I made a follow up video to the feedback I got in this video: ua-cam.com/video/zoKVA4C-9ok/v-deo.html Should there be a Part 2? Hey all! I had to cut this down from a much longer video (40 minutes)! So if you want to hear me ramble more about romance anime tropes that I hate and better story set-ups they should be replaced with, I uploaded the mostly unedited clip to Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/tired-romance-79246461?Link&
PLEASE discuss the pedophilia problem in doukyuusei😭 I love the movie/manga in general but it has SUCH a big flaw when it comes to the teacher esp in the spin off
I hate how often manga makes a "romantic" moment the female lead gets sexually harassed and the male lead saves/defends her. This isn't romantic; it's a terrible situation that you'd never want to remember even if a good guy helps you. Edit: Stop the strawmanning in the replies. No, this isn’t an attack on anyone who likes this trope. I’m just really annoyed at how often it happens in anime to the point that it’s expected that anyone who helps a female character out of sexual harassment is automatically assumed to be a love interest and not just a decent human being that everyone should be without expecting romantic feelings in return. And I know that a lot of women like this trope too. This doesn’t change how annoying it is to me personally
THIS ONE! Why would I feel like getting romantic or feel like getting it on, when some person literally just assaulted me?! Like, that $hit is the LAST THING I want to be doing! It's another garbage trope in videogames too.
For real! I remember watching SAO when I was like 12, where there was a scene like that and I didn’t see anything wrong with it, it just made me think “omg kirito is so cool for saving her.” Now, I think it’s disgusting, having to make such a scene, degrading what could have been a powerful and good female lead just to make Kirito seem cooler. That scene was honestly so unnecessary.
To me, the worst thing about Koi kimoi is not about their age gap but seeing a playboy going after an innocent girl. They use others for fun and now want someone pure for themselves? They don't deserve that. It's freaking disgusting.
More like someone much older is not a good match, doesn't have to be a stranger or teacher/mentor, it's just those are who kids are most likely to encounter.
@@Darth_Bateman No, for anyone. As a teen, it's a massive power imbalance, bordering on abuse. As an adult, too large a gap means you're not at the same phase of life. You're out of sync mentally, emotionally, possibly physically, depending how large a gap. It can seem fine at first, but of course, the impacts of aging accelerate as you get older - even a healthy 65yo is gonna slow down a 40yo. If you're older & genuinely care about the other person & their needs, then you want them to be with someone compatible with a robust life - even if that's not you. If you're younger, you owe it to yourself to grow fully as a person, and find your own path/identity first. Or worse in either case, sacrificing your life to be a do-over in someone else's. That's not a healthy basis for a relationship, no matter who you are.
To any teenagers watching this: If a grown person shows interest in you romantically, ask yourself, “why do the men/women their age want nothing to do with them?” They want a younger partner that’s less experienced at noticing red flags. This still applies if you’re 18/19 and someone who’s 30 or older shows interest in you. I’ve seen so many horror stories, it doesn’t matter if you’re “legal”; it’s not worth it.
when i was 13, i was not that dumb. but then i remembered some children always crave attention even if it means from the wrong source, even if it is a big risk. they will take the risk just to know what it is like. i really don't know how to advice these children to love themselves. some even watch toxic relationships on the media and shows and think on "well, it is better than being alone". which is really sad to me.
I can tell you, the harassment thing is SO annoying. Yes, teasing in a relationship is normal I'd say but just to an extend and if both parties know it's just for fun/a joke (me and my husband do that often but it is nowhere near sth like e.g. in Nagatoro). I HAVE actually often been harassed as a child by boys, also had to listen to this stupid ""He likes you!" comment and you knew what happened? I still have problems when talking to men because I was so often laughed and bullied at 20 years later. I still couldn't shake off having a very bad view of men in general, too (though the same goes for women, I also had bad experiences with females in school...).
don't you think comparison in real life and anime is a bit off the track? since the reason why they do it is because it is anime, a fiction. That's why they are able to make of exaggerated silly jokes or do you prefer anime to be more realistic?
You lucky you had bad experiences with males and females at school only. I barely remember my school days. It was nothing memorable. Really bad experiences come in adulthood
@@1nfinity513art is reflection of real life. Reflection of personal views of creators and sending messages. Thats why in dictatorships so many attention payed by authorities to censorship and propaganda to shape opinions and overview of society
The worst age Gap Romance offender is Cardcaptor Sakura between Rika Sasaki and Mr. Terada. They literally pair an Elementary school girl with a 30 something year old teacher and they both plan to marry once she comes of age. I really don't know what Clamp was thinking back then.
CLAMP had a thing for characters being hot for teachers, because ALL of the hot for teachers pairings happened. Sakura's parents, Eriol and his student, and Toya and his teacher all happened too. No one in universe thinks this is bad, except Sakura's aunt, but it's painted as her being in a love triangle. It's when The Flower gets used, so that Sakura's aunt and father make up.
There is also one episode where Sakura's grandfather is angry at Fujitaka (Sakura's father) for marrying his daughter. The episode ends with her grandfather accepting what happened, which is dumb because he had a right to be mad because of the age gap.
I'm personally tired of 'the girl is gorgeous, the guy is just some guy' especially if they double down and make the girl smart, athletic, popular, student council president, or all of the above. certainly not as egregious of the stuff mentioned in this video, but once you start noticing it, it's like almost every show.
@@Weyland_Punani Let me say, I've encountered some adult women in comments in Por* site, they actually like y'know y'know they imagine their past selves and doing with older than them. It's dark, but only few people in Surface Web was aware of them. Also, I don't think I'd see a thread around the internet addressing about these type of ppl. I'm just addressing this to a random person, because for trivia.
I despise the trope where sexual assault is considered “romantic” moments. One of the worst offenders is Tokyo Mew Mew. I recently read it out of nostalgia, and was horrified at how rapey and disturbing the men were. It completely ruined my childhood memories of that show. 😭
@@officiallytrustissues5411at least in the reboot (haven’t watched season 2 tho) Aoyama hasn’t had any red flag moments, and in the series’ defense I don’t think Ichigo ever showed mutual attraction to Quiche Regarding Ouran though, the beach episode was such a stain on the series and I’ve never been able to like Kyoya since
Are you talking about the green haired guy in Tokyo meow meow who is kinda the villan? I just don't remember much about the anime so I just want to make sure
Why are there so many people talking about how "problematic" the men are in anime when the women are just as bad. Like how overly jealous and possessive they can get to downright abusing them for things out of their control. I can't tell you how much I hate the stupid trope of women hitting the man they like just because another girl looked his way or something and it isn't even their fault. In all honesty they are just as if not more disgusting.
I agree, but weird behaviours coming from women are the results of men's awkward attitude towards them. I think that is why they behave like that, or have male traits they don't like. Some of them though are like that, not all.
@missstranger7697 That is still no excuse to start physically assaulting someone just because they have an "awkward attitude" or because of someone's traits you don't like. That's abuse and still wrong no matter if you're a man or woman.
One scene that traumatize me about maid -sama was usui giving a hickey on misaki back bc he didn't want her to be seen in swimsuit in front of her friends.
Usui fits the "damaged boyfriend" archetype, and there are a *lot* of those. Great for drama, makes some great stories - but terrible IRL. Classic examples are Ren from Skip Beat, Doumyouji from HanaDan/Boys over Flowers, and the guy from Itazura na Kiss (Mischievous Kiss / It started with a Kiss). They all fall somewhere on the spectrum between jerk-with-heart of gold, to abuse-victim with a warped understanding of how to express love, to outright abusive a*hole who the heroine/MC stays with for "reasons". Which flavors you find acceptable in a story is largely going to be subjective, but agreed that it can teach the wrong lessons to impressionable readers.
man i remember telling my friends about the massive ick i got from that scene n they all replied with some flavor of 'it was one of the best parts of the show'
@@awolawol4165 I don't know your life 😇 But 9 is too-young maybe? Hickeys, and the pros/cons of possessive play vs actual DV/controlling behavior is not something I'd expect anyone to grasp fully at that age.
@@rahma6992 Everyone's kink is different 😅 For contrast, there's a scene in Skip Beat where Ren is freaking-out Kyoko and slipping out of character into an aggressive/forward "persona" [dude has identity issues, that's his series/arc plot]. She defuses the actual-danger by shifting into in-character sexy roleplay mode, and Ren, now in his mostly-right-mind, *asks* her to give him a hickey (on his chest, IIRC). Kyoko makes a hilariously awkward and not-at-all sexy attempt at it [she has issues with love, in all forms, that's her series arc], and they hug/relax, which brings the whole thing back into the audience's comfort-zone. It's in the Top 5 fan-favorite scenes of the series, though I'm sure the whole thing would turn-off many folks. It's a series geared at this point to an older audience, there for the crazy ride, so def not for 9yo kids [I hope!]. Everyone's gonna be different, and that's ok :)
One trope that I see time and time again is where the guy is straight up abusive (usually verbally) to the female protag/Love Interest and it just played off like "oh he just needs to be loved because he had [insert tragic event in the past ᴛᴍ) happened" like it's an excuse for his absive behaviour. There was one anime (the name escapes) where it shows the entire relationship from when this couple went to high school together all the way to them getting married and having a child and this guys is emotionally (and physically at times) abusive the ENTIRE TIME, and it just played off as "romantic" because she stuck by this human shaped trashheap. This trope that women have to "fix" these broken trash men needs to die 💀🔪
Speaking of the age gap trope, I'm so TIRED of the type of trope where the female lead has a more viable romance interest in their age range, who is more endearing anyway, and still chose the too-much-older-than-them love interest (I'm looking at you Mei-chan's butler). Or a still-minor character revealed they used to have relationship with a much older person yet that adult isn't painted as a predator but like a tragic love story. Like, why. Another trope I'm really bumped about is "yes they're elementary schooler, but we understand that their love can move the world and we should make it more seriously than it should" (Cardcaptor Sakura and Gakuen Alice are examples that popped up in my mind rn). They're KIDS, please chill.
BRO LITERALLY!!!! LIKE IN KOIKIMO IT MADE ME SO MAD WHEN THE MC REJECTED THE PERFECT KIND CUTE SECOND LOVE INTEREST BOY WITH WHOM SHE HAD SO MUCH IN COMMON WITH WND WHO’S OF HER AGE AND WENT ON TO DATE THE SCUMBAG TEN YEARS OLDER THAN HER LIKE EWWW
The fact that ALL the hot for teacher pairings in Cardcaptor Sakura are canon make me uncomfortable. Sakura's parents are student and teacher. Eriol and his student, Toya and his teacher, and Mr. Terada and his student are all messed up and they're all played for romance and in universe, Sakura's aunt is the only one with an issue with Sakura's parents and it's played as her being the hypotenuse in a love triangle. But it's okay, because The Flower gets used and everyone understands the power of love now.
Indeed. I cant imagine being like fifteen or eighteen and having love interest who in their thirties. Im in my thirties niwdays and there is no way Id go after someone age of my dad. Is disgusting
One of the tropes I hate the most is when the FL is just stupid. She has no redeeming qualities except being your basic mary sue, innocent type of girl. The ML is usually mean/rude, and the FL tries to see the "good" in him and ignores all the red flags. This happens in a lot of reverse harems and it's just annoying seeing how dumb the FL truly is.
The FL there is a fetizerer to men being friends and fetishized gay men in her fantasies. One of her lines were “even my classmates are not safe from my fantasies.”
I think normal harems are just as terrible honestly. The main character is a whiny entitled loser that somehow gets dozens of women to lust over him just by existing and being a toxic good for nothing. Ecchi and Harem stuff ruin pretty much every story imo.
Yeah. I feel like an intelligent person has some duty not to pursue relationships with idiots. I don't understand what some men like so much about stupid people.
When talking about age gap relationships, it really disturbed me after I read what happens in the manga of "Usagi Drop". I really enjoyed the anime as it did not adapt the part of the show where they begin to fall in love. Like Daikichi raised Rin as a daughter which makes their romance so odd and honestly not acceptable.
WTH ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! I always loved Usagi Drop anime, I thought it was so tender and cute family dynamic even if it's also sad but, even seeing comments talking about some weird shit happening in the manga, I've always avoided getting spoiled since I thought I'll read the manga one day... DAMN, I fcking screamed when I read your comment, I'm never gonna recover from that 😭 Why would the author do such a fcked up thing? I now understand why people were talking crazy about the manga, all those years not knowing, omg... I can't believe it, this is just too much 💀 HE BATHED THAT KID OMG NO, JUST NO
@@EduardoFlores-bt4fonah that's a cop out. Why write it in? It's like when writerz through in r*pe scene and leave it in the air. What are the consequences of doing thay? How does it affect the little girl that she was groomed? When you write something like that and make it sweet you're sending a message, a wrong message.
My Little Monster really got under my skin because the guy clearly disrespected everything the main character wanted for herself. The first time he ignored her explicitly stated wish to be left to focus on her studies and pushed himself into her life until his animal brain got so upset that he lashed out and she got accidentally punched, I tried to brush it off but when it happened again I realized there was no "fixing" this dude.
I have a possible theory that the guy has autism or adhd, but honestly I agree when I read and finished the manga. They could honestly be good friends but I felt like it wasnt the best romantic relationship
It's so interesting how, even though it's a fictional some readers might've excused the first red flag of abuse, at least you realised you can't fix him. But a lot of women irl are in similar relationships and think the same. Sorry, i'm just rambling. Made me realise how easy it is to slip into an abusive relationship
No cuz I was so mad when he threatened to r@pe her like bro she’s not gonna fall in love if you do that you crazy person like there was no fixing him because he keeps making so much mistakes and has some issues
(If you don't already know those) I recommend you Koaru Hana wa Rin to Saku, Skip and Loafer, Sweat* and Soap (or just all Yamada Kintetsu works), Mobuko no Koi, A sign of Affection and Otonari ni Ginga, maybe you'll like one of those! Oh and Insomniacs after school too!
1) you can always read shojo manga, they don't stop existing just because they're unpopular 2) shojo and shounen aren't inheritly better than each other, heck many anime in this video are shojo lol
I see a lot of people complain when the girl gets harrased and I agree its horrible and gross that its shown as "romantic". But it also goes when the guy gets harrased its just as gross and annyoing.. I have always felt this way like I would scream at the screen:" LEAVE THEM ALONE OML PLEASE!!"
THANK YOU! Like the men in anime are harassed and abused way more and its either viewers just turn a blind eye, find it funny, or try to excuse the disgusting behavior just because it came from a girl. And sadly a lot of anime have women beating up on the men for literally no reason. It's infuriating and it's not cute or funny in the slightest. The worst trope in anime ever.
@@phoenixxxashez Because these shows are aimed at men. Theres a reason why tusuderes, abusive women who beat men, are popular in HAREM anime aimed at MEN. Your switching up the demographics. The ones hating on abusive men aren't the ones saying that abusive women are better or fine. Its two separate groups with different fantasizes.
I hated in Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure part 4 when Koichi ended up in a relationship with his kidnapper-stalker. How was that written with a straight face as if this is a good ending for either of those characters?
Harem anime in general, including reverse harem are one of my big pet peeves. The one exception is My Next Life as a Villainess because it makes fun of a lot of the tropes and the main character is so blissfully unaware
Omg yes !! Ouran Highschool Host Club looks like a harem anime but it is one of those classics (like My Next Life as a Villainess) that just progress with continuity and humor. It is just fun seeing the platonic relationship between Haruhi and the boys. I wanted to find an anime similar to that but I just opened a vault of many reverse harem series that literally got me sitting in front of my computer like “what just happened…”
Oh me too, I just can't feel the relationship that way. The only other one I liked a lot was miss not so sidekick, but idk if classifying it as an harem is correct... I didn't even bother to read the other route, one was enough and satisfying. I cannot imagine the fl with anyone else rather than.... Can I say it? It would be a spoiler... I'm going to say it: The fish that escaped the pond was Arwin, the main ml.... Yup he's kinda the asshole type but I love him sm and so does the fl so no bother ~
@@naiadelacrimosa5234lmao lattie is an icon, of course it isn’t close to being a shoujo manga, as its a manhwa like the other 200+ manhwas i have read. Personally however it isn’t my favourite historical, but i will agree that just like MNLAAV it is pure comedy. To answer the harem question, I don’t think it really counts as harem, even with the route just for knight fish jerk man if I remember but besides that harem needs 3 people at a minimum so that is two if your including jerk knight and tease grey magician ml, since we we don’t even count goldie fish cuz we just don’t. We can also forget that cocky ‘protagonist’ fish holder because that girl is just a dipshit and honestly needs to cool her nerves down. Honestly though it must be almost three-four years since I’ve seen the story so…
One of my favorite series is Cardcaptor Sakura. It has the most gross age gaps in anime. It has a lot of gross age gaps actually. And incest. Don't love that a wholesome series has some of the most disgusting "relationships".
Eww, that's so disappointing. I watched the first season of the anime many years ago but never got to finish it ... after reading your comment it will be in the forever dropped series! Thanks for commenting, I would not want to waste my time on that garbage!
i was so disapointed in violet evergarden :(. spoilers: i really HATED it that she ended up with her father/brother figure. i never felt like they had a romantic connection. yes, she was/is obsesive with the major. but he wasn't with her. it bothered me more that she was 9 and he was like 23 when they met. it was stupid
Right? When i watched Violet Evergarden, i thought that the relationship between Violet and the major was like a father/daughter. I thought Violet saw the major as a parental gaurdian or smth and i really loved the show for that. So imagine my surprise and disappointment when my sister told me Violet liked the major as in a love/romantic sort of way💀
@@wajihaazhar2158 we probably had the same reaction 💀my friend told me about the movie and what happened. (or it was vice versa idk anymore 😭) but i SCREAMED and RANTED at her for what happened 😭😭😭
@@lollalofi3933 BROOOO that was me too, i thought my sister was lying to me to get a reaction out of me, but she seemed genuinely amused when she saw my reaction. She was like "you didnt know??" Like she was confused why i was acting so shocked. Like girl ofc i would i thought that was her FATHER.😭 worst part is, she thought it was nothing or that it wasnt weird😀😀😀
@@wajihaazhar2158 ayo what? 💀 violet was like 9 when they met. he was above 20. (I THINK). my friend and i were going on tiktok and so many people were shocked and dissapointed.🥲 violet is such a good story. it was ruined when she decided to settle down with the major 😭
@@lollalofi3933 FRRRR the age gap made everything so weird and i am pretty sure that the whole "romance" dynamic felt forced. I really love Violet Evergarden but damn did that movie leave a bad taste😭😭😭
Another romance trope is girls falling for stoic, personality-less boys because they boy does one low effort good deed. Example: the angel next door spoils me rotten.
Yeah, it's also in lot of harem and that's the main reason I don't like those: the girls might be interesting but the boy they all fallen for is... at the very best, "decent" but most of the time that's just a sweating pervert and that's basically his personality.
I mean she didn't fall for him then and there? Did you even watch the full show? Or drop it after one ep? They actually build a lot of trust and support system for each other. To the point it's actually diabetic. But honestly out of all the trash romances out there, this one doesn't deserve being lumped together. Both the characters are capable and functional. The girl was not a damsel in distress. The guy is not a complete loser incapable of even basic education.
If I had to pick a trope that really grinds my gears, its the super mean guy and lovestruck girl. He'll be a jerk the entire time and she'll gloss over it cause he says nice things at times. Itatsuda na kiss gave me trauma
I agree especially with student-adult romances. I can give leeway to young ppl who are inexperienced in such matters and trying to understand their feelings but as adult it's creepy to see older ppl trying to lure teens and can be dangerous
I feel like the incest trope is also so common not just in anime, but western media too! I don't get why it's a common trope. I guess because like "forbidden love" kind of stuff, but I hate it. I say this as a Monogatari fan too (though I feel the series is mocking/making fun of it but i had to skip the weird stuff). I also hate the age gap between Tohru's parents! If it wasn't romantized, it would've been better too because tbh I do feel like Tohru's mom had issues esp after Tohru's dad died and Tohru copied her dad to become like him. The gap sorta explains why her mom wasn't entirely mature, but it was shown in a positive light. It could have been easier to just make him at least 17-18 and Tohru's mom in high school or something. Idk. I didn't watch the movie. I want to mostly to see the other stuff that you said was well handled. One of my favorite mangas- Cardcaptor Sakura- Sakura's teacher who is a 5th grade teacher is ENGAGED to one of the students!! Also Sakura's parents had an age gap too. Then her COUSIN has a crush on her. I'm just like why? I really wish anime/manga wouldn't do these weird things. I have friends who like Nagato and I couldn't get into it either. I think it's more they like the idea of a cute girl bullying them I guess?? Each to their own. Vampire Knight also was insane to me. They did Zero so dirty!! I still love the art of the series. Brothers Conflict was so gross too. Also can we talk about how garbage Diabolik Lovers is? I was so excited for a vampire reverse harem, but then it ended up being harassment and one of the character literally calls the mc "bitch-chan"! I'm like wtf! Now I love a-hole characters, but it was just cringe. Thank you for shining a light on all these issues. I really enjoy the content!
Sakura's father is her mother's teacher. He married his student. The cousin thing bothered me too. Both Sakura's aunt and Tomoyo have unrequited crushes on their cousins. I realize cousin romances are only considered taboo in the USA, but I'm American, so of course, I'm going to think it's messed up.
@@jamesjohnXII I think it should be, but I follow UA-camrs from other countries, like North African countries, who left to get away from that. I've also seen A LOT of French series, even child friendly ones like Babar and Code: Lyoko, where the cousin romance happens. King Babar married his cousin and she's the queen and Odd's cover for Aelita is that she's his cousin girlfriend from Canada. I'm genuinely surprised the English translation kept any of this, but I think they forgot the relationships between the characters. Other French series that get English dubs do remember to change all the cousins to not being related. I don't remember if this happens in Italian series too and I'm afraid to look it up.
@@Tenko72 Most of the world isn't opposed to even first cousin marriage. 19 American states allow it, and something like seven more allow it with strict restrictions.
As someone who has watched Nagatoro, I will say their relationship gets better as the series goes on, with Nagatoro becoming nicer and the senpai getting more confident. Like, she still messes with him, but it’s in a more friendly way than at the start and more wholesome moments happen more often. But I can get why it wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea
Yah but I wish senpai would stand up for himself and make it clear what she was doing was wrong THEN it can get better. Not bully until he finally surrenders to her love.
@@crazygamer4260 That's not the original manga-- that's the _original_ original unserialized CGs from at most 2013. ...and she kicks him in the ass really hard, not the balls.
@@CincyRazit’s a tough watch at first, but the show makes an active point to show how unhealthy and off putting her behavior was, with Nagatoro being forced in to a few “oop that was too far wasn’t it” moments when she outstrips everyone’s bullshit tolerance. Both parties learn how to deal with their emotions for each other before fully developing a relationship so senpai isn’t an incel and Nagatoro isn’t a complete bitch
It’s so annoying having most female leads be the damsel in distress I have no problem with damsel on distress but when it’s just all the time in almost every single romance which makes it so annoying to me
But this is what some men like... They want an innocent, good looking damsell in distress... If she happens to be strong she is either called a feminist or an annoying tsundere.
To be fair in My stepmom's daughter is my ex they were first dating long before their parents got married and didn't know they would become siblings. They play with the dynamic of "we were together THEN but now we're siblings so we can't do these things"
@@cuu9350i think the main issue of sibling romance is whether they grew up together or not because A. Thats wierd and B. The power dynamics of siblings and family in general that make those relationships often abusive. If they were for example seperated at birth and find eachother when they are like 20 and dont know they are siblings, start dating and then find out, i dont think that matters. If they are step siblings who never grew up together, again i dont think it matters. If they are step siblings but grew up together however, i think thats pretty awful, so them being blood related is irrelevant to me, its about if the siblings are actually in a sibling relationship when it turns into a romantic one, if they never had a sibling relationship in the first place it doesn't really matter.
@@EyesDontCryhoping that the author of hoshi no ko is going for the raw rubyxaqua route... Jk jk.... But that would be interesting and very morally questionable. VERY.... I would love to see juicy developments.....👁️👄👁️ (But kana is best girl, I'm not even following the manga, I stopped at chap 50 but the fandom on Reddit is vomiting everywhere everything that happens on the manga)
I hate the tsundere trope. Especially when said tsundere is extremely violent. Like I would not fall in love with someone that caused me bodily harm on the regular just because something I said or did irritated them or they got jealous. Or they caught me in a compromising position and instead of hearing me out their thoughts immediately go for the nuclear option that I'm being a sick deviant. Showing that they have Little faith in me.
This this this...to me tsundere make everyone look bad. Her for lacking self-awareness, entitled attitude, liability. ML, he looks spineless, lacks self-respect, makes himself smaller for her feelings. Any" friends " who don't call either out on their behaviors.
Female character always beating up male character. It's not cute😒 Only Anime that it doesn't completely bother me is Tomo chan is a girl, cause at least it some what makes sense 😅 Also, guy being a complete jerk but it girl falls for him anyways. Idk if this in Anime as much as it is manga/manwhas though. This trope can be okay... but it's mostly annoying lol
If you'd be interested, I think that doing a series or just a similar video on a different anime demographic or genre could be cool since there are so many toxic tropes out there that are not necessary and the story would be much better without them. Love the video by the way ❤! Thank you for putting it out there.
@@TheAnimeTeaI think a toxic tropes video on comedy anime would be interesting since similar to how in romance anime toxic tropes are sometimes defended as harmless fantasies toxic tropes in comedy anime like harassment or harmful stereotypes are sometimes defended as just for laughs without there being bad intent. I think that this defense does not consider the fact that these toxic tropes being not only included, but in many cases not being presented as negative perpetuates them regardless of what the intent behind their inclusion was. I think that is it perfectly good to include toxic and unhealthy elements into a story as long as they are handled with care by the creator. What makes their inclusion bad is when these toxic elements are not presented as negative and even romanticized. It's sad to see so many anime that are otherwise very enjoyable include toxic tropes that kind of put a stain on the viewing experience.
@@TheAnimeTea there are many bruh the one I've in mind, female characters sexualizing and even for as stupid as it gets literally connecting it with "comedy" it's so weird and cringe at the same time 💀 like damn most female characters are just for their body not for their story like wtf In shoujo anime the characters being hella toxic and so their romance, like in wolf prince
I choose to view it as the young character being the insert showing a healthy interest in mature adults rather than the adult being the insert showing a disturbing interest in a kid. Sure wish it actually ended as a crush though
Saying that « bullies secretly love their victim » is a bit more rare but just as wrong as the more common « bullies are secretly jealous of their victim ». It’s factually wrong, ask any former bully, and yet, people hold onto this narrative as if their lives depended on it 😅
Secretely love is stupid. But about jealousy is correct cause I remember one lesbophobic woman I know once spilled beans that she envious of lesbians cause men treat her like trash but she cannot stop keep her legs closed
Nagatoro is clearly a femdom fetish thing. Anime / manga are known for fetishization, that's like one of its biggest appeals. And in Nagataro's defense, the author had to toned down the content after the first volume, the story progressively becomes more vanilla as more chapters are released, to the point that in volume 12, there's like nothing of that at all.
I wish there could be a manga that has fem-dom but just with the woman being dominant, not sadistic. Like a sweet wholesome romance with the roles switched. ya know?
...if you don't know what tropes it has, then what are you talking about? Don't get me wrong, it's very uncomfortable to watch outside of some specific mindsets, but you're not forgiven for being ignorant about what you crap on just because of that.
Personally, something that really gets to me is when the love interest is disrespectful towards the object of their affections and it's portrayed as him (or her) being flirty. It's not cute or sexy, it's just really annoying seeing this person call the protagonist a nickname they hate, insult aspects of their appearance or personality, act possessive when they show affection to other people, etc. It's even worse when that character's main redeeming quality is that they can protect the protagonist or something, and that makes the protagonist conveniently forget everything they hate about the that character and fall for them. Edit: Not to mention the casual sexual harassment that some of these love interests inflict on the protagonist, but it's portrayed as perfectly fine because they're meant to end up together.
I agree with a lot of what you said in the video. I must acknowledge my maid sama bias 😅. I think why maid sama worked is because Misaki wasn't the typical weak-willed female protagonist that couldn't make up her mind about things. She was very sure of herself (except with the maid thing, that she tried hard to get better at). She was strong but she tried to do everything on her own and that's never good; Usui's constant presence( which I can agree could be stalkerish at times) showed that he was someone that she could come to rely on, someone that wouldn't skip out on her the way her dad did to her family. Basically she had a lot of walls up so if Usui hadn't been persistent he wouldn't have gotten anywhere with her. But I can definitely see where he was a bit too possessive at times. But he got a lot better as the series progressed.
As someone who likes this show, i dont like it for those reasons, its just very cute after those rough beginnings. Anybody watching it for those reasons likely dropped it after the first season.
He used to draw all kinds of ero-doujin. The man was the kitchen sink of the doujin scene. As the legends say, however, he then encountered NaruHina with the completion of Naruto, and was... mostly converted to vanilla, which is why Nagatoro in his serialization isn't literally shattering Senpai's buttcheeks or NTR baiting him.
When she said it's an anime we forgot about, i immediately knew maid sama was gonna be it. And yes, even I tried watching don't toy with me misd nagatoro but couldn't even force myself to watch one episode and this anime was really popular when it was ongoing, and it caught me wondering that is this what people are into?
The first episode is rough and alot of people actually disliked it on that first episode, but it tones down as it goes and becomes pretty wholesome at a fairly steady pace. It still has teasing but theres more of a back and forth and its not literal bullying like in the first episode. By season 2 the teasing is very tame, and its got them being very sweet to eachother, its not a perfect series but its one of my favourites despite its obviously rough start and wont be everybodies cup of tea.
Although Nagatoro goes too far in the first episode. It’s not shown in the anime but in the manga, she immediately regrets going too far and dials her teasing back when she goes too far. She slowly dials it back and the problem is also that Nagatoro is supposed to play the sadodere trope of being sadistic and dominant. The FMC in Koikimo is 17 but that doesn’t make it any better. Although it seems like if the tropes are prevalent, they must be popular for a reason and have an audience unfortunately (maybe in Japan)
I'd also add that Nagatoro is trying to encourage the MC to become more assertive and toughen up. When he does express that she went too far, Nagatoro realizes her mistake and dials back. Basically, she is teasing him to become a stronger person and the two are basically awkward teens trying to sort out their feelings.
@@cadethumann8605 and a lot of her teasing is her being unable to express her emotions which is a normal thing for some teens to do. But ya it’s also the setup for the teasing trope of teasing too much at the start and then dialing it back
@@rajvirmalhans2073 The irony is that in the original webcomic, Nagatoro was genuinely abusive. It was even to the point where her senpai just straight up broke and just accepted the outcome. Of course, this was meant for a very niche audience that had a particular fetish. Once the author rewrote the story in his manga, Nagatoro was toned down to be more light-hearted and silly while the MC would gradually become more assertive. One thing I'd like to imagine in-universe is that the webcomic events were just inaccurate and exaggerated retellings of the two's relationship from a shifty school student.
I LOVE the BL manga Classmates, but the 4th installment in the series is.... not it. It's technically a spin off focusing on side characters from the main series, but it's listed as volume 4, which is why I got it. Turns out, it was not about the main couple, but about the teacher who was preying on and grooming one of the main characters getting into a relationship. I was a bit hopeful, thinking Oh! Maybe he actually falls in love with and gets together with someone HIS OWN AGE. But no! He gets together with a 15 YEAR OLD STUDENT!!! I only read a bit, but they either hook up or almost hook up when they first meet randomly at like a nightclub or something like that, and only after that do they find out they are student and teacher to each other, which causes "silly" situations ig. But the thing is, they DO end up together in the end! Its so gross! I was hoping the teacher would fall out of those gross habits, since the first 3 volumes shamed him for trying to groom one of the protags, but apparently its only bad if he does it to a boy who's already taken.🤦♂
Ever since I was a kid, I never understood nor liked age gaps in manga/animes romances. The more I've grown up, the more it grossed me up. It's just making me uncomfortable to think an author would be like "I could make this 15 y/o character fall in love with their senpai who is like 17/18... OR WITH THAT GUY WHO HIS THEIR TEACHER AND IS LIKE 35!!! Oh yes, that's way better!". Like, what is your message lmao? You can't tell me you did this for no specific reason when you decide to take, either a really young minor with an adult, either a barely major character with someone who is a complete adult (30+). There's gotta be a justification to that especially because most of those series don't even have "minor + adults relationships" as the main problematic. For example, a manga specifically talking about bullying as their problematic will show the aspects of it (the bullies, the victims, how it started, how it's going on each others mind, how people react to it, etc). But romance manga with age gaps usually just make it look like a totally normal love story with that one character having a superior position bc they're adult, and the ones who are opposed to their relationship are the bad ones or enventually end up accepting it. Some try to make it like it's ok just because the adult resisted enough and can now fall in love or like they're gonna wait until the character age up for getting married 💀 Or worst : they use that "Yeah but this character is so mature for their age" sentence, ugh, I just can't. (sorry if my english doesn't makes sense, I used google to help with it but it's not my language)
I also hate when it's done for no reason at all. In Fruits Basket, Uotani (17) falls in love with the rooster zodiac (I don't remember his name) who is in his mid twenties, but there is absolutely no reason for him to be that old. If he was 19 then nothing would change other than being much less gross. It's like the mangaka just made a pedo relationship for the heck of it.
Tbh if the age gap is only 1-5 yrs old For me, it will be fine as long as they: - don't overstep their bounds (like doing "that" 🤢), - they're at least in high school age, - and they respect each other boundaries But sadly alot of anime or manga doesn't abide by that rule (doing 18+ things to a minor is very uncomfortable to watch/read) Probably even western cartoons, series, or movies does that too but idk 🥲 Edit: my parents got 4 yrs differences They started dating around college years but didn't do anything disrespectful until they're married 😌
I think this happens because age gaps are common in Japan. It's common for the guy to be older than his partner too. It doesn't make it right whatsoever.
It probably helps with sales. Age gaps appear mostly in shoujo, which is targeted at girls. Most girls end up crushing or falling for older guys. Be it their teachers or some older guy they know or even a celebrity. That makes these stories more relatable and more likely to buy.
Kare kono also had this relationship they framed as wrong because it was an age gap relationship between a much younger boy an adult woman who ended up having a kid together. Which are the parents of the love interest character. Also a step sibling relationship who getting married at some point.
This video is pointless. Anime comes from Japan. Japan's culture is different from western culture. They have a lot of tropes that will be unusual for people who are not use to that kind of stuff; However, surprisingly enough, there is an audience who likes those kind of tropes hence why these animes keep getting produced. If its not your thing then don't watch it but you shouldn't throw these tropes under the bus as fact. Its all fiction. No one is actually getting hurt, used, or manipulated. Its simply a story being told. If its not your thing then keep it pushing. But just hearing about how you don't really like this kind of stuff isn't interesting cause it's obvious. Dating your stalker is bad. Teacher student relationships are bad. Incest is gross. None of this is new or interesting. So I'm just left here like. Ok.
1:07 so typical it’s always those who don’t watch nagatoro that have negative things to say about it you’re like a npc repeating others opinions without thinking by your own. i think the tropes should stay and you should go leave anime alone
My next life as a vilaness: all routes lead to doom, would be perfect if her adoptive brother wasn’t another member of the harem 😫 and adopted and all he still her biological relative like a second grade cousin or something like that, they could have him like an overprotective brother that prevents the progress of the harem members but in the anime his feelings are explicitly romantic and I can’t 😖😫wHyyYyyy?!?!!!
Man, I was kind of hoping to hear more aside from "It's weird" or "It's problematic." A lot of it really just sounded like personal icks as opposed to lazy storycrafting, incredulous developments, or nonsensical plotpoints going nowhere.
Nice video! I agree that these are tropes that need to stop unless they are explicitly showing the audience how damaging/unhealthy they are. As a teen I didn't notice but, after watching the 2019 Fruits Basket, I realized just how many age-gap relationships there were and was like...why??? Not only the two you mentioned but also ***spoilers*** Shigure and Akito since she was still a kid when he started to fall for her or would be all flirty towards her (I think they're 6 years apart). And plus the Sohmas are technically all related so it makes me wonder just how related all the couples actually are to each other lol. The series still holds a place in my heart but it was interesting to notice these things as an adult. I also recently rewatched Kodomo no Omocha (Kodocha or Child's Toy) and forgot that there were weird grooming relationships and family "dating" stuff in that too. I had to speed through all those scenes cause it made me uncomfortable. Honestly, justifying the "it's okay if their relationship is abusive because they are assassins/bounty hunters" is the same energy as thinking Joker and Harley Quinn are relationship goals lol
@@TheAnimeTea yeah Shigure and Akito's relationship has more issues than just the age gap lol. But yeah it's a shame revisiting some favorites from the 90s and 00s and seeing certain things romanticized that my child brain thought was cute or unproblematic at the time.
Eh, Kodocha is littered with PSAs *against* grooming relationships. They explicitly have a sit-down with Sana-chan to explain that her calling her manager her "pimp", and them having a cute-cozy relationship (babysitting & reading bedtime stories) isn't the same at all to a grown-up/romantic relationship. It's one of the major story milestones when Sana comes to understand that her feelings of brother/uncle affection with her manager != romantic feelings, in either direction. Sana's birth-mom serves as the cautionary tale version, since she was a teen-mom abandoned by some older, deadbeat dude. That was another huge arc in the story, and explored from some pretty frank angles. (Like Sana talking about how much she appreciated that her birth-mom chose not to have an abortion, while also having anger/mixed feels about being abandoned as a baby.) The anime never got a full release in English, so not sure how much anyone these days has seen. But back in its fansub days, Kodocha was kind of held up as a standard-bearer for discussing these kinds of hard IRL topics in a way that was still fun & kid-friendly (it ran in Nakayoshi IIRC, so figure girls age 7-13).
@@mandisaw oh cool! I didn't know those details about the series! I know there were characters talking against her "relationships" with adults but there were other instances of adults, like Zenjiro, saying things like "if you were older, I would ask you out". And that whole thing about her relationship with her biological father where Akito was literally the only one saying that it's messed up and her mother was kinda going along with all of it and hid the fact that he's her father from her since he was dying. So even after his death, she basically still believed that she was in love with him and that he was her boyfriend. I can see the commentary on grooming and predatory relationships, but I also felt like there were times where the adults kept expecting Sana to figure it out on her own and waited until much later to educate her on it. I felt like her guardians should have had those discussions with her right when they got brought up. But then I guess it would have been a plot point for only one chapter if that were the case lol. And, as you said, if the show gave the space for having those discussions with young girls then that's great! I watched the series without knowing anything about that so thanks for sharing! And I still love the series in the end even if those parts made me uncomfortable haha.
@@FancyTuna77 Oh yeah, I forgot about the dad & the whole "we're lovers" thing. Been a long while, but a wiki-refresh points that out as a bit of a clunky-insert job - Sana was a child of incest in the manga, but for the anime they had it play out differently. Seems reasonable to assume that those bits might not be handled quite as well. That said, I remember there were various arcs/plot-points where the insanity of the press, gossip, showbiz need for manufactured-drama, etc were brought up, lampshaded, and/or were causes for concern. So this could also be in that category. I'd have to rewatch it to get a fresher take - haven't seen Kodocha in almost 20yrs, I'm surprised I remember as much as I do 😅
Author notes for Fruits Basket has Natsuki Tayaka admitting she likes age gap relationships. When you reflect on it, there's more age gap couples than close age couples in the series. The close familial ties relationships in anime might be a reflection of how difficult it is to find a partner in Japan. After striking out so many times, they start looking for partners closer to home.
I read a lot of yuri manga (and similar Korean and Chinese stories). One of the largest romance trends is just straight up SA. It is very rarely treated with any respect and is instead considered hot or romantic. No. SA is never okay. Even between 2 women. Some of the most popular yuris feature straight up SA. Ex; Bad thinking diary, citrus, netsuzu trap, etc etc. I’ve only read a few that treated SA as something disgusting and unacceptable. I keep a list of yuris that don’t include sa themes (or if they do treat them with the respect they deserve). That list is SHORT.
Fruits basket also had incest. Akito sleeping with Shigure AND the rooster. Hiro and Kisa, Hatsuharu & the horse. Lots of cousin loving in that show, I'm surprised you didn't bring that up 😅 trust it's one of my favorite anime BUT all of that is weird & idk why it was so glossed over and not weird for any of the characters.
Why? Because cousin relationships are not "incest". It has to be with a blood sibling or a blood parent to be "incest". In Japan, at least. 1 out of 1000 marriages are cousin marriages. Hope that clears things up.
I take all of these with a grain of salt. Age gap ones bother me the least (depending on the story/characters' personalities), but harassment ones bother me the most. Everything else is in between but I have watched and enjoyed the majority of these tropes. To me, it mostly depends on storyline/character personalities. I NEVER took those romantic situations and "hoped" they would happen in real life. Just like Disney growing up, it was entertainment. I think in the end, you just have to be able to tell fiction from real life. Everyone has their preferences on which tropes they like, though. I LOVE the enemy to lover tropes. They're my favorite and most fun/entertaining to read/watch, but in real life?? Oh, HECK NO 🤣
age gaps dont bother you? i hope you at least give side eye to the full grown adults falling in love with their young students, like middle school and elementary. not giving that side eye is weird
@@gh02tdu2ti hope you actually read their comment, they are saying it doesnt bother them because its fiction, its really easy to not think about all the implications and just take what is presented to you. Ofcourse if we take these things and think about how it would play out in real life, they are all horrible and we wouldn't like them, but with in the contained fictional setting, many people can just easily disregard those elements to see the underlying message and appreciated it, or even enjoy such tropes because they know it isnt real. Its okay if it makes you uncomfortable, pretty normal actually and i personally find them uncomfortable but its also very easy to just treat fiction for what it is, and thats fiction, you dont have to like it but i dont think other people should be shamed or told they are wrong for not caring about elements of fiction or even liking it.
I think readers can distinguish fact from fiction in comics and anime, and as long as the trope doesn't cause PTSD in some way, it's okay to enjoy problematic fiction. (People are really good about content warnings these days, thankfully!) It would be a disservice to Fruits Basket to dismiss it entirely--its compassionate outlook, take on depression, etc.--because it has a couple of these tropes. The further back in time you go, the more problematic manga and anime can get with r*pey scenarios and things like that. My least favorite is the age gap, so overused. For a while there it seemed like I was seeing it in every other manga volume I picked up. :|
Well sure people have kinks but at least make it VERY AGE RESTRICTED and not containing any character that is CLEARLY A DEPICTION OF A LITTLE KID (cough cough)
The problem is a lot of this stuff is aimed at kids which makes it really harmful. Especially considering how common sa and pedophilic relationships are in japan
Agreed. People need to learn how to separate and distinguish fact from fiction. I like reading horror books about crazy evil serial killers, but that doesn’t mean I love them or support them in real life. Quite the opposite lol.
Thank you for talking about this and specifically maid-sama is the only one I'd seen but i HATED that show he did NOT respect her boundaries (or her) at ALL. Sickening
@@gameframeinc.3389There is an anime called "After the Rain" which did it so much better. The girl falls in love with a guy older than her, but the guy seems to love her platonically and respects her alot, as he sees his past self in her and she doesn't want her life to go to waste. It also seems like this was only something that the girl was just distracting herself from her real problems. Also they dont get together in the end or at all.
@@gameframeinc.3389 Age gap relationships _in fiction,_ even ones between a minor and an adult, are arguably feasible, when they meet two standards: 1) both characters are relatively equally mature despite the age gap 2) the younger party is the one that pursues The first objective can be accomplished by making the younger party develop into maturity-- this approach often means that the story as a whole doubles as a coming-of-age. A straightforward example of this that I like is _Neko no Otera no Chion-san,_ where the male lead's burgeoning maturity is called to the reader's attention and ultimately shines through despite his missteps, which-- paired with his desire to accept the life she leads and even live it with her, despite the sacrifices he'd be making-- also culminates in the heroine being won over in the end. Alternatively, the _older_ party can be made to be immature. This is what's done in _Call of the Night--_ the heroine is functionally indistinguishable from another teenager (especially physically) outside of her having a job and being able to drink (it "helps" that she's also a vampire, so she's already outside the conventions of human society). She doesn't really have any worldliness to leverage in manipulating the protagonist, on top of not really caring to do so in the first place because she's squeamish about seduction (a normal vampire activity in that narrative); this also parallels the protagonist's unfamiliarity with love, which also means that (particularly with the protagonist's goal early on in the story) they mature together. Speaking of leveraging worldliness, the accomplishment of the second objective is an indication to the audience that the older party is unwilling (or even unable) to use what power they have to even attempt to coerce the younger party. They're being carried along by the strong will of the younger party, who by themselves-- without any adverse influence from or exploitation by the adult-- decided that they want to be in an intimate relationship with them. "Shiota-sensei and Amai-chan" has a straightforward example of this (while also being teacher/student)-- the man barely indicates attraction to the heroine, and of course doesn't use any of his teacher privileges to facilitate any kind of relationship with her, let alone the one they have. He's also absolutely willing to break off their relationship at the slightest suspicion of others, and in the interest of avoiding that, he has hard boundaries on physical affection regardless of whether they're alone. She mainly clings to him rather than the other way around, as if he just gave up and submitted to her will. Generally, an objective in the writing of the age gap relationship is to have it be-- as much as possible-- a conventional relationship, despite the context of the age gap. Thus, it's necessary to address the major (and intertwined) "extenuating circumstances" in such relationships: worldliness and power imbalance. People will react especially negatively to age gap relationships if the older party has a marked advantage over the younger party _that they exploit--_ thus the "life experience" and "power" complaints. Furthermore, relationships where those issues exist arguably can't function as anything but a pornographic premise in the first place. It's as if they're simultaneously not on a level playing field while one party makes ball passes the other can't catch without being hurt. It *needs* to be recognized that, in real life, we punish statutory r(a)pe under the absolutely rational assumption that the child was coerced into that situation, by someone we normally expect them to trust-- an adult. We don't actually know everything underlying the case, we can't for certain, _and we don't have to in the first place._ In fiction, an author has the benefit of being able to showcase every single building block in a given relationship between two characters, and so the parties become more sympathetic when it's clear that they're actually being seduced by a minor-- as irresponsible as that may be, this is still in the context of fiction so it's very easy to not care about real-life consequences that don't exist. It's also easy to, in fiction, make less matter than what would in real life-- though, actually having the characters be aware of the context of their relationship and account for future matters like marriage or work despite their deciding on a relationship is something that can buy goodwill from the audience (cf. "Promise Cinderella", where the female lead is a 27 year old divorcee and the male lead a 17 year old high schooler). There... is a double standard to this though, but it's something that one has to live with: because women are seen by men and other women alike to intrinsically have less "power" than a man, age gap relationships (in my observation) tend to go down much more smoothly when it's the _woman_ that's older, and there's also more leeway for greater differences in ages-- you might have even noticed that two out of three of my examples have older female leads. That said, I'm only a novice to the shoujo and josei categories, so older man/younger woman might actually be popular in them despite my lack of awareness of such.
@@gameframeinc.3389 meet each other, interact a lot, experience situations that convince then that they are destined to be together, speak of it to their parents and marry
I also thinks Vampires are weird in animes. They married their sisters or, if your really unlucky, constantly drink your blood and trat you as food AS WELL as harassing you everyday. It happend in Diabolik lovers. Every vampires except Subaru, are cruel with the heroine. I find her situation sad but can't love her because she is stupid. The girl let them attacking her, she had a weapon who can hurt them and never use it. Her life is always in danger, she could kill a vampire but won't for some reason 🤔I can't root for her or wish she escaped the manor if she never tries. It's so hard to find one quality this naive girl has.
Selfish to change a trope you don’t like so others can’t enjoy it. There’s stuff out there I like that’s not popular. Not gonna force others to fit my wants, just have to look for it
When I was in Japan in the 1990s when I was in the military stalking was a real big problem. Now the Japanese government has made some steps to try to crack down on it but from what I've seen it's still a problem.
Worst trope for me is when Female lead gets with the toxic/asshole male lead in the end totally forgetting about the 2th male lead which is always better/best in comp lol🗿☠️
One of My favorite anime romance is Yor and Loid. Because they genuinely care about each other and help each other and neither is overshadowed. I’m also interested in Go for it nakurma and several Yaoi series and I’m in love with the villannesa. Yuri is my job and a few other yuri shows.
@TheAnimeTea I had the wrong impression with the first episode of Nagatoro, but if you have the resolve, it really picks up. The reason she's annoying is that she's trying to overcome the communication barrier with paisen, as they're polar opposites and she actually has a lot of affection for him.
I remember first hearing the premise of nagatoro and thinking “oh, so it’s just a less wholesome Takagi-San for guys who want to get bullied” (or possibly want to convince themselves that they have a chance with the girl who hates their guts, ಠ_ಠ)
I don’t know why this is in my recommended and perhaps I shouldn’t comment, lest the algorithm gives me more videos like this, but… Nagatoro is literally just a kink. As are most “weird” tropes. “Why is the love interest bullying the protagonist?” Because the target audience likes it, “Why incest?” Because the creator likes it, “why so many age gaps?” because a lot of people had crushes on people older than them, “why teacher/student?” because enough people like the dynamic for it to sell I mean, yes, sure, if we’re talking about real life, harassment isn’t a love confession. But why *do* they need to go from anime? Fiction is a safe and controlled environment. People are still going to like these things whether they disappear from anime or not. You literally can’t get safer than fiction. The best you (general you) can do is ignore them and watch the anime that caters to your personal kinks/preferences
Oh boy, I surely miss an actual good romance. I like cliché troups when they're done correctly (like the bad boy, monster and human, enemies to lovers...) but guess what, most of times they're not done well! Gosh, I've even seen hentai portrait it better than Anime 😭
Have you ever considered... watching animes that DO have what you want? There isn't anything more nasty than demanding all creators to bend their preferences to yours instead of trying to look for content you actually like
I'm not currently watching any romance anime. I feel that they all have a similar formula, lack depth and there is a lot of toxicity. So the only thing I'm following is Bungou Stray Dogs, Blue Lock, Viland Saga and Buddy Daddies 🥺
My Happy Marriage is surprisingly good at exploring how trauma affects people and how they heal from these experiences alongside its' romance. There's Insomniacs After School and Bouquet for an Ughly Girl; both seinen but actually quite wholesome considering the demographic they come from.
I love this video soo much! A lot of these tropes are annoying AF to deal with! Just Ugh!! And for part 2, you should definitely talk about how Female characters will physically abuse male MC Characters for trivial things or for even talking to another girl even though said character isn't even with them as of yet. They also overreact to misunderstandings or situations that are accidents and most times don't even apologize for it. Examples of this include Baka and Test, My Familiar Zero, and several other harem anime series that I can't remember the names of. I'll try to find them and then edit this comment with them 😊
Some more examples include: Love Hina, Mayo Chiki, A certain magical index, Girls Bravo, Love Tyrant, ranma 1 and a half, Tsugumomo, Working!! & You lie in April.
@@wolfboy20 im not sure exactly what ep, but I do remember hori getting jealous cause her lil bro saw miyamura with a girl linking arms she started to get pissy with him but tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. miyamura eventually tries to explain but hori gets even madder when she finds out he knows her name
In terms of like the harassment thing and the stalking, while normally I'd agree. The anime you mentioned are specific situations and it is valid to say that because they are murderers/people in unique situations, it doesn't mean it isn't sometimes there to give a certain perspective on the story i.e. people who's relationships are based on harassment. I think that a certain amount unless it's being like excessive or extreme is excusable because the whole point is that it's kind of a fantasy as well. Japanese people can be very closed off, people don't really express love to one another in the same way we do. Anime is a good medium to express those wild emotions and concepts in a unique way. People can separate these weird situations in anime from real life. When it comes to age gaps, I definitely think that is something that is a bad thing for teens to take in. Culturally, that is something that has been happening for years. Thankfully, you don't see many anime like that, especially recently. And with the sibling stuff that has also died down quite a bit over the years. So I think they aware of these issues and there are other anime out that don't have these kind of troupe or to a lesser extent.
I'm a yaoi/ BL diehard and I was so happy to see the R***y start to fade out and then some ppl started to bring it back, luckily most, but not all, have used it to establish a clear line between healthy and unhealthy relationships/ therapize readers. Still something we can do away with for the most part.
1:08 “I haven’t seen the series, only seen a few seconds” You’ve just invalidated any points you were going to make about the series. If you haven’t watched or read it you don’t get to comment.
I don't agree. telling artist they shouldn't play with taboos is a problem. Artists shouldn't have to hide their weird ideas even if those ideas are demed imorral.
And people should have the right to have critique on their suggestive art. Yk, everyone’s an artist, but not everyone should voice their ideas if they are clearly immoral
@@Shortestcoment You can't say "don't take my words out of context" when nobody's taking your words out of context. "Not everyone should voice their ideas" is very much censorship. "People should be allowed to voice their ideas and others should be allowed to critique them" is criticism. This video advocates the former.
@@seg162 Taking words out of context, basically quoting me while ignoring the rest of the sentence. You literally just did it again. "not everyone should voice their ideas IF THEY ARE CLEARLY IMMORAL. As for the rest, if you agree on the fact that this is criticism, then what's wrong with it? Claiming something is wrong is nowhere near censorship, its the root of criticism.
@@Shortestcoment You incorrectly believe your qualification matters as to whether you're advocating censorship, when it only serves to justify the censorship you advocate. It doesn't matter what reason you have, you're still advocating censorship. That's where communication is breaking down. Secondly, I don't agree that this is criticism as much as it is a futile call for censorship. Did you not recognize what was meant by "the former"?
On the issue of age gaps, there was also the one of Shigure and Akito in Fruits Basket that was weird honestly. Shigure was supposed to be like 26 or 28 and Akito was essentially a high schooler. Didn't help that their dynamic was toxic too, with both trying to make the other regret not being with them so that they would be theirs alone. And they slept together.😅 Not to mention Akito was clearly not in her right mind. It was clearly shown through Shigure's monologues that he wanted her for himself and would do whatever it took, even at the expense of others like letting Tohru handle all the stuff with trying to break the curse. Also in how he said he hated Kureno just because he was always at Akito's side (was never allowed to leave) and even slept with her out of pity🙈 . A direct contrast would be the relationship between Kureno (same age as Shigure) and the blonde friend of Tohru (forgot her name) where they were in better states of mind and more mature about their choices and feelings. It was a VEEERYY open anime on the subjects of the types of romances and obsessions there can be. That not all romances are healthy. I guess that was one of the main aims. It DID leave me wondering how Shigure and Akito would work out their lives with each other because they got together after the curse was lifted, and each still clearly had issues with their perception of love.🫤
How about you pack it in with that pathetic argument. Stop trying to downplay problematic stuff just because it's from another Country (because last time I checked, that is not a magical "makes stuff okay" button). You personally not being bothered by these tropes doesn't mean people aren't allowed to criticise them.
"I don't like these tropes." Then don't watch the animes that have them. Problem solved. You simply dislike the tropes which is fine, almost everyone has tropes they dislike. But to demand they must go, despite there being fans of these animes, is wrong.
In defense of vampire knight. They're not human, more akin to monsters so the in#est didn't bother me too much. But I do occasionally enjoy the often overused forbidden love trope so thats a good part of my feelings for it. I also read it back in my teens in 2008 during the big vampire craze( and I was super invested in Twilight too). They're both part of the reason I love vampire stories. My favorite vampire manga ( with a better romance) is chibi vampire( karin) which I read and loved around the same time. The romance is gradual and very sweet. I honestly wish it got an anime that followed the manga to completion. Instead it opted for an anime only story and a character that doesn't even exist in the manga. Matsuri Hino's earlier manga before vampire knight,captive hearts is a fun read as well. It's got older tropes like a master servant relationship( due to magic) but it tends to lean more toward comedy which I think Hino is better suited for.
Bruh I feel you, I'm always craving for a good vampire story that not straightforward porn. About that, I hope you didn't miss Bloody sweet, it's a masterpiece imo. Perfect dose of everything, no worries it's not creepy, they love each other a lot
I finally read the original series a few months ago, and tbh, I found it very disappointing that the author didn't take time to flesh out the side characters (I found myself not even caring if they died or not) nor took the time to fully develop the world building aspect revolving around vampire society. I found Kaname could have potentially to been an interesting character if we got to see his character develop in the past (from a lord to a general to a vampire king, etc.) than what we were given with, which was a dude who was worn down by life and fully depressed, which fair, but he just seemed like a flat character in my eyes; if it didn't revolve with Yuki, dude was just sad. Yuki, while she did grow (somewhat?) as a character, she was more reactionary than anything; her actions were never catalytic. Instead, her very being was a catalyst within itself, which I deemed as lazy writing. As for Zero? He was way more interesting and I believe he shouldn't have been weighted down by Yuki tbh and his potential to be a protagonist that shows strife between morals and values in the midst of war as someone trapped between humanity and vampirism and the entire political aspect of it was wasted 😭 Idk, I just think VK had more potential if it revolved either as a historical manga that takes part in developing the vampire knight organization and Kuran Kingdom, or if it has to take place in modern times, then the characters should have been aged-up as younger/older adults so that the world could have expanded beyond the academy's walls. I also found it rather pointless of Cross's existence considering as a headmaster and parent he perpetually continued to fail to protect his students and children from danger on the bases that he promised he couldn't interfere with vampire stuff 😫 like, then what was the point of Yuki getting adopted by this dude if the only thing actually protecting her was just Zero and Kaname? Idk, every single relationship in the original series felt forced/rushed to me (from romantic ones to platonic and familiar ones). I couldn't ship Yuki with zero because to me it seems he only liked her by default (that she was the only girl/person around his age to help him as a kid and know his secret). So, that just tells me, from a narrative standpoint, if Zero has more options, it could have either been anyone else and that zero might have not fallen in love with Yuki in the first place if he was rightfully provide with the safety net/environment/services any traumatized child in his shoes should have been given. I didn't ship Yuki with Kaname because it was manipulative to a degree and the fact incest was involved but also because it seems like the relationship itself didn't do anything for the both of them: they didn't grow as people, nor tried to improve each other; Yuki grew complacent with Kaname's harmful behavior (harmful both to himself and others) while Kaname in return wanted her to be the one to change and fit into his ideal version of a romantic partner despite failing to meet Yuki's own ideals and fully knowing that. It was two people (one who was an underaged 16 y.o. teen btw) that were obsessed with each other and that's it. As for the side characters, we don't really know what the heck these characters actually do in their spare time (no hobbies or anything). So, as mentioned earlier, they were all flat characters to me: no one had a chance to have their own character arc, which was a shame. Hence, because I felt nothing for any characters, I didn't even feel invested to the romantic triangle. I wanted to see the politics side of it and just see how it ends. It wasn't bad, the ending, but I didn't feel fulfilled. Rather I felt empty, wanting-expecting more from it. My love for VK is superficial because all I can see is how much potential it had as a historical, drama, slice of life anime that touch on subjects like philosophy, morals/values and political war with just a dash of a love life involved, maybe. But I hate how empty it made me feel at the end for how much of its potential was wasted 😭💔 I struggled for weeks having to come to terms with that fact and now I hesitate to pick up VK's sequel.
OK, girl. I hear ya. These tropes suck. First, From up on Poppy Hill does not promote being in love with a family member. It takes the topic seriously. The couple distance each other when they find out. In the end it happens they weren't actually related anyways. Going to Don't Toy with me Miss Nagatoro, I was getting sketchy vibes from the first episode too. Keep watching. It's actually really good. The characters are opposites who are young and neither knows how to interact with people. They both coax each other out of their shells and they both grow together as people. The first episode is done from a schewed view. It's from the guys perspective, where he thinks she's beyond terrible, where a lot of it is on him being over sensitive and dramatic. (I was like that too, and had to learn to grow a backbone) The girl just wants attention from him and doesn't know how to go about it. She seen his artwork and thinks it's great. She just can't say it. Great videos though. I'm going on a binge of your channel.
I don’t like weird age gap ships or abusive shit so thanks I’ll see myself out and I usually do after an episode of an anime I’m watching ever features something like that.
Ok as someone who has seen nagatoro, and has seen the mangaka previous explicit works, it honestly was pretty tame comparatively. It also gets also more wholesome later on in the story. All in all it is a shounen so I will admit it follows alot of the tropes in the demographic, but I feel the introduction gives it a worse rep than it actually is.
The intro was def the worse considering Senpai was pushed to tears, but def can attest it gets more wholesome later on. The original webcomic was prob the worse Nagatoro in regards to the bullying.
@@CompSomAnichi yeah like in the original webcomic I heard it was supposed to be a short story where the senpai eventually commits suicide, but the mangaka was told to make it more wholesome which im glad he did haha.
@@tomibello5831 I'M SORRY SENPAI COMMITS WHAT NOW?? I DIDN'T REMEMBER THAT PART OF THE WEBCOMCI ONLY THE AWFUL AWFUL BULLYING BUT MAN, LUCKILY THE MANGA DIDN'T TURN OUT THAT WAY
@@phoenixxxashez "What if the genders were reversed?" Wonder no further-- I can't so much as spit without hitting 250 romance shoujo with a similar dynamic and relationship trajectory. Don't even get me started on the josei, where the male lead is often just straight _assaulting_ the heroine. _Repeatedly._ *_And that's their relationship until she gives in._* Clearly, there's an audience for all of these.
Yep, I'm seeing the weak arguments they're desperately trying to use, like "it's just fiction" or "it's a different culture so shut up" and my favourite one "don't like don't watch". "Anime was a Mistake" has never been a more correct saying.
Card captor Sakura had a lot of teacher student relationships and age gaps for example Sakuras friend fell in love with her teacher (the friend is 10 years old) the teacher and the girl end up marry when she’s 18 which is gr$$ming also with sakuras dad and her mom her mom was his student and her dad was a teacher but those are the relationships I remember that are problematic to me
Some dysfuntional romances ive encountered The Black Prince and Wolf Girl (girl lies to her friends about having a boyfriend and guy she snaps a pic of agrees to be her boyfriend if she acts likes his dog/is his personal errand girl), My Little Monster (a damaging side of the trope that opposites attract. The characters do not balance each other imo and the male character has some dysfunctional traits). The one age gap story that i enjoyed was Taiyou no Ie where the girl is the childhood friend of the love interest and his siblings. Her parents divorce and the fallout leads to her living with the family that she grew up with in her younger years. The love interest is much older and of age now and is essentially taking care of his siblings now. Ill have to read it to see if it still appeals ro me now but at the time i found it wholesome despite the obvious tropes of it sounding pretty suspicious. Both the age gap and her being practically adopted into that family albeit just in her last year of high school.
Generally agree with what you're saying in this video, but I always thought the relationship in Mirai Nikki was supposed to be cautionary, not romantic/aspirational. Like, the longer you watch that anime, the more you find out how absolutely horrible all the characters are, especially the mains. It's a good anime in my opinion, but not very romantic...
Hey I'm new here to your channel! Loved the video and your thoughts, just a few questions/thoughts of my own. 1) Favorite or go to teas? 😂😁 2) I watched all of domestic girlfriend, and I've never regretted anything more in my life. Idk why i thought it would get good or turn out okay, it absolutely did not. I wouldn't condemn my worst enemies to watch that dumpster fire. 3) Age gap is a huge no go for me, i dont hear people talk about it very much personally, but its a PROBLEM. I do wanna ask though if you've seen Higehiro? It was something that took me by surprise, but was an interesting watch. It's not the usual super creepy age gap thing, but something very different, idk how to truly feel about it.
Serious things, such as abuse, the death of a relative, or unfaithfulness being treated as a gag. Sometimes it even goes as far as to treat assult as comedy. I understand that in the right situation it can get a laugh, but if you raise your audience to laugh at these things, youll inevitably create anime fans who will never take them seriously. At the very least, these tropes can stand to be more self aware about themselves before making jokes of these things. I dont have a problem with dark humor, but again...The issue comes with awareness, which these tropes often fail at. The same way one would be offended if an oblibious person (not of color) told a racist joke towards people of color, these dark topics require the appropriate awareness and respect.
I made a follow up video to the feedback I got in this video: ua-cam.com/video/zoKVA4C-9ok/v-deo.html
Should there be a Part 2?
Hey all! I had to cut this down from a much longer video (40 minutes)! So if you want to hear me ramble more about romance anime tropes that I hate and better story set-ups they should be replaced with, I uploaded the mostly unedited clip to Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/tired-romance-79246461?Link&
go for it🙃
YES!!!
Yes please!!!!! And thank you for your hardwork, I really like how you execute most of your videos as well as your voice!
yes please!
PLEASE discuss the pedophilia problem in doukyuusei😭 I love the movie/manga in general but it has SUCH a big flaw when it comes to the teacher esp in the spin off
I hate how often manga makes a "romantic" moment the female lead gets sexually harassed and the male lead saves/defends her. This isn't romantic; it's a terrible situation that you'd never want to remember even if a good guy helps you.
Edit: Stop the strawmanning in the replies. No, this isn’t an attack on anyone who likes this trope. I’m just really annoyed at how often it happens in anime to the point that it’s expected that anyone who helps a female character out of sexual harassment is automatically assumed to be a love interest and not just a decent human being that everyone should be without expecting romantic feelings in return. And I know that a lot of women like this trope too. This doesn’t change how annoying it is to me personally
Yeah that happens often in shoujo anime
@@nhankhai5272 you mean shounen
@@thatwasmethere3526 shoujo
THIS ONE! Why would I feel like getting romantic or feel like getting it on, when some person literally just assaulted me?! Like, that $hit is the LAST THING I want to be doing! It's another garbage trope in videogames too.
For real! I remember watching SAO when I was like 12, where there was a scene like that and I didn’t see anything wrong with it, it just made me think “omg kirito is so cool for saving her.” Now, I think it’s disgusting, having to make such a scene, degrading what could have been a powerful and good female lead just to make Kirito seem cooler. That scene was honestly so unnecessary.
To me, the worst thing about Koi kimoi is not about their age gap but seeing a playboy going after an innocent girl. They use others for fun and now want someone pure for themselves? They don't deserve that. It's freaking disgusting.
Excellent point.
And sometimes they get get mad when they think she is not pure (misunderstandings)
Pure? Wtf does that even mean? Gross.
Watch *Monster* (Anime/Manga) since we're talking about Animes.
@@davidarvingumazon5024 Oh that one. Yeah, it's in my watchlist so I'll check it out.
“Your teacher, your mentor, or some random dude that you met off the street is not your love interest.” YES, YES, TRIPLE YESS!!!
........ I mean why exactly? Random encounters are a good way to meet people.
@@tracphonevirtualmagazine also a good way to get murder, kidnapped and trafficked but you do you.
More like someone much older is not a good match, doesn't have to be a stranger or teacher/mentor, it's just those are who kids are most likely to encounter.
@@mandisawcorrection: someone older is not a good match for YOU.
@@Darth_Bateman No, for anyone. As a teen, it's a massive power imbalance, bordering on abuse. As an adult, too large a gap means you're not at the same phase of life. You're out of sync mentally, emotionally, possibly physically, depending how large a gap. It can seem fine at first, but of course, the impacts of aging accelerate as you get older - even a healthy 65yo is gonna slow down a 40yo.
If you're older & genuinely care about the other person & their needs, then you want them to be with someone compatible with a robust life - even if that's not you. If you're younger, you owe it to yourself to grow fully as a person, and find your own path/identity first. Or worse in either case, sacrificing your life to be a do-over in someone else's. That's not a healthy basis for a relationship, no matter who you are.
Age gap is fine… when it isn’t between children and working adults
Exactly what I thought...😂
Age gap is fine....when it isn't real.
Age gap is not fine. Im in my thirties and have no desire to be hit on by old geezer agecof my father
To any teenagers watching this: If a grown person shows interest in you romantically, ask yourself, “why do the men/women their age want nothing to do with them?” They want a younger partner that’s less experienced at noticing red flags. This still applies if you’re 18/19 and someone who’s 30 or older shows interest in you. I’ve seen so many horror stories, it doesn’t matter if you’re “legal”; it’s not worth it.
U make zero sense, tho it make sense ur a kid so u wouldn’t know much. Age gaps are completely fine when ur an adult. So I suggest u speak again
i mean im 13 and im not dumb enough to fall for it
I think it's more about associating youth with beauty & energy or them trying to revive their younger years, still highly inappropriate.
when i was 13, i was not that dumb. but then i remembered some children always crave attention even if it means from the wrong source, even if it is a big risk. they will take the risk just to know what it is like. i really don't know how to advice these children to love themselves.
some even watch toxic relationships on the media and shows and think on "well, it is better than being alone". which is really sad to me.
I'm glad you also mentioned 18-19 year olds. People really think this rule applies to 17 and below as if 18 and 19 is really that different from 17.
I can tell you, the harassment thing is SO annoying. Yes, teasing in a relationship is normal I'd say but just to an extend and if both parties know it's just for fun/a joke (me and my husband do that often but it is nowhere near sth like e.g. in Nagatoro). I HAVE actually often been harassed as a child by boys, also had to listen to this stupid ""He likes you!" comment and you knew what happened? I still have problems when talking to men because I was so often laughed and bullied at 20 years later. I still couldn't shake off having a very bad view of men in general, too (though the same goes for women, I also had bad experiences with females in school...).
don't you think comparison in real life and anime is a bit off the track? since the reason why they do it is because it is anime, a fiction. That's why they are able to make of exaggerated silly jokes or do you prefer anime to be more realistic?
Bullying is not romantic
@@1nfinity513Yes.
You lucky you had bad experiences with males and females at school only. I barely remember my school days. It was nothing memorable. Really bad experiences come in adulthood
@@1nfinity513art is reflection of real life. Reflection of personal views of creators and sending messages. Thats why in dictatorships so many attention payed by authorities to censorship and propaganda to shape opinions and overview of society
The worst age Gap Romance offender is Cardcaptor Sakura between Rika Sasaki and Mr. Terada. They literally pair an Elementary school girl with a 30 something year old teacher and they both plan to marry once she comes of age. I really don't know what Clamp was thinking back then.
Wait I thought it was an unrequited schoolgirl crush from Rika I didn't know Mr terada reciprocated???? EWWWWW
@@voidnoidoid It the Japanese dub version and it is in the manga.
CLAMP had a thing for characters being hot for teachers, because ALL of the hot for teachers pairings happened. Sakura's parents, Eriol and his student, and Toya and his teacher all happened too. No one in universe thinks this is bad, except Sakura's aunt, but it's painted as her being in a love triangle. It's when The Flower gets used, so that Sakura's aunt and father make up.
There is also one episode where Sakura's grandfather is angry at Fujitaka (Sakura's father) for marrying his daughter. The episode ends with her grandfather accepting what happened, which is dumb because he had a right to be mad because of the age gap.
Wait noo I was planing to watch that anime😭
I'm personally tired of 'the girl is gorgeous, the guy is just some guy' especially if they double down and make the girl smart, athletic, popular, student council president, or all of the above. certainly not as egregious of the stuff mentioned in this video, but once you start noticing it, it's like almost every show.
What's wrong with it though?
@@Weyland_Punanino it’s shonen. Anime for lonely guys
@@Weyland_Punani Let me say, I've encountered some adult women in comments in Por* site, they actually like y'know y'know they imagine their past selves and doing with older than them. It's dark, but only few people in Surface Web was aware of them. Also, I don't think I'd see a thread around the internet addressing about these type of ppl. I'm just addressing this to a random person, because for trivia.
@@Weyland_Punani in shonen mc is a loser and girl is gorgeous
@@Weyland_Punani well yes, but we talking about shonen where guy is a loser
I despise the trope where sexual assault is considered “romantic” moments. One of the worst offenders is Tokyo Mew Mew. I recently read it out of nostalgia, and was horrified at how rapey and disturbing the men were. It completely ruined my childhood memories of that show. 😭
No freakin way cause i was about to rewatch it 😭😭
@@officiallytrustissues5411at least in the reboot (haven’t watched season 2 tho) Aoyama hasn’t had any red flag moments, and in the series’ defense I don’t think Ichigo ever showed mutual attraction to Quiche
Regarding Ouran though, the beach episode was such a stain on the series and I’ve never been able to like Kyoya since
Remember, the manga didn't change, you did.
Are you talking about the green haired guy in Tokyo meow meow who is kinda the villan?
I just don't remember much about the anime so I just want to make sure
@WaluigiFan1600 yeah this guy
The green haired guy
Is that the person they are talking about?
Why are there so many people talking about how "problematic" the men are in anime when the women are just as bad. Like how overly jealous and possessive they can get to downright abusing them for things out of their control. I can't tell you how much I hate the stupid trope of women hitting the man they like just because another girl looked his way or something and it isn't even their fault.
In all honesty they are just as if not more disgusting.
I agree, but weird behaviours coming from women are the results of men's awkward attitude towards them. I think that is why they behave like that, or have male traits they don't like. Some of them though are like that, not all.
@missstranger7697 That is still no excuse to start physically assaulting someone just because they have an "awkward attitude" or because of someone's traits you don't like. That's abuse and still wrong no matter if you're a man or woman.
@@missstranger7697you give me the most moder feminist talk point ever! Sure only men are at fout for women being pieces of sh***t ofc ofc!
Yea, the tsundere trope makes my skin tingle it's nuts.
cough cough, toradora.
One scene that traumatize me about maid -sama was usui giving a hickey on misaki back bc he didn't want her to be seen in swimsuit in front of her friends.
Usui fits the "damaged boyfriend" archetype, and there are a *lot* of those. Great for drama, makes some great stories - but terrible IRL.
Classic examples are Ren from Skip Beat, Doumyouji from HanaDan/Boys over Flowers, and the guy from Itazura na Kiss (Mischievous Kiss / It started with a Kiss).
They all fall somewhere on the spectrum between jerk-with-heart of gold, to abuse-victim with a warped understanding of how to express love, to outright abusive a*hole who the heroine/MC stays with for "reasons". Which flavors you find acceptable in a story is largely going to be subjective, but agreed that it can teach the wrong lessons to impressionable readers.
yeahhh thar never sat right with 9 year old me ://
man i remember telling my friends about the massive ick i got from that scene n they all replied with some flavor of 'it was one of the best parts of the show'
@@awolawol4165 I don't know your life 😇 But 9 is too-young maybe? Hickeys, and the pros/cons of possessive play vs actual DV/controlling behavior is not something I'd expect anyone to grasp fully at that age.
@@rahma6992 Everyone's kink is different 😅 For contrast, there's a scene in Skip Beat where Ren is freaking-out Kyoko and slipping out of character into an aggressive/forward "persona" [dude has identity issues, that's his series/arc plot].
She defuses the actual-danger by shifting into in-character sexy roleplay mode, and Ren, now in his mostly-right-mind, *asks* her to give him a hickey (on his chest, IIRC).
Kyoko makes a hilariously awkward and not-at-all sexy attempt at it [she has issues with love, in all forms, that's her series arc], and they hug/relax, which brings the whole thing back into the audience's comfort-zone.
It's in the Top 5 fan-favorite scenes of the series, though I'm sure the whole thing would turn-off many folks. It's a series geared at this point to an older audience, there for the crazy ride, so def not for 9yo kids [I hope!]. Everyone's gonna be different, and that's ok :)
One trope that I see time and time again is where the guy is straight up abusive (usually verbally) to the female protag/Love Interest and it just played off like "oh he just needs to be loved because he had [insert tragic event in the past ᴛᴍ) happened" like it's an excuse for his absive behaviour.
There was one anime (the name escapes) where it shows the entire relationship from when this couple went to high school together all the way to them getting married and having a child and this guys is emotionally (and physically at times) abusive the ENTIRE TIME, and it just played off as "romantic" because she stuck by this human shaped trashheap.
This trope that women have to "fix" these broken trash men needs to die 💀🔪
Ch- chile, what anime is that?
please, don't tell me it's itazura no kiss
@@floffnie That's the one!
I COULD MAKE A COLLEGE DISERTATION ABOUT HOW HORRIBLE ITAZURA NO KISS IS
Wolf girl and black prince is also WHOLLY applicable to this description. Man i hated that show
Speaking of the age gap trope, I'm so TIRED of the type of trope where the female lead has a more viable romance interest in their age range, who is more endearing anyway, and still chose the too-much-older-than-them love interest (I'm looking at you Mei-chan's butler). Or a still-minor character revealed they used to have relationship with a much older person yet that adult isn't painted as a predator but like a tragic love story. Like, why.
Another trope I'm really bumped about is "yes they're elementary schooler, but we understand that their love can move the world and we should make it more seriously than it should" (Cardcaptor Sakura and Gakuen Alice are examples that popped up in my mind rn). They're KIDS, please chill.
BRO LITERALLY!!!! LIKE IN KOIKIMO IT MADE ME SO MAD WHEN THE MC REJECTED THE PERFECT KIND CUTE SECOND LOVE INTEREST BOY WITH WHOM SHE HAD SO MUCH IN COMMON WITH WND WHO’S OF HER AGE AND WENT ON TO DATE THE SCUMBAG TEN YEARS OLDER THAN HER LIKE EWWW
The fact that ALL the hot for teacher pairings in Cardcaptor Sakura are canon make me uncomfortable. Sakura's parents are student and teacher. Eriol and his student, Toya and his teacher, and Mr. Terada and his student are all messed up and they're all played for romance and in universe, Sakura's aunt is the only one with an issue with Sakura's parents and it's played as her being the hypotenuse in a love triangle. But it's okay, because The Flower gets used and everyone understands the power of love now.
Indeed. I cant imagine being like fifteen or eighteen and having love interest who in their thirties. Im in my thirties niwdays and there is no way Id go after someone age of my dad. Is disgusting
One of the tropes I hate the most is when the FL is just stupid. She has no redeeming qualities except being your basic mary sue, innocent type of girl. The ML is usually mean/rude, and the FL tries to see the "good" in him and ignores all the red flags. This happens in a lot of reverse harems and it's just annoying seeing how dumb the FL truly is.
Like kiss him not me
The FL there is a fetizerer to men being friends and fetishized gay men in her fantasies. One of her lines were “even my classmates are not safe from my fantasies.”
I think normal harems are just as terrible honestly. The main character is a whiny entitled loser that somehow gets dozens of women to lust over him just by existing and being a toxic good for nothing. Ecchi and Harem stuff ruin pretty much every story imo.
Yeah. I feel like an intelligent person has some duty not to pursue relationships with idiots. I don't understand what some men like so much about stupid people.
So she behaves like an actual woman.
When talking about age gap relationships, it really disturbed me after I read what happens in the manga of "Usagi Drop". I really enjoyed the anime as it did not adapt the part of the show where they begin to fall in love. Like Daikichi raised Rin as a daughter which makes their romance so odd and honestly not acceptable.
I think the author just wanted her manga to be talked because of the controversy
And it worked
WTH ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! I always loved Usagi Drop anime, I thought it was so tender and cute family dynamic even if it's also sad but, even seeing comments talking about some weird shit happening in the manga, I've always avoided getting spoiled since I thought I'll read the manga one day... DAMN, I fcking screamed when I read your comment, I'm never gonna recover from that 😭 Why would the author do such a fcked up thing? I now understand why people were talking crazy about the manga, all those years not knowing, omg... I can't believe it, this is just too much 💀
HE BATHED THAT KID OMG NO, JUST NO
@@EduardoFlores-bt4fonah that's a cop out. Why write it in? It's like when writerz through in r*pe scene and leave it in the air. What are the consequences of doing thay? How does it affect the little girl that she was groomed?
When you write something like that and make it sweet you're sending a message, a wrong message.
@@lordtette this is a non answer, what did you try to say
*pulls a gun*
Which one of you said the forbidden anime?
I’m not mad. I just wanna know who.
My Little Monster really got under my skin because the guy clearly disrespected everything the main character wanted for herself. The first time he ignored her explicitly stated wish to be left to focus on her studies and pushed himself into her life until his animal brain got so upset that he lashed out and she got accidentally punched, I tried to brush it off but when it happened again I realized there was no "fixing" this dude.
I have a possible theory that the guy has autism or adhd, but honestly I agree when I read and finished the manga. They could honestly be good friends but I felt like it wasnt the best romantic relationship
It's so interesting how, even though it's a fictional some readers might've excused the first red flag of abuse, at least you realised you can't fix him. But a lot of women irl are in similar relationships and think the same.
Sorry, i'm just rambling. Made me realise how easy it is to slip into an abusive relationship
No cuz I was so mad when he threatened to r@pe her like bro she’s not gonna fall in love if you do that you crazy person like there was no fixing him because he keeps making so much mistakes and has some issues
@@officiallytrustissues5411no mfer who says that is redeemable. I like this girl so i threatened to s a her. What the actual fuck.
I'm amazed the series is a shojo one.
I'm tired of starving for shojo romance and forced to deal with shonen romance trash.
(If you don't already know those) I recommend you Koaru Hana wa Rin to Saku, Skip and Loafer, Sweat* and Soap (or just all Yamada Kintetsu works), Mobuko no Koi, A sign of Affection and Otonari ni Ginga, maybe you'll like one of those!
Oh and Insomniacs after school too!
1) you can always read shojo manga, they don't stop existing just because they're unpopular
2) shojo and shounen aren't inheritly better than each other, heck many anime in this video are shojo lol
@@mysmallnoman I noticed shojo and josei tend to get adapted into live action dramas.
@@ProudPlatypus because they barely have any plot so it's just better to make them live action
ONG BRO. it’s acc so infuriating
I see a lot of people complain when the girl gets harrased and I agree its horrible and gross that its shown as "romantic".
But it also goes when the guy gets harrased its just as gross and annyoing..
I have always felt this way like I would scream at the screen:" LEAVE THEM ALONE OML PLEASE!!"
THANK YOU! Like the men in anime are harassed and abused way more and its either viewers just turn a blind eye, find it funny, or try to excuse the disgusting behavior just because it came from a girl. And sadly a lot of anime have women beating up on the men for literally no reason. It's infuriating and it's not cute or funny in the slightest. The worst trope in anime ever.
@@phoenixxxashez Because these shows are aimed at men. Theres a reason why tusuderes, abusive women who beat men, are popular in HAREM anime aimed at MEN. Your switching up the demographics. The ones hating on abusive men aren't the ones saying that abusive women are better or fine. Its two separate groups with different fantasizes.
@@titandarknight2698no matter who’s it aimed at it’s still bad and it really needs to stop
I hated in Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure part 4 when Koichi ended up in a relationship with his kidnapper-stalker. How was that written with a straight face as if this is a good ending for either of those characters?
Harem anime in general, including reverse harem are one of my big pet peeves. The one exception is My Next Life as a Villainess because it makes fun of a lot of the tropes and the main character is so blissfully unaware
Omg yes !! Ouran Highschool Host Club looks like a harem anime but it is one of those classics (like My Next Life as a Villainess) that just progress with continuity and humor. It is just fun seeing the platonic relationship between Haruhi and the boys. I wanted to find an anime similar to that but I just opened a vault of many reverse harem series that literally got me sitting in front of my computer like “what just happened…”
@@miadukes4113Some parts of Ouran haven't aged well though... Especially the beach episode
Oh me too, I just can't feel the relationship that way. The only other one I liked a lot was miss not so sidekick, but idk if classifying it as an harem is correct... I didn't even bother to read the other route, one was enough and satisfying. I cannot imagine the fl with anyone else rather than.... Can I say it? It would be a spoiler... I'm going to say it:
The fish that escaped the pond was Arwin, the main ml.... Yup he's kinda the asshole type but I love him sm and so does the fl so no bother ~
@@naiadelacrimosa5234lmao lattie is an icon, of course it isn’t close to being a shoujo manga, as its a manhwa like the other 200+ manhwas i have read. Personally however it isn’t my favourite historical, but i will agree that just like MNLAAV it is pure comedy.
To answer the harem question, I don’t think it really counts as harem, even with the route just for knight fish jerk man if I remember but besides that harem needs 3 people at a minimum so that is two if your including jerk knight and tease grey magician ml, since we we don’t even count goldie fish cuz we just don’t. We can also forget that cocky ‘protagonist’ fish holder because that girl is just a dipshit and honestly needs to cool her nerves down. Honestly though it must be almost three-four years since I’ve seen the story so…
Ecchi, harem and isekai are always terrible in my opinion. Even the ones that are decent still suck compared to most manga outside of those genres.
One of my favorite series is Cardcaptor Sakura. It has the most gross age gaps in anime. It has a lot of gross age gaps actually. And incest. Don't love that a wholesome series has some of the most disgusting "relationships".
And a protagonist who has a creepy stalker who knows her exact measurements by heart as a best friend
What incest?
@@dy_nto7 the incest is that Tomoyo who is Sakura's second cousin and has romantic feelings as well Tomoyo's mom having a crush on Sakura's mom.
Eww, that's so disappointing. I watched the first season of the anime many years ago but never got to finish it ... after reading your comment it will be in the forever dropped series!
Thanks for commenting, I would not want to waste my time on that garbage!
@@julimibz It is not garbage. It is gross and wrong that these are in the show, but there are also really cute and healthy relationships as well.
i was so disapointed in violet evergarden :(.
spoilers:
i really HATED it that she ended up with her father/brother figure. i never felt like they had a romantic connection. yes, she was/is obsesive with the major. but he wasn't with her. it bothered me more that she was 9 and he was like 23 when they met. it was stupid
Right? When i watched Violet Evergarden, i thought that the relationship between Violet and the major was like a father/daughter. I thought Violet saw the major as a parental gaurdian or smth and i really loved the show for that. So imagine my surprise and disappointment when my sister told me Violet liked the major as in a love/romantic sort of way💀
@@wajihaazhar2158 we probably had the same reaction 💀my friend told me about the movie and what happened. (or it was vice versa idk anymore 😭) but i SCREAMED and RANTED at her for what happened 😭😭😭
@@lollalofi3933 BROOOO that was me too, i thought my sister was lying to me to get a reaction out of me, but she seemed genuinely amused when she saw my reaction. She was like "you didnt know??" Like she was confused why i was acting so shocked. Like girl ofc i would i thought that was her FATHER.😭
worst part is, she thought it was nothing or that it wasnt weird😀😀😀
@@wajihaazhar2158 ayo what? 💀 violet was like 9 when they met. he was above 20. (I THINK). my friend and i were going on tiktok and so many people were shocked and dissapointed.🥲 violet is such a good story. it was ruined when she decided to settle down with the major 😭
@@lollalofi3933 FRRRR the age gap made everything so weird and i am pretty sure that the whole "romance" dynamic felt forced. I really love Violet Evergarden but damn did that movie leave a bad taste😭😭😭
Another romance trope is girls falling for stoic, personality-less boys because they boy does one low effort good deed. Example: the angel next door spoils me rotten.
Yeah, it's also in lot of harem and that's the main reason I don't like those: the girls might be interesting but the boy they all fallen for is... at the very best, "decent" but most of the time that's just a sweating pervert and that's basically his personality.
That show is good though?
I mean she didn't fall for him then and there? Did you even watch the full show? Or drop it after one ep? They actually build a lot of trust and support system for each other. To the point it's actually diabetic. But honestly out of all the trash romances out there, this one doesn't deserve being lumped together. Both the characters are capable and functional. The girl was not a damsel in distress. The guy is not a complete loser incapable of even basic education.
If I had to pick a trope that really grinds my gears, its the super mean guy and lovestruck girl. He'll be a jerk the entire time and she'll gloss over it cause he says nice things at times. Itatsuda na kiss gave me trauma
Yes! I can't believe Ita Kiss has been adapted into dramas for multiple countries when it's a toxic and unhealthy relationship…
Thats why I hated main couple in Queer as folj series it was what you described but gay bottom in place of a girl
I agree especially with student-adult romances. I can give leeway to young ppl who are inexperienced in such matters and trying to understand their feelings but as adult it's creepy to see older ppl trying to lure teens and can be dangerous
I feel like the incest trope is also so common not just in anime, but western media too! I don't get why it's a common trope. I guess because like "forbidden love" kind of stuff, but I hate it. I say this as a Monogatari fan too (though I feel the series is mocking/making fun of it but i had to skip the weird stuff). I also hate the age gap between Tohru's parents! If it wasn't romantized, it would've been better too because tbh I do feel like Tohru's mom had issues esp after Tohru's dad died and Tohru copied her dad to become like him. The gap sorta explains why her mom wasn't entirely mature, but it was shown in a positive light. It could have been easier to just make him at least 17-18 and Tohru's mom in high school or something. Idk. I didn't watch the movie. I want to mostly to see the other stuff that you said was well handled. One of my favorite mangas- Cardcaptor Sakura- Sakura's teacher who is a 5th grade teacher is ENGAGED to one of the students!! Also Sakura's parents had an age gap too. Then her COUSIN has a crush on her. I'm just like why? I really wish anime/manga wouldn't do these weird things. I have friends who like Nagato and I couldn't get into it either. I think it's more they like the idea of a cute girl bullying them I guess?? Each to their own. Vampire Knight also was insane to me. They did Zero so dirty!! I still love the art of the series. Brothers Conflict was so gross too. Also can we talk about how garbage Diabolik Lovers is? I was so excited for a vampire reverse harem, but then it ended up being harassment and one of the character literally calls the mc "bitch-chan"! I'm like wtf! Now I love a-hole characters, but it was just cringe. Thank you for shining a light on all these issues. I really enjoy the content!
How old are the parents though, even like a 10 year age gap would be totally fine if the younger one is at least 30 and they got together as adults
Sakura's father is her mother's teacher. He married his student. The cousin thing bothered me too. Both Sakura's aunt and Tomoyo have unrequited crushes on their cousins. I realize cousin romances are only considered taboo in the USA, but I'm American, so of course, I'm going to think it's messed up.
@@Tenko72 funding your cousin is weird in every country
@@jamesjohnXII I think it should be, but I follow UA-camrs from other countries, like North African countries, who left to get away from that. I've also seen A LOT of French series, even child friendly ones like Babar and Code: Lyoko, where the cousin romance happens. King Babar married his cousin and she's the queen and Odd's cover for Aelita is that she's his cousin girlfriend from Canada. I'm genuinely surprised the English translation kept any of this, but I think they forgot the relationships between the characters. Other French series that get English dubs do remember to change all the cousins to not being related. I don't remember if this happens in Italian series too and I'm afraid to look it up.
@@Tenko72 Most of the world isn't opposed to even first cousin marriage. 19 American states allow it, and something like seven more allow it with strict restrictions.
As someone who has watched Nagatoro, I will say their relationship gets better as the series goes on, with Nagatoro becoming nicer and the senpai getting more confident. Like, she still messes with him, but it’s in a more friendly way than at the start and more wholesome moments happen more often. But I can get why it wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea
That would require watching the show, which she clearly admitted to not doing.
And even then, the first couple episodes/chapters are better than the original manga which has her straight up kicking dude in the balls repeatedly.
Yah but I wish senpai would stand up for himself and make it clear what she was doing was wrong THEN it can get better. Not bully until he finally surrenders to her love.
@@crazygamer4260 That's not the original manga-- that's the _original_ original unserialized CGs from at most 2013.
...and she kicks him in the ass really hard, not the balls.
@@CincyRazit’s a tough watch at first, but the show makes an active point to show how unhealthy and off putting her behavior was, with Nagatoro being forced in to a few “oop that was too far wasn’t it” moments when she outstrips everyone’s bullshit tolerance. Both parties learn how to deal with their emotions for each other before fully developing a relationship so senpai isn’t an incel and Nagatoro isn’t a complete bitch
It’s so annoying having most female leads be the damsel in distress
I have no problem with damsel on distress but when it’s just all the time in almost every single romance which makes it so annoying to me
But this is what some men like... They want an innocent, good looking damsell in distress...
If she happens to be strong she is either called a feminist or an annoying tsundere.
@@missstranger7697 ...she's called an "annoying" tsundere if she wails on people for no good reason, which is itself a common trope.
@@seg162which is like better than being feminist. tsundere is what people pay for it anyway
Dove employee found
To be fair in My stepmom's daughter is my ex they were first dating long before their parents got married and didn't know they would become siblings. They play with the dynamic of "we were together THEN but now we're siblings so we can't do these things"
Plus they're not blood related
@@cuu9350i think the main issue of sibling romance is whether they grew up together or not because A. Thats wierd and B. The power dynamics of siblings and family in general that make those relationships often abusive.
If they were for example seperated at birth and find eachother when they are like 20 and dont know they are siblings, start dating and then find out, i dont think that matters.
If they are step siblings who never grew up together, again i dont think it matters.
If they are step siblings but grew up together however, i think thats pretty awful, so them being blood related is irrelevant to me, its about if the siblings are actually in a sibling relationship when it turns into a romantic one, if they never had a sibling relationship in the first place it doesn't really matter.
@@EyesDontCryhoping that the author of hoshi no ko is going for the raw rubyxaqua route... Jk jk.... But that would be interesting and very morally questionable. VERY....
I would love to see juicy developments.....👁️👄👁️ (But kana is best girl, I'm not even following the manga, I stopped at chap 50 but the fandom on Reddit is vomiting everywhere everything that happens on the manga)
I hate the tsundere trope. Especially when said tsundere is extremely violent. Like I would not fall in love with someone that caused me bodily harm on the regular just because something I said or did irritated them or they got jealous. Or they caught me in a compromising position and instead of hearing me out their thoughts immediately go for the nuclear option that I'm being a sick deviant. Showing that they have Little faith in me.
No you wouldnt because its exaggrated lol
@@sonicwithglasses131 to a comical degree? Yes, but that's besides the point. No matter if it's exaggerated or not. I still hate it.
Nah I low-key agree, tsunderes in real life would get hated so much.
This this this...to me tsundere make everyone look bad. Her for lacking self-awareness, entitled attitude, liability. ML, he looks spineless, lacks self-respect, makes himself smaller for her feelings. Any" friends " who don't call either out on their behaviors.
Female character always beating up male character. It's not cute😒 Only Anime that it doesn't completely bother me is Tomo chan is a girl, cause at least it some what makes sense 😅
Also, guy being a complete jerk but it girl falls for him anyways. Idk if this in Anime as much as it is manga/manwhas though. This trope can be okay... but it's mostly annoying lol
Tomo-chan makes no sense tho, gnc women are already stereotyped as aggressive in a lot of media, it's probably one of the worst offenders of the genre
If you'd be interested, I think that doing a series or just a similar video on a different anime demographic or genre could be cool since there are so many toxic tropes out there that are not necessary and the story would be much better without them. Love the video by the way ❤! Thank you for putting it out there.
Let me know what toxic tropes video you'd be interested in hearing about and thanks you so much for watching!!
@@TheAnimeTeaI think a toxic tropes video on comedy anime would be interesting since similar to how in romance anime toxic tropes are sometimes defended as harmless fantasies toxic tropes in comedy anime like harassment or harmful stereotypes are sometimes defended as just for laughs without there being bad intent.
I think that this defense does not consider the fact that these toxic tropes being not only included, but in many cases not being presented as negative perpetuates them regardless of what the intent behind their inclusion was.
I think that is it perfectly good to include toxic and unhealthy elements into a story as long as they are handled with care by the creator. What makes their inclusion bad is when these toxic elements are not presented as negative and even romanticized.
It's sad to see so many anime that are otherwise very enjoyable include toxic tropes that kind of put a stain on the viewing experience.
@@TheAnimeTea there are many bruh the one I've in mind, female characters sexualizing and even for as stupid as it gets literally connecting it with "comedy" it's so weird and cringe at the same time 💀 like damn most female characters are just for their body not for their story like wtf
In shoujo anime the characters being hella toxic and so their romance, like in wolf prince
I choose to view it as the young character being the insert showing a healthy interest in mature adults rather than the adult being the insert showing a disturbing interest in a kid. Sure wish it actually ended as a crush though
Saying that « bullies secretly love their victim » is a bit more rare but just as wrong as the more common « bullies are secretly jealous of their victim ». It’s factually wrong, ask any former bully, and yet, people hold onto this narrative as if their lives depended on it 😅
Secretely love is stupid. But about jealousy is correct cause I remember one lesbophobic woman I know once spilled beans that she envious of lesbians cause men treat her like trash but she cannot stop keep her legs closed
Nagatoro is clearly a femdom fetish thing. Anime / manga are known for fetishization, that's like one of its biggest appeals.
And in Nagataro's defense, the author had to toned down the content after the first volume, the story progressively becomes more vanilla as more chapters are released, to the point that in volume 12, there's like nothing of that at all.
Glad to hear that Nagatoro gets more wholesome as it continues and thanks for leaving your thoughts!
I wish there could be a manga that has fem-dom but just with the woman being dominant, not sadistic. Like a sweet wholesome romance with the roles switched. ya know?
@@angel-zq6or "Ladies on Top" is a good manga that does this.
@@angel-zq6or Kawaii dake ja Nai Shikimori-san
@@superpikablu1723 Yee Shikimori san Is Not Just a Cutie is pretty nice
I hate when the implied couple ends up with their cousin instead. Which hasn't happened a lot, but it is weird it happened to me twice in a row.
I remember it happens in Elfen Lied, but that manga is so disturbing and messed up it actually felt kinda fitting lol.
@@nightmarishcompositions4536 Yeah, Honey and Clover and Behind The Scenes are for sure different in tone lol.
is legal in many countries, but many forget it for being focusing on giving other ideas to children
I am fine with age gap but only when they are both adult
I want to throw 'My Life as Inukai-san's Dog' under the bus
I don't know what tropes it has, but it still horrifies me.
Nah that shit was out of this world
I heard that if you finish that show, the council of perverts sends you a plaque.
...if you don't know what tropes it has, then what are you talking about?
Don't get me wrong, it's very uncomfortable to watch outside of some specific mindsets, but you're not forgiven for being ignorant about what you crap on just because of that.
I don't know how I ended up at this channel, considering romance is my least watched genre of anime, but your vids are really nice and enjoyable :)
Thanks for stumbling upon my little channel and sticking around :)
Personally, something that really gets to me is when the love interest is disrespectful towards the object of their affections and it's portrayed as him (or her) being flirty. It's not cute or sexy, it's just really annoying seeing this person call the protagonist a nickname they hate, insult aspects of their appearance or personality, act possessive when they show affection to other people, etc. It's even worse when that character's main redeeming quality is that they can protect the protagonist or something, and that makes the protagonist conveniently forget everything they hate about the that character and fall for them.
Edit: Not to mention the casual sexual harassment that some of these love interests inflict on the protagonist, but it's portrayed as perfectly fine because they're meant to end up together.
I agree with a lot of what you said in the video. I must acknowledge my maid sama bias 😅. I think why maid sama worked is because Misaki wasn't the typical weak-willed female protagonist that couldn't make up her mind about things. She was very sure of herself (except with the maid thing, that she tried hard to get better at). She was strong but she tried to do everything on her own and that's never good; Usui's constant presence( which I can agree could be stalkerish at times) showed that he was someone that she could come to rely on, someone that wouldn't skip out on her the way her dad did to her family. Basically she had a lot of walls up so if Usui hadn't been persistent he wouldn't have gotten anywhere with her. But I can definitely see where he was a bit too possessive at times. But he got a lot better as the series progressed.
the mangaka for nagatoro used to draw femdom doujin. That's the audience, that's why it's like that.
As someone who likes this show, i dont like it for those reasons, its just very cute after those rough beginnings.
Anybody watching it for those reasons likely dropped it after the first season.
He used to draw all kinds of ero-doujin. The man was the kitchen sink of the doujin scene.
As the legends say, however, he then encountered NaruHina with the completion of Naruto, and was... mostly converted to vanilla, which is why Nagatoro in his serialization isn't literally shattering Senpai's buttcheeks or NTR baiting him.
When she said it's an anime we forgot about, i immediately knew maid sama was gonna be it. And yes, even I tried watching don't toy with me misd nagatoro but couldn't even force myself to watch one episode and this anime was really popular when it was ongoing, and it caught me wondering that is this what people are into?
The first episode is rough and alot of people actually disliked it on that first episode, but it tones down as it goes and becomes pretty wholesome at a fairly steady pace.
It still has teasing but theres more of a back and forth and its not literal bullying like in the first episode.
By season 2 the teasing is very tame, and its got them being very sweet to eachother, its not a perfect series but its one of my favourites despite its obviously rough start and wont be everybodies cup of tea.
nagatoro is very wild early on but it chills out a lot once the author calmed down haha
Although Nagatoro goes too far in the first episode. It’s not shown in the anime but in the manga, she immediately regrets going too far and dials her teasing back when she goes too far. She slowly dials it back and the problem is also that Nagatoro is supposed to play the sadodere trope of being sadistic and dominant. The FMC in Koikimo is 17 but that doesn’t make it any better. Although it seems like if the tropes are prevalent, they must be popular for a reason and have an audience unfortunately (maybe in Japan)
I'd also add that Nagatoro is trying to encourage the MC to become more assertive and toughen up. When he does express that she went too far, Nagatoro realizes her mistake and dials back. Basically, she is teasing him to become a stronger person and the two are basically awkward teens trying to sort out their feelings.
@@cadethumann8605 and a lot of her teasing is her being unable to express her emotions which is a normal thing for some teens to do. But ya it’s also the setup for the teasing trope of teasing too much at the start and then dialing it back
@@rajvirmalhans2073 The irony is that in the original webcomic, Nagatoro was genuinely abusive. It was even to the point where her senpai just straight up broke and just accepted the outcome. Of course, this was meant for a very niche audience that had a particular fetish. Once the author rewrote the story in his manga, Nagatoro was toned down to be more light-hearted and silly while the MC would gradually become more assertive.
One thing I'd like to imagine in-universe is that the webcomic events were just inaccurate and exaggerated retellings of the two's relationship from a shifty school student.
I LOVE the BL manga Classmates, but the 4th installment in the series is.... not it.
It's technically a spin off focusing on side characters from the main series, but it's listed as volume 4, which is why I got it.
Turns out, it was not about the main couple, but about the teacher who was preying on and grooming one of the main characters getting into a relationship. I was a bit hopeful, thinking Oh! Maybe he actually falls in love with and gets together with someone HIS OWN AGE.
But no! He gets together with a 15 YEAR OLD STUDENT!!!
I only read a bit, but they either hook up or almost hook up when they first meet randomly at like a nightclub or something like that, and only after that do they find out they are student and teacher to each other, which causes "silly" situations ig. But the thing is, they DO end up together in the end! Its so gross! I was hoping the teacher would fall out of those gross habits, since the first 3 volumes shamed him for trying to groom one of the protags, but apparently its only bad if he does it to a boy who's already taken.🤦♂
Ever since I was a kid, I never understood nor liked age gaps in manga/animes romances. The more I've grown up, the more it grossed me up. It's just making me uncomfortable to think an author would be like "I could make this 15 y/o character fall in love with their senpai who is like 17/18... OR WITH THAT GUY WHO HIS THEIR TEACHER AND IS LIKE 35!!! Oh yes, that's way better!". Like, what is your message lmao? You can't tell me you did this for no specific reason when you decide to take, either a really young minor with an adult, either a barely major character with someone who is a complete adult (30+). There's gotta be a justification to that especially because most of those series don't even have "minor + adults relationships" as the main problematic. For example, a manga specifically talking about bullying as their problematic will show the aspects of it (the bullies, the victims, how it started, how it's going on each others mind, how people react to it, etc). But romance manga with age gaps usually just make it look like a totally normal love story with that one character having a superior position bc they're adult, and the ones who are opposed to their relationship are the bad ones or enventually end up accepting it. Some try to make it like it's ok just because the adult resisted enough and can now fall in love or like they're gonna wait until the character age up for getting married 💀
Or worst : they use that "Yeah but this character is so mature for their age" sentence, ugh, I just can't.
(sorry if my english doesn't makes sense, I used google to help with it but it's not my language)
I also hate when it's done for no reason at all. In Fruits Basket, Uotani (17) falls in love with the rooster zodiac (I don't remember his name) who is in his mid twenties, but there is absolutely no reason for him to be that old. If he was 19 then nothing would change other than being much less gross. It's like the mangaka just made a pedo relationship for the heck of it.
Tbh if the age gap is only 1-5 yrs old
For me, it will be fine as long as they:
- don't overstep their bounds (like doing "that" 🤢),
- they're at least in high school age,
- and they respect each other boundaries
But sadly alot of anime or manga doesn't abide by that rule (doing 18+ things to a minor is very uncomfortable to watch/read)
Probably even western cartoons, series, or movies does that too but idk 🥲
Edit: my parents got 4 yrs differences
They started dating around college years but didn't do anything disrespectful until they're married 😌
I think this happens because age gaps are common in Japan. It's common for the guy to be older than his partner too. It doesn't make it right whatsoever.
It probably helps with sales. Age gaps appear mostly in shoujo, which is targeted at girls. Most girls end up crushing or falling for older guys. Be it their teachers or some older guy they know or even a celebrity. That makes these stories more relatable and more likely to buy.
Japan is very weird when it comes to age gaps.
Kare kono also had this relationship they framed as wrong because it was an age gap relationship between a much younger boy an adult woman who ended up having a kid together. Which are the parents of the love interest character. Also a step sibling relationship who getting married at some point.
This video is pointless. Anime comes from Japan. Japan's culture is different from western culture. They have a lot of tropes that will be unusual for people who are not use to that kind of stuff; However, surprisingly enough, there is an audience who likes those kind of tropes hence why these animes keep getting produced. If its not your thing then don't watch it but you shouldn't throw these tropes under the bus as fact. Its all fiction. No one is actually getting hurt, used, or manipulated. Its simply a story being told. If its not your thing then keep it pushing. But just hearing about how you don't really like this kind of stuff isn't interesting cause it's obvious. Dating your stalker is bad. Teacher student relationships are bad. Incest is gross. None of this is new or interesting. So I'm just left here like. Ok.
1:07 so typical it’s always those who don’t watch nagatoro that have negative things to say about it you’re like a npc repeating others opinions without thinking by your own. i think the tropes should stay and you should go leave anime alone
My next life as a vilaness: all routes lead to doom, would be perfect if her adoptive brother wasn’t another member of the harem 😫 and adopted and all he still her biological relative like a second grade cousin or something like that, they could have him like an overprotective brother that prevents the progress of the harem members but in the anime his feelings are explicitly romantic and I can’t 😖😫wHyyYyyy?!?!!!
the age gap problem is so bad in bl stories
Man, I was kind of hoping to hear more aside from "It's weird" or "It's problematic." A lot of it really just sounded like personal icks as opposed to lazy storycrafting, incredulous developments, or nonsensical plotpoints going nowhere.
“I haven’t seen the series, I’ve only seen a few seconds” should tell you all this girl knows 😂
all her videos are just L takes anyway lmao
@@subwafers7138 fr
Nice video! I agree that these are tropes that need to stop unless they are explicitly showing the audience how damaging/unhealthy they are.
As a teen I didn't notice but, after watching the 2019 Fruits Basket, I realized just how many age-gap relationships there were and was like...why??? Not only the two you mentioned but also ***spoilers*** Shigure and Akito since she was still a kid when he started to fall for her or would be all flirty towards her (I think they're 6 years apart). And plus the Sohmas are technically all related so it makes me wonder just how related all the couples actually are to each other lol. The series still holds a place in my heart but it was interesting to notice these things as an adult.
I also recently rewatched Kodomo no Omocha (Kodocha or Child's Toy) and forgot that there were weird grooming relationships and family "dating" stuff in that too. I had to speed through all those scenes cause it made me uncomfortable.
Honestly, justifying the "it's okay if their relationship is abusive because they are assassins/bounty hunters" is the same energy as thinking Joker and Harley Quinn are relationship goals lol
Don't get me started on Shigure and Akito's relationship, ughhhhhhh. Age-gaps plague so many shojo romance series from the 90s and 2000s unfortunately
@@TheAnimeTea yeah Shigure and Akito's relationship has more issues than just the age gap lol. But yeah it's a shame revisiting some favorites from the 90s and 00s and seeing certain things romanticized that my child brain thought was cute or unproblematic at the time.
Eh, Kodocha is littered with PSAs *against* grooming relationships. They explicitly have a sit-down with Sana-chan to explain that her calling her manager her "pimp", and them having a cute-cozy relationship (babysitting & reading bedtime stories) isn't the same at all to a grown-up/romantic relationship.
It's one of the major story milestones when Sana comes to understand that her feelings of brother/uncle affection with her manager != romantic feelings, in either direction.
Sana's birth-mom serves as the cautionary tale version, since she was a teen-mom abandoned by some older, deadbeat dude. That was another huge arc in the story, and explored from some pretty frank angles. (Like Sana talking about how much she appreciated that her birth-mom chose not to have an abortion, while also having anger/mixed feels about being abandoned as a baby.)
The anime never got a full release in English, so not sure how much anyone these days has seen. But back in its fansub days, Kodocha was kind of held up as a standard-bearer for discussing these kinds of hard IRL topics in a way that was still fun & kid-friendly (it ran in Nakayoshi IIRC, so figure girls age 7-13).
@@mandisaw oh cool! I didn't know those details about the series! I know there were characters talking against her "relationships" with adults but there were other instances of adults, like Zenjiro, saying things like "if you were older, I would ask you out". And that whole thing about her relationship with her biological father where Akito was literally the only one saying that it's messed up and her mother was kinda going along with all of it and hid the fact that he's her father from her since he was dying. So even after his death, she basically still believed that she was in love with him and that he was her boyfriend. I can see the commentary on grooming and predatory relationships, but I also felt like there were times where the adults kept expecting Sana to figure it out on her own and waited until much later to educate her on it. I felt like her guardians should have had those discussions with her right when they got brought up. But then I guess it would have been a plot point for only one chapter if that were the case lol. And, as you said, if the show gave the space for having those discussions with young girls then that's great! I watched the series without knowing anything about that so thanks for sharing! And I still love the series in the end even if those parts made me uncomfortable haha.
@@FancyTuna77 Oh yeah, I forgot about the dad & the whole "we're lovers" thing. Been a long while, but a wiki-refresh points that out as a bit of a clunky-insert job - Sana was a child of incest in the manga, but for the anime they had it play out differently. Seems reasonable to assume that those bits might not be handled quite as well.
That said, I remember there were various arcs/plot-points where the insanity of the press, gossip, showbiz need for manufactured-drama, etc were brought up, lampshaded, and/or were causes for concern. So this could also be in that category. I'd have to rewatch it to get a fresher take - haven't seen Kodocha in almost 20yrs, I'm surprised I remember as much as I do 😅
Author notes for Fruits Basket has Natsuki Tayaka admitting she likes age gap relationships. When you reflect on it, there's more age gap couples than close age couples in the series.
The close familial ties relationships in anime might be a reflection of how difficult it is to find a partner in Japan. After striking out so many times, they start looking for partners closer to home.
I read a lot of yuri manga (and similar Korean and Chinese stories). One of the largest romance trends is just straight up SA. It is very rarely treated with any respect and is instead considered hot or romantic. No. SA is never okay. Even between 2 women. Some of the most popular yuris feature straight up SA. Ex; Bad thinking diary, citrus, netsuzu trap, etc etc. I’ve only read a few that treated SA as something disgusting and unacceptable. I keep a list of yuris that don’t include sa themes (or if they do treat them with the respect they deserve). That list is SHORT.
Fruits basket also had incest. Akito sleeping with Shigure AND the rooster. Hiro and Kisa, Hatsuharu & the horse. Lots of cousin loving in that show, I'm surprised you didn't bring that up 😅 trust it's one of my favorite anime BUT all of that is weird & idk why it was so glossed over and not weird for any of the characters.
Why? Because cousin relationships are not "incest". It has to be with a blood sibling or a blood parent to be "incest". In Japan, at least. 1 out of 1000 marriages are cousin marriages.
Hope that clears things up.
I take all of these with a grain of salt. Age gap ones bother me the least (depending on the story/characters' personalities), but harassment ones bother me the most. Everything else is in between but I have watched and enjoyed the majority of these tropes.
To me, it mostly depends on storyline/character personalities. I NEVER took those romantic situations and "hoped" they would happen in real life. Just like Disney growing up, it was entertainment. I think in the end, you just have to be able to tell fiction from real life. Everyone has their preferences on which tropes they like, though.
I LOVE the enemy to lover tropes. They're my favorite and most fun/entertaining to read/watch, but in real life?? Oh, HECK NO 🤣
age gaps dont bother you? i hope you at least give side eye to the full grown adults falling in love with their young students, like middle school and elementary. not giving that side eye is weird
@@gh02tdu2ti hope you actually read their comment, they are saying it doesnt bother them because its fiction, its really easy to not think about all the implications and just take what is presented to you.
Ofcourse if we take these things and think about how it would play out in real life, they are all horrible and we wouldn't like them, but with in the contained fictional setting, many people can just easily disregard those elements to see the underlying message and appreciated it, or even enjoy such tropes because they know it isnt real.
Its okay if it makes you uncomfortable, pretty normal actually and i personally find them uncomfortable but its also very easy to just treat fiction for what it is, and thats fiction, you dont have to like it but i dont think other people should be shamed or told they are wrong for not caring about elements of fiction or even liking it.
@@gh02tdu2t I don't side eye GTA despite its glorification of violent crime-- I just don't play it (because it's not something I've gotten into).
@@EyesDontCry Appreciate your understanding my comment and your reiteration! That's exactly it. I know text can be tough to understand sometimes.
@@seg162 Another great example. :)
I think readers can distinguish fact from fiction in comics and anime, and as long as the trope doesn't cause PTSD in some way, it's okay to enjoy problematic fiction. (People are really good about content warnings these days, thankfully!) It would be a disservice to Fruits Basket to dismiss it entirely--its compassionate outlook, take on depression, etc.--because it has a couple of these tropes. The further back in time you go, the more problematic manga and anime can get with r*pey scenarios and things like that. My least favorite is the age gap, so overused. For a while there it seemed like I was seeing it in every other manga volume I picked up. :|
Well sure people have kinks but at least make it VERY AGE RESTRICTED and not containing any character that is CLEARLY A DEPICTION OF A LITTLE KID (cough cough)
The problem is a lot of this stuff is aimed at kids which makes it really harmful. Especially considering how common sa and pedophilic relationships are in japan
Agreed. People need to learn how to separate and distinguish fact from fiction. I like reading horror books about crazy evil serial killers, but that doesn’t mean I love them or support them in real life. Quite the opposite lol.
@@Shortestcomentcry
@@sippinginori1049 And here people, is what you call a lolicon!
Thank you for talking about this and specifically maid-sama is the only one I'd seen but i HATED that show he did NOT respect her boundaries (or her) at ALL. Sickening
All fiction is alright to write.
Age gaps are completely fine if done correctly
How would they be done correctly? I’m asking politely btw.
@@gameframeinc.3389There is an anime called "After the Rain" which did it so much better. The girl falls in love with a guy older than her, but the guy seems to love her platonically and respects her alot, as he sees his past self in her and she doesn't want her life to go to waste. It also seems like this was only something that the girl was just distracting herself from her real problems. Also they dont get together in the end or at all.
@@gameframeinc.3389 Age gap relationships _in fiction,_ even ones between a minor and an adult, are arguably feasible, when they meet two standards:
1) both characters are relatively equally mature despite the age gap
2) the younger party is the one that pursues
The first objective can be accomplished by making the younger party develop into maturity-- this approach often means that the story as a whole doubles as a coming-of-age. A straightforward example of this that I like is _Neko no Otera no Chion-san,_ where the male lead's burgeoning maturity is called to the reader's attention and ultimately shines through despite his missteps, which-- paired with his desire to accept the life she leads and even live it with her, despite the sacrifices he'd be making-- also culminates in the heroine being won over in the end. Alternatively, the _older_ party can be made to be immature. This is what's done in _Call of the Night--_ the heroine is functionally indistinguishable from another teenager (especially physically) outside of her having a job and being able to drink (it "helps" that she's also a vampire, so she's already outside the conventions of human society). She doesn't really have any worldliness to leverage in manipulating the protagonist, on top of not really caring to do so in the first place because she's squeamish about seduction (a normal vampire activity in that narrative); this also parallels the protagonist's unfamiliarity with love, which also means that (particularly with the protagonist's goal early on in the story) they mature together.
Speaking of leveraging worldliness, the accomplishment of the second objective is an indication to the audience that the older party is unwilling (or even unable) to use what power they have to even attempt to coerce the younger party. They're being carried along by the strong will of the younger party, who by themselves-- without any adverse influence from or exploitation by the adult-- decided that they want to be in an intimate relationship with them. "Shiota-sensei and Amai-chan" has a straightforward example of this (while also being teacher/student)-- the man barely indicates attraction to the heroine, and of course doesn't use any of his teacher privileges to facilitate any kind of relationship with her, let alone the one they have. He's also absolutely willing to break off their relationship at the slightest suspicion of others, and in the interest of avoiding that, he has hard boundaries on physical affection regardless of whether they're alone. She mainly clings to him rather than the other way around, as if he just gave up and submitted to her will.
Generally, an objective in the writing of the age gap relationship is to have it be-- as much as possible-- a conventional relationship, despite the context of the age gap. Thus, it's necessary to address the major (and intertwined) "extenuating circumstances" in such relationships: worldliness and power imbalance. People will react especially negatively to age gap relationships if the older party has a marked advantage over the younger party _that they exploit--_ thus the "life experience" and "power" complaints. Furthermore, relationships where those issues exist arguably can't function as anything but a pornographic premise in the first place. It's as if they're simultaneously not on a level playing field while one party makes ball passes the other can't catch without being hurt.
It *needs* to be recognized that, in real life, we punish statutory r(a)pe under the absolutely rational assumption that the child was coerced into that situation, by someone we normally expect them to trust-- an adult. We don't actually know everything underlying the case, we can't for certain, _and we don't have to in the first place._ In fiction, an author has the benefit of being able to showcase every single building block in a given relationship between two characters, and so the parties become more sympathetic when it's clear that they're actually being seduced by a minor-- as irresponsible as that may be, this is still in the context of fiction so it's very easy to not care about real-life consequences that don't exist. It's also easy to, in fiction, make less matter than what would in real life-- though, actually having the characters be aware of the context of their relationship and account for future matters like marriage or work despite their deciding on a relationship is something that can buy goodwill from the audience (cf. "Promise Cinderella", where the female lead is a 27 year old divorcee and the male lead a 17 year old high schooler).
There... is a double standard to this though, but it's something that one has to live with: because women are seen by men and other women alike to intrinsically have less "power" than a man, age gap relationships (in my observation) tend to go down much more smoothly when it's the _woman_ that's older, and there's also more leeway for greater differences in ages-- you might have even noticed that two out of three of my examples have older female leads. That said, I'm only a novice to the shoujo and josei categories, so older man/younger woman might actually be popular in them despite my lack of awareness of such.
@@gameframeinc.3389 meet each other, interact a lot, experience situations that convince then that they are destined to be together, speak of it to their parents and marry
I also thinks Vampires are weird in animes. They married their sisters or, if your really unlucky, constantly drink your blood and trat you as food AS WELL as harassing you everyday. It happend in Diabolik lovers. Every vampires except Subaru, are cruel with the heroine. I find her situation sad but can't love her because she is stupid. The girl let them attacking her, she had a weapon who can hurt them and never use it. Her life is always in danger, she could kill a vampire but won't for some reason 🤔I can't root for her or wish she escaped the manor if she never tries. It's so hard to find one quality this naive girl has.
Selfish to change a trope you don’t like so others can’t enjoy it. There’s stuff out there I like that’s not popular. Not gonna force others to fit my wants, just have to look for it
When I was in Japan in the 1990s when I was in the military stalking was a real big problem. Now the Japanese government has made some steps to try to crack down on it but from what I've seen it's still a problem.
Worst trope for me is when Female lead gets with the toxic/asshole male lead in the end totally forgetting about the 2th male lead which is always better/best in comp lol🗿☠️
Now I'm starting to believe what my friends say, that gatekeeping is really good
One of My favorite anime romance is Yor and Loid. Because they genuinely care about each other and help each other and neither is overshadowed. I’m also interested in Go for it nakurma and several Yaoi series and I’m in love with the villannesa. Yuri is my job and a few other yuri shows.
@TheAnimeTea I had the wrong impression with the first episode of Nagatoro, but if you have the resolve, it really picks up.
The reason she's annoying is that she's trying to overcome the communication barrier with paisen, as they're polar opposites and she actually has a lot of affection for him.
I remember first hearing the premise of nagatoro and thinking “oh, so it’s just a less wholesome Takagi-San for guys who want to get bullied” (or possibly want to convince themselves that they have a chance with the girl who hates their guts, ಠ_ಠ)
I don’t know why this is in my recommended and perhaps I shouldn’t comment, lest the algorithm gives me more videos like this, but…
Nagatoro is literally just a kink. As are most “weird” tropes. “Why is the love interest bullying the protagonist?” Because the target audience likes it, “Why incest?” Because the creator likes it, “why so many age gaps?” because a lot of people had crushes on people older than them, “why teacher/student?” because enough people like the dynamic for it to sell
I mean, yes, sure, if we’re talking about real life, harassment isn’t a love confession. But why *do* they need to go from anime? Fiction is a safe and controlled environment. People are still going to like these things whether they disappear from anime or not. You literally can’t get safer than fiction. The best you (general you) can do is ignore them and watch the anime that caters to your personal kinks/preferences
Oh boy, I surely miss an actual good romance.
I like cliché troups when they're done correctly (like the bad boy, monster and human, enemies to lovers...) but guess what, most of times they're not done well!
Gosh, I've even seen hentai portrait it better than Anime 😭
Have you ever considered... watching animes that DO have what you want?
There isn't anything more nasty than demanding all creators to bend their preferences to yours instead of trying to look for content you actually like
"I don't like vanilla ice cream so it needs to be more like chocolate ice cream."
I'm not currently watching any romance anime. I feel that they all have a similar formula, lack depth and there is a lot of toxicity. So the only thing I'm following is Bungou Stray Dogs, Blue Lock, Viland Saga and Buddy Daddies 🥺
Same bro u got good taste I'm literally watching the same ones
My Happy Marriage is surprisingly good at exploring how trauma affects people and how they heal from these experiences alongside its' romance. There's Insomniacs After School and Bouquet for an Ughly Girl; both seinen but actually quite wholesome considering the demographic they come from.
Wotakoi is a good manga where the relationship has been established in the first episode. Definitely recommend!
I love this video soo much! A lot of these tropes are annoying AF to deal with! Just Ugh!!
And for part 2, you should definitely talk about how Female characters will physically abuse male MC Characters for trivial things or for even talking to another girl even though said character isn't even with them as of yet. They also overreact to misunderstandings or situations that are accidents and most times don't even apologize for it.
Examples of this include Baka and Test, My Familiar Zero, and several other harem anime series that I can't remember the names of. I'll try to find them and then edit this comment with them 😊
Some more examples include: Love Hina, Mayo Chiki, A certain magical index, Girls Bravo, Love Tyrant, ranma 1 and a half, Tsugumomo, Working!! & You lie in April.
I remember that happened in horimiya and I just couldn't man, I love horimiya though
@@inkchild4115 hmm which episode and what happened again? I forgot
@@wolfboy20 im not sure exactly what ep, but I do remember hori getting jealous cause her lil bro saw miyamura with a girl linking arms
she started to get pissy with him but tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. miyamura eventually tries to explain but hori gets even madder when she finds out he knows her name
Not everything is for you everyone, just dont watch it.
We need to go back to gatekeeping so tourists can stop trying to ruin things we like
In terms of like the harassment thing and the stalking, while normally I'd agree. The anime you mentioned are specific situations and it is valid to say that because they are murderers/people in unique situations, it doesn't mean it isn't sometimes there to give a certain perspective on the story i.e. people who's relationships are based on harassment. I think that a certain amount unless it's being like excessive or extreme is excusable because the whole point is that it's kind of a fantasy as well. Japanese people can be very closed off, people don't really express love to one another in the same way we do. Anime is a good medium to express those wild emotions and concepts in a unique way. People can separate these weird situations in anime from real life. When it comes to age gaps, I definitely think that is something that is a bad thing for teens to take in. Culturally, that is something that has been happening for years. Thankfully, you don't see many anime like that, especially recently. And with the sibling stuff that has also died down quite a bit over the years. So I think they aware of these issues and there are other anime out that don't have these kind of troupe or to a lesser extent.
I'm a yaoi/ BL diehard and I was so happy to see the R***y start to fade out and then some ppl started to bring it back, luckily most, but not all, have used it to establish a clear line between healthy and unhealthy relationships/ therapize readers. Still something we can do away with for the most part.
1:08 “I haven’t seen the series, only seen a few seconds”
You’ve just invalidated any points you were going to make about the series.
If you haven’t watched or read it you don’t get to comment.
I don't agree. telling artist they shouldn't play with taboos is a problem. Artists shouldn't have to hide their weird ideas even if those ideas are demed imorral.
And people should have the right to have critique on their suggestive art. Yk, everyone’s an artist, but not everyone should voice their ideas if they are clearly immoral
@_zapatoz_ if they are CLEARLY IMMORAL. Don't take my words out of context. If such ideas are allowed, then why their critiques shouldn't be?
@@Shortestcoment You can't say "don't take my words out of context" when nobody's taking your words out of context. "Not everyone should voice their ideas" is very much censorship. "People should be allowed to voice their ideas and others should be allowed to critique them" is criticism.
This video advocates the former.
@@seg162 Taking words out of context, basically quoting me while ignoring the rest of the sentence. You literally just did it again. "not everyone should voice their ideas IF THEY ARE CLEARLY IMMORAL. As for the rest, if you agree on the fact that this is criticism, then what's wrong with it? Claiming something is wrong is nowhere near censorship, its the root of criticism.
@@Shortestcoment You incorrectly believe your qualification matters as to whether you're advocating censorship, when it only serves to justify the censorship you advocate. It doesn't matter what reason you have, you're still advocating censorship. That's where communication is breaking down.
Secondly, I don't agree that this is criticism as much as it is a futile call for censorship. Did you not recognize what was meant by "the former"?
On the issue of age gaps, there was also the one of Shigure and Akito in Fruits Basket that was weird honestly. Shigure was supposed to be like 26 or 28 and Akito was essentially a high schooler. Didn't help that their dynamic was toxic too, with both trying to make the other regret not being with them so that they would be theirs alone. And they slept together.😅 Not to mention Akito was clearly not in her right mind. It was clearly shown through Shigure's monologues that he wanted her for himself and would do whatever it took, even at the expense of others like letting Tohru handle all the stuff with trying to break the curse. Also in how he said he hated Kureno just because he was always at Akito's side (was never allowed to leave) and even slept with her out of pity🙈 . A direct contrast would be the relationship between Kureno (same age as Shigure) and the blonde friend of Tohru (forgot her name) where they were in better states of mind and more mature about their choices and feelings.
It was a VEEERYY open anime on the subjects of the types of romances and obsessions there can be. That not all romances are healthy. I guess that was one of the main aims.
It DID leave me wondering how Shigure and Akito would work out their lives with each other because they got together after the curse was lifted, and each still clearly had issues with their perception of love.🫤
Harem, one lame guy and a ton of girls after that one guy. 🙄
STOP watching them if you don't like it instead of demanding a FOREIGN country cater to YOUR needs, how about?
How about you pack it in with that pathetic argument. Stop trying to downplay problematic stuff just because it's from another Country (because last time I checked, that is not a magical "makes stuff okay" button). You personally not being bothered by these tropes doesn't mean people aren't allowed to criticise them.
I love so much Card Captor Sakura but oh my god, some 'couples' from there are just so wrong... loved the video!
"I don't like these tropes."
Then don't watch the animes that have them. Problem solved. You simply dislike the tropes which is fine, almost everyone has tropes they dislike. But to demand they must go, despite there being fans of these animes, is wrong.
Nah.
They should go.
@@Dragonage2ftw Nah.
*You* should go.
...to an anime you actually like, instead of wasting your time with anime you don't like.
In defense of vampire knight. They're not human, more akin to monsters so the in#est didn't bother me too much. But I do occasionally enjoy the often overused forbidden love trope so thats a good part of my feelings for it. I also read it back in my teens in 2008 during the big vampire craze( and I was super invested in Twilight too). They're both part of the reason I love vampire stories. My favorite vampire manga ( with a better romance) is chibi vampire( karin) which I read and loved around the same time. The romance is gradual and very sweet. I honestly wish it got an anime that followed the manga to completion. Instead it opted for an anime only story and a character that doesn't even exist in the manga. Matsuri Hino's earlier manga before vampire knight,captive hearts is a fun read as well. It's got older tropes like a master servant relationship( due to magic) but it tends to lean more toward comedy which I think Hino is better suited for.
I heard in the manga the children of the related mc partners date each other
Bruh I feel you, I'm always craving for a good vampire story that not straightforward porn.
About that, I hope you didn't miss Bloody sweet, it's a masterpiece imo. Perfect dose of everything, no worries it's not creepy, they love each other a lot
In my opinion the ending of chibi vampire karin is just stupid and wrong, she should not have forgoten about the family she loved.
I finally read the original series a few months ago, and tbh, I found it very disappointing that the author didn't take time to flesh out the side characters (I found myself not even caring if they died or not) nor took the time to fully develop the world building aspect revolving around vampire society.
I found Kaname could have potentially to been an interesting character if we got to see his character develop in the past (from a lord to a general to a vampire king, etc.) than what we were given with, which was a dude who was worn down by life and fully depressed, which fair, but he just seemed like a flat character in my eyes; if it didn't revolve with Yuki, dude was just sad.
Yuki, while she did grow (somewhat?) as a character, she was more reactionary than anything; her actions were never catalytic. Instead, her very being was a catalyst within itself, which I deemed as lazy writing.
As for Zero? He was way more interesting and I believe he shouldn't have been weighted down by Yuki tbh and his potential to be a protagonist that shows strife between morals and values in the midst of war as someone trapped between humanity and vampirism and the entire political aspect of it was wasted 😭
Idk, I just think VK had more potential if it revolved either as a historical manga that takes part in developing the vampire knight organization and Kuran Kingdom, or if it has to take place in modern times, then the characters should have been aged-up as younger/older adults so that the world could have expanded beyond the academy's walls.
I also found it rather pointless of Cross's existence considering as a headmaster and parent he perpetually continued to fail to protect his students and children from danger on the bases that he promised he couldn't interfere with vampire stuff 😫 like, then what was the point of Yuki getting adopted by this dude if the only thing actually protecting her was just Zero and Kaname?
Idk, every single relationship in the original series felt forced/rushed to me (from romantic ones to platonic and familiar ones). I couldn't ship Yuki with zero because to me it seems he only liked her by default (that she was the only girl/person around his age to help him as a kid and know his secret). So, that just tells me, from a narrative standpoint, if Zero has more options, it could have either been anyone else and that zero might have not fallen in love with Yuki in the first place if he was rightfully provide with the safety net/environment/services any traumatized child in his shoes should have been given.
I didn't ship Yuki with Kaname because it was manipulative to a degree and the fact incest was involved but also because it seems like the relationship itself didn't do anything for the both of them: they didn't grow as people, nor tried to improve each other; Yuki grew complacent with Kaname's harmful behavior (harmful both to himself and others) while Kaname in return wanted her to be the one to change and fit into his ideal version of a romantic partner despite failing to meet Yuki's own ideals and fully knowing that.
It was two people (one who was an underaged 16 y.o. teen btw) that were obsessed with each other and that's it.
As for the side characters, we don't really know what the heck these characters actually do in their spare time (no hobbies or anything). So, as mentioned earlier, they were all flat characters to me: no one had a chance to have their own character arc, which was a shame.
Hence, because I felt nothing for any characters, I didn't even feel invested to the romantic triangle. I wanted to see the politics side of it and just see how it ends.
It wasn't bad, the ending, but I didn't feel fulfilled. Rather I felt empty, wanting-expecting more from it.
My love for VK is superficial because all I can see is how much potential it had as a historical, drama, slice of life anime that touch on subjects like philosophy, morals/values and political war with just a dash of a love life involved, maybe.
But I hate how empty it made me feel at the end for how much of its potential was wasted 😭💔 I struggled for weeks having to come to terms with that fact and now I hesitate to pick up VK's sequel.
OK, girl. I hear ya. These tropes suck. First, From up on Poppy Hill does not promote being in love with a family member. It takes the topic seriously. The couple distance each other when they find out. In the end it happens they weren't actually related anyways.
Going to Don't Toy with me Miss Nagatoro, I was getting sketchy vibes from the first episode too. Keep watching. It's actually really good. The characters are opposites who are young and neither knows how to interact with people. They both coax each other out of their shells and they both grow together as people. The first episode is done from a schewed view. It's from the guys perspective, where he thinks she's beyond terrible, where a lot of it is on him being over sensitive and dramatic. (I was like that too, and had to learn to grow a backbone) The girl just wants attention from him and doesn't know how to go about it. She seen his artwork and thinks it's great. She just can't say it.
Great videos though. I'm going on a binge of your channel.
nothing has to go. if you don't like it YOU GO.
Go to another anime or manga that has the things you like. We all do it, all the time.
I don’t like weird age gap ships or abusive shit so thanks I’ll see myself out and I usually do after an episode of an anime I’m watching ever features something like that.
Chobits and the born sexy yesterday
Can we also agree that Teasing master takagi-san isn't an anime about harassment like Don't toy with me miss nagatoro is.
Ok as someone who has seen nagatoro, and has seen the mangaka previous explicit works, it honestly was pretty tame comparatively. It also gets also more wholesome later on in the story. All in all it is a shounen so I will admit it follows alot of the tropes in the demographic, but I feel the introduction gives it a worse rep than it actually is.
The intro was def the worse considering Senpai was pushed to tears, but def can attest it gets more wholesome later on. The original webcomic was prob the worse Nagatoro in regards to the bullying.
@@CompSomAnichi yeah like in the original webcomic I heard it was supposed to be a short story where the senpai eventually commits suicide, but the mangaka was told to make it more wholesome which im glad he did haha.
@@tomibello5831 I'M SORRY SENPAI COMMITS WHAT NOW?? I DIDN'T REMEMBER THAT PART OF THE WEBCOMCI ONLY THE AWFUL AWFUL BULLYING BUT MAN, LUCKILY THE MANGA DIDN'T TURN OUT THAT WAY
Gee I wonder if people would have the same opinion on the show being "wholesome" if the roles were reversed. My guess is no.
@@phoenixxxashez "What if the genders were reversed?" Wonder no further-- I can't so much as spit without hitting 250 romance shoujo with a similar dynamic and relationship trajectory. Don't even get me started on the josei, where the male lead is often just straight _assaulting_ the heroine. _Repeatedly._ *_And that's their relationship until she gives in._*
Clearly, there's an audience for all of these.
Lmao so many people in the comments upset with what she has to say.
Yep, I'm seeing the weak arguments they're desperately trying to use, like "it's just fiction" or "it's a different culture so shut up" and my favourite one "don't like don't watch". "Anime was a Mistake" has never been a more correct saying.
Card captor Sakura had a lot of teacher student relationships and age gaps for example Sakuras friend fell in love with her teacher (the friend is 10 years old) the teacher and the girl end up marry when she’s 18 which is gr$$ming also with sakuras dad and her mom her mom was his student and her dad was a teacher but those are the relationships I remember that are problematic to me
Some dysfuntional romances ive encountered The Black Prince and Wolf Girl (girl lies to her friends about having a boyfriend and guy she snaps a pic of agrees to be her boyfriend if she acts likes his dog/is his personal errand girl), My Little Monster (a damaging side of the trope that opposites attract. The characters do not balance each other imo and the male character has some dysfunctional traits).
The one age gap story that i enjoyed was Taiyou no Ie where the girl is the childhood friend of the love interest and his siblings. Her parents divorce and the fallout leads to her living with the family that she grew up with in her younger years. The love interest is much older and of age now and is essentially taking care of his siblings now. Ill have to read it to see if it still appeals ro me now but at the time i found it wholesome despite the obvious tropes of it sounding pretty suspicious. Both the age gap and her being practically adopted into that family albeit just in her last year of high school.
Concordo com a sua opinião sobre esses Tropes.
relacionamentos tóxicos devem ser tratados mais sérios (Professor e aluna,Yanderes etc)
Generally agree with what you're saying in this video, but I always thought the relationship in Mirai Nikki was supposed to be cautionary, not romantic/aspirational. Like, the longer you watch that anime, the more you find out how absolutely horrible all the characters are, especially the mains. It's a good anime in my opinion, but not very romantic...
Hey I'm new here to your channel! Loved the video and your thoughts, just a few questions/thoughts of my own.
1) Favorite or go to teas? 😂😁
2) I watched all of domestic girlfriend, and I've never regretted anything more in my life. Idk why i thought it would get good or turn out okay, it absolutely did not. I wouldn't condemn my worst enemies to watch that dumpster fire.
3) Age gap is a huge no go for me, i dont hear people talk about it very much personally, but its a PROBLEM. I do wanna ask though if you've seen Higehiro? It was something that took me by surprise, but was an interesting watch. It's not the usual super creepy age gap thing, but something very different, idk how to truly feel about it.
Serious things, such as abuse, the death of a relative, or unfaithfulness being treated as a gag. Sometimes it even goes as far as to treat assult as comedy. I understand that in the right situation it can get a laugh, but if you raise your audience to laugh at these things, youll inevitably create anime fans who will never take them seriously. At the very least, these tropes can stand to be more self aware about themselves before making jokes of these things. I dont have a problem with dark humor, but again...The issue comes with awareness, which these tropes often fail at. The same way one would be offended if an oblibious person (not of color) told a racist joke towards people of color, these dark topics require the appropriate awareness and respect.