As with any mass-produced item, anything that deviates from the standard will raise cost for the manufacturer and thus for the client/consumer. There's a reason why Ford didn't offer any sort of extras/options on the Model T and why they only ever sold it in one color: To keep cost down. I would look at this from a positive POV: The GF is highly customizable to your own specific needs/desires - that also means that you'll have to put in a bit of "work" yourself but that's the price you pay for a very solid gimbal/stick that will last for years and years and which you can use in all sorts of ways (desktop, side-mount, center-mount, as part of a simpit, etc). Plus: Swapping out springs is a matter of a few minutes, especially if you've watched the above video (that's all the help I had when I did it for the first time). If you can assemble an Ikea desk or sideboard, you'll be able to swap out springs on a GF. Plus plus: Springs can snap/break with prolonged use so you will have to replace them at some point in the future, anyway. Might as well just start with that level of "self-service" from day one. Especially since as a new customer, you'll have no idea how exactly, say, a single 10A or 20A or dual 30As on the Y-axis will feel, so anything you could tell VKB before you order would be an uninformed guess.
Does the MK IV still have the chrome plated cams? The chrome on my MK III cams started wearing off making for a roughness in the movement. I had to take it apart and clean it up. The cams should be polished stainless steel.
I have dual Kosmosima sticks on the GF base that arrived last week. How do you know what springs/cams come installed on delivery and which ones best suit space sims i.e EDO? I want to get any and all information on whats's in the box that can be used as alternatives before I start changing anything. Any advice/tips would be excellent guys n gals.
Congrats on your purchase. They should be equipped with soft Avia cams and #20 springs. I suggest installing soft Space cams on the right device and hard Space cams on the left one, with 1x#20+1x#10 springs per cam on right and 1x#20 springs per cam on left.
The wire of my extractor tool broke when I removed the springs. There's an extra wire, but that broke too after replacing two springs. I have a bag of springs that says #50A and another one that just says 50 on a sign of a weight for balancing scales. Are they the same? I have the extension.
The trick is not to allow the wire to get caught between the spring and the post; just pull it sideways before releasing the spring. But you could use a metal wire or a fishing line piece instead, just protect your eyes. The 50 springs are the same in both baggies.
Fantastic ! I'm using the vkb rudders since like two weeks and I reversed the cam and used the second spring position. I liked so much not having to fight the center position that I want the same for the stick. Enough of the Warthog. Your design is not only much better, but it is almost against the current dogmas of excessive optimisation and compromises for maximising benefit. Thanks for existing 👍🏻
Noob here. Can you explain *why* you are making these adjustments? Why would I need to swap out cams and springs, and adjust clutch? Aren't these things correctly installed at the factory?
Some examples are: If you don't like the increasing tension further away from center, use the Space cams. If you want a stronger center feeling, use the Space-H or Avia-H cams. If you're using a stick extension, put in stronger springs because of the longer lever the extension creates. If you only like flying helicopters, use lighter springs and either Avia-S or Space-S cams. Using a really long stick extension? Double up the springs on each cam! Dry clutch adjustment is up to you.
Different folks have different tastes. The difference in feel between very light springs with light or no clutch and very strong springs with heavy/strong clutch is quite significant. It also depends on your preferred sim. I do almost only fixed wing, WW2 stuff for which I prefer a very stiff Y-axis for added precision on the elevator and light to medium stiffness on the X-axis (ailerons). Which is probably all wrong for some folks who fly space-sims. Other things you might want to control, like the cyclic on a helicopter, have completely different demands WRT spring/clutch settings, etc. As for the GF's components and what they do or why you'd want to change them: - The cams determine the general behavior of an axis as you push it through its range of motion. "Space" produces a very linear motion while "Avia"-cams gets progressively "stiffer" as you push towards the end of the axis (to simulate wind-resistance over the control surfaces, I guess). "Soft" means there's nearly no center notch for you to overcome when you push through the center of the axis. "Hard" means there's a pretty pronounced center notch which you will feel on your way from, say, full elevator up to full elevator down. - The springs both offer resistance to your movements and will pull the stick back to center when you let go. The harder the spring, the harder it is to move the stick around and the "snappier" it will go back to center when you let go. This depends on taste and type of flying you do, but also on your specific setup. For example: If you add a grip extension, your leverage over the gimbal increases significantly and you will have to install much stronger springs to maintain the same level of "feel" or stiffness that you got with just the grip installed. - The clutches/brakes act as a sort of dampener which controls the motion and reduces its "springiness". Pretty similar to how a dampener in a car keeps the body's motion "controlled". Without dampening, your car's body would just bounce up and down on the springs for a pretty long time whenever you go over rough terrain. It's the dampeners that eliminate that "springiness". As is demonstrated in the video: In a joystick, an under-dampened (or not dampened at all) stick will snap back to center when you let it go from full deflection and then wobble around at center before finally settling on 0/0. A properly dampened stick will still quickly snap back to center but the "wobbling around" bit will be greatly reduced or gone altogether, depending on how much clutch you run on what spring strength.
Agree needs zoom. He's unhooking the springs - basically with a tool that hooks around the ring at the end of the spring allowing you to lever it off. It's clear when you open the base up and look at how the springs are attached.
Yeah, who needs all those different cams, many springs combinations and dampeners? The Gunfighter base is for nerds and geeks. Chads are using this: www.google.com/shopping/product/487794457857526400?q=controller&prds=epd:12772021182574873727,eto:12772021182574873727_0,pid:4287139105180050832&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwmZOcrvaCAxWiMDQIHZRxC24Q9pwGCAU
The whole reason why it's $550 is because it's an ENTHUSIAST hotas base and a damn good one too. Everything demonstrated in the video is virtually a one time thing. Quit being lazy lol
Wife's breath, lol! You guys are great. Thanks for the tutorials.
That "wife's breath" joke caught me totally off guard and slayed me.
Amazing joystick! How I want try it! It's looks totally different with plastic mechanics of Gladiator.
Maybe it's an unrealistic expectation but I'd pay to have my springs and cams of choice installed from the factory...
With the price they charge i think this would be included
As with any mass-produced item, anything that deviates from the standard will raise cost for the manufacturer and thus for the client/consumer. There's a reason why Ford didn't offer any sort of extras/options on the Model T and why they only ever sold it in one color: To keep cost down.
I would look at this from a positive POV: The GF is highly customizable to your own specific needs/desires - that also means that you'll have to put in a bit of "work" yourself but that's the price you pay for a very solid gimbal/stick that will last for years and years and which you can use in all sorts of ways (desktop, side-mount, center-mount, as part of a simpit, etc).
Plus: Swapping out springs is a matter of a few minutes, especially if you've watched the above video (that's all the help I had when I did it for the first time). If you can assemble an Ikea desk or sideboard, you'll be able to swap out springs on a GF.
Plus plus: Springs can snap/break with prolonged use so you will have to replace them at some point in the future, anyway. Might as well just start with that level of "self-service" from day one. Especially since as a new customer, you'll have no idea how exactly, say, a single 10A or 20A or dual 30As on the Y-axis will feel, so anything you could tell VKB before you order would be an uninformed guess.
Great video. Loved the comment about wife's breath
Please do a video that explains how to justify purchase to wives.
That's simple: 1. divorce, 2. but joystick, 3. go to church again. ;-)
Just make sure you order a handbag at the same time.... Simples!
sing Danger Close for a month straight
This is so funny
Does the MK IV still have the chrome plated cams? The chrome on my MK III cams started wearing off making for a roughness in the movement. I had to take it apart and clean it up. The cams should be polished stainless steel.
I have dual Kosmosima sticks on the GF base that arrived last week. How do you know what springs/cams come installed on delivery and which ones best suit space sims i.e EDO? I want to get any and all information on whats's in the box that can be used as alternatives before I start changing anything. Any advice/tips would be excellent guys n gals.
Congrats on your purchase. They should be equipped with soft Avia cams and #20 springs. I suggest installing soft Space cams on the right device and hard Space cams on the left one, with 1x#20+1x#10 springs per cam on right and 1x#20 springs per cam on left.
The wire of my extractor tool broke when I removed the springs. There's an extra wire, but that broke too after replacing two springs.
I have a bag of springs that says #50A and another one that just says 50 on a sign of a weight for balancing scales. Are they the same? I have the extension.
The trick is not to allow the wire to get caught between the spring and the post; just pull it sideways before releasing the spring. But you could use a metal wire or a fishing line piece instead, just protect your eyes.
The 50 springs are the same in both baggies.
hi. i understood that out of box ,soft cam are installed. but for the springs i don't know? 10?40?50?
One #20 spring on each axis is factory default.
@@VKBSim Ty I was not sure.
Is there any ways to change the spring of twist
Are these cams and springs included when buying the joystick or it has to be purchassed separately ?
All the GunFighter bases are coming with 4 sets of cams and 4 or 5 (depending on your extension) sets of springs.
Fantastic ! I'm using the vkb rudders since like two weeks and I reversed the cam and used the second spring position. I liked so much not having to fight the center position that I want the same for the stick. Enough of the Warthog. Your design is not only much better, but it is almost against the current dogmas of excessive optimisation and compromises for maximising benefit. Thanks for existing 👍🏻
I dont get the camera positioned like this cant see what is being unscrewed.
Noob here. Can you explain *why* you are making these adjustments? Why would I need to swap out cams and springs, and adjust clutch? Aren't these things correctly installed at the factory?
Some examples are:
If you don't like the increasing tension further away from center, use the Space cams.
If you want a stronger center feeling, use the Space-H or Avia-H cams.
If you're using a stick extension, put in stronger springs because of the longer lever the extension creates.
If you only like flying helicopters, use lighter springs and either Avia-S or Space-S cams.
Using a really long stick extension? Double up the springs on each cam!
Dry clutch adjustment is up to you.
Customization
Different folks have different tastes. The difference in feel between very light springs with light or no clutch and very strong springs with heavy/strong clutch is quite significant. It also depends on your preferred sim. I do almost only fixed wing, WW2 stuff for which I prefer a very stiff Y-axis for added precision on the elevator and light to medium stiffness on the X-axis (ailerons). Which is probably all wrong for some folks who fly space-sims. Other things you might want to control, like the cyclic on a helicopter, have completely different demands WRT spring/clutch settings, etc.
As for the GF's components and what they do or why you'd want to change them:
- The cams determine the general behavior of an axis as you push it through its range of motion. "Space" produces a very linear motion while "Avia"-cams gets progressively "stiffer" as you push towards the end of the axis (to simulate wind-resistance over the control surfaces, I guess). "Soft" means there's nearly no center notch for you to overcome when you push through the center of the axis. "Hard" means there's a pretty pronounced center notch which you will feel on your way from, say, full elevator up to full elevator down.
- The springs both offer resistance to your movements and will pull the stick back to center when you let go. The harder the spring, the harder it is to move the stick around and the "snappier" it will go back to center when you let go. This depends on taste and type of flying you do, but also on your specific setup. For example: If you add a grip extension, your leverage over the gimbal increases significantly and you will have to install much stronger springs to maintain the same level of "feel" or stiffness that you got with just the grip installed.
- The clutches/brakes act as a sort of dampener which controls the motion and reduces its "springiness". Pretty similar to how a dampener in a car keeps the body's motion "controlled". Without dampening, your car's body would just bounce up and down on the springs for a pretty long time whenever you go over rough terrain. It's the dampeners that eliminate that "springiness".
As is demonstrated in the video: In a joystick, an under-dampened (or not dampened at all) stick will snap back to center when you let it go from full deflection and then wobble around at center before finally settling on 0/0. A properly dampened stick will still quickly snap back to center but the "wobbling around" bit will be greatly reduced or gone altogether, depending on how much clutch you run on what spring strength.
This music is what i hear on LSD
palm rest should be twice the size it is
What is it that you are doing at 3:21? Don't you think that this needs more explanation and a zoom in? Sorry, but this is not helpful.
Please update this video with a stronger zoom and with a camera angle where the hands do not obstruct the view.
If you don't know how to do such a tutorial, orientate on this one: ua-cam.com/video/dc8LZyThYs0/v-deo.html
thats the extractor tool for the spring, its shipped with the joystick
Agree needs zoom. He's unhooking the springs - basically with a tool that hooks around the ring at the end of the spring allowing you to lever it off. It's clear when you open the base up and look at how the springs are attached.
This video made me not buy your product fyi. Who wants to do all this to a $550 product
Yeah, who needs all those different cams, many springs combinations and dampeners? The Gunfighter base is for nerds and geeks. Chads are using this: www.google.com/shopping/product/487794457857526400?q=controller&prds=epd:12772021182574873727,eto:12772021182574873727_0,pid:4287139105180050832&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwmZOcrvaCAxWiMDQIHZRxC24Q9pwGCAU
The whole reason why it's $550 is because it's an ENTHUSIAST hotas base and a damn good one too. Everything demonstrated in the video is virtually a one time thing. Quit being lazy lol