Dan. Seriously - EXCELLENT video. I know you stand on the shoulders of giants, but that is no reason to undersell your storytelling ability. Well done, mate.
Honestly said he is one of like 3 Guys on UA-cam which I enjoy Watching Gameplay Videos. I am really eager to see Dark Souls 3. Actually I would love seeing him Play other Games as well from the Tales Series to the Witcher Series or even Baldurs Gate :) But if anything. His Story Telling Ability. Is Excellent. James might be the Writer behind alot of his Scripts in Extra Credits. But in actually telling the Stories. Dan is much Superior. (Sorry James but seriously. No matter how good you are as an Writer and Designer. You just aint very exciting to Listen to :P ... well at least for me ^^ Tastes are different after all ^^)
12:25 Dan's dramatic voice: ...we free Lost Sinner from her tortured existence... Sellsword Luet in the background: we killed her, we killed her we killed her, yaaaay!!!
SashaSexyfur that's awesome. I'm done with DSII, but I know some people haven't gotten around to it. do you mind pointing me to some details about said event? I'd love to get involved
1un4cy Daggers are fantastic in 2. Dual-daggers was my easiest playthrough, and versitile and strong enough that I even had 2 separate dual-dagger PvP builds. Sadly I made the mistake of assuming 3 would have similarly good balance. My dagger character did not go well to say the least.
Yeah, Ivory King is definitely my favourite DLC. Also, it's been known before DS3 that Ornstein in Anor Londo is just a very convincing illusion and that only Smough is real; that Ornstein moved somewhere else.
While Dark Souls 2 is far less cohesive and deep than its predecessor, I believe there is very beautiful thematic bond tying all those disperse stories. The loose idea of Want, of making a journey to achieve one's desires, is what drives every character in very different ways, and behind all of those there is a hope, a hope for finding oneself, for gaining power, for finding answers. The monarch is to find hope and by doing so they will give it to those who are behind them, they shall find strengh and others will follow, their hearts lit with wishes for a better future. But there is no future, the future is the past as the eternal circle repeats again and again until the end of times. So there will be those who desire more than being able to choose how to follow fate, those who want to be able to reject it and build their own, even at the expense of others. Those who want to be free from the curse of life, the curse of want. We become at the ending the true monarch, in a quest for answers we fight and kill and die again and again, we become a symbol for our compatriots, giving them a reason to live, a reason to fight and a reason to want. We become hope for them as we hope for gaining our answers, for answers that never came. We make choices that shake the world and most of them do actually nothing. Maybe there is truly no meaning? Maybe Aldia was right and everything is a lie and an illusion? Maybe the truth is, there is no answers, no explanation, no big reveal. Maybe we are subject to be pawns in an eternal game between fire and dark with no end and we cannot do anything about it. Maybe the happiness and tears and anger and peace and everything we felt and thought in our feeble forms is both everything it is and everything it needs to be. Maybe there is no destiny to be found, but isn't the act of choosing, the act of weighting that choice and embracing its consequences, exactly what a true monarch would do?
Indeed, thats why i think DS2 is in fact more lovecraftian than bloodborne, not in theme or in style, but it incarnates existential horror in a much mor profound way. I'm not bashing BB of course, its a wonderfull game in many aspects, maybe even more than the DS series, but the lore elements are not quite there.
I've always had a special spot in my heart for Dark Souls II even though most people find it inferior to DS1 and DS3. You put that feeling into words so eloquently.
Paulo Mangano I don't understand how you can say "the lore elements are just not there" for Bloodbornes cosmic terror. Could you elaborate? Genuinely interested ..
Well the lore elements from bloodborne are very reminiscent of lovecraft of course, but look at the EC video called "why games do cthulhu wrong" or something in that line. Killing eldritch themed creatures may make the game lovecraftian themed, but not exactly lovecraftian horror styled, because lovecraftian horror is not about the creatures themselves, its about facing the inabillity to escape certain demise. Dark souls is this kind of story, you cant escape hollowing, you cant escape the dark age, you can struggle to push it back a little bit, another cycle, another respawn, but you cant prevent it, the same way you can delay cthulhu's awakening, you can fight his cultists, but you cant prevent him from destroying everything.
I love you for this Dan, these 2 videos are among my favorite videos on all of youtube. I don't know what it is about them, they're just so cozy. It's like sitting around a bonfire at night, telling each other stories. It's so true to the spirit of the games.
Can't wait til Dan plays DS3 and reaches *SPOILER* where *SPOILER* and how he/she/it/they *SPOILER*('s) the *SPOILER* from when he *SPOILER* in *SPOILER*
I can't wait until he sees the part with the two SPOILERs that are standing across from a (SPOILER) and he tries in vain to figure out (SPOILER) when its as (SPOILER) (SPOILER) (SPOILER) and the rage will be glorius.
Sketch McArthur spoiler warning, jesus. fuck it, fine! just give the whole game away why not! tell him the final boss is *SPOILER*, and why it's amazing when they *SPOILER*!
+0MidnighttheDragon0 Kidding aside, I feel he might need some help towards the end so he doesn't miss stuff. I mean I won't outright tell him, but I'll be sure to warn him in advance to be very adamant about trying to find secret places and stuff and will be giving him some hints when the time comes.
Raime saw what was happening with Nashandra but Velstadt was blinded by his loyalty to Vendrick despite being from Shulva and doubtless knowing what happened there.
Seeker of fire. Bearer of the curse. What stories lie behind Dark Souls II and the adventures of Elisa? Watch Dan's Lore Retrospective! PLUS! Vote for Extra Credits in the Shorty Awards up to 3 times per day: shortyawards.com/9th/extracreditz
I know you said in the video that you plan to do a playthrough of dark souls 3, but do you ever think, either after dark souls 3 or in the form of Dan Jones, that Extra Play will play through Demons Souls? As the first of the series, it holds a LOT of material that ultimately becomes the rest of the series, and it would be awesome to watch you guys play through it and connect the inspirational dots.
Extra Play I still think that Dan and James should sit together one day to just discuss the design of the game. Where is succeeds and where it fails. I really wish that they would do that. I like how the first Dark Souls play through was initially about the design of the game.
My favorite souls game period. It's a game that while in development they kept NGP in the forefront of their minds. It's the souls game with the best and most replay value and a bigger souls game than 1 and 3 combined.
So between this goliath of a video, your legion of other series, Dan Jones' role in getting me hooked on Critical Role, I'm pretty sure Extra Credits is just an elaborate plot on consuming my free time. Feels pretty good tho.
I absolutely love the story of Eleum Loyce, probably my favourite thing about Dark Souls 2. My all-time fav story is from DS3, but that can wait until that playthrough's done :P
Are you the next monarch? Or merely a pawn of fate? Holy fuck I got chills. Shanolotte asks you this cryptic question, knowing that you will either play in to Nashandra's hand and be defeated by her, or you will overcome her and take the throne. The story of this game is so beautifully and intricately woven, so subtle and mysterious. This is my favorite game, and even after beating it for the first time 3-4 years ago, I'm still putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and learning new things. I fucking love this game so much.
Wow, this video is incredible. Never have I seen a lore video that was as cohesive and clear as what you've done here. The lore in this game is fascinating, but the way you present it is incredibly compelling. Thanks Dan!
I gotta say, when Dark Souls 2 focuses on story Drangleic and the three kingdoms that fell before it, it is genuinely fascinating and awe-inspiring. However, it's when the other unresolved plot threads such as the Pursuers and the Baneful Queen rear their heads that Dark Souls 2's greatest weakness becomes immediately apparent. These stories, pardon the pun, are soulless. Made worse are the numerous hollow, again, pardon the puns, callbacks to concepts and elements of Dark Souls 1. From The Gutter mimicking Blighttown, to the Royal Rat Authority mimicking Sif, to the scorpion woman mimicking Quelaag, it seems like either From or Namco had some idea in mind with them, but were swiftly abandoned. I think it's this lack of focus in several parts and what seems to be a general case of quantity over quality that made Dark Souls 2 pale in comparison to its predecessor.
Hey, Dan! I know it was hard for you and James to find time to get together for these videos in the beginning of season one, but if you can you should try to get James to occasionally come on for dark souls 3 to talk about design whenever he can show up!
^ This, I wouldnt mind suprise occasional James and Dan episodes both for nostalgia and a different take on the game itself :3 always fun seeing how they bounce off eachother
Josh F Yes please. I'd love to hear him again, too. Your DS1 talk was awesome. Dan, if you're reading this, please bring him! Tell him we miss him or sth :)
Absolutely superb, Dan, thank you for this video. It's been well worth waiting for. One thing that's struck me about both lore retrospectives - damn, your storytelling voice is good. Soft, inviting and with just the right amount of flow in it to keep you very much interested. I've heard plenty of audiobooks with narrators not half as good. So...thank you.
this is like Extra History, but for Dark Souls II :) that was great! Dan, I've really enjoyed these playthroughs and the lore videos have been great at wrapping things up (especially since I've never played the games myself and I am just as blind to all of it as you are while playing them :)). Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Dan, you may be retelling stories already told, but you are damn good at it. I cannot wait to see your retrospective of DSIII, and hopefully by the time you start your playthrough, I'll have finished mine. That way, I can have two completely different experiences to ponder on while your retrospective is in the making. Keep up the great content, Dan. o/
what people dont seem to realise is that in memories you are reliving the life of whoever left them there. when fighting the giants you are vendrick, when killing alonne you are the iron king hunting him down for his abandonment and when hearing out vendrick you are probably velstaht hearing his final message to whoever may reach him
Never thought of it this way...and actually the Theory is quite nice. But one time I am not convinced here: Whose memory do we explore when we enter the memory at the place that the giant Spider used to be?
well...*oh my God!* the memory is accessed by a Crystal if I remember Corectly? Than it has to be the memory of Seath the scaleless himself....this is an amazing Theory now, thanks...I simply did not think of him here...thanks Kieran Sweeney:D
Mordalon acknowleged. the theory is not mine originaly but an apended version of vatyvidias i think. the drummond thing is good, you may not be vendrick in those one but another hero of the war. but im pretty sure about the other ones. i think its some kind of timeloop stuff like with the amulet of manus in the first one.
I've always wondered why there was 2 kings in DS2.. shouldn't a land only have 1? I know a lot of ppl said its cuz the iron keep was an old kingdom that Vendrick built his kingdom over but it didn't make sense to me. And also, in the beginning I always thought going through the portal to Betwixt was like an allegory of Us losing our humanity and memory and entering the void and waking up in to another world.
This video is amazing. The original lore retrospective is the video I usually recommend to friends that try to get a grip on dark souls lore. This one no less. These two videos are some of the most well-put together collections of dark souls lore I've ever seen. As much as I enjoy vaati and enb, no video so clearly packs the general gist, the consensus of the lore so well in a single passage. These are some of my favourite videos on youtube, I cannot wait until episode 3.
Dark Souls 2 is more of an anthology than a big story, but still a great adventure, also Dan's dramatic reading is such a relaxing voice Dark Souls 3 LP/lore breakdown is going to be pretty dope
Question for Dark Souls lore experts: why do Hollows die "for real" when you kill them? Shouldn't Vendrick just reincarnate at a bonfire? Isn't the point of the curse that they can't ever really die?
My theory here always is that they can't rise again as soon as there true soul is taken from them. So every of the Souls you gather and can keep in your Inventory is this kind of "essence of the soul" and without it the person wont rise again. So if you play normal enemies you just get these additional...let's call them outer Souls, but they keep there inner/Core souls. So they slowly gather souls again...in some way we do not know as we can't see it while resting for a unknown time at the Bonfire. But if you defeat a boss you get his Core soul as well as all the small fragments that he carried alongside with it. This may not be the whole story, but it could be a part of how someone can die for real even as a hollow. Another thing I thought about was that they don't die for real at all. They do what happens to the player: Loose all theire Souls upon death and return to the last Bonfire they rested at. But the Bonfire as stated in DS1 description of the Miracle used to return to the Bonfire is only a substitute for a Home for the undead. So maybe they return some place yet unknown to us, or simply to a bonfire way out of our paths in this world. Hope I could help^^ Another Dan
CJWproductions How do you know he doesn't reincarnate at a bonfire? He disappears just as we do when we die... perhaps the last bonfire he used is under some lava or something. x)
I wondered about that back in Dark Souls 1. After an NPC in Fire Link Shrine went hollow and died, I was expecting them to become a default enemy from that point onward, but that never happened. It would have been like a constant reminder of the people you failed to save so it's a little disappointing that they went for a gameplay aspect and made them a non-respawning mini-boss, instead of using the method that would fit with the story and make them return hollowed every time you rest at a bonfire.
Yeah I get your Point there, I myself like the theory that they are going to some bonfire we don't know about when they die so they are actually respawning but not somewhere we can see or know about it. Oh and one more thing only because they made a Choice out of Game play Reasons doesn't mean it's not worth thinking about a theory to explain it^^
CJWproductions that is a good question, and the only lore i've heard explaining it is that they do respawn, it's just that they hollow so far that they don't care anymore. those bodies lying on the ground? they're all undead who are so far gone they can't even bother to move. and as for where vendrick in particular went, remember the things that crawled from the dark into the flame at the start of DS1? those are humanity's natural state when devoid of souls. so, if vendrick is human and not undead, he simply reverted into one of those when he ditched his soul and died for real when you stabbed him. if he IS undead, he went back to his respawn point, and then sat there in his hollowed state until you linked the fire, ended the curse and that probably killed him for real.
I enjoy hearing you put all of the disparate story pieces together in videos like this, along with reviewing all the important steps in the journey. Thanks for the great video!
So it's possible that the Lost Sinner came from Elium Loyce?! The parasite that is seen on her in the cutscene is the same as the one you find in the Bed of Chaos is DS1 and Loyce was made to stop the spread and contain the Old Chaos. Is it possible that the Lost Sinner did something that went against the Ivory king? That also brings to mind that it is possible that the Ivory king was the one who built the Lost Bastille...? Man I love this stuff...
I would say it quite likely that this small bug escaped Eleaum Loice before it was build into this Fortress it is now...so maybe the Lost Sinner is one of the reasons the Frozen King decided to build this massive wall of defense^^ Just to raise some more questions here :D
Or it is from before the whole Reign of the Frozen King, and the Lost Sinner is sitting in the lost Bastile for longer than we can imagine. Strait could prove this, as he hints about being from another Kingdom that was before this one.
Akira Ishin actually I think the best theory is that the Lost Sinner is the Old Iron Kings pyromancer. the LS has tons of ties to pyromancy and the irong king used his power and ended up birthing deamons. The theory being that she created the great pyromancy spells that gave birth to the smelter deamon (there is a spell that mentions her attempting to bring flame to life) and tha her imprisonment is penance for killing her master that she loved.
Yeah thinking about it in this way it sounds like a nice Theory, maybe the Chaos bug corrupted her Pyromancy and lead to the reason why the smelter Demon turned against his creator... Somehow I dont think so, but the Idea behind this is actually worth remembering :D
Awesome video, Even though you say things I've heard before, you say them in such an emotive and thematic way that it's like hearing them for the first time, that feeling of things clicking together. Also, excellent format, it was very captivating to hear the overview of the story, then delving into detail, I appreciated you keeping the narrative, like mentioning Aldia as a stranger before we learn his name. I know you didn't cover everything, but I think you were very intelligent and thoughtful about what you included and what you chose to leave unsaid in order to focus on the driving narrative (like not mentioning Raime in the DLC section, leaving it for a Raime vs Velstat section, as that's kinda a side story to Vendrick and the old iron king/sir Alonne), ALSO, the throne room being a kiln?? i love that observation, thank you :)
I am pretty sure that Dark Souls 3 solved the Ornstein dilemma. The Ornstein we fought in Dark Souls 1 was indeed an illusion, but Smough was real. Ornstein found the Nameless King, and ditched his armour and heritage, siding with the Dragons. That much is canon. But what I think happened next is that Ornstein decided to bring down the Gods himself, in revenge for the Dragons he was tasked to slay, yet now protects. That is why he learns dark magic, which is the Gods' weakness. Dark/Occult weapons are considered God-slaying arms. It's possible that he was the reason Heide was destroyed. Maybe Gwynevere and Flan did indeed fund Heide, and Ornstein arrived to slaughter them. If you kill the Dragonrider, a servant of Vendrik, Heide's knights attack you. But if you kill Ornstein, they seem to not mind it at all.
I like that Dan and I both pretty much came to the same conclusion about the Heide's Tower are and Orny being there. It would also explain why **SPOILERS** You don't find Ornstein's weapon or armor when you revisit Anor Londo in 3. Though to be fair, I'm one of those who thinks 3's story is a hot mess, even in comparison to 2.
I like how Gwyn's linking of the fire is called the first sin. It means that everything before that was right. The dragons rule above, they are then killed by lords wielding fire and lightning, then man begins to rise, and Gwyn commits the first sin by prolonging the age of fire. Calling it the first sin makes me think of Velka, the Goddess of sin, the one who punishes those who sin. In DS1 she was the one to bring you to Lordran, so if you let the fire fade it is only because of Velka's help. (of course the same could be said of Oscar.) Many connect the birdlike creatures in the painted world to Velka, and in DS3's painted world there are more birdlike creatures, creatures that want to keep their world from stagnating. Velka can also remove your hollowing in DS3, which marks a connection between her and the curse. All this to say that I think Velka is the driving force behind the souls series, the one who started the first fire, and the only true deity in the whole series. All the others simply use a power she made, light or dark. They have the ability to disobey, to go against her plan, and continue the sin of rekindling the fire, but some day a hero will resist the allure of flame, allow it to die, and the age of man will come, allowing us to see past the Dark, to whatever Velka wants us to see.
Jesus christ Gwyn's theme song. You placed it in such a natural spot in the narrative that it hit me like a punch in the stomach. I will not spoil anything but so did fromsoft in the 3rd game, it is like the song that connects the whole trilogy, and without knowing it you used the theme in a brilliant way. Its also a melody that brings forth ambiguous themes, despair versus hope, strenght versus frailty, giving up versus keeping your resolve. Not everyone sees the beauty of the lore of DS2 since it lacks connections with the first game, most regard it as kind of a spinnof and part of it not even canon, but you recognized the common themes and how it progresses making important but not obvious parallels between lordran and drangleic, you will probably love dark souls 3. On the theories itself, i've never realized the last giant was in fact the giant king, that's awesome, and the theory about ornstein is actually not very far from what i thought myself, but since i have some more information coming from the third game i will not comment on it too much. Anyway, awesome video, its 1 hour well worth watching, it felt like a very experienced DnD dungeon master explaining the plot of some old game he was very fond of to new players. Keep up the good work and i'm looking forward to the lore video from bloodborne, because oh man that's also a god damn heavy game.
That was an FANTASTIC video. Even as someone who adores Dark Souls Lore, I learned new things! My only problem with the Ornstein theory is that if you kill Gwyndolin before you fight Ornstein and Smough, you still have to fight them even though the rest of the illusion goes away. I think it's more likely, if what you say about Ornstein leaving is true, that Anor Londo Ornstein is simply a fake. Not necessarily an illusion, but a monstrosity created to accompany Smough, who was already not the most mentally stable person, and probably wasn't too happy to be suddenly fighting alone.
This is why I love the unique way games can tell a story and build a world. Unlike a book or movie, you can hide information that must be sought and give meaning in where something is or how it looks.
I never bothered to dig this far into DSII's lore before, even though I played it through two and a half times. I'm glad I watched this, and I'm looking forward to the adventures of... Eliso? Elisu? Whatever name Dan's DS3 character ends up with.
dan. i love watching you theorize, especially knowing DS3. i want to answer your questions so badly, but you'll figure the answers out yourself eventually.
I love DS2 lore, more so than DS1. The story is loose and gives me more freedom to mold the story to my liking. Personally love the stories of the dlc kings. Now I haven't watched the entire video but I would like to throw out some of my ideas that aren't touched upon by large lore contributers. The Drakeblood Knights were sent or led to Shulva by Vendrick or Aldia. Yorgh their captain wears a ring with Drangleic crest. In the large mural in Shulva, it depicts the Kings discovery of the Dragon, and dead center is a Dragon Egg. This very egg is held in Aldias possession at Dragon Shrine, overlooked by the exact same mural. Sunken King and his people were Sun Bros. Not only are they adept miracle users but they also scorned sorcery. Velstadt, originally a Knight of Shulva, gives a miracle known by Sun Bros. The Sun Bro shrine was dug up alongside a great poison and dual Falchon wielding skeletons. Sunken King is Pharros who is the Rotten. The Sunken King can be defined by the Sin of Sloth, and his inactions with the surface world may have caused this catastrophic event. In repentance, he took a fake name to hide his identity and took to helping the ill fortunate. Shulva was known for great technological advances and Pharros was known for his perplexing contraptions. The Rotten had a knack for creating those Posion spitting statues also found in Shulva, these statues are also found in Doors of Pharros suggesting Pharros created these statues, also implying Pharros came from Shulva. If you think carefully the statues of a poison spitting maiden could represent... Elana perhaps. The Rotten is guarding the entrance to Shulva. The Rotten drops a Pharros lockstone if you chop off his lead. The Mask of Pharros, is depicting the face of a morning king, perhaps of the Sunken King. The traitor spoke of by the Rat King is the Sunken King, and in the Sunken King's repentance as Pharros, he tried to repent by helping the rats. Pharros is the one the Rat King speaks highly of when he speaks of the selfless human. I got much more, for the other kings but no time to write it. Like how it was the Iron King who killed Alonne, and how the Ivory King is actually a woman. Maybe later.
The big theory of Ornstein that I find most people go for is this. The Ornstein in Anor Londo is fake, but the Smough at Anor Londo is real, and knows that everything is an illusion, but does not care because he wanted to rank among the nights and Gwyndolin gave him that chance. He can kill Ornstein so easily in the second phase of the boss fight because he knows the truth. As for Ornstein, he left to follow the Nameless King when he was exiled. You can find Ornstein’s armor outside of the arena where the Nameless King is fought. The theory then goes on to say that Ornstein is the dragon of storms that nameless king rides upon in the battle.
Dan, thank you for making this video. I have played DS2 maybe 6 or 7 times by now, and still had not grasped the story as well as you portrayed it in this video. I learned a lot and have gained a new appreciation for this game thanks to your efforts. It is somewhat a testament to the game's scattershot storytelling, but moreso a testament to your fine research and hard work. While I still prefer the slightly simpler but more emotionally resonant story of DS1, and consider its storytelling more cohesive and thus more compelling, I really do appreciate the narrative of DS2. It is very obvious to me now that despite its shortcomings, a lot of work was put into crafting a good story in DS2. It is just a shame it took From's B-Team two tries to make a good story. Those who played the game on release really got the short end of the stick on more than one front, and it really demonstrates how Scholar is really the only edition someone can justifiably recommend to new players. In any case, thank you for the great work Dan. I won't be watching season 3 until I play DS3 for myself, but I look forward to the day I can catch up and experience the conclusion to the trilogy alongside you!
I love this. Adore this! You sir have said everything that I have been pushing down the communities throat on forums since DkS2 DLCs. You are amazing. THANK YOU, keep up the amazing work!
Your observation on the potential of illusions of Ornstein and Smough is one I came to as well, though mine was not through his appearance in DS2 but instead on thinking of the nature of Anor Londo's illusion which constructs the demons, silver knights, and giant sentinels. On thinking on it, I concluded that seeing as how the princess and her world were an illusion, all her guardians, including the dynamic duo, were as well, since true Anor Londo is completely empty save for the giant smith and members of Gwyndolin's Dark Moon Covenant. Every enemy is just a construct of Gwyndolins. If you could dispel Gwynevere before fighting them, I think they would vanish as well.
A shame there's only so much you can touch upon in one video, because the story of Velstadt and Raime is one of my favorite of all time. A knight striking down his equal, who was practically like a brother to him, out of his blind loyalty for his lord. Failing to save his king not once, but twice, from a child of dark, because he refused to believe his king could be wrong. A pretty powerful tale, shame it didn't make it into the video in its full potential. Other then that, amazing recap and it's actually inspiring me to play through DS2 again.
Could Manus be a then corrupt form of Vendrick(idk if thats correct spelling) searching for what he lost being Nashandra. Searching for the broken pendant of what was seen to be beauty at first glace. Corruption then took his place searching for not only power, but a connection to Nashandra. Would also explain the cause of corruption, and the pursuers in the first game. Vendrick also could of made the Undead asylum later "renamed" (it seems names are pretty loose(maybe due to time travel or because the fact players are never name themselves same thing?)) edit:Old dragonslayer maybe wasn't the "real" version of the "dream" Ornstein and Smough, but they were the better version THAT YOU (not the player but character) in the future employed. In honor of the knight he fought he gave Ornstein a gold set of armor, and a companion.
Smough's set in DS3 almost confirms that the Ornstein we originally fought was an illusion. It says Smough was the last knight in Anor Londo. Ornstein was tasked with the protection of Gwynevere so yeah, it is likely that he accompanied her to wherever she went.
Great job here Dan...I literately cried at the Frozen Kings part... You really managed to piece it together in a way that fitted the game, and made it in such a way that it is a blast listening to it. All your Work and time that went into this Video...it really shows and I am so glad you did this. Thanks for taking all this work on your shoulders. Greetings from Germany Another Dan PS: Did you slow down part of the Video footage in order to better fit the pacing of this Lore video? (seemed like it for me)
Seems to me that Dark Souls 1 was a creation myth, all Gods and Legendary Heroes, while Dark Souls 2 is a medieval epic, of Kings and Grand Armies. Bloodborne is a Victorian Gothic Horror Novel, all Tragic Illness and Uncleanliness. Wonder what Dark Souls 3 will be like?
Upsettingly, almost none of the lore from Dark Souls 2 matters cause Dark Souls 3 clings so TIGHTLY to Dark Souls 1 that it almost has no identity of its own.
Waw, I got a new respect for DS. While the concept of the story isn't new. The way it is told (at least from what Dan says) is really good and I will say is one of the best tales of the humanity. Now I'm even more excited that DS remastered is coming to the Switch. And I hope DS 2 and 3 will follow up someday.
By the time you rolled around to actually discussing the First Sin, I was already emotionally fragile. AND THEN YOU HIT ME WITH GWYN'S THEME. DAMMIT DAN. That piece is like Kryptonite to me -- I have a hard enough time keeping from crying hearing it when I'm NOT emotionally strung out from a ton of revelations. GAAH. ...in all seriousness, though, this is a wonderful summation of everything you've seen and done. Though I do have to wonder -- from a gameplay perspective, would wearing Vendrick's blessed crown have kept Nashandra from being able to curse you six ways from Sunday? Does protection from Hollowing extend to protection from the Curse status effect? ...I ask because I miiiiiiiight have screamed at the screen a little during your Nashandra fight for Elisa to 'PUT THE F**ING CROWN ON ALREADY FLAME ALMIGHTY." Maybe. It especially interests me that not all the shards of Manus were evil. Nashandra definitely qualified, and Elana as well, but more because of their actions rather than what they represented (desire and anger aren't evil unless taken to excess). Nadalia's only real crime is loneliness -- she arrived after all the catastrophes had befallen the Iron Kingdom, and was left with nothing and no one except that which she brought back herself. And Alsanna? Alsanna interests me the most. As a Child of Dark, the Flame of Chaos would be absolute anathema to her -- fire run rampant, burning out of control. So when the Ivory King made it his mission to protect his kingdom from it, of course she volunteered to help out -- and in a kind of reverse Beauty-and-the-Beast scenario, ended up seeming to reform while attenpting to halt the spread of Izalith's legacy. Had she not all but plainly stated she was a Child of Dark, I wouldn't have believed it. There's so much else to talk about that my brain is swimming, but those are the parts I felt most connected to. Thanks for this retrospective, and for Let's Playing the Dark Souls games for those of us who lack the gaming chops to pull it off ourselves.
The overarching themes of DS2, with the futility of linking/ignoring the flame are very important in understanding the ending of DS3. I'll not spoil anything in DS3 but I feel that Aldia was somewhat mistaken as the crown you earn is somewhat of a joke. It doesn't actually cure hollowing, merely halts it and only for one person at that. The player character in DS2 by walking away is in essence choosing 'The End of Fire' ending from DS1 as the flame still exists even if practically faded. Hopefully we'll get something a little more concrete in terms of the DS2 influence in The Ringed City and I think we will as Earthern Peak is making a return (although probably in name only). If you read this Dan I'd recommend thinking about the flame as something which needs to be usurped or ripped away to break the cycle, that should help when it comes to interpreting events in DS3 and how good/bad the various endings are.
I have a strong feeling that when the final piece of the Dark Souls story drops, we'll look back on Dark Souls 2 with greater interest. Even now, with what little we have, I get the sense that Dark Souls 2 is going to give us the context to really understand Dark Souls 3. Thanks for doing these man, you da tops.
finally catch up, ive watched all of the Side Quest video until this point, it was fascinating cant wait until Dan finished DSIII and another Lore Retrospective again
Okay so I have theory. Though it may have some flaws in the logic but, what if dark souls 2 takes place after three? The end choice of a new age of dark and how the embers will still emerge makes me wonder if ds2 is the latest age of fire. The way events in 1 and 3 correlate so well, as well as miniscule details as how you encounter the knight Alva in 3 but only buy his armour in 2 kind of bring this idea to mind. It's just a thought/rambling
Joshua Moscicki You are saying that this is after Dark Souls 2??!? That would be amazing, but wouldn't it not be this, because the age of Dark is possible in Dark Souls 3.
The game is far more connected lore wise than you think, some examples: - Drakeblood knights are from Heide based on their shield and were allied with Drangleic/Vendrick (Yorgh has symbol of Drangleic on his ring), Vendrick probably send them to Shulva. - Old knights of Heide are probably from Shulva. Their armor style is very similar to Aztec and Shulva has that kind of architecture. The reason why they are at Heide is probably because Shulva lauched counter invasion in the past, which might be one of the reasons why Heide is in ruins. - Harvest valley posion is from Sinh, the poison transformed Mytha to a serpent, which is imperfect dragon.
Finally beat souls 2 and all the dlcs and said "yes! I did it". In beating souls 2 I beat every souls game. Then I watch this video and say... "Damn there is much I haven't done." Good news is I''m in NGP as we speak. EXCELLENT video and excellent research!
Yo Dan, in case you hadn't heard yet, the last dlc of DS3 is coming out on March 28th. About a month after that on April 21st is when fromsoft is gonna release their definitive edition of the game with the two dlcs pre-bundled.
There's allot that Dark Souls teaches us about storytelling in games, and even in general. It's a lesson that, sure, could be learned elsewhere, but I say it's a place as good as any. There's something about the first game in particular that the other two games are missing, not that Souls 2 and 3 are bad games or even bad stories, they're just not the same. With Dark Souls everything is told in legends (that much is true throughout the series), but in DS1 it's something that seems the strongest. It's very much like real world history, told through legends, recorded accounts, and items lost in time. Dark souls is definitely a game that offers something to storytelling as a whole, an experience that keeps it's own in gaming and otherwise.
Here's hoping Aldia gets a shout out in the final Dark Souls III DLC. Dark Souls II doesn't get enough credit for the interesting concepts it introduced. Granted, they weren't executed very well. But there are complex characters and concepts that add a lot of depth to the experience. Dark Souls III is honestly my favorite of the series, despite its over-reliance on the first game's concepts. Add in some answers to the questions asked in the second game, and it might become one of my favorite games ever. Give us closure, Lord Miyazaki.
Dan's Dark Soul playthroughs are the best playthroughs of anything I've ever watched. The nostalgia... BTW, Dan, since you've now seen the alternate ending introduced in Scholar and have learned of the use of the blessed crowns, what are your thoughts on the ending? I personally felt the whole new ending endeavour with the crowns turned the game from mostly ok to outright awesome.
I find it a bit appalling that there was only one ending in the base game. Aldia's absence in general is bizarre. It must have been so disappointing for people who picked it up on release only to find that they had to buy a revamped second version of the game just to get the second ending. That's one of the reasons why I understand how people who played DS2 before Scholar disliked the game--stuff like Matthewmatosis' critique of DS2's story makes so much sense when you consider how incomplete and scattershot the base game was. People forget how poorly the game's story played out without the Scholar edition's improvements. The way Namco and From's B-Team handled that debacle was also extremely unfortunate. That being said, Scholar does close up a lot of the narrative gaps. It's just a damn shame it took them two tries to get it right. And still, the storytelling of the game suffers for it, even in the Scholar edition. There's a real reason why people needed to consult lore videos and in-depth analyses to even understand what was going on in DS2, moreso than with DS1. If Fromsoft had gotten it right the first time, they might have been able to write better dialogue, stitch together more of the short stories into a cohesive canvas, flesh out the barebones NPC quests, and made the experience more clear and enjoyable overall. As it stands, even the improved Scholar edition can't fix every mistake in the base game's story, no matter how many abstract and overly roundabout monologues they give Aldia. Now that I've watched Dan's video and gotten a better handle on the story, I can appreciate it. It's a cool story. It just plays out poorly in the game itself, because even the Scholar improvements couldn't 100% fix what was previously broken/incomplete.
Great video! I really appreciate Your respect for the story, game, and other "Lore Translators". Also, solid sense of humor! Thank You for Your content!
Hey Dan. Great video, well worth the wait. In case you're looking for suggestions for other games to play, I've been playing Nioh on PS4 and I have to say, it's pretty rad. A lot of the systems are very reminiscent of a Dark Demon Blood Souls game, while making everything new and different with some very interesting crafting options. I'm only a few hours in, maybe about 10 with intense exploration and a fair amount of deaths, but I'd recommend it to anyone with a PS4 who likes Blood Souls type game-play.
It is widely theorized that while lordran was falling apart that Ornstein went looking for Gwynt's banished son in hopes that he could help save thing kingdom.
Your Orenstein theory was so close, and yet so far. You'll find the truth later in Dark Souls III so look out for that. Also it's my personal theory that Heide and it's cathedral of Blue were built by Gwyndolin (remember he was an optional boss), who abandoned Anor Londo after the Chosen Undead rekindled the First Flame, taking his illusion of Orenstein with him. In addition, I believe the Way of Blue is a religion that worships Gwyndolin, similar to Gwyn's way of Blue, with the Blue Sentinels replacing Gwyndolins Dark Moon Knights.
Wow! This video was so good that it has made me want to play DS2 for the first time since DS3 came out last year. Luckily, the Return to Drangleic event is starting very soon :-)
So... for all these years we may have just been getting mulched by an ILLUSION of pikachu and snorlax. That's one of the most Dark Souls things I've ever heard
Dan. Seriously - EXCELLENT video. I know you stand on the shoulders of giants, but that is no reason to undersell your storytelling ability. Well done, mate.
Agreed, Great video looking forward to the Dark Souls 3 series
Honestly said he is one of like 3 Guys on UA-cam which I enjoy Watching Gameplay Videos.
I am really eager to see Dark Souls 3.
Actually I would love seeing him Play other Games as well from the Tales Series to the Witcher Series or even Baldurs Gate :)
But if anything. His Story Telling Ability. Is Excellent. James might be the Writer behind alot of his Scripts in Extra Credits. But in actually telling the Stories. Dan is much Superior. (Sorry James but seriously. No matter how good you are as an Writer and Designer. You just aint very exciting to Listen to :P ... well at least for me ^^ Tastes are different after all ^^)
Jimmy Mullen The Giant King Would be proud of all of us discovering the truth.
12:25
Dan's dramatic voice: ...we free Lost Sinner from her tortured existence...
Sellsword Luet in the background: we killed her, we killed her we killed her, yaaaay!!!
Yeah, Sellsword Luet always feelt like he was a Parody of stupid looking PvP builds in my eyes^^
And that makes them amazing. They are the crazy awesome companion
Its actually a very good build, lacks range, but its pretty solid.
Lo hicimos
For everyone interested in DSII:
There is an event planned from Feb. 25th to March 11th, which will populate the servers, enabling jolly cooperation.
SashaSexyfur that's awesome. I'm done with DSII, but I know some people haven't gotten around to it. do you mind pointing me to some details about said event? I'd love to get involved
Here's an article from PC Gamer about it. www.pcgamer.com/dark-souls-2-community-plans-to-flood-the-servers-with-new-and-returning-players/
Alas I don't have SotFS but I have recently been doing a dagger-only run
How jolly?
1un4cy Daggers are fantastic in 2. Dual-daggers was my easiest playthrough, and versitile and strong enough that I even had 2 separate dual-dagger PvP builds.
Sadly I made the mistake of assuming 3 would have similarly good balance. My dagger character did not go well to say the least.
Can we get a lore retrospective of Bloodborne?! I know Dan's already played through that one. That's something I would love to see!
Yeah, Ivory King is definitely my favourite DLC. Also, it's been known before DS3 that Ornstein in Anor Londo is just a very convincing illusion and that only Smough is real; that Ornstein moved somewhere else.
While Dark Souls 2 is far less cohesive and deep than its predecessor, I believe there is very beautiful thematic bond tying all those disperse stories. The loose idea of Want, of making a journey to achieve one's desires, is what drives every character in very different ways, and behind all of those there is a hope, a hope for finding oneself, for gaining power, for finding answers. The monarch is to find hope and by doing so they will give it to those who are behind them, they shall find strengh and others will follow, their hearts lit with wishes for a better future.
But there is no future, the future is the past as the eternal circle repeats again and again until the end of times. So there will be those who desire more than being able to choose how to follow fate, those who want to be able to reject it and build their own, even at the expense of others. Those who want to be free from the curse of life, the curse of want.
We become at the ending the true monarch, in a quest for answers we fight and kill and die again and again, we become a symbol for our compatriots, giving them a reason to live, a reason to fight and a reason to want. We become hope for them as we hope for gaining our answers, for answers that never came. We make choices that shake the world and most of them do actually nothing. Maybe there is truly no meaning? Maybe Aldia was right and everything is a lie and an illusion?
Maybe the truth is, there is no answers, no explanation, no big reveal. Maybe we are subject to be pawns in an eternal game between fire and dark with no end and we cannot do anything about it. Maybe the happiness and tears and anger and peace and everything we felt and thought in our feeble forms is both everything it is and everything it needs to be. Maybe there is no destiny to be found, but isn't the act of choosing, the act of weighting that choice and embracing its consequences, exactly what a true monarch would do?
Indeed, thats why i think DS2 is in fact more lovecraftian than bloodborne, not in theme or in style, but it incarnates existential horror in a much mor profound way. I'm not bashing BB of course, its a wonderfull game in many aspects, maybe even more than the DS series, but the lore elements are not quite there.
I've always had a special spot in my heart for Dark Souls II even though most people find it inferior to DS1 and DS3. You put that feeling into words so eloquently.
Paulo Mangano I don't understand how you can say "the lore elements are just not there" for Bloodbornes cosmic terror. Could you elaborate? Genuinely interested ..
Well the lore elements from bloodborne are very reminiscent of lovecraft of course, but look at the EC video called "why games do cthulhu wrong" or something in that line. Killing eldritch themed creatures may make the game lovecraftian themed, but not exactly lovecraftian horror styled, because lovecraftian horror is not about the creatures themselves, its about facing the inabillity to escape certain demise.
Dark souls is this kind of story, you cant escape hollowing, you cant escape the dark age, you can struggle to push it back a little bit, another cycle, another respawn, but you cant prevent it, the same way you can delay cthulhu's awakening, you can fight his cultists, but you cant prevent him from destroying everything.
I love you for this Dan, these 2 videos are among my favorite videos on all of youtube. I don't know what it is about them, they're just so cozy. It's like sitting around a bonfire at night, telling each other stories. It's so true to the spirit of the games.
Nebbus Feeling the same!
Can't wait til Dan plays DS3 and reaches *SPOILER* where *SPOILER* and how he/she/it/they *SPOILER*('s) the *SPOILER* from when he *SPOILER* in *SPOILER*
Sketch McArthur on the other hand i want to see his reaction to SPOILER in SPOILER peak
I can't wait until he sees the part with the two SPOILERs that are standing across from a (SPOILER) and he tries in vain to figure out (SPOILER) when its as (SPOILER) (SPOILER) (SPOILER) and the rage will be glorius.
Sketch McArthur spoiler warning, jesus. fuck it, fine! just give the whole game away why not! tell him the final boss is *SPOILER*, and why it's amazing when they *SPOILER*!
Why doesn't it do anything when i click on the spoiler?
+0MidnighttheDragon0 Kidding aside, I feel he might need some help towards the end so he doesn't miss stuff. I mean I won't outright tell him, but I'll be sure to warn him in advance to be very adamant about trying to find secret places and stuff and will be giving him some hints when the time comes.
Raime saw what was happening with Nashandra but Velstadt was blinded by his loyalty to Vendrick despite being from Shulva and doubtless knowing what happened there.
PonzooonTheGreat Still Raime was corrupted by evil.
I suppose it just goes to show how alluring the dark can be
@@thanatoast The Dark is also comforting for some.
Seeker of fire. Bearer of the curse. What stories lie behind Dark Souls II and the adventures of Elisa? Watch Dan's Lore Retrospective!
PLUS! Vote for Extra Credits in the Shorty Awards up to 3 times per day: shortyawards.com/9th/extracreditz
Bearer, seek, seek, lest!
I know you said in the video that you plan to do a playthrough of dark souls 3, but do you ever think, either after dark souls 3 or in the form of Dan Jones, that Extra Play will play through Demons Souls? As the first of the series, it holds a LOT of material that ultimately becomes the rest of the series, and it would be awesome to watch you guys play through it and connect the inspirational dots.
I dont know why but I love listening to dan explain the lore
Yo Dan, any chance of a Demon's Soul playthrough?
Extra Play I still think that Dan and James should sit together one day to just discuss the design of the game. Where is succeeds and where it fails. I really wish that they would do that. I like how the first Dark Souls play through was initially about the design of the game.
this is my favorite souls game lore wise
My favorite souls game period. It's a game that while in development they kept NGP in the forefront of their minds. It's the souls game with the best and most replay value and a bigger souls game than 1 and 3 combined.
Hi Dan, if you read this, remember to listen to the intro song (~1.5 min) of DS3 before starting it. It's quite inspiring.
So between this goliath of a video, your legion of other series, Dan Jones' role in getting me hooked on Critical Role, I'm pretty sure Extra Credits is just an elaborate plot on consuming my free time.
Feels pretty good tho.
You and me both.
To be fair, Critical Role is pretty amazing. (And so is D&D in general if you're lucky enough to find a quality group.)
Ungoliant'sShadow wait how did Dan get you into Critical Role? I love CR but I guess I missed that part.
Critical role is the best.
He tweeted about it and I got curious. And that's about it.
peffr: 21.03.17: caught up at episode 90
I absolutely love the story of Eleum Loyce, probably my favourite thing about Dark Souls 2. My all-time fav story is from DS3, but that can wait until that playthrough's done :P
This is easily the best lore compilation for DS2 I've seen
This made me appreciate Dark Souls II a whole lot more.
Are you the next monarch? Or merely a pawn of fate? Holy fuck I got chills. Shanolotte asks you this cryptic question, knowing that you will either play in to Nashandra's hand and be defeated by her, or you will overcome her and take the throne. The story of this game is so beautifully and intricately woven, so subtle and mysterious. This is my favorite game, and even after beating it for the first time 3-4 years ago, I'm still putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and learning new things. I fucking love this game so much.
Wow, this video is incredible. Never have I seen a lore video that was as cohesive and clear as what you've done here. The lore in this game is fascinating, but the way you present it is incredibly compelling. Thanks Dan!
I gotta say, when Dark Souls 2 focuses on story Drangleic and the three kingdoms that fell before it, it is genuinely fascinating and awe-inspiring. However, it's when the other unresolved plot threads such as the Pursuers and the Baneful Queen rear their heads that Dark Souls 2's greatest weakness becomes immediately apparent. These stories, pardon the pun, are soulless. Made worse are the numerous hollow, again, pardon the puns, callbacks to concepts and elements of Dark Souls 1. From The Gutter mimicking Blighttown, to the Royal Rat Authority mimicking Sif, to the scorpion woman mimicking Quelaag, it seems like either From or Namco had some idea in mind with them, but were swiftly abandoned. I think it's this lack of focus in several parts and what seems to be a general case of quantity over quality that made Dark Souls 2 pale in comparison to its predecessor.
lol
Blightown hasn't got a mistress.
I forgot about that covenant D:
Still, she hasn't got a Garl Vinland.
BS poison areas have always been a staple in the souls series, starting with the valley of defilement in demon souls.
Hey, Dan! I know it was hard for you and James to find time to get together for these videos in the beginning of season one, but if you can you should try to get James to occasionally come on for dark souls 3 to talk about design whenever he can show up!
^ This, I wouldnt mind suprise occasional James and Dan episodes both for nostalgia and a different take on the game itself :3 always fun seeing how they bounce off eachother
Josh F Yes please. I'd love to hear him again, too.
Your DS1 talk was awesome. Dan, if you're reading this, please bring him! Tell him we miss him or sth :)
Absolutely superb, Dan, thank you for this video. It's been well worth waiting for. One thing that's struck me about both lore retrospectives - damn, your storytelling voice is good. Soft, inviting and with just the right amount of flow in it to keep you very much interested. I've heard plenty of audiobooks with narrators not half as good. So...thank you.
this is like Extra History, but for Dark Souls II :)
that was great! Dan, I've really enjoyed these playthroughs and the lore videos have been great at wrapping things up (especially since I've never played the games myself and I am just as blind to all of it as you are while playing them :)).
Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Dan, you may be retelling stories already told, but you are damn good at it. I cannot wait to see your retrospective of DSIII, and hopefully by the time you start your playthrough, I'll have finished mine. That way, I can have two completely different experiences to ponder on while your retrospective is in the making.
Keep up the great content, Dan. o/
I immediately clicked off of what I was doing to watch this! You're great Dan! Here's to more Dark Souls!
what people dont seem to realise is that in memories you are reliving the life of whoever left them there. when fighting the giants you are vendrick, when killing alonne you are the iron king hunting him down for his abandonment and when hearing out vendrick you are probably velstaht hearing his final message to whoever may reach him
Never thought of it this way...and actually the Theory is quite nice. But one time I am not convinced here:
Whose memory do we explore when we enter the memory at the place that the giant Spider used to be?
Master of Suicide possibly a silver knight maybe Lord Gywn or even seath the scaleless
well...*oh my God!* the memory is accessed by a Crystal if I remember Corectly? Than it has to be the memory of Seath the scaleless himself....this is an amazing Theory now, thanks...I simply did not think of him here...thanks Kieran Sweeney:D
Master of Suicide don't worry about it, happy to be of help
Mordalon acknowleged. the theory is not mine originaly but an apended version of vatyvidias i think. the drummond thing is good, you may not be vendrick in those one but another hero of the war. but im pretty sure about the other ones. i think its some kind of timeloop stuff like with the amulet of manus in the first one.
I've always wondered why there was 2 kings in DS2.. shouldn't a land only have 1? I know a lot of ppl said its cuz the iron keep was an old kingdom that Vendrick built his kingdom over but it didn't make sense to me. And also, in the beginning I always thought going through the portal to Betwixt was like an allegory of Us losing our humanity and memory and entering the void and waking up in to another world.
The storytelling is absolutely amazing in this video. I LOVED every second of it!
I cant wait to hear your reflections on DS 3!
This video is amazing. The original lore retrospective is the video I usually recommend to friends that try to get a grip on dark souls lore. This one no less.
These two videos are some of the most well-put together collections of dark souls lore I've ever seen. As much as I enjoy vaati and enb, no video so clearly packs the general gist, the consensus of the lore so well in a single passage. These are some of my favourite videos on youtube, I cannot wait until episode 3.
Dark Souls 2 is more of an anthology than a big story, but still a great adventure, also Dan's dramatic reading is such a relaxing voice
Dark Souls 3 LP/lore breakdown is going to be pretty dope
Question for Dark Souls lore experts: why do Hollows die "for real" when you kill them? Shouldn't Vendrick just reincarnate at a bonfire? Isn't the point of the curse that they can't ever really die?
My theory here always is that they can't rise again as soon as there true soul is taken from them. So every of the Souls you gather and can keep in your Inventory is this kind of "essence of the soul" and without it the person wont rise again. So if you play normal enemies you just get these additional...let's call them outer Souls, but they keep there inner/Core souls. So they slowly gather souls again...in some way we do not know as we can't see it while resting for a unknown time at the Bonfire. But if you defeat a boss you get his Core soul as well as all the small fragments that he carried alongside with it.
This may not be the whole story, but it could be a part of how someone can die for real even as a hollow.
Another thing I thought about was that they don't die for real at all. They do what happens to the player: Loose all theire Souls upon death and return to the last Bonfire they rested at. But the Bonfire as stated in DS1 description of the Miracle used to return to the Bonfire is only a substitute for a Home for the undead. So maybe they return some place yet unknown to us, or simply to a bonfire way out of our paths in this world.
Hope I could help^^
Another Dan
CJWproductions How do you know he doesn't reincarnate at a bonfire?
He disappears just as we do when we die... perhaps the last bonfire he used is under some lava or something. x)
I wondered about that back in Dark Souls 1. After an NPC in Fire Link Shrine went hollow and died, I was expecting them to become a default enemy from that point onward, but that never happened. It would have been like a constant reminder of the people you failed to save so it's a little disappointing that they went for a gameplay aspect and made them a non-respawning mini-boss, instead of using the method that would fit with the story and make them return hollowed every time you rest at a bonfire.
Yeah I get your Point there, I myself like the theory that they are going to some bonfire we don't know about when they die so they are actually respawning but not somewhere we can see or know about it.
Oh and one more thing only because they made a Choice out of Game play Reasons doesn't mean it's not worth thinking about a theory to explain it^^
CJWproductions that is a good question, and the only lore i've heard explaining it is that they do respawn, it's just that they hollow so far that they don't care anymore. those bodies lying on the ground? they're all undead who are so far gone they can't even bother to move.
and as for where vendrick in particular went, remember the things that crawled from the dark into the flame at the start of DS1? those are humanity's natural state when devoid of souls. so, if vendrick is human and not undead, he simply reverted into one of those when he ditched his soul and died for real when you stabbed him. if he IS undead, he went back to his respawn point, and then sat there in his hollowed state until you linked the fire, ended the curse and that probably killed him for real.
Can I get some Side quest season 3 hype?!
HELL YEAH! *Jumps onto the Hype Train*
Master of Suicide Choo Choo!
Choo choo
Yes, indeed!
There are NO BREAKS on the HYPE TRAIN!!!
I really enjoyed this whole playthrough and the lore video at the end was a great way to wrap it up. Well done all round.
This is the first episode i had to wait for, been binge watching the series the past few months. Can't wait for the Dark Souls 3 playthrough!
I enjoy hearing you put all of the disparate story pieces together in videos like this, along with reviewing all the important steps in the journey. Thanks for the great video!
So it's possible that the Lost Sinner came from Elium Loyce?! The parasite that is seen on her in the cutscene is the same as the one you find in the Bed of Chaos is DS1 and Loyce was made to stop the spread and contain the Old Chaos. Is it possible that the Lost Sinner did something that went against the Ivory king? That also brings to mind that it is possible that the Ivory king was the one who built the Lost Bastille...? Man I love this stuff...
I would say it quite likely that this small bug escaped Eleaum Loice before it was build into this Fortress it is now...so maybe the Lost Sinner is one of the reasons the Frozen King decided to build this massive wall of defense^^
Just to raise some more questions here :D
Master of Suicide or they caught the bug during the building of the wall, while the people were escaping
Or it is from before the whole Reign of the Frozen King, and the Lost Sinner is sitting in the lost Bastile for longer than we can imagine. Strait could prove this, as he hints about being from another Kingdom that was before this one.
Akira Ishin actually I think the best theory is that the Lost Sinner is the Old Iron Kings pyromancer. the LS has tons of ties to pyromancy and the irong king used his power and ended up birthing deamons.
The theory being that she created the great pyromancy spells that gave birth to the smelter deamon (there is a spell that mentions her attempting to bring flame to life) and tha her imprisonment is penance for killing her master that she loved.
Yeah thinking about it in this way it sounds like a nice Theory, maybe the Chaos bug corrupted her Pyromancy and lead to the reason why the smelter Demon turned against his creator...
Somehow I dont think so, but the Idea behind this is actually worth remembering :D
I have heard tons of lore videos but this one really knits the story of DS2 together really well.
oh fuck you're going to love DS3
Awesome video, Even though you say things I've heard before, you say them in such an emotive and thematic way that it's like hearing them for the first time, that feeling of things clicking together. Also, excellent format, it was very captivating to hear the overview of the story, then delving into detail, I appreciated you keeping the narrative, like mentioning Aldia as a stranger before we learn his name. I know you didn't cover everything, but I think you were very intelligent and thoughtful about what you included and what you chose to leave unsaid in order to focus on the driving narrative (like not mentioning Raime in the DLC section, leaving it for a Raime vs Velstat section, as that's kinda a side story to Vendrick and the old iron king/sir Alonne), ALSO, the throne room being a kiln?? i love that observation, thank you :)
I am pretty sure that Dark Souls 3 solved the Ornstein dilemma. The Ornstein we fought in Dark Souls 1 was indeed an illusion, but Smough was real. Ornstein found the Nameless King, and ditched his armour and heritage, siding with the Dragons. That much is canon.
But what I think happened next is that Ornstein decided to bring down the Gods himself, in revenge for the Dragons he was tasked to slay, yet now protects. That is why he learns dark magic, which is the Gods' weakness. Dark/Occult weapons are considered God-slaying arms. It's possible that he was the reason Heide was destroyed. Maybe Gwynevere and Flan did indeed fund Heide, and Ornstein arrived to slaughter them. If you kill the Dragonrider, a servant of Vendrik, Heide's knights attack you. But if you kill Ornstein, they seem to not mind it at all.
I like that Dan and I both pretty much came to the same conclusion about the Heide's Tower are and Orny being there. It would also explain why **SPOILERS**
You don't find Ornstein's weapon or armor when you revisit Anor Londo in 3. Though to be fair, I'm one of those who thinks 3's story is a hot mess, even in comparison to 2.
That's because you can find his Armor in Archdragon Peak.
I like how Gwyn's linking of the fire is called the first sin. It means that everything before that was right. The dragons rule above, they are then killed by lords wielding fire and lightning, then man begins to rise, and Gwyn commits the first sin by prolonging the age of fire. Calling it the first sin makes me think of Velka, the Goddess of sin, the one who punishes those who sin.
In DS1 she was the one to bring you to Lordran, so if you let the fire fade it is only because of Velka's help. (of course the same could be said of Oscar.) Many connect the birdlike creatures in the painted world to Velka, and in DS3's painted world there are more birdlike creatures, creatures that want to keep their world from stagnating. Velka can also remove your hollowing in DS3, which marks a connection between her and the curse.
All this to say that I think Velka is the driving force behind the souls series, the one who started the first fire, and the only true deity in the whole series. All the others simply use a power she made, light or dark. They have the ability to disobey, to go against her plan, and continue the sin of rekindling the fire, but some day a hero will resist the allure of flame, allow it to die, and the age of man will come, allowing us to see past the Dark, to whatever Velka wants us to see.
Jesus christ Gwyn's theme song.
You placed it in such a natural spot in the narrative that it hit me like a punch in the stomach. I will not spoil anything but so did fromsoft in the 3rd game, it is like the song that connects the whole trilogy, and without knowing it you used the theme in a brilliant way. Its also a melody that brings forth ambiguous themes, despair versus hope, strenght versus frailty, giving up versus keeping your resolve.
Not everyone sees the beauty of the lore of DS2 since it lacks connections with the first game, most regard it as kind of a spinnof and part of it not even canon, but you recognized the common themes and how it progresses making important but not obvious parallels between lordran and drangleic, you will probably love dark souls 3.
On the theories itself, i've never realized the last giant was in fact the giant king, that's awesome, and the theory about ornstein is actually not very far from what i thought myself, but since i have some more information coming from the third game i will not comment on it too much.
Anyway, awesome video, its 1 hour well worth watching, it felt like a very experienced DnD dungeon master explaining the plot of some old game he was very fond of to new players.
Keep up the good work and i'm looking forward to the lore video from bloodborne, because oh man that's also a god damn heavy game.
I gasped out loud when I saw this. Fucking loved your first one, Dan. Can't wait to see you play #3!
Dan, that was Fantastic! Thank you for such a great wrap up. I am SO READY for Season 3!
That was an FANTASTIC video. Even as someone who adores Dark Souls Lore, I learned new things!
My only problem with the Ornstein theory is that if you kill Gwyndolin before you fight Ornstein and Smough, you still have to fight them even though the rest of the illusion goes away. I think it's more likely, if what you say about Ornstein leaving is true, that Anor Londo Ornstein is simply a fake. Not necessarily an illusion, but a monstrosity created to accompany Smough, who was already not the most mentally stable person, and probably wasn't too happy to be suddenly fighting alone.
This is why I love the unique way games can tell a story and build a world. Unlike a book or movie, you can hide information that must be sought and give meaning in where something is or how it looks.
I never bothered to dig this far into DSII's lore before, even though I played it through two and a half times. I'm glad I watched this, and I'm looking forward to the adventures of... Eliso? Elisu? Whatever name Dan's DS3 character ends up with.
dan. i love watching you theorize, especially knowing DS3. i want to answer your questions so badly, but you'll figure the answers out yourself eventually.
I love DS2 lore, more so than DS1. The story is loose and gives me more freedom to mold the story to my liking. Personally love the stories of the dlc kings.
Now I haven't watched the entire video but I would like to throw out some of my ideas that aren't touched upon by large lore contributers.
The Drakeblood Knights were sent or led to Shulva by Vendrick or Aldia. Yorgh their captain wears a ring with Drangleic crest. In the large mural in Shulva, it depicts the Kings discovery of the Dragon, and dead center is a Dragon Egg. This very egg is held in Aldias possession at Dragon Shrine, overlooked by the exact same mural.
Sunken King and his people were Sun Bros. Not only are they adept miracle users but they also scorned sorcery. Velstadt, originally a Knight of Shulva, gives a miracle known by Sun Bros. The Sun Bro shrine was dug up alongside a great poison and dual Falchon wielding skeletons.
Sunken King is Pharros who is the Rotten. The Sunken King can be defined by the Sin of Sloth, and his inactions with the surface world may have caused this catastrophic event. In repentance, he took a fake name to hide his identity and took to helping the ill fortunate. Shulva was known for great technological advances and Pharros was known for his perplexing contraptions. The Rotten had a knack for creating those Posion spitting statues also found in Shulva, these statues are also found in Doors of Pharros suggesting Pharros created these statues, also implying Pharros came from Shulva. If you think carefully the statues of a poison spitting maiden could represent... Elana perhaps. The Rotten is guarding the entrance to Shulva. The Rotten drops a Pharros lockstone if you chop off his lead. The Mask of Pharros, is depicting the face of a morning king, perhaps of the Sunken King.
The traitor spoke of by the Rat King is the Sunken King, and in the Sunken King's repentance as Pharros, he tried to repent by helping the rats. Pharros is the one the Rat King speaks highly of when he speaks of the selfless human.
I got much more, for the other kings but no time to write it. Like how it was the Iron King who killed Alonne, and how the Ivory King is actually a woman. Maybe later.
This video was outstanding! Awesome job. Very well done.
Oh Dan, please keep talking more story forever. It's wonderful listening to you!
The big theory of Ornstein that I find most people go for is this.
The Ornstein in Anor Londo is fake, but the Smough at Anor Londo is real, and knows that everything is an illusion, but does not care because he wanted to rank among the nights and Gwyndolin gave him that chance. He can kill Ornstein so easily in the second phase of the boss fight because he knows the truth. As for Ornstein, he left to follow the Nameless King when he was exiled. You can find Ornstein’s armor outside of the arena where the Nameless King is fought. The theory then goes on to say that Ornstein is the dragon of storms that nameless king rides upon in the battle.
"Seek strength, the rest will follow"
I meditate on these words a lot.
Dan, thank you for making this video. I have played DS2 maybe 6 or 7 times by now, and still had not grasped the story as well as you portrayed it in this video. I learned a lot and have gained a new appreciation for this game thanks to your efforts. It is somewhat a testament to the game's scattershot storytelling, but moreso a testament to your fine research and hard work. While I still prefer the slightly simpler but more emotionally resonant story of DS1, and consider its storytelling more cohesive and thus more compelling, I really do appreciate the narrative of DS2. It is very obvious to me now that despite its shortcomings, a lot of work was put into crafting a good story in DS2. It is just a shame it took From's B-Team two tries to make a good story. Those who played the game on release really got the short end of the stick on more than one front, and it really demonstrates how Scholar is really the only edition someone can justifiably recommend to new players. In any case, thank you for the great work Dan. I won't be watching season 3 until I play DS3 for myself, but I look forward to the day I can catch up and experience the conclusion to the trilogy alongside you!
DS2 has the best story and NPC'S. Vendrick was the true hero here.
I love this. Adore this! You sir have said everything that I have been pushing down the communities throat on forums since DkS2 DLCs. You are amazing. THANK YOU, keep up the amazing work!
"why write things off, when you can have fun speculating?" literally every fandom ever.
Your observation on the potential of illusions of Ornstein and Smough is one I came to as well, though mine was not through his appearance in DS2 but instead on thinking of the nature of Anor Londo's illusion which constructs the demons, silver knights, and giant sentinels. On thinking on it, I concluded that seeing as how the princess and her world were an illusion, all her guardians, including the dynamic duo, were as well, since true Anor Londo is completely empty save for the giant smith and members of Gwyndolin's Dark Moon Covenant. Every enemy is just a construct of Gwyndolins. If you could dispel Gwynevere before fighting them, I think they would vanish as well.
A shame there's only so much you can touch upon in one video, because the story of Velstadt and Raime is one of my favorite of all time.
A knight striking down his equal, who was practically like a brother to him, out of his blind loyalty for his lord. Failing to save his king not once, but twice, from a child of dark, because he refused to believe his king could be wrong.
A pretty powerful tale, shame it didn't make it into the video in its full potential. Other then that, amazing recap and it's actually inspiring me to play through DS2 again.
Could Manus be a then corrupt form of Vendrick(idk if thats correct spelling) searching for what he lost being Nashandra. Searching for the broken pendant of what was seen to be beauty at first glace. Corruption then took his place searching for not only power, but a connection to Nashandra. Would also explain the cause of corruption, and the pursuers in the first game. Vendrick also could of made the Undead asylum later "renamed" (it seems names are pretty loose(maybe due to time travel or because the fact players are never name themselves same thing?))
edit:Old dragonslayer maybe wasn't the "real" version of the "dream" Ornstein and Smough, but they were the better version THAT YOU (not the player but character) in the future employed. In honor of the knight he fought he gave Ornstein a gold set of armor, and a companion.
Smough's set in DS3 almost confirms that the Ornstein we originally fought was an illusion. It says Smough was the last knight in Anor Londo.
Ornstein was tasked with the protection of Gwynevere so yeah, it is likely that he accompanied her to wherever she went.
Great job here Dan...I literately cried at the Frozen Kings part...
You really managed to piece it together in a way that fitted the game, and made it in such a way that it is a blast listening to it.
All your Work and time that went into this Video...it really shows and I am so glad you did this. Thanks for taking all this work on your shoulders.
Greetings from Germany
Another Dan
PS: Did you slow down part of the Video footage in order to better fit the pacing of this Lore video? (seemed like it for me)
Boy oh boy! Gwin bless phone notifications!
Seems to me that Dark Souls 1 was a creation myth, all Gods and Legendary Heroes, while Dark Souls 2 is a medieval epic, of Kings and Grand Armies. Bloodborne is a Victorian Gothic Horror Novel, all Tragic Illness and Uncleanliness. Wonder what Dark Souls 3 will be like?
An opera?
Upsettingly, almost none of the lore from Dark Souls 2 matters cause Dark Souls 3 clings so TIGHTLY to Dark Souls 1 that it almost has no identity of its own.
Waw, I got a new respect for DS. While the concept of the story isn't new. The way it is told (at least from what Dan says) is really good and I will say is one of the best tales of the humanity.
Now I'm even more excited that DS remastered is coming to the Switch. And I hope DS 2 and 3 will follow up someday.
I'm not huge on the souls series but god I love Dark Souls 2. One of the games I've put the most time in
What a great video! I have watched all the lore videos I have found, but this one just puts everything together. Thank's!
Will we see a lore of Bloodborne when that playthrough is finished? Would love to see it.
This is the best Dark souls lore video I have ever seen, period 🙌
I love dark souls 2, great video!
the giant ,the eater ,the watchers ,the twins ,the fire fades......
chaotic spark 1/1 red knights give this plan a thumbs up!
By the time you rolled around to actually discussing the First Sin, I was already emotionally fragile. AND THEN YOU HIT ME WITH GWYN'S THEME.
DAMMIT DAN. That piece is like Kryptonite to me -- I have a hard enough time keeping from crying hearing it when I'm NOT emotionally strung out from a ton of revelations. GAAH.
...in all seriousness, though, this is a wonderful summation of everything you've seen and done. Though I do have to wonder -- from a gameplay perspective, would wearing Vendrick's blessed crown have kept Nashandra from being able to curse you six ways from Sunday? Does protection from Hollowing extend to protection from the Curse status effect?
...I ask because I miiiiiiiight have screamed at the screen a little during your Nashandra fight for Elisa to 'PUT THE F**ING CROWN ON ALREADY FLAME ALMIGHTY." Maybe.
It especially interests me that not all the shards of Manus were evil. Nashandra definitely qualified, and Elana as well, but more because of their actions rather than what they represented (desire and anger aren't evil unless taken to excess).
Nadalia's only real crime is loneliness -- she arrived after all the catastrophes had befallen the Iron Kingdom, and was left with nothing and no one except that which she brought back herself.
And Alsanna?
Alsanna interests me the most. As a Child of Dark, the Flame of Chaos would be absolute anathema to her -- fire run rampant, burning out of control. So when the Ivory King made it his mission to protect his kingdom from it, of course she volunteered to help out -- and in a kind of reverse Beauty-and-the-Beast scenario, ended up seeming to reform while attenpting to halt the spread of Izalith's legacy. Had she not all but plainly stated she was a Child of Dark, I wouldn't have believed it.
There's so much else to talk about that my brain is swimming, but those are the parts I felt most connected to. Thanks for this retrospective, and for Let's Playing the Dark Souls games for those of us who lack the gaming chops to pull it off ourselves.
The overarching themes of DS2, with the futility of linking/ignoring the flame are very important in understanding the ending of DS3. I'll not spoil anything in DS3 but I feel that Aldia was somewhat mistaken as the crown you earn is somewhat of a joke. It doesn't actually cure hollowing, merely halts it and only for one person at that. The player character in DS2 by walking away is in essence choosing 'The End of Fire' ending from DS1 as the flame still exists even if practically faded. Hopefully we'll get something a little more concrete in terms of the DS2 influence in The Ringed City and I think we will as Earthern Peak is making a return (although probably in name only). If you read this Dan I'd recommend thinking about the flame as something which needs to be usurped or ripped away to break the cycle, that should help when it comes to interpreting events in DS3 and how good/bad the various endings are.
I love side quest. One of my favourite series on youtube
"And Shalquoir, she's just a weird, immortal cat" Dan 2017
I have a strong feeling that when the final piece of the Dark Souls story drops, we'll look back on Dark Souls 2 with greater interest. Even now, with what little we have, I get the sense that Dark Souls 2 is going to give us the context to really understand Dark Souls 3.
Thanks for doing these man, you da tops.
Yeah. It's nice to see that as the series draws to a close, the hate for DS2 is dying down and people are taking new interest in it
finally catch up, ive watched all of the Side Quest video until this point, it was fascinating
cant wait until Dan finished DSIII and another Lore Retrospective again
Okay so I have theory. Though it may have some flaws in the logic but, what if dark souls 2 takes place after three? The end choice of a new age of dark and how the embers will still emerge makes me wonder if ds2 is the latest age of fire. The way events in 1 and 3 correlate so well, as well as miniscule details as how you encounter the knight Alva in 3 but only buy his armour in 2 kind of bring this idea to mind. It's just a thought/rambling
Joshua Moscicki You are saying that this is after Dark Souls 2??!? That would be amazing, but wouldn't it not be this, because the age of Dark is possible in Dark Souls 3.
Joshua Moscicki the fume ultra greatsword, lucatiel's mask and some other things debunk your theory
gotta say, summing it all up in 55 minutes, that's some high level stuff
This was a great series. Thank you.
The game is far more connected lore wise than you think, some examples:
- Drakeblood knights are from Heide based on their shield and were allied with Drangleic/Vendrick (Yorgh has symbol of Drangleic on his ring), Vendrick probably send them to Shulva.
- Old knights of Heide are probably from Shulva. Their armor style is very similar to Aztec and Shulva has that kind of architecture. The reason why they are at Heide is probably because Shulva lauched counter invasion in the past, which might be one of the reasons why Heide is in ruins.
- Harvest valley posion is from Sinh, the poison transformed Mytha to a serpent, which is imperfect dragon.
I played SOTFS and the Bastille key isn't where it's supposed to be.
Finally beat souls 2 and all the dlcs and said "yes! I did it". In beating souls 2 I beat every souls game. Then I watch this video and say... "Damn there is much I haven't done." Good news is I''m in NGP as we speak. EXCELLENT video and excellent research!
when you realise there's so much time traveling in this
Makes your head hurt doesn’t it? And yet it makes it even more interesting to see perspective.
Yo Dan, in case you hadn't heard yet, the last dlc of DS3 is coming out on March 28th. About a month after that on April 21st is when fromsoft is gonna release their definitive edition of the game with the two dlcs pre-bundled.
There's allot that Dark Souls teaches us about storytelling in games, and even in general. It's a lesson that, sure, could be learned elsewhere, but I say it's a place as good as any. There's something about the first game in particular that the other two games are missing, not that Souls 2 and 3 are bad games or even bad stories, they're just not the same. With Dark Souls everything is told in legends (that much is true throughout the series), but in DS1 it's something that seems the strongest. It's very much like real world history, told through legends, recorded accounts, and items lost in time.
Dark souls is definitely a game that offers something to storytelling as a whole, an experience that keeps it's own in gaming and otherwise.
i cant wait for dan's dark souls 3 playthroughs
Thank you! For both long side quests and their retrospectives! I don't do let's plays but I'm addicted to this... Your ruining me.. Thanks :)
Here's hoping Aldia gets a shout out in the final Dark Souls III DLC. Dark Souls II doesn't get enough credit for the interesting concepts it introduced. Granted, they weren't executed very well. But there are complex characters and concepts that add a lot of depth to the experience.
Dark Souls III is honestly my favorite of the series, despite its over-reliance on the first game's concepts. Add in some answers to the questions asked in the second game, and it might become one of my favorite games ever. Give us closure, Lord Miyazaki.
Amazing work again Dan.
Dan's Dark Soul playthroughs are the best playthroughs of anything I've ever watched. The nostalgia...
BTW, Dan, since you've now seen the alternate ending introduced in Scholar and have learned of the use of the blessed crowns, what are your thoughts on the ending? I personally felt the whole new ending endeavour with the crowns turned the game from mostly ok to outright awesome.
I find it a bit appalling that there was only one ending in the base game. Aldia's absence in general is bizarre. It must have been so disappointing for people who picked it up on release only to find that they had to buy a revamped second version of the game just to get the second ending. That's one of the reasons why I understand how people who played DS2 before Scholar disliked the game--stuff like Matthewmatosis' critique of DS2's story makes so much sense when you consider how incomplete and scattershot the base game was. People forget how poorly the game's story played out without the Scholar edition's improvements. The way Namco and From's B-Team handled that debacle was also extremely unfortunate. That being said, Scholar does close up a lot of the narrative gaps. It's just a damn shame it took them two tries to get it right.
And still, the storytelling of the game suffers for it, even in the Scholar edition. There's a real reason why people needed to consult lore videos and in-depth analyses to even understand what was going on in DS2, moreso than with DS1. If Fromsoft had gotten it right the first time, they might have been able to write better dialogue, stitch together more of the short stories into a cohesive canvas, flesh out the barebones NPC quests, and made the experience more clear and enjoyable overall. As it stands, even the improved Scholar edition can't fix every mistake in the base game's story, no matter how many abstract and overly roundabout monologues they give Aldia. Now that I've watched Dan's video and gotten a better handle on the story, I can appreciate it. It's a cool story. It just plays out poorly in the game itself, because even the Scholar improvements couldn't 100% fix what was previously broken/incomplete.
Bear...Seek...Seek...Lest...
Great video! I really appreciate Your respect for the story, game, and other "Lore Translators". Also, solid sense of humor! Thank You for Your content!
Hey Dan. Great video, well worth the wait. In case you're looking for suggestions for other games to play, I've been playing Nioh on PS4 and I have to say, it's pretty rad. A lot of the systems are very reminiscent of a Dark Demon Blood Souls game, while making everything new and different with some very interesting crafting options. I'm only a few hours in, maybe about 10 with intense exploration and a fair amount of deaths, but I'd recommend it to anyone with a PS4 who likes Blood Souls type game-play.
It is widely theorized that while lordran was falling apart that Ornstein went looking for Gwynt's banished son in hopes that he could help save thing kingdom.
Your Orenstein theory was so close, and yet so far. You'll find the truth later in Dark Souls III so look out for that.
Also it's my personal theory that Heide and it's cathedral of Blue were built by Gwyndolin (remember he was an optional boss), who abandoned Anor Londo after the Chosen Undead rekindled the First Flame, taking his illusion of Orenstein with him. In addition, I believe the Way of Blue is a religion that worships Gwyndolin, similar to Gwyn's way of Blue, with the Blue Sentinels replacing Gwyndolins Dark Moon Knights.
ornstein's fate in DS3 is still dubious actually, there are prefered theories and more acurate ones, but none of them explains everything.
Wow! This video was so good that it has made me want to play DS2 for the first time since DS3 came out last year.
Luckily, the Return to Drangleic event is starting very soon :-)
So... for all these years we may have just been getting mulched by an ILLUSION of pikachu and snorlax. That's one of the most Dark Souls things I've ever heard
I've been waiting for this one! Thanks! ;-)
Can't wait for your DS3 playthrough now. Till then! Good luck!