I am ex wingchun guy and people can make jokes about it but i am finding usefulness in my judo. Like fight for grip, feeling when somebody push/pull my arms from chisao, geting away from traped hands yiu can use in newaza. (Judo+ wingchun is a good combo btw, because you want to get close and when you are close then you can grab and do judo).
Mark Phillips of the fight science channel he is a sifu in wing chun a brown belt in judo and a black belt in BJJ, he talks about how wing chun and judo go together well because both are focused on fighting in the pocket.
Excellent content as usual, thanks Chadi! A follow up video with your takes on Dragos Wing Tsun would be priceless! I personally got stunned at the resemblance of WT and Judo. I surely didn't anticipate that. 👍🏾👊🏾🥋
Agreed. Most WC taught is Yip Man's style, which is incomplete and watered down. Look at older styles and they are noticeably "harder", with far less emphasis on Chi Sao and with a lot more stand-up grappling.
4:31 beautiful kotegaeshi, I use it all the time now in JJJ, but have actually first learned it from Chin na, bottom line is grappling is grappling, Yubi-waza = chin na
I fought a wing chun guy and he did some weird head grab/takedown thing where I ended up sitting on the ground with my back to him. It was pretty freaky
There are historical sources that ancient China had a type of elevated fighting arenas called Lei Tai to test bareknuckle arts and weapons to test each other's skills, conduct challenge matches or settle a personal dispute. Maybe Chinese arts lost their practical applications because they forgot the learning experiences from Lei Tai?
No, it is all because of gun. In Asia, martial art isn't just physical combat but also magic (depends on how you define magic). When western came with guns, years of training become useless, magic ritual become useless. Many died by western guns. So people just forgot about martial arts (the same thing happened in the west). Those who remain just preserving the martial art in a form of what we know today by the term Traditional Martial Art in which later becomes sport.
@@MizanQistina The ones who preserve those forms need to make them workable again via freestyle sparring like the old days. I understand that those guns were a huge factor in history, but people can salvage some of those lost applications with years of practical experiences and research. For example, look for an online article called "Classic Uraken Knockout in MMA" and it's from 'The Way of Least Resistance' blog. Forms and freestyle sparring are intertwined with another.
I learned Wing chin back in my teenage Bruce Lee phase, brought their chi Sao and entering/trapping concepts to my kumi kata. Worked great for me in randori and shiai.
I recently came into the realization of how the two could work. Do you have any examples on how you get it to work? I tend to play off the one handed gripping system for my kumi kata.
@@Xkill89 I basically use a pak sau slapping block to redirect my opponent's attacking grip, and then I shoot out my own grip attack, instead of fist. Didn't even realize I was doing it, until my Sensei pointed it out.
Thank you! Finally someone in youtube who see the values of Wing Chun in combat. ( Dont forget there is a difference between Wing Chun and Wing Tsun.) 🙏🏼
Yes. In spelling. Originally it's 2 Chinese characters.... any form of Latin alphabet writing is just a mimic. I'm tired of this old inside politics, who has the original,traditional wing chung. No one has. The most popular ones come from Yip Man but it is only one lineage. We are all part of the wing chun/tsun martial art family....
Wing Chun isn't best spproached as an art. Wing Chun excels as an abstraction of an abstraction. It is a close range combat system that relies on attributes more than technique. It is not a "striking" art it is a "finishing" system. If you can win without fighting that is best. If not win on first touch. If that fails win on first strike. If that fails continue until you win. Never seek to throw your opponent as you commit your center, but if the throw presents itself always take it as your opponent has exposed their center.
The problem is most people have no idea what wing chun even is pr how functions in real life becuase of the damage done by the ip man movies. It's not a striking system, All the blocking movments that you see on dummies are actually grapping moves wich is designed to create openings within the clinch to do as you will. The hand Trapping stuff is all designed to keep you from defending yourself it's not ment as a defense. It's a condensed form of hand grappling. Its ment to go with judo BY DESIGN.
@@netanelohimwarren3629 Wing Chun has been changed like Jujitsu has been changed when it became Judo. Now everyone wants Wing Chun to be "for fighting." Trying to fit Wing Chun into ideas like blocking and trapping and throwing has already made it obsolete. Like all kung fu to look at the techniques without the attributes is wasted effort as with all martial disciplines attributes come first only then will efficient technique be manifest. The only conclusions about Wing Chun you can draw from dummy work is what Wing Chun looks like when it's lost the initiative which negates your conclusion by design.
When it comes to wing chun, I enjoy Alan Orr's content. He trains in BJJ but wing chun is his only stand-up art. Seems he has a pretty level-headed view of things.
What I can surmise from seeing that sticky cans comp is the purpose for “restarting the match” is simultaneously to train/encourage the person retreating to try to keep maintaining forward momentum and to train the attacker to be more quicker/aggressive with his forward momentum so that he doesn’t lose his contact with his opponent, which would allow him to create distance.
I think it is a wide misunderstanding that people now see wing chun as striking fighting style Because the original person who make it popular, the one who teach it to hongkong for the first time, yip man, isnt using it as a striking fighting style He uses wing chun as a takedown oriented fighting style. In contrary, the striking moves are only three punches and two kicks
As it was passed to me from a student of Ip Man. Wing Chun does NOT emphasize take downs. This is not to say that within some movements one cannot apply a lock however it is not trained in the classical art. We say: Instead of taking someone down, we say, we prefer to hold them up (just as they lose footing) and hit them before they drop. @ 1:40 Wong is using an escape but also a shoulder butt/strike to send him away -- this can be done with a hand, elbow, shoulder or even the hip. There are two type of attacks, one where you strike which must involve control, energy issuing and at least one follow-up strike. Two is called sending them away, where they are sent flying away or may be inadvertently knocked down for lack of footing. At advanced levels there are often two levels of linear attack, high and low used together. There are in fact nearly as many leg/foot attacks as are hand but they are rarely known and often trained in sticking legs. Advanced ChiSao is of course not choreographed the movements related to the energy and position given.
You should check out Alan Orr, he has a channel here, he's a wing chun guy who's guys have been fighting in mma (and some boxing) for YEARS! He literally has to be ignored and dismissed by many skeptics, in much the same way wing chun purists will and "no true Scotsman" him. It doesn't look like what wing chun is supposed to look like to them so it can't be wing chun, as the logic goes.
Great vid, and love the WSL clips. I don't think he spoke much about grappling, as his focus was really on freeing yourself and getting in a position to hit at close range without obstruction. Also, there are no specific throws in any Wing Chun forms, though Biu Jee does have a foot sweep, probably best used as a set-up for a strike rather than an actual take-down.
Wing Chung traditionally has trouble against other Chinese systems like xing yi ans shuai Jiao. It has clear weaknesses that experts are aware of. Some other Chinese systems are more like mixed arts with extensive wrestling and Chin na in addition to striking ( northern shaolin and Chinese kee fut for example ).
almost all of those techniques in wing chun are borrowed (or stolen) from other martial arts to make it more complete, practical and appealing. with exception of filipino wing chun which is mixed with kali and escrima (from quite recent past after very violent events)...
@@jacobharris954 I have a Wrestling and jiu jitsu background (I'm a jiu jitsu purple belt and have been training for over 7 years), I've competed numerous times under ibjjf and have won numerous gold medals. Also I'm one of the instructors for my academy and help teach sport and self defense jiu jitsu. Now please lay down your credentials also
Judo VS Chin Na (Kansetsu Waza) 柔道 擒拿
ua-cam.com/video/pW_rIthdhr0/v-deo.html
Check out Adam Chan's channel if you want to see high level wing chun
I am ex wingchun guy and people can make jokes about it but i am finding usefulness in my judo. Like fight for grip, feeling when somebody push/pull my arms from chisao, geting away from traped hands yiu can use in newaza. (Judo+ wingchun is a good combo btw, because you want to get close and when you are close then you can grab and do judo).
That’s true i starts wingchung first then Bjj and I notice I wa better at grip fighting nd pummel because of WingChun things I knew
Chi Sao with the focus on sensitivity can also help dealing with something that's not talked about enough in fighting Close range which are headbutts.
Chadi, did you know that Bruce Lee's first student Jesse Glover was a Black Belt Judoka and he taught Bruce Lee Judo while Bruce taught him Wing Chun
Are you related to Ernie?
@@varanid9 who the f is Ernie
7:22 that kendo sequence is AMAZING. Foot sweep then split his head open--brutal! Beautiful! Some action choreographer should put that in a movie.
Mark Phillips of the fight science channel he is a sifu in wing chun a brown belt in judo and a black belt in BJJ, he talks about how wing chun and judo go together well because both are focused on fighting in the pocket.
Excellent content as usual, thanks Chadi! A follow up video with your takes on Dragos Wing Tsun would be priceless! I personally got stunned at the resemblance of WT and Judo. I surely didn't anticipate that. 👍🏾👊🏾🥋
Agreed. Most WC taught is Yip Man's style, which is incomplete and watered down. Look at older styles and they are noticeably "harder", with far less emphasis on Chi Sao and with a lot more stand-up grappling.
@@varanid9 nice, thanks for the feedback
Master Wong Sheung Leung. I visited his seminar many decades ago in the Netherlands as a young man. How time flies.
Salut Chadi !!
4:31 beautiful kotegaeshi, I use it all the time now in JJJ, but have actually first learned it from Chin na,
bottom line is grappling is grappling,
Yubi-waza = chin na
I fought a wing chun guy and he did some weird head grab/takedown thing where I ended up sitting on the ground with my back to him. It was pretty freaky
There are historical sources that ancient China had a type of elevated fighting arenas called Lei Tai to test bareknuckle arts and weapons to test each other's skills, conduct challenge matches or settle a personal dispute. Maybe Chinese arts lost their practical applications because they forgot the learning experiences from Lei Tai?
No, it is all because of gun. In Asia, martial art isn't just physical combat but also magic (depends on how you define magic). When western came with guns, years of training become useless, magic ritual become useless. Many died by western guns. So people just forgot about martial arts (the same thing happened in the west). Those who remain just preserving the martial art in a form of what we know today by the term Traditional Martial Art in which later becomes sport.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I would love to see modern MMA fights on a lei tai instead of in a cage. No more wall n' stall! 😂
@@MizanQistina The ones who preserve those forms need to make them workable again via freestyle sparring like the old days. I understand that those guns were a huge factor in history, but people can salvage some of those lost applications with years of practical experiences and research. For example, look for an online article called "Classic Uraken Knockout in MMA" and it's from 'The Way of Least Resistance' blog. Forms and freestyle sparring are intertwined with another.
@@JaxenChaz there is a similar promotion in Japan, elevated arena and ringouts.
if you answer I'll look it up for you if you want.
@@cahallo5964 That is awesome, thank you! I'd love to see it!
I learned Wing chin back in my teenage Bruce Lee phase, brought their chi Sao and entering/trapping concepts to my kumi kata. Worked great for me in randori and shiai.
I recently came into the realization of how the two could work. Do you have any examples on how you get it to work? I tend to play off the one handed gripping system for my kumi kata.
@@Xkill89 I basically use a pak sau slapping block to redirect my opponent's attacking grip, and then I shoot out my own grip attack, instead of fist. Didn't even realize I was doing it, until my Sensei pointed it out.
Thank you! Finally someone in youtube who see the values of Wing Chun in combat. ( Dont forget there is a difference between Wing Chun and Wing Tsun.) 🙏🏼
Yes. In spelling. Originally it's 2 Chinese characters.... any form of Latin alphabet writing is just a mimic. I'm tired of this old inside politics, who has the original,traditional wing chung. No one has. The most popular ones come from Yip Man but it is only one lineage. We are all part of the wing chun/tsun martial art family....
Wing Chun isn't best spproached as an art. Wing Chun excels as an abstraction of an abstraction. It is a close range combat system that relies on attributes more than technique. It is not a "striking" art it is a "finishing" system. If you can win without fighting that is best. If not win on first touch. If that fails win on first strike. If that fails continue until you win. Never seek to throw your opponent as you commit your center, but if the throw presents itself always take it as your opponent has exposed their center.
The problem is most people have no idea what wing chun even is pr how functions in real life becuase of the damage done by the ip man movies. It's not a striking system, All the blocking movments that you see on dummies are actually grapping moves wich is designed to create openings within the clinch to do as you will. The hand Trapping stuff is all designed to keep you from defending yourself it's not ment as a defense. It's a condensed form of hand grappling. Its ment to go with judo BY DESIGN.
@@netanelohimwarren3629 Wing Chun has been changed like Jujitsu has been changed when it became Judo. Now everyone wants Wing Chun to be "for fighting." Trying to fit Wing Chun into ideas like blocking and trapping and throwing has already made it obsolete. Like all kung fu to look at the techniques without the attributes is wasted effort as with all martial disciplines attributes come first only then will efficient technique be manifest. The only conclusions about Wing Chun you can draw from dummy work is what Wing Chun looks like when it's lost the initiative which negates your conclusion by design.
Wing chun!!! Yes, soooo underrated
When it comes to wing chun, I enjoy Alan Orr's content. He trains in BJJ but wing chun is his only stand-up art. Seems he has a pretty level-headed view of things.
The sport of Judo has many, many takedowns.
It stands to reason that a civilian self defense system would share a few takedowns.
What I can surmise from seeing that sticky cans comp is the purpose for “restarting the match” is simultaneously to train/encourage the person retreating to try to keep maintaining forward momentum and to train the attacker to be more quicker/aggressive with his forward momentum so that he doesn’t lose his contact with his opponent, which would allow him to create distance.
I think it is a wide misunderstanding that people now see wing chun as striking fighting style
Because the original person who make it popular, the one who teach it to hongkong for the first time, yip man, isnt using it as a striking fighting style
He uses wing chun as a takedown oriented fighting style. In contrary, the striking moves are only three punches and two kicks
And you need to do the chisau like this if you want to use it on mma ua-cam.com/video/w6LhBPGV48g/v-deo.htmlm47s At 8:47
Not true either the format or platform of the concepts is striking
As it was passed to me from a student of Ip Man. Wing Chun does NOT emphasize take downs. This is not to say that within some movements one cannot apply a lock however it is not trained in the classical art. We say: Instead of taking someone down, we say, we prefer to hold them up (just as they lose footing) and hit them before they drop. @ 1:40 Wong is using an escape but also a shoulder butt/strike to send him away -- this can be done with a hand, elbow, shoulder or even the hip.
There are two type of attacks, one where you strike which must involve control, energy issuing and at least one follow-up strike. Two is called sending them away, where they are sent flying away or may be inadvertently knocked down for lack of footing. At advanced levels there are often two levels of linear attack, high and low used together. There are in fact nearly as many leg/foot attacks as are hand but they are rarely known and often trained in sticking legs. Advanced ChiSao is of course not choreographed the movements related to the energy and position given.
If you want a greater understanding of wing chun type in Randy Williams wing chun he has produced 28 videos all free on UA-cam
Truly helpful content
.... 👌👌👍
You should check out Alan Orr, he has a channel here, he's a wing chun guy who's guys have been fighting in mma (and some boxing) for YEARS!
He literally has to be ignored and dismissed by many skeptics, in much the same way wing chun purists will and "no true Scotsman" him. It doesn't look like what wing chun is supposed to look like to them so it can't be wing chun, as the logic goes.
Great vid, and love the WSL clips. I don't think he spoke much about grappling, as his focus was really on freeing yourself and getting in a position to hit at close range without obstruction. Also, there are no specific throws in any Wing Chun forms, though Biu Jee does have a foot sweep, probably best used as a set-up for a strike rather than an actual take-down.
Love the comment on chi sao, chi sao is somehow a bad practice but Bjj butt scooting is fine🤔💀
If you haven't, Chadi check out Wally Jay and his art known as small circle jiu-jitsu. Thank you for another great video.
I will check it out, thank you
@@Chadi Thank you.
Wing Chung traditionally has trouble against other Chinese systems like xing yi ans shuai Jiao. It has clear weaknesses that experts are aware of. Some other Chinese systems are more like mixed arts with extensive wrestling and Chin na in addition to striking ( northern shaolin and Chinese kee fut for example ).
What would you say are its weaknesses?
👍🏽
Wing Chun uses a lot of jamming with the legs, it can definitely help with unbalancing your opponent.
wing chun guys just need to spar and compete more and not be so dogmatic about their forms
They do already
@@jacobharris954 i mean all of them. not the 0.0000001% that get brought up as examples
when i was a kid they would tell us to train, say your prayers, and eat your vitamins, now they tell kids to cut their genitals off
I may have said it here before, nothing has informed my Judo as much as Wing Chun and nothing improved my Wing Chun more then Judo.
All arts "work"
All arts do not work
@@JL-yq9xn sorry buddy, but it's YOU that doesn't, people need to remember that.
almost all of those techniques in wing chun are borrowed (or stolen) from other martial arts to make it more complete, practical and appealing. with exception of filipino wing chun which is mixed with kali and escrima (from quite recent past after very violent events)...
Not true they are refined to be efficient
It's funny how the title suggests a fight between the styles 🤦
Wing tsun is so ridiculously bad, makes my heart ache when people spend time in it.
The people that are praising Wing Chun have never faced a professional fighter. Change my mind
Spar me
@@jacobharris954 What is your fighting background and fighting record (in mma, grappling, or any other organized combat sport)
@Bluetiger506 I don't train combat sports. I train for street combat. Since half near all the skills you learn for street are useless
@@jacobharris954 Ok, that tells me everything I need to know, thanks for your time
@@jacobharris954 I have a Wrestling and jiu jitsu background (I'm a jiu jitsu purple belt and have been training for over 7 years), I've competed numerous times under ibjjf and have won numerous gold medals. Also I'm one of the instructors for my academy and help teach sport and self defense jiu jitsu. Now please lay down your credentials also
Video a complete waist of time. Its not real