Good job, mate. SELV is much better than 230V if it's a relatively small load and the cable is not too long. In this case, good use of SELV, especially because the lamps are next to the pond. The gardener will not be shocked dead, when he mows them over. Always think about the unthinkable.
Great video David, I remember doing two joints on the top of a fuel tank. The cables were 240 mm 4 cores. We mixed the first bag and poured the joint with success. On the second joint we split the resin bag and scooped it in to the joint with bits of steel armour and all the the cable trimmings by hand. The site electrical engineer put our joints under a 5kV test and it passed. I guess it's still working OK now.
Excellent video really enjoy them when you show what you have to do would love to see how you do a conversion from 230v to 12v garden lights it also helps to see the products that you use all brilliant thanks
Another brilliant video. I've recently returned to doing domestic electrical installations after an absence of some 20+ years. Although back in the day (haha) I was doing more fun, 3 phase stuff with horticultural, agricultural, industrial and commercial installations. I did C&G 236* (something or other number) back in the late 80's and learned most of the practical stuff long before leaving school, from my now late dad, an electrical engineer from 1950 onwards so sometimes a bit emotional. Anyway, I completed BS7671 18th edition, domestic installer and competent persons scheme 'refresher' courses earlier this year. So your videos are a real 'godsend' as theoretical and abstract explanations are no substitute for practical demonstration. So helpful that you flag the relevant Regs too, really helps to reinforce my ailing memory. ;) Thanks again so much
I to always do any garden lighting that enters the ground as 12v where possible. Any damp get on the connections at 240v and the RCD will trip.... guaranteed to take out the freezer when they are on holiday.!
I bodged together 8 old MR16 led bulbs soldered straight to cable and old 12V driver to give me some light up the garden Highly effective, safe and didn't cost a penny 12V is the way to go as long as you keep the wattage low Great video sir
@@VAX1970 wow that's at least 8 amps. You'll probably get a fair bit of volts drop but it doesn't matter. It works. Do you get many aircraft trying to land in your garden? 😂
@@ralphsterz2889 The cable is very thick which improves performance, there is some voltage drop, i use cool white bulbs, so it's barely noticeable. I use a wire wound transformer.
My mate and I laugh at each other whenever we make these joints off because he uses the stripping tool like yours and I stay with the hacksaw method. Never the twain shall meet lol.... The sandpaper is to be used to rough up the pvc of the cable where it enters the joint to give the resin a bonding surface to grip onto. I don`t always do this though. When you spilled the resin I thought "oh no, he`s not going to have enough left to fill the joint", happily you did. Nice instructional video and I hope you don`t get cancer.
This is the first time I've seen a UK 12 volt landscape lighting video. I'd say it's much safer then mains voltage lighting. In the US nearly all landscape lighting is 12 volt LED. The downside to it is the landscape contractors got in on the installing and not exclusively the electrical contractors.
I don't like the constant force spring clips particularly when there is no furrel. I use appropriately sized jubbly clips with the armour running straight through and jointed directly to the amour. I find this stiffens up the cable to hold them in line for the carcase and provides a more reliable mechanical connection. I couldn't tell if you did or not. Ruffing up the outer sheath as it enters the joint with the sandpaper allows the resin a better chance of providing a a waterproof seal. Also i prefer appropriately sized crimp joints and if not using the choc blocks singularly and staggered to keep the connectors well within the main body of the resin rather than near the edge and often showing through the resin. Like you I think 12v is a much better idea than 230v for outside lighting.
6:00 "I'm not a great fan of crimps" YAY !!! Lots of sparkies seem to love them (JW included) but I'm so pleased you've accepted that they're a flawed technology. (video gets a thumbs up for that) To an engineer, we know that when the crimping tool is released, the natural springiness of the crimp metal will release some grip on the wire - and this is unavoidable - unless the method of crimping is by use of screws in a giant 'chocolate block' which you leave in place. An alternative is to crimp and then solder. Crimping also has no conductor-cleaning function like a screw has as it's being gouged into the conductor. Quite possibly why sparkies need torque screwdrivers and engineers do not.
I know what you’re saying about the springiness of the metal, but the crimp is designed to take it into the ‘plastic’ stage in the stress strain curve, and at this stage it won’t try and return to it’s original shape, which is perfect for the job
Joining two different sets of colours like that, do you get a kick out of knowing that at some point in the future someone's going to be looking for that joint having apparently found a cable with different colours at each end :)
Agree that very low voltage is necessary in such situations -- especially around water -- but the cable going straight into the turf is a terrible idea. That is bound to be cut by mowing/strimming.
Brilliant video David! Doing quite a lot of SWA on site coming into distribution panels at the minute and have purchased and used the CK armour slice, definitely a good purchase, but I saw the tool you used to strip the outer sheath of the 3 core flex, what do you call that tool and where can I get one!? Another must have!
Regarding the spike light leads and the risk of damage, how about constructing a small wooden box which would sit a few inches proud of the lawn, then sticking the spike light into that and filling with gravel or decorative chippings? I think that could look really nice. Great video and you are totally right that 12v for this kind of application is ideal. Cheers.
liking your SELV fitments. I am Looking at 12v led strip outdoor fed off outdoor supply. Have you a bit more video on how you 240v supply to a IP socket ect and then tap the SELV off? Or do you keep the driver in the warm and run them separately? (Or IP MCB box / fused spur to step down )
No video on that at present Stephen, but in this case the SWA terminated onto an IP enclosure where it split off to feed the socket and to a second IP enclosure adjacent to it that housed the driver. An inline fuse was also installed in this second enclosure where the mains came in and before it went into the driver. The driver in use is a MeanWell product rated at IP67 so it didn't need to be enclosed, but I hid it away for aesthetics and to keep the wiring nice and dry.
@@stephencoulthard1718 Only what Wiska produce! They're not big enough for much, but it may be worth asking at your local wholesaler (CEF/Eddies et. al.), they sometimes have different or specialist stuff lurking on a shelf!
My understanding is that SWA cable surrounds the live conductors with an earthed metallic covering, thus allowing it to be buried and then run without upstream RCD. If the cable is penetrated by a gardening fork, it'll be in good contact with the earthed armour before touching the horrible brown wire. This feature doesn't seem to be provided by the nice junction enclosure.
@@s30scott I think he means if someone stuck a spade into that junction it could go straight in and touch live without first touching the earthed armors like it would if you stuck a spade into a length of SWA.
The braid maintains earth continuity yes, but it doesn't offer protection from shock if the enclosure is penetrated. The cable would have to have an RCD upstream which is ok for a final circuit, but not suitable if you want to use the SWA as a distribution cable with RCDs downstream. One thing I'm wondering is that if the buried cable is RCD-protected, it doesn't need steel armour. I bought a roll of YY cable recently and the spec said it was suitable for direct burial. I need to find out what that's all about.
If you're worried about a garden folk going through the resin joint, bed the joint on some sand, pile some more on top, lay a concrete slab, more sand, pack it all down, lay some turf on top.
Circuit for garden lamps could just as well be PELV (use of RCD would highlight a fault condition). Using SELV in the right conditions, ie stood in water (pond) and if a fault had occurred, this could lead to a shock or at least an unwanted tingling. Wet hands give the conductive path a greater area to connect too.
I considered a bit of rigid PVC conduit, but I think the idea is to remove circles of turf from around the lights once their positions have been finalised.
Hi David I’m Of the same opinion why put 230 kit in and mess about with wiska boxes and maybe swa which although good kit look ugly next to a little spike light in a small garden when you can work with flex and ELV kit. I’d like to know if the Amazon stuff in the links was decent quality and has had no problems ? Don’t know why it’s so difficult to buy 12V stuff it all seems geared to the 230V gear which has inherent installation issues.
"SELV is in the dark ages!" Yea, much better to run 415v 3 phase around the garden, just in case Jean Michel-Jarre wants to do a laser rock concert in your garden... 🤣🤣
Have you ever come across garden lighting cables which have been chewed by foxes, I've had that recently with some 12 volt ones & some solar rope lights.
Yes, I had a job a year or two ago where some 12v LED marker lights inset into brick edging around the driveway had been dug up and thoroughly gnawed at. They'd have been alright if the landscaper had run the wiring under the bricks, but it ran in the soil behind them.
It says it on the Amazon product page, but not on the packaging. That's probably just to stop some idiot using it in an unprotected enclosure outdoors and is likely given as a point of sale warning on most electronic components to protect Amazon from returns. From my experience, I can say I've put a lot of these in over the past couple of years without issue. It is true that exterior conditions will screw over any electrical or electronic equipment given enough time, but that's not what I'm seeing with these. Of course, you're under no obligation to follow my recommendations.
The only way I do garden lights is 350ma light fittings wired in series or 12v.. Nice bit of metal flexi conduit from the Ip joint to the back of the fitting should keep that flex safe from lawn mower and Foxes.. foxes love eating flex..!
Oh mate, I'm usually with you (you're clearly a VERY talented guy!) - and I was on this vid until you said that GU10 and MR were equivalent unless you downsized the voltage. I use GU10 EVERYWHERE cos in this world of smart lighting, I have lamps that are grouped together and controlled by Alexa and Google. I REALLY feel your pain about the "final 12 inches" as I call it - the bit of exposed cable to the IP67 lamp fitting - but as long as it's RCD/RCBO protected.... I think these days customers are more demanding. MR16 doesn't cut it for technology. Lamps like Lohas have Wifi built in, and can be controllable individually or in a group. I implore you to future-proof your technology solutions, not just your electrical ones. DM me anyday if you want to discuss, I'm passionate about smart-tech!
When it comes to garden lighting, then unless the client has specified they want something clever, I'll take the safety of ELV over possible future expansion every time. For something like this, basic on/off control can still be put in at source if they want to voice activate it. I just don't like relying on an RCD as the sole means of protection should that flex get nicked and the line cores become exposed; it goes against Regulation 415.1.2. Besides that, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to smart tech: as far as I'm concerned, it's not my job. I deal with fixed wiring and faultfinding only. If the client wants smart stuff, they can buy it and I will install it, but there my support ends, they can figure out for themselves why it's not talking to their iPad or whatever! I don't want my warranty support to become bogged down with IT support just because Google or Apple have moved the goalposts and stopped supporting a product or have issued an update which borks it in some way. Of course, there are those out there, perhaps such as yourself, who can make a good business out of smart tech solutions, and I wish you all the best with it, but it's not for me and my business.
As someone in the IT industry, I also think smart lights are a terrible idea. If you want to control things through Alexa or whatever, wire them back to a single controller and securely interface with it there, don't have little WiFi/RF clients in every single light fitting. Not only do they sit there chewing up power even when the light is off, but then your neighbour upgrades his router and suddenly your lights don't work anymore because he's picked the same RF channel as you. Then of course most tiny embedded devices don't have enough processing power to do WiFi security properly (not that it's great at the best of times) so you may as well wire a switch out in the street so passers by can turn your lights on and off as they please. Granted losing control of your garden lights isn't a big deal, but if you use these for indoor lighting it's just going to be annoying when the kid next door figures out how to turn your lights off while you're in the middle of eating.
I can seriously see house lighting circuits being 12v in the future, theres no need for 240v ac anymore, in fact most incandescent bulbs are now illegal anyway.
Thanks again David, for yet again an excellent video. BTW... Is it fine to be "off color" at times, shows you are human. Lovely to see you including Puss in the video, we have 128 here in the sanctuary that I run!
Thanks Albert. I'm not sure about 128 cats; it sounds like it could either be the most stress-free job in the world with that many cute fluffy things to pet, or the most stressful!
@@dsesuk David.. It's the latter. 100 hr working week, 52 weeks per year, UNPAID! Used to work for IBM UK and retired to Ireland. Am 75 years old next month. Bad bad mistake, but 13000 plus animals saved. Last real Holliday was in 1995 when I took the grandchildren to Disney land in Florida. The 128 number excludes our dogs and wildlife! I HaVe to maintain 24 outside buildings, ALL with hodgepodge of electrical stuff. David.... By trade I am an electronic engineer. Your videos are so dammed useful to me as they give me guidance. BTW, breaking the neutral in the CU here in Ireland is ILLEGAL! NO 18th edition here. David, are u on the peatron system? If so... I will sign up.
@@albertkleyn111 Crikey, I'm sorry to hear of the effort Albert, but saving that many animals must be a sense of achievement?! I'm afraid I'm not on patreon, I film this stuff for my own selfish reasons: to keep my head in the game and promote my business. I'm happy you find it worth tuning in for, especially since it sounds like you have so little time!
Hi so with selv is it just live and neutral into transformer and then live and neutral out. then just continue earth straight through. So all cables are still earthed Do these out door lights also require an earth connection
I totally agree with you and it’s a great idea for external lighting. Do you ever suffer issues with volt drop? Seems to soon tail off when talking 12vdc
Most of my 12v lines aren't too long, this being perhaps the longest I've put in which is why I went for a 2.5mm flex. A shame I couldn't show them working in this video, but they work well.
If you want longer runs of say 30m upwards, you can always run the 12v feed cable as a ring/loop starting at the transformer/driver and returning to it. You then connect your lights anywhere along the ring and you get even current sharing, which helps to reduce voltage drop to almost zero. I used to do a LOT of 12v lighting when kits where made by Luxform and Ring lighting back in the early 90s and it was the only form of garden lighting that existed, mains was too expensive and not viable, solar didnt exist, and 12v was the norm. Ring products actually recommended the use of a loop or ring circuit to combat voltage drop.
Hello David, is that LED driver definitely transformer isolated? As I cannot see that specified on the amazon listing. 👀 Could I also ask you what box you used to house the LED driver and terminate the various cables.
Hi Gordon. The unit is stamped as SELV, but despite coming with a whopping amount of paperwork it doesn't go into any greater detail. It's a model I've used previously without issue, but there are transformers with better IP ratings for outdoor use. This one is housed in a polycarbonate case from CEF at the outbuilding. The SWA terminates onto one enclosure with the wiring passing through a short bit of conduit to a second enclosure where it goes to the remote switch receiver which then connects to the driver.
Can anyone provide a link to such examples of drivers than can be used for this type of bulk led application? Up to now I have only ever worked on led fittings with individual in built drivers. Are they readily available at the wholesaler? Cheers.
I tend to use constant voltage LED drivers, you can get them in low Wattages, 6 - 20W for driving a few lamps in parallel or some LED strip, but they can also be sourced with much higher oomph. Last week I installed a 100W driver to power eight MR16 LED lamps, nine metres of LED strip and ten G4 LED lamps. MeanWell are about the best brand you can buy, but there are smaller brands out there and Sebson who I mention in this video make drivers I've used in the past which seem low cost and reliable. I tend to get them in from Amazon such as this example: amzn.to/2Zs0tiq [affiliate link] as I find the wholesalers don't tend to carry much of use on the shelves. The trouble with wholesalers is they stock gear they think you want to buy, but they never ask what you're actually having to buy from elsewhere because they don't keep ready stock!
Personally..... I’d only fit colour lamps such as Philips Hue in circumstances like that. The light is so variable, including lux and temperature. And then of course the ability to use colour. 🤷🏻♂️
Quick question, did you run the artic in some flexi conduit in the ground or just have it buried straight in the soil - not having a dig (no pun) just comparing notes so to speak 😎
When we lay cable for low voltage lighting like this, we tend to run it through a flex conduit. On this particular job, the landscaper had put it directly in the ground without such. It'll probably be alright, but I prefer to have that extra little layer of protection myself.
It's the Knipex Egostrip: amzn.to/2VBQsfZ It's a flex stripper shown in my Five Lesser Known Tools vid from last December. Great for working with flex, coax and scoring the inner insulation of SWA!
That's a Knipex Ergostrip, handy for flex, coax, scoring SWA inner sleeving and so on. There is a link in the description, and I also show it in more detail in last December's Five Lesser Known Tools video!
I've never seen a Sebson MR16 fail. Also, other makes of lamp I've used in the past have proved problematic with flicker, weak light output or outright conking-out. I fitted Osram before and experienced a high failure rate. I put a two-year no-quibble on site warranty on anything I supply and install though.
The receiver is just three wires, 230v in, neutral and 230v out. At the end of the SWA is an IP enclosure containing the receiver and LED driver. The nice thing about these remote switches is that the switch part is self powered - it has no battery. I believe it's piezoelectric like one of those gas lighters so the action of pressing the button powers the signal sent out. They've a good range though, and they've proven reliable for me. Simple and cost effective!
@@dsesuk Thanks for the quick reply. Good vIdeo. Yeah ive seen a few videos with the quinetic wireless stuff. It Looks good. Its a bit more pricey though.
The run isn't long enough, and the 2.5mm cable is fat enough, that it isn't causing a problem. Volt drop would still exist at 24v though, and the effect of not enough voltage getting to a 24v lamp would be the same as if not enough was getting to these 12v lamps.
@@dsesuk 24V would be half the current, and given that voltage drop is a function of I2R losses, the voltage drop is halved in real terms. Given that you've doubled the voltage to start with, you then end up with a quarter of the percentage voltage drop that you have with 12v.
It was already cleated to the wall and terminated at the other end, but I could have replaced it. As I'd spoken of the gel splices in the previous video though, I thought it would be good to show a resin joint going in. Sadly, it was a bit rushed and I hadn't charged the camcorder!
Would have been nice to see the testing prior to pouring in the resin... I presume continuity test on each of the 3 cores to the steel armouring and IR test between all cores and then between each core and the steel armouring. SWA-L SWA-E SWA-N L-E L-N E-N
I try to include testing where practicable as I know that's what people want to see, but with the time I had and because it was so soon after my previous video where I used the gel splices, I figured the mechanics of the SWA splice was what this video was really about. Besides, if I talk to much, I just get comments about being a boring twat!
"Landscaper" ... hrmmm Or maybe the landscaper WAS a landscaper and gave the owner exactly what the owner demanded to have for the price paid. Since the design is a somewhat visually jarring daleks-on-a-stick in a meadow looking thing, I'm leaning towards "Landscaper". Also mowing ... yeet.
@@dsesuk I see, it's a work in progress kind of thing :) Alright Mr Savery, I'll subscribe already, no need to keep on reminding me by not asking for subs :D
12v is all well and good but for long runs voltage drop becomes an issue and any large loads at that voltage would require silly thick cables Considering all electrics outside must be RCD protected using 230v isn't really a safety issue imho. Also the 12v option would be significantly less efficient and use more power than if you did the same setup in 230v
At this scale the facts are, this works, 12v is demonstrably safer, an RCD would be considered as additional protection only. You can't say this would be safer using 230v with an RCD present. There's a reason regulation 415.1.2 disallows this (assuming flexes from 230v GU10 spike lights trailing around the garden waiting to be cut). As for energy efficiency, who cares? Lighting up their garden pond is a luxury, not a necessity, and is any saving in energy by whopping up the voltage really more beneficial than the safety of ELV? For a larger scale, or a more industrial application then yes, but we're talking about domestic garden lighting here.
I find it physically awkward to manoeuvre the head of the crimp tool around three wires so physically close as these. The first wire is no problem, the second is a little awkward, but once they're in place, the third is tricky and sometimes the crimp process fails. Under most circumstances, I agree that a crimp is better, but in this application where the screw connector is physically easier to install and the screws cannot work loose because of the resin, then I choose the screws.
No way is that a good Cast joint kit, never use terminal screws, and the earth continuity is just asking for high resistance. The better kits come with a ferrule that slides under the armouring, then a non-return clamp is used to connect the braid to the armouring.
They call me The hanging cables of Bazalon. I leave loads on every cable. Probably costs a fortune over the year, but never have this problem. P.s my name is Barry haha
The SWA connection is absolute shite. Electrically poor, mechanically non-existent. Pull that cable and it's obvious where it's going to pull apart ! I guess the inept IET finds this perfectly acceptable. The clear plastic 'tube' ought to be metal with cable clamps at each end for the SWA to be clamped into and bent over to ensure both sound electrical and mechanical connection.
commentard dark ages haaaaaaaaa ha what a twatapotamous............. low voltage (12v) is best solution and led diver is constant current device so don't have to worry about voltage drop on long runs driver will adjust voltage to keep set current level
Very refreshing to see a professional correctly making the splice and joint, unlike some others on UA-cam
Good job, mate. SELV is much better than 230V if it's a relatively small load and the cable is not too long. In this case, good use of SELV, especially because the lamps are next to the pond. The gardener will not be shocked dead, when he mows them over. Always think about the unthinkable.
Great video David, I remember doing two joints on the top of a fuel tank. The cables were 240 mm 4 cores. We mixed the first bag and poured the joint with success. On the second joint we split the resin bag and scooped it in to the joint with bits of steel armour and all the the cable trimmings by hand. The site electrical engineer put our joints under a 5kV test and it passed. I guess it's still working OK now.
Excellent video really enjoy them when you show what you have to do would love to see how you do a conversion from 230v to 12v garden lights it also helps to see the products that you use all brilliant thanks
There's an old video from 2016 where I did a conversion of an E27 bollard style light if it helps.
Another brilliant video. I've recently returned to doing domestic electrical installations after an absence of some 20+ years. Although back in the day (haha) I was doing more fun, 3 phase stuff with horticultural, agricultural, industrial and commercial installations. I did C&G 236* (something or other number) back in the late 80's and learned most of the practical stuff long before leaving school, from my now late dad, an electrical engineer from 1950 onwards so sometimes a bit emotional. Anyway, I completed BS7671 18th edition, domestic installer and competent persons scheme 'refresher' courses earlier this year. So your videos are a real 'godsend' as theoretical and abstract explanations are no substitute for practical demonstration. So helpful that you flag the relevant Regs too, really helps to reinforce my ailing memory. ;) Thanks again so much
I to always do any garden lighting that enters the ground as 12v where possible. Any damp get on the connections at 240v and the RCD will trip.... guaranteed to take out the freezer when they are on holiday.!
if its on a RCBO will not :D
I bodged together 8 old MR16 led bulbs soldered straight to cable and old 12V driver to give me some light up the garden
Highly effective, safe and didn't cost a penny
12V is the way to go as long as you keep the wattage low
Great video sir
I have 100W of garden LED lights on 12v it's been running fine for years, 20 * 5W bulbs, it's a long run too over 45 meters
@@VAX1970 wow that's at least 8 amps. You'll probably get a fair bit of volts drop but it doesn't matter. It works.
Do you get many aircraft trying to land in your garden? 😂
@@ralphsterz2889 The cable is very thick which improves performance, there is some voltage drop, i use cool white bulbs, so it's barely noticeable. I use a wire wound transformer.
My mate and I laugh at each other whenever we make these joints off because he uses the stripping tool like yours and I stay with the hacksaw method. Never the twain shall meet lol.... The sandpaper is to be used to rough up the pvc of the cable where it enters the joint to give the resin a bonding surface to grip onto. I don`t always do this though. When you spilled the resin I thought "oh no, he`s not going to have enough left to fill the joint", happily you did. Nice instructional video and I hope you don`t get cancer.
I do like the Armourslice; good bit of kit and makes off a neat end.
This is the first time I've seen a UK 12 volt landscape lighting video. I'd say it's much safer then mains voltage lighting. In the US nearly all landscape lighting is 12 volt LED. The downside to it is the landscape contractors got in on the
installing and not exclusively the electrical contractors.
The idea of using selv in garden lighting is great. Definately much safer and more practical.
I don't like the constant force spring clips particularly when there is no furrel. I use appropriately sized jubbly clips with the armour running straight through and jointed directly to the amour. I find this stiffens up the cable to hold them in line for the carcase and provides a more reliable mechanical connection.
I couldn't tell if you did or not. Ruffing up the outer sheath as it enters the joint with the sandpaper allows the resin a better chance of providing a a waterproof seal. Also i prefer appropriately sized crimp joints and if not using the choc blocks singularly and staggered to keep the connectors well within the main body of the resin rather than near the edge and often showing through the resin.
Like you I think 12v is a much better idea than 230v for outside lighting.
Great video, as ever. Glad it’s not just me that has to fight those constant force springs!
The best mixing method for two part resin is to keep pulling the bag over your knee which makes the resin mix better
Liking the top tippery!
Warm it up first too will mix easier and set quicker
6:00 "I'm not a great fan of crimps" YAY !!!
Lots of sparkies seem to love them (JW included) but I'm so pleased you've accepted that they're a flawed technology. (video gets a thumbs up for that)
To an engineer, we know that when the crimping tool is released, the natural springiness of the crimp metal will release some grip on the wire - and this is unavoidable - unless the method of crimping is by use of screws in a giant 'chocolate block' which you leave in place. An alternative is to crimp and then solder. Crimping also has no conductor-cleaning function like a screw has as it's being gouged into the conductor. Quite possibly why sparkies need torque screwdrivers and engineers do not.
I know what you’re saying about the springiness of the metal, but the crimp is designed to take it into the ‘plastic’ stage in the stress strain curve, and at this stage it won’t try and return to it’s original shape, which is perfect for the job
1:12 the amazing disappearing instruction manual trick!!!!!!!!
Brilliant video very helpful, thank you for all your videos very useful for me as just starting out. Thanks a lot!
Joining two different sets of colours like that, do you get a kick out of knowing that at some point in the future someone's going to be looking for that joint having apparently found a cable with different colours at each end :)
Ironically, it'll probably be me, called back at some stage where I know I put a joint in somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can remember where!
@@dsesuk It was a metre from the end - I can remember that - just can't tell you what county the work was done in though ;)
12 months on those lights before pesky landscaper strims them to shreds. Did you leave a card 😂
I think the plan is to cut out circles of the turf around the lights, but it raised an eyebrow or three when I saw it.
@@dsesuk So you might be back even sooner then when they cut through the flexes whilst removing pretty grass circles from around the lights :)
Flexible conduit around the flex for a bit of mechanical protection?
'I'll see if I can wrap my chopper around it' - that's humour !
Great video and selv in that situation is the best! Great to see somebody do a good job.
Agree that very low voltage is necessary in such situations -- especially around water -- but the cable going straight into the turf is a terrible idea. That is bound to be cut by mowing/strimming.
Something is being done about that.
How long before the gardener strims or mows through black lamp cables in the grass ? Good job it is 12v
Yeah, the turf was a surprise I could have done without.
Brilliant video David! Doing quite a lot of SWA on site coming into distribution panels at the minute and have purchased and used the CK armour slice, definitely a good purchase, but I saw the tool you used to strip the outer sheath of the 3 core flex, what do you call that tool and where can I get one!? Another must have!
Ah Ive just found it in the video description thanks
Ah, the Knipex Ergostrip - more on that in my Five Lesser Known Tools video from last December!
Regarding the spike light leads and the risk of damage, how about constructing a small wooden box which would sit a few inches proud of the lawn, then sticking the spike light into that and filling with gravel or decorative chippings? I think that could look really nice.
Great video and you are totally right that 12v for this kind of application is ideal. Cheers.
I believe the plan is to 'island' the lights once their position is confirmed so they're not surrounded by the turf.
liking your SELV fitments. I am Looking at 12v led strip outdoor fed off outdoor supply. Have you a bit more video on how you 240v supply to a IP socket ect and then tap the SELV off? Or do you keep the driver in the warm and run them separately? (Or IP MCB box / fused spur to step down )
No video on that at present Stephen, but in this case the SWA terminated onto an IP enclosure where it split off to feed the socket and to a second IP enclosure adjacent to it that housed the driver. An inline fuse was also installed in this second enclosure where the mains came in and before it went into the driver. The driver in use is a MeanWell product rated at IP67 so it didn't need to be enclosed, but I hid it away for aesthetics and to keep the wiring nice and dry.
@@dsesukDavid, Do you know of a Black IP Rated Module Enclosure?
@@stephencoulthard1718 Only what Wiska produce! They're not big enough for much, but it may be worth asking at your local wholesaler (CEF/Eddies et. al.), they sometimes have different or specialist stuff lurking on a shelf!
@@dsesuk Thank you! I will go see what I can find :) plenty of white stuff not enough Black especially where you need to make stuff more subtle ;)
@@stephencoulthard1718 Yeah, I don't know who thought light grey would be the only colour of choice for IP enclosures!
My understanding is that SWA cable surrounds the live conductors with an earthed metallic covering, thus allowing it to be buried and then run without upstream RCD. If the cable is penetrated by a gardening fork, it'll be in good contact with the earthed armour before touching the horrible brown wire. This feature doesn't seem to be provided by the nice junction enclosure.
I guess that's true, you're reliant on the hardened resin to provide a degree of mechanical protection.
The braid that Dave attached to the armouring with the spring clips maintains the earth of the SWA if that's what you're referring to
@@s30scott I think he means if someone stuck a spade into that junction it could go straight in and touch live without first touching the earthed armors like it would if you stuck a spade into a length of SWA.
The braid maintains earth continuity yes, but it doesn't offer protection from shock if the enclosure is penetrated. The cable would have to have an RCD upstream which is ok for a final circuit, but not suitable if you want to use the SWA as a distribution cable with RCDs downstream.
One thing I'm wondering is that if the buried cable is RCD-protected, it doesn't need steel armour. I bought a roll of YY cable recently and the spec said it was suitable for direct burial. I need to find out what that's all about.
If you're worried about a garden folk going through the resin joint, bed the joint on some sand, pile some more on top, lay a concrete slab, more sand, pack it all down, lay some turf on top.
Circuit for garden lamps could just as well be PELV (use of RCD would highlight a fault condition). Using SELV in the right conditions, ie stood in water (pond) and if a fault had occurred, this could lead to a shock or at least an unwanted tingling. Wet hands give the conductive path a greater area to connect too.
Flexible conduit over the lamp flex, to add some mechanical protection 👍
I considered a bit of rigid PVC conduit, but I think the idea is to remove circles of turf from around the lights once their positions have been finalised.
This is what I do
That’s very similar, albeit on a smaller scale, to the joint boxes that the network providers use in the street, isn’t it.
Hi David I’m Of the same opinion why put 230 kit in and mess about with wiska boxes and maybe swa which although good kit look ugly next to a little spike light in a small garden when you can work with flex and ELV kit. I’d like to know if the Amazon stuff in the links was decent quality and has had no problems ? Don’t know why it’s so difficult to buy 12V stuff it all seems geared to the 230V gear which has inherent installation issues.
"SELV is in the dark ages!"
Yea, much better to run 415v 3 phase around the garden, just in case Jean Michel-Jarre wants to do a laser rock concert in your garden... 🤣🤣
Have you ever come across garden lighting cables which have been chewed by foxes, I've had that recently with some 12 volt ones & some solar rope lights.
Yes, I had a job a year or two ago where some 12v LED marker lights inset into brick edging around the driveway had been dug up and thoroughly gnawed at. They'd have been alright if the landscaper had run the wiring under the bricks, but it ran in the soil behind them.
Sebson SMD5060 are for Indoor use ONLY, they will suffer from condensation problems over time if used outdoors, it even says this on the box!
It's indoors a IP rated enclosure :P
It says it on the Amazon product page, but not on the packaging. That's probably just to stop some idiot using it in an unprotected enclosure outdoors and is likely given as a point of sale warning on most electronic components to protect Amazon from returns. From my experience, I can say I've put a lot of these in over the past couple of years without issue. It is true that exterior conditions will screw over any electrical or electronic equipment given enough time, but that's not what I'm seeing with these. Of course, you're under no obligation to follow my recommendations.
@@dsesuk I've used them and they went cloudy, even inside an enclosure, they still work but i'm not expecting them to last, they have dulled.
@@timballam3675 IP is a water Ingress Protection rating , NOT for condensation.
The only way I do garden lights is 350ma light fittings wired in series or 12v.. Nice bit of metal flexi conduit from the Ip joint to the back of the fitting should keep that flex safe from lawn mower and Foxes.. foxes love eating flex..!
I did once make one with low modulus silicone in my own pond pump when it failed....got a good 3 years out of it fully submerged
In a future video would you be able to show us a branch joint box
With a larger diameter cable 16mm or 25mm split con or swa
If it ever comes up. May not be likely in my mainly domestic scope I'm afraid.
@@dsesuk okay thank you for replying
Oh mate, I'm usually with you (you're clearly a VERY talented guy!) - and I was on this vid until you said that GU10 and MR were equivalent unless you downsized the voltage. I use GU10 EVERYWHERE cos in this world of smart lighting, I have lamps that are grouped together and controlled by Alexa and Google. I REALLY feel your pain about the "final 12 inches" as I call it - the bit of exposed cable to the IP67 lamp fitting - but as long as it's RCD/RCBO protected.... I think these days customers are more demanding. MR16 doesn't cut it for technology. Lamps like Lohas have Wifi built in, and can be controllable individually or in a group. I implore you to future-proof your technology solutions, not just your electrical ones. DM me anyday if you want to discuss, I'm passionate about smart-tech!
When it comes to garden lighting, then unless the client has specified they want something clever, I'll take the safety of ELV over possible future expansion every time. For something like this, basic on/off control can still be put in at source if they want to voice activate it. I just don't like relying on an RCD as the sole means of protection should that flex get nicked and the line cores become exposed; it goes against Regulation 415.1.2. Besides that, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to smart tech: as far as I'm concerned, it's not my job. I deal with fixed wiring and faultfinding only. If the client wants smart stuff, they can buy it and I will install it, but there my support ends, they can figure out for themselves why it's not talking to their iPad or whatever! I don't want my warranty support to become bogged down with IT support just because Google or Apple have moved the goalposts and stopped supporting a product or have issued an update which borks it in some way. Of course, there are those out there, perhaps such as yourself, who can make a good business out of smart tech solutions, and I wish you all the best with it, but it's not for me and my business.
As someone in the IT industry, I also think smart lights are a terrible idea. If you want to control things through Alexa or whatever, wire them back to a single controller and securely interface with it there, don't have little WiFi/RF clients in every single light fitting. Not only do they sit there chewing up power even when the light is off, but then your neighbour upgrades his router and suddenly your lights don't work anymore because he's picked the same RF channel as you.
Then of course most tiny embedded devices don't have enough processing power to do WiFi security properly (not that it's great at the best of times) so you may as well wire a switch out in the street so passers by can turn your lights on and off as they please. Granted losing control of your garden lights isn't a big deal, but if you use these for indoor lighting it's just going to be annoying when the kid next door figures out how to turn your lights off while you're in the middle of eating.
Thanks for the info David will have a look for the video
if that flex bothers you then why not use armoured conduit ?
I can seriously see house lighting circuits being 12v in the future, theres no need for 240v ac anymore, in fact most incandescent bulbs are now illegal anyway.
And the volt drop and wasted copper?
@@johnalexander2349 Easily rectified with a constant current transformer
Because all of a house's lights run at the same current?
Thanks again David, for yet again an excellent video.
BTW... Is it fine to be "off color" at times, shows you are human.
Lovely to see you including Puss in the video, we have 128 here in the sanctuary that I run!
Thanks Albert. I'm not sure about 128 cats; it sounds like it could either be the most stress-free job in the world with that many cute fluffy things to pet, or the most stressful!
@@dsesuk
David.. It's the latter. 100 hr working week, 52 weeks per year, UNPAID!
Used to work for IBM UK and retired to Ireland. Am 75 years old next month. Bad bad mistake, but 13000 plus animals saved. Last real Holliday was in 1995 when I took the grandchildren to Disney land in Florida.
The 128 number excludes our dogs and wildlife!
I HaVe to maintain 24 outside buildings, ALL with hodgepodge of electrical stuff.
David.... By trade I am an electronic engineer. Your videos are so dammed useful to me as they give me guidance.
BTW, breaking the neutral in the CU here in Ireland is ILLEGAL!
NO 18th edition here.
David, are u on the peatron system?
If so... I will sign up.
@@albertkleyn111 Crikey, I'm sorry to hear of the effort Albert, but saving that many animals must be a sense of achievement?! I'm afraid I'm not on patreon, I film this stuff for my own selfish reasons: to keep my head in the game and promote my business. I'm happy you find it worth tuning in for, especially since it sounds like you have so little time!
Hi so with selv is it just live and neutral into transformer and then live and neutral out. then just continue earth straight through. So all cables are still earthed
Do these out door lights also require an earth connection
I totally agree with you and it’s a great idea for external lighting.
Do you ever suffer issues with volt drop? Seems to soon tail off when talking 12vdc
Most of my 12v lines aren't too long, this being perhaps the longest I've put in which is why I went for a 2.5mm flex. A shame I couldn't show them working in this video, but they work well.
There’s always 24v!
If you want longer runs of say 30m upwards, you can always run the 12v feed cable as a ring/loop starting at the transformer/driver and returning to it. You then connect your lights anywhere along the ring and you get even current sharing, which helps to reduce voltage drop to almost zero. I used to do a LOT of 12v lighting when kits where made by Luxform and Ring lighting back in the early 90s and it was the only form of garden lighting that existed, mains was too expensive and not viable, solar didnt exist, and 12v was the norm. Ring products actually recommended the use of a loop or ring circuit to combat voltage drop.
Top man....another good one Thanks
Thanks as always Marky D!
Thank you sir .
Hello David, is that LED driver definitely transformer isolated? As I cannot see that specified on the amazon listing. 👀 Could I also ask you what box you used to house the LED driver and terminate the various cables.
Hi Gordon. The unit is stamped as SELV, but despite coming with a whopping amount of paperwork it doesn't go into any greater detail. It's a model I've used previously without issue, but there are transformers with better IP ratings for outdoor use. This one is housed in a polycarbonate case from CEF at the outbuilding. The SWA terminates onto one enclosure with the wiring passing through a short bit of conduit to a second enclosure where it goes to the remote switch receiver which then connects to the driver.
Can anyone provide a link to such examples of drivers than can be used for this type of bulk led application?
Up to now I have only ever worked on led fittings with individual in built drivers. Are they readily available at the wholesaler?
Cheers.
I tend to use constant voltage LED drivers, you can get them in low Wattages, 6 - 20W for driving a few lamps in parallel or some LED strip, but they can also be sourced with much higher oomph. Last week I installed a 100W driver to power eight MR16 LED lamps, nine metres of LED strip and ten G4 LED lamps. MeanWell are about the best brand you can buy, but there are smaller brands out there and Sebson who I mention in this video make drivers I've used in the past which seem low cost and reliable. I tend to get them in from Amazon such as this example: amzn.to/2Zs0tiq [affiliate link] as I find the wholesalers don't tend to carry much of use on the shelves. The trouble with wholesalers is they stock gear they think you want to buy, but they never ask what you're actually having to buy from elsewhere because they don't keep ready stock!
Great help thanks! Imay look into this for my own garden, keep up the real world great contect 👍
Thank you sir, and good luck with your project!
Lets just say it will be photoninduction'd 😉
Personally..... I’d only fit colour lamps such as Philips Hue in circumstances like that. The light is so variable, including lux and temperature. And then of course the ability to use colour.
🤷🏻♂️
Quick question, did you run the artic in some flexi conduit in the ground or just have it buried straight in the soil - not having a dig (no pun) just comparing notes so to speak 😎
When we lay cable for low voltage lighting like this, we tend to run it through a flex conduit. On this particular job, the landscaper had put it directly in the ground without such. It'll probably be alright, but I prefer to have that extra little layer of protection myself.
@@dsesuk I thought you might of, thanks for the reply 👍
3:27 - that's the first time I've seen a tool for that job - does the tool have a name ?
It's the Knipex Egostrip: amzn.to/2VBQsfZ It's a flex stripper shown in my Five Lesser Known Tools vid from last December. Great for working with flex, coax and scoring the inner insulation of SWA!
Whats the name of that red ujimiflick you used to score the inner SWA sleeving?
That's a Knipex Ergostrip, handy for flex, coax, scoring SWA inner sleeving and so on. There is a link in the description, and I also show it in more detail in last December's Five Lesser Known Tools video!
Sebson lamp?? Tight budget?
I've never seen a Sebson MR16 fail. Also, other makes of lamp I've used in the past have proved problematic with flicker, weak light output or outright conking-out. I fitted Osram before and experienced a high failure rate. I put a two-year no-quibble on site warranty on anything I supply and install though.
Not used the wireless stuff before. Does the 230v supply get fed to the receiver first then from the receiver to the LED driver?
The receiver is just three wires, 230v in, neutral and 230v out. At the end of the SWA is an IP enclosure containing the receiver and LED driver. The nice thing about these remote switches is that the switch part is self powered - it has no battery. I believe it's piezoelectric like one of those gas lighters so the action of pressing the button powers the signal sent out. They've a good range though, and they've proven reliable for me. Simple and cost effective!
@@dsesuk Thanks for the quick reply. Good vIdeo. Yeah ive seen a few videos with the quinetic wireless stuff. It Looks good. Its a bit more pricey though.
What about volt drop could you have gone for 24v?
The run isn't long enough, and the 2.5mm cable is fat enough, that it isn't causing a problem. Volt drop would still exist at 24v though, and the effect of not enough voltage getting to a 24v lamp would be the same as if not enough was getting to these 12v lamps.
@@dsesuk 24V would be half the current, and given that voltage drop is a function of I2R losses, the voltage drop is halved in real terms. Given that you've doubled the voltage to start with, you then end up with a quarter of the percentage voltage drop that you have with 12v.
@@charlotterobinson9452 And who exactly sells 24v mr16 bulbs? answer no one! 12v bulb = 12v source
Crimps ok longs you use the correct crimping tool and the correct size for the cable
Quite so, I just don't like crimps as they sometimes aren't mechanically sound.
230V in a garden, near water, hmmm, as you say David, SELV just seems like common sense.
Is it not cheaper to replace the 10 meter length with an 11 meter length??
It was already cleated to the wall and terminated at the other end, but I could have replaced it. As I'd spoken of the gel splices in the previous video though, I thought it would be good to show a resin joint going in. Sadly, it was a bit rushed and I hadn't charged the camcorder!
Would have been nice to see the testing prior to pouring in the resin... I presume continuity test on each of the 3 cores to the steel armouring and IR test between all cores and then between each core and the steel armouring.
SWA-L
SWA-E
SWA-N
L-E
L-N
E-N
Sorry, I can't show everything in every video, and time was tight on this one, but yes, basic continuity, IR and an R1+R2 that meets expectations.
@@dsesuk Never mind pal, just thought it'd be good for the newbies in the industry to see.
I try to include testing where practicable as I know that's what people want to see, but with the time I had and because it was so soon after my previous video where I used the gel splices, I figured the mechanics of the SWA splice was what this video was really about. Besides, if I talk to much, I just get comments about being a boring twat!
@@dsesuk I only noticed the one innuendo this week, hope you're not turning into a boring old fart 😂😂😂
Normal sweary service will be resumed shortly!
"Landscaper" ... hrmmm
Or maybe the landscaper WAS a landscaper and gave the owner exactly what the owner demanded to have for the price paid.
Since the design is a somewhat visually jarring daleks-on-a-stick in a meadow looking thing, I'm leaning towards "Landscaper". Also mowing ... yeet.
I think the lights will be 'islanded' once their positions are set.
@@dsesuk I see, it's a work in progress kind of thing :)
Alright Mr Savery, I'll subscribe already, no need to keep on reminding me by not asking for subs :D
Thanks. Sorry to nag!
Hi. What was the tool you used to score the white sheef
The Knipex Ergostrip. Also featured in my Five Lesser Known Tools video.
@@dsesuk Ok thanks. Thanks for getting back to me
Yes Sir!
What's that £10k watch you're wearing while out basically gardening?
£10k??! It's an £80 Pebble I've had since 2016. A great work watch, although sadly Pebble are no more.
12v is all well and good but for long runs voltage drop becomes an issue and any large loads at that voltage would require silly thick cables
Considering all electrics outside must be RCD protected using 230v isn't really a safety issue imho.
Also the 12v option would be significantly less efficient and use more power than if you did the same setup in 230v
At this scale the facts are, this works, 12v is demonstrably safer, an RCD would be considered as additional protection only. You can't say this would be safer using 230v with an RCD present. There's a reason regulation 415.1.2 disallows this (assuming flexes from 230v GU10 spike lights trailing around the garden waiting to be cut). As for energy efficiency, who cares? Lighting up their garden pond is a luxury, not a necessity, and is any saving in energy by whopping up the voltage really more beneficial than the safety of ELV? For a larger scale, or a more industrial application then yes, but we're talking about domestic garden lighting here.
Sleeving?
Text book torpedo joint!
6:30 what is the braid used for?
It links the armoured sheaths of the two cables to extend the earth continuity from one to the other.
David Savery Electrical Services Awesome 👍
I fit these all the time but my twatty customer keeps powering up just 5 minutes after. Electrolysis comes to mind….. 30 turns old turnip?
Crimps would have been better if you crimp the crimp correct it is always better than a connector block
I find it physically awkward to manoeuvre the head of the crimp tool around three wires so physically close as these. The first wire is no problem, the second is a little awkward, but once they're in place, the third is tricky and sometimes the crimp process fails. Under most circumstances, I agree that a crimp is better, but in this application where the screw connector is physically easier to install and the screws cannot work loose because of the resin, then I choose the screws.
Can't beat the Techmar 12V plug and play modules 👍
Nice stuff, but a bit heavy on the wallet!
@@dsesuk Agreed, so what do you use instead?
David I know it’s a fairly old video now... but looking at the comments, is it only me that picked up on the “chopper” comment at 3:49? 😂👍🍆
You and one other I think Tom!
"Arctic" flex - not suitable for use in the cold :P
No way is that a good Cast joint kit, never use terminal screws, and the earth continuity is just asking for high resistance. The better kits come with a ferrule that slides under the armouring, then a non-return clamp is used to connect the braid to the armouring.
Much more entertaining
I thought getting your chopper around it was humour
A low shot, my heart wasn't in it.
They call me The hanging cables of Bazalon.
I leave loads on every cable.
Probably costs a fortune over the year, but never have this problem.
P.s my name is Barry haha
360p club
The SWA connection is absolute shite. Electrically poor, mechanically non-existent.
Pull that cable and it's obvious where it's going to pull apart ! I guess the inept IET finds this perfectly acceptable. The clear plastic 'tube' ought to be metal with cable clamps at each end for the SWA to be clamped into and bent over to ensure both sound electrical and mechanical connection.
commentard dark ages haaaaaaaaa ha what a twatapotamous............. low voltage (12v) is best solution and led diver is constant current device so don't have to worry about voltage drop on long runs driver will adjust voltage to keep set current level
U defo have no kids
Fruity your fruity