The Magni M16
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- Опубліковано 31 січ 2023
- Don Bradley, from Foothill Flight Center in Cameron Park, CA, and Mark talk about the Magni M16 and fly it around the pattern.
If you are interested in flight instruction, you can reach Don Bradley at the Foothill Flight Center in Cameron Park (O61), Don@foothillflightcenter.com, or (530) 303-8137. (Note that there is no "s" in Foothill.)
I used to be part owner in that Gyro. Logged 100 hours in it. Don is an excellent instructor and he is right, the gyro is super fun. Mark did great!!😃👍
Ha!Ha! Brilliant gyrocopter flight guys! It appears that Mark had a fun time with Don's outstanding instruction. I've seen these machines on numerous occasions and they bring a smile to my face!
Scary fun.
What a fantastic aircraft! Not a bad instructor either… :) I highly recommend Don and Foothill Flight Center!
A home run Mark, OUTTA THE PARK! Very cool, thx!
Thank you, David!
That camera shot looking down was the coolest.
Amazing view when airborne!!
The proof, if it was necessary, that the world of aviation holds many riches and that there are a thousand ways to get laid in the air with class and originality, “No matter the bottle provided one is intoxicated”. Thank you again, Mark, for each of these great videos and for sharing unforgettable experiences. See you soon I guess….Lionel
Very interesting way of aviating!! Thanks Mark!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
The views captured by these 360 cameras are trippy 🤩
Try this one. It's the same footage, but rendered in 360. You can look anywhere you like. - Don the Camera Guy. ua-cam.com/video/1VrWxs_3uto/v-deo.html
I learnt to fly gyros with the same model.
Despite being an airplane pilot and a helicopter CFI, I declined to assume flying a gyro would be a piece of cake. It helped, of course, but it also was a bit of an hindrance sometimes. Anyway, a Magni is unbelievably safe and forgiving provided you do not solo too soon. Therefore have a good instructor who cares about your safety and everything will be fine.
It's a different feel although it flies like a plane.
Fuel on-board is 19 u.s. gal. Max throttle is 5 mins in boost. The Magni is the most stable of all the Gyroplanes according to Dr. Phil PhD. Awesome camera work. You're on the edge of the world Mate!! How does it feel? Love your gyroplane stuff with Jim Vanik. Ok two Gyroplanes now. With Jim you had no doors and now no canopy. Thanks for all your videos.
Thanks for the info!
Beautiful!!!
I haven't flown one of these things since I flew over DC and stopped at the White House
We wondered if that was you!
It wasn't one of these. Are you the mailman on a flying frame?
Baiden is it you ?
More great content. Thanks for getting outside the box (fuselage)
Glad you liked it, Brett! More Magni fun will be in the future.
14:00 transitioning into an autorotation... wow! A new learning experience. Seems like a good trainer to get into helicopters..
There is no transition into autorotation. The gyrocopter is always in autorotation. The transition was from straight and level flight to zero forward airspeed and a gentle decent. It is our understanding that gyrocopters don't fly like helicopters, except for the rotary wing.
Mark, bring that guy back again! Get those cameras working. That looked incredible. Thanks.
We'll see what we can do, Mike.
This was just to cool
It was very good fun.
Very cool!
However, that power push over stuff would give me the willies.
Dang... I need the lottery so bad...hahahahahahaha... cheers!
What fun!
It really was!
Great video, and excellent instruction! I want to know how you keep your headsets on and why they don't fly away. Is there a chin strap holding them in place?
They just stay on.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Wow...I've been afraid to fly w/o a helmet holding them on.
awsome
12:28 Like piloting a Broom Stick!
Pretty much.
Try one without a pod. You literally have a stick, your feet and a couple of instruments. However the most disconcerting thing is the rotor its just like slight shadow which is great in tight banks you can see straight through it but if you look up at it for too long you can get a "no visible means of support" feeling. Usually if that happens you drop a couple of hundred feet and you stop worrying. But you are definitely on the outside. Then you jump in a mates Cessna and you claustrophobic, instrument panel in front of your face. I like the kitfoxes because they have a much better view but nothing beats an open framed gyro for pure view. Mind you winter you freeze your balls off ;)
Wish I could do that 😊
Any aircraft that makes seasoned professionals like you giggle like a little girl...has to be an absolute ball to fly.
Dangerous when poorly flown, but yes ... it was great fun!
Blimey; do they fit 'Klench-proof Kevlar' - a tough, 'EZ-grip' seat fabric for 'those important little places'? : )
It was great fun if not a little hair-raising with the hight.
The huge amount of low frequency vibration these machines are subject to makes it to where I personally could never be comfortable in one. In the back of my mind I would always be thinking how it is shaking itself apart. I get the same feeling in a Robinson helicopter.
A good point.
Many machines are poorly set up in terms of static rotor balance. You can all but remove all of this with proper balancing and stringlining your rotors. Here's an example of what you can get the vibrations down to. ua-cam.com/users/shorts7StX_I8w570 there is always a 2/rev but as you can see this isn't huge amount of vibration and the mast is designed to absorb this energy. Ken Wallis's rotor heads actually used spring to absorb the 2/rev incorporated into the rotor head. The same balance can be achieved in R22's too but too many people just put it down to the nature of the beast and don't fix it. Having built my own rotors I don't put up with vibration and I've experienced just as much vibration in Cessna's and ultralights but you have to take the time to get it right, too many don't.
OK - this is not me saying it’s wrong, because it may be legit. But I sometimes hear the term “cyclic” used for the stick in a gyro, as Don used it in this video. Is it just a habit based on helicopters (or rotorcraft in general)? I ask because the stick does not manipulate the cyclic blade pitch like a helicopter (or does it?). Or is it more accurately simply called a control stick?
This something I have been wanting to try for long time - might have to drive up to Cam Park and actually do it. Thanks to you and Don for the great, informative video.
I'm not sure if it is cyclic in a Gyro.
You are correct the disk is moved by moving the whole rotor (some commercial gyros had genuine cyclic controls). The teeter is offset (in effect) so it can only change the pitch of the blade at 90 degrees to the angle of change of position. So if the blade is fore-aft and you pitch the stick backward (although its only there for a spit second) it won't change anything because its hinged on that axis, as the blade moves with the head back it will twist the whole rotor with the retreating blade now angled down and the advancing angled up.
This change of pitch causes the rotor to fly into a new plane of rotation. This process can take several rotations so there can be a slight delay in response but not so you'd notice. Its also why the blades can be very light and not require heavy stick inputs. Although blade flexibility and point of chord wise balance will make blades more or less happy to quickly respond. The old wood rotors which have external chord weights and are very flexible are significantly more stable. I believe these rotors are very slightly overbalanced chordwise which will greatly increase stabilitiy and make them more immune to gusts as a result. 25% is the normal balance point chordwise if you go slightly nose heavy its more stable -too much and the weave and too tail heavy and they become dynamically unstable.
Someday could you find someone with a nice Ercoupe to review and demonstrate? I hear that a chap named James Good from Nevada County has a great one.
James, if you are reading this, consider it an open invitation to come do an owner's interview!
Need some thoughts from Mark after the flight please?
The camera was on "Still's and we missed all that. We will have to do it again.
Wow you flew higher than Whiz Khaliffa 😁😁😁
I'm not sure who that is.
Cool video Mark, but not for me, I have to be in a cockpit.
this would be a cool plane to release a 360 degree video of.
Here is one I put together a little bit ago: ua-cam.com/video/5QJ3F3VwReE/v-deo.html
Since you asked, here you go! - Don the Camera Guy
ua-cam.com/video/1VrWxs_3uto/v-deo.html
@@skywagonuniversity5023 seeing these makes me want to get my gyro endorsement 👀
AAaaaahhhh !!!!!!
Yes. That is what I said.
Indiscernible re-enactment following the cut
Ha! Surely you aren't saying Mark is stiff, are you? Lol! - Don the Camera Guy.
Open cockpit gets me.
Like sitting in a shallow sided bathtub doing 90 MPH at 3500 feet.
Wow, mark is there anything you can't fly?
Haven't gotten clearance from the boys at NASA to take the shuttle out for a spin. Something about it being out of annual.
Looks like fun but not for those $$
It was.
You can build them very cheaply but you have to go single seat and either put up with a two stroke or what I did a converted VW. I built my VW for about $2500 ish 30 years ago. Mind you I had to build almost everything rotors etc. I also had plenty of help. To build something like a good little gyrobee now you'd be looking at $12 000-$15 000 buying your rotors etc. you could cull that down to maybe $10 000 if you built your own prop and rotors. But I've seen them with low hours for $5 000 so provided you got someone to properly check it out you can do this sport very cheaply.
I think the single seat Nano is something like 27 000 euro? Not cheap but great little machine. And it would be much more fun than a heavy machine like this which will be significantly less sporty although slower and less reliable. The real issue is transition the two seaters like this are very, very heavy. Typically around 300kg empty add two pilots and fuel and its all very heavy. The nano and gyrobee are closer to 100kg empty, and with only one pilot. So you get your licence in something like this and now you are jumping into a little pocket rocket. So you need to spend some time getting used to the very light stick feel etc.
Not for me thanks Mark ! I’m a pilot but scared of heights without anything of substance under me feeling.
I'm also scared of hights.
I was afraid to climb the rope in gym class but a couple years later was happily cliff-launching hang gliders. Can't explain it. And with hang gliders the concern was always being too low.
@@christheother9088 i went up in a glider and didn’t like not having anything between me and the edge of ‘the drop’ feel.
@@davidpearn5925 The benefit of a hang glider is without an enclosure you can actually feel the air - and it feels thick once your at speed - like swimming. Sailplanes take that sense away for the most part.
@@christheother9088 I need an ‘office’ ….not so much ‘the view’ which freaks me out…….unfortunately.
The only proper scientific study on these things found the stab as big as it is will not stop a bunt over I wish people would stop saying this plenty of gyros inxluding magnis have bunted over. Training is key cg vs thrustline is also important. The gyro in the 60s were generally short mast short rotored and were no unstable if build according to Bensen plans. Problems were the head design which was fixed by the 1960s and lack of training. Not saying the instructor here is dishonest by look up the glasgow university study which not only computer modelled but also test flew models in wind tunnel and this type of gyro with a series of tests. Look it up.
Don didn't say the aircraft wouldn't bunt over. He said the stabilizer stops the tendency to do so. He was factually correct in what he said. Put another way, would you prefer to fly a gyro with a stabilizer, or without? - Don the Camera Guy.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 thanks for the reply and again I attribute no malice to Don he seemed great but he has been sold at best an exaggeration. As I said this has been tested. There is a picture of that model of gyro from a fatality bunting over chopping off its own tail.
Consider this thought experiment. Dyno-bolt your fixed wing and Don's gyro onto the runway with brackets in a steady gale pointing directly over the nose. Lets say a nice steady 50mph. Now the objective is get the wing to change its angle of attack using the stick. First your fixed wing. You can pull your stick forward and back but the fuselage itself will stop the wing moving. This works better than your HS because in flight resists changes by your elevator.
Now the gyro. Don can unload his spun up rotor real easy he just has to push the stick full forward. In fact we do it every time we land to slow the rotor - its why he had you lock the stick forward after landing.
If Don had taken your machine to 100mph you nose would have been below the horizon. This means unloading the rotor stabiliser or not can be unloaded once it is unloaded the blades will stop in about 1 second. Usually the inertia of the machine will send it straight through the rotor.
So the stabiliser will not stop bunting over. There have only ever been 2 scientific studies into stability in gyros (that I know of) both determined that stabilisers wouldn't stop this. The latest Glasgow Uni study was the best as its modelling was confirmed with flight test data.
Don't get me wrong the Magni is a well build gyro. But its IMO dangerous to imply the stab will stop these fatalities it wont it hasn't.
The most impact on stability is having correct thrust line vs cg. Gyros have very high cg's because of the rotors and rotor head so require down thrust or pilot position to more align with cg. This has been understood since the first gyros in the 1920s. Its the reason why the early gyros all had between 5-8 degrees down thrust on their engines. Bensen in the 50s had 3 degrees and a very short mast it had proper down thrust. Wallis's machines too.
But that wont save you either. The real danger is flying the things too fast. The higher the forward speed the shallower the disk angle.
Most bunt overs in the early days of the home build era were not because of a lack of stabiliser but because of almost everyone back then having to teach themselves to fly. Many tinkered with the Basic Bensen design without due consideration. For example people didn't understand thrust line and would remove all down thrust. Etc.
Stabilisers were an attempt to cure a problem caused by another issue. You dont fly the airframe in a gyro you fly the rotor. The airframes stabilitiy is not so simply linked a big tail may slow the tails tendency to rise into the rotor when you unload it but being isolated on a universal joint it cant stop the blades being unloaded and stopping and hence loosing all lift. Once the blades have lost all lift how do you plan to recover and is it relevant if the gyro has cut its own tail off? No unload the rotor and your dead.
Myself and two others tried to argue a guy out of flying his new gyro over 100mph (he had only 3 hours solo). We explained the risks of unloading his rotor he claimed the huge stabiliser and cg vs thrust line would stop a bunt over happening. I acknowledged that it wouldn't and he should build more hours before flying close to VNE. His instructor and the builder of that very nice and well designed gyro was standing 3 feet away listening and said nothing. The next weekend he bunted over at 95knots (his gps was recovered) his large HS was chopped of by his own rotors. His gyro stopped so violently mid air his harness ripped from the frame and his body was found minus half of lower leg (it was cut off as he rapidly exited through the windscreen on the bottom of the instrument panel) 50m from the rest of the wreckage.
In short good training is the only guarantee of not bunting a gyro over. The Magni is an excellent gyro but no safer than a Bensen. Both if flown with respect are safe. Neither stab or appropriate cg vs thrust line will stop a determined idiot or ignorant pilot unloading the disk. His advice in always keep positive g is what keeps you alive not the stab. The stab will have positive impact at lower speeds and make the airframe not respond as much to poor pilot input which can potentially reduce tendency to over control or it may make a student unaware of the degree of ove rcontrol they are manifesting. Either way training with a good instructor is what is critical.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 oh and i flew gyros without stabilisers for years. Have no problem flying with one but the evidence suggests gyros without stabs have shorter recovery time from disutbance at high speed but better at low speed. Personally i want my gyro to communicate what its doing. The airframe only responds to what yoy are telling it to do and i never fly fast enough to unload the disk.
The question you need to ask yourself is how fast do you want to fly. Don said 80-100mph cruise. My answer would be 80mph. 100mph and your disk is shallow and it would just take a small sudden push to unload.
Great explanation. - Don the Camera Guy.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 ta again no offense meant i was told exactly the same back in the day. You seem an excellent instructor btw. If your interested have a look up the glasgow uni analysis. If hard going but their findings are interesting.
" so what would that cost, one in that condition"?..........." In today's market....around $70,000 dollars"...................................."excellent"....................crickets.....
Not enough side on that thing, side is as high as the seat! Must be scary as hell... :-) Interesting machine though..
You've never been in AL Ultralight have you
You really don't notice it once you get going.
Nope
It's not for everyone.
No thanks!!
Yep. Nope.
More for me
Yeah … no thanks
It may not be for everyone, but I haven't had so much fun flying since I initially got my license. These things are so much fun to fly! - Don the Camera Guy.
Expensive toys with little or no practical value.
That applies to almost every aircraft in every hanger out there. And they do have immense practical value in my country (Australia) they are used extensively in mustering sheep and cattle. most blokes flying single seat gyros with an engine like this doing every bit as good a job as the choppers only they use significantly less fuel, significantly less maintenance and can fill up on car fuel. What's an R22 1/2 million dollars and a single seat gyro with a 912 or 914 can be built for around $40 000 or $50 000 put a rotax two stroke 583 in and significantly cheaper - although less reliable. No time life on the rotors and the farmer can maintain his own gyro without an aircraft mechanic. Fuel burn about 13litres/hour. here is Wolfie mustering ua-cam.com/video/mz_vK374etU/v-deo.html Here's how well these machines can be flown. ua-cam.com/video/UchU_mvRENU/v-deo.html.
Yep they are not a cross country machine although as noted speed range is similar to a Cessna 150 but in very specific roles they outshine almost everything else, in maneuverability even better than most choppers although they can't actually hover I've yet to see any chopper do anything anywhere near as maneuverable as this (although this guy is pushing his luck some of this is really risky).
ua-cam.com/video/4jQe238K2es/v-deo.html
@@cameronlapworth2284 Well I'm certainly not going to argue against your success.
But you realize that only a tiny fraction of the population musters cattle.
I live in an area with free range cattle alongside residential areas. It's one of the last such areas in the United States. I use a drone to chase them away as for me they're just pests.
I do know there are some ranchers that use drones to herd or muster cattle and there are videos on UA-cam demonstrating that.
Would be a lot cheaper and safer but not nearly as much fun.
Good comment, thank you.
@@braininavatnow9197 Hi Brain, I agree if you can get drones to work for you that's great although in outback Australia with properties that can be hundreds of km long and mustering pilots like wolfie (and do check out the linked videos) often are mustering for 10 hours a a day for days at a time. They often have to fly out and find cattle at extreme distances I'm sure eventually (possibly now) we could have some sort of wireless or satellite tracking of stray cattle but currently at least here many properties use gyros for mustering. Not for me personally though its difficult risky work.
I agree in general too most modern brought gyros are WAY too much money. To give a contrast I built my first with VW for $2500 (that was 30 years ago but even then it was cheap). I was a young starving freelance artist and most of my cash had to go into supporting my business. Today I could build one with a 55hp two stroke (new) for about $10 000 - $15 000, single seater. I could build a two seater but for reliability you are looking at one of the 100hp + rotax series (or similar) and thats going to be $30 000 min just for the engine and then airframe and rotors, rotor head etc. I have access to lathe, milling machine etc so could build my own rotor head, I've built my own rotors etc. But most buy these so for a 4 stroke rotax machine (new engine) you are looking at probably closer to $35 000 to build one. But you don't have to my old VW was enormous fun and taught me to fly although it was unreliable and bloody loud.
But it could get off quicker than these heavy machines (it was 1/2 the weight of that machine) even though I was hand winding rotors, couldn't climb as well but I could fly down to 12mph without loosing height. Two stroke machines are much lighter so had I had a 503 or 583 I would have climbed as well or better than this and still go great. I've seen low hour single seaters of good designs like the gyrobee going for $5000. No hanger fees 20 minute set up time. keep it in your garage and still have room for your car, get off in shorter distance. But yes your not going anywhere fast. I knew guys who flew VW just like mine at 100mph (very dangerous). Mine could happily do 80mph all day but was too uncomfortable (open frame). Pretty good fuel burn too. Probably 500ft/min rate of climb so not scorching a rotax 583 would be around 1000-1200ft/min.
So yes not useful to fly long distances but enormous fun for a quick 45min-1hour rip around - my VW had about 3.5hours on a full tank but you were way to fatigued by wind and noise and getting way too cold most of the year. But I would get bored flying cross country. I used to fly with an ultralight mate and he was working the whole time. He was feeling thermals I couldn't so he was actively flying even at 9:00am in summer. I would be meanwhile hands and feet off (they are stick fixed much more stable than fixed wings - stick fixed neutral though so leave the thing alone and it flies itself hands and feet off). So I'd dangle and look at the view and watch my mate bouncing up and down tipping left and right in stuff I couldn't feel. The 20 minutes latter we'd turn at a way point which for me was gentle pressure (not even see the stick move) and a little rudder and straight again for another 20 or 30 minutes etc. I wasn't fast enough to get anywhere quickly and I was thoroughly bored. He'd land and I'd pop off and hoon around at 300ft following creeks doing tight turns, flying sideways vertical descents etc and then come back and land. They will also fly in conditions that all other light aircraft are grounded in. I have literally taken off in a 1m ground run in 30mph+ winds across the strip and landed vertically from 10 ft. No one else could fly on those days because it was blowing across the strip. So yes you are right they have limitations which is why they never had the commercial success of faster fixed wings and they can't actually hover so they aren't viable for many roles of helicopters. But they are really fun and maneuverable and if properly trained extremely safe. Cheers