Star Trek Voyager's IMPOSSIBLY Tiny Planet
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Remember that ringed planet in the Star Trek: Voyager opening titles? Well.... it's a pretty crazy planet.
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The limited use of the copyrighted clips and music in this video for analysis and commentary are in line with fair use principles in US copyright law.
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CREDITS:
Brought to you in part by patrons on Patreon! / echenry
Håkon Nilsen
TK2 Films
Joseph Jonathan Marcus
"Bad Wolf Solutions"
Dominick LaLicata
Sam Williamson
Daniel Day
Music: Kevin MacLeod, Incompetech.com
Those aren’t banded gas clouds. The entire micro-“planet” is an art installation commissioned by the Federation for Star Fleet recruiting videos. The planet was carved from colored sedimentary rock, hauled out to space, spun, then decorated with a ring system.
There was a bit of controversy about funding the project, but even its critics agree “It looks cool.”
uh... the federation literally doesn't have a monetary system -.-
@@mrbuttocks6772 Wow, bravo sir! You logically and factually deconstructed this _obvious fucking joke_ with deft and skill! Well done.
@@mrbuttocks6772 r/woosh
Some of Slartibartfast's finest work.
Why go through all that trouble when you can just create a simulated render in the holodeck?
"So you beamed down to a random location on a _planet,_ and it just _happened_ to be within walking distance of the 'plot'?"
"Well, the planet _was_ only 6.2km in diameter."
"Oh, well that's perfectly reasonable then."
Normally they beam to sources of 'unusual readings.'
And the best comment award goes to....
Explains all the alien monocultures too. It's not as surprising that everyone dresses the same and talks the same when your entire world is 6.2km wide.
Q made the planet as a joke
First answer here that's legit enough to answer to. Yes. That's a good one. Maybe he named it Vash.
:D
Or made voyager much larger
I can easily see him making that planet in Voyager's path just because he knew that, with her scientific mindset, it would drive Janeway nuts trying to figure it out.
Or there's a spacial field that's shrunken the planet's size like what happened to the one runabout on DS9.
That's why Voyager does a flyby because the Dwarf Planet is Technically impossible yet, there it is. Definitely needs a scan.
Kim: “Captain, our scans are reading gravimetric fluctuations below the surface along with a structure containing antimatter relays. There seems to be some kind of a power source within the planetoid, which is generating a antigravity field beginning outside of the atmospheric boundaries.”
Tuvok: “It seems to be repelling matter coming from outside the barrier, and compressing anything that falls within. Logically, due to the antimatter within the planet exerting an outward force, the closest we can get is exactly above the ring structure, which is balanced by the internal and external opposing forces of gravity.”
Janeway: “mr Paris, take us in”
Tuvok: Captain we've finished a scan of the planet and.
WE AIN'T FOUND SHIT!!
Tim Russ the actor who played Tuvok in Voyager was the one guy in spaceballs with that line.
This is why you have to be very careful when you make a show that has a huge nerd following. We'll calculate the dumbest things that we notice.
This video isn't dumb at all.
I agree. It's entertainment TV not a Neil Degrassi Tyson program.
Nothing dumb about this. I’ve complained endlessly about the obscenely ridiculous dimensions used on Star Trek, and for some reason, they keep doing it as if no one is noticing.
On many occasions, the dimensions of the ships compared to humans or shuttle craft are just preposterous. On The 37’s (VOY), they presented the ship in such a way that it’d be tighter quarters than an early submarine.
Recently, Star Trek Discovery showed this scene where they were traversing the cavernous innards of Discovery (FYI - space would not be wasted like that on a space ship), and the turbo lift traversed a space so large, it would have to have been several miles long.
Star Trek needs to do better. Hell, they need to remaster VOY and get the proportions correct.
Well said. Beyond the fact that it's a tv show and visuals are for effect, if one really wants to geek out, then to say that this area of space being flown through has to somehow follow "normal", from no other data save the visual, is silly. This is in fact the planet made of virtualtanium. Do you, dear readers, know the properties of virtualtanium? If you did, you'd realize exactly why this planet is the size that it is.
Nerds: "Artists. Heh."
Artists: "Nerds. Ugh."
I imagine the 3D artists from Voyager watching this and they’re pulling their hair out while muttering to themselves, “it’s just a show. It’s just a goddamned tv show!”
Exactly my thought! XD
No, it's Star Trek!
But it's a Star Trek show.
@@Fridaey13txhOktober and Trek has *always* played fast&loose with the science.
I don't disagree. But... tell that to The Expanse. :P
3D artist: Ah its finished!
Art director: Cool! How bout ad a reflection on the rings?
3D artist: Yea good idea!
Art Director Secret Identity: Q traveling back in time to mess with people. Again.
As an artist who studies science to make my stuff as believable as possible even to the extent of learning how to make my own steam engine as research for my steampunk air bike design (pro2-bar-s3-cdn-cf6.myportfolio.com/d8ae6b998ed80f0ead15e1f18c45f408/032ac536-3521-4f4e-a656-cac3db5ca356_rw_1200.gif?h=db48cfca3898d9e6810f084111466f54) I'm ashamed that my other creative brethren arent as interested in such studies and only want to creat cool looking stuff, not logical and cool looking stuff..
3D Artist: Ah, it's finished!
Art Director: Coll! How bout add a reflection on the rings?
3d Artist: (Thinking: Are you fucking kidding me I spent twenty four days letting this 12 second clip render and now you want REFLECTIONS!?) Out loud: Yea, good idea!
@@ga1actic_muffin To be fair, there is plenty of room for just having stuff that looks cool. That's just part of art. But it is pretty awesome when stuff is scientifically sound as well.
Little did they know what they set in motion there.
The VFX artist seeing this: "Dude, you could've just said the reflection didn't make sense. You didn't have to make my children ashamed of their father."
Honey, I shrank the gas giant.
Honey, I blew up the ship.
this is underrated lol
Someone get Rick Morranis out of retirement and make this movie. We could do a crossover with "Spaceballs" and call it "The search for more money."
Sooo.....size matters?!?
@@Iceflkn Up Your Arsenal!
My thought: the 3d artist who did the intro is not a scientist. :)
Likely, but they did their "3D artist" job well: it's always been my favorite part of the opening titles.
Not surprising really, since the 'writers' of Trek after TNG don't understand how fleets work, or how wars are fought-- especially ship combat. Even now in Discovery, too. You'd think they'd do cursory some cursory research on some of this stuff, but nope, here we are.
So, what actual space battles are you basing your knowledge on?
Zac Alleywalker Lowing considering since the early days of the space agency we have been considering what interplanetary war would look like,
oh how so? i'm curious actually? I mean sea combat has ship to ship combat with large ass guns but the distances are so great it takes half a mnute for a shell to hit it's target
Those reasons would give full justification for Voyager tanking an interest in that Object.
Leon Cranson 😂
Hepcat that was really good they could use that in the new star trek if they found another planet like that
Captain's Log: Think I'll double post my log.
Captain's Log: Think I'll double post my log.
Actually the Voyager crew did deviate from their journey home on several occasions to explore astronomical phenomena. They are a exploration science vessel after all. :)
This is from the episode “One Big Ship” where Voyager was transformed to huge size by a spatial distortion. They were able to get some extra distance behind them because their speed scaled up along with it.
No such episode exists.... 😂😂
@@rosemarym5334 I must’ve confused it with “One Little Ship” from DS9
@@Kevin-S lol...😂😂😂 For some reason when you commented at first I thought I was in an alternate universe.
XD!
Some franchises have a One True Ship. This one has the One Big Ship. And it basically means the adult main characters and many supporting characters, given they aren't closely related, form a huge polycule across space and time.
OR! This was a COLOSSAL Voyager sister ship!
You, sir, are one of few people with extraordinary imagination here.
@SKENETcz
Damn! You fooled me with your Profile Pic!🤣🤣😂
I'm sure someone is right now thinking of giant Janeway stepping on them and their tiny planet.
if the planet was 1000x bigger then a 300m ship would also be 300km long - about the size of france
@@monoham1 And Square Cube Law begin what it is... probably has enough internal volume to fit most of the population of Europe inside. Comfortably.
It's fine, Q just changed the gravitational constant of the universe in that one area so he could have a cute pocket-sized gas giant planet.
I read this in Q's voice.
He did this after earthlings hijacked his good name and stormed the ancient US capital
Gas dwarf planet
@@thorpe820 which one?
@@whatthefish2082 the one and only Q
"Whenever you notice something like that...a wizard did it"-Lucy Lawless
Or in Star Trek's case, Q.
"Wait a minute, Xena can't fly." "I told you, I'm not Xena, I'm Lucy Lawless."
"This planet seems impossible."
... and that's why there's a Federation vessel with a science suite doing a flyby, I guess? "Explore strange new worlds" is in the mission statement, after all.
^ Best explanation I've seen so far
Came here to say this. Kudos!
I typed this before I saw this, could also be a man made anomaly they are checking out.
Very true. We can't assume it's a "typical" gas planet simply by looking at it, anyways. The atmosphere may be too thick to see through, but maybe just below the surface, the rest of the planet is extremely dense and rotates fast enough to become spherical. And maybe its extreme density and rotational velocity caused tidal forces to rip apart its only moon, hence the relatively close ring system and no sign of other moons. I could see how this could exist, albeit rare... which still fits within the realm of "explore strange new worlds".
@@RetroGuy_77 Also we don't have to assume it's stable like Saturn. If the orbital mechanics rip it all apart ten seconds after Voyager leaves, that's fine for us.
If Pluto is now categorized as a dwarf planet, this is OBVIOUSLY a "gas dwarf". The treknobabble explanation is probably "graviton infused squeezeum gas"
Gastroid.
A gas dwarf would be impossible
-impossible- is the word describing the inability of understanding and explaining often used in the past for many things that are reality of today.
Call it 'spatially compressed', with a dilithium core that creates a natural warp field around the planet, reducing its physical size while retaining its physical properties.
They found a planet where time ran super fast, why not a planet where everything was really, really small?
Now thats interesting if now highly unusual. First gas giant now Gas drawf? hmmm Thats a new interesting typle of planet catagory let alone for a drawf planet such as a gas drawf and one that worth more studdy and theoretical debate in the astronomy community.
i just think you like showing Robert Picardo's name over and over :)
Mission Reloaded Tim Russ! Tim Russ!
Please state the nature of the scale emergency
Photonic lensing caused the reflection of Voyager to appear much larger on the rings than they should have.
That, or the mini planet is a scale model created by an alien elementary school student for a science fair project.
Well they're national treasures so why not?
alienclay2 : 👍👍 it seems that you have a great imagination. 🙂
so from what I've understood the 3D animator could've easily avoided this if he didn't add the ships reflection on to the ring?
If you add legs to a picture of a snake, it become a picture of lizard.
Yes, exactly. The reflection creates the scale of distance to the rings. If the reflection wasn't there, you could easily assume the Voyager was hundreds of miles from the rings.
@@thudthud5423 Oh at the least, have a microscopic, have the visual cues of it's presence being more subtle or minimal, suggesting greater distance between Voyager and the rings (Logical) and also dimensions of the rings and what's in them, themselves, let alone the 'Gas Giant' producing such an orbital system. If anything making it 'More accurate' would add to the Majesty, scale of the opening, making it even more impressive. Unfortunately missing these details can be a drawback - but these kind are where are original release improvements, ala the much maligned efforts of Lucas and his tinkering with Star Wars or even what they did well apparently, when transferring TOS and TNS to DVD/Blu Ray re-masters? They amended small details, keeping to source best their could, but subtle amendments adding to greater realism and more, what we know today and advances we have to display that. This is an area, they could just remove or adjust the environmental impact the Voyager has in that opening to better reflect the dimensions of the environment it's interacting with. It only takes a little trickery these days, even Fans like this uploader could fix it with the tools we have today!
@Thud Thud Exactly! Maybe even a few thousand miles!
@James Fondren I second that
"Oh can we have the ship reflect in the ice asteroids?" - "They're too far away, the reflection would be tiny." - "Just make it bigger, then! Noone is gonna care."
Never underestimate Trekkies.
@@liamloxley1222 like a hologram, that could actually work. Well, if ice asteroids were shiny crystals rather than dusty clumps of ice powder.
And if voyager was illuminated by an blinding light
"Trekkers"!
They found the Kerbol system
Kerbin has a diameter of 1200 km.
Not really.
@@RandomNameLastName811 But Gilly doesn't have a complex ring system like this...
This planet is so tiny that Voyager should probably have been enough to destroy its ring system and disturb its orbit just by passing by. :p
And they got TF out there
In stellaris there is a kerbol system
“It’s not only small for a planet, it’s smaller than many asteroids!” IT’S SMALLER THAN A CITY, MAN
There's towns in Kansas larger than this thing.
Most asteroids are smaller than major cities, like London or NYC
@@christophfischer2773 reading comprehension 101
Wouldnt the computers of the 90s have crashed hard if they tried to make an accurate cgi scale of a planet next to a starship?
Easy answer: this was an artificial satellite they just visited. The species that built it had a sense of Aesthetics that made the idea of using artificial gravity and whatnot to make their station look like a planet a reasonable expense. I mean, why would Voyager be cruising that slowly that close to a random Planet anyway?
But how do they make the ring look like it's made of tiny rocks when close-up but behave as a mirror from further away? I've never seen my reflection in gravel or sand.
@@DanielLCarrier what if you look at it like a shadow not a reflection like a simple trick of the light
@@mikarinr5888 It's brighter than its surroundings. A shadow would be darker.
Alternate easy answer: Because it's a ship of exploration and science. And THIS little weirdo of a planetoid is extra friggin weird. So, scan the hell out of it and let's go look at the other weird crap in this weird solar system.
I'm wondering if it's just because it's the intro to a television show, which is entertainment, which is really just to look nice visually and show off their sfx budget. And maybe not attempting 100% realism
“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you.” -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
that sounds just like something Q would say
"Q is under no obligation to make sense to anybody at all" -- Fritz 2021
yep, but we should be care about this phrase. It's not an invitation to ignore the objective phenomenons. It's actually an invitation to avoid to trust in conjectures about phenomenons. Conjectures are useful but still an intermediary between us and appearances.
BUT it is actually better deal with this intermediary that try to explain physically the things than avoid any explaining, deny explanations.
There is an older phrase that was actually an advance in the way we deal with the reality:
"Man is the measure of all things" - Protagoras
It could not be a great idea, but it's better than mysticism we had before.
"My dingdong is very big."
- me
That's a good quote. Don't put too much trust in your model... it's only as good as it's ability to describe the phenomena that we observe.
"It's only a model."
"Shh!"
LOL Close.
I went with the idea of it being a hologram, kilometres across, generated by some advanced alien technology.
I see what you did there, Patsy.
It is a silly place.
it's tiny planet from Rick and morty!
verlepte it's Camelot?!?!?!
This is just part of an ongoing scaling issue that has always existed in Star Trek (and a lot of other sci-fi) since the beginning. When Kirk's enterprise is seen orbiting planets in TOS, you can see the 1701 arcing. But it should be so small compared to the planet, and so distant from the planet behind it, that it's path should appear completely straight to the naked eye. If it arced that much compared to its size, it would do a full circle much smaller than the planet behind it and much closer. The bottom line is that they don't want to put it at correct scale because it wouldn't communicate an orbit to the eye of the audience. Same thing in this Voyager shot, except that the rings make the flawed perspective a little more obvious.
It is arcing due to a change in course to a wider orbit.
Not to mention, when they say another ship is several thousand Kilometers away,... in an external shot, we see the two ships practically right next to each other nose-to-nose. Nevermind they are always flying the same speed (there's no such thing as "still" in space, because everything is orbiting SOMETHING), facing the same direction, in the same orientation, etc.
Or times when we see a big cluster of ships blockading something,... by all logic, one should be able to just fly around it. Warp the other way for a few seconds then turn and head where you were going (looking at you "Sacrifice of Angels" (DS9)!).
Even though TOS got space combat right in some cases (though not purposefully, as it was a matter of saving budget) by having ships not seen as they were thousands of kilometers apart and zipping by at incredible speeds,... there are other instances where they just fork up. "The Tholian Web" (TOS), the Tholian ships were "just beyond Phaser range" when they started "spinning"(?) their web around the Enterprise. Are we to believe that they made that structure in a thousand+ kilometer radius? And why do we SEE the ships (and the web) in external shots, if they are so far away?
So much inconsistency in other areas too, too numerous to get into here. These are exactly the kind of things I am seeking to address in my own story. Relative speeds, vast distances, trajectory, angles, time it takes for weapons to actually hit (The Expanse actually got into most of these) as well as keeping speeds and distances consistent. Oh, and of course, NO FRAKKING SOUND IN SPACE, LOL
The Tholians were multi-dimensional beings. They existed simultaneously in the standard and mirror universes. And their structure was being constructed from energy. So yes, we're to believe they made the structure that large...
Instead of complaining people can just use their friggin' imaginations. The inconsistencies can just be explained away as data corruptions in the sensor logs. Or, the rings in this video could be made of some sort of refracting material making the reflection look larger than it is. Or maybe Q was just messing around with everyone.
Also if you're worried so much about sound in space, then go watch the ending of '2001: A Space Odyssey' until you realize *how frakking boring no sound is in extended periods* LOL.
Meanwhile, Interstellar and Gravity worked perfectly fine with no sound in space. It *IS* possible, if one puts in the effort to do so, rather than insulting our intelligence with "it won't be exciting enough without sound, so we must put it in, because they don't know any better"
As for the Tholians being multi-dimensional... they actually WEREN'T, they just happened to be near a dimensional rip. The point is, it was practically hugging the Enterprise on screen, but was actually thousands of kilometers in diameter.
The point is, we must work to not fall into the old traps again as we move forward toward the future. It will be well worth it in the long run
@ Mihaly Csere - On the viewscreen perhaps, but not in external shots absolutely. That's why I'm thinking,... in order to keep sound involved, and justify the closer views at vast distances, perhaps larger portions of the battles should be on the viewscreen, in some sort of tactical view. I think its doable
@ Bridges of Cthulhu - just one more of the many reasons I don't particularly care for the Defiant, lol
This is why details can matter a lot, even in terms of logical errors during effects production. :-D If they had dropped the unnecessary reflection on the rings, we'd just write that planet off as an ordinary gas giant with rings.
+ZemplinTemplar but even without the reflection, we would still have the parallax from the three-dimensional camera move to work with. Granted, it would be a lot harder. The reflection just makes it easy! Haha
Indeed, the first time I saw it, it already pissed me off before I even saw the reflection.
Alright I have autism and bad errors in small details REALLY can friggin' piss me off, but this really wasn't something small. :P
If Voyager were 1,000 miles from the planet it would appear as if it is rounding it quite quickly. I put my thumb up and I can cross the moon in a second, and my thumb scale makes the moon the size of my palm. So I guess the moon is the size of my palm right? You have no idea how long the shadow is, the camera is imaginary, and you have no idea where the light source is, so you can't possibly make these calculations. The shadow could be 1,000 miles long for all you know.
you should not watch sf-series
I agree, what this video analysis reveals is how lazy the CGI team was in scaling the ship to the planet, though to be fair to them the rendering equipment probably had upper limits to how big objects could be.
THIS is why I love our Fandom. We obsess over things like this and get such massive satisfaction out of it.
You gotta look at this from the perspective of the time it was made: In the mid 90´s that effect was breath-taking. They are just trying to show off their CGI, basically. Even most people like me, who found it implausible back then already when it aired, were pushing that concern aside and just enjoyed the spectacle.
Ah, you have made a critical error. Assuming that the creators didn't factor every single frame and pixel into a robust and sensible lore setting. If it appears not to make sense, it is because we are humble mortals, who haven't watched every episode frame by frame enough times to find the true explanation.
@@robotshaveiteasy9459 Lets keep on studying the scriptures and spreading the gospel. Exept that kalvin shit
I agree, I enjoyed the CGI effect spectacle and the music and didn't spend time thinking about the scale. We have to take a lot in Sci-fi with a pinch of salt!
If everything had to be physically plausible and accurate/realistic we wouldn't have so many way-out farfetched fantasy ideas... Anyway Sci-fi is all about a 'what if... such and such were possible...' what kind of adventures and events might happen? and seeing that world/universe from its point of view (with its own laws of physics etc.)
Anyway our own laws of physics get really weird on massive and microscopic scales of size and time, so maybe all sorts of things are possible in certain conditions... things no one has thought of yet.
Interesting perspective. I hope somebody brings this comment to the attention of the video author, as I'm sure he never considered this angle... ;)
I'm fairly certain the VFX artists knew the proportions were out of wack when they placed the virtual objects, but left it in because they didn't think knowledge of it would spread far in the pre-internet days or it was left as an Easter egg.
It has a solid uranium core 80% of the diameter. And a thin dense layer of a hydrogen uranium compound gas.
This video does not take into account that a reflection on a ring made up of billions of small ice particles or stones with good reflection ability does not function as a flat mirror. The next time you see the reflection of the sun in the ocean, formed by millions of tiny wave peaks, you will see how enormous the visible reflective surface is compared to the sun.
@@flyingroster05 heyyy deja vu!
@@crintondux Ha ha ha. The sun has a diameter of about 1,392,000 km. but the quality of the reflecting surface is crucial, not the size of the light source on that far distance. On the other hand, the intensity of the light in relation to the distance is important. If the sea were flat like a mirror, you would see the difference, but the sun had not shrunk for that reason. You are now talking to a person who has been studying astronomy since the age of 4 years.
Why jump to such a random conclusion? Are you trying to contrive it being something dense enough to have enough gravity to hold onto an atmosphere? Because uranium isn't nearly enough, it would have to be thousands of times as dense as platinum.
@@medexamtoolscom IDK, just the way my mind works I guess.
I've seen Voyager, the explanation is simple: IT'S A SUBSPACE THINGEY.
Wow, it's like Torres is in the room, that's uncanny!
Quantum!
It's a subspace thingy full of quantum something. Reverse the polarity to get us out of here!
@@HappyBeezerStudios Oh no! The engine matrix thing is critical!
Video effects people: “I knew we shouldn’t have let executives talked us into adding the frickin reflection!”
Q.
r0bw00d yep Q
Simply put, best answer yet!
What does MI6 have to do with Star Trek?
...
Oh wait, wrong Q, my bad.
I was thinking more along the lines of Korob and Sylvia from the TOS episode _Catspaw_ in which the Enterprise appears to be miniaturized. (Whether it's actually miniaturized or it's just an illusion is never made clear.) This could be a miniaturized planet.
NoJusticeNoPeace They do it again in another episode-shrink the ship into a table ornament. its in something something Methuselah.
I guess the Little Prince got himself a bigger and fancier planet at some point.
He liked his planetoid so much he put a ring on it.
This is an “L-Class Planet”. They are impossible for us to see in detail with our current telescopic technology, but on stardate 12561.8, (year 2247) the constellation-class starship Ferdinand will classify its type upon examination of verified data from a class 1 probe.
Source?
@@TrollerzTV "How can it be so cold when the sun is shining?"
"It's not much of a sun. And this isn't much of a planet."
voyager and DS9 seem to feature them a lot. that episode where quark and odo crash and that other episode with that time displaced transmission and the woman suffocating are both on L class planets. seems they're not very hospitable. i don't remember any mention of them being tiny other than that quote above but odo might not even be referring to the size of the planet; he probably meant it was just a sucky place to crash
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Class_L
@@TrollerzTV
Source.
You actually asked for "source".
Now we must bring this to the star trek writers and have them make an episode about it
Sadly, the current flock of "Star Trek" "writers" are merely about mindless action, senseless violence and ripping off Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker series.
I know how it's possible!
1st law of science fiction physics: "The laws of physics are only applied when the creator wants them to."
Or are aware how they actually work.
@@victorselve8349 If they aren't aware, they won't want them applied!
Let's not forget that in the "Blink of an Eye" episode there was a planet that literally rotated once per second.
I guess you can say he brings it up every _second_ he gets?
I'm not even sorry o/
*sigh* Again with the blink planet.
"Johnson! You're five minutes late for work, so you don't get paid for the last 300 days." or
"Hooray, I've got a two-weeks vacation. Finally I've got the time to ... damn, it's already over."
- life sucks on this planet.:-|
Yes but its time was also passing much faster on the surface, so from the planet's perspective, it's actually spinning considerably slower than the Earth spins, so the centrifugal force it feels should be completely negigible. So I don't find a problem with that planet. Frankly I have a much bigger problem with how star trek completely ignores relativity and occasionally revisits it only when it's convenient when you least expect it.
then why aren't they the most advanced species in the galaxy?
it was either this or a planet with a screeming sun.
itchytastyurr hay don't dis tiny planet!
itchytastyurr or.a cobb planet
@Ben Hutchinson hell no
The funny thing is that in Star Trek, all of this could totally happen. There's a planet whose atmosphere speeds up time.
You've heard of gas giants, well how about
*gas dwarves*
I have one that orbits my ass once and a while.
More like gas midgets. Yeah, I went there.
Breaking News! Hollywood creatives get physics wrong.
BUT IS IT POSSIBLE?! THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW! Maybe it was an earth shaped planet with sentient life and the people on the planet created a super dense material that ate the planet and left that. THIS IS WHY WE CARE AND WHY IT'S AWESOME! But sure just look at the obvious and scoff.
@@ReasonablySkeptic Go away with your naiv fun, snowflake!
This is about how hollywood LIES about fundamental laws!!1! 1
They make VERY political claims about scientific facts like gravity or gender and then, well dunno.
Didnt imagined my conspiracy theorie all the way trough.
@@YayaxLetsPlay this show was literally created for homemaker housewives, not physicists.... nerds obviously latched on to the series but it was never intended to be taken extremely serious. You gatekeepers really get on my nerves.
@@spockslefteyebrow8327 its a joke, man
@@spockslefteyebrow8327 Yes and no - didn't Star Trek claim to use 'technical / scientific advisors' etc? I always found that claim baffling myself. I recall noting the reflection the first time I saw this sequence - .."err..the scale here looks very wrong" - so not sure how a team of 'technical advisors' didn't notice
Either the planet is frickin' tiny or Voyager is frickin' huge.
How large would Voyager be if we calculate the planet from a Saturn sized reference frame?
Very rough math, half the size of Earth.
Pretty much the size of mars give or take. It's windows would be the size of long island and it's shuttle craft would be as big as Texas. It's shuttle craft could carry their own massive super star destroyer sized shuttle craft and they could carry fleets of Voyager sized ships that could carry their own shuttles. Roughly scaled the death star would look like a little pebble next to it. It would easily stack up against that ship from the last independence day movie. Thats just the saucer section though so yeah really freaking huge.
Just about every sci fi show and movie is packed with errors of scale. Trek was a regular offender. Problem is, stuff is so far apart in space, a visually entertaining shot of a ship and a planet would be hard to come by.. let alone a nebula or something really large.
@@ajn465 You actually see this in the star wars movie rogue one in the opening shot. You see the shuttle from on top of the rings but then you see it from underneath, which was a mistake because it remains the same scale. You could have made a case for the top view with the ship being closer to you until then.
Based on the scales given here, just shy of the diameter of Venus.
I'm reminded of Spinal Tap's 18 inch stonehenge model that was supposed to be 18 feet. Oops.
this is a stretch but, maybe, if a highly dense object (very small neutron star?) wandered into the solar system at creation, it might been able to form a gas shell from the dust and pulled together some rings, but everything would have to happen just right. but, as we seen recently in astronomy, anything is possible.
Even if that planet "only" had the mass of the Moon, the tidal forces would tear Voyager apart at that range; and the rings - assuming they somehow stayed stable - would orbit several times per second, not appear almost motionless compared to the planet.
Not cannon, but read Star Trek: Federation. In that, the Enterprise enters a black hole. In the Voyager series itself, there's an episode about a rapidly spinning planet with compressed time on the surface, and a planet compressed in space makes about as much sense.
Also it's Voyager... in that show, you could turn into a different species by going transwarp, and solve all your problems by rerouting them through the main deflector.
I doubt it's a neutron star, the surface of those stars are (obviously) extremely hot. Any material that deposits onto it's surface would ionize and glow just as brightly, eventually collapsing into fermionic matter just like the rest of the star.
Maybe it's an artificial structure created by an alien civilization. Possibly a monument to their long destroyed host planet around which their home moon once orbited.
Looking at some of Trek's storylines, it could even be a space-borne lifeform. Some creature using gasses and debris as a self-made home... some kind of space-hermit-crab.
How about if they are used for the creation of energy? Maybe there's a black hole in the middle of it and it was capped off because it didn't have enough matter left to compress.
Would be a nice sequel to Next Gen's "The Chase".
I’d go with the monument/monolith scenario;
An Osmium core could possibly provide the planet with enough gravity, which is completely ridiculous until you realize that any species that decides to build a planet for fun would have to have sub-molecular assembly/nanolathing technology. The ring system could be explained as “overzealous use of tractor beams”.
I really like this idea
Voyager VFX crew: this will be so cool the fans will love it.
The Fans:...
A couple of possibilities that occurred to me while watching:
It could be an artificial construct of some kind. There were plenty of "forgotten" artificial planets in the Alpha Quadrant that were rediscovered in both TOS and TNG, namely the amusement park planet that recreated the crew's innermost desires and the Dyson Sphere, so there is precedent for artificial worlds, plus given all of the fallen and forgotten civilizations found by Voyager in the Delta Quadrant, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say it was a leftover relic from an ancient civilization. It could also be the work of Q or another Q-like entity as either a science experiment or a prank done out of boredom (or even done as a dare between juvenile members of a Q-like race).
There is also the possibility that the planet's core is made up of some sort of hyperdense material or particle with unusual properties, as with the tachyon core planet that progressed through time at a much more accelerated rate than the space around it. Others have speculated that the planet could have formed around a piece of a neutron star that was ejected from its parent or could have some sort of micro black hole in it's center. We know that micro black holes do exist in Star Trek as most Romulan military ships are powered by artificially created micro singularities. To my understanding, such micro singularities can be formed naturally but are very short lived as they lack the sufficient mass to maintain themselves, but there could be some quirk in the fabric of space/subspace at that location to allow such a micro singularity to persist and build up a planetary sphere around itself or perhaps some sort of exotic particle "contaminated" a micro singularity to make it more stable.
Personally, I lean more towards the first idea that it's some sort of artificial construct, though to what purpose I couldn't guess. If I were forced to take a guess, though, I'd say it was probably a science experiment either as a test for a new technology or as a means of generating power for a civilization. It may also be the remnant of some ancient conflict; it could be the remnant of a gravitic weapon of some sort, like a massive gravity bomb or some sort of gravity based beam weapon that malfunctioned catastrophically. Or, it could be that there used to be a much larger planet there that was hit with a massive gravitic weapon attack (or the target of a test fire of a gravitic weapon) that caused the planet to collapse in on itself and this tiny ball of condensed gas was the result. Of course, this is all speculation as there is not nearly enough information from that one short clip to base any sort of real conclusions on, but those are, to my mind, the most likely scenarios for why such a small, complex planet could exist within the framework of the Star Trek universe.
Well, if the planet had a dense core with a serious magnetic field or a core made of a high atomic count like osmium, then it's possible to have a planet of that size with a complex ring structure and gases.
If you look at Venus, from the outside, it appears to be a gas planet, but we know it to be a solid planet of incredible volcanic activity, giving it the appearance of a gaseous planet. A similar situation could be looming here on the Voyager planet.
Capt'n Joe That's what I thought.
Except the planet would have a huge gravitational pull then, especially compared to its size. It should be pulling in material around it like crazy, completely absorbing the moons and rings around it, and anything else for quite some distance.
It wouldn't be like a black hole. It would have a strong gravitational pull for its size but it would still create an orbit.
Venus is a Class Y Planet ;)
I like that explanation
It’s the Rick and Morty planet. There. Solved.
dontbleedthadalo well it’s in the same solar system. This is the size of the gas giants in that system
dontbleedthadalo
awesome
On a cob...
That planet was roughly the size of a large house. A little smaller than this actually so it might be a moon of this planet.
The only way I could explain such a gravity for such a small and relatively light object is a dense, very heavy core. Really heavy. We're speaking brown dwarf kinda heavy. But for some reason it's not a brown dwarf but blue instead.
If they just left the reflection off it would have been ok.
not quite, someone would have still figured out the math since the voyager is moving past it. The reflections just made it easier to spot and get definite numbers.
@@ryanbutcher8357 it would be much harder to figure out the distance between the ship and the rings due to perspective.
@@ratchet600 harder to figure, yes. but given that EC Henry figured out a language breakdown of Ubese, he probably would have realized he could do the 3D Graphic overlay eventually (since that's where the bulk of the number simulations came from)
it would have taken more work but people could have figured out the size/location relationship with parallax because the camera moves around. This is exactly how scientists currently figure out where stars are and how big they are. When they take a picture of it, wait 180 for the earth to move, then take another picture of it, they can compare multiple perspectives to get a good idea of distance and size.
Also the camera passing through the rings tells us it is already very close, so without doing the math, some people may have noticed something seemed wrong.
@@Ferro_Giconi thanks, that's exactly what I was trying to say ... just you were actually saying it coherently. lol
To be fair: it could just be an extraordinarily dense planet.
Cleptrophese The Human Bean a neautron srat
I was thinking something with some super dense material at it's core. Maybe a fragment (tiny) of a neutron star or something like that. Considering how long the life span of a planet is, who's to say this was not a fragile "in-betweent" state of something that was either falling apart or barely coming together. After the moon theoretically collided with the earth, didn't the Earth have a type of right system for millions of years?
@@DPerez3573 the earth was red hot though. My understanding is that something that just formed or is in an in between state should be basically molten. I'm not an astrophysicist though. Only thing I could think of would be q making a gas midgit as a joke or some artificial planet made by the Borg or something to hide whatever theyre doing
There's no material on the periodic table that could coalesce into a planet this size and have enough gravity to sustain an atmosphere. But this could be a neutron star.
@@abisspassenger That's exactly what I propose. Either a neutron star fragment or something small, but super dense. Also, how about this...a micro black hole of some sort. Is there an astrophysicist in the house!!!
Thanks for this - I always knew that planet looked weird!
As for explanations - errrm, maybe it's not a reflection, just a bunch of rocks in the gas giant's rings that merely happen to look like the Voyager?
Matt Bell Dude it's moving at the same speed and in the same direction as voyager. Rocks don't do that
they could be undiscovered sentient space rocks..this is ST..Stranger things have happened..
voyager is projecting a massive holographic image 10000km long onto the rings, making the perspective look off.
Why would they do this? They know theyre being filmed, and theyre trolling the viewers.
well there is alot of ice and rocks between the rings and them as seen with the camera going through it.. maybe the ice is widening the reflection from the ship, so it's the ice rings trolling everyone...
Perhaps gas above the rings is doing the reflecting.
Are you telling me that starships with warp engines are not real? :D
JK. Funny video.
They actually figured out how to build a warp drive, we just can't power it yet 😂
@@buddydellatorre8394 They also need something that produces negative gravity, but dark matter should solve that.
It's a shame these days have to point out if you are joking, otherwise people will get it seriously.
@@ErikAdalbertvanNagel Wdym?
They made the ship up so they get to decide how they work. They didn't make up planets or perspective so we get to make fun of their blunders.
Guess this planet is made of some super dense material, the closest thing to this in real life is a Neutron Star, and it would have to be made of degenerate matter. It could be a cold Neutron Star with a small but dense atmosphere.
If that was the case the atmosphere would be superheated and the rings would have to be traveling extremely fast being that close to a dense object.
+EvenFive That's not impossible. We've seen weirder exo-planets.
if that was the case why would the enterprise be flying so close?
RebelBeamMaster X84 agree. What about gravity, this planet is extremely small which mean it could have immense gravity to hold it all together if the density of the planet is huge.
Trek fan with a little too much time on his hands 😂 🖖
With no good current trek shows only thing you can do is re-watch the good ones
"Bloody nerds, stop ruining TV for the rest of us."
~By me, a nerd
I like it when people "ruin" tv. I also like when people pick apart jokes as if they are serious. It amuses me.
That
Always
Bothered
Me
No it didn't, you're just saying that.
'K?
Why did you give each word it's own line?
Same here!
I think it's for
em
pha
sis.
Im not sure if you know this but Star Trek is NOT a documentary.
Wooooow, really? There goes a lifetime of studying.
here is an idea that "planet" is not a real planet is was a spaceship or station made by / for a SUPER RICH "person". or just a giant art piece.
Possibly a mere hologram, too.
Empire finally decided to camouflage the Death Star.
I think you may have really stumbled on to something, PickelJars! "That's not a moon, it's a space sta- no wait, I guess it is a moon!"
Crafted by the finest planet artisans of Magrathea.
Trump's Escape Ship.
The craziness of the planet is why voyager makes a fly-by
It could have an incredibly dense and heavy core, in turn giving the planet enough of a gravitational influence to maintain its shape and atmosphere.
Actually
this was addressed with NASA and the JPL years ago. While unlikely it
is plausible. The cause would likely have been a much larger planet
having collapsed in on itself much like a star does to create neutron
stars and black wholes with small size
but extreme gravity and the rings were debris from that collapse. The
counter to that would be the proximity to the planet by Voyager and her
not being affected. In other words it started out the size of say
Jupiter or Saturn and a core collapse pulled it in on itself. So while
small the gravity would be upwards of 100 to 300 times that of Earth. Or
what weighs 100 pound on Earth would weigh 100,000 to 300,000 pounds
there and would crush humans like a tin can as well as Voyager if it was
too close...
Johnny Pitt Never really liked it anyway. The captain's voice was annoying.
To quote Hermes Conrad: That just raises further questions!
A planet that small but with that much mass would result in an incredible gravity gradient-the port side of Voyager would be pull so much more strongly than the starboard side that it would almost certainly pull the ship apart. Also, the ring particles would have to be orbiting incredibly fast that close to the planet
Love the science and research that went into this. I concur with the reasoning, but would logically say it's an error in the production. Clearly the reflection, as great as it seemed, is a blooper,
AH HA! It’s a holodeck simulation! Puzzle solved!
Visual Artist: Makes Reflection of Ship
This guy: *cracks knuckles*
"That was a mistake"
"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show,
I should really just relax..."
A la la! 🤓
I'm more concerned about why he can't control when the move begins or ends.
@@lordofentropy Because he used those special parts to make his robot friends.
ROBOT ROLL CALL!
Nailed it !!! It is a fiction show !!!!
Bruno Eiler It’s fascinating to break stuff like this down & imagine “what ifs” but the real answer to all the questions is: this shot looks amazing & makes the opening spectacular, important because back when Voyager first aired, you either sat through the opening any time you watched, unless you had to record it on a VCR (as I did because I worked nights)
Artificial planet
Built by aliens for inscrutable "alien" reasons.
to make Uranus jokes you need Uranus first
Romulans
or a planet with some extreme mass under that atmosphere
Like, having an Prototype for an colonising Mission? Or
to test the Concept of a Biosphere like we did with projekts
on Earth?
Maybe it was artificially constructed by someone who thought it looked pretty.
;P
ThePCguy17 a Vegas planet!
It could be a planet manufactured by the Magratheans (Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy).
Or Rick passed by before Voyager and used his shrink gun - the opening credits don't show Voyager passing the giant naked sky santa.
I figure it’s something relatively obvious like it just has an extremely dense but small core. Basically a tiny super dense ball of whatever that’s on the verge of collapsing into a black hole, but not quite yet.
The high gravity could allow some wonky physics at a very non typical scale.
An object that small wouldn't even be round. There is a limit of mass, at which a stellar body becomes a sphere and this "planet", judging by its size, cannot be round. Though, if it's composed of something heavy, then, perhaps it could be. Star Trek is, after all, 70% science fiction, not a science fact.
+Freagarthach I think it needs to be EXTREMELY dense to be even remotely feasible. Maybe its core is made of some undiscovered super-massive element.
Maybe that's why in the opening scene Voyager flies by it, to investigate or something. -)
Could the gas be held coherent by a radically dense object with enormous mass at the center? Like, say... a baseball sized chunk of neutronium?
Maybe it's an artificial planet. An artificial gravity system keeps the atmosphere from floating away. These aliens didn't want to be stuck inside a space station, so they built tiny planets instead.
Freagarthach That is highly debatable. We are inspired by SciFi and draw many ideas from it. I can name 10 inventions from Star Trek that were impossible in the 60's, but reality now. Just because we haven't invented a working prototype, doesn't mean it's impossible or science fiction. Maybe 15% was fiction, but the majority of it isn't, we just haven't invented it or the parts haven't shrunk to the appropriate size yet. Then there are the things they guess that we just haven't discovered... Yet!
Not as weird as the planet with a screaming sun or the planet where everything is on the cobb.
Great. Now I'm going to be thinking about it every time I watch Voyager. Haha
I guess now we know why Starfleet was so interested in it. I guess they sent Voyager to study it
I have yet to see a real answer to the question. The real answer is that white dwarfs die much faster than thought and two dead low mass white dwarfs (black dwarfs) hit each other breaking into billions of pieces. A small piece of the "black dwarf" found its way into a solar system where it's gravity was strong enough to capture an atmosphere and rings.
A tiny planet with Saturn's mass would not produce a scaled gas giant. And if it did capture an atmosphere the depth would have to be more than the measured diameter of the tiny planet. The atmosphere of Earth, which is produced from far less mass than Saturn's, is around 300 miles thick. It is not likely that an object with the mass of Saturn would attract a thinner atmosphere. Even a point with the mass of Saturn would probably have a atmosphere that would measure far more than a few kilometers.
Sorry, nope, that is even worse than just a tiny planet:
If such a dense object would attract an 'atmosphere' that atmosphere would near instantly collapse under the intense gravity.
mdhja7 you are right, but if the tiny planet had the mass of Pluto and was far enough away from it's sun it could capture an atmosphere and have rings.
ABaumstumpf How do you figure? An object the size of an NBA basketball stadium and the mass of Pluto will have the gravity of Pluto.
kraigthorne - well yes and no. It will have the same gravity as Pluto - if you are the same distance away form its core as Plutos surface is.
But gravity drops with distance squared. So if this planet is 100th the size of Pluto the surface gravity would be 10 000 times stronger.
Or just look up Schwarzschildradius.
That is the size an object wold have to be compressed to to form a black hole - and we all know how insane the gravity of those are.
This is an age-old set building technique called forced perspective. See also: how they made the hobbits small in The Lord of the Rings, and how they made Cinderella's castle look tall in Disney World
The reflection messes that theory up.
Depends on the actual view, for example if you used zoom on a camera it can throw proportions off especially at certain angles
DingisMaximus fish eye lens... 🤣
Maybe that is why Voyager flew so close. Because the planey is so unique and they simply had to conduct some readings and observations of this anomaly.
I love the Star Trek fandom! Like who else would do this? Measure a planet by a reflection from the intro of one spin off series! Star Trek is the oldest and most intricate fandom which is why I love it so much!
Wouldn't this be solved if the planet was made out of something astonishingly dense?
Voyager has an episode where they came across a planet that rotates out of sync in time.
Basically 1 minute in Voyager is 1 year on said planet.
So a tiny planet with its own gas and ring is pretty much within the sci fi fantasy realm that Voyager is going for
@@willordordona5429 A planet that bends space time like this is probably just close to a black hole, like the gargantua in "interestellar".
If we were being realistic, then that's precisely it.
I fail to see how it could be that and also a gas giant, though. It would have to have a ludicrously dense core and be surrounded by much lighter gases, but I imagine that would attract many more satellites.
You're being way too kind. In fact this is the case in every episode of every star trek show ever made. They have never rendered the planet at a realistic size for the ship in orbit shots. "Ah but," fans will say "you don't know what altitude they're orbiting at, the planet could just be very far away". No. Before the end of the shot you can see the curve of the ships trajectory. The planet they're orbiting is never any bigger than a few km across at most. I have no doubt this is because in the pre-orbital-space-station era when the original show was made, the only good planet photos we had seen were from the Apollo astronauts either on the moon or near it. And when they finally saw real orbital photos they thought "nah, doesn't look orbity enough".
Things may not be what they seem because of the way camera's see things. Depending on the camera's settings, you can alter the perceived size of things. It was using camera tricks in the LotR movies that they were able to make the hobbit actors appear much smaller than their co-stars in the same shot without anything done in post. It's the same sort of thing that allows tourists to take pictures of them far in front of the Tower of Pisa and look like giants trying to support it.
It's also a basic tenant of cinematography to keep as much in frame as possible. They cheat the visuals so that you can see the ship clearly in orbit around the planet with out the ship looking like a speck or the planet completely filling the screen to the point where the background is practically nothing but a solid color. It's the same reason why in so many war movies members of a unit are always much too close to each other than they would be in real life, it's so you can see the whole group as more than just speck or showing only 1 or 2 people out of a dozen or more.
@@Riceball01 they just didn't do the math.
:video starts:
"Meh, it could just be perspective."
:reflection:
"Ohhhhhhh."
Someone has too much time on their hands.
The purpose of the Star Trek intros is to inspire and express the imagination of the human mind. Imagining little fiercely dense spherical planets with reflective rings is only a sample of the composure's imagination. I did note the reflection and I thought is was a excellent element to add to the scene to give dimensional, or visual depth.
If there is anything I would of added to the scene is to see a cool splatter or wave of disruption of the ring's aggregate as Star Ship Voyager passes through it.
The orbital velocity of such a ring system would be insanely fast.
I was thinking something very similar. The rotational gravity created by a spin of a dense body or something. I should know my science better. *lol*
Only if it was something incredibly dense like a neutron star. If that planet were as dense as rock, the mass would be tiny. The orbital velocity would likewise be tiny, and the escape velocity low.
It's a ball of neutronium. Oh no, sorry, it's too big to be that...
I bet you the CGI guys never figured on this level of scrutiny!
Asura: "Every time I gaze through my astronomical telescope, I am always amazed at how gassy Uranus is."
Norn: "I can't help it. It's the barbecued Dolyak meat."
Asura: (face palm)
Guild Wars 2
i didnt expect a gw2 joke below a star trek video
Voyager is not flying my smart man, I love Voyager the way it is, don’t mess with my favorite Science Fiction passion.
SOMEBODY'S TOLD YOU ALL THIS SHIT IS MADE UP, RIGHT? 🙄
Yo, EC Henry, if you're *not* an astrophysicist, then, may I ask what it is that you *do* for a living? I mean, all your videos are *super* in depth and well-researched, and since you've done videos about linguistics, astrophysics, starship design, and the math of the Star Trek economy (to name a few), it seems that you're at least a decently familiar with all of those topics. So...what in the world do you do that gives you this much knowledge on this many diverse subjects?! Or do you really just do, like, hours and hours of research for each 5 minute video? Because if that's the case, then I'm pretty sure that would make you one of the few UA-camrs I know who is *that* dedicated to each video. Like, that is some seriously impressive dedication my dude.
The star parallax in the TNG intro shows that the stars are about 15 meters wide.
My pet peeve with the updated TNG intro is when they go back to reusing stock footage and the stars inside the rings move differently than the ones from outside. Been bugging me for 30 years.
ST always had off scales. V'Ger, the dyson sphere, whale probe, Borg ships...
Just sayin'.
Borg ships hanging in the void... much in the way that bricks don't...
It’s an asteroid that was terraformed using Project Genesis.
Not terraformed, that would mean it was made earth-like. Maybe Jovoformed or Cronoformed (Cronus was the Greek counterpart to the Roman god Saturn.)
I choose to believe there's a huge moon/planet above the shot, moving past with Voyager, that amazingly has a very similar reflection on the ring as the ship.
Also what we're looking at might not be Voyager but the mimetic copy after losing its molecular cohesion, spread to an enormous 'shadow' resembling the original form.
The planet may have an extremely dense core
The number needed to describe the density would most likely be beyond our comprehension.
It is cold neutron star with diamond core/surface... and remains of oxygen gas/clouds on surface... and some asteroid's caught up in rings... Ohhh fuck this ,the author of this intro didnt care and failed in astronomy /math something...ahhaha
What about thermonuclear fusion?
@@zachman938 nope... so small it wouldn't work...
@@jangounchained5279 but when things are dense they heat up
Janeway:"If that kazon ship gets away we'll be in big trouble. Disable it's engines before it gets to that gas giant."
Obi wan Kenobi: "that's no gas giant. It's a poorly rendered intro sequence."
Janeway stares confusingly at Obi wan standing at ensign Kim's operation console.
Janeway:"Tuvok! How did you lose the high ground!?"
So that is where Rick and Morty got the idea for that Tiny Planet they where living on for awhile.
....wonder what episode of Star Trek they got the Screaming sun idea...hmmmmm?
That's just the Teletubbies sun all grown up
@@chrismanuel9768 Emporer Pelositine: Good morning......Its Sunday Morning
Could be the reflection is deceptive: the math assumes a clean reflection but rings are made of little floating ice bits that reflect light in unpredictable ways, it could be that Voyager is much further from the rings and its reflection simply looks bigger than it should for its distance.
I only looks like a reflect, but it's really just the ring material reacting to some scan Voyager is subjecting the rings to. A very wide scan. I they're scanning for Waldo. :P
"I _told_ you to skip the reflection, Kevin! But noooo..."