are at least backed by the cost of production... cardboard, ink.... shipping.... sure people work to code these online card games, but simply put, every online card game ever could have 100% free cards and still build a profitable business models through base purchase + subscription.... They don't want that, it's less money for them. That's all well and good, but they are missing the fundamental purpose of these games and the underlying reality of their value propositions. Slay the Spire or any other contained single player card game experience is superior to hearthstone, magic arena, master duel, because they have a full offering rather than a fractional offering of a game which is locked behind a paywall which even if passable for you, limits the active audience. Then, contend with bots in these free to play hybrid models, which overwhelm all games. Eventually they'll have to cave because there's far too much competition for digital games money spending. Are you running a game, a self-contained, fully complete, yet still profitable venture? orrrrrr are you running an endless cash grab; a scam. No card game is worth this much money, the faux markets of old cardboard pushed by nerd-ass gen x'ers and boomers are responsible for this nonsense. IDGAF if the card is 30 years old gem mint or 1 second old off the printing press, what does the card do?
one of my favourite part of digital card games is when you pull out the most random tech card that wins you the game and you just get to see your opponent's ''wtf'' face as they die to a card they didn't know existed
I love tabletop games. I agree with your points for the physical aspect even though I primarily only play digital now. Like you said the social aspect is great in person, and I even like doing things like keeping track of counters and what not (you’re in full control and customize everything how you want). The best part about digital is being able to play whenever you want, and you don’t have to organize your library of cards. However, the way you obtain cards made me take a break this set for Magic. I don’t want to do dailies/weeklies in every game I play (it seems every game has this model and I don’t like it). Just taking a little break from it. Not very many of my friends play Magic, but I was able to meet with a couple friends (one for the first time) for some friendly commander play. Even though we used precons we had some drinks and had some fun. Physical has always been more fun imo. I stopped playing Magic early in college, because my friend moved away. (Shards of alara/conflux/alara reborn were my first and last sets). Then, I got word of the new set, War of the Spark. I was so hyped for the set that I went to a pre-release at my LGS. There was over 200 people there and it was the first time I met up with people I didn’t know to play MTG. It was such a fun experience, and it brought me back. I think digital and physical are both good in their own way. I’m a boomer too. Lol I like interacting with stuff. Idk
I remember going to yugioh tournaments in Germany with friends and while the money was tight and our decks trash it was clear everyone of us would drop out very early, yet it still was fun. There is just something exciting to sitting down at a table with somebody and play the game. I think that digital games just make you focus too much on the game like you said and it starts to seem as if winning is the only thing you should be doing.
I've never gotten into card games, partly because of the barrier of entry offline and partly because they don't really appeal to me as 'video games' but I found your discussion on the subject interesting and the parallels to FG's offline/online discussion are definitely there. I do wonder if in the future we'll get some hybrid AR card game where you can blend both the low barrier of entry with digital cards and the offline personal person v person with a moving AR avatar and digital hologram decks and playfield. That's the kind of shit I'd be excited to see with that technology even if ultimately the game wouldn't be for me. Great vid!
Glad to see you’re really taking to heart making the content you want to make. Happy for you Obama.
thanks for being there for it and supportn
Popping those little card packs open was the original Gacha
og gacha
@@doogies the original Gacha is fishing. Fishing is gacha for dads/boomers
@@wukishark children are the real original gacha.
Gacha are actually a word referring to those things you put a coin into then crank the crank and get a little prizes like yo Kai watch crank a Kai
bruh that crack the whip card has more layers than f champs watermelon tweet wtf
the whole card and story is pretty funny
That blessed ass Duelist of the Roses Soundtrack
goat
Old school Yu-Gi-Oh games OST are pretty lit
This is literally the best J-jazz I've ever heard... brings back so many "memories" ..... get it? 😉
Nothing will ever vibe with me harder than old school Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh but nostalgia is a big part of that. I think despite how lonely they feel, digital card games are still fun and have a lot of potential because they can get more creative with card effects like you mentioned. Having that level of creativity in deck building is what I enjoy most about card games. My meme-ass Teemo decks in Legends of Runeterra simply can't exist physically because nobody is going to keep track of 100+ mushrooms randomly sprinkled into a deck.
On the flipside, in digital TCGs, people can't refuse to play me because I'm running Esper Control. **Maniacal Laughter**
One of the pros of digital card games, you don't have to smell the other players.
nice one
Lmao
Duliest of the Roses ost. Only real the ones know
Bruh I knew that music was familiar
fax
Yesss 🔥🔥
Was looking for this comment as soon as I recognized. 🤘
Real faker
5:33 That’s the best part of card games, I love to grumble about my hand sucking while I set up a combo, or just making jokes and having fun, commenting on art etc.
its part of the exp
The most fun I've ever had with a card game was in person magic with friends, just trying to outplay eachother and read eachother. I think I've played like an hour tops of Magic Arena since Corona, it just doesn't feel the same.
Absolutely. It's like in person v online fighters. You just don't get the same feeling when the other person isn't there.
for sure
I thought I could enjoy Magic without another person across from me and boy was I wrong. I need to be able to play with physical cards and a person across from me.
Magic is so whack once you get into the rares and mythic rares, the online versions of magic just put you to that level almost instantly and all the magic (not intended) of the game just disappears
For a digital card game to feel right graphics, effects and sound effects have to be on point to even compare to real card games. MTG Arena just feels incredibly dull and soulless.
Digital's fine and all but you're never gonna see someone get so pissed off from a Counterspell that they punch a wall.
Twitch Says you're wrong.
Bruh, I say this as someone that plays both hearthstone and mtg, both online and in person, and I can say Counterspells in both games have made me punch walls both when online and in person xD
Every time I had a thought like "oh, I could add this to the conversation" it felt like you hit that point immediately afterward. Really great video, I enjoyed this a lot.
appreciate ya
Listening to you rant about TCGs was very interesting, the sole reason I started playing fighting games is due to the fact I was seeking something that would replicate the feeling I would get playing mtg at my local game store. It's honestly surreal how much fighting games and TCGs share in how they play out with decision making, freedom of expression and rivalry. I used to spend hours trying to goldfish and fine tune my decks for tournaments, now I basically spend that time labbing out and it feels like nothing has changed.
glad it resonated. thanks for listening
Man I miss being able to play MTG in person. I live in the middle of fucking NOWHERE and the one game shop we have can't even rustle up more than 3-4 people for Friday Night Magic. It is nice that we have the online version to fall back on but I ended up selling my collection (it was worth a lot tbh and the money was nice to have) and I miss sitting down and cracking open my boxes and building decks to play with. Picking all the cards I need, sleeving em up, putting them in a deck box - shit just feels right.
And then a new expansion comes out and you pick up a box or whatever and just spend a couple hours cracking packs and organizing all your new shit. Or when your buddy who plays comes over and yall just spend time looking thru each other's collection, making some trades or whatever. Maybe you take your binder full of rares and valuables to the card shop and trade with some randos.
Digital can't replace that.
I have a bit of a different perspective.
The impersonal nature of digital games is what enables me to play them. I don't really play CCGs anymore but when I did, I couldn't really do the in-person thing with something as competitive and inherently asymmetrical as CCGs. That's what board games are for, with friends I trust. I tried to get into constructed Magic once but was still just playing with strangers that I didn't really relate to and getting my ass kicked, only in this case I had to deal with them face-to-face instead of moving on to the next matchmade session.
I get why in-person games are better for people that are into them, but as a not-so-competitive person in any game including fighting games, I'm glad we're able to play so readily online these days. I just haven't had too much luck with the local gaming scene here and feel too old to spend time trying to cultivate new friendships in those spheres. I don't really want to try unless there's a reasonable chance of building a relationship that's lasting and not built around a single game, cuz then I quit playing and just have nothing to say to that Magic/Yugioh/Street Fighter friend anymore.
This ain’t stopping me from getting exodia on the first turn.
Got that Duelist of the Roses track in the background. The Vs Lancastrians track was the most fire in that game.
custom duel and vs yorkists >>>>>>
"Battlin Boxers guy." Can i have some real support this decade?
No we need more HEROs and Blackwings
Nah hold dat shit.
played em back in highschool, and im still waiting for support pls
@@tootsie_ in fairness blackwings havent gotten anything over the last 2 years
Yo when’s volcanic support? Yosenju Kama 4 when?
Most fun of recent memory has been getting together with friends to play 4 player mtg commander. The whole social aspect that comes out of it being a 4 person game just makes it hit different than most other card game experiences I've had
nothing else like it
When that Touchstone Pictures logo came up when you was a kid you knew you was in for a wild ride
1:47, there used to be specific distinctions between, “mono, poly, and continuous” artifacts but that was phased out, so the old versions neglect to mention the whole “as long as it’s untapped” clause. So the Winter Orb still technically functions the same. 🤓
Obama doing his best Core-A Gaming impression with this one
nah core a the goat lmao
@@doogies great vid loving the content lately
"Creativity is bread through limitations"...Why do I get the strangest feeling I'm not just listening to a fgc content creator and more listening to a zen master of the fgc...Just calling it like I see it.
just an old saying that has some nugget of truth in it
This also true in card games. That's why different card games have different formats and play styles.
Mark Rosewater, the lead designer for Magic: The Gathering, has said in his 20 years 20 lessons talk that what anchors him is the saying "Restrictions breed creativity".
I experienced this first hand. There was a format in YGO I played where monster effects and the extra were so good that spell/trap was mostly just spot removal and consistency. So I had an idea what Spell/Trap backrow would be and trying to bait it out. So my play style being able to bait out generic removal with recurring threats on board is what I liked doing. Sadly my play style would get phased years later when the best decks had their own themed spell/trap setup and removal and my way of thinking had to adapt If I was to keep up.
Vanguard just released trial decks for the new overdress format and i had a blast hanging out with my friends yesterday at the card shop. physical cards games just hit different compared to digital card games.
fax
I love hearing people talk about stuff they like. I'm happy that you feel comfortable posting this kind of content.
thanks for comin through and supportin it
The winter orb example is a bit weird because it originally only worked untapped, the rules were changed later to where artifacts would always worked regardless if they were tapped or not. When they reprinted it they changed the card to where it works like it originally did before the rules change. Like a lot of magic cards its got a story behind it.
Nothing has hit the same as Legend of the Five Rings for me. I started just like you're playing Digimon, just me and a friend over the Summer, and it was so fun playing figuring the game out on our own. Once we got in deep the game had four distinct victory conditions so learning how to play around all of them made deck building a ton of fun. I still lament its demise to this day.
shit feels fun man.
immaculate intro
saiferoth is a fool
Great vid. The comment about battling faceless players in digital card games reminded me of how similar card games and fighting games can be.
YUP
i got an ad for magic the gathering💀💀💀💀
I don't play anymore but I understand so well that feeling, always have my Yugioh deck in my backpack if another store is open. The digimon TCG make me interest again but all the store in my town disappear thank to coronavirus.
that is sad as hell
Physical card games have always been part of my life and for me a big part of it that I enjoy is seeing the local community and I think there's almost this wrestling-like element where personalities come through both in and outside of gameplay. Some of my favorite moments playing at locals is the popoffs and reactions in the room when I'm paired against someone where there's some beef/rivalry (could be friendly rivalry or genuine dislike) and I think that really doesn't happen in a digital card game or even large tournament environment where you don't really interact with your opponent on much more than a one-time basis
There's something personal that goes into building your own deck or even deciding which deck to play intertwined with interpersonal relationships between players and getting utterly demolished by those players that makes the salt magical sometimes
-Makes good points about in person social interactions and how it's different from its digital counterpart
-Me still salty AF after spending 120 USD for three mobilize spell cards only for that shit to get completely banned a couple weeks later
Yugioh is just terribly designed. 99.5% of cards are literal garbage. The 0.5% are stupidly powerful and get so expensive until the point they get banned. The designers have no clue what they are doing.
@@CrowsofAcheron Actually they know EXACTLY what they're doing; terrible card design and taking advantage of the players are features in yugioh, not bugs
@@enigmaticheart666 When designers have to ban cards, that's an objectively bad thing, for the players and the business. It means people will be less likely to invest because they can't trust the value of cards. And the players are stuck with a restricted game.
But people keep inexplicably playing the game, simply because it's based on an anime. Honestly, the player base and the designers deserve each other.
Definitely felt this, I originally loved dual links cuz of its accessibility but without the personal interactions, the gameplay started to get stale and feel like a grind till I eventually dropped it
Been waiting for you to drop this one and it’s an absolute banger as expected 🙏
Being from a TCG background basically all my life and only getting into fighting games a couple years ago, I was honestly surprised by all the parallels between the two: from reads to physical behavior when you’re sitting in front of (or next to) each other, it’s genuinely mad fascinating - the netplay example honestly put it best.
I remember when Hearthstone first came out and all the other digital CCGs followed, there was this wave of people going “analog card games are dead, go play Hearthstone”, but especially this last year showed just how irreplaceable that social touch really is.
Thanks again for the dope vid Obama, looking forward to whatever madness you and East are cooking up next
This brings me back when Yu-gi-oh was really popular during elementary school. We'd all watch the show a little, but the main thing was building your own deck and competing among ourselves. I don't really have any interest in cards nowadays, but this video reminded me of simpler times.
LMAO reminds me of card games in general early on. The mechanics seem simpler enough that invite a little bit of creativity despite no real mechanical power creep pushing stuff beyond the boundaries. At the same the power crept stuff also can invite creativity depending on what is on top and allow for some niche cards to show up just for mirror match aspects alone. Which led to overlooked cards in YGO becoming staples. For awhile Fiendish chain was a secret rare from Absolute Powerforce that was just a shiny dollar card before it exploded as a staple. Same with nonsense floodgates like Vanitys Emptiness being a dime rare from Starstrike Blast.
really unique feeling
Before YGOPRO, Dueling Network and Duel Links I primarily played offline with Yu-Gi-Oh since the beginning. Before fighting games I played Yu-Gi-Oh almost all the time. I started to play competitively a little late however, when Tachyon Galaxy rolled around and I built Spellbooks at the time. That was when I realized the importance of really being able to tell opponents actions through body language. Though to be fair, YGO back then wasn't all negation like it is now. I think what ultimately led me to play fighting games more was when I got bodied by Rare hunters when I went to a YCS Regional with Nekroz, which at the time was a 1000 dollar deck. I spent a lot of time and money making that deck only to win my first game with them and they have them stolen from me in the same sitting. I think it was because of that terrible loss that I stopped playing offline completely with YGO and moved on to fighting games as the expense was less for the same kind of feeling. The only risk to be had was if you were at a major or a local and if you were money matching. I did return recently to duel links again and to get to the higher echelon of play, it definitely requires grinding or money to be spent, but its not nearly as much as playing physically with how Power Creep YGO had become. I do like this discussion on card games and I do think they have a lot of parallel with fighters (with less of the stress imo).
I was listening to this video during work and immediately recognized the Yu-Gi-Oh! Duelist of the Roses OST in the background. As usual, a great video and choice of music.
I just love physical card games as they allow for direct interaction with your opponent where i can talk to them and stuff unlike when I play online it almost feels as if im playing against ai for games such as duel links and mtg arena
The sound of opening a pack and the smell of brand new cards make me feel nostalgic.
Man who knew the side videos I'd watch then of yugitubers I liked then would find its way in an MajinObama video. But yeah it is those same videos that showed me another world of that interpersonal relationships people have who play card games on a local level. Even comes out with some yugioh match vids I enjoyed watching. Good looks O'Boomer and I enjoy the Digimon content with East. Shout outs to DifferentFight as well doing it for the CFV crowd which is another game I went deep into ages ago and I feel behaves close to the pacing and interaction of FGs (for the most part).
thanks for coming through and shouting out the homies
Holy shit that Duelist of the Roses ost got me good. Great choice, and cool video!
thanks for watchin
Even though I played Magic way before I discovered Pokémon TCG, the latter hit the hardest for me. The reason being how popular it was in my city. And thanks to that, I met a ton of people while playing at events, local competitions and the university, and also discussing the game's meta at pubs with some friends.
That’s the ultimate caveat at the end of the day. Physical TCG’s are great... provided you can afford it, have somewhere to go and play it and have people that you fuck with involved in it.
If those stars align for you it’s the business for sure. Can’t say I’ve been that lucky though unfortunately. Normally at least one or two of the above has been missing.
Nice vid though Obama, got me nostalgic for something that I’ve barely partaken in.
that blows. hope ur situation changes!
The best thing about Digital CCG are the matchmaking convenience, a different testing ground, and at some games the "autoplay" function. When the game can automate/keep track complex rulings/interaction is really a convenient thing. But I gotta agree, the social interaction in some card games offers an added depth of gameplay and fun in a round.
For me there are CCGs/TCGs that I would like to play digitally and would like to play in person.
I was playing Cardfight Vanguard before, but they came out with a digital version which I play now after I quit playing the physical game. I gotta say the way of shuffling and the general motion of moving cards across the board gives out a special feeling. You can also factor in player interaction like asking the opponent's hand size, checking their drop zones, etc.
When I quit playing card games I went back to playing fighting games where I discovered Tekken 7. I used to be a big Capcom kid and haven't played competitive Tekken before and it took me a long time to adjust to the system mechanics (you gotta factor in the veteran mechanics like chicken and wake up. Note: having a friend or a local that knows the game helps). I stopped going to arcades before due to my locals having a few marvel/street fighter players (they are either old and don't have that much time to play the games or they switched to a different game). Those where the times that I discovered different games like anime fighters and card games which filled the void of wanting to play 1-on-1 games.
damn thats wild lmao. vanguard is on some other shit
Growing up as a kid, Yugioh was the card game me and all my friends and classmates obsessed with the most. I tried Duel Links with university friends once it was released, but the digital aspect took away a lot of the excitement the physical version had and felt more like a grind than anything before. Something about owning an uncommon or rare physical card is far more satisfying than a digital version for some odd reason. I feel the same way with basketball cards and their digital counterpart too lol
The feeling of just sitting around in the same space playing with friends and family is definitely something that’s hard to recreate with digital card games. My ex and her brothers got me into Yu-Gi-Oh, and I have some really fond memories of sitting around their kitchen table just talking and taking turns playing against each other; and I’ve yet to play a digital card game that replicate the fun of doing 2v2 battles.
All that said, I’m a lazy player who hate math, so all the automation that that comes with digital card games is a big plus for me lol. I just smash card into card and game do math. And the card generation, randomization and other unique elements that can only happen in digital games like Hearthstone is really cool to me.
I guess the ideal thing for me would be an IRL card game that had NFC chips in the cards that helped apply effects and keep score automatically (while still having the cards be affordable). Maybe one day the tech will be cheap enough for it to be practical.
I have to play in person, I like playing my card games like I play dominoes with old Jamaicans
damn fax. i was gonna say dominoes and spades at family bbqs
now i see why ppl like obama, he's a master in getting his opinions out in ways that doesn't offend ppl if he wants, but 99% of the time he chooses to GET THAT SHITTALKIN, and start the conversation where it matters.
Great Teacher Obama, always there to teach the kids about the boomer ways
thanks for clickn
I feel as if the scrappy beginner feeling is unmatched in real life tcgs when you start learning with your friends and everyones gathering scrap and or a couple of good cards that they become known for in the close knit circle. But that ends as soon as we get competitive and build the peak stuff, the scrappy fun goes away and it turns into an actual competition. I feel like online tcgs skip the scrappy part hella fast and also dont enable close knit circles so they ultimately feel pretty empty.
Great video man. Card games have been my main squeeze for as long as I can remember, but it's been a long while since I've had a local community to play with. A big part of the appeal of TCGs, to me, is preparing your deck week-to-week to combat local characters at your FLGS. You want to play at a regional tournament, well you better be ready to counter the meta. You want to play at Hyperlynx down the block on Saturday, you better be ready to deal with Steve and his weird ass frog deck.
Here in Japan we've powered on ahead with our own locals for MTG, in light of official events being suspended again. Even with online avaliable we wanted to support our local store, and actually interacting with people is fun.
That said, MTGO has been helpful with refining my gameplay, basically allowing me to lab decks before events.
yeah, im not saying online clients dont have value. esp when u can use them as you are, to refine offline gameplay
Used to play alot of MTG in person at local LGS playing Modern and legacy(boomer format) and ended up doing a bunch of traveling for it.
Now i can't even get myself to play Magic Arena but i ended up playing a bunch of different games trying to scratch the same itch. Hearthstone, Shadowverse, Pokemon TCG, Runeterra couldn't do it.
Funny enough though I never played in FGC locals before but im enjoying fighting games more now that i have before. thanks for coming to my TED Talk
Magic the Gathering really got me for awhile, but swapped over to digital due to covid and longed for the nostalgia. It's not the same, as playing in person. Like you said the human element gets removed, and I agree 100%.
shit gets sleep real quick
Those mega man sleeves.... I need them in my life.
Just found this channel a few days ago and I'm really ecstatic to see an FG player be also so into card games. Looking forward to more TCG stuff together with the FGC stuff. Bless up.
Glad you enjoy it!
The culture is similar. I remember rolling up to locals and even regional tourneys with the guys from college for Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic. You get to make friends, hang out, and show off your pride and joy deck (kinda like how your custom arcade stick is your own). Yeah it's just a meta deck or yeah that arcade stick has a lever and 8 buttons like any other stick but there's something uniquely satisfying about it. You can't do that in an all-online tournament and show off your account with... Your decklist.
I’ve always felt that playing card games online are missing that heart of playing in person. For me I find great enjoyment out of just handling the cards and shuffling the deck. Seeing how people bling out their deck with sleeves or special editions of cards or playing an all foil deck is always fun. The social interactions in person really can’t be replaced even if you have discord playing with friends.
Same here!
When I hear you talk about "personal interaction", I wonder what you would think of Netrunner? Amazing physical game, with fan-supported digital implementation called Jinteki (Rock Paper Shotgun did a good feature on it).
The complexity is pretty high, but the tension and psychology is immense. Be very happy to play you, if you want an intro.
Even online, people tend to use cam/mic because you need that interaction, for reads, tells, misleading.
It's model (original License has expired, but fan-supported now) was not Collectible, but "LCG" - everyone buys the same expansions, with the same things inside, and goes to town with what they can create with it.
Two asymmetrical sides (Runners vs impersonal Corps), you learn to play and build decks for each. Totally different mindgame. Also beautifully diverse in its artwork - a high tech future with Africa, India, and East Asia centre stage - it's a corporate dystopia with elements of a bright future.
There's very much a give and take when it comes to differences between a digital card game and physical card game. I never played physical card games because it's too expensive and from a time commitment perspective I couldn't dedicate necessary time because I have other hobbies I care about more. However, I at least will try digital card games because generally speaking they have a dedicated way to on board new players. Also, there's a path for free to play players to acquire cards which lowers the barrier of entry. So would I prefer to play physical? Sure as ultimately these are meant to be social games like board games. However, the greatest mechanics and wonderful social interactions don't matter one bit if the investment is too high. Like I guess golf is fine but I'm not spending crazy amounts for a golf club membership merely for the privilege of entering the space, let alone the necessary gear to play.
i think the investment factor is tight
One of the best memories I had was heading to a party in HS where I was quiet for the most part. After about half of the people trickled out and left, some ppl brought out their MTG decks and after watching them play a few rounds, I asked if they could teach me. I tried before but I had an Infect deck, which made it reeeally wonky to actually learn the rules of the game. I think I ended up staying there until 1 am getting destroyed but having a lot of fun.
I think just as a general rule things become more fun and memorable when they’re done in person with other real people. It’s just that human connection that makes it special.
As a life long fighting game player and yugioh competitor, I really understand where your coming from. I feel like my love from both is so tied together by that personal interaction that you get at tournaments with others. Thanks for this videos it was so sick 👍
Well said!
As somebody who used to play MtG in person at the local game store: I'm not trying to be friends with the poorly bathed men who are 20 years older than me. I would rather have the separation that the internet gives me.
😂👌
u weird
This video hits hard - every time my best mate showed up at my place, the first thing we'd do was always bust out the Vanguard decks and we'd just go 2-3 hours until we got bored... and then we fired up Melty/UNIST and went at it then for a few more hours, haha.
Good video as always, keep up the good work man
thanks for watching!
From someone who was addicted to physical card games and then hearthstone having to drop both due to cost, legends of runeterra(leagues card game) was perfect since there is no way to pay for rng aka card packs, great vid btw
thanks for watchin and resonatin
Originally when i lived in massachusetts, my school friend group played Yu-Gi-Oh!. When my family moved to connecticut, my new school friend group played magic. A similar thing took place between games as well; my massachusetts friends played league, and my connecticut friends played dota.
Between the two card games (and between the two games), I actually enjoy magic and dota more I think. the thing i don't like about ygo is that it felt like every deck was (and had to be) a combo deck to some extent. my own deck i built to bring to the tournaments we entered had a one turn kill combo. while i think tempo is also important in magic, it is a bit more freeform in how you can plan out how you want your deck to win.
this is kinda how i feel about league vs dota; in earlier seasons, there were some unorthodox ways you could play the different champs in league, but now each champion is rigid in that they can only really be played in one way. this is in contrast to dota, where each hero can be played in many different roles, and as a result, there is a greater emphasis on player expression.
Me: I summon Obama in attack mode.
Jiyuna: *pisses himself with fear*
lol
I always loved the idea of TCG/CCG's when I was a kid, but the barrier to entry was simply too high.
My first experience was, ofcourse, pokémon cards. We were kids so we had no clue what we were doing, never played the game propperly and were just collecting them. We'd figure out all kinds of weird games to win them off each-other, like both would throw a card along the street and the one who threw the farthest would get both cards, that kind of thing. I simply never bought a pack, just got handed some random caterpie by one of my classmates and worked my way up by literally betting cards on playing at marbling and other schoolyard games.
I honestly regret not continuing to collect the cards, not for the value they have now but because I enjoyed it so much, but simply didn't have the money to spend on them.
The other time I nearly stepped into a TCG was with Magic the Gathering. While we were kids playing around betting with pokémon cards, there was an older kid on the block who would see what we were doing and would show us a 'real' TCG and showed us his Magic cards and give some of the worthless cards away to us kids. As a kid big into fanatasy, reading and playing games I loved those cards. I would stay up at night and simply look at the art, read the flavor text and make up my own stories about them. I'd ask my mom to buy them for me but we had to go to a city nearby and buy them there and we couldn't really afford them, so I didn't get any in the end.
Years later when I had the chance to get back into them I played WoW instead so that's where all my small job money went into.
Nowadays though, I would love to collect them but seeing the cost of the physical cards and the scalpers driving up the prices everywhere I just can't bring myself to do it. Because of health reasons it's hard for me to travel and I live in a village in the middle of nowhere, away from the cities these play sessions would be held so that's a factor for me aswell.
You might also call it the boomer in me, but the digital card games just don't feel real to me. It's so strange spending real money on digital cards you'll never hold.
Anyway, that's a big wall of text from me, thanks for the video Obama. Pleasure as always.
I like how you mention that restrictions breed creativity at around 6:00 when talking about a card game because Mark Rosewater, the head designer of MtG has this as one of his most important lessons throughout his years working on the game.
I love playing magic the gathering and even though I have taken really long breaks, I always come back because that gathering aspect is just so huge. The gamer is nowhere near perfect especially when you take into consideration that the game is almost 30 years old but it is so well made and again having the ability to sit down with your homies, crack open a few beers and just play some magic is something I find really special.
its that kinda game and that kinda experience. can always come back to it
Make the content you're passionate about, King. Even your shitpost content is quality but this kind of levelled-out, discussion style content is another level. Happy for you to be able to do this dude.
I appreciate that and thanks for supportin it regardless
It really is such a shame that out of all video game genres, card games feel the least personal online. No voice chat, no text chat for any major release, no rematch functions for almost any of them and very few players will ever accept a friend request to chat afterwards.
All the positives can't stop me from burning out of each one I try within a few weeks of getting into it just because it feels so monotonous and lonely queueing up against opponents with zero personality due to the lack of systems in place to interact with one another.
Great topic, my friend and I were just discussing how much the digital interface changes card games yesterday. I think the barriers to entry for physical card games can get pretty high, depending on how much cards are, or how many people in your area are available to play. But in terms of giving the best card game experience, nothing beats an in-person match with someone you enjoy playing. Makes me wish there was something that had the best of both worlds, maybe a VR option?
Couldn't agree more
I agree with you on all fronts here. I've played different card games off an on for years, but I always enjoyed sitting down and teaching someone to play or just having some games with friends. I played Magic the most, probably. We had a pretty sizable playgroup in college and I loved seeing our local meta evolve over time and learning what type of player each person was and how to best exploit their weaknesses.
Recently I've poured a lot into Flesh and Blood and am busting my ass to get it off the ground in my area. It's a new game and a lot of stores aren't carrying it and one dumped all of their boxes super cheap because the owner didn't foresee a community developing around it. Fast forward to now where Wizards of the Coast is killing their competitive scene and basically abandoning LGS in favor of easy money from selling direct to Amazon and this store has people banging down its door asking about it. I'm putting together starter decks to teach people the game right now, actually. I have some friends bringing friends that are interested to the shop so hopefully things go well and they decide to pick it up.
Let me offer a different perspective. I love magic the gathering. The nearest cg store is about an hour away from my house. And I live in a pretty dangerous area. Coming back home at 1 am by bus? Always a big adventure.
Another problem is the hygiene in these places. It smells a lot like Jyuna's anime suit, and this is rough.
Another thing that always made me uncomfortable is asking, mid match, about cards that I don't know. Even worst for me because I have fish memory and sometimes I need to ask about it multiple times.
That, with the fact you said yourself about money and MTG Arena saved my life. Never played so much in my life, and I spent like 5 dollars in this in 2 years of playing.
thats dope. not saying it doesnt have its own value, just to me the merits are undone with how u gotta play digital
Funny enough that asking mid match about card info to me is a norm. Until I see a card interaction/combo play out often enough, I just keep it in the back of my mind while I do my own setup/combos with my deck. I've never had anyone get angry with me with that because part of the 'gentlemans agreement' that makes the card game matches legit is keeping the game state the way both parties agree to. The moment one person feels like they are getting cheesed because they can't process the card interactions fast enough makes me feel bad and dishonest.
@@t4d0W Nobody gets angry at me for doing this, but it sure does causes a little bit of a discomfort in both me, for asking, and the other player for having to have patience. Doing this with the timer of Arena and without the other guy seeing your face makes things much easier on my end.
There’s this card game I had no idea existed until a friend of mine brought it up and bought a few decks few years ago. The game is called Exceed and it’s a very cool game that is styled and played similarly to a fighting game. Each deck is prebuilt, but it’s a different character for each and they all have different play styles. One is more rush down and aggression while some are a bit more defensive and use meter more, some can zone etc.
I honestly don’t think I could ever play that game digitally. As much as I would love to play it more, playing it online just would feel so weird and the magic would be gone. Making good reads in that game feels so tied to being able to be face to face with the person you’re playing against and I feel that’s such a core part of it and online play just couldn’t do that sort of thing.
I fucking hate playing any game in person to be honest.
im sure you are a ton of fun at parties
DUELIST OF THE ROSES SOUND TRACK, LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
real ones know
I pretty much feel the same way in-regards to physical vs digital games. My biggest gripe against both (despite digital card games slightly more forgiving money grabs, emphasis on slightly) is the paywall - you build a deck, just to think it's fine, until your friend and/or random sweaty wallet player destroys you with some deck of cards filled with things you've never seen before, other than that one card you thought was trash, but they use like it's keeping the earth on axis. Then you open your wallet again to try and build that next best deck. Its a big reason I turned towards publishers like Plaid Hat Games and Wise Wizard Games for competitive card games that are good to go and essentially balanced straight from the box with expansion decks that aren't random - you know what you're buying. They tend to keep the random factor simply down to shuffles and dice rolls. That being said, if you are down for more card games in person, I recommend Summoner Wars Second Edition from Plaid Hat Games and Star Realms from Wise Wizard Games. Both are very fun, still give you a sense of deck-building if you get a few expansions, and don't feel like nearly the money pit of other games. Neither game require two people to buy into it, one person can, and two people can play against each other. Oh, and homemade dice towers are fun to make too if you get bored and want more fair rolls. XD
Something about topping a regional offline means more than online. The online events I’ve taken part in; in Pokemon, YGO and MTG I am constantly reminded of the “this would feel so much X offline” or what have you
I do believe that runeterra has bloomed as a magnificent online game during lockdown and the feelings of offline interactivity is yearned for in the playing with the delays in play, roping etc.
Ultimately, now in the UK we can have locals again. I have missed offline play and appreciate it more. It is really up to the online games to try to grab me back
Made alot of valid points about the common parallels between physical card games and fighting games offline. Spent a fair portion of time on both and never really connected those dots. Great vid.
Thanks for watchin
I used to go to local tournaments and play Naruto tcg back when it was super popular in my hometown during my early intermediate to late highschool years.
I think it was also my first tcg where I put a lot of effort and go to tournaments every Friday.
I had other tcg in the past like Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, Magic and the old Digimon tcg but Naruto tcg felt the most fun to me. After like 6 years of me playing Naruto tcg with my friends at school and other people in tournaments, the game eventually lost it's popularity. Me and my friends started university at the time that the game was starting to lose popularity + economical issues at home made me pretty much retire from tcg in general. Ever since then I haven't come back to tcg related stuff. I also heard that the tournament place eventually closed too.
I've tried to get hooked on online tcg like Magic and Yu-gi-oh but it doesn't feel the same to me.
I still keep the Naruto cards with me, haven't sold them. I think they have a lot of sentimental value now, every time I look at them they just remind me of those good times. Lmao
I've seen some of my friends recently hyped for the new Digimon and Dragon Ball Super physical tcg but my current economy issues are gatekeeping me from trying those out. lol
Man you´re into the new Digimon card game AND use Duelist of the Roses OST in this video. Good taste right there.
Me and two good friends of mine got into the Digimon TCG as well and we´re having a blast with it. Certainly helps that all of us grew up with the franchise and the artwork quality is through the roof.
Nothing beats your opponent´s face when you continously leave him at 1 memory every turn lol
All the CCGs I ever got into I quit after a few months because I play card games for the social aspect first and foremost. Actually, it´s the same for fighting games. Playing randoms online gives me no satisfaction whatsoever. Playing locally is the way my man. Seems like I´m a boomer in that regard as well.
only the finest on this channel
Great video. I started playing MTG 13 years ago but I stopped after Dragons of Tarkir. I played Hearthstone for a long time after and recently got back in to MTG through MTG:A because the convenience and affordability for high level play is really attractive for someone who works in the office 8 hours a day and just wants to go home and play a few games after work. Totally agree about the added social element of paper though and I still miss the feeling of offline paper play even though I can never see myself getting back in to it outside of a few local draft events here and there.
Another banger man. I do hate how fighting and card games don’t let us just... chat.
Also love that intro 😂
It’s really cool to see you talk about card games, I’ve been playing them my whole life before FGs and there’s always a new card game to get hooked on.
I absolutely agree with preferring physical, being able to forge bonds with people through playing a game in person is huge. I was at a Flesh and Blood prerelease a couple weeks ago where my first match was playing against a newbie, it gave me a chance to teach him how his cards work and how he should play, saw him later that day in top 8 out of 32 total players. I felt like a proud parent, you’ll never get those moments in digital card games.
But yeah to answer your question at the end, I was hooked on Yugioh for more than a decade before it became glorified solitaire. Played Mtg casually forever and still do, but with the start of corona I’ve played Flesh and Blood and Universus/UFS more than anything.
They’re both games with a cool back and forth gameplay loop that reminds me a lot of fighting games, so I’d recommend checking either out if you get a chance.
thanks for sharing and watching
That intro is SO good
Great video. Yugioh and Vanguard were both huge for me (both physically and digitally) and it was a ton of fun meeting new people and making friends in them. Playing digital card games like Hearthstone never compared and there was always something missing although I could never explain to anyone why I preferred physical games, where I had to spend a lot money, versus digital games where costs were much lower (although they can be grindy).
Your video made me realize that you just never have those moments where the whole shop is watching you play and they see you make a big brain move or top deck that one card and everyone goes wild. The social interactions just make it so much more special.
thanks for watchin
I feel the same. I played yu gi oh for 6 years and only stoped because the game became too expensive and i did not adapted very well to the link mechanics, but when i tried online card games such as heartstone and magic it's just not the same. In the end I realized that What i really liked about the game was the ambient and the interaction with the other players.
it just aint the same
Majin's knowledge knows no bounds.
thanks for watchin
Nice to see this sort of varied content in this channel, it’s really cool
Glad you enjoy it! One thing I wanted to do was make a lot of different shit but also have bread and butter, you know?
@@doogies sounds good
Despite the title, your take was really civil and respectful. A well done video.
Playing yugioh in person really got me out of my social egg shell, talking to my friends more and meeting new people (good and bad). That being said i haven't looked back at the game since pandemic and I don't miss buying cards getting banned from tournament play the next day lol. the feeling of having that disconnect from digital card games also resonate with me.
i think i'll always prefer playing those games in person more than digitally. great vid bro
At the end of the day card games are majority parts social. It's about going to the place to see the gang and have an activity to organize around.
You don't realize it until you remove it. Digital Card Games are empty because it's just rng on a screen, may as well play slots.
Most of the strategy revolves around knowing every card or at least the meta. So spend x time, spend x $, win x % more. And when you win, you win nothing.
It's fun to play with people because you have conversations and other things going on around it....
IE i don't care about that new junk combo deck that just got released, but meeting that dude at locals who's hyped about it and wants to talk about how he's building it makes me interested in it.... etc. etc.
The group dynamic of card games, dnd, tabletops give them their staying power. Remove that, put it online, make it cost a trillion dollars when it's literally a proxy of a physical card game, meaning all cards are proxies, utterly valueless, no scarcity, no physical tangible product.... physical cards are at least backed by the cost of production... cardboard, ink.... shipping....
sure people work to code these online card games, but simply put, every online card game ever could have 100% free cards and still build a profitable business models through base purchase + subscription....
They don't want that, it's less money for them. That's all well and good, but they are missing the fundamental purpose of these games and the underlying reality of their value propositions.
Slay the Spire or any other contained single player card game experience is superior to hearthstone, magic arena, master duel, because they have a full offering rather than a fractional offering of a game which is locked behind a paywall which even if passable for you, limits the active audience. Then, contend with bots in these free to play hybrid models, which overwhelm all games.
Eventually they'll have to cave because there's far too much competition for digital games money spending. Are you running a game, a self-contained, fully complete, yet still profitable venture? orrrrrr are you running an endless cash grab; a scam. No card game is worth this much money, the faux markets of old cardboard pushed by nerd-ass gen x'ers and boomers are responsible for this nonsense.
IDGAF if the card is 30 years old gem mint or 1 second old off the printing press, what does the card do?
i agree. there is a shift now because of streaming, i think? but i still need that in person element
Playing Yu-Gi-Oh and the BB card game is waaay more fun offline then any digital simulator or whatever. The irl interactions are too good
its not even close to me
one of my favourite part of digital card games is when you pull out the most random tech card that wins you the game and you just get to see your opponent's ''wtf'' face as they die to a card they didn't know existed
I love tabletop games. I agree with your points for the physical aspect even though I primarily only play digital now. Like you said the social aspect is great in person, and I even like doing things like keeping track of counters and what not (you’re in full control and customize everything how you want). The best part about digital is being able to play whenever you want, and you don’t have to organize your library of cards. However, the way you obtain cards made me take a break this set for Magic. I don’t want to do dailies/weeklies in every game I play (it seems every game has this model and I don’t like it). Just taking a little break from it.
Not very many of my friends play Magic, but I was able to meet with a couple friends (one for the first time) for some friendly commander play. Even though we used precons we had some drinks and had some fun. Physical has always been more fun imo. I stopped playing Magic early in college, because my friend moved away. (Shards of alara/conflux/alara reborn were my first and last sets). Then, I got word of the new set, War of the Spark. I was so hyped for the set that I went to a pre-release at my LGS. There was over 200 people there and it was the first time I met up with people I didn’t know to play MTG. It was such a fun experience, and it brought me back. I think digital and physical are both good in their own way. I’m a boomer too. Lol I like interacting with stuff. Idk
I remember going to yugioh tournaments in Germany with friends and while the money was tight and our decks trash it was clear everyone of us would drop out very early, yet it still was fun. There is just something exciting to sitting down at a table with somebody and play the game. I think that digital games just make you focus too much on the game like you said and it starts to seem as if winning is the only thing you should be doing.
I've never gotten into card games, partly because of the barrier of entry offline and partly because they don't really appeal to me as 'video games' but I found your discussion on the subject interesting and the parallels to FG's offline/online discussion are definitely there.
I do wonder if in the future we'll get some hybrid AR card game where you can blend both the low barrier of entry with digital cards and the offline personal person v person with a moving AR avatar and digital hologram decks and playfield. That's the kind of shit I'd be excited to see with that technology even if ultimately the game wouldn't be for me.
Great vid!
thanks for always coming through chief