Totteridge (and Whetstone?)
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- I like this station. Really, that’s all I wanted to say.
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I have looked at old LNER and Underground maps online and the station was "Totteridge and Whetstone" until 1939, when it was changed to just "Totteridge". "Totteridge" appears to be the name used in Northern Heights project maps, so I suspect the rename was linked to that scheme. It remained "Totteridge" on maps until 1954, when it reverted to "Totteridge and Whetstone". Okay I spent a pointless 30 minutes or so on this detail, but at least I have given a bit more information.
not quite....
Actually (as another UA-camr likes to say), there was a good reason that the name Totteridge was changed back, you see, they were briefly considering another station named Totteridge or Totteridge-mill just beyond Amersham, and, since they were changing the signs on the station anyway, it was thought prudent to Future-proof the signage for the case if such a station would come to pass.
it never did, though I believe there was a flag-stop style station there for Chiltern Railway trains... the area however never did get developed in the way it was hoped, so, the stop was seen as unviable, even if it did have a nice little
cul-de- sac for trains to wait without blocking the main line... (thanks to the old watering tower that had been there in the steam age) today, I do not believe the area can be accessed at all... at least legally without crossing through the territory of one of the nearby industries..
@@stanislavkostarnov2157 Thanks for the extra information.. that completes the story.
Thanks for this. I was about to do something similar.
For anyone who wanted to know.....
A whetstone is a stone used to sharpen knives and other tools by grinding them against an abrasive surface. The term "whet" means to sharpen. Whetstones are also known as sharpening stones or water stones
Why an outer London village is named after one, I have no idea, but I bet someone does!
Probably it's West-Town contracted over time, though there is a stone in the area by the side of the road known as the Whetstone, and that's the fond local interpretation.
Do you have to Wet the Whestone first before Whetting the knife?
Supposedly used for sharpening swords before the Battle of Barnet
@@GojiMet86 Sometimes, although the fluid used is usually oil rather than water.
@@ZGryphon I believe there are specific oilstones. I have a couple of random ones from an auto jumble that work nicely with olive oil.
“…if I go down the Angel I’ll end up all Totteridge and Whetstone! There’ll be Hammersmith to pay when I get home!” - The Two Ronnies
"Aay you forgot your Barbican!. ...silly Arsenal."
😂 ua-cam.com/video/aOyeOIIEkMI/v-deo.htmlsi=GtpMHO9-IvDGFFnC
@@jimtaylor294 "It was Ilsington down about 6 o'clock this mornin', wannit?"
"Absolutely pourin' with Rayners Lane!"
"Still, good for the Covent Garden, innit? Aye, Turnham Green that will!"
That whole sketch is genius!
State of the Art Deco - great description! And interesting to hear their progression from fossil fuel to electric over a century ago
However, last year, 33% of the UK's electricity still came from fossil fuels...
@@alanclarke4646Yup, from coal to clean in a century & counting - tho hopefully not much longer
@@alanclarke4646 I was a bit shocked by the train from Bath to York a couple years ago was powered by diesel engines under the cars. I mean carriages. (I paid more for a slower train that didn't require a Tube connection in London.) Find the money and electrify everything, UK. Meanwhile I'm sure that India is running on all 1930s British tech. It's an emergecncy situation, world.
@@emjayay You may also be shocked to know that India has both a higher proportion and a much high quantity of electrified railway than the UK, much of Europe and even Japan. It's not far off China for the amount of track and electrification. They've done a LOT to modernise in recent years.
@@mdhazeldine which makes the UK's electrification situation even more dire! To the point where some train operators are considering hydrogen, and some lines are using battery trains, simply to avoid having to run the power lines any further. When it would've been much cheaper overall if BR had simply been allowed to finish electrification in the 70s and 80s.
"You are the Whetstone to my Totteridge"
Steady, Jago... Steady now...
Alright. "You are the Totteridge to my Whetstone". Better?
@@john1703 more complimentary! 😉
@@mbrady2329 The Edgeware to the High Barnet . It slips off the tounge , but i am a railroad so ..... what do know .
It always amazes me how "country" parts of North London feel, Totteridge being one. Nice to have a wander round the wetlands every so often and visit The Orange Tree pub.
The Orange Tree. Happy memories
London is pretty green for such a massive city. It's technically classed as a forest given how many trees and foliage it has.
@@TalesOfWar True true! Few cities as green as ours, though Totteridge feels especially "town and country" much like nearby Southgate and Mill Hill.
@RobinPalmerTV YOU SHOULD SEE HOW GREEN BIRMINGHAM IS.🌳🌳
Where the great Arsène walked his dog 😊
Nothing makes Friday better than watching the newest Jago Video. Happy Friday everyone! 🎉🎉
TGIJVF!
Another enjoyable video. I looked up newspapers on Find My Past and the Whetstone name doesn't appear until 1878, the station is named Totteridge and Whetstone on the 1893 OS map. An article from the North Londoner of 16 March 1872 said the timetable had been published with the station names (but no train times!). The company had rejected a campaign by a local landowner to use names like "Belgravia" for the stations, but had named one after the Torrington Arms pub (now Woodside Park). High Barnet it said is to distinguish it from the other station like Crystal Palace High Level.
This station it named just Totteridge in the article.
Although always shown as "Totteridge & Whetstone on the Underground maps, the platform signs simply read "Totteridge " for a number of years in the 80's and 90's.
I've watched these quaint underground railway videos since Jago had about 224 subscribers. Now he has 224K of them. He must be doing something right.
Not sure why I watch them. Maybe because it's partly like being read a story. I think it's mostly because it reminds me of when I was a little Londoner during the late 1970s before moving to Milton Keynes and then NZ. Not much rail here. We are just about to get our first deep level tube line in Auckland though. Most folks think it's a waste of money. Most folks are not very bright perhaps, because while they moan about the cost, they also moan about being stuck in traffic. Moaning peaks in the days following an All Blacks loss. I quite enjoy those. :P
Do you recall Mayor Robbie ( Sir Dovemyer Robinson) from the 70s? They said he was mad for wanting light rail in Auckland and more rail across NZ
The barracks are pronounced Inglys. T&W car park used to have a sign saying 'park with radiator towards the fence'. So minis sideways, most others front first and VWs not at all. This was in the 60s so it probably has gone.
and 5 minutes from the High Road but 7 minutes to! Quite a hike.
Not forgetting Hillman Imps.
@@caw25sha and rear engined Renaults 🤣 This could get wonderfully silly.
@@caw25shaWho could forget Imps. Specially if you'd worked on one..
Inglis Barracks was demolished and a housing estate built plus a school.
This was my former station, it's really convenient as it is just a 5 minute walk down from Whetstone High Road
This was the first underground station I stepped into. My nana used to take me into London from here, from around 1964.
We walked from Greenway, just about 10 minutes. Fond memories of her and the numerous trips from Totteridge and Whetstone. Nigel.
2:47What a magnificent photo that is. Razor sharp, even though the loco's clearly working hard, and look how clean it is for a humdrum goods loco
The Mill Hill East branch continued to have goods traffic (almost entirely house coal) until the arrival of the M1 in the early 1960s caused its closure beyond Mill Hill East (Junction 2 used part of the trackbed for the southern end of the M1, until the junction was moved 900m south on completion of the section to Junction 1). That section (then still operated by the LNER) had closed for passengers in September 1939.
It is a shame how Marples & Co were allowed to sever a railway for their nefarious schemes. Mill Hill East to Edgware would be a very useful line indeed, allowing Edgware passengers to travel via Finchley as well as via Hendon.
There was a huge (and smelly) gas works next to Mill Hill East station - I wonder if the coal was destined for the gas works to be turned into Town Gas?
@@NicholasNA There was indeed - unforgettable! I am sure the gas works created traffic of coal in and coke and tar out. I remember seeing an open wagon sitting precariously above the road on the bridge by the station - I suspect awaiting collection after delivering coal to Inglis Barracks.
Aside from all the history and lore, your videos make me want to visit all these places....
The London Transport Museum's website lets you search its collection (which does is a useful resource for research, although the preview images are very low res and they want money for hi res images), and they do have various pictures of the station in the 1950s signed as just Totteridge (1930s LNER era ones don't seem to have visible signs), so I think London Transport at least favoured the shorter name when they first started serving it. They also however have a poster from 1940 advertising the new electric services, which does give "and Whetstone" as a subtitle, so even back then the longer name was sometimes used.
I don't recall the details but part of the arrangements between the LNER and the LPTB meant that some of the bright shiny new 1938 tube stock were owned by the LNER and carried owners plates proclaiming the fact, on the sole bar where they couldn't be easily seen.
My source is "Tube Trains Under London" by J Graeme Bruce, 1977.
.
The stations on the branch continued to carry LNER logos alongside Underground ones in the 1940s as well (mostly notable at East Finchley which still has eye shapes for the logo in some windows), and the "blue bar" station name signs at the entrance gave the name as L·N·E·R TOTTERIDGE STN (etc)[1], even if they were otherwise using London Transport's house style for signage. Advertising also had LNER logos alongside the LT bullseye.
The advertising for the Central line extensions in the late '40s also had GWR / LNER logos as appropriate before 1948, although I'm not sure if they were mentioned on signage.
[1] In some 1950s photos you can see where the LNER was painted over at Totteridge.
I was there yesterday. There's a good chippy next door to get a portion of chips whilst you wait for an empty train to roll up ☺️
The name always makes me think of an old biddy in too-high heels, out on a rainy street - an accident waiting to happen, in fact.
I always think of Rowland Emmet's Far Tottering and Oystercreek Railway. The inspiration for the fantastic journey in Battersea Park Pleasure Gardens during and after the 1951 Festival of Britain.
1:10 Aah... and all is well in the world. Where would we be without Jago? Why would a ten minute film about a random tube station be appreciated by so many people?
It’s your Friday Jago video!
I think this station should have been built with two separate entrances. One with a sign that said "Totteridge Station" and the other with a sign that said "Whetstone Station". 🤪
With a Whetstone bridge connecting them.
Tottering on a wet stone bridge doesn’t sound very safe :~P
State of the art deco....bravo sir, bravo!👏
The line to Mill Hill East was finished in the war because Inglis Barracks housed the biggest Royal Engineers workshop in London. Yeah and the coal yard on ghe right hand side just before the station when coming from Finchley
Oh hey! - totteridge resident here, ive always wanted a video on my local station as a tube fanatic, so i really appreciate it!
7:56 According to Heritage Gateway:
Railway station on the GNR's Barnet Branch Railway, opened as Totteridge on 1st April 1872. It was renamed Totteridge and Whetstone on 1st April 1874.
I was thinking that what we need is a Tube companies family tree. But by the sounds of it it might be very complex, even for JH.
I was interested to hear you pronounce Ingles Barracks at about 7:15 Jago. I worked there as a civilian staff member for over 4 years from 2000 & we always called it Inglis Barracks.
Oh & I live in High Barnet so this video of great local interest - cheers 👍
'You are the Whetstone to my Totteridge' Ker-Ching. Some might say it was an easy one, but a win is a win.
Sounds like a station where the arrival of a Rowland Emmett locomotive would cause little surprise.
I just realised in British Railway, a British-inspired game on Roblox, has a station called Whetstone. Most stations name are from British stations though so no surprise :)
There is a town region in San Andreas called Whetstone.
In its index the April 1910 edition of Bradshaw's Railway Guide shows your subject station as "Totteridge". In the timetable section it is also shown as "Totteridge" but with a footnote indicating "for Whetstone". The July 1922 Bradshaw's has the same except there is no footnote referring to Whetstone. However both these publications indicate that Oakleigh Park (on the Hitchin line) is the "the station for Whetstone (1¼ miles)". In the July 1938 Bradshaw's the station name was "Totteridge and Whetstone" and Oakleigh Park was "the station for East Barnet and Whetstone (1¼ miles)".
Mr.Hazzard's calm, measured and clear narration is always a perfect start to any weekend. Odd to think Highgate Station could have been as 'interesting' as that at Camden Town.
The name always reminds me of a day out in Rye a long time ago, for which I was all dressed up and it rained incessantly - Rye has a lot of very old and uneven cobblestones, and I found myself struggling to walk on the slippery wet stones in my four inch stilettos!
Marion
A pity it was not abbreviated to WhetTotti.
I hope we get a definitive answer on the name issue, so that (at least) the Wikipedia article can be corrected. At the moment, it seems that the vast majority of on-line resources just copy Wikipedia, so the (almost certainly invalid) "Whetstone & Totteridge" name is being reinforced. Who controls the past controls the present, and that.
Dunno why, I love the roundels with spikes. Maybe it gives it some "tomorrowland" quality in which it could happen, has happened, or is happening, and whether past/present/future, always looks cool.
I commuted to school from this station in the 1970s - and have very un-fond memories. Not for nothing was the Northern Line known as the Misery Line!
Strictly, the station is in Whetstone. The boundary between Totteridge and Whetstone runs along Dollis Brook at the bottom of the hill - which was the boundary between Hertfordshire and Middlesex until London government reorganisation in 1965. (My father couldn’t renew the tax disk for his car at the local sub-post office because it was on the other side of Dollis Brook and in the “wrong” county). So perhaps the station ought to have been called Whetstone? Calling the station “Totteridge Lane Station” makes sense as the road from Whetstone to Mill Hill (on which the station is located) used to be called Totteridge Lane - and I can see how that got abbreviated to just “Totteridge”.
As regards the car park - I can remember when it was a depot for Charringtons coal - and I think that freight trains delivered coal to the depot into the 1960s.
There used to be a stationmaster’s house on the other side of the station until the late 60s/early 70s, when it was demolished and replaced by social housing. To the left of the station entrance were two small shops - a small sweet shop/tobacconist and an estate agent. The nearest public telephone was a short walk down the hill (surprisingly no public phone at the station).
The service from/to the station was irregular - trains were often cancelled. Those benches might have been useful on a sunny day - but were useless in the rain.
My only positive memory of the station was that onee of the station staff was a keen gardener, and there used to be a small garden at the end of the platform that used to regularly win prizes. Is it still there?
Well this has “wheted” my appetite for more stations on the northern line!
I used to work there!!!
I contest the idea of "half way between". From the station it's a short, breathy walk 250 yards up an admittedly steep hill to get to the main Whetstone high street, the A1000. To get to Totteridge is a long drive along a surprisingly countrified for north London lane, before you get to an identifiable war memorial, which you can say is the heart of the village so named.
The boundary between Totteridge and Whetstone is the Dollis Brook, which runs very close to the station; it was also the boundary between Hertfordshire and Middlesex until 1965.
The concept of tween stations can also be found in Germany, but we use a hifen instead of an ampersand.
@@mbrady2329 Is the station on the Herts side or Middlesex?
@@thomasburke2683 the Middlesex (i.e. Whetstone) side. The irony is that Totteridge and Whetstone share a postcode!
@@Wildcard71 my partner's local station back in Germany was like this.
Great Northern should've sharpened up their act over Whetstone. (Sorry.)
Well done
Well , they didn’t have a great beginning, but they did have a Happy Ending!
Cheers From California 😎
Hello Jago! This is my local station I live around here if you like French food there is a French market down the road towards high Barnet!
'You are my Whetstone to my Totteridge'.
To put it bluntly.
Very good 👍
Used this station many times when working at the local community centre in Whetstone
GREAT VIDEO JH
Fantastic video sir, looking forward to the next one! Oh I've an idea...the becontree estate railway?
Seats were provided so the commuters had somewhere to sit while they waited for a poor errastic service? Fobbed off?
Sounds positively commuter-centric when compared with the current shower.
Excellent video. I just wish they never closed the Muswell Hill link Branch line. As someone that has lived in Muswell Hill since the early 60s this link would be a god send even if it was made a light rail like the docklands. It would make money there is No alternative now and traffic buses are packed to Finsbury park at all times of day Most stupid decision ever not to reopen this branch.
I have no idea about any of that but I suspect you are right.
Had the proposed line to Alexandra Palace been completed, this would have given Crouch End (where I lived for my first 5 years) its own underground station. (I know, it was partially built and parts can be walked.) As it is, Crouch End remains something of a village with just some bus services and little use as a through route.
"State of the art deco" - very good, Jago
Getting to Whetstone must be a bit of a grind, but by working through the grades, arrival can be polished and sharply on time. You see what I did there? Sorry, it'll buff out.
I prefer the far Tottering and oyster creek railway line instead of the fast Totteridge and Oyster card railway.
bang on time.
It never ceases to amaze me how, comparatively recently (in the last 125-150 years), places like Totteridge that are now in the metropolitan sprawl were still little more than villages despite their proximity to central London. This doesn't just apply to London, of course.
All about Transport to Central London. Or not.
I used to live in Southfields which before the coming of the LSWR/ District Line was largely watercress fields. Go around any city and guess the age of the houses to estimate how recently it was open country.
8:14 Ah, yes, the “British Demand”
Your videos are the Marmite to my hot buttered crumpet
Young Lord Jago whetting his wit on station names.......
Gosh you’ve really got it in for the poor old Great Northern!
Blame the government for blocking its 1909 merger with the Greats Eastern and Central, one of the reasons for which was to facilitate raising funds for electrification.
There are two canopies on the platform, one meant for Totteridge and one for Whetstone passengers maybe!?? 🧐
A very informative and interesting video
“Next stop - Parsley Sidings”
State of the Art Deco. ++good.
No mention of the dreaded American con artist, now what was his name ..........
8:07... maybe "& Whetstone" was temporarily dropped as a wartime economy?? #sillyguess
6.45 Thank you for the state of the art Art Deco dekko.
Now there's something I didn't know yesterday. Oakwood was originally called Enfield West [6:33]
I went to school in Woodside Park part of Finchley but the trouble was living in North Cricklewood going by tube would involve going to Camden Town first . So I struggled getting there on the bus but I have been to Barnet on the Northern Line a few times . . We used to do sports near Totteridge so I know the area . The Northern line run behind our school .
FCGS, My grandfather was one of the founders of the school, his name is ob the board in the White House.
@@antonygraham3001 ok yes I went there for 7 years the journey was difficult but my mum wanted us to go to Catholic school 🏫 . It was a strange mixture of buildings like the White House and a new block too .
High Barnet, sounds hair raising Jago. 🤣
Marje Simpson's local station.
Very good Jago 🙂🚂🚂🚂
The architecture reminds me of some other GN branch line stations, like Palmers Green and Winchmore Hill.
That side of the Northern Line is full of stops with confusing names. West Finchley is to the East of Finchley Central, Highgate isn't exactly in what most people would call Highgate, T+W being in neither. At least they changed Highgate (Archway) to Highgate. Though Kentish town still isn't in Kent.
You are the Park to my Northolt, Jago.
Happy Friday everyone!
Thanks
I always refer to it as Tott & Whet
like highbury & islington = hi&i
good morning Jago
Interestingly i was thinking why their hasn't been much development on ir since it began, i put it down the awkward position it has on the hill😅
"There's moron railways on London..." 🤣
That's why I rarely use railways in London. 😷
Ahh my local!
Another interesting station history. Shame that the present day street-level station building and entrance look rather badly altered and run down.
TFL Torreridge-ing along (did Jago crack that one? The jokes come as thick and fast as smoke from locomotive No 248 to High Barnet - that I might have missed that gem.)
The tram and Geographer's maps of 1947 call it "Totteridge", whereas in 1937 it was "Totteridge and Whetstone".
Going by a map of the area, the station is closer to Whetstone so I am surprised that it was once called just Totteridge
I wonder if they ever considered calling the station *Totterstone* or *Whetbridge* 🤔😆
Notice weeds on edge of platform. Dead slovenly, total lack of maintenance.
Where is the underground the highest overground? You showed the viaduct in this video!
Jago, do you have to get permission from the TOCs or TfL before filming? Asking for a very small UA-camr..
There are some English place names that will always sound invented, to non-Brits. Is Wains Cotting not a town? Totteridge falls into that category.
Passengers totter(idge)ing around searching for a whetstone to sharpen up their balance.
How was ol Charlie Yirkheis involved?
well.
I *do* know different, but it doesn't have anything to do with
Totteridge (and Whetstone)...just that I know...different stuff.
Totteridge sounds more up market.
8:32 Wikipedia: citation needed!
But where can whet my knives and chisels?
2:47 To my American eyes the GNR 521/536 Class locos are mostly the exact opposite of good looking. And which Class is the loco in this photo? According to Wikipedia the water capacity was 3,500 imp gal (16,000 L; 4,200 US gal). Where was the water stored? Does someone have a link on how the lubrication points of inside cylinder locos were accessed? Did these locos spend every night in a maintenance facility with a pit relieving the engineers of filling oilers?
When you say "these seats were introduced at the turn of the century" to which century do you refer?
More to the point, where should one properly place any hyphens or upper case letters in "state of the Art Deco"?