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The reason HIT works for people (and I use the term "works" very losely) is that 90% of gym goers are very lazy and they don't have any concept of RIR. So they used to come to the gym and do 5 useless lazy sets with tons of gas still left on the tank and they didn't progress. Now they come to the gym and instead of 5 useless sets they do 2 useless sets (the warmups) and actually try to go hard on the last set because since they only have one chance to make it work they focus more on it. So effectively they went from 5 useless sets to 1 useful set and they finally see some - not much but still 100% better than before - progress. Obviously they could just learn how to train properly but after 2 decades of experience I realized that 95% of the people will NEVER learn how to train properly no matter what happens because they are allergic to hard work. HIT gives them a simple enough template to follow so that they can still make some progress without having to learn how to train hard and manage fatigue correctly.
I agree with that and there's a reason why Mike said 1 set is enough: it's because it's better to perform more reps whether it is assisted or force, static hold then negative reps-and it's true that people misconcept that those last reps are the most dangerous, but it is the initial reps. When your muscles are getting fatigued, it's warmer, you're more focused and you're using less muscle fibers, and those are slow-twitch type which provides better control and stability.
Personally HIT is the best program I've ever used to make progress. I'm less injured, more motivated, and stronger using this system. That being said I think you need to train 2 to 3x a week to get the proper benefits not 1x a week. 7 days off is just too long. I think 2x a week could be a sweet spot with things like yoga in between on your off days. It's fantastic for martial artists, race car drivers, action sports athletes like skateboarders/skiers, endurance athletes and other athletes where lifting is just an adjacent skill and you don't need to be sore all the time. Slinging heavy weight around 5 to 6 times a week destroyed my body and HIT is fixing it.
I've been lazy as hell and doing a PPL only once a week and I've been seeing more gains than ever before. This is shorter than the garbage I've been doing before, less problematic on the joints and it leaves so much more time for other things in your life.
@@Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10 who said HIT is light weights? Lmfao as a matter of fact you go as heavy as possible. When i started doing hit i could do 155 pounds on bench for a 2 min set....i can now do 225 for 2 min and 315 for 70 seconds...im trying to get to a 90 seconds by the end of the year. Lets see you put 315 on the bar and do slow 10 second reps for 70 seconds. Your problem is you dont know what volume or load actually is My 315 for 70 seconds for one set to failure is more volume or load on the muscle than anything youre doing.
@johnsmith keep going bro. Ive trained HIT for almost a decade...i trained volume for over a decade before that. I reached my genetic potential as far as size on volume...BUT....im stronger now on HIT i have way more time, my body looks better on HIT, and i don't hurt all the time.
@@summondominion Yeah im down, i want to start 4 to 6 compounds 3 times a week, 1 warm and 1 10 second set, move on to the next.I have a good foundation of fitness.
The part of HIT people dont seem to get is the intensity. Dorian was basically doing RPE 9-10 on every top set and then he rested for the week. Not everyone can do this, or wants to. You can get your intensity like Dorian, or you can get your intensity with lower weight and more volume, but you need intensity no matter which way you pick. The average gym goer just never learns what intensity is. They want to breeze through a workout and make gains.
@@xenophon598 RPE 10 would be max effort. By doing forced reps, drops sets, and assisted reps Dorian was essentially going beyond RPE 10 a lot of the time. RPE 10 was the minimum.
Yeah let's see what you are holding when you are 61. I have 25 years olds asking me for advice. HIT rules. Volume sucks. The words starting to spread now.
another thing to consider for newer lifters is the learning curve for performing exercises properly AKA developing a skill. squats and deadlifts are not that easy to get right!! performing hundreds of sets over time helps build that confidence to really go heavy in the first place.
I've done HIT routines in the past and NEVER got satisfactory results with any of them. The HIT advocates/cult adopt an unfalsifiable position. If HIT seems to work for someone they point to that as validation that it works. When anyone says that they tried it and found it lacking the response is typically “You just didn’t do it right because when done right it always works.”. Another good example of this is the X3 bar (a form of HIT training using resistance bands) and it’s buffoonish creator John Jaquish. Jaquish actually capitalizes on the cult like behavior that exists within the bubble of the X3/HIT community by encouraging an us vs. them mentality where the X3 users/HIT advocates know the “real truth” about exercise and sneeringly mocks everyone else who is “wasting their time lifting weights” (or doing more than one set) despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary.
My theory as to why there are many HIT Zealots around....Based on Alex's excellent book "Base Strength"! Future Hit zealot goes to the gym and does your typical, high-volume bodybuilding routine. Future HIT zealot grows and get's stronger because....beginner. This goes on for months and months. Anytime the gains slow, FHZ simply ups the volume or swaps out some lifts and goes hard, hammering the body with 20-30 sets/bodypart a week. But then....o wonder! Future HIT Zealot hits a major strength and size plateau (like everyone does, on ANY plan, eventually). His joints hurt. He's not that motivated to train and he's not getting stronger or bigger. Future HIT Zealot reads up on training and comes accross this contrarian training philosophy that makes huge promises. Future HIT Zealot switches from a high-volume, "kill every bodypart with 20 sets a week" to a very low-volume approach and....lo' and motherfucking behold....HE GAINS like a newb again! What happened here? Well, turns out that HIT Zealot simply built a base of work capacity with the volume training. But after a couple of months his body couldn't keep up with the demands. His workload accrued so much fatigue, that his fitness (gains) were masked. Hence the platueau and the feelings of "overtraining." That's exactly where HIT Zealot switched to...well...HIT. And boom! The lower volume gives his body a chance to recover and display the gains, that were worked for on the VOLUME phase. I've seen this pattern play out time and time again. The thing is, in bodybuilding nobody knows about these programming principles, let alone fitness and fatigue. I encourage everyone to read Alex's "Base Strength" book. It will help you understand the principles behind programming, thus making you see "the Matrix" of physical training. Anyway....TLDR.....There's a reason WHY HIT (or low volume training...however you want to call it) works so well...And that is, that you've done VOLUME training leading up to your HIT phase. Again, read Alex's book. Fuckers.
Getting way quicker gains doing HIT, plus all the issues I was having with tendonitis and chronic fatigue have disappeared because I'm giving my body so much time to recover.
@Mantastic-ho3vm 2 -3 warm up sets, which I haven’t changed to this day. Then I would do the heaviest weight possible 1 working set and do a drop set. Id repeat that 5 more times for 1 muscle group training 1.5 hrs a day 5 days a week up to twice a day with naps in between is how I built my foundation. Because I was not recovering in between workout sufficiently I tore my ligament and chest muscle on superset occasions. Id use body moment to swing the weight up like Arnold BIG MISTAKE. Hit involves proper form to failure without compromising form whatsoever. That is why it’s safer cuz it also allows more recovery. If you do hit Monday Wednesday friday. And Monday comes up and your not recovering. Well that’s a sign you need a break to allow proper recovery and growth. So I would allow rest up to Wednesday or whenever my body is ready to train again then continue the 3 days but starting Wednesday. You can’t have have high volume and high intensity. Because both leads to over training. Over training causes joint damage and weak bones. And high cortisol levels which lead to no growth as it inhitbts muscle protein synthesis.
Arthur Jones, Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates gave RECOVERY the space that it needs. I am 58 and the reduced stress on joints and prior injuries makes it the best approach instead of volume. Also, let's not underestimate the TIME that you are getting back. I have plenty to do that bumps a volume approach workout down the to-do list. Now, I can do a workout and immediately put the next workout on the calendar and know that 30 minutes is enough. I also do HIIT sprinting and bike sprinting. I am not a cultist, I just know that for me, this works for the reasons I have given.
Right life's short. If you can get AT LEAST the same results from one 30 minute workout a week. As some doughnut training 6 days a week 2 hours a day. It's a no brainer. HIT RULES for alltime.
I found more success from one set per exercise than standard protocols but that is mainly due to how much easier it was for me to stick with. It has value and merit but it isn't the "only" or even best way. It has just been the best for me.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines You’re literally in every single HIT video I’ve probably come across, and you’re commenting nonsense under each and everyone. Seek psychiatric help immediately. You’re not big, you’re not strong, and you don’t know what you’re talking about. For someone who keeps calling everyone a liar and demanding “proof” from them, you don’t have a single video of your supposedly impressive physique anywhere on your channel.
The guy below you answered your question, which was mathematically wrong to begin with lol. If I'm doing the third set now then how did I do 3 sets first? These Mentzer fanboys are crazy lol. @@g9992
Despite the fact that your blood was boiling I thought your response was delivered in such a measured, thoughtful, common sense way that I took my 3 sets of blood pressure readings while watching your video (all 3 readings were in the “normal” range). I have only recently commenced training with weights to combat age-related sarcopenia and have been getting information from various fitness content channels and now I am going to take a look at some more of your video content. Thanks for posting.
i agree, i don't train with one set because dorian yates does it, i tried because i was sick of high volume, he recommended it, i tried it, i got acceptable results, so i continue to do it, i encourage people to try things on their own and see how they respond. i would recommend it to everyone, and encourage people to test new things out.
There's no 1 set. You do 1 to 2 warm up sets for the big ones like bench and deads. Then one working set to failure. And thats it. No more. Go home rest eat and wait until you are rearing to get back in the gym and feel buff. Not a moment sooner.
Fazlifts did a video on this, and it was excellent. Both Dorian, and Mentzer were getting volume from their warm up sets. They were doing more warm up sets, and those sets were hard sets. All that is really happening with that is they did their top sets after, while most people do them before. They were quite literally just going all out on their last set just like hundreds of bodybuilders. Everybody just looks at that last set as the only set. Biological systems require a consistent signal to adapt volume gets people there very efficiently by supplying that signal more times. This shit shouldn't even be on the table for debate anymore.
In mentzer's heavy duty he advocates for only 1-2 warm up sets. He did do quite a bit of general warm up and stretching, but his high intensity protocol had very few warm up sets (according to his books and video series). Franco colombo and other contemporaries say that mike and his brother achieved their physiques with multi hour sessions and traditional volume training and not with the HIT protocols that they later advocated.
@@ryanconnolly6703 I was taught by a guy who was taught directly from Dorian in the late 90s. He lived an hour away from where I grew up. Most around here train in that way, or at least most used to in the early 2000s. Yes while they said that it was 'one top set' that is all very relative. In practice the warm up sets were to or very close to failure (roughly 0-2 RiR in todays terms). However they weren't counted as actual sets and the final set was the 'proper' set which was done to failure, and beyond with forced reps and negatives. So I know they said that, but what was considered 'challenging' was very relative to the final set.
John Meadows always talked about this as well. The HIT guys did ramping sets up to their failure set, but only counted the failure set as a working set. They actually didn’t train much differently than the volume guys, they just counted their sets differently.
@@ryanconnolly6703 Mentzer was averaging 120 sets per week to failure under Arthur Jones, and in the final two years of his competitive career he cut it to (by his own words) a minimum of 60 sets to failure per week (reading his program he typically did about 90 sets to failure per week, but said he even did even better when he cut to about 60 sets to failure. He also rode his bike up to 120 miles a week). Dorian's programs would put him at around 30-40 sets to failure a week. His last warmups sets on major exercises were pretty hard if we use load and reps to gauge.
I’ve been doing one set training for a couple years now. Been successful in gaining weight, muscle, strength. At first I was doing mostly compounds and full body, so I was leaving a rep or two in the tank. But upon reading about DC training I started using rest pause, and more machines intermixed. Gained even more muscle even in my legs which was surprising. Now I’m doing the “Heavy Duty” experiment and seeing how going to beyond failure and adding rest days according to my body’s needs. So far so good. I’m letting my program write itself based on how my body reacts, and my own time schedule. Most of the people that detract from HIT don’t seem to have ever even tried it for any significant amount of time. Here’s what I know: if you’re getting stronger, over long periods of time, in a slight caloric surplus, then you are building muscle. If you run a program, and you accomplish those metrics of progression, then the program is successful. So far, HIT has been successful for me
I do one warm up set , one failure set on each exercise and can leave the gym after 45 min . it may or may not be the optimal program for me but unless you don't have a job , how can anyone devote 2 hrs a session in the gym ? That's not practical
@@zoybean still doing one set, right now I’m running my split as follows: torso, limbs, full body At the very moment I am doing just a single set, but I tend to bounce between that and doing a rest pause style with 3 mini sets. I back off if I find that it is taking forever for me to recover, or if my workouts start to get very difficult to power through The reason for this strange split set up is because it’s my two favorite splits combined, and it allows me to still hit everything 1-2 times per week and also get the benefits of upper lower or full body without some of the drawbacks. Still constantly making PRs and seeing visible improvements, especially now that I’m doing more for my back and legs. My rest days are usually 2 days between torso, limbs and full body, but after full body that could be 3-4 days. Sometimes I have a lot longer due to work or life or vacation I did do a split very similar to Dorian Yates for a while but my work life just gets in the way too much to have a 4 day bro ish split I definitely find I like doing more movements per session than Mike Mentzer laid out in HEAVY DUTY. Especially when it comes to my back since I don’t deadlift. But I used the single working set method for YEARS before I ever tried HIT and it always worked for me
@@AntiGravityResearch2022 I'm going to start HIT on Monday since I plateaued on a regular strength program (possibly because my caloric intake has now become maintenance now that my mass has increased). plan on hitting the gym Monday Wednesday Friday and hopefully upping the cals. The gym I go to always has leg machines occupied so I'll have to modify a few things. I can do weighted pistol squats so I think I'll do those on each leg while assisting with the other leg to really wring the legs out. I will probably modify the split as well once I realize certain things. Nice to hear it's working well for you!
I am currently using HIT a la Jay Vincent describes and I can say that I am on a bro split training each muscle once per week. I am making gains on the weight and/or reps each week which is surprising to me. That being said, I 100% respect the approach taken in this video. Very based response thoroughly covering the topics and making sure everything is apples to apples. No one brings up the fact that Dorian (and Mentzer) trained with heavier loads with nasty grindy all-out reps. That is NOT how Jay recommends to train. Jay is definitely a Henneman Size principle guy which makes sense scientifically. Now that being said, I am not sure if this is all optimal. What I do know for sure it is safe and I have no pretentions of winning strongman records I just want to reach my own genetic potential. I do not care how much weight is on the bar.
Update: 9 weeks in, I'm up 5 pounds from starting weight. I have changed nothing else about my diet protocol, still eating only 2 meals a day, no protein shakes, pills, powders, or PED's. Zero self induced injuries and no aches or pains. Will continue this for a while.
@@drewmorg. Congratulations! That is fantastic. you know what Mike Mentzer used to say... Take your base kcals, what you need to maintain your current weight (all things included) to get your basal metabolic rate, and then if you are super optimistic to think you will gain 30lbs of lean muscle in a single year, add just shy of 50 kcals daily to that. He said, even go crazy, add in 250 extra (six times his suggestion that he knows worked for him and his many many clients natural and enhanced). It doesn't matter when you take them in as long as you have energy to put out maximum effort. I'm so glad to hear of your success! It is really a breath of fresh air to hear someone training naturally again (I can't talk, I went to the dark side a bit early in life while still doing insane high volume to be able to do even higher volume... And it made my physique not much better outside the initial gains until I incorporated principles of heavy duty and "Blood and Guts" training). So a very big congrats, and I wish you so well on your progress buddy! Please, let me know how you are doing in a couple more months and if you want to chat on a better app than YT comment sections lemme know and I'll give you my email and provide you there with my diff contact info.
Congrats man. I've just started HIT Jay vincent style. I can see how it works, it makes sense. Im excited by the poential results. Other youtubers swear by slow HIT. Bulldogmindset is a big youtuber who converted to HIT and endorses Jay vincent 100%. Drew Baye has an awesome channel on HIT also.
Well put. Jay was my coach when he lived in upstate NY. All I know is I struggled for years doing the 5-6 days per week, 60-75 minute workouts with the split between "strength days" and "cardio days," and then I started doing HIT...and suddenly I am in better shape now than I was at 26. (I am 46 now.)
@@tatuco8 I watch both. It's finally gaining some traction. I remember trying HIT back when I was 18 after making all of my newbie gains on normal volume training for 6 months or so. My results slowed down probably from overtraining and genetic limitations, I am not a big guy and don't ever think I will be. When you're 18 though and gain 30 pounds of muscle in 3-4 months, you kind of assume it will keep going. HIT from Heavy Duty did not get me any special results so I went back to full body training and hitting body parts multiple times per week chronically overtrained condition for over 15 years. I have not made any new gains in that time pretty much until I went back to HIT like Jay teaches.
I will cycle HIT periodically in my routine. It is another tool in your drawer. When competing in the late 80s in BB I used HIT (not Dorian’s level) but drop sets and lots of super sets. My workouts took about an hour, and I won my third show. I also had good success in using conjugate and strongman in the early 2000s.
The earlier HIT version by Mike Mentzer has lots of supersets, he said it is designed for those with good to excellent recovery ability. He then realized that it is too much for the average of his clients, that's why he reduced the volume. ua-cam.com/video/OQHlDLzvjy8/v-deo.htmlsi=Haz7gWrFns_HK4tu this is the routine.
Since January I’ve been working out at planet fitness and have been doing Mike Mentzers workout that you can find here on UA-cam. I do chest/triceps, rest 4 days then do back/shoulders/biceps, rest 4 days and do legs. Then restart the program. The same workout, every time, I don’t even count reps even though Mike was very outspoken about keeping a log of your reps. I have gone from 150 to 175 in 8 1/2 months! And am now close to maxing every machine there. I super set every exercise. I also get about 5 hours of sleep and I’ve not payed attention to my diet at all. HIT absolutely works
Training one set to failure on select lifts over the course of the week, isn't in and of itself a bad thing. It needs to be taken as a part of an overall program. The warm up and back off sets on the day of, plus a volume routine with that lift or an associated lift on an off day.
I do two sets per exercise, two exercises per muscle groups. It has worked great for me. Less sets force me to push each one. I do single set training during Ramadan to avoid sweating too much.
@ahmed mido , My bodybuilding program was six days: Day 1-Legs, Day 2-Back, Day 3-Chest, repeat, rest on Sunday. I do a big compound for each muscle group, followed by a smaller isolation (IE: RDL, Squat, Glute Bridge, BSS)
The funniest part about that Jay Vincent guy is he posts “testimonials” every few days that are literally just a wall of text that he could have typed up himself. It’s ofcourse always about how the person used HIT training and gained 15 pounds of muscle in just 3 weeks lmao.
So I watched a few of Jay's videos... And here are some misconceptions that some people think about his training method... He doesn't recommend powerlifters Olympic lifters train like this unless in their off season to help give their joints a break... He also recommends drop sets or a second working set I you haven't achieved actual failure with your first set... Anyone who has done super squats knows what can be achieved with one set too... I hope this helps
Had 3 high intensity workouts in my 1st year. Failed me in my second year after realizing it’s limitations in expanding overall work accumulation. You’d be burnt out and under practiced. Performance skyrocketed after addressing weaknesses ( higher volume & progression through controlled effort vs high intensity and go all out)
My only contention is that most people arguing for RPE/RIR have a background in strength sport where it is FAR easier to get a good estimate of RIR in those low rep sets. Once you're doing stuff > 8 reps per set, I feel like it is just ridiculously hard to get that RIR estimate right. Maybe its just me.
I’m with you. This whole RPE business is really just guessing at those rep ranges. It’s much more objective training with higher percentages of your 1 RM.
I mean not really, If you don't how many reps to have for a certain weight, just go t failure on your first set, then in the following sets you'll know exactly where to stop
From what I understand on why no one uses HIT and it not being popular is simply as even Mentzer said "it's just too hard to do sustainably for most" or something along those lines. As someone who tried HIT and did it for a month, I can attest it develops PTSD like response to the psychological system as it is very demanding of focus and intensity. Albeit the main mistake I made was trying to do it almost like a regular exercise by doing it more than 2 times a week. Granted personally it is the best out of all in my 20 years of lifting experience. Not only do you have to go to the gym once a week/every 2 weeks, the gains are long lasting and keep building long after the exercise. Not to mention you put on a lot of mass fast. The one key aspect to take away from HIT that Jay and his interview with Drew was the intensity. You are trying to reach peak intensity of your muscle to get the result. So if you are doing it through multiple reps by spending 4 hours a day to get it finally versus 20 minutes then that's what it is or how you are built I guess or w/e. In which case sucks for you that you have to spend quarter of a day for 4-5 days a week trying to get muscle growth. It's important to get that intensity in the shortest time possible to get the most out of the growth.
Agree. Excellent comment. Mentzer is up front about the relationship of results to intensity plus the genetic factor and outside variables like steroids and hormones that help the competitive bodybuilder but the average Joe isn’t looking for a freakish physique just the freakish results .
@@ahmedmido-pb8fi Just search High Intensity Training Program on UA-cam and you’ll see many videos of Mentzer’s workouts. Just know his earlier workouts are those where he trained 3-4 times a week but as he monitored his clients he realized results are better on workouts with at the very least 4 days off. And after a cycle of three 4 day workouts he recommends working out with 5-6 days of rest depending on your results. Good luck
I don’t do HIT traditionally, but I do much lower volumes. 4 sets per muscle per week, split between 2 full body workouts. I like to train to failure. Remember, the best training style is the one you will be consistent with.
you can keep your 3 to 4 or 5 set training a muscle 2 to 3 times a week , 1 set does me better I've noticed it helping me to grow, more is not better, it only takes me 30 minutes to do my workout, all the sets I was doing I realized I was overtrained after going to the 1 set program 3 times a week after I had rested for a week before starting the 1 set program my joints began to show me the hidden aches that were unaware and didn't come to light till after I quit the 3 to 4 set program ! personally I have better things to do than babysit and nurse hurting and plagued joint problems from 2 many sets, 1 set maybe 2 if I feel like I didn't go to failure on the first set, then rest the muscle for at least 4- 7 days before I work it again, I believe this is best for anyone older or a beginner!
One could also argue that Dorian got injured because he at times was using explosive movements during training just like you said he did. Which the more modern approach to HIT is using strict form with a slow cadence until failure which would help negate injury. Also, Yates has said the times he got injured was because he was preparing for shows and was to lean and dehydrated while still trying to push heavy weight to build muscle, when he should have just been trying to maintain what he already had and keep conditioning himself for the show.
My best gains came from 5-3-1 style workouts. Whatever style you use, just make sure to track it so know you are maintaining progressive overload and celebrate your progress along the way.
The only reason I have ever done 1 working set to failure. Is when time was an issue and I didn't have time even really warm up. I just wanted to get something in to not waste a day. Can't say if it could be effective. It was more a mental thing to feel like I did something.
And he totally built his body completely naturally using two 15 minute workouts per week. Everyone else is doing it wrong and only he has discovered the truth. He’s basically Neo from the Matrix bro.
Everything you said and what was shown by these HIT only people I've experience also, it is quite strange talking to these Arthur Jones & Mentzer Myrmidons! They conclude erroneously that HIT is the absolute BEST for muscle size and even strength! I remember talking with one who insisted I should do HIT training to get stronger at Powerlifting! I then responded "why do you think then that powerlifter, olympic lifters or any strength athlete doesn't train that way?" He responded that they don't know enough and haven't looked at the research! He was the Manager of a Gym called Bodytech in Auckland that use to have all trainers doing HIT only style training on clients, cultish to say the least!
In my opinion, everyone should try an HIT Training system like DC Training once in their life. The reason being is learning how to train very hard and adding load while training at RPE9-10 at all time. You can only go RIR3 if you know absolute RIR0. People trash themselves with very high volume but are not getting any gains because they are saving themselves too much so they can survive the insane volume. Quality first, quantity second.
I’ve run HIT. Worked great for me. Better than multiple hard sets? No, but probably equal and in less time. It makes no sense at all for competition lifting, only for muscle hypertrophy
1 set for every man, woman & child in existence for every exercise for all goals - this is also apparently the best scientific, anecdotal and evidence based approach 🤣 Amazing how it's all so simple! Take notes Schoenfeld 🤣🤣/s On a serious note I think this is actually a really interesting case study of human belief systems, as HIT Jedis also seem to share quite a lot in common with other fringe groups...
Yeah huge red flag when someone claims that everyone else is wrong and they have discovered some ultimate truth. Anti vaxers, flat earthers, HIT jedis, it’s all the same crap. Ignoring all of the evidence and just clinging onto radical ideas.
HIT works well with accessories for me. Main lifts need more practice though, Jay actually talks about that quite a bit in some of his videos, I’ve heard him say that at least 2-3 times. Especially skill based lifts like squats
@@AlexanderBromley That 21 conference is insane. Dudes literally preach about how women should be slaves to their husband, not be allowed to work and only be baby makers. So gross.
I’ve been a competitive powerlifter for 14 years, but I have always been attracted to HIT philosophy since Dorian Yates was Mr. Olympia (before I even started lifting for real). I wished HIT worked for strength. 😄 But since I don’t have any competitions on the horizon, and time has been very tight for me in recent months, I’ve been training that way lately. I think it’s viable for muscle building, but under one condition: you MUST push yourself beyond your initial threshold for “failure”. I think that’s why it worked for Dorian, and why DC seems to work well. If you can get another rep or 2 after a 20 second rest, then that first “fail” didn’t empty the tank.
This has always been my opinion. I think true HIT works, but that the vast majority of people don't teach that "true failure" to hit the trigger. There's a certain mind-muscle connection needed. "Whew I'm beat" isn't the same as mentzer's theoretical "every fiber is exhausted."
HIT works for muscular strength just as well as(maybe even more) than powerlifting training. But the thing is powerlifting is not just about muscular strength. The neurological adaptations to benchpress squat deadlift is tremendously important when you lift heavy, so you have to practice a lot of them to develop that. Think of it this way, someone could have extremely powerful chest and triceps, but never bench pressed in his life. His bench press would be equal to an intermediate gymgoers bench.
HIT has worked for me as a bodybuilder: I usually get one more rep than the previous week. When 10 reps are achieved I add 5lbs and then the new target is 6-7 reps. I appreciate that powerlifters have to do things like 5x3, 8x2 etc.
@@oldskoolbodybuildingroutin7178Mam you are a big ass HIT hater I see, what about if you just try it for a month? But like really try it in an optimistic way?
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Dorian Yates proved the validity of HIT by beating all those Volume Training niggers six years in a row( Dillet, Ray, Cormier Wheeler, Levrone). As for myself, what do you want me to do? Shall I Fed Ex you my training journal?
I have tried training like Dorian did and although it was extremely fun I could not recover from it. After roughly two weeks I could barely sleep and had to back off. I think it can absolutely be helpful as a tool in the toolbox. A lot of people get good results from HIT.
It’s not that jay is aggressive in opinions at all, his opinions are based on factual research and proof driven studies so why wouldn’t you listen to him?
I am not a competitor, or a bodybuilder, or anything of that nature. Im just a guy that goes to the gym. I can tell you without hesitation that the 1 set to failure approach has given me better results than any other system. I follow Mike Mentzer's approach (different than Jay's). I am by NO MEANS the bar to be measured from, so take this for what it is worth. The one thing people dont seem to grasp with HIT is that it is the same amount of time under tension as people who do 3-4 sets of faster rep systems. 5 seconds up, hold at full contraction, 5 seconds down for 8 reps is 80 seconds of time under tension if you do 10 reps at an average of 2 seconds of contraction (which is about average) throughout 4 sets, its the same amount of time under tension, just condensed into one hellish set. SO the volume is still there, it just isnt spread out.
Remember how Kevin Levrone went from not working out to top level Olympia competitor in a few months with PEDs? That was crazy to see. Guys like Dorian and Kevin would look huge and ripped even if they swapped training routines. The genetics, diet, and ability to survive truck loads of PEDs (hgh, slin, testosterone, diuretics, etc.) go a long way. I have trained with 5 top level drug tested bodybuilders including Phillip Ricardo Jr. and 2 teen national bodybuilding champions. We weren't using HIT.
If you do 5x5 at a 2/1/4 cadence thats 175 seconds under load (35 seconds per set) If, eg, you pick a weight such that you can complete 25 reps at that cadence, and do 5 sets of 5 with rest in between instead, is that the same amount of stimulation? Obviously, if you rest between sets you recover. Therefore, the rest in between sets allows for a higher amount of weight in each set. But even then. The weight you can do 5 sets of 5 for is a weight you can move for 35 seconds, 5 times, with a rest of unspecified amount in between. EG - if you can complete 5x5 with 2 minutes rest in between are you as strong as someone who can do the same weight with 30 seconds rest? I think not! At what point do you reach muscular failure in this paradigm? What about progression? Should you be aiming to be able to complete the time under load? Do you just shorten rest periods? Increase load such that you can't manage 5x5? Therefore, you end up with less time under load during your sets. So I look at it like one of two ways - a single set of 25 reps with that cadence is going to have to be light weight (not stimulating) If you increase the rest period between sets such that you can actually complete the sets, you're going to be recovering enough that you aren't really stimulating the muscles. I tried both ways - increasing rest periods, and lowering weight, neither seem that effective. The main benefit of HIT is the strict adherence to an actual time under load. A single set to concentric failure aiming at 80-90 seconds under load is just easier to target and progress from, that's all. Functionally when I looked at how I was progressing using multiple sets I realised that the progression was much the same, but doing a single set to failure just took less actual time, and I could achieve the same relative stimulus with less weight (less injury). That's about it. I was originally a "heavy weight low reps" believer, but my shoulder and spine..... disagrees with this approach lol. Really the majority of the contention is the difference between "reaching muscular failure" and "not training to failure/ RIR" paradigms. (It's safer to joints etc reach muscular failure with less weight.) But how many reps of unladen bicep curls can you do before failure? :D
@jmgonzales7701 overall sets seem to be the biggest driver of growth for me, higher frequency than twice a week can only work for a handful of muscles ie. Delts, forearms, and Calves.
@jmgonzales7701 yeah you could do that , however for me, I find it hard to autoregulate. Ie I'll go too hard on let's say squats, my legs, knees, and back will be sore and because my program says I need to do let's say 2 more sets of squats, I'll do them and risk injury. So I've found it best to limit frequency to 2 times per week and keep my volume somewhere in the MAV range, having higher volumes on lagging muscles.
@@DrRRaza i do 10 sets per week per exercise and im very short on time plus i do martial arts. So currently im doing 2 sets per exercise then i build to 10 sets by the end of friday.
There is no verification on how mentzers, Yates, or Vincent trained. The late Frank columbo said that the mentzers trained like everybody else. He said Ray mentzer spent more time in the gym than he did (columbo). Bodybuilder Lee priest saw Dorian Yates trained and said he trained like everyone else. May be the motivation for seling the new technique is to sell books or UA-cam time. Bodybuilders need to make money when they retire.
Seen a lot of guys who did Dorian training and get great results i did to. However adding volume and not training so hard worked much much better for me. Thats what every great bodybuilder I ever met did.
Great video. I think people can really gravitate toward "esoteric" ideas and high intensity advocates certainly exaggerate the idea that it's some forbidden training technique that the volume establishment is trying to cover up. I have used mentzer style training when I had some serious time constraints and it really refreshed my training. It was a lot of fun, but I didn't discover fire and suddenly make more progress with less time with the magic of HIT. It's amazing the conviction these self proclaimed experts speak with. In a few years history will have already forgotten them and they'll be onto their next internet marketing scheme.
Omg and it's even worse in the comments section!! So many people swear by MM's program but then when they actually spell out their program for you, its not even MM's program. At best, its a modified version of it. I think the bodies i see at my gym and the routines those guys are doing to achieve those bodies, speak for themselves - no matter how much people wanna hide behind a smart device and claim they are getting the best results of their lives doing HIT. And i call total bullshit that these people are actually even going to all out failure the way guys like Mike and Dorian did. Here's a parallel: I'm a guitar player. I follow many self proclaimed 'guitar teachers' on UA-cam and always skim the comments. One of the most common things new players wanna get good at quick is learn how to play/pick really fast. The comments section never ever fails to be plastered with comments that say "teacher A is so much better than teacher B and my progress shows that!" BUT....ever so interestingly enough, when i or anybody asks them to demonstrate via a short video clip of their progress or how much "skill" they've supposedly acquired, they show nothing. They prove nothing. Its always empty claims. It will never ever make sense to me. Why lie to yourself? Why lie to strangers on the Internet? What's the payoff? More importantly, why the fuck am I still typing this fucking book out??? Jesus ever since i switched to HIT I've just got nothing but time on my hands and i don't know what to do about it other than project my first world gripes with workout programs and guitar teachers on UA-cam. Aaaaaanyway.... What were we talking about again??
Dorian was self-admittedly inspired by Mentzer’s training routines, but his own training was different in many important ways: Dorian in his prime trained a four-day split with 2 days on, 1 day off, then repeat. Each muscle group was therefore trained once every SIX DAYS, much more frequently than Mike recommended, and actually more frequently than the average bro/pro standard of 7. This is often completely ignored by H.I.T. advocates, who defer to Dorian as a proof of concept of Mentzer’s training principles. Sure, he was on steroids, but if 10-14 days was so superior, why didn’t he wait more days? Wouldn’t that be more optimal, allowing for greater growth? That was seemingly how long Mike would advocate. Dorian was meticulous in his data collecting, so it’s likely he didn’t stumble on the 6-day recovery period by accident. It’s more likely he tried longer and shorter periods and found 6 to be optimal. Dorian did around 3 exercises per body part. This is more than Mike advocated, which was 1 or 2 at the very most. He also did a significant amount of volume during his “warm ups”, which were discounted when tallying up his training sets. So that’s 3 top sets per body part every 6 days. While it’s in no means a high-volume routine, it’s a lot more reasonable and significantly more volume and frequency than Mentzer prescribed in his most popular routines. If you watch Dorian warm up for incline bench in his Blood and Goods training DVD, this volume is not inconsequential in building muscle when considering the load used. Most powerlifters would argue that he’s doing TOO MUCH volume during the warmups, fatiguing him for the supposed single set that matters. Dorian lowered weights slowly - the eccentric portion of a rep - then lifted them quickly during the raising or concentric portion. If you watch videos of Dorian training people bench pressing, for example, he asks them to imagine a coiled spring being compressed, then forcefully pressing the weight up. This goes against what Mike says, which is essentially “slow is better”. This is also why you see most people training in Mentzer’s style lifting very unimpressive weights. Sure, getting to Dorian’s weights is not possible drug-free, but the average Mentzer fanboy fiddles around with novice and beginner weights in perpetuity. Rather than trying to lifting weights slowly during the concentric portion, most lifters would be better off trying to become stronger and eventually the load of the weights will take care of that itself. Dorian used a mix of free weights and machines, saying that it's about the right tools for the job. This is why he favoured leg press over squats during his professional career, despite Tom Platz being his idol and Tom of course was a huge squat lover. Mike was a huge proponent of machines, claiming them to be superior to be free weights due to their more advanced origin. If you see the footage of Mike training his disciple Markus Reinhart on UA-cam, the only free weights exercise he makes him do is deadlifts, which he uses a whopping 315lbs with. If Mike's training is so focused on strength gains, how come a steroid using bodybuilder can't deadlift more than 315lbs for their top set? Sure, Mentzer’s training is primarily focused on muscle growth rather than strength from neurological adaption and Markus is made to lift slowly, but 315 is nothing an enhanced lifter should be using. Dorian did cardio, specifically LISS cardio, to help strip off bodyfat and help improve recovery between days of weights. He also stretched, as you can see in the Blood and Guts leg day training. Mike would latterly claim that cardio and stretching was not only waste of time, but hurtful for muscle gains. As we now know, once you are carrying high amounts of muscle, it’s important to do some level of cardio, even if this is just brisk walking. Most importantly of all, Dorian has admitted that someone can’t train all-out all the time and that he did, in fact, deload. He would go lighter for 2 to 3 weeks, then go through 5 to 6 weeks cycles of pushing the limit. This is a huge difference to Mike’s training philosophy. Mike himself often stated that if you weren’t progressing every session, you weren’t training correctly and more rest days was the answer. ua-cam.com/video/IN4isF-xXVQ/v-deo.html&ab_channel=HighIntensityBusiness Mentzer’s fans often claim that Dorian’s career-ending injuries were due to “bad form”, using too much momentum. I find this hilarious, because they also want to use Dorian as an example of H.I.T. working. So, which is it? Is he the golden boy? Or a bad disciple? The reality is that the extremes that Dorian pushed himself to unsustainable. It doesn’t matter how good your form is. If you’re trying to be as big and lean as Dorian was, you can only keep that up for so long, just like any athlete at the top of their sport. You’re talking about a man who was underhand barbell rowing and benching in the mid-400lbs range and leg pressing over 1,200lbs. How long do you think you can keep that up? Whenever an H.I.T. disciple pipes up about Dorian using bad form, they nearly always have physiques that are somewhere between unremarkable and unimpressive. And, of course, zero Mr. Olympia medals for themselves or their trainees. Their finding fault with Dorian’s training is classic armchair thinking. So, while Dorian was inspired by Mentzer, his training was different in many important ways. It is disingenuous to say Dorian’s success is proof that Mentzer’s H.I.T. works as prescribed. It is also worth noting that Dorian retired at 35, which is young by bodybuilding standards. He himself admitted that training to failure and beyond with intensity techniques close to a contest is what resulted in his worst injuries, further supporting that some sort of periodisation is what’s required for long-term success.
I tried hit this week. I even bought Jay’s program. My workout was ok. I think to get the most out of this one would need a coach or partner to help you do forced reps. I had to resort to drop sets and still had a hard time getting to “absolute failure”. I expected to be sore the next day, but wasn’t even though the single set was intense. How am I suppose to determine this? With volume training you are getting a continuous stimulus. I also don’t feel like one exercise fully covered a muscle group. I did a machine ohp and felt my delta working, but my traps definitely were unfazed. So at the very least this method definitely will require customizing. For me and I think most people, volume training is better.
HIt works really good. You have to go all in! I do I get so sore and cramps like never before gaining muscle! I stick to 2 sets one warm up and other working set!
Well here is my experience, I was doing 5/3/1 but I didn't know what I was doing at first and didn't use boring but big part of it, that basically means 1 heavy set to failure and that's it. Well shit, hit the wall faster than a 2019 crypto investor. Started doing BBB which upped the volume and made me do all of the big 4 twice a week, I fuckin started to PR all over the place after one cycle(4 weeks). This is where I saw that volume can drive strength like a MFer...
Mr América Heart, John Heart ia also a proponent of HIT but he has a more open mind. He says that if you want to get as strong as possible you should learn from powerlifters.
I wonder how muscle damage and recovery physically and metabolically. Are muscles more elastic or more plastic? If they are more elastic like a band which tears at a maximum intensity stretch and cant be torn further after that, intensity is very plausible to be the best aproach. If damaging the muscle is like scraping incremental damage into the muscle the volume aproach is more plausible. I just cant find anything about it accept that muscles are fibrous and tense
I like H.I.T but I have always responded well to all out set to failure. Do keep in mind I have done 3-5 warm up sets before that 1 all out set and train my body twice in a week with every 5th week being a deload. It really comes down to what works for you.
I was never impressed with the Dorian Yates blood and guts thing. I've gone to failure and beyond many times. I love doing it, regardless of if it's "optimal" or not. It gets me high basically. Always in a better mood after. But I've never had to scream my head off like I was being stabbed. I've always felt like he was hamming it up for the camera. You'd think he was trying to lift a car off someone being that dramatic but turns out it was just a set of 8 on preacher curls. Dork.
Dorian didn't even train that hard. On some exercises he didn't even go to failure so how's that hit? It's not. Reality is he never did hit. He trained like most pro's using plenty of sets and exercises.
Dudes will look in the camera so matter of fact and just tell you something they think they know “you’re doing it wrong” … and the unspoken part is “and im doing it right because i ‘know’ something everyone else doesnt” and meanwhile they are just wrong the whole time 😂
If you follow Mikes advice of using: A. Heavy Weight B. A 4-2-4 cadence (positive, static, and negative motion) C. Train to absolute failure, which, if you dont have a spotter or partner, would be failure on the positive (lifting the weight) Then i can assure you that you will reach a level of fatigue that is unbeknownst to you. That you wont go back to the gym for 4/5 days, not because he said so, but because you physically cant/ dont want to. And in that time of recovery, one should focus on diet and nutrition to give the body what it needs to recover.
Yeah I’m not waiting 4-5 days to go back to the gym after a work out. I just can’t see the body needing almost a week to recover from a work out. I do chest-tri, Back-bi, legs, rest day then repeat (I’ll do abs one one of those days). I average 2-3 days of rest for each set of muscles and I’ve been crushing PRs every time with training each muscle set twice a week. Doing around 18 sets each work out spending a little under an hour and a half in the gym If HIT works for someone then they should do it, but I feel like waiting 4-5 days is wasting time and way more than enough rest
This reminds me a little bit of the Bulgarian method and help although it’s absolutely amazing methodology 99% of the population would just fail at it. And yet, especially in CrossFit gyms where they don’t even really know how to lift people like to throw it around like it’s the ultimate secret. Yeah it’s the ultimate secret to injuries and failure to mastering or even honing in the technical aspects of lifts.
@@terminator_405 a former coach of mine was Max Aita who trained under Abadjiev. I meet Max at Cal strength and followed him when he opened his own gym behind CrossFit Oakland. To make it perfectly clear I never did Bulgarian because well weightlifting never paid my bills. Lol. But I would get CrossFitters talking to me and telling me that they we’re going to do Bulgarian on top of their workouts. Which they never did. But anyway that’s why I made the comment. Yeah I value my life to much and my health to try these fad extreme workouts. But that doesn’t mean I don’t admire some of them. I just think it’s. “Silly” when people recommend them or Bragg about doing them. 👍🏼
I've trained people using hit principals. A common protocol for me was to use one set per exercise and three exercises per muscle group, but two drop sets would be performed at the end to simulate a manual overload which I observed Yates so effectively using. Pick a weight you can manage 6-8 reps with and do that to technical failure, then immediately switch to a weight which is 70% of the working set weight and after that to a weight which is 50% of the working weight, take all three to technical failure. Weight is increased when you can do 8 reps in the first set.
Plus Yates rarely did drop sets. He did back off sets at times. A better way is to do triangle pyramids sets or ramps. Simple concept. Start at 70% of top weight for the first set and fo 8 to 10 reps. Second set do 90% of top weight for another 8 to 10 reps. Do top weight for 8 to 10 to near failure on the third set then follow that with 90% of top weight followed by 70% of top weight. Set 1 70% of top weight Set 2 90% of top weight Set 3 top weight to near failure Set 4 90% of top weight to near failure Set 5 70% of top weight to near failure Better than drop sets and more volume.
The biggest issue with Jay Vincent and Drew Baye isn't that they promote training to failure, but they insist on using very slow repetitions with very submaximal rates for at least 60 seconds of continuous tension. In addition, neither of them will ever respond to hard questions or comments out in the open, but instead, ask you to pay to subscribe to their personal forums if you want to ask any real questions. Baye and Vincent both believe in avoiding training in the stretch range, or using the stretch reflex when reversing directions, and in avoiding high peak forces. People who don't train in the stretch range or with some degree of controlled ballistic tempo end up getting injuries in the real world. Furthermore, no one ever got huge (natural, PED user, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s+) from doing slow repetitions.
@@martonbalogh3760 Most older people, if they die in accidents or fires die because they aren't strong enough to get off the floor, drag themselves up a flight of stairs if they break a leg, or hop down from a 3 foot height without ripping up their knees. Strength in the stretch position, and the ability to handle sudden onset of ballistic forces from falls or car accidents etc. are much more likely to increase survival. I would want someone to be able to lower themselves into a DEEP squat where they are not in an ideal biomechanical position, and be able to stand up, or to be able to drop quickly into a deep squat and absorb that force. I'd probably prescribe deep doorknob squats like this (but as deep as possible): ua-cam.com/users/shortsSOwW6Qvt7TA Also pushups to a kneel. If a senior (or anyone) doesn't practice deep stretched controlled ballistic movements for the knees and hips they will be seriously injured when they are forced into those situations.
@@mertonhirsch4734 What I meant was - Would you let an older person do reps fast in the powerlifting manner with high volume or very slow, light weight reputation till safely reaching muscle failure?
@@martonbalogh3760 Slow reps alone are not a problem. Avoiding the fully extended position IS a problem because that is where most real injuries occur, so there should be an attempt to get strong in "weak" positions. If you strengthen your muscles in the midrange they will be strong enough to injure you in the end-ranges. Also, end range training remodels joints over time and if you avoid the end ranges your joints lose stability in the end ranges. Slow is OK, but I would also introduce "mildly" ballistic reversals from the extended range. Going to failure is not a problem, but may not be necessary.
Yes, 100%. Elderly clients respond much much better to strength specific work at higher percentages (as Andy Baker says, 90% to an untrained 70 year old is taking out the trash). They can sustain hard efforts better than everyone else, they don't fall apart like people think.. The neurological changes emphasize strength, which directly correlates to quality of life, and all of that promotes muscle and bone density. Outcomes with the elderly training 'heavy' are considered exceptional by anyone in that field
I totally understand your point and, I was thinking exactly the same way but the difference it’s that I tried it and went from 7h per week to two 15 minutes splits workouts per week and I did get stronger and I have way more energy and gained 10 pounds after 6 months doing it after being stuck on a Plato for years!!! So , I suggest you try it before judging it! I totally understand that it’s sounds way too good to be true but it works!!! And the key is to get to momentary muscle failure
"Volume of exercise is, in and of itself, a negative factor in the growth process." Arthur Jones was correct. The goal is to get in, stimulate the growth mechanism with as few sets as possible, and get the hell out of the gym, eat, rest, recover, and GROW. It works for me!
It is undeniable that as the intensity goes up volume has to come down and vice versa. What is arguable is if you really need only one set to failure which is not being able to do another concentric repetition in the prescribed form. And Jay Vincent isn't necessarily saying that in every case you need only one set. Go watch his video about body by science community. Maybe you aren't doing it intentionally but you are putting words in his mouth that he didn't utter, sir.
Always makes me laugh when people bring up Yates and Mentzer for proof of why HIT works. Those guys looked the way they did because of heavy gear use and amazing genetics. Yates specifically was one of the first to abuse insulin which is why he had so much more mass than his competitors, it had nothing to do with how he trained. Mentzer was also a heavy drug abuser of all kinds which ended up killing him. At the top level of bodybuilding the best “coaches” are just the guys who have the best drug protocols. It’s all about who has the best genetic response to drugs and who can actually blast the most drugs without ending up dead. It’s a sick, sick sport.
first of all dorian didnt even do dropsets and stuff, he only did if he didnt have a partner, and yes dorian was on shit loads of hear just like every other bodybuilder, but if he didnt train like he did he wouldnt have got gains like he did tho? If he didnt train he wouldnt have gotten near as much mass as he did. Ronnie was on shit loads of gear but still dorian got bigger with the way he did it
Typical hit fanatic: volume training sucks ever since I started hit I grew 3” taller, and so did my pecker. I have women throwing themselves at me left and right and also my boss gives me a raise every month without even asking
I'm training for powerlifting (usually) thrice a week, and my workouts takes anything from 1hr and 30min to 2hrs and 30min, sometimes a bit longer (depending on my energy levels on any given day). I don't ever feel like I "sacrifice" anything due to spending that time at the gym. I rarely have days where I feel like I don't want to train, or wonder "if it's worth it". It's become so ingrained in me that I just "do it". I'm seeing good progress. So, thank you very much, cultists, but I'll continue to "approach training wrong". And no, I have not hurt myself training. Am I open to the possibility that it can happen? Yes, certainly. The only times I've really hurt myself have been some elbow and shoulder tendinitis -- and that came from clapping push-ups with too poor bracing, and reckless form on cable lat raises. Both of which used (relatively) light weight. There is no style of training which leaves you immune to injury. Just gotta be careful and tactical about it. I don't go and bench my 1rm every damn session. Use varying degrees of load and be sensible, and you'll be fine. Why this fear-mongering? (Oh yeah, cause cult)
@Shorty Careface, what you’re saying is if you can cut your total gym time in half ( from approximately 6 hours to 3) and still achieve the same results, you are not interested? I’m not on any particular side but having a family and a demanding job, HIT sounds like a good solution for me. Not saying one is right and one is wrong, just one may have the best return on investment. Best to you my friend. Respectfully.
I wouldn't do HIT for powerlifting. Those longer break periods in between lifts are needed. I don't get why Mike Mentzer's methods are seeing a resurgence. We have plenty of exercise scientists now that have done the research and none of them advocate HIT as the best or most effective form of strength training. This guy is trying to make money off of people.
@@TheDrew718you cannot gain the same results from training 3 hours that you can from training 6 hours. Any experienced lifter knows this from personal experience. Yes you can gain more from cutting from 12 hours to 6 hours but 6 hours a week is close to being a minimum for advanced lifters to still progress consistently at the gym (about 1.5h 4x a week isn't too much). For maintaining you need a lot less than that. Also if you are only for progress in a single body part (maybe just pecs for example) and you don't care about the rest then it's also possible to go less than 6 hours and still improve.
To be fair, DY did say he injured himself while in a caloric deficit preparing for a show, and it was completely avoidable. He was after all pioneering something relatively new/novel to bodybuilding.
I started HIT this month via an old(2004) book by Ellington Darden. I am really liking the change of pace and progress I am seeing. During the past 2 weeks I have consumed an insane amount of HIT content. I had not come across Jay Vincent but I see a lot of characteristics from the interviews I watched from Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer. Not sure if that is intentional or coincidence. I have a feeling it is intentional. Would be curious to go back and see if Jay's style of presentation has always been this absolute. Also notice similar verbiage which make it feel almost parroted instead of owned. It is understandable that many of the HIT followers are zealots. You almost have to be in order to follow something that is so fringe.
I like it too. I think if you use the 12-20 sets standard, and if I use 12 and I don't get results, then do I go to 11 or 13 sets? So I had a layoff and started at one set per exercise two exercises per muscle group. This has worked pretty well for me, I do incorporate drop sets though. If I stop getting results then I will add a rest day or add an extra set. I find the notion that this will work for everyone ridiculous. Everyone should do what works for them.
I have done extremely well with HIT although I have a slightly different style than Mentzer. I do Chest/shoulders, rest, back/rear delts, rest, arms, rest, legs, rest and repeat. I do usually around 3-4 sets per muscle group except for quads I only do 1 for quads so I’m ready to go by next leg day otherwise I’d be sore for a week and a half. But I’ve gained 40lbs with losing fat (not very much fat loss but a noticeable amount to me) in a year and a couple months. I’ve been accused of using steroids by virtually everyone close to me 😂. But I think everyone has a different response to training, so you have to find what works for you. I think your response to training has a huge amount to do with your muscle fiber composition. I think hit style training works very well for people who are made up of more fast twitch muscle fibers, I’m 19 and used to run track in high school doing the 100m maybe that’s a dumb conclusion but Jusy a thought I’ve had
I had two upper body workouts but since i do 1 set till failure i have more time and combine the workouts into one. 3 days rest instead of 2. Sometimes 4 depending how hard i performed. So thats 2 times a week upperbody and 2 times a week legday and it boosted my growth even more. Im very happy with the results.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines as the basis of you workouts, yes. If all you’re doing is HIT, you’re leaving gains on the table. If you’re on vacation or in school and you have limited time to train, it’s a good option imo. Other than that, higher volumes and frequency is superior.
Another typical generic strawman BS argument that has no substance. Please respond with reasons as to how the logic of HIT is unsound and list another method that would be superior. Can you attain gains with high volume, yes, but that is not the point. Its akin to losing weight by starvation. You can get skinny by not eating but that is not superior to eating a well balance calorie restricted diet. Unless you like spending hours on end at the gym to give yourself the PSYCHOLOGICAL feeling of accomplishment there is no reason for it when similar or superior gains can be achieved with HIT.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Stop looking for idols mate. The methods are many, the principles are few. Methods always change, principles never do. People always fear what they don't understand.
I need some guidance. If one set to failure can give almost same results as traditional 3sets per exercise. Isn’t it one set better because it saves time?
Old video so doubt this get seen. But Dorian did a lot of volume. He would sometimes do a set of 12 at a 3 rir then a 10 at like a 2 rir then a set of 6-8 with a -2 rir haha
Really good points. Ive listened to Mentzer's audio clips, and he talks about how his methods are not for weight lifting or powerlifting competitors and especially for anything related to cardio.
Jay Vincent, who this video is about, thinks that one set to failure on machines trains the cardiovascular system as well as any form of cardio, and he also thinks hit is superior for developing muscular strength. He gets this from Drew Bayle and Doug McGruff etc.
14:50 I agree with you in most of the video but I feel like he’s at least half right here. Yes at the top level everyone is sauced but he is right that people who are sauced can handle more volume, because their recovery is literally superhuman.
I tried H.I.T. training for a month or so years ago. Was great moving a little bit heavier weight on exercises for a single set, but when I switched back to slightly more volume I noticed my work capacity actually decreased.
That doesn’t really answer whether it builds the same amount of muscle though. Obviously, if you were doing 12-20 sets per muscle and then dropped to 2-4 max effort sets per week per muscle group then your work capacity is going to go down. If they’re both building the same amount of muscle though, then I guess it depends on your goal. My goal in going to the gym isn’t just to do a lot of work. My goal is to build more muscle. Maybe work capacity contributes to that, but if you did 1 month of HIT and the only thing you discovered was that your work capacity diminished then I hope your primary goal is simply work capacity without regard to whether it’s actually building muscle. Because it doesn’t sound like you really discovered anything beyond that.
@@binchili I exclusively do HIT now because of time and preference. I don’t judge my results based on how much work I can do though. I base it on muscle and strength gains. I’ve done my best with moderate volume (6-10 sets / week) and intensity that took each lift within 1-3 reps of failure. My current results on HIT are not quite as good, but not bad either. I’m also older now though (I’m 41), and I have different life circumstances, so it could be that I would have gotten better results doing HIT previously when I was younger and had a less demanding lifestyle.
@@joachimjustinmorgan4851 first of all thank u for the reply,second,did u do 6/10 sets max for each body part?when doing HIT i suppose or was it a regular Routine?
HIT works well for me very well, but I swap out routines every to higher volume lower intensity every 3 weeks. But I always go to failure on any set. I will add negative reps if I feel I didn't get enough out of that failure, sometime holding and really slowly releasing the last contraction.
Dorian Yates also ran boatloads of gear. People massively underestimate how much high doses of steroids change the rules of physiology. We have studies showing that guys who ran 600mg of testosterone built more muscle doing no training than natural guys who trained intensely. 600mg would be considered a beginner cycle, most bodybuilders are running 5 grams+ of gear. These guys would be massive no matter what the hell they do. These drugs were literally created to build muscle on people with muscle wasting diseases in the complete absence of food or training.
This is very common in bodybuilding. Bodybuilders use a ton of drugs and then attribute their results to their training or diet instead of the gram of tren they are injecting per week.
I really hate this notion that people only get huge by taking gear. There are tons of people who take gear, even boat loads of gear, and are barely above DYEL status. Yes obviously Dorian was enhanced, but the reason he built so much muscle was not just this, but also he emphasized strict form and progressive overload. Those are two things that have been scientifically proven to maximize muscular tension and drive hypertrophy. I think any program where progressive overload and technique are emphasized (whether that’s high intensity or high volume or somewhere in the middle) is bound to produce results.
Ive listened to some Mike mentzer stuff and I have to say I did feel super cult like, especially reading the comments. The thing that high intensity bros do have is effort, a lot of people suck at putting effort into their sets.
It's great since now I spend way less time in the gym, but that leftover time is just devoted to watching old Mentzer videos and flaunting my new training style over others. Seriously though, after stalling and feeling mentally unfocused, HIT has reinvigorated my training and I will keep going until it doesn't do it for me anymore.
I can tell you why people don't use HIT w/ attention to tempo: *because it's incredibly challenging & tedious & sucks much of the fun out of training. + you have to reduce the weight.* People don't want the tedium of lifting a modest weight slowly & counting cadence, so there aren't many people that have earnestly tried it for any period of time for the empirical evidence to exist to demonstrate the efficacy of HIT/lifting to a tempo.
I started doing HIT 4 weeks ago. Sometimes I just want to throw that weight up like I used to but then I am reminded that I never got so quick gains doing it the old way like I am now with HIT. It is painful but man once I am done I feel spent and like I really worked out unlike before.
14:35 I've been concerned about how much energy I waste pyramiding up to max weight. And now I'm older, joint wear and tear. I've tried o.s.t.f a few times. I prefere the technique if my head is in the game. But a lot of the time with having an active job, I struggle to create the intensity needed. I also seem to suffer less overtraining using high intensity. Not sure if I gain less or more because I don't track my performance due to being so active at work.
I trained for 8-10 years using HIT style early on in my training. Probably about 4 years after started lifting. Made some good initial gains. I believe that novices could benefit from a short bout of HIT training because it is a very different stimulus and can have benefit for those who do junk volume/mindless high set pump work. It also trains you to realize your limits and push them-which most novices are not used to as well. Most beginners feel like a 10 rep set at rpe 8 is actually rpe 10. If you build your mindset to push hard you may realize that you could actually push your average set 5 reps higher. This obviously provides a strong acute stimulus and can lead to strength or hypertrophy gains in the short term. Doing 'true' HIT style for prolonged periods of time can lead to EXTREME burnout, much like some crossfit athletes. I was able to push myself to a point where I almost needed to go to the hospital once or twice. A couple weeks of training like this consecutively you will see that that 10 rep squat or leg press set will not only go down to like 7 reps but it will feel HORRIBLE. Another downside is after any initial gains of increasing strength or rep capacity your muscles don't have the same kind of thickness and glycogen capacity that comes from performing higher volume. You get definition yes but you will end up looking like say, Kinobody. I have been training for 25 years and after HIT I have done both more frequency AND more volume to an extent to keep making gains. The bigger the strength base the more your work capacity increases and ability to handle doing more work. This is of course also related to sleep, job, lifestyle habits but to a point you will have to keep building the 'engine' to eek out more horsepower. Besides Mentzer and Dorian I can't say I have ever seen a natural lifter who has an impressive physique or strength levels as a result of dedicated years of HIT training.
Mike and Dorian did A LOT MORE than one set. Its a gimmick that methead Mike was trying to sell. Imagine one set for legs or one set for back lol.. a lot of people who were around Mike have seen him training very different to what he preached. No professional or serious Bodybuilder trains H.I.T. PERIOD
Thanks Brom. I think the best way to summarise: anybody who says “this is the only way” - irrespective of intensity versus volume they are touting - then run away. Each can have their own place depending on the person, your lifestyle, your athletic goals and some will be better and some will be suboptimal for your current goals (e.g., HIT misses the technique practice is that so needed for powerlifting). I would suggest people try to HIT (warm up sets than one working set to failure with forced reps, rest pause, drop sets etc) for a cycle every now and then as it helps people calibrate their RPE/RIR. I think too many people stop and guess “that was an RPE 8/RIR 2” but in reality it was probably a 5. I tend to go between Sheiko and HIT, depending on what’s going on in my life. HIT cycles allow for me to keep the muscles active while giving my joints a rest. Anyway, thanks once again for your very informative videos. I really love them.
I would just like to say us Mentzer disciples do not only do 1set. It’s more like 4-6 sets for smaller muscle groups and 8-12 for larger. Ideology and philosophy > literal Program (especially later in life program, in contrast the program he ran when he was competing was considered middle of the road volume by todays standards) And the shit works. Look at Jeff Alberts, Ben Howard, AJ Morris, Mitch Jarvis, Mr.America Heart, plus a whole new wave of kids on tiktok. Everything works that’s the beauty of training and the sport. Do what you love and stick with it for a long time. Peace, love and Iron.
In the end of the day, sticking with lifting + genetics is what gets most of the results, much more important than training style. I like high intensity stuff myself but a lot of adepts really sound like zealots.
Actually, the idea of 'better' is simple and childlike. These are all independant stressors that will give different results depending on the individual, what they are conditioned to and how they apply them. If you were going for 'nuanced', you missed the goddamn mark.
@@AlexanderBromley it’s a direct quote from Mentzer himself. You should dive deeper into his content sometime. It seems like you don’t have a complete understanding on his training concepts. Lots of replies of other people backing HIT in the comments on your video. Still you’re right that “BETTER” is subjective, and Mike specifically refers to bodybuilding when it comes to the application of HIT.
@@JacobRothschildMusic 1.) I don't care, it's still a painfully stupid quote. 2.) didn't say it can't work or doesn't, it's the overt lying about the nature of training from people without the experience to make these claims I take issue with, 3.) HIT is not complex, it can be explained on a cocktail napkin, otherwise it wouldn't have the following of this bunch of geniuses. Can you tell me what makes Mentzer such an important authority on training?
At around 15:30 you talk about how gear is held up as allowing being to recover from more allowing for more volume and causing each dose to result in more gains so not much needs to be done to see results. I don't see this as a contradiction, just two ends of the same spectrum. To use the RP terminology, gear increases the max adaptive volume and max recoverable volume through increased recovery in addition to a decreased minimum effective volume through an amplified stimulus. A similar effect happens when anyone enters a caloric surplus.
Btw you attack the guy for being wrong. Most of the latter part of the video is insults like saying he is a charlatan and not intelligent. The guy has videos going through research and breaking it down. Since you claim he nitpicks and that the research you defend is the right one. Why don't you invite him over for a discussion? I feel like it's a great way to see both explaining their ideas and showing their evidence. there's also another guy named Drew Baye. You should challenge him as well.
Oh he has videos breaking down research?? WELL HE MUST BE THE ONLY ONE!! Its not "some" of the research and its not "my" research. Its literally every textbook, every successful coach, every pro athlete, every World Superpower who has recruited and trained Olympic athletes. The foundation of exercise science as an academic field doesn't recognize this as a superior method for size and strength and this jack-off is Cherry picking studies and using it to say its the only way. Thats dumb Ivan. Its really dumb and it makes you an unreasonable person and a charlatan. Thats not an insult, its an evidence based value judgment. JFC you guys are worse than flat earthers.
Mr. Bromley, I just watched this video. I also have watched a few of Jay's videos. John Hart as well. He was Natural Mr. Universe back in the day. I listen to your videos. I listen to Dave Tate, Jim Wendler, Juggernaut, Mark Rippetoe, etc... I am 56. I've been lifting since I was 15. I'd like to think I have seen it all and heard it all. My conclusion is this. It all works if you're consistent. I have never found one program to be particularly better than another. However, what I have found is the psychology changes with programs. In the end, pick a program that both challenges you, and you don't hate. Hating or disliking a program is the death knell to success. On one set to failure. It works. But training to absolute failure on every set is tough, and most can't do it. So clearly, it isn't the best program because there is no best program. Everyone is different. Especially mentally. Good video!
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The reason HIT works for people (and I use the term "works" very losely) is that 90% of gym goers are very lazy and they don't have any concept of RIR. So they used to come to the gym and do 5 useless lazy sets with tons of gas still left on the tank and they didn't progress. Now they come to the gym and instead of 5 useless sets they do 2 useless sets (the warmups) and actually try to go hard on the last set because since they only have one chance to make it work they focus more on it. So effectively they went from 5 useless sets to 1 useful set and they finally see some - not much but still 100% better than before - progress. Obviously they could just learn how to train properly but after 2 decades of experience I realized that 95% of the people will NEVER learn how to train properly no matter what happens because they are allergic to hard work. HIT gives them a simple enough template to follow so that they can still make some progress without having to learn how to train hard and manage fatigue correctly.
I agree with that and there's a reason why Mike said 1 set is enough: it's because it's better to perform more reps whether it is assisted or force, static hold then negative reps-and it's true that people misconcept that those last reps are the most dangerous, but it is the initial reps. When your muscles are getting fatigued, it's warmer, you're more focused and you're using less muscle fibers, and those are slow-twitch type which provides better control and stability.
Personally HIT is the best program I've ever used to make progress. I'm less injured, more motivated, and stronger using this system. That being said I think you need to train 2 to 3x a week to get the proper benefits not 1x a week. 7 days off is just too long. I think 2x a week could be a sweet spot with things like yoga in between on your off days. It's fantastic for martial artists, race car drivers, action sports athletes like skateboarders/skiers, endurance athletes and other athletes where lifting is just an adjacent skill and you don't need to be sore all the time. Slinging heavy weight around 5 to 6 times a week destroyed my body and HIT is fixing it.
I've been lazy as hell and doing a PPL only once a week and I've been seeing more gains than ever before.
This is shorter than the garbage I've been doing before, less problematic on the joints and it leaves so much more time for other things in your life.
You can lift heavy everyday and be just fine. YOU probably had a bad time because of improper load management
@@Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10 who said HIT is light weights? Lmfao as a matter of fact you go as heavy as possible. When i started doing hit i could do 155 pounds on bench for a 2 min set....i can now do 225 for 2 min and 315 for 70 seconds...im trying to get to a 90 seconds by the end of the year. Lets see you put 315 on the bar and do slow 10 second reps for 70 seconds. Your problem is you dont know what volume or load actually is
My 315 for 70 seconds for one set to failure is more volume or load on the muscle than anything youre doing.
@johnsmith keep going bro. Ive trained HIT for almost a decade...i trained volume for over a decade before that. I reached my genetic potential as far as size on volume...BUT....im stronger now on HIT i have way more time, my body looks better on HIT, and i don't hurt all the time.
@@summondominion Yeah im down, i want to start 4 to 6 compounds 3 times a week, 1 warm and 1 10 second set, move on to the next.I have a good foundation of fitness.
Dorian Yates didn't really do just one set. He did "warm up" sets too, and they were actually pretty heavy compared to how other people warmed up
Yeah, they were essentially ramping sets
@@rl00668 yea, ramping, and he did prefatique sets too. It's so misleading lol
The part of HIT people dont seem to get is the intensity. Dorian was basically doing RPE 9-10 on every top set and then he rested for the week. Not everyone can do this, or wants to. You can get your intensity like Dorian, or you can get your intensity with lower weight and more volume, but you need intensity no matter which way you pick. The average gym goer just never learns what intensity is. They want to breeze through a workout and make gains.
@@xenophon598 RPE 10 would be max effort. By doing forced reps, drops sets, and assisted reps Dorian was essentially going beyond RPE 10 a lot of the time. RPE 10 was the minimum.
@@marksifuentes1002 he didnt do "pre fatigue" lol
I've taken the Mentzer plan to the extreme, I've been doing one rep per body part, I'm in and out of the gym in about 30 seconds.
@rubeno.1195 Make sure to rest 1 year between workouts. You may still be overtrained.
You're overtraining
You win 😂
Yeah let's see what you are holding when you are 61. I have 25 years olds asking me for advice. HIT rules. Volume sucks. The words starting to spread now.
another thing to consider for newer lifters is the learning curve for performing exercises properly AKA developing a skill. squats and deadlifts are not that easy to get right!! performing hundreds of sets over time helps build that confidence to really go heavy in the first place.
I've done HIT routines in the past and NEVER got satisfactory results with any of them. The HIT advocates/cult adopt an unfalsifiable position. If HIT seems to work for someone they point to that as validation that it works. When anyone says that they tried it and found it lacking the response is typically “You just didn’t do it right because when done right it always works.”.
Another good example of this is the X3 bar (a form of HIT training using resistance bands) and it’s buffoonish creator John Jaquish. Jaquish actually capitalizes on the cult like behavior that exists within the bubble of the X3/HIT community by encouraging an us vs. them mentality where the X3 users/HIT advocates know the “real truth” about exercise and sneeringly mocks everyone else who is “wasting their time lifting weights” (or doing more than one set) despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary.
My theory as to why there are many HIT Zealots around....Based on Alex's excellent book "Base Strength"!
Future Hit zealot goes to the gym and does your typical, high-volume bodybuilding routine. Future HIT zealot grows and get's stronger because....beginner.
This goes on for months and months. Anytime the gains slow, FHZ simply ups the volume or swaps out some lifts and goes hard, hammering the body with 20-30 sets/bodypart a week.
But then....o wonder! Future HIT Zealot hits a major strength and size plateau (like everyone does, on ANY plan, eventually). His joints hurt. He's not that motivated to train and he's not getting stronger or bigger.
Future HIT Zealot reads up on training and comes accross this contrarian training philosophy that makes huge promises.
Future HIT Zealot switches from a high-volume, "kill every bodypart with 20 sets a week" to a very low-volume approach and....lo' and motherfucking behold....HE GAINS like a newb again!
What happened here?
Well, turns out that HIT Zealot simply built a base of work capacity with the volume training. But after a couple of months his body couldn't keep up with the demands.
His workload accrued so much fatigue, that his fitness (gains) were masked. Hence the platueau and the feelings of "overtraining."
That's exactly where HIT Zealot switched to...well...HIT. And boom! The lower volume gives his body a chance to recover and display the gains, that were worked for on the VOLUME phase.
I've seen this pattern play out time and time again. The thing is, in bodybuilding nobody knows about these programming principles, let alone fitness and fatigue.
I encourage everyone to read Alex's "Base Strength" book. It will help you understand the principles behind programming, thus making you see "the Matrix" of physical training.
Anyway....TLDR.....There's a reason WHY HIT (or low volume training...however you want to call it) works so well...And that is, that you've done VOLUME training leading up to your HIT phase.
Again, read Alex's book. Fuckers.
Getting way quicker gains doing HIT, plus all the issues I was having with tendonitis and chronic fatigue have disappeared because I'm giving my body so much time to recover.
@Mantastic-ho3vm😂
Same. I had more injuries with high volume training
@Mantastic-ho3vm it's been a month, and he never responded. 🤣
@Mantastic-ho3vm 2 -3 warm up sets, which I haven’t changed to this day. Then I would do the heaviest weight possible 1 working set and do a drop set. Id repeat that 5 more times for 1 muscle group training 1.5 hrs a day 5 days a week up to twice a day with naps in between is how I built my foundation. Because I was not recovering in between workout sufficiently I tore my ligament and chest muscle on superset occasions. Id use body moment to swing the weight up like Arnold BIG MISTAKE. Hit involves proper form to failure without compromising form whatsoever. That is why it’s safer cuz it also allows more recovery. If you do hit Monday Wednesday friday. And Monday comes up and your not recovering. Well that’s a sign you need a break to allow proper recovery and growth. So I would allow rest up to Wednesday or whenever my body is ready to train again then continue the 3 days but starting Wednesday. You can’t have have high volume and high intensity. Because both leads to over training. Over training causes joint damage and weak bones. And high cortisol levels which lead to no growth as it inhitbts muscle protein synthesis.
this just means that you never understood how to train properly and eat correctly.
Arthur Jones, Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates gave RECOVERY the space that it needs. I am 58 and the reduced stress on joints and prior injuries makes it the best approach instead of volume. Also, let's not underestimate the TIME that you are getting back. I have plenty to do that bumps a volume approach workout down the to-do list. Now, I can do a workout and immediately put the next workout on the calendar and know that 30 minutes is enough. I also do HIIT sprinting and bike sprinting. I am not a cultist, I just know that for me, this works for the reasons I have given.
Right life's short. If you can get AT LEAST the same results from one 30 minute workout a week. As some doughnut training 6 days a week 2 hours a day. It's a no brainer. HIT RULES for alltime.
I found more success from one set per exercise than standard protocols but that is mainly due to how much easier it was for me to stick with. It has value and merit but it isn't the "only" or even best way. It has just been the best for me.
What exercises do u do?
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines You’re literally in every single HIT video I’ve probably come across, and you’re commenting nonsense under each and everyone. Seek psychiatric help immediately. You’re not big, you’re not strong, and you don’t know what you’re talking about. For someone who keeps calling everyone a liar and demanding “proof” from them, you don’t have a single video of your supposedly impressive physique anywhere on your channel.
If you need a third set on a single exercise what were you doing the first 3 sets?
@@g9992 building up volume for muscle gains.
The guy below you answered your question, which was mathematically wrong to begin with lol. If I'm doing the third set now then how did I do 3 sets first? These Mentzer fanboys are crazy lol. @@g9992
Despite the fact that your blood was boiling I thought your response was delivered in such a measured, thoughtful, common sense way that I took my 3 sets of blood pressure readings while watching your video (all 3 readings were in the “normal” range). I have only recently commenced training with weights to combat age-related sarcopenia and have been getting information from various fitness content channels and now I am going to take a look at some more of your video content. Thanks for posting.
i agree, i don't train with one set because dorian yates does it, i tried because i was sick of high volume, he recommended it, i tried it, i got acceptable results, so i continue to do it, i encourage people to try things on their own and see how they respond. i would recommend it to everyone, and encourage people to test new things out.
There's no 1 set. You do 1 to 2 warm up sets for the big ones like bench and deads. Then one working set to failure. And thats it. No more. Go home rest eat and wait until you are rearing to get back in the gym and feel buff. Not a moment sooner.
Fazlifts did a video on this, and it was excellent. Both Dorian, and Mentzer were getting volume from their warm up sets. They were doing more warm up sets, and those sets were hard sets.
All that is really happening with that is they did their top sets after, while most people do them before.
They were quite literally just going all out on their last set just like hundreds of bodybuilders. Everybody just looks at that last set as the only set.
Biological systems require a consistent signal to adapt volume gets people there very efficiently by supplying that signal more times. This shit shouldn't even be on the table for debate anymore.
Mentzer and Yates made it very clear that their warm up sets were not challenging in the least bit.
In mentzer's heavy duty he advocates for only 1-2 warm up sets. He did do quite a bit of general warm up and stretching, but his high intensity protocol had very few warm up sets (according to his books and video series).
Franco colombo and other contemporaries say that mike and his brother achieved their physiques with multi hour sessions and traditional volume training and not with the HIT protocols that they later advocated.
@@ryanconnolly6703 I was taught by a guy who was taught directly from Dorian in the late 90s. He lived an hour away from where I grew up. Most around here train in that way, or at least most used to in the early 2000s.
Yes while they said that it was 'one top set' that is all very relative. In practice the warm up sets were to or very close to failure (roughly 0-2 RiR in todays terms). However they weren't counted as actual sets and the final set was the 'proper' set which was done to failure, and beyond with forced reps and negatives.
So I know they said that, but what was considered 'challenging' was very relative to the final set.
John Meadows always talked about this as well. The HIT guys did ramping sets up to their failure set, but only counted the failure set as a working set. They actually didn’t train much differently than the volume guys, they just counted their sets differently.
@@ryanconnolly6703 Mentzer was averaging 120 sets per week to failure under Arthur Jones, and in the final two years of his competitive career he cut it to (by his own words) a minimum of 60 sets to failure per week (reading his program he typically did about 90 sets to failure per week, but said he even did even better when he cut to about 60 sets to failure. He also rode his bike up to 120 miles a week). Dorian's programs would put him at around 30-40 sets to failure a week. His last warmups sets on major exercises were pretty hard if we use load and reps to gauge.
I’ve been doing one set training for a couple years now. Been successful in gaining weight, muscle, strength. At first I was doing mostly compounds and full body, so I was leaving a rep or two in the tank. But upon reading about DC training I started using rest pause, and more machines intermixed. Gained even more muscle even in my legs which was surprising. Now I’m doing the “Heavy Duty” experiment and seeing how going to beyond failure and adding rest days according to my body’s needs. So far so good. I’m letting my program write itself based on how my body reacts, and my own time schedule. Most of the people that detract from HIT don’t seem to have ever even tried it for any significant amount of time. Here’s what I know: if you’re getting stronger, over long periods of time, in a slight caloric surplus, then you are building muscle. If you run a program, and you accomplish those metrics of progression, then the program is successful. So far, HIT has been successful for me
I do one warm up set , one failure set on each exercise and can leave the gym after 45 min . it may or may not be the optimal program for me but unless you don't have a job , how can anyone devote 2 hrs a session in the gym ? That's not practical
It is practical but maybe not for everyone. Depends on what kind of job and lifestyle you have. @@iang8169
Any updates?
@@zoybean still doing one set, right now I’m running my split as follows: torso, limbs, full body
At the very moment I am doing just a single set, but I tend to bounce between that and doing a rest pause style with 3 mini sets. I back off if I find that it is taking forever for me to recover, or if my workouts start to get very difficult to power through
The reason for this strange split set up is because it’s my two favorite splits combined, and it allows me to still hit everything 1-2 times per week and also get the benefits of upper lower or full body without some of the drawbacks. Still constantly making PRs and seeing visible improvements, especially now that I’m doing more for my back and legs.
My rest days are usually 2 days between torso, limbs and full body, but after full body that could be 3-4 days. Sometimes I have a lot longer due to work or life or vacation
I did do a split very similar to Dorian Yates for a while but my work life just gets in the way too much to have a 4 day bro ish split
I definitely find I like doing more movements per session than Mike Mentzer laid out in HEAVY DUTY. Especially when it comes to my back since I don’t deadlift. But I used the single working set method for YEARS before I ever tried HIT and it always worked for me
@@AntiGravityResearch2022 I'm going to start HIT on Monday since I plateaued on a regular strength program (possibly because my caloric intake has now become maintenance now that my mass has increased). plan on hitting the gym Monday Wednesday Friday and hopefully upping the cals. The gym I go to always has leg machines occupied so I'll have to modify a few things. I can do weighted pistol squats so I think I'll do those on each leg while assisting with the other leg to really wring the legs out. I will probably modify the split as well once I realize certain things. Nice to hear it's working well for you!
I am currently using HIT a la Jay Vincent describes and I can say that I am on a bro split training each muscle once per week. I am making gains on the weight and/or reps each week which is surprising to me. That being said, I 100% respect the approach taken in this video. Very based response thoroughly covering the topics and making sure everything is apples to apples. No one brings up the fact that Dorian (and Mentzer) trained with heavier loads with nasty grindy all-out reps. That is NOT how Jay recommends to train. Jay is definitely a Henneman Size principle guy which makes sense scientifically. Now that being said, I am not sure if this is all optimal. What I do know for sure it is safe and I have no pretentions of winning strongman records I just want to reach my own genetic potential. I do not care how much weight is on the bar.
Update: 9 weeks in, I'm up 5 pounds from starting weight. I have changed nothing else about my diet protocol, still eating only 2 meals a day, no protein shakes, pills, powders, or PED's. Zero self induced injuries and no aches or pains. Will continue this for a while.
@@drewmorg. Congratulations! That is fantastic. you know what Mike Mentzer used to say... Take your base kcals, what you need to maintain your current weight (all things included) to get your basal metabolic rate, and then if you are super optimistic to think you will gain 30lbs of lean muscle in a single year, add just shy of 50 kcals daily to that. He said, even go crazy, add in 250 extra (six times his suggestion that he knows worked for him and his many many clients natural and enhanced). It doesn't matter when you take them in as long as you have energy to put out maximum effort.
I'm so glad to hear of your success! It is really a breath of fresh air to hear someone training naturally again (I can't talk, I went to the dark side a bit early in life while still doing insane high volume to be able to do even higher volume... And it made my physique not much better outside the initial gains until I incorporated principles of heavy duty and "Blood and Guts" training). So a very big congrats, and I wish you so well on your progress buddy! Please, let me know how you are doing in a couple more months and if you want to chat on a better app than YT comment sections lemme know and I'll give you my email and provide you there with my diff contact info.
Congrats man. I've just started HIT Jay vincent style. I can see how it works, it makes sense. Im excited by the poential results. Other youtubers swear by slow HIT. Bulldogmindset is a big youtuber who converted to HIT and endorses Jay vincent 100%.
Drew Baye has an awesome channel on HIT also.
Well put. Jay was my coach when he lived in upstate NY. All I know is I struggled for years doing the 5-6 days per week, 60-75 minute workouts with the split between "strength days" and "cardio days," and then I started doing HIT...and suddenly I am in better shape now than I was at 26. (I am 46 now.)
@@tatuco8 I watch both. It's finally gaining some traction. I remember trying HIT back when I was 18 after making all of my newbie gains on normal volume training for 6 months or so. My results slowed down probably from overtraining and genetic limitations, I am not a big guy and don't ever think I will be. When you're 18 though and gain 30 pounds of muscle in 3-4 months, you kind of assume it will keep going. HIT from Heavy Duty did not get me any special results so I went back to full body training and hitting body parts multiple times per week chronically overtrained condition for over 15 years. I have not made any new gains in that time pretty much until I went back to HIT like Jay teaches.
I will cycle HIT periodically in my routine. It is another tool in your drawer.
When competing in the late 80s in BB I used HIT (not Dorian’s level) but drop sets and lots of super sets. My workouts took about an hour, and I won my third show. I also had good success in using conjugate and strongman in the early 2000s.
I want to see your prime physique now
The earlier HIT version by Mike Mentzer has lots of supersets, he said it is designed for those with good to excellent recovery ability. He then realized that it is too much for the average of his clients, that's why he reduced the volume.
ua-cam.com/video/OQHlDLzvjy8/v-deo.htmlsi=Haz7gWrFns_HK4tu this is the routine.
@@mrkrabskraps7085
My physique is very good now. I can still compete and do well if I wanted. No joint issues to this day.
Since January I’ve been working out at planet fitness and have been doing Mike Mentzers workout that you can find here on UA-cam. I do chest/triceps, rest 4 days then do back/shoulders/biceps, rest 4 days and do legs. Then restart the program. The same workout, every time, I don’t even count reps even though Mike was very outspoken about keeping a log of your reps. I have gone from 150 to 175 in 8 1/2 months! And am now close to maxing every machine there. I super set every exercise. I also get about 5 hours of sleep and I’ve not payed attention to my diet at all. HIT absolutely works
Training one set to failure on select lifts over the course of the week, isn't in and of itself a bad thing. It needs to be taken as a part of an overall program. The warm up and back off sets on the day of, plus a volume routine with that lift or an associated lift on an off day.
I do two sets per exercise, two exercises per muscle groups. It has worked great for me. Less sets force me to push each one. I do single set training during Ramadan to avoid sweating too much.
Hey bro hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢
And happy ramadan❤
@ahmed mido , My bodybuilding program was six days: Day 1-Legs, Day 2-Back, Day 3-Chest, repeat, rest on Sunday. I do a big compound for each muscle group, followed by a smaller isolation (IE: RDL, Squat, Glute Bridge, BSS)
The funniest part about that Jay Vincent guy is he posts “testimonials” every few days that are literally just a wall of text that he could have typed up himself. It’s ofcourse always about how the person used HIT training and gained 15 pounds of muscle in just 3 weeks lmao.
I see HIT isn't that Good ?
His latest hype is a client losing a total of 4 pounds in only 2 months! :)
Doing HIT is the best decision i’ve ever made
The best decision you ever made was deciding to lift!
@@MrDeanmfitz whatever, hit works and is working for him !
Same here!
@@MrDeanmfitz hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢
@@andrewtanczyk4009 hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢
So I watched a few of Jay's videos...
And here are some misconceptions that some people think about his training method...
He doesn't recommend powerlifters Olympic lifters train like this unless in their off season to help give their joints a break...
He also recommends drop sets or a second working set I you haven't achieved actual failure with your first set...
Anyone who has done super squats knows what can be achieved with one set too...
I hope this helps
Had 3 high intensity workouts in my 1st year. Failed me in my second year after realizing it’s limitations in expanding overall work accumulation. You’d be burnt out and under practiced. Performance skyrocketed after addressing weaknesses ( higher volume & progression through controlled effort vs high intensity and go all out)
Agreed. I've had much more success training less intensely but more frequently.
My only contention is that most people arguing for RPE/RIR have a background in strength sport where it is FAR easier to get a good estimate of RIR in those low rep sets. Once you're doing stuff > 8 reps per set, I feel like it is just ridiculously hard to get that RIR estimate right. Maybe its just me.
I’m with you. This whole RPE business is really just guessing at those rep ranges. It’s much more objective training with higher percentages of your 1 RM.
Yeah. It's harder to guess to guess RPE in the higher rep ranges for me as well.
I'm fucking confused
I mean not really, If you don't how many reps to have for a certain weight, just go t failure on your first set, then in the following sets you'll know exactly where to stop
From what I understand on why no one uses HIT and it not being popular is simply as even Mentzer said "it's just too hard to do sustainably for most" or something along those lines. As someone who tried HIT and did it for a month, I can attest it develops PTSD like response to the psychological system as it is very demanding of focus and intensity. Albeit the main mistake I made was trying to do it almost like a regular exercise by doing it more than 2 times a week. Granted personally it is the best out of all in my 20 years of lifting experience. Not only do you have to go to the gym once a week/every 2 weeks, the gains are long lasting and keep building long after the exercise. Not to mention you put on a lot of mass fast. The one key aspect to take away from HIT that Jay and his interview with Drew was the intensity. You are trying to reach peak intensity of your muscle to get the result. So if you are doing it through multiple reps by spending 4 hours a day to get it finally versus 20 minutes then that's what it is or how you are built I guess or w/e. In which case sucks for you that you have to spend quarter of a day for 4-5 days a week trying to get muscle growth. It's important to get that intensity in the shortest time possible to get the most out of the growth.
hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢
Agree. Excellent comment. Mentzer is up front about the relationship of results to intensity plus the genetic factor and outside variables like steroids and hormones that help the competitive bodybuilder but the average Joe isn’t looking for a freakish physique just the freakish results .
@@ahmedmido-pb8fi
Just search High Intensity Training Program on UA-cam and you’ll see many videos of Mentzer’s workouts. Just know his earlier workouts are those where he trained 3-4 times a week but as he monitored his clients he realized results are better on workouts with at the very least 4 days off. And after a cycle of three 4 day workouts he recommends working out with 5-6 days of rest depending on your results. Good luck
HIT is a very easy way to train.
I don’t do HIT traditionally, but I do much lower volumes. 4 sets per muscle per week, split between 2 full body workouts.
I like to train to failure. Remember, the best training style is the one you will be consistent with.
That sounds like my workout, I'm a former HIT advocate and will return to it one day maybe.
you can keep your 3 to 4 or 5 set training a muscle 2 to 3 times a week , 1 set does me better I've noticed it helping me to grow, more is not better, it only takes me 30 minutes to do my workout, all the sets I was doing I realized I was overtrained after going to the 1 set program 3 times a week after I had rested for a week before starting the 1 set program my joints began to show me the hidden aches that were unaware and didn't come to light till after I quit the 3 to 4 set program ! personally I have better things to do than babysit and nurse hurting and plagued joint problems from 2 many sets, 1 set maybe 2 if I feel like I didn't go to failure on the first set, then rest the muscle for at least 4- 7 days before I work it again, I believe this is best for anyone older or a beginner!
A beginner? Absolutely not. MM himself said HIT is best reserved for people who already have a considerable amount of muscle mass.
I need week off as wekk. My joints dint recover like they ised to. Even 4 days off is pushing it for ne. I just hate waiting 7 days between workouts
One could also argue that Dorian got injured because he at times was using explosive movements during training just like you said he did. Which the more modern approach to HIT is using strict form with a slow cadence until failure which would help negate injury. Also, Yates has said the times he got injured was because he was preparing for shows and was to lean and dehydrated while still trying to push heavy weight to build muscle, when he should have just been trying to maintain what he already had and keep conditioning himself for the show.
My best gains came from 5-3-1 style workouts. Whatever style you use, just make sure to track it so know you are maintaining progressive overload and celebrate your progress along the way.
this
The only reason I have ever done 1 working set to failure. Is when time was an issue and I didn't have time even really warm up. I just wanted to get something in to not waste a day. Can't say if it could be effective. It was more a mental thing to feel like I did something.
Same here bro
I forget the exact number but there’s a study that suggests you can maintain strength and muscle mass with just 20% of usual volume.
um.... 1 working set requires a tremendous amount of warming up lol
@@joshuapeek9555 not a tremendous amount , the bare minimum works just fine .
This dude charges $2,500 a month for coaching and is definitely not a charlatan. Nope. Nothing to see here.
And he totally built his body completely naturally using two 15 minute workouts per week. Everyone else is doing it wrong and only he has discovered the truth. He’s basically Neo from the Matrix bro.
@@aneetpatel8819 who's that?
LOL. The sarcasm
Everything you said and what was shown by these HIT only people I've experience also, it is quite strange talking to these Arthur Jones & Mentzer Myrmidons! They conclude erroneously that HIT is the absolute BEST for muscle size and even strength! I remember talking with one who insisted I should do HIT training to get stronger at Powerlifting! I then responded "why do you think then that powerlifter, olympic lifters or any strength athlete doesn't train that way?" He responded that they don't know enough and haven't looked at the research!
He was the Manager of a Gym called Bodytech in Auckland that use to have all trainers doing HIT only style training on clients, cultish to say the least!
In my opinion, everyone should try an HIT Training system like DC Training once in their life. The reason being is learning how to train very hard and adding load while training at RPE9-10 at all time. You can only go RIR3 if you know absolute RIR0. People trash themselves with very high volume but are not getting any gains because they are saving themselves too much so they can survive the insane volume. Quality first, quantity second.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines lol your intentions and biases are clear, embarrassing
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines that's a lot of assumptions you just made and none of them are true.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines you make up things about me and I have to prove you wrong.. ok buddy
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines kid.
I’ve run HIT. Worked great for me. Better than multiple hard sets? No, but probably equal and in less time. It makes no sense at all for competition lifting, only for muscle hypertrophy
1 set for every man, woman & child in existence for every exercise for all goals - this is also apparently the best scientific, anecdotal and evidence based approach 🤣 Amazing how it's all so simple! Take notes Schoenfeld 🤣🤣/s
On a serious note I think this is actually a really interesting case study of human belief systems, as HIT Jedis also seem to share quite a lot in common with other fringe groups...
I didnt even get into the 21 conference thing....
@@AlexanderBromley haha, I'm going to add my own rage in solidarity to yours next week with my input on this topic 😀
Yeah huge red flag when someone claims that everyone else is wrong and they have discovered some ultimate truth. Anti vaxers, flat earthers, HIT jedis, it’s all the same crap. Ignoring all of the evidence and just clinging onto radical ideas.
HIT works well with accessories for me. Main lifts need more practice though, Jay actually talks about that quite a bit in some of his videos, I’ve heard him say that at least 2-3 times.
Especially skill based lifts like squats
@@AlexanderBromley That 21 conference is insane. Dudes literally preach about how women should be slaves to their husband, not be allowed to work and only be baby makers. So gross.
I’ve been a competitive powerlifter for 14 years, but I have always been attracted to HIT philosophy since Dorian Yates was Mr. Olympia (before I even started lifting for real). I wished HIT worked for strength. 😄 But since I don’t have any competitions on the horizon, and time has been very tight for me in recent months, I’ve been training that way lately. I think it’s viable for muscle building, but under one condition: you MUST push yourself beyond your initial threshold for “failure”. I think that’s why it worked for Dorian, and why DC seems to work well. If you can get another rep or 2 after a 20 second rest, then that first “fail” didn’t empty the tank.
This has always been my opinion. I think true HIT works, but that the vast majority of people don't teach that "true failure" to hit the trigger. There's a certain mind-muscle connection needed. "Whew I'm beat" isn't the same as mentzer's theoretical "every fiber is exhausted."
Why is no one mentioning the drugs. Because with enough steroids, you can grow on ZERO sets per week :D So sure one set per week works.
HIT works for muscular strength just as well as(maybe even more) than powerlifting training. But the thing is powerlifting is not just about muscular strength. The neurological adaptations to benchpress squat deadlift is tremendously important when you lift heavy, so you have to practice a lot of them to develop that. Think of it this way, someone could have extremely powerful chest and triceps, but never bench pressed in his life. His bench press would be equal to an intermediate gymgoers bench.
What worked for Dorian and Mentzer was that they injected lots of PEDs. That alone invalidates them as examples for naturals.
HIT has worked for me as a bodybuilder: I usually get one more rep than the previous week. When 10 reps are achieved I add 5lbs and then the new target is 6-7 reps. I appreciate that powerlifters have to do things like 5x3, 8x2 etc.
@@oldskoolbodybuildingroutin7178Mam you are a big ass HIT hater I see, what about if you just try it for a month? But like really try it in an optimistic way?
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Dorian Yates proved the validity of HIT by beating all those Volume Training niggers six years in a row( Dillet, Ray, Cormier Wheeler, Levrone). As for myself, what do you want me to do? Shall I Fed Ex you my training journal?
@@oldskoolbodybuildingroutin7178why are you so mad lmfao
@@sophiejervis169 hi gorgeous
I have tried training like Dorian did and although it was extremely fun I could not recover from it. After roughly two weeks I could barely sleep and had to back off. I think it can absolutely be helpful as a tool in the toolbox. A lot of people get good results from HIT.
The bro In his car is hilarious
Jay Vincent ? Who ?
Jay vincent is an angry hit worshipper who exudes cockiness
In a car you’ll never be able to afford ;)
It’s not that jay is aggressive in opinions at all, his opinions are based on factual research and proof driven studies so why wouldn’t you listen to him?
@@JayVincentFitness wow good 1
I am not a competitor, or a bodybuilder, or anything of that nature. Im just a guy that goes to the gym. I can tell you without hesitation that the 1 set to failure approach has given me better results than any other system. I follow Mike Mentzer's approach (different than Jay's). I am by NO MEANS the bar to be measured from, so take this for what it is worth.
The one thing people dont seem to grasp with HIT is that it is the same amount of time under tension as people who do 3-4 sets of faster rep systems. 5 seconds up, hold at full contraction, 5 seconds down for 8 reps is 80 seconds of time under tension if you do 10 reps at an average of 2 seconds of contraction (which is about average) throughout 4 sets, its the same amount of time under tension, just condensed into one hellish set. SO the volume is still there, it just isnt spread out.
Interesting
Remember how Kevin Levrone went from not working out to top level Olympia competitor in a few months with PEDs? That was crazy to see. Guys like Dorian and Kevin would look huge and ripped even if they swapped training routines. The genetics, diet, and ability to survive truck loads of PEDs (hgh, slin, testosterone, diuretics, etc.) go a long way. I have trained with 5 top level drug tested bodybuilders including Phillip Ricardo Jr. and 2 teen national bodybuilding champions. We weren't using HIT.
What did you and Philip Ricardo Jr do when you trained?
@@shrexyboi1850 not HIT
There are tons of national level winning natural bodybuilders who have used HIT including John Heart and Ian Duckett.
If you do 5x5 at a 2/1/4 cadence thats 175 seconds under load (35 seconds per set)
If, eg, you pick a weight such that you can complete 25 reps at that cadence, and do 5 sets of 5 with rest in between instead, is that the same amount of stimulation? Obviously, if you rest between sets you recover.
Therefore, the rest in between sets allows for a higher amount of weight in each set.
But even then. The weight you can do 5 sets of 5 for is a weight you can move for 35 seconds, 5 times, with a rest of unspecified amount in between.
EG - if you can complete 5x5 with 2 minutes rest in between are you as strong as someone who can do the same weight with 30 seconds rest? I think not!
At what point do you reach muscular failure in this paradigm? What about progression? Should you be aiming to be able to complete the time under load? Do you just shorten rest periods?
Increase load such that you can't manage 5x5? Therefore, you end up with less time under load during your sets.
So I look at it like one of two ways - a single set of 25 reps with that cadence is going to have to be light weight (not stimulating)
If you increase the rest period between sets such that you can actually complete the sets, you're going to be recovering enough that you aren't really stimulating the muscles.
I tried both ways - increasing rest periods, and lowering weight, neither seem that effective. The main benefit of HIT is the strict adherence to an actual time under load. A single set to concentric failure aiming at 80-90 seconds under load is just easier to target and progress from, that's all.
Functionally when I looked at how I was progressing using multiple sets I realised that the progression was much the same, but doing a single set to failure just took less actual time, and I could achieve the same relative stimulus with less weight (less injury). That's about it. I was originally a "heavy weight low reps" believer, but my shoulder and spine..... disagrees with this approach lol.
Really the majority of the contention is the difference between "reaching muscular failure" and "not training to failure/ RIR" paradigms. (It's safer to joints etc reach muscular failure with less weight.)
But how many reps of unladen bicep curls can you do before failure? :D
Have tried it all, and for me, volume is king
sets or frequency?
@jmgonzales7701 overall sets seem to be the biggest driver of growth for me, higher frequency than twice a week can only work for a handful of muscles ie. Delts, forearms, and Calves.
@@DrRRaza what if you train full body 5 x a day but u mitigate the load?
@jmgonzales7701 yeah you could do that , however for me, I find it hard to autoregulate. Ie I'll go too hard on let's say squats, my legs, knees, and back will be sore and because my program says I need to do let's say 2 more sets of squats, I'll do them and risk injury. So I've found it best to limit frequency to 2 times per week and keep my volume somewhere in the MAV range, having higher volumes on lagging muscles.
@@DrRRaza i do 10 sets per week per exercise and im very short on time plus i do martial arts. So currently im doing 2 sets per exercise then i build to 10 sets by the end of friday.
There is no verification on how mentzers, Yates, or Vincent trained. The late Frank columbo said that the mentzers trained like everybody else. He said Ray mentzer spent more time in the gym than he did (columbo). Bodybuilder Lee priest saw Dorian Yates trained and said he trained like everyone else. May be the motivation for seling the new technique is to sell books or UA-cam time. Bodybuilders need to make money when they retire.
Seen a lot of guys who did Dorian training and get great results i did to. However adding volume and not training so hard worked much much better for me. Thats what every great bodybuilder I ever met did.
Is this high intensity?
Decline press - 135x12, 200x8, 265x8, 285x5, 310x3
Incline press - 245x7, 235x5, 225x4
Incline flys - 66x8, 66x6
Bentover rows - 135x10, 250x6, 250x 7, 230x6, 220x6
Pulldowns - 180x7, 190x5,
Barbell shrug - 220x8, 220x8
That’s pyramid and straight set training. It’s not hit. Been looking at Dorian Yates early journals?
@@markhayden886 Thats Dorian Yates program from his journals
@@jasonsever2031 Thought so.
Comment section proving Alex just how much of a cult HIT is 🤣 🤣
These can't handle 10x10 per muscle workouts
he has 0 logic and has tunnel vision on most of his claims
@@mr.greenwi3177 bill pearl and Larry scott never thought of set to failure
@@garrettcole2251 because those were in the 50s-60s. they excersize science wasnt really developed and meant much
@@mr.greenwi3177 distorted view because they can be that stupid of what failure felt back then. Failure is just a high effort threshold of a exercise.
Great video. I think people can really gravitate toward "esoteric" ideas and high intensity advocates certainly exaggerate the idea that it's some forbidden training technique that the volume establishment is trying to cover up.
I have used mentzer style training when I had some serious time constraints and it really refreshed my training. It was a lot of fun, but I didn't discover fire and suddenly make more progress with less time with the magic of HIT.
It's amazing the conviction these self proclaimed experts speak with. In a few years history will have already forgotten them and they'll be onto their next internet marketing scheme.
Omg and it's even worse in the comments section!! So many people swear by MM's program but then when they actually spell out their program for you, its not even MM's program. At best, its a modified version of it. I think the bodies i see at my gym and the routines those guys are doing to achieve those bodies, speak for themselves - no matter how much people wanna hide behind a smart device and claim they are getting the best results of their lives doing HIT. And i call total bullshit that these people are actually even going to all out failure the way guys like Mike and Dorian did.
Here's a parallel: I'm a guitar player. I follow many self proclaimed 'guitar teachers' on UA-cam and always skim the comments. One of the most common things new players wanna get good at quick is learn how to play/pick really fast. The comments section never ever fails to be plastered with comments that say "teacher A is so much better than teacher B and my progress shows that!" BUT....ever so interestingly enough, when i or anybody asks them to demonstrate via a short video clip of their progress or how much "skill" they've supposedly acquired, they show nothing. They prove nothing. Its always empty claims. It will never ever make sense to me. Why lie to yourself? Why lie to strangers on the Internet? What's the payoff? More importantly, why the fuck am I still typing this fucking book out??? Jesus ever since i switched to HIT I've just got nothing but time on my hands and i don't know what to do about it other than project my first world gripes with workout programs and guitar teachers on UA-cam.
Aaaaaanyway.... What were we talking about again??
Dorian was self-admittedly inspired by Mentzer’s training routines, but his own training was different in many important ways:
Dorian in his prime trained a four-day split with 2 days on, 1 day off, then repeat. Each muscle group was therefore trained once every SIX DAYS, much more frequently than Mike recommended, and actually more frequently than the average bro/pro standard of 7. This is often completely ignored by H.I.T. advocates, who defer to Dorian as a proof of concept of Mentzer’s training principles.
Sure, he was on steroids, but if 10-14 days was so superior, why didn’t he wait more days? Wouldn’t that be more optimal, allowing for greater growth? That was seemingly how long Mike would advocate. Dorian was meticulous in his data collecting, so it’s likely he didn’t stumble on the 6-day recovery period by accident. It’s more likely he tried longer and shorter periods and found 6 to be optimal.
Dorian did around 3 exercises per body part. This is more than Mike advocated, which was 1 or 2 at the very most. He also did a significant amount of volume during his “warm ups”, which were discounted when tallying up his training sets. So that’s 3 top sets per body part every 6 days. While it’s in no means a high-volume routine, it’s a lot more reasonable and significantly more volume and frequency than Mentzer prescribed in his most popular routines.
If you watch Dorian warm up for incline bench in his Blood and Goods training DVD, this volume is not inconsequential in building muscle when considering the load used. Most powerlifters would argue that he’s doing TOO MUCH volume during the warmups, fatiguing him for the supposed single set that matters.
Dorian lowered weights slowly - the eccentric portion of a rep - then lifted them quickly during the raising or concentric portion. If you watch videos of Dorian training people bench pressing, for example, he asks them to imagine a coiled spring being compressed, then forcefully pressing the weight up. This goes against what Mike says, which is essentially “slow is better”.
This is also why you see most people training in Mentzer’s style lifting very unimpressive weights. Sure, getting to Dorian’s weights is not possible drug-free, but the average Mentzer fanboy fiddles around with novice and beginner weights in perpetuity. Rather than trying to lifting weights slowly during the concentric portion, most lifters would be better off trying to become stronger and eventually the load of the weights will take care of that itself.
Dorian used a mix of free weights and machines, saying that it's about the right tools for the job. This is why he favoured leg press over squats during his professional career, despite Tom Platz being his idol and Tom of course was a huge squat lover. Mike was a huge proponent of machines, claiming them to be superior to be free weights due to their more advanced origin.
If you see the footage of Mike training his disciple Markus Reinhart on UA-cam, the only free weights exercise he makes him do is deadlifts, which he uses a whopping 315lbs with. If Mike's training is so focused on strength gains, how come a steroid using bodybuilder can't deadlift more than 315lbs for their top set? Sure, Mentzer’s training is primarily focused on muscle growth rather than strength from neurological adaption and Markus is made to lift slowly, but 315 is nothing an enhanced lifter should be using.
Dorian did cardio, specifically LISS cardio, to help strip off bodyfat and help improve recovery between days of weights. He also stretched, as you can see in the Blood and Guts leg day training. Mike would latterly claim that cardio and stretching was not only waste of time, but hurtful for muscle gains. As we now know, once you are carrying high amounts of muscle, it’s important to do some level of cardio, even if this is just brisk walking.
Most importantly of all, Dorian has admitted that someone can’t train all-out all the time and that he did, in fact, deload. He would go lighter for 2 to 3 weeks, then go through 5 to 6 weeks cycles of pushing the limit. This is a huge difference to Mike’s training philosophy. Mike himself often stated that if you weren’t progressing every session, you weren’t training correctly and more rest days was the answer.
ua-cam.com/video/IN4isF-xXVQ/v-deo.html&ab_channel=HighIntensityBusiness
Mentzer’s fans often claim that Dorian’s career-ending injuries were due to “bad form”, using too much momentum. I find this hilarious, because they also want to use Dorian as an example of H.I.T. working. So, which is it? Is he the golden boy? Or a bad disciple? The reality is that the extremes that Dorian pushed himself to unsustainable.
It doesn’t matter how good your form is. If you’re trying to be as big and lean as Dorian was, you can only keep that up for so long, just like any athlete at the top of their sport. You’re talking about a man who was underhand barbell rowing and benching in the mid-400lbs range and leg pressing over 1,200lbs. How long do you think you can keep that up? Whenever an H.I.T. disciple pipes up about Dorian using bad form, they nearly always have physiques that are somewhere between unremarkable and unimpressive. And, of course, zero Mr. Olympia medals for themselves or their trainees. Their finding fault with Dorian’s training is classic armchair thinking.
So, while Dorian was inspired by Mentzer, his training was different in many important ways. It is disingenuous to say Dorian’s success is proof that Mentzer’s H.I.T. works as prescribed.
It is also worth noting that Dorian retired at 35, which is young by bodybuilding standards. He himself admitted that training to failure and beyond with intensity techniques close to a contest is what resulted in his worst injuries, further supporting that some sort of periodisation is what’s required for long-term success.
I tried hit this week. I even bought Jay’s program. My workout was ok. I think to get the most out of this one would need a coach or partner to help you do forced reps. I had to resort to drop sets and still had a hard time getting to “absolute failure”. I expected to be sore the next day, but wasn’t even though the single set was intense. How am I suppose to determine this? With volume training you are getting a continuous stimulus. I also don’t feel like one exercise fully covered a muscle group. I did a machine ohp and felt my delta working, but my traps definitely were unfazed. So at the very least this method definitely will require customizing. For me and I think most people, volume training is better.
Jay is a con man
HIt works really good. You have to go all in! I do I get so sore and cramps like never before gaining muscle! I stick to 2 sets one warm up and other working set!
Are you still doing hit
@@gregpettis1113 No. I’m doing volume 5-6 days a week.PPL
Well here is my experience, I was doing 5/3/1 but I didn't know what I was doing at first and didn't use boring but big part of it, that basically means 1 heavy set to failure and that's it. Well shit, hit the wall faster than a 2019 crypto investor. Started doing BBB which upped the volume and made me do all of the big 4 twice a week, I fuckin started to PR all over the place after one cycle(4 weeks). This is where I saw that volume can drive strength like a MFer...
Mr América Heart, John Heart ia also a proponent of HIT but he has a more open mind. He says that if you want to get as strong as possible you should learn from powerlifters.
True
I wonder how muscle damage and recovery physically and metabolically. Are muscles more elastic or more plastic? If they are more elastic like a band which tears at a maximum intensity stretch and cant be torn further after that, intensity is very plausible to be the best aproach. If damaging the muscle is like scraping incremental damage into the muscle the volume aproach is more plausible. I just cant find anything about it accept that muscles are fibrous and tense
I like H.I.T but I have always responded well to all out set to failure. Do keep in mind I have done 3-5 warm up sets before that 1 all out set and train my body twice in a week with every 5th week being a deload. It really comes down to what works for you.
I was never impressed with the Dorian Yates blood and guts thing. I've gone to failure and beyond many times. I love doing it, regardless of if it's "optimal" or not. It gets me high basically. Always in a better mood after. But I've never had to scream my head off like I was being stabbed. I've always felt like he was hamming it up for the camera. You'd think he was trying to lift a car off someone being that dramatic but turns out it was just a set of 8 on preacher curls. Dork.
Dorian didn't even train that hard. On some exercises he didn't even go to failure so how's that hit? It's not. Reality is he never did hit. He trained like most pro's using plenty of sets and exercises.
Dudes will look in the camera so matter of fact and just tell you something they think they know “you’re doing it wrong” … and the unspoken part is “and im doing it right because i ‘know’ something everyone else doesnt” and meanwhile they are just wrong the whole time 😂
Story of my life lol
The Dunning Kruger effect 👌
If you follow Mikes advice of using:
A. Heavy Weight
B. A 4-2-4 cadence (positive, static, and negative motion)
C. Train to absolute failure, which, if you dont have a spotter or partner, would be failure on the positive (lifting the weight)
Then i can assure you that you will reach a level of fatigue that is unbeknownst to you. That you wont go back to the gym for 4/5 days, not because he said so, but because you physically cant/ dont want to. And in that time of recovery, one should focus on diet and nutrition to give the body what it needs to recover.
Yeah I’m not waiting 4-5 days to go back to the gym after a work out. I just can’t see the body needing almost a week to recover from a work out.
I do chest-tri, Back-bi, legs, rest day then repeat (I’ll do abs one one of those days). I average 2-3 days of rest for each set of muscles and I’ve been crushing PRs every time with training each muscle set twice a week. Doing around 18 sets each work out spending a little under an hour and a half in the gym
If HIT works for someone then they should do it, but I feel like waiting 4-5 days is wasting time and way more than enough rest
This reminds me a little bit of the Bulgarian method and help although it’s absolutely amazing methodology 99% of the population would just fail at it. And yet, especially in CrossFit gyms where they don’t even really know how to lift people like to throw it around like it’s the ultimate secret. Yeah it’s the ultimate secret to injuries and failure to mastering or even honing in the technical aspects of lifts.
@@terminator_405 a former coach of mine was Max Aita who trained under Abadjiev. I meet Max at Cal strength and followed him when he opened his own gym behind CrossFit Oakland. To make it perfectly clear I never did Bulgarian because well weightlifting never paid my bills. Lol. But I would get CrossFitters talking to me and telling me that they we’re going to do Bulgarian on top of their workouts. Which they never did. But anyway that’s why I made the comment. Yeah I value my life to much and my health to try these fad extreme workouts. But that doesn’t mean I don’t admire some of them. I just think it’s. “Silly” when people recommend them or Bragg about doing them. 👍🏼
I've trained people using hit principals. A common protocol for me was to use one set per exercise and three exercises per muscle group, but two drop sets would be performed at the end to simulate a manual overload which I observed Yates so effectively using.
Pick a weight you can manage 6-8 reps with and do that to technical failure, then immediately switch to a weight which is 70% of the working set weight and after that to a weight which is 50% of the working weight, take all three to technical failure. Weight is increased when you can do 8 reps in the first set.
Drop sets are volume, not hit. 😂
Plus Yates rarely did drop sets. He did back off sets at times. A better way is to do triangle pyramids sets or ramps. Simple concept. Start at 70% of top weight for the first set and fo 8 to 10 reps. Second set do 90% of top weight for another 8 to 10 reps. Do top weight for 8 to 10 to near failure on the third set then follow that with 90% of top weight followed by 70% of top weight.
Set 1 70% of top weight
Set 2 90% of top weight
Set 3 top weight to near failure
Set 4 90% of top weight to near failure
Set 5 70% of top weight to near failure
Better than drop sets and more volume.
The biggest issue with Jay Vincent and Drew Baye isn't that they promote training to failure, but they insist on using very slow repetitions with very submaximal rates for at least 60 seconds of continuous tension. In addition, neither of them will ever respond to hard questions or comments out in the open, but instead, ask you to pay to subscribe to their personal forums if you want to ask any real questions.
Baye and Vincent both believe in avoiding training in the stretch range, or using the stretch reflex when reversing directions, and in avoiding high peak forces. People who don't train in the stretch range or with some degree of controlled ballistic tempo end up getting injuries in the real world. Furthermore, no one ever got huge (natural, PED user, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s+) from doing slow repetitions.
If you’d train a 90 years old person how would you train him/her… and why ?
@@martonbalogh3760 Most older people, if they die in accidents or fires die because they aren't strong enough to get off the floor, drag themselves up a flight of stairs if they break a leg, or hop down from a 3 foot height without ripping up their knees. Strength in the stretch position, and the ability to handle sudden onset of ballistic forces from falls or car accidents etc. are much more likely to increase survival. I would want someone to be able to lower themselves into a DEEP squat where they are not in an ideal biomechanical position, and be able to stand up, or to be able to drop quickly into a deep squat and absorb that force. I'd probably prescribe deep doorknob squats like this (but as deep as possible): ua-cam.com/users/shortsSOwW6Qvt7TA
Also pushups to a kneel.
If a senior (or anyone) doesn't practice deep stretched controlled ballistic movements for the knees and hips they will be seriously injured when they are forced into those situations.
@@mertonhirsch4734 What I meant was - Would you let an older person do reps fast in the powerlifting manner with high volume or very slow, light weight reputation till safely reaching muscle failure?
@@martonbalogh3760 Slow reps alone are not a problem. Avoiding the fully extended position IS a problem because that is where most real injuries occur, so there should be an attempt to get strong in "weak" positions. If you strengthen your muscles in the midrange they will be strong enough to injure you in the end-ranges. Also, end range training remodels joints over time and if you avoid the end ranges your joints lose stability in the end ranges. Slow is OK, but I would also introduce "mildly" ballistic reversals from the extended range. Going to failure is not a problem, but may not be necessary.
Yes, 100%. Elderly clients respond much much better to strength specific work at higher percentages (as Andy Baker says, 90% to an untrained 70 year old is taking out the trash). They can sustain hard efforts better than everyone else, they don't fall apart like people think.. The neurological changes emphasize strength, which directly correlates to quality of life, and all of that promotes muscle and bone density. Outcomes with the elderly training 'heavy' are considered exceptional by anyone in that field
I totally understand your point and, I was thinking exactly the same way but the difference it’s that I tried it and went from 7h per week to two 15 minutes splits workouts per week and I did get stronger and I have way more energy and gained 10 pounds after 6 months doing it after being stuck on a Plato for years!!! So , I suggest you try it before judging it! I totally understand that it’s sounds way too good to be true but it works!!! And the key is to get to momentary muscle failure
"Volume of exercise is, in and of itself, a negative factor in the growth process." Arthur Jones was correct. The goal is to get in, stimulate the growth mechanism with as few sets as possible, and get the hell out of the gym, eat, rest, recover, and GROW. It works for me!
hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢
It is undeniable that as the intensity goes up volume has to come down and vice versa. What is arguable is if you really need only one set to failure which is not being able to do another concentric repetition in the prescribed form. And Jay Vincent isn't necessarily saying that in every case you need only one set. Go watch his video about body by science community. Maybe you aren't doing it intentionally but you are putting words in his mouth that he didn't utter, sir.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines bro, damn!!! I swear to god you are soo funny. I think you are a great troll. 😂😂😂
What did I say Jay said that he didnt
Always makes me laugh when people bring up Yates and Mentzer for proof of why HIT works. Those guys looked the way they did because of heavy gear use and amazing genetics. Yates specifically was one of the first to abuse insulin which is why he had so much more mass than his competitors, it had nothing to do with how he trained. Mentzer was also a heavy drug abuser of all kinds which ended up killing him. At the top level of bodybuilding the best “coaches” are just the guys who have the best drug protocols. It’s all about who has the best genetic response to drugs and who can actually blast the most drugs without ending up dead. It’s a sick, sick sport.
So,what would u advice for the natty teen who's looking to build muscle?
first of all dorian didnt even do dropsets and stuff, he only did if he didnt have a partner, and yes dorian was on shit loads of hear just like every other bodybuilder, but if he didnt train like he did he wouldnt have got gains like he did tho? If he didnt train he wouldnt have gotten near as much mass as he did. Ronnie was on shit loads of gear but still dorian got bigger with the way he did it
Hit is OK if you're on meth..like methzner....I use it in a few sets at each workout
I go to the gym as “therapy”,,,,,not looking to get in and get out. I look forward to spending time there,,,getting some volume in.
Why the quotes when it’s obvious you’d rather be in the gym than with family or meaningful hobbies?
And if I can get my "therapy" done in 20 minutes versus two hours then I'll choose the former.
@@NCRonradIf gym isn't a meaningfull hobby to you, t fak are you doing here?
@@JesusChrist2000BCYou nailed that, Jesus. If your goal is to burn out in 3 weeks and make no gains at all
Typical hit fanatic: volume training sucks ever since I started hit I grew 3” taller, and so did my pecker. I have women throwing themselves at me left and right and also my boss gives me a raise every month without even asking
I'm training for powerlifting (usually) thrice a week, and my workouts takes anything from 1hr and 30min to 2hrs and 30min, sometimes a bit longer (depending on my energy levels on any given day). I don't ever feel like I "sacrifice" anything due to spending that time at the gym. I rarely have days where I feel like I don't want to train, or wonder "if it's worth it". It's become so ingrained in me that I just "do it". I'm seeing good progress. So, thank you very much, cultists, but I'll continue to "approach training wrong".
And no, I have not hurt myself training. Am I open to the possibility that it can happen? Yes, certainly. The only times I've really hurt myself have been some elbow and shoulder tendinitis -- and that came from clapping push-ups with too poor bracing, and reckless form on cable lat raises. Both of which used (relatively) light weight. There is no style of training which leaves you immune to injury. Just gotta be careful and tactical about it. I don't go and bench my 1rm every damn session. Use varying degrees of load and be sensible, and you'll be fine. Why this fear-mongering? (Oh yeah, cause cult)
@Shorty Careface, what you’re saying is if you can cut your total gym time in half ( from approximately 6 hours to 3) and still achieve the same results, you are not interested? I’m not on any particular side but having a family and a demanding job, HIT sounds like a good solution for me. Not saying one is right and one is wrong, just one may have the best return on investment. Best to you my friend. Respectfully.
"It's become so ingrained in me that I just "do it"."
Well, that's kinda the thing, you don't think.
@@gabrielpirry 😂
I wouldn't do HIT for powerlifting. Those longer break periods in between lifts are needed. I don't get why Mike Mentzer's methods are seeing a resurgence. We have plenty of exercise scientists now that have done the research and none of them advocate HIT as the best or most effective form of strength training. This guy is trying to make money off of people.
@@TheDrew718you cannot gain the same results from training 3 hours that you can from training 6 hours. Any experienced lifter knows this from personal experience. Yes you can gain more from cutting from 12 hours to 6 hours but 6 hours a week is close to being a minimum for advanced lifters to still progress consistently at the gym (about 1.5h 4x a week isn't too much). For maintaining you need a lot less than that. Also if you are only for progress in a single body part (maybe just pecs for example) and you don't care about the rest then it's also possible to go less than 6 hours and still improve.
To be fair, DY did say he injured himself while in a caloric deficit preparing for a show, and it was completely avoidable. He was after all pioneering something relatively new/novel to bodybuilding.
I started HIT this month via an old(2004) book by Ellington Darden. I am really liking the change of pace and progress I am seeing. During the past 2 weeks I have consumed an insane amount of HIT content. I had not come across Jay Vincent but I see a lot of characteristics from the interviews I watched from Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer. Not sure if that is intentional or coincidence. I have a feeling it is intentional. Would be curious to go back and see if Jay's style of presentation has always been this absolute. Also notice similar verbiage which make it feel almost parroted instead of owned.
It is understandable that many of the HIT followers are zealots. You almost have to be in order to follow something that is so fringe.
I like it too. I think if you use the 12-20 sets standard, and if I use 12 and I don't get results, then do I go to 11 or 13 sets? So I had a layoff and started at one set per exercise two exercises per muscle group. This has worked pretty well for me, I do incorporate drop sets though. If I stop getting results then I will add a rest day or add an extra set. I find the notion that this will work for everyone ridiculous. Everyone should do what works for them.
I have done extremely well with HIT although I have a slightly different style than Mentzer. I do Chest/shoulders, rest, back/rear delts, rest, arms, rest, legs, rest and repeat. I do usually around 3-4 sets per muscle group except for quads I only do 1 for quads so I’m ready to go by next leg day otherwise I’d be sore for a week and a half. But I’ve gained 40lbs with losing fat (not very much fat loss but a noticeable amount to me) in a year and a couple months. I’ve been accused of using steroids by virtually everyone close to me 😂. But I think everyone has a different response to training, so you have to find what works for you. I think your response to training has a huge amount to do with your muscle fiber composition. I think hit style training works very well for people who are made up of more fast twitch muscle fibers, I’m 19 and used to run track in high school doing the 100m maybe that’s a dumb conclusion but Jusy a thought I’ve had
I had two upper body workouts but since i do 1 set till failure i have more time and combine the workouts into one. 3 days rest instead of 2. Sometimes 4 depending how hard i performed. So thats 2 times a week upperbody and 2 times a week legday and it boosted my growth even more. Im very happy with the results.
HIT is marketed as the only possible way to train, when really it’s just one of many possible ways to train.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines as the basis of you workouts, yes. If all you’re doing is HIT, you’re leaving gains on the table. If you’re on vacation or in school and you have limited time to train, it’s a good option imo. Other than that, higher volumes and frequency is superior.
Another typical generic strawman BS argument that has no substance. Please respond with reasons as to how the logic of HIT is unsound and list another method that would be superior. Can you attain gains with high volume, yes, but that is not the point. Its akin to losing weight by starvation. You can get skinny by not eating but that is not superior to eating a well balance calorie restricted diet. Unless you like spending hours on end at the gym to give yourself the PSYCHOLOGICAL feeling of accomplishment there is no reason for it when similar or superior gains can be achieved with HIT.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Stop looking for idols mate. The methods are many, the principles are few. Methods always change, principles never do. People always fear what they don't understand.
"Dorian Yates did it."
1: You ain't Yates.
2: You don't have a criminally insane *Brummie* screaming in your ear.
True. Also, if HIT is best because it worked for Yates, volume is also the best because it worked for Arnold. Wait...
I need some guidance. If one set to failure can give almost same results as traditional 3sets per exercise. Isn’t it one set better because it saves time?
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines are you mentally challenged bro? One quick google search will tell you exactly what it does to all your muscle fibers
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines it has. It’s literally gotten me bigger these last two weeks of using it
I appreciate the thoughts, information, humor, and intelligence. Thanks, AB
Old video so doubt this get seen. But Dorian did a lot of volume. He would sometimes do a set of 12 at a 3 rir then a 10 at like a 2 rir then a set of 6-8 with a -2 rir haha
Really good points. Ive listened to Mentzer's audio clips, and he talks about how his methods are not for weight lifting or powerlifting competitors and especially for anything related to cardio.
Exactly, I've never heard anyone say that HIT was the best approach for all scenarios. Bromley is strawmanning pretty hard.
Jay Vincent, who this video is about, thinks that one set to failure on machines trains the cardiovascular system as well as any form of cardio, and he also thinks hit is superior for developing muscular strength. He gets this from Drew Bayle and Doug McGruff etc.
14:50 I agree with you in most of the video but I feel like he’s at least half right here. Yes at the top level everyone is sauced but he is right that people who are sauced can handle more volume, because their recovery is literally superhuman.
I tried H.I.T. training for a month or so years ago. Was great moving a little bit heavier weight on exercises for a single set, but when I switched back to slightly more volume I noticed my work capacity actually decreased.
That doesn’t really answer whether it builds the same amount of muscle though. Obviously, if you were doing 12-20 sets per muscle and then dropped to 2-4 max effort sets per week per muscle group then your work capacity is going to go down. If they’re both building the same amount of muscle though, then I guess it depends on your goal. My goal in going to the gym isn’t just to do a lot of work. My goal is to build more muscle. Maybe work capacity contributes to that, but if you did 1 month of HIT and the only thing you discovered was that your work capacity diminished then I hope your primary goal is simply work capacity without regard to whether it’s actually building muscle. Because it doesn’t sound like you really discovered anything beyond that.
@@joachimjustinmorgan4851 so are u an advocator of HIT?
@@binchili I exclusively do HIT now because of time and preference. I don’t judge my results based on how much work I can do though. I base it on muscle and strength gains. I’ve done my best with moderate volume (6-10 sets / week) and intensity that took each lift within 1-3 reps of failure. My current results on HIT are not quite as good, but not bad either. I’m also older now though (I’m 41), and I have different life circumstances, so it could be that I would have gotten better results doing HIT previously when I was younger and had a less demanding lifestyle.
@@joachimjustinmorgan4851 first of all thank u for the reply,second,did u do 6/10 sets max for each body part?when doing HIT i suppose or was it a regular Routine?
HIT works well for me very well, but I swap out routines every to higher volume lower intensity every 3 weeks. But I always go to failure on any set. I will add negative reps if I feel I didn't get enough out of that failure, sometime holding and really slowly releasing the last contraction.
Dorian Yates also ran boatloads of gear. People massively underestimate how much high doses of steroids change the rules of physiology. We have studies showing that guys who ran 600mg of testosterone built more muscle doing no training than natural guys who trained intensely. 600mg would be considered a beginner cycle, most bodybuilders are running 5 grams+ of gear. These guys would be massive no matter what the hell they do. These drugs were literally created to build muscle on people with muscle wasting diseases in the complete absence of food or training.
This is very common in bodybuilding. Bodybuilders use a ton of drugs and then attribute their results to their training or diet instead of the gram of tren they are injecting per week.
compared to modern bodybuilders dorian didnt even use that much
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines I rather believe the words of Dorian than yours mate
Lol he was a pioneer when it came to hgh in bodybuilding “low dose” my arse
I really hate this notion that people only get huge by taking gear. There are tons of people who take gear, even boat loads of gear, and are barely above DYEL status. Yes obviously Dorian was enhanced, but the reason he built so much muscle was not just this, but also he emphasized strict form and progressive overload. Those are two things that have been scientifically proven to maximize muscular tension and drive hypertrophy. I think any program where progressive overload and technique are emphasized (whether that’s high intensity or high volume or somewhere in the middle) is bound to produce results.
Would be interesting for you to interview Dorian and tell him your ideas.
Ive listened to some Mike mentzer stuff and I have to say I did feel super cult like, especially reading the comments.
The thing that high intensity bros do have is effort, a lot of people suck at putting effort into their sets.
Join us bro. The price of entry is one (1) singular set. Join us and live in intensity for eternity.
If you do more than one set every 14 days you’re going to overtrain bro
@@coppertopp2268 this i hate lol, it is just obviously untrue but some MFs believe
It's great since now I spend way less time in the gym, but that leftover time is just devoted to watching old Mentzer videos and flaunting my new training style over others.
Seriously though, after stalling and feeling mentally unfocused, HIT has reinvigorated my training and I will keep going until it doesn't do it for me anymore.
New favorite lifting channel. Great stuff man.
I can tell you why people don't use HIT w/ attention to tempo: *because it's incredibly challenging & tedious & sucks much of the fun out of training. + you have to reduce the weight.*
People don't want the tedium of lifting a modest weight slowly & counting cadence, so there aren't many people that have earnestly tried it for any period of time for the empirical evidence to exist to demonstrate the efficacy of HIT/lifting to a tempo.
I started doing HIT 4 weeks ago. Sometimes I just want to throw that weight up like I used to but then I am reminded that I never got so quick gains doing it the old way like I am now with HIT. It is painful but man once I am done I feel spent and like I really worked out unlike before.
14:35 I've been concerned about how much energy I waste pyramiding up to max weight. And now I'm older, joint wear and tear. I've tried o.s.t.f a few times. I prefere the technique if my head is in the game. But a lot of the time with having an active job, I struggle to create the intensity needed. I also seem to suffer less overtraining using high intensity. Not sure if I gain less or more because I don't track my performance due to being so active at work.
I trained for 8-10 years using HIT style early on in my training. Probably about 4 years after started lifting. Made some good initial gains. I believe that novices could benefit from a short bout of HIT training because it is a very different stimulus and can have benefit for those who do junk volume/mindless high set pump work. It also trains you to realize your limits and push them-which most novices are not used to as well. Most beginners feel like a 10 rep set at rpe 8 is actually rpe 10. If you build your mindset to push hard you may realize that you could actually push your average set 5 reps higher. This obviously provides a strong acute stimulus and can lead to strength or hypertrophy gains in the short term. Doing 'true' HIT style for prolonged periods of time can lead to EXTREME burnout, much like some crossfit athletes. I was able to push myself to a point where I almost needed to go to the hospital once or twice. A couple weeks of training like this consecutively you will see that that 10 rep squat or leg press set will not only go down to like 7 reps but it will feel HORRIBLE. Another downside is after any initial gains of increasing strength or rep capacity your muscles don't have the same kind of thickness and glycogen capacity that comes from performing higher volume. You get definition yes but you will end up looking like say, Kinobody. I have been training for 25 years and after HIT I have done both more frequency AND more volume to an extent to keep making gains. The bigger the strength base the more your work capacity increases and ability to handle doing more work. This is of course also related to sleep, job, lifestyle habits but to a point you will have to keep building the 'engine' to eek out more horsepower. Besides Mentzer and Dorian I can't say I have ever seen a natural lifter who has an impressive physique or strength levels as a result of dedicated years of HIT training.
That is completely the opposite of the truth lol. The bigger and stronger you get the more fatigue you generate with every set.
@@Youngster543210 maybe..still not as much CNS fatigue as an absolute failure set regardless of weight.
Mentzer and Dorian were far from natural lol.
Mike and Dorian did A LOT MORE than one set. Its a gimmick that methead Mike was trying to sell. Imagine one set for legs or one set for back lol.. a lot of people who were around Mike have seen him training very different to what he preached. No professional or serious Bodybuilder trains H.I.T. PERIOD
Pretty sure Mentzer meatriders in the comments didn't even watch the video.
Thanks Brom. I think the best way to summarise: anybody who says “this is the only way” - irrespective of intensity versus volume they are touting - then run away. Each can have their own place depending on the person, your lifestyle, your athletic goals and some will be better and some will be suboptimal for your current goals (e.g., HIT misses the technique practice is that so needed for powerlifting). I would suggest people try to HIT (warm up sets than one working set to failure with forced reps, rest pause, drop sets etc) for a cycle every now and then as it helps people calibrate their RPE/RIR. I think too many people stop and guess “that was an RPE 8/RIR 2” but in reality it was probably a 5. I tend to go between Sheiko and HIT, depending on what’s going on in my life. HIT cycles allow for me to keep the muscles active while giving my joints a rest. Anyway, thanks once again for your very informative videos. I really love them.
I would just like to say us Mentzer disciples do not only do 1set. It’s more like 4-6 sets for smaller muscle groups and 8-12 for larger. Ideology and philosophy > literal Program (especially later in life program, in contrast the program he ran when he was competing was considered middle of the road volume by todays standards) And the shit works. Look at Jeff Alberts, Ben Howard, AJ Morris, Mitch Jarvis, Mr.America Heart, plus a whole new wave of kids on tiktok. Everything works that’s the beauty of training and the sport. Do what you love and stick with it for a long time. Peace, love and Iron.
In the end of the day, sticking with lifting + genetics is what gets most of the results, much more important than training style. I like high intensity stuff myself but a lot of adepts really sound like zealots.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines bro you’re in almost every comment thread. Did the hit training style hurt you ?
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines how big are you right now?
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines nice
@@oldskoolbodybuildingroutin7178😂😂😂😂
You MUST let go of the simple, childlike notion that “more” is better. When in actuality “harder“ is better.
Actually, the idea of 'better' is simple and childlike. These are all independant stressors that will give different results depending on the individual, what they are conditioned to and how they apply them. If you were going for 'nuanced', you missed the goddamn mark.
Doing more is harder
@@AlexanderBromley it’s a direct quote from Mentzer himself. You should dive deeper into his content sometime. It seems like you don’t have a complete understanding on his training concepts. Lots of replies of other people backing HIT in the comments on your video. Still you’re right that “BETTER” is subjective, and Mike specifically refers to bodybuilding when it comes to the application of HIT.
@@JacobRothschildMusic 1.) I don't care, it's still a painfully stupid quote. 2.) didn't say it can't work or doesn't, it's the overt lying about the nature of training from people without the experience to make these claims I take issue with, 3.) HIT is not complex, it can be explained on a cocktail napkin, otherwise it wouldn't have the following of this bunch of geniuses.
Can you tell me what makes Mentzer such an important authority on training?
It would be cool if you interviewed Doug Mcguff to see this style of training with a more scientific view
At around 15:30 you talk about how gear is held up as allowing being to recover from more allowing for more volume and causing each dose to result in more gains so not much needs to be done to see results. I don't see this as a contradiction, just two ends of the same spectrum. To use the RP terminology, gear increases the max adaptive volume and max recoverable volume through increased recovery in addition to a decreased minimum effective volume through an amplified stimulus. A similar effect happens when anyone enters a caloric surplus.
I noticed this too, glad I wasn't the only one.
One set to failure to rule them all.
One SET to find them, One SET to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.’
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Dorian the only Mr O that did the HIT style training. Everyone else did higher volumes.
Nope. He never did hit. Next!
Btw you attack the guy for being wrong. Most of the latter part of the video is insults like saying he is a charlatan and not intelligent. The guy has videos going through research and breaking it down.
Since you claim he nitpicks and that the research you defend is the right one.
Why don't you invite him over for a discussion?
I feel like it's a great way to see both explaining their ideas and showing their evidence.
there's also another guy named Drew Baye. You should challenge him as well.
Oh he has videos breaking down research?? WELL HE MUST BE THE ONLY ONE!!
Its not "some" of the research and its not "my" research. Its literally every textbook, every successful coach, every pro athlete, every World Superpower who has recruited and trained Olympic athletes. The foundation of exercise science as an academic field doesn't recognize this as a superior method for size and strength and this jack-off is Cherry picking studies and using it to say its the only way. Thats dumb Ivan. Its really dumb and it makes you an unreasonable person and a charlatan.
Thats not an insult, its an evidence based value judgment.
JFC you guys are worse than flat earthers.
@@AlexanderBromley Alex, challenge him to a debate to prove your point. I guarantee you he won't back down.
Mr. Bromley, I just watched this video. I also have watched a few of Jay's videos. John Hart as well. He was Natural Mr. Universe back in the day.
I listen to your videos. I listen to Dave Tate, Jim Wendler, Juggernaut, Mark Rippetoe, etc...
I am 56. I've been lifting since I was 15. I'd like to think I have seen it all and heard it all.
My conclusion is this. It all works if you're consistent. I have never found one program to be particularly better than another.
However, what I have found is the psychology changes with programs.
In the end, pick a program that both challenges you, and you don't hate. Hating or disliking a program is the death knell to success.
On one set to failure. It works. But training to absolute failure on every set is tough, and most can't do it. So clearly, it isn't the best program because there is no best program. Everyone is different. Especially mentally.
Good video!