Avatar 2: Analyzing the RDA Whaling Fleet
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Spacedock delves into RDA's fleet of whaling watercraft from #Avatar The Way of Water
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All those upgrades over the Scorpion and they still didn't make the canopy arrow-proof
They could armour it over entirely and use Virtual displays and then the only vulnerable spots would be the rotors or the intakes.
I get the feeling that modern civilian craft canopies offer better protection. sm
If the heroes were human security and the villains were vicious alien natives, you can bet arrows would be bouncing off those canopies all day.
@@ironcladnomad5639i still consider the humans the true heroes so i see this a unfortnunate aspect and tragedy of a company cutting corners that the true heroes suffer under
@@ironcladnomad5639 That would be like a really dark Comedy wouldn't it.
Like Red Dwarf meets a really gory Western.
When I saw Avatar 2 in theaters everyone was all like "omg no! Those poor space whales!!" And I'm the only nerd thinking "That's an Ekranoplan with contrarotating props."
I had to stop myself from shouting with glee when I first saw the Sea Dragon when it just looked like a hydrofoil. I failed to do so when it lifted its foils out of the water and flew in ground effect. There are a lot of designs for fictional spaceships, but relatively few visions of futuristic maritime vessels.
I was doing both.
I did both.
The whole movie I was just drooling over the human tech, thats probably the only thing that made me bother watching it
@@gabrielcalda7033 Couldn't agree more.
"We're whalers on the moon,
We carry a harpoon,
For they ain't no whales
So we tell tall tales
And sing our whaling tune" - Futurama
They’re still waiting for the Wellerman to come.
Wait, didn't they put this in Moonbase Alpha?
YES
This was my thought throughout that whole scene
Brilliant comment!
If James Cameron doesn't want us rooting for the humans, why did he make their tech so badass?
Better yet, if he didn't want us to root for the humans, why make them arguably justified in the form of earth is dying and that the Na'vi refused the initial peace attempts
@@gabrielcalda7033because environmentalism has to be antihuman nowadays
And Cameron has turned into a monster weenie in his elder years. @@allengordon6929
@@gabrielcalda7033 Just because human greed messed up our planet doesn't mean we're entitled to messing up the home planet of another species. Obviously its needed, but just because there were "peace talks" doesn't make humans the good guys.
@@gabrielcalda7033because at end of the day we humans are nothing more but colonizers. The navi people and pandora for that matter is and should not be responsible for humanity mistakes in killing planet earth.
My Avatar rating: 9/10
My Avatar rating without cool RDA vehicles: 5/10
Fr. Many people talk about the water but the vehicles are just as, if not way more, spectacular than the water.
more like "without cool RDA vehicles: 0/10"
Avatars vehicles continue to be the best part of this franchise hands down, absolutely love all the RDA tech that is shown in the film. Would love to see a comprehensive breakdown of bridgehead city at some point too.
It's crazy how terrible james cameron makes the movies story, but makes extremely entricate vehicles and machines that I can't help but be amazed at.
@@unpaintedarmy How in anyway his story is terrible
@@_martian101 brainfluid of alien whales makes people immortal, bad guy died but didnt die technically and is now the bad guy again
@@lokay7233 the first point is make sense, the alien whale could possess advanced stem cell that didn't exist on earth, it's still biologically possible, you just need open mind to accept it, the bad guy resurrected from the dead is also an illusion, they're a digital decoy, they can't bring back dead people, which is also technologically possible, not very far from avatar program which technically transmitted consciousness to a vessel alien body, I don't think any of it is a terrible plot, it's scifi as it should be
There's certainly a bunch of lore for it but not a lot of footage to pair it with unfortunately.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
The fantastic thing about the Sea Dragon is that it's basically a mechanical Tulkun. A dark, grim, steel reflection of the beasts it slays. Sleek, broad profile; a horned "head"; a front that opens in sections like a Tulkun mouth; and a hull with striations like the pleats on a cetacean's throat. It's even taken out by a critical blow striking a weak point inside, and the metal screams and groans as the stricken ship sinks.
poetic
I was thinking how the Sea Dragon's design kind of echoed the Tulkun in the shot at 7:46, where the bow of the in-build vessel with its forward winglets kind of resembled the Tulkun head and its hornlike sensory organs.
I don't care what people say, James Cameron is a cinematic genius.
@@Marylandbrony i mean there is a name for those "other People that say otherwise": Idiots that just repeat false Memes without thinking
Avatar 1 was basicly "Dune in the Jungle" but was't the first Story that Followed the Monomyth Formula, but the Worldbuilding was even more detailed than Dune
@@Marylandbrony Damn straight.
I'm glad to see Richard Dean Anderson has been recognized by the human space military.
As Teal'c would say....
Indeed :)
I missed that, where?
Lol I don't get it. Where was that reference?
@@garypalmer997"RDA" (took me awhile too)
@@maybetoby ...It wasn't a reference from the video...just a play on the RDA part of the fleet name and also Richard Dean Anderson.
All sci fi related stuff.
I like how the crab suit is kinda simultaneously a PRAWN suit and a Seamoth.
One of the Subnautica moments of all time.
@@minibombardier7144 PTSD intensifies with depth.
Each time the human technology is brought up from these movies I am really impressed with both the creativity and the practicality of it.
And yet they still lose, by some miracle
But it isn’t right when RDA invades pandora and cutting down trees and killing animal’s thats not saving humanity I don’t know what is
@@butchboyyt2267maybe its because despite all their fancy tech, they use cockpit windows that are suspectable to arows. They have advanced materials to make the ISVs work but the glass they use is more delicate than the glass we have today. There are nerfs like this placed on humans so they dont immediately annihilate the na'vi.
@@man-from-2058 I feel that the arrows only go through the cockpits when the plot demands it, like when the tree was burned, arrows only scratched the cockpits
@@butchboyyt2267 it was explained as effective range, for whenever those arrows penetrated, they were loosen from close range, so it's wasn't much impossible about the penetration, it all about "how tf could u let them approached that close with all MGs and missiles on board"
Disregarding the ethics of this whole venture, why target "mothers with calfs?" You said they're slower, but the whalers were in the middle of the pod; they're all easy targets at that point. You target the mothers, you're killing 2 animals, harvesting only 1 and delaying the next generation. It's terrible business practice, as theyre not even getting a benefit from shooting themselves in the foot!
It’s not just that they’re slower, it’s that they are at a disadvantage since they have to protect their more vulnerable offspring instead of focusing on their own survival. They’re also not usually killing the calf, in this case they only did to send a message.
That’s an actual tactic used by whalers btw.
Nah the above still doesn’t make enough sense. In the age of sail that would be sound reasoning. But with this stuff it’s more of a “oh no, I have to full throttle for slightly longer”. You can see them easily overhaul the entire pod in the movie. The reason they go for a mother and calf is because “EVIL HUMANS”
@nihluxler1890 it's not that they ARE killing rhe calf, more that the calf would be at an increased chance to not survive to a harvestable age. Similarly, real-world whalers do this because they are limited to where they can engage the whale, namely at the surface when they come to breathe. Mothers with young calves would have to surface more often because of the calf. In the Pandora scenario, they appear to be engaging from within the pod and can force the entire pod to surface whenever they wish. Therefore the "benefit" of targeting a mother is minimal to nonexistent, while the drawback of reducing future output would greatly increase.
There is an argument to be made that targeting the whole pod would lead to disaster, as things would be extremely dangerous if they tolkun tried to fight back.
It’s silly to think that harvesting and transporting a chemical agent across interstellar distances would ever be economical compared to figuring out a good way to just synthesize it on Earth. Things haven’t really worked like this since we were as primitive as the Pandorans ourselves.
You can really tell that this movie was written back in the "save the whales" days because the hunting of the whales doesn't make sense due to the humans clearly having the cloning technology to just grow them themselves for endless brain juice
Maybe they need to eat something to produce the magic goo
@@captainzac24 why would they need to eat when food and nutrients can be delivered intravenously
@mac_attack_zach I mean like a specific plant that only grows on Pandora. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say they might not know which plant.
It does have a purpose. To make the antagonists unsympathetic.
Might be something slowly generated over the life of the animal, where lab grown just wouldn't work? Still not sure why they didn't just extract the glands from one and make a whole biofactory like we do now, though it does mean they can claim sole source on Pandora
I loved the little touches of realism like ladders on the legs of the crabs etc, however I feel that the humans would have learnt from their previous mistakes and weaknesses and make arrow-proof canopies.
That slims the profit. Human resources says that is no bueno.
I really hope that the budget is high enough for the finale of Avatar so that we can see a large scene of a land, air and SEA battle at bridgehead. Imagine seeing all of RDAs shiny toys going toe to toe with the life of Pandora…
And for gods sake RDA. Arrow-proof your damn cockpits already!
If the arrow has the kinetic energy of a car hitting you, armor, at least on an aircraft, looses all point.
@@deathsinger1192doing some quick maths, a 2t car at 50kph has roughly 200 kilojoules of energy, similar to a 30mm cannon...I know the Navi are strong and all but I doubt they can generate that much energy with an arrow shot
...
@@donnerrob6615a normal car is 1 ton btw.
@@donnerrob6615those arrows produce a force with at least 2-3k pounds in a small point which makes the arrows be able to penetrate the windows
@@deathsinger1192 depends on the part of the world. I checked and at least in the USA the average car seems to be roughly 4000pounds, so not far from 2t there. Electric cars have also increased in popularity and those are significantly heavier.
Arguably, i should have used a higher speed as well but in the end this was just to get a rough with some napkin maths, not a precise science.
7:36
General Dynamics, everyone! The company that builds nuclear submarines, AEGIS-type warships, and now...Military-grade Hydrofoil-type Fast Whaling Motherships!!
Pretty sure even this was a military project, looks like it started as a Marine landing craft. RDA just had some minor modifications added when they bought the license.
@@AndrewCZ47ah its like LCAC 2.0 of Avatar 2 before a commercialized version was built for RDA's whaling force.
The scenes with these beautiful sci-fi boats were some of my favorite scenes in the movie tbh
It's actually my favorite in the whole series.
Side note on the Picador: it's a rigid-hulled inflatable boat (RHIB), which is to say a speedboat with an inflated collar around the periphery of the hull. This means that unlike a purely inflatable boat, it can travel at high speeds without collapsing, and benefits from a planing hull shape to lift it out of the water as it travels, while the air-filled collar ensures it won't sink even if the hull is pierced or swamped by waves and fills with water.
I know the whaling aspect is meant to make the RDA look comically evil but at the same time their vehicle designs and tech just makes me go "HUMANITY FRICK YEAHH!! LET'S GO *bangs on pan* COME ON EARTH!!, CLOBBER THOSE PESKY XENOS!!"
IKR it's like a meme "no, you can't come and start killing and destroying everything!" "haha look at my new toys"
Supreme self control is thinking the RDA looks cool and also that genocide is wrong.
The technological version of the bad guys having the best lines.
Abandoned reason know only war!! Xenos fear me.
Here's a fun fact: Amrita in Sanskrit means 'The immortality elixir'. According to Hindu Mythology, the Devas (The 'good guys') and the Asuras (The 'bad guys') finally joins hands to extract amrita out of the ocean for the welfare of both groups by churning it with a huge mountain.
Is that a potential spoiler to the finale of the franchise, a final peace between the two species?
@@gabrielcalda7033 They really should have just negotiated the extraction of the elixir from whales that died naturally
No lie, I would have given anything to have some of these in Subnautica.
Oh, those Reapers would pay.
"It is normal when first piloting a Prawn suit to feel a sense of limitless power."
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
The PRAWN suits are already capable of killing Reapers and even the smaller Ghosts in the Lost Riger.
I really love the Crabsuits, they're so cool looking and practical
So they can grow Navi bodies in tanks but can't grow space whale organs in tanks. Okay.
I was thinking the same thing. Grow alien whale brains in vats and have unlimited brain juice.
@@DarthRagnarok343We can't let things like common sense or in universe consistency get in the way of Cameron's message
why do you even need both of that? just grow your human clone and upload yourself.
@@novakhin1642I think the reason for the Navii clones was they wanted to blend in with the Navii at first? Who the hell knows why though :/
Also why kill mother with child??? I get it that they are slower and easier to hunt, but killing mother and by that the calf is such a waste from economical standpoint for such small time saver when these animals are so valuable for the yellow juice , its not like hunting some lone whale of the pack would be that much harder with tech they got there.
Its just cheap trick to make humans be even bigger bad guys for no reason or logic
Carbon fiber hull on a submarine?
Oh no. Where have I heard that before?
I feel that there is a very untapped market for maritime craft designs in sci-fi
There really is
Yeah is usually about spaceship and land vehicle
Glad you referenced the quote from Scoresby about what he was actually there to do. The Cet Ops crews were commandeered despite not being equipped for a military operation, they were just whalers with a few small gunboats and light aircraft. It's not like that one Sea Dragon represented everything the RDA has in store at Bridgehead City. The third movie is going to be NUTS.
Exactly. Idk why mfs think that the humans are weaklings. They are in the best position from all the movies
Cameron said, Pandora will go to shit so yes. It will be nuts.
@@Taronyu_SVK didn't he say earth
@@Noob-yx1cu Earth is in shit already 😄 No I think he said Pandora.
@@Taronyu_SVK he definitely didn't say Pandora
What disturb me most is the lack of robot and drone in the year 2100s , the only robot they have so far the spider bot which is only used for construction. But yeah if human used automation then the plot seem unfair and seem like there's no loss to human side.
Pandora, at least in the first movie, has lots of electromagnetic interference in many places. You see the sensors of the RDA craft fuzz out when entering the area with the floating mountains.
Yeah, but that doesnt seem true over the sea, no floating mountains, no unobtanium hotspots, its basically a free and open playing field, anything couldve been used without interference, they could even use fighter jets or something
@@randlebrowne2048 what's your point? cuz the remote excavator worked just fine from the station , their tiny bluetooth earphone work just fine , and the avatar itself never lost any signal , the only interference instrument they shown was the radar . so they can still use drone and robot just fine .
@@VJETRA Until the drone flies into an emp zone and gets its sensors fried and it crashes causing a trillion dollar weapon to be lost.
@@coryfice1881 what kind of drone cost a trillion dollars lol.
Talking about the amazing characteristics of the seawasp while showing videos of it getting wrecked
Funny thing about the RDA tech is that it's so well thought out that by the second movie I've started almost rooting for them lol
You're not the only one.
Yeah Jimmy boy did a good job making both sides somewhat unlikable I feel.
"by the second movie"?
"almost"?
Ngl, they're the only side worth rooting for considering the climax of the first movie and Grace's clone "daughter" in second one revealed that creatires on Pandora have no free will. Likely na'vi included.
So while both sides lie about their goals(unobtanium and this yellow goop are worthless, they're not the goal), RDA somehow lies less.
@@TheArklyte This is an incredible amount of media illiteracy. But I wouldn't expect anything else from sci-fi viewers.
the fun fact, the main ship in avatar has similar design with cold war era ground effect aircraft carrier design by soviet that was never build since its would be very expensive to make
I think they were actually designed as flying missile boats and fast troopships, not flying aircraft carriers.
You mean an ekranoplan (it is same type diffrent purpose) but maybe they have a military version which makes everything 10 times cooler
I see Spacedock and RDA. I like
The more things change the more things stay the same but one question remains, would whale cerebrospinal fluid give Navi Immortality?
It probably would if they had the technology for it. But they don't.
Also I bet the water tribes would eventually go to war against every other tribe if they started hunting the space whales.
And besides, the Na'vi don't really need it when they already have limited (or possibly full) immortality via the trees from the first movie.
Navi bullshit abilities grant them everything. They live multiple times the human lifespan, they're more intelligent, stronger, faster, can breathe in any atmosphere and can command wild animals. Such is the power of poor plot lmao
@@JDWonders They're already digitally (or in this case bio-digitally) immortal, every na'vis mind will live on eywa after they died, humans just not aware yet about this
@@Szpareq Let's analyze it, they has a bit longer lifespan than human, not to the level "multiple times" as you said, their lifespan is just 150 years, they're bright minded but only when they're young, which we're also had that ability when we're baby, stronger and faster is evolutionary requirements for survival on Pandora, humans can surpassed them using tools easily, they can't breathe in every atmosphere as you said, they still need high dose CO2 to breathe, something that lethal to human, and only one individual can command wild animals, and not literally command, she's connected to the animals through eywa, she tells eywa and eywa tells the animals what to do, I suggest you to rewatch it so that you can understand it better before calling it poor plot
@@_martian101they might be wrong about those things but i think they are confused between plot and world-building.
The plot is fine, the world building struggles though
What Avatar2 excels at is that it gives you all this cool tech to gawk at, and then it goes out of its way way to make you feel guilty for liking it. =\
Once you realize how comically hard it tries to guilt the audience, you'll just ignore those parts and marvel at the technology.
the whole whaling bit, especially how that little magic goop is more valuable than a ROOM TEMPERATURE SUPERCONDUCTOR and, IIRC, something used in their starships, was just silly. Still, the boat was awesome, makes sense as a forward/floating base of operations. And I like how the evacuation was carried out professionally. Wonder how long it would take rescue to arrive though.
> little magic goop is more valuable than a ROOM TEMPERATURE SUPERCONDUCTOR and, IIRC, something used in their starships, was just silly
Actually it was the most believable part. When you're a decadent rich fuck and you are finally granted a literal immortality serum without any gotchas like "you will die but at least your clone will think he's you", you'll pay any amount of billions to have it.
both movies where silly
A "youth juice" would be extremely valuable for old, rich people. Suicide operations have been carried for much less.
@@SystemBD What's ironic is that the avatars prove that humans have the tech to actually clone/synthesize that "youth juice" rather than just hunting the whales.
I really dont understand the usefulness of amrita, it doesnt have the same versatlity as unobtanium, it just stops aging, while unobtanium is basically making itself the foundation of the future of humanity's true survival
They built a successor to the Scorpion and still did not armor the cockpits
you can either have maximum armor or you can have vision on where you're going but you can't have both at the same time.
@@Timberwolftrass but they can still put like tiny microscopic cameras on the outside of the the hull of the aircraft
@@melikwalker296 Now your gunship costs significantly more, has worse vision (and therefore reaction times) than a transparent canopy and is also much slower and less maneuverable thanks to the added weight of all that extra armour. Rotary-wing aircraft are a lot more limited in the weight they can carry than planes are.
@@melikwalker296 In the first movie, they showed that there are places on Pandora with lots of EM interference. We saw the sensors effectively get jammed when the Scorpions flew into the Hallelujah Mountains (floating mountains).
@@melikwalker296 Those cameras are vulnerable to getting taken out by arrows, animals biting them, or just good old fashioned not working as intended effectively making you blind while in a tin can.
The Ekranoplan was the main reason I went to see the movie
Subnautica reference:
RDAs whaling equipment is basically if Aterra was still allowed to use weopons if it weren't for the "Massacre of Obraxis prime" event.
What did they massacre
@UltraMilk_enjoyer Most likely a large amount of Citizens.
What I love about this franchise are the small, unspoken details they include in the films to add layers of believability. For example, it was absolutely not necessary from a movie directing standpoint to include the “pull-up bars” that the crab suits use to swing off the ship. They could’ve just as easily dove overboard using the force of their own legs, and nobody would’ve even cared. But this small detail that was on screen for less than 10 seconds of a 2 hour film stuck out to me as one of the coolest moments
I absolutely love the new gunship. I hope the new Avatar game has drivable Seawasp. The design looks great.
Unfortunately, from what I've found about the game it is exclusively from the Nav'i point of view. So it's highly unlikely we'll get to side with the humans and play aound with the vehicles.
Afaik you won't get to play as the humans in that game
@@gerhardvancoppenhagen3608 I only played the first avatar game to play as humans with future tech (amp suit etc) :D well I guess I'll entirely skip the avatar 2 game then
@@Optimistas777they must be really hammering down on making humans only the bad guys after too many liked and went for the human ending in the first game
Imagine getting a Battlefield/HALO style third person game for Avatar, that would be lit
One of the things that kinda stands out to me about this is how all of the craft capabilities overlap in kinda bad ways. Half these vehicles seem completely obsolete
That's due to Pandora's atmosphere, as is explained on the first movie, they probably have much more advanced tech, but the intricacies of that specific planet and the way they affect modern tech force the RDA to use lower tech items.
@@danielm.595 It's also cheaper to use reliable tech than off the shelf modern tech.
That is because they're designed to look spectacular, not to actually work.
They're very much 1970's tech that looks futuristic.
Much like the first movie's helicopter being a Bell Huey that's worse in every measurable way except looks.
@@h1tsc4n40hell, the sea dragon is a hydrofoil-ekranoplan hybrid, both pretty unneeded in the modern age
@@gabrielcalda7033 i could see a hydrofoil-ekranoplan hybrid being a not terrible idea, but it's far too vulnerable
The Tulkun hunting sequence made me tear up in theaters, it was so brutal and business-like in its efficiency.
And stupid. There is no reason to target the mothers since they can easily overtake the entire pod and force them to the surface whenever they want. The only reason irl for whalers to target the mothers was because the whalers could only engage them on the surface, which mothers and thier calves had to go to more often. Since the RDA doesn't need to care about that (and the speed difference is trivial compared the the RDA watercraft), the only thing killing the mothers is doing is reducing thier long term profits by decreasing the calves survival chances. And let's not talk about how much cheaper and easier it would be to just synthesize the stuff on Earth than to hunt and ship it (which is something we do with our irl tech all the time).
@@hanzzel6086 I agree that the magic brain juice is a macguffin. But they clearly don't just hunt mothers and their calves, because Payakan got a tracker on him, and he's neither a female nor with a calf. I think they are targeting weaker individuals or loners, but I agree it doesn't make much sense when you think about it, because the Tulkuns don't fight back anyway.
To peel back the curtain and be blunt, you were intentionally manipulated by the director to hate them because they were made comically evil but portrayed seriously. They didn't need to even hunt the whales once they had the compound, as they could simply synthesize it on Earth thanks to the cloning technology they introduced in the first movie just like they did for the Na'vi bodies. When you realize this, it's completely unnecessary for this plot to even exist within the setting of Avatar.
@@nilok7 Unobtanium didn't need to exist in the first film, either. Plot devices are okay if they make the story happen in the first place. If it weren't for ridiculous technology, Star Trek wouldn't exist. Neither would Star Wars. Nearly all "soft" science fiction has a few hand-wavium bits about it.
@@kentslocum (An) Unobtanium did make sense in universe, and was a valid reason to seek it. A room temperature metal super conductor is a holy grail material, one we've been trying to create to no success. It would redefine how technology is made, like going from vacuum tubes to silicon transistors, making all our existing technology better and opening up technology impossible without it. It makes sense in universe due to the situation on Earth, and because we can't create matter.
The reason why the whole whaling plot doesn't make sense is due to having near magical levels of cloning. It isn't the existence of the Amrita that doesn't make sense, it's that we've been shown in the first movie they can create adult clones of Pandora aliens on Earth. They could clone a whole Tulkun on Earth once they get a sample of the DNA and Amrita.
It's because of the "ridiculous technology" that formed the entire core of the first movie, the Avatar clones, that it isn't internally consistent.
Wrap-around pilot display lets you see the arrow with your name on it coming from almost 240 degrees. Money well spent! 😹
Seems like it would be much more effective to clone them.
I mean, they literaly never give a reason why they don't and grow them in some tubes like they do with the avatars and just harvest them, but I guess very subtle anti whaling part of the movie was needed in the movie (also i'm against whaling, like I guess most people with comon sense are, but I just want to clarify it cause it could be misunderstood)
my thoughts exactly. the movie's plot is really stupid if you think about it for more than a minute XD
They can't clone them on Pandora and it takes 12 or so years to get there and back. You think they will miss out on all that cheddar in the mean time?
@@Noob-yx1cu Yes if it's provides more chedder in the long term.
@@elitemook4234 and are those things exclusive? They can't scan it yet still hunt em? Are you acoustic?
Learn from the failure of the Tulkun: When dealing with a persistent oppressive force, apathy can only lead to your death or the death of someone you care for.
I wonder how they market this stuff without saying 'Live forever and screw them space whales."
what makes you think that they're going to market it towards the regular joe like you or me in the first place? nah man, the rich and powerful who spend all their time screwing us over are going to keep all that nifty age-stopping wonder-goo for themselves so they can continue screwing us over as immortal pricks for all eternity.
I always felt that the cost to run a fleet of ships with such specific roles would be prohibitive compared to just flying a plane over the whales and firing a recoilless rifle/canno at the whale to kill it once it surfaces.
Using the depth charge would still make sense, but the again, nothing the RDA makes sense of you think about it for more than 30 seconds.
@@hanzzel6086 True, if the depth charges surface them, it'd be a lot easier to kill.
I'm gonna make a guess that Bartini's work on ekranoplans for USSR is at least mentioned?
This video was more entertaining than the movie itself.
All this advanced tech and they still cannot defeat space Pocahontas' plot armor and magical arrows.
Cope tbh
Very strong toy energy on these.
And most of their problems could have been fixed with a 40mm Pompom, the RDA must have the same appropriations set up the US Department of Defence does.
Honestly, the entire Navi problem could have been solved with an A-10 Warthog and a couple F-35s lol
@@deleted_215 You seriously believe that a handful of planes could eradicate an entire species and solve all of the problems that the RDA has been dealing with? Also, what happens if that single A-10 has mechanical problems? What if it gets shot down? Aircraft can't clear out caves. To say nothing of the logistical nightmare it would be to procure and refurbish planes from 200 years ago, transport them to another star system, as well as fuel and arm them with the necessary munitions.
@@MungoMcGheepretty sure they wouldn’t be able to fly anyway since they’re oxygen breathing aircraft and pandoras atmosphere is mostly co2.
I suppose they probably could make adjustments to the jet engines but I don’t see how.
@@GeneralNaga67The rotorcraft we see use gas turbine engines either way, and were originally used on Earth, and they're extremely close to jet engines in construction. I don't see how a jet engine would suffocate where gas turbines can operate at full capacity.
Those crab suits are some of the coolest machines in science fiction. Their design and overall utility really stuck with me.
Fun fact, they actually build the smaller boats and it was really fast and agile
They actually built them for the movie?
@@Cooldude-ko7psyep!
@@Cooldude-ko7ps yea, they talk about it in one of the comentaries on how the film was made, i know its on disney+ but you could probably find it somewhere else
Definitely one of my favorite mechanical design from recent movies. they are all believable and looks realistic enough to exist in real life.
"Carbon fiber carapace"
I'm getting Titan flashbacks here...
Apparently these humans have never seen an aircraft carrier which can move faster than that tiny skif
I thought the whole whaling stuff was dumb. But the boats were cool
Nobody does future military tech better than James Cameron.
Man actually knows tech too. Since he actually made a deep sea sub that won't implode on him.
does James Cameron actually do the designs and lore of these things or some other writer? since I know he's the director of the movies but I'm not sure if he's the writer, concept artist, art and design director etc.
@@f.b.l.9813 From what I understand he's involved at all stages of the design of the tech. He started out in visual FX before becoming a director so he's very hands-on.
@clearcutter74 Even before that, he spent a year as a mechanical engineering student before switching courses
That he is, too bad he can't combine that with a story that makes sense if you spend more than 2 seconds thinking about it.
avatar has my top favourite sci fi vehicles of all times, and i really hand it to the concept artists, design teams, engineers, and CGI artists to bring them to life. sadly james cameron is so intent on making us the "bad guys" that he leaves out good story writing. but the way of water was much better than the first, and i have high hopes that the 3rd movie does well
Yeah, it'd be much better if the conflict was between a human colony fleet, that could not return to Earth for some reason, and the natives. It would give both sides reasons to fight, without turning the humans into cartoon villains. There could eventually be a forced compromise to allow both sides to live together.
@@randlebrowne2048 that would be a cool plot
@@Shattered3582 There is actually an animated (CG) movie that uses a similar plot called "Battle for Terra". A human colony ship, that is falling apart, arrives at a planet that they intend to terraform to make the atmosphere breathable. The only problem being that it already has intelligent life.
@@randlebrowne2048I remember that movie! It was pretty good, well, better than either of the Avatars anyway. Made a lot more sense (even if the vehicles weren't as good). I wonder if I still have a copy of it...
Humans are not the bad guys. RDA is.
The next villain will be a railroad tycoon with an armored train. 🤣🤣🤣
Wait, Hellfire missiles? Do the humans in Avatar use evolutions of our current tech?
They use copies of early 22nd/late 21st century tech since the planets weird energy prevents use of AI powered weapons
I mean the Chinook is so good the US doesn’t plan on replacing it for another 50 years so I wouldn’t doubt the same could happen to the hellfire
In real life, we're still using the M2 Browning .50cal machinegun. It's almost a century old; and, there is no sign of NATO ditching it anytime soon, either.
Avatar is set 120 years in the future, people today are still using the Mosin Nagant which first entered service 130 years ago. Hell the AR-15 is already 60 years old, the AK is now 76 and the M2 Browning was designed 105 years ago. In fact the longest serving firearm the Brown Bess musket was in service with the British Army for over 200 years before it was replaced.
A lot of our current military tech is modified from 50's designs. Modern tanks are just slightly upgraded variants cause the tech is mature.
The sea dragon feels too small to carry all of its auxiliary craft without its being very cramped
So much money invested into the designs of these craft and yet they are still extremely vulnerable to Na’vi arrows.
It is a bit weird they've not learned on this, yeah although given we know the Navi will go for tyres on some vehicles I could see them being smart enough to target cameras if they got rid of the windows all together (especially given they have help on that from friendly humans). As for arrows, admittedly they don't move anywhere near as fast as bullets but they are pretty massive (the arrows are apparently about 7ft long, so probably strike with pretty horrifying power, that's a foot longer than a ballista bolt and probably weight in kilos rather than grams like bullets would be) so probably do strike with pretty horrifying power, at close range, I could see them punching through at least some of the materials used to build them (hell they should probably be able to punch through the carbon fiber shells a lot of the machines are built from). Plus we do see they don't always punch through at long range so they are at least somewhat resistant to them.
Navi arrows fired from bows almost as tall as Navi themselves, and only from the correct angle (which Jake showed the Navi).
Also, the craft work perfectly well for hunting whales.
@EGRJ Sigh, and? An Mi-26 cockpit (a 200+ year old design in the Avatar verse) can shrug off 25mm AP rounds, those bows were calculated to be ruffly equivalent to a .50 BMG. They ain't doing shit. And even if they did hit harder than a 25mm, they are made of wood, it would bloody damn well shatter on impact and do nothing. As for "it's for hunting whales", so? That's not what it uses half of its weapons for. Those are for fighting the pissed off natives that can *shoot arrows through their predecessors' cockpit windows* .
@@hanzzel6086 You're comparing puny wooden darts to navi arrows which are made from much thicker materials, and are about the size of a human.
@coryfice1881 I'm talking physics. The 25mm is made of steel. And while it might be lighter, it is going an order of magnitude quicker than those arrows. And F=MA trumps all. And I don't care how strong the arrow is, there is no way they are surviving being near instantly decelerated on impact if they have similar to or greater energy than a fucking 25mm! I don't buy them surviving that if they are .50 equivalent either!
Ive been waiting for so long for this video to give an explantion!!!
Always a good video when it's about the RDA vehicles
I love how the vehicles are all so amazing from the spec reading but the footage is of all of them being absolutely wrecked because of a pretentious plot.
The HFY editions of the Avatar movies are great.
Whalers…on the moon of Pandora?
yeah so dumb cleaytr based on the avatar tech they have the level of cloning and genetic engineering tech needed to make the whale juice without going whaling
I like the Crab Mechs.
But as nice as they are (and the toys are nice too) I really don't feel invested enough to collect them, and that is coming from someone who owns Starship Troopers toys and has never seen Starship Troopers.
Love the scale of the toys though, I'd squee like a 6 Year old for Gi Joe Vehicles in that scale.
Feldreß from 86 may be to your liking.
So from previous encounters they learned that the Na'vi attack aircrafts from above - wouldn't it make sense to equip improved design with top mounted turrets? Should be possible with the rotors being on the side of the fuselage
Their submersibles reminds me of sub designs from subnautica.
These machines are inline with the technical competence of humanity and the RDA. It's a civilization that can travel from Earth to a different star system so we'd expect them to have top notch tech and procedures, which they do. I hope we come this far along technologically in the future in real life.
I'm always a little disappointed that these high tech interstellar humans are just the bad guys in these movies. I feel humans peacefully coming to Pandora in some way (maybe even fighting the company) would be far more interesting.
I think that’s going to happen in the next couple movies. It’s not like the Navi have a chance against the RDA, the only way they can survive is for humans to decide that what they’re participating in is wrong and help them, like jake did. We see a little bit of that with the whale scientist who’s basically suicidally depressed and cheers on his own death
Has to happen at some point as the pandora area in Animal kingdom at Disney world takes place I think decades later with ACE(Alpha Centauri Expeditions) if it is canon
Or at least having the humans be a colony fleet that can't return home. That would give us a realistic struggle without turning one side into cartoon villains from Captain Planet!
Never understood how arrows went straight through the cockpits
The bow and arrows the Na'vi are using are more similar in size and arrow length to Roman siege ballista's than any actual man portable bow used in real life.
In the first movie they didnt at first but during the 3rd act Na'vi started to use their downward momentum while dive-bombing to make their shots more effective
They didn't. Not at first. Until Jake showed the Na'vi how to use a) the correct angle, and b) the added speed of the dive. Notice how the Navi shooting through cockpits in this video is Jake's wife.
Also, remember, the arrows are the size of spears, fired from bows made of alien materials (canonically 2.9m and 3.7kg/9'6" and 8 lbs), by nine-foot aliens. Google says the average bow is usually about 2 kg/5lb.
The Navi bows are closer to the Japanese Yumi, which are still only 2m long or so.
Also, even if reinforced glass was available, it probably wasn't included in, y'know, sea vehicles mainly intended to hunt animals, and it would probably be concentrated on the lower parts of the cockpits.
Because even a crude pointy rock can gain a lot of speed (and, thus, kinetic energy) when shoot from above. In the first movie they show how shooting arrows from bellow barely scratches a canopy... but can go through it when the archer shoots them from high above (or while diving in their flying mounts).
@@nguyenten6877 so, you're claiming that roman scorpion somehow has higher penetration power then 23+mm autocannons(that's what Mi-24 is rated against)? For your sake, 14,5x114 bullets were penetrating side armor of Panther tank during WWII. That's 40mm of rolled homogeneous steel, surface hardened. Show me a ballista that'll do that, please?😅
I really wish these movies would be a lil more nuanced with their humans. I mean this movie is literally the Navi brutalizing harbor workers and it still treats it all like it’s the army from the first movie even when they show that a lot these dudes are literally just waggies
so? screw them harbor workers, I say... what? you think any of that nifty age-stopping wonder-goo would ever go to a regular joe like you or me? lol, no dude. all of that is going to the 1% of rich guys who're responsible that we gotta deal with lootboxes in our video games nowadays. screw 'em, I say... and if these guys work on helping those rich pricks become rich immortal pricks so they can continue screwing guys like you and me over for all eternity, well... screw 'em too.
Considering it's a copy of The Word for World is Forest, I think he actually is too kind to the brutalities of colonization in comparison to how Le Guin depicts colonizers.
What is exotic is good and what is familiar is evil the quintessential hippy fantasy.
@@zanderwohl I guess I didn’t think about it from the colonizer perspective and that’s really fair not really saying the Navi are out of their right to that stuff. I guess my main issue is that this movie really tried emphasize that this time around the humans arn’t just a military and it kinda just felt a lil weird
@@heraadrian7764
Make way for the cult of Cthulu
Cthulu Fhtagn
etc.
If this fleet wasn't meant for full-fledged combat, think about the vehicles they'll be packing in movie 3... _James Cameron, you beautiful bastard_
goddamn the designs of these are so cool
Crabsuits were coolest vehicles in that movie.
James Cameron: "NOOOO Whaling is bad!!!"
RDA: "Wellerman intensifies".
I really appreciate the immense amount of work to create this segment.
The fleet is really well thought-out and fleshed out!
Unlike their purpose.
Until you realize that the ship lacks a CIWS lol
@h1tsc4n40 Yeah, but they couldn't have them, the movie wouldn't work if they did! And while I, for one, would love to see some stupid cat people get turned into a fine blue mist, that's not what most people want. And most modern CIWIS wouldn't work on significant portions of Pandora's surface due to the electromagnet interference from the planets magnetic field (as seen in the first movie).
@@hanzzel6086 Eh the EM interference always felt like handwavium to me. There's ways around that, especially in the far future.
@@h1tsc4n40 Which is why it was the secret reason I gave ; )
I am so excited for this. I basically only watch the avatar movies to see what tech the rda are using.
The problem with Avatar is that im supposed to be rooting for the Na'vi but they made the humans way too badass to say nothing of their compelling narrative
I absolutely loved all these new vehicles. It's something we don't get a lot of recently that isn't over designed or cluttered. Everything feels functional and like it would be used in the real world.
I love yours videos, maybe someday you can make one about the Titans of Titanfall. Thanks you!
People will poopoo the Avatar films but they have some of the coolest worldbuilding and tech.
The worldbuildibg is poor even for hollywood standards...
@@totalCoolerUsername Nope
Nah, the world building is quite filled tbh, going as far as describing many Avatar species and the mechanics inside vehicles. The narrative of the second movie... Ehh, let's just say it could have been better imo.
Humanity First!
I couldn't stop laughing at the movies from that stupid whaling sequence.
Lets gooo Baby I was waiting you to make video on the new amazing veichule from avatar 2
I can't wait to see how much more James Cameron can become more anti-tech in Avatar 3 and 4.
By making more advanced movie/cg tech to make the films.
Someone completely missed the point...he's not anti tech...he's anti American :) not any better, but still not the same
Okay but no really, jokes aside the story is supposed to be antiINDUSTRIALIST cause too much industry will destroy a civilization, but it does really feel very "yeah America can go eat a bag of dicks and if you live there you're EvIl!!!" :/
I can't wait to see what new extremely valuable resource he will invent.
He's basically justifying human colonization by having room-temperature superconductors and a literal immortality serum on the same fucking moon.
He might as well add a mineral capable of cold fusion or an animal that can travel over the speed of light to the bag. Make Pandora even more valuable to humans.
@@xenno8496American? How did you pull that from this? He dislikes colonial empires in general, though.
With all of these advancements you would think that they would have better protection against blue aliens with bows and arrows(especially the canopy area on their flying crafts)
Also James Cameron doesn't seem to understand stakes in a story for he went from a material that is very valuable and never goes into detail why it is valuable other then to make money for it was so unimportant that he gave it a generic sci-fi name for the alien material and then Cameron goes even higher by having a fluid that can basically grant you longevity and I was thinking WHY DIDN'T HE MAKE THIS FLUID THE MAIN REASON TO COME TO THIS MOON IN THE FIRST PLACE DUE TO IT MAKING SOMEONE LIVE FOR A LONG TIME!!!!!!!!?(that is a rhetoric question by the way)
what's the point in making a canopy arrow proof? Pandora isn't the only place these vehicles are being used and an arrow proof canopy, which adds to weight and might reduce visibility for the pilot, is going to be useless anywhere outside of Pandora where these vehicles will be fired upon with guns and missiles. besides, those arrows are the size of a tree and have the impact power of a speeding car when fired. kinda tough to armor against that 'cause the laws of physics are gonna ensure that they still deal a lot of damage regardless.
@@Timberwolftrass Geez so that maybe some of them might actually win or not look so weak when they are fighting basically primitives. Also you just proved that the design is contradicting due to the canopy should be arrow proof already and yet their arrows keep breaking through the supposed bullet proof glass and killing the pilots.
@@JustTooDamnHonest i mean, these arrows are the size of small trees or ballista bolts and they aren't slow after being fired, so they'll build up a lot of kinetic energy so they'll do a lot of damage no matter what...
that being said, i don't think you quite understand my earlier comment:
I'm sure there's a way to make these canopies arrow proof, or at least more resistent and specialize them for use on Pandora... but doing that sort of thing requires money and whomever supplied these guys with these vehicles was quite clearly not willing to fork over all that extra cash to make their vehicles a bit more armored.
in the end, its all about the money... which is honestly very human, especially if you look at real life where a lot of things could be improved with more specialized equipment but the higher ups aren't willing to pay so we just have to suck it up and deal with it.
@@Timberwolftrassyou dont even need a canopy, just external cameras and sensors to give you full visibility, and use thrusters and turbines, not rotational blades, lazy scifi is awful
@@royalecrafts6252 all true. I dunno, i guess these vehicles are cheaper to produce or something? I dunno, the whole conflict of the movie could have been avoided if the humans just cloned the damn whales just like they clone the Avatars so everything is kinda stupid and dumb in one way or another lol
At this point it kind of feels like Pandora is custom designing its ecosystem for maximum exploitation value 😂 First it was just a source of an ultra rare mineral, but now it has whales who's brain juice cures aging? What's next? Is the wood from the trees stronger than steel and lighter too? The ice from the poles able to heal any wound? The atmospheric gasses make spaceship thrusters 200% more efficient?
I know the whole point of the movies is "Humanity is bad and you should feel bad for existing because you personally are killing pure mother earth with extreme malice" but my arms are starting to get tired from trying to support my suspension of disbelief, my brain gave up half way through the first movie 😆
Are you braindead? The point of the movie is that settler colonialism is bad regardless of who's doing it and harming people to turn a profit is reprehensible. The hippy stuff is just in there to make it a sort of family movie and the plot is flat and nuance-free because the average cinema viewer will miss the point otherwise (though you still somehow managed to anyway).
Considering thier arrows don't shatter when impacting what should be bullet proof glass, I could buy that wood one.
avatar has some of the best vehicle design
Another excellent discussion.
Considering the crappy Littoral patrol ships of the current USN, can we hire these guys for the next generation of USN coastal and sea control vessels?
You can always ask General Dynamics for that. In-lore, they built the S-76 Sea Dragon.
This franchise is telling me they can grow a Na'vi body without a consciousness, they can transfer a humans consciousness into that body , reverse the process without issue and the motivation for the first film was for Jake to be able to walk, curing a crippled mans paralysed body, they can do all this bioengineering but a whales brain is too hard?
Kinda surprised you haven't done a Top 10 for Sci-fi Aquatic Vehicles at this point.
All human warriors that participate the expansion on Pandora in the Name of Mother Earth are Heroes to be remembered !
They are the True Heroes of this franchise !
I felt that the film was way too harsh on Dr. Ian Garvin the marine biologist guy.
They could have him reform just like Trudy Chacon in the first movie when she broke formation and did not fire her Samson's weapons upon witnessing Col. Miles Quaritch destroy the hometree with an aerial armada.
He did not agree with Captain Mick Scorsby's tulkun hunting or Col. Miles Quaritch's mission to destroy the Ta'unui Clan's village after interrogating their unnamed Olo'eyktan and Tsahik in regards to Jake Sully's wherabouts. According to the Avatar: The Way of Water Visual Dictionary, he could have interacted and met with Tonowari, the Olo'eyktan of the Metkayina, before via setting anchor to his mobile laboratory right next to the village.
It made more sense for Mick Scorsby to meet his fate during the film's final battle when he got his arm sliced off by a steel cable, but he is confirmed to return in Avatar 3.
Absolutely fascinating, thank you.
Nice work