Could Underwater Data Centers Make Cloud Computing Greener? | WSJ Tech News Briefing
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- Опубліковано 26 гру 2022
- Cloud storage centers suck up a lot of energy. But when Microsoft tried putting data centers underwater a couple of years ago, it found the strategy greatly reduced energy use and improved performance. Now a U.S. startup called Subsea Cloud is pushing forward with similar plans. How much could underwater data centers do to alleviate emissions from our cloud usage? And what are the hurdles to getting there? Zoe Thomas hosts the first in Tech News Briefing’s four-part series on emerging climate technologies.
#wsj #technewsbriefing #podcast
I asked chat gpt the question many of you have, here is it's response:
The total heat capacity of the ocean is approximately 3.3 x 10^22 joules/degree Celsius, while the total energy consumption of all data centers worldwide is estimated to be around 200-250 TWh per year, or approximately 7.2 x 10^17 joules per year. This means that even if all of the heat generated by data centers were somehow transferred directly to the ocean, it would only result in a temperature change of a few thousandths of a degree Celsius, which would be imperceptible.
bUt iF YoU InCrEaSe tHe uNdErWaTeT TeMpErAtUrE By .00001 DeGrEeS AlL FiSh wIlL DiEeEeeeeeeeeee
Fake news
Math is Kool
Playing devil's advocate here.. that's only under the assumption that by "all" data centers you only mean to say during this current point in time of history, isn't that right?
More and more data centers will be built. How many data centers would provoke the dangerous tilt to the ocean's temperature?
And let's expand on the subject by including the current global warming issue. The oceans are --already-- warming up from the current events. As the oceans are already experiencing detrimental effects from climate change, wouldn't it be a dangerous proposition to include using the planet's natural heat sink as the heat sink for data centers?
@@chaoticrealm777 dude that's like 5 powers of difference there , look at the numbers lol
Can you trust any data from these underwater data centers, I think it would kind of fishy.
Don't be so crabby. That's a red herring.
Those companies were AMAZING!! I love the idea of the structures serving additionally as reefs as the stuff goes in and out of the pods. Both of these are inspiring!!
Surprised that presenter didn't even asked about security issue. After all the containers must be more vulnerable to attacks or natural disasters.
Underwater data centers, also known as "aquatic data centers," are a concept that has been proposed as a way to potentially improve the sustainability and energy efficiency of cloud computing. The idea behind underwater data centers is to place data centers in submersible structures and locate them underwater, near the shore or in other bodies of water.
There are a number of potential benefits to this approach. For example, the water surrounding the data center could be used to cool the data center's servers, which would reduce the need for air conditioning and other cooling systems. Additionally, the data center could be powered using renewable energy sources, such as offshore wind or wave energy, which could help to reduce its carbon footprint.
However, there are also a number of challenges and obstacles that would need to be overcome in order to make underwater data centers a practical and viable option for cloud computing. For example, building and maintaining underwater data centers would likely be more complex and costly than building traditional data centers on land. Additionally, there may be logistical and regulatory challenges associated with siting and operating data centers in bodies of water.
Overall, while underwater data centers show promise as a way to potentially improve the sustainability and energy efficiency of cloud computing, more research and development is needed to fully understand their potential and to address the challenges that would need to be overcome in order to make them a reality.
ChatGPT.
@@clouds2593 Spot on! LOL
what about immersion cooling, whats up with that anyway, no go?
hahahahha....hilarious
Next headline:
underwater data centers lead to a 1°C rise in the oceans temperature 🤣
rofl! underrated comment, cmon people like this one!
Since there are many active underwater volcanoes I believe it would be a infinitesimally small difference.
Ice bergs start melting. Microsoft moves out of Redmond due to rising sea level. Energy consumerism continues. Same ole story.
prove it
@@damnwereinatightspot there’s nothing to prove, it’s hyperbole of theoretical risk if you start planting 303994949 underwater pods. It’s pretty obvious energy consumerism contributes to global warming.
You can water cool data centers on dry land. Put the data center next to a large body of water and pump cold water into the data center and warm water back into the water. The problem with both solutions is warming the large body of water. Their demo was one cylinder. A midsize data center would be a hundred or more of these cylinders in one location all generating heat. A similar impact as a midsize electrical power station using the ocean or a river for cooling.
With a cylinder like this you could spread out the impact over a large area. Whereas it’s difficult to spread out the discharge of warm water from a land system or a group system
1.) you need energy to pump and cycle water for cooling whereas in the bottom of the ocean, warm water automatically rise to the surface. depends on where the DC is on land, you're probably recycling same pool of water, so you need to wait for it to cool whereas the ocean, it's pretty much limitless 2.) land-based cooling, you won't be 100% cut off from oxygen like the video described, so you won't get that benefit
Those data centers submerged are probably the cheapest and the least energy intensive cooling, but let's wait for the maintenance. Interviewed talked about the maintenance of the shell, but what about the servers?
@@superandreanintendo There probably won't be any maintenance per-say. More likely, a threshold would be set for continuous operations before server replacement. Time under water vs. number of equipment failure. If these servers lasted longer underwater, then only time to bring them up is for upgrades...
They already do, and it has caused water to be lost. Take a look at the reservoirs and lakes in California that have been drained by these dry land data centers.
Good questions Zoe 😊
I would like to see these paired with tidal power generation to see the ROI model.
This is amazing
what are some environmental issues of this underwater method? Does it warm up the water around? Does it change the ecosystem of where it is at?
Until there becomes too many of them and they end up heating the water
Yes the ocean is effectively an infinitely large heat sink but we said the same thing about fishing the ocean. 200 years later we’re over fishing
Yup, depends on how many and how its distributed
The total heat capacity of the ocean is approximately 3.3 x 10^22 joules/degree Celsius, while the total energy consumption of all data centers worldwide is estimated to be around 200-250 TWh per year, or approximately 7.2 x 10^17 joules per year. This means that even if all of the heat generated by data centers were somehow transferred directly to the ocean, it would only result in a temperature change of a few thousandths of a degree Celsius, which would be imperceptible.
@@marcosalazar7090 Playing devil's advocate here.. that's only under the assumption that by "all" data centers you only mean to say during this current point in time of history, isn't that right?
More and more data centers will be built. How many data centers would provoke the dangerous tilt to the ocean's temperature?
And let's expand on the subject by including the current global warming issue. The oceans are --already-- warming up from the current events. As the oceans are already experiencing detrimental effects from climate change, wouldn't it be a dangerous proposition to include using the planet's natural heat sink as the heat sink for data centers?
Underwater data centers could revolutionize cloud computing by making it more energy-efficient and sustainable. But, as with any new technology, there are also obstacles to overcome, including the complexity and cost of building and maintaining these submerged centers and the potential environmental impacts, that would need consideration.
Where this would make sense is if a country is offering certain zones and can provide clean power. From there you set up a manufacturing area close to where the data centers will be to start building the containers. Scale would drive the costs down since nothing is really changing. You're essentially putting the same vessel underwater over and over again. You can have maintenance ships that are designed to quickly be able to grab those vessels and bring them to the surface. With scale that ship can be constantly working so having full time staff makes sense.
Very interesting!
Really? If Data centres is in underwater it should be no winter storm, earthquake, floods and any natural disasters cause data centres will send some signs of disasters so all of the peoples will prevent it
How are you going to fix it if something breaks?
Now we should call cloud computing to ocean computing 😁
What happens if this scales? Wouldn’t sea water temps rise? At least locally?
Just when I thought I heard it all!
With these Huge data centers (which is a LOT bigger than that little tube), won’t that raise the temp of the waters, which negatively affects the sea life?
Yeah definitely
depends where you sunk it. most of the ocean floor is a desert. most life is near the surface. if you sunk them several hundred matter dow then there is not much life there anywhere and the little change in them in the floor around the big farm would not affect relevant life resources life fish we eat.
@@lucaskp16 I don't get the logic.
No. The ocean is way too big. Not even lava flows can budge the ocean temperature of the surrounding region.
Safety of such DCs is of concern. There is perhaps no perimeter security. For example, A rudimentary torpedo can rip it easily.
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It would be very easy to send a torpedo to one of these cylinders? Security seems to be a bigger issue for this
Because you can’t blow up a land based data center..? Doesn’t seem to be a difference
@@AA-il9pc I'm a data center engineer. You could try and run a fully loaded semi into the wall of a data center and not even make a dent. There is no under water security system like that. 😳
@@Dobbs6651 Not sure what being a data center engineer has to do with knowing about torpedoes. I’m pretty sure if someone has a submarine and torpedos to shoot, they definitely have missiles. Also, there are plenty of systems for underwater protection. What do you think naval bases do?
@@AA-il9pc not sure you know what you're talking about bud. Naval ships float on top of the water the Microsoft cylinder sits underwater on the floor. Being a data center engineer allows me to have more knowledge than you on standards and practices that are in place for security on a typical Data Center. You took that thing out of context of course I don't know anything about torpedoes as a data center engineer. But it doesn't take a very smart person to figure out that you don't necessarily need explosive ordinance to damage and underwater cylinder. You could probably just go underwater with a common hand drill and bore a hole letting the water in the cylinder. Plus Naval bases are owned by the US Military are you expecting the US military to continuously protect every single underwater cylinder on earth? These things are not going to be just on the shores of the US you know
@@Dobbs6651 Well you’re the one who brought up torpedos, so does that mean you’re admitting you don’t know what you’re talking about. 🤔 Because you definitely don’t. Naval bases have underwater protection from submarines (who spend almost all their time well below the surface). And I’m pretty sure it’s not difficult to make steel strong and thick enough to not be affected by a hand drill lmao. Your scenarios are ludicrous. You obviously don’t know much else other than being a “data center engineer”. Which is what.. moving around wires and racks all day for 25/hr? Also I’m pretty sure you can’t use a “common hand drill” over 100m underwater. Lmao what are you even talking about?
So, what if these data centers begin to warm up the ocean? That would be my question
You are mad to ask that!
The answer is that the ocean will heat up by negligible amount... if it can even be measured!!
@@bluesque9687 I don't know, man. If this is done on an industrial scale, it might be fields upon fields of these things and then the effect might become very noticeable. At least, I'd like to at least see some napkin calculations on that.
@@LouigiVerona if you think about the volume of water in the oceans then even if all the datacenters in the world are put under water then they cannot warm the oceans up in any foreseeable future by any significant amount.
@@bluesque9687 Could you give me some numbers here? I mean, we don't need to think about the volume of water in all the oceans, because you begin by putting the data centers in one ocean somewhere, right? And that constantly increasing field of data centers working non-stop for weeks, months, years has got to have some effect on that particular patch of water and that particular ocean.
I guess one could look at the amount of heat generated by an average data center and then calculate which volume of water will carry that heat per unit of time.
1:00 so the data isn't just floating in the air and is in an actual server? Wow who could have possibly known that. /s
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this video would benefit from more visuals. can't hold attention well enough with just audio....
Very skeptical worth subsea. Couldn’t answer in a straightforward way.
"it's a lights out data center. You drop it in and nobody has to touch it"
Are they demented? Do these reporters know that they are talking about computers? Who he has never had to hard reboot a computer? So they will send the techs in diving gear to do a reboot or replace a part?
What about security? Who’s going to keep a perimeter to ensure terrorism prevention?
it does not change the amount of heat it produces. Maybe more efficient and cost saving for the company, but the price the whole world pays.
Man seeing this interviewer truly makes you realize how limited journalism is. They can only ask questions and the interviewee can say whatever they want. This man just said these centers are like an artificial reef for sea animals. That can very well be true but we won’t know for sure until a random marine geologist decide to make a dive and check it out
What about security? Won't that mean anyone with an intent can access the data servers?
Not access, since there is no physical way to do it without taking the whole shell. Now destroying them or cutting the cables are more important issues. However, not a lot of people have personal subs that can go under 300ft.
Its not a khullam khulla data center.
@@corneilusdonaldson1858 I was thinking along the line of a sophisticated breach. On a land facility, there is on prem security at all times. But these ,as the idea is presented, will not have any personnel for extended period of time.
@@TheRaju991 If near a harbor, they'll have security both on the pier and in the water with patrol boats...
2C air temps? nah, try 4C sea temps instead.
they should call it Wet Storage instead
Put them in a backyard swimming pool.
Next, here’s moonshot - build high latency data centers in space or moon
You mean low latency. Hahaha the idea is NOT new. Reason spaceX starlink is on Low earth orbit because of distance.
Internet in space is already up in many years already, but most of them are on Geostationary Orbit (very far away).
Imagine loudspeaker through walls, you only hear the "bass". Only low frequency can pass through distance and obstacles. Same goes to radios.
If you want to build a new tech, you have to bend the physics itself and that is impossible.
@@dodzb7362 i meant high latency, and yes, high, not low, for the archival data retrieval. I also know what geostationary is and I even know lagrange points :P
Literally 4 years late on this story. Microsoft has been posting videos of this since then.
Come on, Zoe/WSJ…
Really there is no "cloud" ...its just somebody else's computer.
Wow never heard that one before
Why not to locate them in Artic Zones where life is unbearable??? We could use that space that has no other use. Better than to occupy oceans with data centers.
😱🤯
We saw what they did to nordstream. They haven't brought anyone to justice for that. Maybe keep data where it can be physically monitored.
Exactly what I was thinking
I think the security risk was greatly understated. A foreign country could easily destroy these with a submarine while remaining undetected. If we do this, it should only be in internal bodies of water or protected harbors
Now,
Cloud is under water 🤔
I think, if it could make it cheaper. then go eagle!
"Computers don't like the same environment that the humans like" is the all you need to know about the next Terminator movie. Does this guy know how prophetic he is?
This content is so good but I always have to stop after a minute because her voice is so hard to listen to
have yall seen maxie reynolds? she was a underwater pilot in the oil and gas industry.... but she looks like a legit super model. it's kinda unfair how people hit the genetic lottery and also have the work ethic to boot, reminds me of super star athletes.
Having legs of "teak" Helps to get a good "gait" You would be very successful in "kommerse" For a very long "tare-eam"
Can’t we leave the ocean alone? We have ruined everything on land.
How much will they heat up the water? Maybe we can melt the icebergs faster
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water will leak in and drown electronics. then you will say chip prices increased
Wow. Greener. Like the windmill landfills.
Yes it is, no energy needed for active cooling. No need for refrigerators.
Maintenance of the shell? Well, we don't have refrigerators anymore.
It's in the interview.
If you worry about the space we are taking then just look, it is already being taken for ground data centers
@@superandreanintendo It is called "heat exchange" for a reason. The massive server farms take in the cool water and release HOT water into the oceans. There is nothing green about it, as there is nothing green about EV's, windmills, solar panel production and waste disposal, etc. You are being scammed.
Keep in mind that our personal carbon footprint was a propaganda tactic by corporations like BP to move the conversation from their actions to the actions of consumers
My computer fell out of the underwater floating tanks! Oops! I cant swim.
This is a great idea, seeing that crypto cannot be minted when the power is down
Can we use this tech to help out those Micronesian nations? They have nothing but oceans around them and have struggled economically.
Can someone tell me the correct pronunciation, is it data or data?
the CEO didn't even mention the word, she would have been the tie breaker
It's data, with an A
this is old info.... wanna learn somethning new, read an old book
Those data centers are not any greener, as they would have to dissipate the same amount of heat. It's simply cheaper to dump that heat in the water, as it has a density 1000 higher than the air, hence being just cheaper for the operators. The impact on the environment is the same, the only difference being that you need a cheaper cooler equipment, yet more special equipment for the underwater operations.
Air is too strong of an insulator to dissipate the heat at a rate necessary to allow servers to run. So additional energy is added to these farms in order to keep them cold enough to run. Cooling uses an immense amount of energy which ends up adding a lot of net-heat to the system (i.e. earth)
I don't think what you wrote above took the AC into consideration
@@TheLegendOfCockpunch I did take the AC in consideration. The only savings are to the accounts of the data centers corporations. They try to appear as |green" and protectors of the environment, while they are in fact just damaging the environment in a less visible area. In fact this is not new, as some data centers are located in Norway, Iceland and other cool regions for a similar effect.
If a company really wants to be green, it has to diminish its footprint, not to camouflage it.
No fans, no pumps ! ...... got it ?
@@prashanthb6521 I already said about that a couple of times.
The underwater equipment ads to the footprint quite a lot, whilr the companies are saving money on the energy consumption. The overall impact on the environment is similar or higher thanthe regular on ground facilities. Obviously, you don't lace such a facility in a hot climate area if you really want to save money...
Say goodbye to any future tech jobs. 67% Decline coming up.
And how would you protect those data centres that are underwater. Any country with a capacity to have a submarine leave a depth charge beside one could take out a whole system.
This is reality. Britain has monitored many Russian submarines that follow the cables underwater.
There are plans out there to cut off communication in the event of an incursion. They have been practising now you want to send a whole data centre underwater.
Why don’t you just give them a key to the castle.
What if...
We placed the datacenter near the coast and then used once through seawater cooling system to cool it down
@@vishalgiraddi5357 Salt water is very corrosive but, anything is possible with the right equipment.
I watched the same thing 3y ago.
How about doing something with the heat. Warm up some sand for the winter.
FYI computer hate saltwater
FYI engineers probably know what they are doing and are certainly aware of saltwater’s corrosive nature.
@@qwerty112311 not really - that was part of the test.
A new scam
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What is our FAITH?
❤️
We must also love and give life to those who are born by God.
Faith .or family.( Like Abirraham 's relationship told God of Abirraham is powerful ❤️❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼👍and Lord is living God 👍👍👍 AMEN 🙏🏼)
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Romans 14 ;-7,8
For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
This is how we live as long as we live in this earth .
Death also tells God .
We have Eternal life.
We are light
We are salt .
We must pity or no pity to a Gentile
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Simple answer....no
Water take more energy than air to change in temperature, any which way. A non quantifiable negligeable amount of heat; there is no such thing.
It will all add up. Like NOx from car exhaust, particulates in the air, plastics in the sea... All were proclaimed as having negligible impact.
Yup. And nothing will grow on them.....and insulate...... Lol
Give me a break.