followed a recommendation here from joseph anderson's limbo review: fantastic stuff! i enjoy the discussion about sound design and the like: a lot of people don't ever talk about sound in games as anything other than "yeah, it was properly moody" or something similarly dismissive. definitely subscribed.
Hey, thanks so much! Yeah sound can be difficult to talk about in games but I always try to think of interesting things to say whenever possible. It's such an integral part of almost any experience yet we take it completely for granted. But then most contemporary sound design is supposed to be 'invisible' and if you don't notice it, it's probably doing a good job.
In a community where critics are, well... the ''cynical'' people they are, you truly stand out as an example of what to do. You are a inspiration to all critics either staring out or already on their path.
Great video man. I really loved your idea about trial and error and it stuck out to me as well while playing. Cheap deaths that the player can't see coming are normally considered "flaws" but the devs were able to recontextualize trial and error into a mechanic that enhanced the game's tone. I think it also helps the narrative; you spend most of the game repeatedly dying so you can overcome challenges that ultimately lead you right back to where you started. The game's title is fitting.
I think you summed up exactly the reason I was a little lukewarm on Limbo and it's exactly because of the later section of the game. I really liked solving the puzzles but I didn't like all the dexterity required to do it and while the first half is intriguing and well designed in that regard I feel like the devs conflated difficult to figure out with difficult to pull off.
Awesome review. For my part, I like to interpret the game based on the dangers you face: the fear of nature, followed by the fear of others, followed by the fear of progress. Limbo is also a place where people are forced to face their sins, and as a player you're overcoming the boy's fears by sinning: you mutilate the spider, you kill the other kids, you're avoiding the world's hostility. The crashing through the glass near the end could also represent the sudden realization of something important: that the boy is doomed to repeat his sins forever, since it's the only way he faced is fears in life. The sister could taken as either a metaphor for unreachable redemption or an actual person who perished because of the kid's actions. And unlike everything else in this world, she's always out of reach, offering no end to the circle. Maybe the devs went for a cheesy fourth-wall breaking gimmick: the only way to let the boy rest and atone is to not play the game.
I agree 100% about games leaving us wanting more and not outstaying their welcome. That's a lot of the reason that the Portal games and Limbo are a couple of my favorites. So many games are guilty of outstaying their welcomes and devolving from something I enjoyed to something I just wanted to end: Alan Wake, Ms. 'Splosion Man, and Tomb Raider, to name a few.
It has a horribly depressing ending. You find your sister at the end, but now you're stuck. Someone has to help the other one up to the ladder, and whoever does that is stuck at the bottom with no way to progress farther.
I think the hanged figure (when the ground falls through) isn't another Human - rather some cruel puppet (7:45) , like the fake spider. (perhaps created by the "Lord of the Flies" Trap building cruel children)
+Zetetik - Ahhh that's an interesting idea, watching it back again now I can kind of see what you mean. That's the great thing about Limbo and it's world, everything is open to interpretation!
"It really made me think about suicide" hahaha I don't think the marketing team will be using that quote any time soon. Really enjoyed the video though man, you managed to capture my experience of Limbo in a much more eloquent way than I could. I would be curious to know your opinion on Inside, since I was brought here from Joseph Anderson's video as well. I quite enjoyed it (though admit it was less consistent and focused in terms of the overall message and gameplay compared to limbo). Joseph's review was pretty scathing of the whole thing, but there were some things which he didn't discuss which I loved, like the beautiful tactile animations and powerful contrasting sound design. You seem to pick up on these things a bit more so I'd be interested to hear your take on it. anyway keep up the good stuff, I'm just gonna go and watch all your other videos now
Hi - I haven't watched your videos before but this is very impressive. You've got interesting things to say and you express your ideas in a clear and concise manner. Big words are used when they're appropriate but not chucked around needlessly like you're writing a PhD dissertation (Edge magazine, i'm looking at you). Thanks for a great review, have a sub !
The idea of dying many times breaking immersion is why I'm so critical of the game's moments of trial-and-error. It's normally not hard to filter death as another timeline that didn't happen. Having puzzles that require knowledge of that alternate timeline starts to break that illusion.
I always thought of it as the boy being mankind. You travel from the natural primitive origins, through tribalism, industry, add eventually future technology. The breaking through of the glass could be the desire to return, but we all know it's too late. Maybe we'll get it next time
First off good review. I just finished this game last night and I will be getting inside tonight probably. My only complaint is the second half of the game it's less about figuring out the puzzle than execution and timing. I didn't use any guides so that moment I figured out the puzzle felt great. But in the second half I would figure out the puzzle but would then be forced to do it anywhere from 3-10 (depending on difficulty) times just to get the timing and execution down and that becomes irritating and makes the deaths less meaningful.
Playdead's Limbo's insistence on using trial and error (or death) for player to learn ways of solving puzzles is very similar to Fromsoftware's souls games' philosophy of viewing death as a feature rather than a bug. Also both companies are big on minimalist design. Both are my favourite developers.
I think what makes the trial and error a virtue in this game is that it does not make you go back too far at any time and you aren't pressured through having limited 'lives'.
@@thinreaper I realised that I just repeated something you said. I should have watched the whole video before commenting. The only puzzle that I got frustrated dying on was the second to last puzzle (the one with the two boxes), I kept getting hit by the boxes and dying for like 2 hours, then when the solution hit me I was like what the hell was I trying to do for two hours? The solution that I had before figuring it out, was trying to do something so that the boxes were wide apart while sliding along the ceiling, so that when they dropped, one dropped next to the wall and the other dropped on the incline and then I would try jump up on the box next to the wall, before the other one fell off the incline, I never did achieve a appropriate distance between the boxes. I tried that for hours and died a lot doing it.
this was an excellent review. I have yet to see a better one. even from major gaming publications. have you thought of becoming a professional game reviewer? you have the talent.
+cashman201 Thanks very much! Really appreciate your kind words, I would love to do this professionally but never really gave it much thought as I wouldn't know where to start haha I think I'm going to concentrate on trying to build an audience on UA-cam first and then see where I can go from there!
I preferred the later puzzles and I did not find that the atmospheric quality decreased, it just changed. I found that as you get later into the game, it gets lonelier and lonelier and less hospitable, after you have realised there is no solace to be found in the other people.
Yeah I'd agree with that! While I prefer the earlier atmosphere personally, I do think the second half has just as much atmosphere, it's just different. You could argue its less thematically consistent? but I still loved it
@@thinreaper Yes, the change was not entirely consistent. The way I would say it was not thematically consistent is due to the fact that the earlier and later parts do not 'coalesce'. I was half expecting a return of the other humans (and spiders) in the more industrial parts and the two parts to combine somehow. That might have been too cliche an option though, or it might have broke some other thematic rule that isn't apparent to me.
Great review and analysis (and production quality) but I couldn't disagree more with you on the "trial and error" implementation. If the only way you teach the player is to kill them over and over again it's both incredibly frustrating for the player, and completely robs them of any sense of satisfaction at every progression point. It's like cracking a safe by just trying every combination and eventually getting it after 500 attempts. You don't really feel like you "beat" anything, you fell over the line eventually. I am only halfway through and am hating almost every puzzle I hit because of this approach. The whole game feels like that scene from the Simpsons where Sideshow Bob steps on the rakes over and over. I'm only pushing through now to get it off my "to play" list.
Hey, thanks for the comment and the kind words! I'm sorry you're not enjoying Limbo! I guess the trial and error approach to gameplay isn't for everyone and I can only disagree on a personal level about it not being rewarding; I found it an incredibly rewarding puzzle game. I don't agree with the comparison to the randomly cracking a safe by trying every combination however. None of the puzzles are solved through random actions; there is a logical solution to every puzzle that can be understood by taking the time to think about the problem rather than trying random solutions. That's why I found it rewarding; I don't think there were any puzzles I solved 'by accident' by just 'trying every combination' as you put it. The point I was trying to make was that, through death, the combination can become clearer and that death is not a punishment and a set back the way it is typically is in games. You learn from death and can solve puzzles through dying. It isn't something you should be avoiding at all costs but instead be embracing and using as a tool to beat the game. That is something really unique to Limbo and, while trial and error style gameplay will never be for everybody, I like that Playdead were playing around with the conventions of standard game design and trying new things.
@@thinreaper You know, you do have a point there. The more I think about it, it is interesting how they are using each death to show a solution or, at least, rule one out and point you in another direction. I worry that using player death like this could be de-motivating for new players (or those who don't get what the game is trying to do) but I suppose if you understand and accept it you can start to enjoy it. It's just hard to break from the standard "death = bad" paradigm. I had filed this game away in my "gave up" category, but I'll get back in to it and try and get through it. Thanks!
I think I've died as many times in this as I have bloodborne. I think it's a ok game but I wouldn't recommend it on mobile because the controls can be difficult to use on this one.
followed a recommendation here from joseph anderson's limbo review: fantastic stuff! i enjoy the discussion about sound design and the like: a lot of people don't ever talk about sound in games as anything other than "yeah, it was properly moody" or something similarly dismissive. definitely subscribed.
Hey, thanks so much! Yeah sound can be difficult to talk about in games but I always try to think of interesting things to say whenever possible. It's such an integral part of almost any experience yet we take it completely for granted. But then most contemporary sound design is supposed to be 'invisible' and if you don't notice it, it's probably doing a good job.
Ye me to... love this channel now😁
Watched only 2 videos and I can already tell that this channel is criminally underrated.
In a community where critics are, well... the ''cynical'' people they are, you truly stand out as an example of what to do. You are a inspiration to all critics either staring out or already on their path.
That's really kind of you to say, thank you!
Great video man. I really loved your idea about trial and error and it stuck out to me as well while playing. Cheap deaths that the player can't see coming are normally considered "flaws" but the devs were able to recontextualize trial and error into a mechanic that enhanced the game's tone. I think it also helps the narrative; you spend most of the game repeatedly dying so you can overcome challenges that ultimately lead you right back to where you started. The game's title is fitting.
I think you summed up exactly the reason I was a little lukewarm on Limbo and it's exactly because of the later section of the game. I really liked solving the puzzles but I didn't like all the dexterity required to do it and while the first half is intriguing and well designed in that regard I feel like the devs conflated difficult to figure out with difficult to pull off.
I couldn't agree more.
Awesome review. For my part, I like to interpret the game based on the dangers you face: the fear of nature, followed by the fear of others, followed by the fear of progress. Limbo is also a place where people are forced to face their sins, and as a player you're overcoming the boy's fears by sinning: you mutilate the spider, you kill the other kids, you're avoiding the world's hostility. The crashing through the glass near the end could also represent the sudden realization of something important: that the boy is doomed to repeat his sins forever, since it's the only way he faced is fears in life. The sister could taken as either a metaphor for unreachable redemption or an actual person who perished because of the kid's actions. And unlike everything else in this world, she's always out of reach, offering no end to the circle. Maybe the devs went for a cheesy fourth-wall breaking gimmick: the only way to let the boy rest and atone is to not play the game.
I agree 100% about games leaving us wanting more and not outstaying their welcome. That's a lot of the reason that the Portal games and Limbo are a couple of my favorites. So many games are guilty of outstaying their welcomes and devolving from something I enjoyed to something I just wanted to end: Alan Wake, Ms. 'Splosion Man, and Tomb Raider, to name a few.
HicksZ34 yuko
It has a horribly depressing ending. You find your sister at the end, but now you're stuck. Someone has to help the other one up to the ladder, and whoever does that is stuck at the bottom with no way to progress farther.
I think the hanged figure (when the ground falls through) isn't another Human - rather some cruel puppet (7:45) , like the fake spider.
(perhaps created by the "Lord of the Flies" Trap building cruel children)
+Zetetik - Ahhh that's an interesting idea, watching it back again now I can kind of see what you mean. That's the great thing about Limbo and it's world, everything is open to interpretation!
Like Life! ;)
(Where *do* the certain get all their certainty from??) :/
lol keep up the good work, niceone man.
"It really made me think about suicide" hahaha I don't think the marketing team will be using that quote any time soon.
Really enjoyed the video though man, you managed to capture my experience of Limbo in a much more eloquent way than I could. I would be curious to know your opinion on Inside, since I was brought here from Joseph Anderson's video as well. I quite enjoyed it (though admit it was less consistent and focused in terms of the overall message and gameplay compared to limbo). Joseph's review was pretty scathing of the whole thing, but there were some things which he didn't discuss which I loved, like the beautiful tactile animations and powerful contrasting sound design. You seem to pick up on these things a bit more so I'd be interested to hear your take on it.
anyway keep up the good stuff, I'm just gonna go and watch all your other videos now
Wow, that was a great review. This is what video game critical analysis should be like
Thanks man! That means a lot
Hi - I haven't watched your videos before but this is very impressive. You've got interesting things to say and you express your ideas in a clear and concise manner. Big words are used when they're appropriate but not chucked around needlessly like you're writing a PhD dissertation (Edge magazine, i'm looking at you). Thanks for a great review, have a sub !
The idea of dying many times breaking immersion is why I'm so critical of the game's moments of trial-and-error. It's normally not hard to filter death as another timeline that didn't happen. Having puzzles that require knowledge of that alternate timeline starts to break that illusion.
Damn good review. Nice job with this.
You deserve more subscribers. Not saying that that's what's important, but I believe more people need to see your work.
I always thought of it as the boy being mankind. You travel from the natural primitive origins, through tribalism, industry, add eventually future technology.
The breaking through of the glass could be the desire to return, but we all know it's too late.
Maybe we'll get it next time
38 views?! How?? This is so well done!
haha Glad you enjoyed it, thank you!
Not eny more but still to little
You should do an Inside analysis now that it's out.
Yeah I really want to, I just need to get hold of something to play it on!
Inside is just a documentary on how it’s like to be inside North Korea
@@vergulyanets 😂😮
First off good review. I just finished this game last night and I will be getting inside tonight probably. My only complaint is the second half of the game it's less about figuring out the puzzle than execution and timing. I didn't use any guides so that moment I figured out the puzzle felt great. But in the second half I would figure out the puzzle but would then be forced to do it anywhere from 3-10 (depending on difficulty) times just to get the timing and execution down and that becomes irritating and makes the deaths less meaningful.
Playdead's Limbo's insistence on using trial and error (or death) for player to learn ways of solving puzzles is very similar to Fromsoftware's souls games' philosophy of viewing death as a feature rather than a bug. Also both companies are big on minimalist design. Both are my favourite developers.
There is a reason why their name is play-dead
Can't believe Ricky Gervais has his own gaming channel!
I think what makes the trial and error a virtue in this game is that it does not make you go back too far at any time and you aren't pressured through having limited 'lives'.
Completely agree. Either of those things would have made death feel like a punishment and ruined the experience.
@@thinreaper I realised that I just repeated something you said. I should have watched the whole video before commenting. The only puzzle that I got frustrated dying on was the second to last puzzle (the one with the two boxes), I kept getting hit by the boxes and dying for like 2 hours, then when the solution hit me I was like what the hell was I trying to do for two hours?
The solution that I had before figuring it out, was trying to do something so that the boxes were wide apart while sliding along the ceiling, so that when they dropped, one dropped next to the wall and the other dropped on the incline and then I would try jump up on the box next to the wall, before the other one fell off the incline, I never did achieve a appropriate distance between the boxes. I tried that for hours and died a lot doing it.
this was an excellent review. I have yet to see a better one. even from major gaming publications. have you thought of becoming a professional game reviewer? you have the talent.
+cashman201 Thanks very much! Really appreciate your kind words, I would love to do this professionally but never really gave it much thought as I wouldn't know where to start haha I think I'm going to concentrate on trying to build an audience on UA-cam first and then see where I can go from there!
Amazing video👍🏼
Thank you!
Really good gamr and I think Inside is even better. I highly recommend the Little Nightmares games and Black the fall.
very good content, you should be proud
I preferred the later puzzles and I did not find that the atmospheric quality decreased, it just changed. I found that as you get later into the game, it gets lonelier and lonelier and less hospitable, after you have realised there is no solace to be found in the other people.
Yeah I'd agree with that! While I prefer the earlier atmosphere personally, I do think the second half has just as much atmosphere, it's just different. You could argue its less thematically consistent? but I still loved it
@@thinreaper Yes, the change was not entirely consistent. The way I would say it was not thematically consistent is due to the fact that the earlier and later parts do not 'coalesce'. I was half expecting a return of the other humans (and spiders) in the more industrial parts and the two parts to combine somehow. That might have been too cliche an option though, or it might have broke some other thematic rule that isn't apparent to me.
Great review and analysis (and production quality) but I couldn't disagree more with you on the "trial and error" implementation. If the only way you teach the player is to kill them over and over again it's both incredibly frustrating for the player, and completely robs them of any sense of satisfaction at every progression point. It's like cracking a safe by just trying every combination and eventually getting it after 500 attempts. You don't really feel like you "beat" anything, you fell over the line eventually. I am only halfway through and am hating almost every puzzle I hit because of this approach. The whole game feels like that scene from the Simpsons where Sideshow Bob steps on the rakes over and over. I'm only pushing through now to get it off my "to play" list.
Hey, thanks for the comment and the kind words! I'm sorry you're not enjoying Limbo! I guess the trial and error approach to gameplay isn't for everyone and I can only disagree on a personal level about it not being rewarding; I found it an incredibly rewarding puzzle game. I don't agree with the comparison to the randomly cracking a safe by trying every combination however. None of the puzzles are solved through random actions; there is a logical solution to every puzzle that can be understood by taking the time to think about the problem rather than trying random solutions. That's why I found it rewarding; I don't think there were any puzzles I solved 'by accident' by just 'trying every combination' as you put it. The point I was trying to make was that, through death, the combination can become clearer and that death is not a punishment and a set back the way it is typically is in games. You learn from death and can solve puzzles through dying. It isn't something you should be avoiding at all costs but instead be embracing and using as a tool to beat the game. That is something really unique to Limbo and, while trial and error style gameplay will never be for everybody, I like that Playdead were playing around with the conventions of standard game design and trying new things.
@@thinreaper You know, you do have a point there. The more I think about it, it is interesting how they are using each death to show a solution or, at least, rule one out and point you in another direction. I worry that using player death like this could be de-motivating for new players (or those who don't get what the game is trying to do) but I suppose if you understand and accept it you can start to enjoy it. It's just hard to break from the standard "death = bad" paradigm. I had filed this game away in my "gave up" category, but I'll get back in to it and try and get through it. Thanks!
I think I've died as many times in this as I have bloodborne. I think it's a ok game but I wouldn't recommend it on mobile because the controls can be difficult to use on this one.
Knock out review
YOU THINK YOU CAN JUST MAKE A LIMBO REVIEW?