What’s Wrong With Inferno?
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
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Go watch @mahone_tv 's The History of Inferno Banana Control video: • The History of Inferno...
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Timestamps
0:00 What's Wrong With Inferno?
1:18 Inferno's Inherent Map Design
3:01 "CS2 Inferno is Claustrophobic"
7:04 Inferno's Details
8:27 The Way to Play Inferno is Unfun
10:20 MR12 & Inferno
12:21 An Unwelcome Conclusion - Ігри
Hey! Thank you for watching my video, I hope you enjoyed it. Inferno was one of my favorite maps in CSGO, and was by far my most played map. This video could have easily been 30+ minutes had I delved more into my love for CSGO Inferno. Unfortunately, that love is gone now, and I find myself avoiding this map in CS2 as much as I can. My opinions here are just that, opinions. If you enjoy Inferno, I don’t want you to feel like you shouldn’t (13:25). I love this map and this game, and with a few small tweaks, I feel like Inferno could be returned to its former glory. ❤
Solid video brother! Hopefully videos like this one and the pro scene dodging of this map leads to some reworking! 🙏🏼
Even though the new Inferno took a week or two to get used to, I personally love the new Inferno, a few "campy" angles are removed, and its also visually very pleasing
Personally, I don't really care about the clutter; it doesn't bother me at all when the map layout is in my head and it's just basically the same thing
Yes, utility is heavily reduced now, and I do wish that Valve does do something to fix that, since it does get annoying when trying to counter CT utility
Had to come back here to respond that no one hates Inferno now more than Karrigan 💀😭
It almost feels like you have to play CT side as a Terrorist and you have to play T side as a Counter Terrorist in order to get anything done
On T side I've started having to play alt mid and watch top mid at the beginning of each round, it's been such a weird adjustment and makes the pacing of the round feel so weird
office players: first time?
yeah but office IS a different game mode...inferno is still defuse@@youssefahmad6991
@@youssefahmad6991that's a different game mode, not really the same.
If CTs have propensity for rushing, wait for them as T, if they don't, go super aggressive until they change it up, and yeah, this map I definitely feel the same way. If your teammates do not know banana meta, then you're likely screwed in higher level play. cs2 definitely changed the lineups of a lot of banana util.
This map used to be easier in early cs when the walls were made out of paper and you knew where enemy was likely rotating to/if you heard reloads and footsteps
the best way to fix inferno is to replace it with cache
agreed
L take
@@Koijn2K the ratio would tell you otherwise bud
cache is comin in cs2 dont worry
please jesus answer our prayers, i havent liked inferno since og version, the newest updated cache in csgo is my baby D;
Feels good being featured in a WilsonCS2 video 😎 Thanks for having me!
Office having mostly perfectly flat floors is so cream
~ no one, ever
@@thnkr-jl7hw Office a different type of cs map lol shit is butter
Office is just messing around
Best map but people just love to hate it
tbh office is the type of map that only veterans like
I love Office and Italy cuz i always played it in CS:S
Banana is hell right now lol
U mean inferno? Right ...😅
@@fotina45banana on inferno ofc
he means banana on inferno?
@@fotina45
I like Inferno
BOO THIS MAN
inferno is a good map
Same bro
Inferno is goated
Npc
My main gripe with Inferno is actually the visual clutter. There's just so many small details that it looks beautiful but also a nightmare to spot enemies (especially some Agent skins with their unique colours and models) in the crucial splitseconds you get. I also get less FPS on it which probably compounds the problem (I average ~144 FPS on it compared to ~180 on other maps, the 144 FPS often drops to ~100 FPS if there are smokes in view).
I think CS2 Nuke is a map that made the transition much better. CS2's new lighting helped to modernise the late-CSGO version of Nuke, while the map's assets themselves were already good enough. The map is detailed enough to look real, while also lacking visual clutter and feels better with regards to target acquisition.
My team of friends instantly votes Inferno off, as I just can´t play on this map. I in fact get overwhelmed with the information, because of the clutter and my brain just stucks. Never had anything like this in my life while playing.
I feel this, whenever I play Inferno, the game just become a stop motion movie. Even with lower graphics it's still straight unplayable.
There was a time when I was pushing banana from B and a terrorist was crouched at the barrels and it was so hard to friggin see him. I only noticed him a few shots before I died. Not only was his head a little hidden, but the model's shirt and white vest made him easily blend in with the wall
@@FakeFlemishOfficer yea too much color, too much light so the t are blending in if you are going default color
"Oh no I get 144 fps this game is UNPLAYABLE"
It may sound dumb but i liked the bluish feel to inferno in go. The new inferno feels bland
no that was a big reason i liked it too, it was the most colorful map in go, overpass being another favorite of mine, both of the cs2 versions visually blow those out of the water but it doesnt play the same
having played lots of inferno back in 2018, that blue atmosphere is certainly nostalgic by now.
My claustrophobia gets triggered whenever i play inferno 😢😢
Ywnbaw
@@minasenjoyer8844 who would want to be one when we have bitches like you around
@@minasenjoyer8844 what a sad life you must live
@@LB666-69 cant be sadder than yours bro
@@minasenjoyer8844 lmao Sure 😂😂
After the last update, crossing just banana is an achievement as the width was reduced and the plants were removed .
I like Inferno but there have been far too many games on T side where the team pushes up to mid and nothing really happens for a minute. Or we rush banana and either win hard or get mowed down.
I feel as if Inferno lacks balance.
What a great video! It gave really good insight, and I think you were able to summarize all the points that I didn't even realize I hated from the map.
Gameplay Perspective: I think when it comes to the "feel" of the map its obviously individual but when it comes to utility I can say it like this.
In CS:GO alot of Inferno's utility and the way u play the map surprisingly intuitive, especially when u understood the skybox. A lot of good maps have this thing where it's intuitive where to put ur crosshair. CS2 Inferno's lineups to circumwent the "italian" buildings is simple. Aim farther up and jumpthrow into oblivion.
Inferno might be one of the maps with the most UNINTUITIVE smoke and utility lineups, in the entire game. That combines with how central utility is and how much u need to know, makes the map feel off.
Recently the changes to Inferno's spawns also make the map EXTREMELY weird with timings, with how far forward the T's spawn.
It's a map where. to me, the only thing that FEELS intuitive is where to put ur crosshair.
I agree. On a map where util is so important, it's really quite obnoxious to learn all of these tiny little lineups.
i think some train lineups were easier than Modern inferno, and i always found the T side util a pain in the ass
Nah man its just that this community is so used with their comfort zone that they reject anything new from the get go. Took a while to get used to the new inferno but as soon as you get the hang of it its smooth sailing. New lineups are far easier and offer a lot more variation for plays than most maps. The moment a couple of teams will make it their home map the entire community will shift their opinion, cuz that’s how sheep work. Might as well leave miraggy as the sole map in the pool since people only want to play that map.
Inferno feels like a very team based map where solo play is still possible but to play it well it requires communication, coordination, and a depth of knowledge beyond just knowing the map
Personally, I find inferno to be one of the few maps where positional control decides a lot, where tactics have to be almost perfectly executed in order to overrun CT advantage. Going out on a burning banana is great when a team makes a normal grenade purchase, puts out the fire with smoke, used flashes to go out in the smoke and crowding CT. This map is probably one of those maps that feels like you really play a tactical shooter, like R6, slow and deliberate.
yeah i agree, i get this feeling on nuke aswell
Yo you're content has helped me tremendously with this game, you really puttin in the work to help alot of people, thank you dude!
I always mess up my util line up on inferno. That map is cursed lol.
miss csgo inferno so bad. my favorite map
I find the slight changes in elevation a nice addition. Something small that a smart, adaptable player can use to throw you off just that little bit enough and you can't just muscle memory your way out of every situation, but actually have to engage your brain a little because the elevation changed just that little bit.
Bringing the mahone zone into a Wilson Video? Totes why I still sub to this channel lots. Amazing essay.
Thank you! Mahone is the goat
banger. The worst thing i hate about inferno has to be the constant micro changes in verticality
Wow I commented on your poll the other day saying I couldn't put my finger on why this map felt bad now but damn you hit the nail on the head with this video!
Thanks Mahone! And Wilson!
I really like the new Inferno. I like the new way to play it as we can improve and customize our playstyle with each different enemy. Yes, it depends on how you play T, because every CT has its own playing style. But I really like the variety, the challenges and therefore our sometimes stupid or irrational gameplay when the whole map is covered in smoke. Anyway, good and interesting video!
Inferno on T side is probably my favorite
wilson faded into existence, I wish my dad could do the same
sorry son but im here to stay
Great vid. Inferno has been my favourite map since forever. Even nowadays the map still feels weird sometimes even tho I played about 1-2k on inferno from my all in all 3k
"I only play Nuke..." - FranzJ
I basically started playing around launch of cs2, hated inferno at first (REALLY hated it), and ended up growing to love it thanks to people like you! I definitely hope that either cs2 gets fixed (more) or inferno gets fixed a little more, but it sure makes me regret not playing more csgo because inferno is where i get the absolute best cs experiences.
banana control is just a race to who’ll get half wall control first
I really love your chan, man! I'm a relatively new subscriber, but I'm blown away by the quality of your content. Keep it up, brother!
Thank you so much man!:)
So many times when I play CS2 Inferno my whole team is just sitting T steps until like 1:20, so now effectively the rounds are 30% shorter because you're just sitting in T steps waiting out util. Also, with how aggressive the CTs play I've found that it's way more effective to just sit in apps and wait for them to walk into my crosshair rather than actually taking map control.
The thing I like about Inferno is how it forces you and your team to use nades more. Everyone thinks they are an entry fragger in faceit, so when you cant do anything without at least throwing a flash it helps your team play together.
Only the OG's enjoy any state of Inferno(+office+italy)
Valve literally watched this video before the most recent update lol
Aside from just...narrower corridors, Inferno is what is known by the pro casters as a "3 square map". This is due to the importance thrown on banana. It's a very chaotic map and totally lucky events can cause huge swings in the score.
So, if you tried to cover the radar/map overlay with four equally sized squares, the fourth square wouldn't even cover much of the map at all and would be out of bounds.
I think it's nice to have 3 square maps in the pool, inferno emphasizes more teamplay and more tactics, such as a pop flash mid round somewhere, or mollying top banana and then, smoking mid, right side, deep flash right, pop flash left, smoke off CTs from A by moto/library, and go B. CTs will spend some amount of time if you have your fifth guy just watching bottom banana from an angle where CTs have to check multiple angles before it. Like, halfway up mid, right side where you have cover from second mid and window
Awesome insight!
Fix small elevations (sidewalks, steps, stuff you get stuck on and shouldn't etc.. For example why do I have to jump on the ledge in graveyard? It looks low enough to just step on.), lower sorrounding buildings and remove buildings that bridge over banana and top mid. Widen out some paths, remove spots where you get stuck. And as a controverial Idea that would change the map in a big way: Maybe add another path between top mid and B site or top banana, with some drawbacks like audio que when it's used (vents or wood boards maybe) and/or jumps/drops. Maybe even make it one way without boost.. Kind of like drop on Cobble?
this is why i think that i like Vertigo more as map and play it more over inferno, because it's less cluttery. it looks modern but also not too distracting with weird elevation or random objects around the map. most of the map constists of "boxes" for you to play around just like the good olds days of 1.6
I also hate getting -50 every time you leave T ramp when you want to go fast b or a
i love inferno because you can do so much with so little (if you play solo). i never have the feeling it is impossible to clutch a round. also im playing like a casual relying on crosshairplacement and experience (timings/smokes/angles) rather than being good at aiming. Good Video man, i still agree the map changed for the worse
I need a video on every map in CS2!
Spammed Inferno on GO, but now it’s like I just let my random teammates decide the map in premier
initially i was disagreeable with the title of this video
but i quickly realised that i often vote for a ban of inferno in premier
be that because it's popular and enemy has advantage or just because i don't want to play it
5:25 - I believe that is the idea of inferno, to be pinned and dominated. That should be the idea behind the name, Inferno comes from Italian and means Hell. I think that is the idea behind the map development - to be inside tight space where you just want to get out. Hell depicted in a gaming map.
As a negev spammer, I enjoy cs2 inferno. Especially on CT side, I can just smoke banana and spam negev. It pretty much guarantees that we win that side of the map
Even if every game with my friends turned into a yelling match and we always argued when we had to play Inferno, those games were some of the best memories i have. And I have to appreciate it for that, in some way me not liking inferno meant I had more fun with it because it gave more reason for me and my friends to yell at each other making it feel so much better when we won
though inferno feels different from other versions, i’ve been able to adapt with little to no hiccups. i’m a chronic inferno enjoyer, so it’s a little different for me, but the fights are all mostly comfortable save for a handful of spots that we’re missing out on in the other maps
they could an elevated t mid window to give back control of mid to t's
The map is perfect and it’s a variation how teams need to work together in order to control sites.
100% agree. Too high and too narrow for me. The only map were learning nade lineups feels like hard and annoying work.
This guy was definitely in a Old Spice Commercial
I love this version a lot more than the old one..I didn't play csgo inferno cuz i hated it but now i can enjoy it
Are the molotovs bigger in CS2? I thought it was just more accurate to its actual range compared to CSGO.
They are, they can even spread out the last few seconds.
They're bigger for sure. I notice it while playing at how much less I have to think about util because of how big smokes and molotovs are now.
Bring back the balcony!
I never played inferno too much in csgo, but I have loved it since the change. I do miss the music though
Mollies need a size nerf in general, hopefully that makes inferno a bit more playable.
I think some widening of nana to accomodate the bigger/dynamic smokes would be nice too.
As somebody who makes maps, we need a special type of "player clip". A "leg only" clip, one that doesn't effect your player view but DOES effect your third/first person leg view, this is one of the things that makes those elevation changes so annoying, because keeping things flat makes moving around the map good but makes shooting enemies look dumb because their legs/feet clip into the slight elevation changes, so instead Valve opted to add clips to the elevation changes causing your crosshair to bump up slightly.
its not a clipping thing really its an IK thing, they already have it for certain things, just have to apply it.
widen the whole map, curve banana to break sitelines... and maybe even bring back the pillars and give back Flower Pot boost
There's gotta be a better way to balance banana than by bringing back pillars. God i hated those.
with my friend we would play inferno 9/10 times but now we dont even think picking it in cs2
The very first thing i thought when i saw the new inferno was: "oh no, the util!"
Moly's are the same in size if i'm not wrong
I havent played too much cs2 but inferno is very team-technical. Its amazing when it goes well and just terrible when it goes wrong. I can totally see how open skybox make it unfun with these OP smokes to squeeze Ts almost into their spawn point.
Im usually not a fan of your videos but this one was great and so true. I'm in awe of how bad some of the map choices valve made are. This new inferno, removing cache, whatever the hell anubis is instead of d2, the list goes on. The one new map that I am a fan of is ancient, its great. Cache was just so much more fun than most of these maps, the downside with it being utility and how awkward it was to throw on that map, but the gunplay was superb. Now, if they would remove anubis and put inferno under the scissors, I might become a fan again. And bring back cache, cache is just so good and it plays very well overall.
Mahone's mirage window smoke history video is amazing if any of you guys haven't seen it yet.
This ^
removes skybox but adds taller walls and buildings, its almost like the map didnt need fixing
really good video wilson. great analysis of inferno as a whole. nice job
Thanks atreidai:)
Inferno main here, and it definitely feels exactly as you were putting it. The map seems too crowded, taking space feels way too hard to a point at which playing with friends that are not as into the game as you are and maybe lack certain skills like trading or certain nade line-ups is neither fun for you nor for them. Banana is hell, good luck trying to rush it or take control of it early on. Exiting balcony is so damn hard without someone being able to trade you effectively or knowing some sort of nade-combo to take control, pit still feels overpowered (coming from a pit-player). Long seems like the only option you can enter a bombsite without thinking too much, which honestly doesn't allow any sort of creativity. The rounds feel repetitive and as if there is just one way to play the map, which is kind of sad imo.
I like inferno, I also like all the changes for the sites to nerf CT. Both sites have tons of angles and can be pretty ratty. Graveyard, pit and behind the fountain were some pretty powerful positions. If played right it can be hard to get someone out of those spots. And even pit can sometimes still be annoying, easier but still somewhat annoying. I think the thing that would help inferno is reduce the size of util and reduce the affect time of extinguishing mollys. And maybe get rid of or heighten the arches on banana.
agree with the smoke molotov thing, its really annoying
Only good thing about it, is when you get to start on Tside and play the bells. Also didnt this map used to have tictacktoe?
Yeah, tictactoe gone:(
They need to fix the Molly delay and then inferno will feel better.
Inferno used to be one of my favorite maps in GO, but now it's just eh. I still like it, it's fun but I don't have the same vibe playing it anymore. I liked the countryside setting it had in GO far more instead of the town setting we have now (Ik it's not a big issue, it's still the same layout but the map just gives out a different vibe now, it feels way too closed). Another thing I don't really like is how awkward some of the angles are. Someone in the comment section already mentioned this and I agree - pit and coffin just feel weird to play now, the angles are weird and aren't as smooth as they used to be. Same thing with T bridge looking onto balcony, the angles feel very off.
I wish they just gave it a visual upgrade like with Nuke/Mirage instead of feeling like they need to remake it from the ground up for the third time now, or at the very least keep the angles & setting the same but remake the textures and whatnot. Inferno really just feels like a different map now, especially with how differently utility works now. I'm just a casual, but I can confidently say that the GO version of Inferno was just much more fun & smooth to play on.
I love inferno, you can do sneaky plays, you can win on pure aim, you can make things complex with utility
What really spoils inferno for me is how clunky many important angles feel now. Two key examples are pit on A and coffins on B. In CSGO these spots were really smooth to peak in and out of, and to change your angle on. Namely, with the removal of the nice curved surface of the bike wheel in pit, you can't jiggle peak over the wall. With just a narrow barrel there, your elevation is fixed, and you can't even crouch to take cover whilst on top of it unless you're looking directly downwards, which defeats the point of holding the angle. Since you now would have to jump upwards onto it to peak over the wall, or hold the angle and hope for a one-and-done (because you can't easily peak away), you're basically forced to just peak at ground level to the left or right of the wall which makes it much easier for the Ts to pre-aim you. Especially with the removal of the graveyard wall as a spot the position just feels so much worse.
At coffins its a similar story, you can no longer peak into/out of cover at all whilst looking over the coffins towards banana. They put up some weird boards there that force you to be exposed the entire time unless you stand right at the back and crouch. It's yet another angle which basically becomes useless for more than a one-and-done spot as you can't easily peak away. I don't know why valve have struck back so harshly on the ct ability to peak horizontally, but it just feels awful to me.
Anyway, these are just two examples of where the map is just a fundamentally worse playing experience to me.
You are describing having to go for retakes rather than saving as if it is a bad thing.
The elevation on the floor on cs2 is due to the legs.
I keep hearing a baby crying the whole video, is it just me? 😂
pit needs the bicycle back!!!!
Amazing content man! More of this please.
Thank you man! I appreciate that.
what typa kush you rippin brah?
Just for the sake of argument that it is possible: 1.6 inferno was way more roomy, especially towards mid, of course it made it harder to smoke of CT spots as well, but maybe that's the way to go. Also, tall buildings = bad idea, it's wrong you can't even flash over mid without proper lineup.
Inferno is my favorite map, always has been and always will be. I love the dynamic of the tight corridors with long angles. However, like you said, banana is ruined in the current version, mainly due to utility issues. You also cannot meet the CT at car from T stairs anymore. In CSGO, if you ran fast enough from T spawn, you could meet the CT playing banana and hopefully get the pick. Now they get there JUST a fraction of a moment before you do. Combine that with utility, and banana is extremely difficult to take if you are on T side. Rushing banana is basically dead.
Yo, huge inferno fan here. I disagree about rushing banana. If u do it from best spawn place, u got window when u rush all timing nades flying over you on banana. Combining with instant own throw double flash nade and you can open b alone easily.
had a few matches on faceit on that map and enjoyed it
I love Inferno, I'm pretty new to the game though so that might have something to do with it
Military Smoke Grenades Extinguish Fire . CS- LOGIC :p BTW How did u forget about Inferno unaligned WINDOWS ?
- there are too many props, details, cracks in the wall etc that need to be removed. its cluttered and makes visibility a lot worse. these small details like cracks or slightly bumpy walls also create weird angles. i've had this issue already when ancient came out in csgo. all these loose bricks and broken edges on the corners of walls make for uneven angles. i'd rather play on a map that is more boxy and has clear edges/lines. this also makes nades bounce more randomly as they hit small pertruding geometry. this is a competitive game after all and not a tech demo for source2.
- the displacements on the ground are also annoying, way too many elevation changes (aiming is off, bhopping is harder)
- instead of widening areas to account for the new utility, i think they should just make smokes and molotovs smaller overall, as i feel like theyre too big in general - no matter which map you play on
- coffins should just be reverted to how the position was in csgo. the new coffins is way too spammable and unsafe to play. the area between coffins and church also has really weird angles with the wall sticking out and blocking the space + once again creating weird angles. i kind of feel the same about 2nd oranges on B.
- t spawn should be a chill & open area again
- as with almost all new maps, i think the map is too bright
My favourite csgo map relegated to my least favourite by a country mile. Great video mate
This map is only even remotely bearable when you at least have 2 people who communicate and coordinate with you
Same thought.
playing B with a friend can be some of the best times you'll have in CS ever
unexpected mahone appearance !
REPLACE IT WITH CACHE BABY
As a noob, I like inferno but I kinda see what you guys are talking avout. Like yeah, I kinda feel im getting destroyed every round in banana and I don't quite see what I could about it aside from waiting for the cts to pop their HEs and mollys
You say the site camping spots got nerfed, but then argue that retakes are difficult. That doesn't add up to me. Can you elaborate? Is it because retake routes are different than initial push?
true, there was a game of inferno that I got more than 500 damage from utils
2:57 crazy round ngl
Personally I don't hate the new inferno but I can see the complaints from the pros. It would be interesting to see if much of the same complaints would be there if the size of smokes and molotovs were reduced.
yes to play inferno at high level you need lots of game sense, rotations are very important this map
Dust 2 is where you learn the basics, Inferno is where you get good at it
All these problems will be fixed by replacing the inferno with a new map
As a passionate Inferno Main I wanna say that I agree to a certain extent. Of course I am biased, because I play Inferno since before it's rework in the early early days of CS:GO, but I can still say that the map is by no means perfect and that things need to be ironed out. Banana right now feels impossible to cross and the positional advantage you have on the map is nuts. I also think that the clutter on the map is annoying, the angles are too blocky and can ultimately decide a 1v1 pick. I still play the map though out of nostalgia factor, but a rework would be most welcome